Direct Brokering V's Access [Archive]

Barrel Scraper

15-09-2004, 11:33 AM

Have to agree whatsup.
I checked out all the online brokers b4 signing up with AB about 4 yrs ago. They had the best GUI by far and during my time with them it was updated to an even better interface.

Having been forced to find a new online broker I again checked out the online offerings of, so far NAB, ASB and DB - my choice will be for ASB. Though really it is just the best of a bad bunch - unfortunately for them AB has set a high benchmark - shame ABs standard of fidelity wrt client funds was not as high.

Risk

15-09-2004, 11:36 AM

although I liked the Access site better than Direct, I dont think Access was perfect.

The navigation tabs used to take ages to load and sometimes the top frame would refresh for no apparent reason.
some of the pages were too wide, so you had to scroll sideways to see them. etc

I think what Direct should do is analyse what traders want, design a quick and easy to use user interface, and then give us a 2004 version of the Access site :-)

Barrel Scraper

15-09-2004, 11:37 AM

oh and by the way..

Can someone please point out where I gave authority for my email address and my username/password for my brokerage to be supplied to third parties ?

thereslifeafter87

15-09-2004, 12:27 PM

I like Direct's site. I find it easy to use, and relatively fast. Direct's staff are also friendly and helpful if you ever have a question that needs answering.

$imon

15-09-2004, 02:50 PM

ASB's charts are absolute bollocks! Other than that the site is pretty good. Haven't used the AB site in years to compare though.

blackcap

15-09-2004, 03:32 PM

quote:Originally posted by Barrel Scraper

oh and by the way..

Can someone please point out where I gave authority for my email address and my username/password for my brokerage to be supplied to third parties ?

HI Barrel Scraper,

I sorta think its like when ANZ purchased the National Bank. No authority but they now have all my details too.

ari

15-09-2004, 03:39 PM

quote:I like Direct's site. I find it easy to use, and relatively fast. Direct's staff are also friendly and helpful if you ever have a question that needs answering.

You got shares in Direct???Their sites a 'crock of s h i t'....can't give you 'real time watchlist & portfolio cause facility costs too much to run.
Do they offer any realtime figs. at all???

Benlamnz

15-09-2004, 04:27 PM

Maybe be part of the reson why Access ran into trouble is because they gave us too damn much for 29.50 trades. Have to learn to live with less informative sites from now on. Looks like thats where the market equilibrium for discount broking is.

thereslifeafter87

15-09-2004, 04:31 PM

Im not a day trader, so don't need realtime information all the time.

They do provide close to real time quotes though...

imac_jim

15-09-2004, 05:22 PM

If the website was classed as business assets then Direct would have the AB site as part of its purchase off the liquidators. It would take a while for integration to happen and to make adjustments.

Major von Tempsky

15-09-2004, 10:19 PM

Barrel Scraper, I can see where you are coming from altho for moi personally I'll go with the flow to Direct in this case.
A few years ago I had a temporary life insurance policy which I had bought from my bank and I paid my premiums to the bank. After a few years the bank sold the scheme to some Yankee outfit I had never heard of who then wrote to me saying they had taken over the insurance and by the way they were putting up the premiums.
I felt rather miffed that I was being bought and sold like a cattle beast with not even a vote or consultation and it got my back up. So I wrote to them and told them as much and that I was cancelling the policy since they hadn't bothered to involve the policy holders. So some smarmy guy rang me up so I told him the same. So they had the cheek to then write a letter to my wife telling her my premium was overdue and did she realise that and that it should be paid. So I rubbish binned the letter and they then gave up - Victory at last! A great feeling.
I don't really see why outfits that buy and sell job lots of clients can really expect the clients to be tamely herded unless they make an offer to the clients....

Benlamnz

15-09-2004, 10:25 PM

To be fair Direct did not exavtly treated us with contempt. They immediately opened up the site for AB customers using existing login and passoword, and even manage to email us some brokerage reports as well. Seems quite keen to pick us up and increase the client base. But after Access I ain't gonna trust small brokers anymore. May do a nominal trade to keep the live data since ASB's really is hopeless. Fair trade off for the financial security I am more than happy to pay for though.

GladiatorNZ

16-09-2004, 06:34 AM

The Access website was superb. But as someone noted they probably gave clients too much. They had to pay the NZX/ASX each time clients checked the depth.

Anyway, having looked at Direct's site I am not convinced I will make the move. Its pretty low budget. Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence! So for now I am sending in my application to the ASB.

George

16-09-2004, 07:36 AM

I used to have to trade once every 3 months to get live depth but after going to AOT didn't need it. Noticed that the depth was still available many months after and thought it strange but never gave it much thought - possibly a symptom of their problem.

I guess most here are not daytraders so it doesn’t really matter about instant pricing etc. but if you want to see what a really live site is like go to www.aotonline.com.au and on the middle right of the page click on ‘Click here’. There you’ll find a link ‘View Demo’.
The trading platform will display in its own window except for the live data. Play with it to your hearts content. Try the ‘User’ button at the top and ‘Configure Display’ then say, 6 or 8 frames. The platform will divide from the default 3 to your number. You can then set up quote, depth, account balance, warrant monitor, options, watchlists etc in their own frame then on ‘User’ choose ‘Save’ which will open to your preference each time you log in. Some data may not be available till you join up.
You can also click on each border and manually adjust the frames size to suit. I have a 14 inch monitor with 6 frames set up and sometimes reduce 2 of the frames to almost nothing so I can view more of the other 4.
Also, when you want to trade, a SEPARATE frame pops up with most of the details filled in, you add the volume, check the price you want and send it. You can watch the stock, warrant,option price and send at the instant you want. If you buy at the offer you will see your trade go through instantly and your account balance change also with an email contract that night.
On the warrant monitor you can see the prices change as the head stock moves, and they move at different speeds depending on their description.
I don’t daytrade now (too stressful) but still prefer this platform for the warrants and ease of use.
George, in traders heaven.

whatsup

16-09-2004, 10:35 AM

Is the access site still working , if so for how long?cant get a update on my watch list.

Darchie

16-09-2004, 10:39 AM

quote:Originally posted by whatsup

Is the access site still working , if so for how long?cant get a update on my watch list.

It's iguana that's down at the moment

Gryffyn

16-09-2004, 11:11 AM

blackcap

16-09-2004, 11:43 AM

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

quote:Originally posted by GladiatorNZ

The Access website was superb. But as someone noted they probably gave clients too much. They had to pay the NZX/ASX each time clients checked the depth.

Anyway, having looked at Direct's site I am not convinced I will make the move. Its pretty low budget. Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence! So for now I am sending in my application to the ASB.

Each time? Really? Well, I probably personally contributed to their downfall then :-(

Not impressed that the Direct call account has a bunch of lucrative management fees attached.

Gryffyn, thats a bit harsh. The Dorchester Call account has management fees and Trustee fees, yes, but the rate that is quoted is the net rate you receive. Currently the call rate is 5.3% which is net of all fees. Does anyone actaully know how much it costs to administer such an account and make it avaialable for clients? Its not cheap. Also cant think of a better place to park on call money waiting for share purchases at competitve on call rates. Dont really see any banks offering 5.3% on call for a $3000 balance with no fees.

By the way for all you out there, everytime you click on the depth button, it costs your broker about 3 cents. (NZX charges) . Well that was the amount last I asked. Im not sure its got cheaper but it may have. Dosnt seem like much? You click on 100 depths per day, that is $3 per day per investor.

Ted2

16-09-2004, 11:57 AM

quote:Originally posted by GladiatorNZ

The Access website was superb. But as someone noted they probably gave clients too much. They had to pay the NZX/ASX each time clients checked the depth.

Anyway, having looked at Direct's site I am not convinced I will make the move. Its pretty low budget. Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence! So for now I am sending in my application to the ASB.

Do you really use a broker because their website looks high-budget????? Choosing a broker because of a pretty website seems a little flaky. Substance is more important when it comes to your money surely?
Over the last couple of years on this forum all I've heard is how very very ordinary ASB is. I've personally used Direct for 4-5 years and always had good service, prompt payment etc etc. Website seems very functional to me - if not necessarily pretty!!!! What makes a high-budget website anyway?

(As posted elsewhere though, I have for the moment let the access thing get to me and am nervous about putting a lot of tin into my call account.)

Ted

whatsup

16-09-2004, 12:03 PM

When will the Access site be up and running again? any ideas?

blackcap

16-09-2004, 12:18 PM

[/quote]

Do you really use a broker because their website looks high-budget????? Choosing a broker because of a pretty website seems a little flaky. Substance is more important when it comes to your money surely?
Over the last couple of years on this forum all I've heard is how very very ordinary ASB is. I've personally used Direct for 4-5 years and always had good service, prompt payment etc etc. Website seems very functional to me - if not necessarily pretty!!!! What makes a high-budget website anyway?

(As posted elsewhere though, I have for the moment let the access thing get to me and am nervous about putting a lot of tin into my call account.)

Ted
[/quote]

Great call Ted 2. Thats what needs to be said.

I certainly do not go about picking who I do business with, based on their website. Some of the better companies in this country have ****e websites. Others that are ****e have excellent websites. A website does not a company make.

Darchie

16-09-2004, 12:34 PM

quote:Originally posted by whatsup

When will the Access site be up and running again? any ideas?

Can't say Whatsup - Their email notification just had following:

Due to hardware failure Iguana2 is experiencing an outage.
StockScape currently is being updated.
We are working on a resolution.
We currently do not have an ETA.

Good for the sole sometimes to lose something....often gives us some more appreciation of what we had!!!!

Futurz

16-09-2004, 01:39 PM

quote:Originally posted by blackcap

Do you really use a broker because their website looks high-budget????? Choosing a broker because of a pretty website seems a little flaky. Substance is more important when it comes to your money surely?
Over the last couple of years on this forum all I've heard is how very very ordinary ASB is. I've personally used Direct for 4-5 years and always had good service, prompt payment etc etc. Website seems very functional to me - if not necessarily pretty!!!! What makes a high-budget website anyway?

(As posted elsewhere though, I have for the moment let the access thing get to me and am nervous about putting a lot of tin into my call account.)

Ted
[/quote]

Great call Ted 2. Thats what needs to be said.

I certainly do not go about picking who I do business with, based on their website. Some of the better companies in this country have ****e websites. Others that are ****e have excellent websites. A website does not a company make.

[/quote]

Exactly!!

Does anyone know how much it costs to have a good website...alot of money. A great website...a sh1t load of money:D

What did Access run out of...MONEY!!!

Barrel Scraper

16-09-2004, 02:07 PM

hmmm, and do you know how much it costs to change computer systems 4 times ?

Anyway, Have been forced to use Directs site today and it has more information than I first gave it credt for.
Have to admit that the navigation has got easier with experience also.
Delayed watchlist and only [u]one</u> watchlist is a pain .
Their server might need an upgrade (seems very slow) to compensate for the extra use it must be getting following the collapse of AB.

So far the service I have received from Direct has been more efficient than ASB also

Ted2

16-09-2004, 02:18 PM

quote:Originally posted by Barrel Scraper

hmmm, and do you know how much it costs to change computer systems 4 times ?

Anyway, Have been forced to use Directs site today and it has more information than I first gave it credt for.
Have to admit that the navigation has got easier with experience also.
Delayed watchlist and only [u]one</u> watchlist is a pain .
Their server might need an upgrade (seems very slow) to compensate for the extra use it must be getting following the collapse of AB.

So far the service I have received from Direct has been more efficient than ASB also

You get free depth and live quotes after you make a trade and it stays active for 3 months.
One watchlist takes 40 stocks. Never tried for more.

I'm interested in your comments on speed, as others have made the same comment before. I use DB every day and always find response instantaneous. Nothing has slowed lately. The only way it could be quicker is if it starts reading my mind and taking me to a new page before I click on anything!!!
It may be your own server or connection.

Cheers

Barrel Scraper

16-09-2004, 03:13 PM

Hi Ted2

I can get depth lists now! I hope you are not suggesting I might be getting a bill in the email ?[:0]

Am pretty sure it is not my connection, however to be fair on Direct there are no doubt a number of nodes between them and I that could be causing a delay.
The lag is intermittent, that is why I put it down to traffic pressure on Directs server.
AB used to lag at times also - but surfing with DB I appear to be hanging a lot more regularly.
It is early days....

Risk

16-09-2004, 06:22 PM

I just noticed that Direct has changed their brokerage rate limits up to $25,000. (although their example page still assumes its $15k limit so its a bit confusing)

I think this is a great move on their part, and they are now competitive with ASB on this front.

I was planning to use Direct as a backup broker, but since they seem to be listening to our requirements, and are giving great service so far, they have just moved onto top spot in my books.

Im sure some web site improvements are in the way ;)

Darchie

16-09-2004, 06:52 PM

quote:Originally posted by Risk

I just noticed that Direct has changed their brokerage rate limits up to $25,000. (although their example page still assumes its $15k limit so its a bit confusing)

but unfortunately their percentage is now 0.1% was 0.05%
suppose one could say an extra $7.50 on a $50k trade

But on reflection ... yes a very good move on their part - agreed

George

16-09-2004, 07:53 PM

If you happen to use margin and want to buy $100,000 of something it's only $30 at AOT but $255 at Direct ($29 + 0.3% of $75,000).
I hope this doesn't mean that AOT are going to go broke like Access???

16-09-2004, 09:25 PM

George You still forget to mention The $200.00 plus per month AOT charge if you don't trade enough in a month. We are not all big Traders. And do you work for AOT, it sounds rather like it.

JBmurc

16-09-2004, 10:22 PM

liked the access site -damm it[}:)]-DB,ASB not for me -holding& trading ASX only -E*trade looks the goods for me

George

17-09-2004, 07:14 AM

Not an employee of them Enigma - not likely living in the South Taranaki.
Just telling folk here about a better system but perhaps I'll keep it to myself - at least I know that someone is taking some notice.
It's a max of about $80 if you don't trade and that's only if you log in at least once in the month. So if you login just to watch the market with no intention of trading that month you will be billed that amount. If you trade say 4 times in the month that's $120 + 80 = $50 per trade but that's for any size. So obviously it favours a frequent trader whether large or small plus there's warrants.
But you have to pay or trade to get DB's data?

17-09-2004, 09:01 AM

George, Tracker says $200 plus for service reducing by number of trades. And if you don't follow market how can you think about trading. That means logging in. Sanford is about the same price as AOT and phadreus says it is better.

George

17-09-2004, 12:24 PM

Enigma
Thanks for the feedback – it’s amazing what you find out if you keep persisting.
Found the notice re that figure, rang AOT and they said $220 is charged for those who access their platform but don’t trade with them at all.
Evidently some are happy to be billed 2 lots of $38.50 per month for using the platform and trading through another broker.
As a trader with AOT you can use the platform as much as you like without trading for only the $79 per month. When asked that there must be similar platforms around for people to use it but trade elsewhere, she said there are, but not as good!!!
May check out Sanford’s site, but can’t see what advantage there is in using two brokers to make trades.
An enlightened George

17-09-2004, 03:42 PM

George from what I hear you still have a lot more to learn about AOT is that the monthly fee drops to $80 per month but only if you make more than 5 trades a month. Some are paying the $220.00 per month for data feeds and using full service brokers for other information and priority orders.

GladiatorNZ

17-09-2004, 04:43 PM

@ Gryffyn

Yes, live depth cost like 4c each time from the NZX and I think 2c from the ASX. That's why Access required you to trade once every 90 days to get access to depth information. Even if you checked depth 200 times on the ASX per trade, that'd still only be $4. But then again looks like they needed every cent.

George

17-09-2004, 07:54 PM

Enigma
I was going to paste this page but it's too long and part relates to options, so I invite you to visit https://www.aotonline.com.au/priv_fees.asp
then tell me I'm still wrong and where - there is no mention of 5 trades or fees DROPPING to $80 (it's actually $77).

Here is part of the page anyway;
"The Software and Data fee comprises:
1. Software Fee
Fixed at $38.50 (inc GST)
2. Data Fee
This is an ASX Royalty charged by the ASX for viewing Live Price Data.

The fee is charged at the rate of 2.53 cents (inc GST) per minute during hours 9:30am to 5:00pm weekdays. This fee is capped at $38.50 (inc GST) per month for live ASX prices, or $49.50 (inc GST) to view both live ASX and Options market prices.
A screen saver is activated after 5 minutes to help clients reduce their Data fee.
No fees are payable if a client elects not to log on to the Integral software during a calendar month.

To reward customer loyalty, AOT Online provides certain fee concessions:

No software fee is charged if 8 or more contract notes are generated for the month.
No software or data fee is charged if 16 or more contract notes generated for the month.

17-09-2004, 09:44 PM

George All I am going on is the charges an australian trader with their top of the line package quoted me for a reasonable broker when they heard about access colapse that I was trading with. we correspond a bit by msn messenger.

marcus_milo

21-09-2004, 08:16 PM

Can someone give me some advice.

I downloaded a copy of the Dorchester Call Account application form from the DB web site, and read the investment statement and have a couple of questions.

It appears that the account is not a fixed interest account, but rather an investment unit trust, meaning that:

a) the interest varies on a daily basis
b) the value of the units can in theory drop below the amount you invest

Secondly the account (Unit Trust) appears to unsecured (there is a statement to this effect in the investment statement).

Given the cunfusion over the status of the Access Trust Accounts I would have thought it was dangerous to be advertising the Dorchester Call Account, in a way that makes it look like a secured, fixed interest, savings Account. But maybe I am wrong.

Anyone shed any light for me on this.

Thanks.

blackcap

21-09-2004, 08:31 PM

quote:Originally posted by marcus_milo

Can someone give me some advice.

I downloaded a copy of the Dorchester Call Account application form from the DB web site, and read the investment statement and have a couple of questions.

It appears that the account is not a fixed interest account, but rather an investment unit trust, meaning that:

a) the interest varies on a daily basis
b) the value of the units can in theory drop below the amount you invest

Secondly the account (Unit Trust) appears to unsecured (there is a statement to this effect in the investment statement).

Given the cunfusion over the status of the Access Trust Accounts I would have thought it was dangerous to be advertising the Dorchester Call Account, in a way that makes it look like a secured, fixed interest, savings Account. But maybe I am wrong.

Anyone shed any light for me on this.

Thanks.

Marcus Milo, you are sortof right and sorta wrong.

The call account is in fact a Group Investment Fund, which is a form of unit trust. Yes the interest rate can change daily, (as do banks interest rates). However I do not see how your one unit cannot equate one dollar. One advantage of the Dorchester call account is that it may deposit no more than 30% with any one bank, so in effect your money is diversified across banks making it a safer investment than having your money in one bank. All deposits are short term, up to a maximum of 90 days (I think) which is provided for in the trust deed. All in all a pretty good product, no additional adminsitrative fees (apart from those mentioned in the investment statement), and a competitive interest rate.