ASB Securities: Market Manipulation.

[bongo66]

Selling a very small number of shares @ market yesterday via ASB i was told on the phone that, "ill check to see if we can do that" As things transpired she wouldnt let me sell at market, telling me; "we dont want to do that as that would drop the SP too much-i wanted to get rid of shares at the bidders price 4 cents below the last trade.

Whats be happening here and should I inform the NZX? There was a willing buyer at a market price but I was not allowed to sell at that price.

Your input would be gratefully accepted.

B:)

[Paper Tiger]

quote:
Client Service Agreement Terms and Conditions

15.b) refuse to execute an order where we consider that executing the order is likely to create a false or misleading market for, or price / yield of the relevant Security, and


I think they have themselves covered.

[Scooter]

Bongo66, would love to know what stock it was. There is no way ASB should be doing that. If you are willing to sell down the market, so be it. It would more than likely bounce back afterwards.

It sounds like they have an interest in the stock either company wise, or personal wise with the person you spoke to.

All to fishy.

[blackcap]

Depends what stock it was bongo.

Sometimes FASTER does not even allow sales or purchases to proceed if too far away from the last market price.

But if you wanted to sell and it wasnt too illiquid a stock I cannot see why ASB refused your request.

[whiteheron]

bongo66

A very unusual situation I would say

If you are a genuine seller and want to quit your shares to the highest bidder at a bit less than what market has been this would seem perfectly in order to me
I frequently see trades go through that seem to indicate this sort of thing

You could take it up with the NZX but dont hold your breath if you do --- I have never had a meaningful response from them on anything
I think they are a one man band as nobody else but Weldon seems to have any knowledge or authority on anything (just my personal observations )

[lambton]

quote:Originally posted by bongo66

Selling a very small number of shares @ market yesterday via ASB i was told on the phone that, "ill check to see if we can do that" As things transpired she wouldnt let me sell at market, telling me; "we dont want to do that as that would drop the SP too much-i wanted to get rid of shares at the bidders price 4 cents below the last trade.

Whats be happening here and should I inform the NZX? There was a willing buyer at a market price but I was not allowed to sell at that price.

Your input would be gratefully accepted.

B:)


Hi Bongo

The NZX is a private club. I trade many $ in a year but never, never get anywhere close to the outer most line of the circle. We are outsiders and always will be under present rules. While I agree we should have an open market there is no way the inner circle are going to let us rip. That would destroy the inner circles ability to manipulate the scene. For example buyers / sellers don't have to show there hand by being in the queque but can pounce from the shadows at will if connected to a traders screen. The buy / sell queque system is being grossly manipulated also. With certain shares it is obvious
that if you need to sell you get 1 cents or whatever below. if you want to buy you must pay ahead of the queque - they're always there often with the ubiquitous "u" beside the order. To start I would look at GPG, APT & KID. Enjoy the hunt there are many others.
Not holding my breath that NZX will be bothered to look.

[whiteheron]

lambton

Do I take it that you mean that there are actually orders taking their place in the queue that are not showing up on the official queue listings ?
If this is the case it is nothing short of scandelous / deceptive / manipulative / disgusting / unfair / anti competitive / self serving , just to name a few comments
It should simply not happen

I understood that there was supposed to be full disclosure and a level playing field , perhaps one has to be naive to accept such things

You refer to the ubiquitous "u" beside orders
I am not aware that I have noticed this ( I use ASB Securities depth tables )
Perhaps you can expand

Thanks

[barney]

Could be a bit embarrassing if they refused to sell on your behalf and by coincidence the company released some bad news and down goes the shareprice.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by whiteheron

You refer to the ubiquitous "u" beside orders
I am not aware that I have noticed this ( I use ASB Securities depth tables )
Perhaps you can expand

Thanks


A "u" means that there is a buyer/seller of an UNDISCLOSED quantity at the said price. Usually, I only see a "u" around the big cap shares that the Insto's trade. From memory, I think the value has to be over $100k to be able to have it as a "u".


Bongo, I hope you do get to the real reason why, and please let us know if you do...

[rmbbrave]

quote:Originally posted by bongo66

Selling a very small number of shares @ market yesterday via ASB i was told on the phone that, "ill check to see if we can do that" As things transpired she wouldnt let me sell at market, telling me; "we dont want to do that as that would drop the SP too much-i wanted to get rid of shares at the bidders price 4 cents below the last trade.

Whats be happening here and should I inform the NZX? There was a willing buyer at a market price but I was not allowed to sell at that price.

Your input would be gratefully accepted.

B:)


Why are you trading over the phone?

Trade on the internet and you can name your own price. (At least I presume you can. The computer may not take bids to far away from the last trade, I don't know, I've never tried it)

Why did you want to sell the shares so far below the last price?

Did you have a cunning plan of you own?

[whiteheron]

Thanks Steve

I hardly ever trade in the big caps so this probably accounts for why I have not come across it

The institutions obviously have it over us small folks

So much for the level playing field !

[lucky]

rmbbrave...that wont work either. i tried selling $1 above the last price once because there were no other sellers in the market for the particular stock...it was not accepted.

[rmbbrave]

quote:Originally posted by lucky

rmbbrave...that wont work either. i tried selling $1 above the last price once because there were no other sellers in the market for the particular stock...it was not accepted.


Thanks lucky. Now I know. I suppose it is necessary for the computer to refuse outrageous bids as it is probably a mistake of the punters.

[lambton]

quote:Originally posted by whiteheron

lambton

Do I take it that you mean that there are actually orders taking their place in the queue that are not showing up on the official queue listings ?
If this is the case it is nothing short of scandelous / deceptive / manipulative / disgusting / unfair / anti competitive / self serving , just to name a few comments
It should simply not happen

I understood that there was supposed to be full disclosure and a level playing field , perhaps one has to be naive to accept such things

You refer to the ubiquitous "u" beside orders
I am not aware that I have noticed this ( I use ASB Securities depth tables )
Perhaps you can expand

Thanks



Yep - that's what I'm saying. Dammed if I know how to stop this practice. I guess the NZX would have to have a rule that ensured an order received by a member of NZX must "immediately" be placed on the board. Or we go back to the pit. maybe that was more transparent. Don't know wasn't there.
The "u" been explained.

[Bling_Bling]

I have not heard of anything like this before. If that is that case, then there wont be a share market crash.

[lambton]

quote:Originally posted by Bling_Bling

I have not heard of anything like this before. If that is that case, then there wont be a share market crash.


Bling Bling

Do you mean "there wont be a share market to crash?

or you just haven't noticed that the NZX sand pit aint really for the plebs?

[Sky Tower]

quote:Originally posted by Scooter

Bongo66, would love to know what stock it was. There is no way ASB should be doing that. If you are willing to sell down the market, so be it.

Time for a new online broker perhaps? There are two other online broking services available: Direct Broking and The National Bank

Work for NBNZ. Trying to remain impartial by mentioning DB as well

[Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by Sky Tower


quote:Originally posted by Scooter

Bongo66, would love to know what stock it was. There is no way ASB should be doing that. If you are willing to sell down the market, so be it.

Time for a new online broker perhaps? There are two other online broking services available: Direct Broking and The National Bank


The latter of which you...

[Cooper]

Don't get me wrong Sky Tower, I use the National Bank and have nothing bad to say about it, but if you're going to consistently push their finer points you should let people know who employs you. Nothing wrong with salesmanship, but you're hardly impartial, and should at least disclose this.

[Sky Tower]

Cooper
I usually do put that - as you will have seen. After 230 odd posts I would have thought most people would know by now
Im between a rock and a hard place. I enjoy posting on 'sharetrader' but my posting are always in a personal capacity ie im my personal time using my personal computer. I can only talk about about my personal experiences with the site.
If I put as you suggest then it sounds like im posting as a representative which Im not.
Then if I dont put it then Im accused of...

The solution would be not to post at all - but its something I enjoy.

The point is Cooper there are plenty of brokers, employees of brokers, fund managers etc who post regularly on this site, with particular slants on things, who never disclose their interest.

Naturally I know who they are but the average poster doesn't

Work for NBNZ

[bull....]

Ive had this problem with direct broking as well had a parcel to sell at market wasnt enough on the bid to satisfy my sell so would have caused the sell to go to the next bid they wouldnt accept the order because they said it was to far from the market hello the difference would have been 1c to sell the whole lot anyway this was the last time I used them.

[Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by Sky Tower

Cooper
I usually do put that - as you will have seen.
Im between a rock and a hard place. I enjoy posting on 'sharetrader' but my posting are always in a personal capacity
If I put as you suggest then it sounds like im posting as a representative which Im not.
Then if I dont put it then Im accussed of...

The solution would be not to post at all - but its something I enjoy

The point is Cooper there are plenty of brokers, employees of brokers, fund managers etc who post regularly on this site, with particular slants on things, who never disclose there interest.

Naturally I know who they are but the average poster doesn't




Fair enough. As I have said I have no such dilemma and still have nothing bad to say about the service in question (either the banking arm or the sharetrading part, so it's not like you're misrepresenting them IMHO.
I honestly never thought we'd have brokers on here who would not disclose this though (apart from one or two obvious ones who might as well come right out and say it).

[Sky Tower]

there are a few employees/management of fund managers who post on this website.

Work for NBNZ.

[blackcap]

quote:Originally posted by Sky Tower

there are a few employees/management of fund managers who post on this website.


Quite a few brokers too......

But then again brokers are sometimes caught between a rock and a hard place too. The NZX has rules for market execution and one of them is for brokers not to distort the market too much. Therefore ASB may have declined bongos original order.

[duncan macgregor]

SKY TOWER, post all you like, let us know your opinions but cover your butt with a disclosure at the end. If you think a person is coming from a position broadcast it, then we all know. Most of the people in that game are looked on as silly woops that know nothing about anything that concerns real life so go for it. macdunk

[whiteheron]

I bet that every brokerage house in the country has an unidentified poster or two on ShareTrader and they are sure to be pushing some barrow or other

Some posts are very obviously from these brokerage houses and probably should be divulged , but very few ever are

Come on folks own up , but I bet you dont ! prefering to hide behind the anonymity of a non de plume

I bet this post will not elicit any responses other than from those who have already divulged a connection ; come on prove me wrong , I am waiting

[Cooper]

In that regard Sky Tower should be congratulated for being up front from the beginning.

[lambton]

quote:Originally posted by Cooper

In that regard Sky Tower should be congratulated for being up front from the beginning.


Agree Coop. Would love to see some Just Beware bods disclose themselves on this site. Not holding my breath as all their employees have such a high pass mark in NZX's "non disclosure 101". [^]

[limegreen]

Maybe a good compromise for Sky Tower would be to have "employee of XX, posting in personal capacity" on their profile, but also put an explicit disclosure on especially related posts. There has also been an NBNZ person on here in a semi-official capacity. Very impressive -- feedback given lead to actual change in their site!

[whiteheron]

bull

I apply the same principle to business associations as I apply to shareholdings

If I am not satisfied with how things are going or if I am being dicked around I simply move on

Unfortunately there are a few situations where this is not possible , at least in the short term , so some things we just seem to have to put up with

[Capitalist]

I disagree that one should have to disclose anything. The beauty of this type of forum is the anonymity. Who cares? I value the broker's opinions and the site would be poorer if they didn't post. Anyone who takes such talk as gospel is too stupid to be in the markets.

Bejus - no-one is splitting atoms here. It's a bit self-absorbed to think YOUR opinion is so good you had better add a disclaimer to it.

[Liberty]

It's a bit like on talkback when you say Andrew Mehrtens is the best first-five in the country - the immediate refrain is "Where are you calling from?" - as if calling from Canterbury would automatically qualify or disqualify your opinion.

We seem to be very poor at accepting peoples' opinions at face value rather than colouring them with our perspective on what their bias might be.

[lambton]

quote:Originally posted by Capitalist

I disagree that one should have to disclose anything. The beauty of this type of forum is the anonymity. Who cares? I value the broker's opinions and the site would be poorer if they didn't post. Anyone who takes such talk as gospel is too stupid to be in the markets.

Bejus - no-one is splitting atoms here. It's a bit self-absorbed to think YOUR opinion is so good you had better add a disclaimer to it.


Cap in hand. We're off track here. The original post was the non disclosure / rigging of the quotes system. Not who you are as a poster / poser. Agree who give a toss whether you are rampimg / pushing own barrow / dealing dope or whatever. Lookers beware.
But interesting to see this posting gaining a little traction. Lots of lookers and bet NZX is one of em.[^]

[whiteheron]

lambton

Being watched by BIG BROTHER eh

Im not sure if we should be pleased to be sufficiently important to get the attention or whether we should be afraid of what might happen to us , still this is a democracy isnt it !

[rmbbrave]

Has anyone read ASB Securities trading rules?
Here is a small sample...

The first rule seems to be the one that held up Bongo's trade.



Sell orders may not be accepted if:


* Your specified price is too far away from the current market price.

* The security has been suspended/halted or delisted.

* The Common Shareholder or standard holder number supplied is invalid.

* The FIN supplied is invalid.

* The stock is owned by a person(s) other than the account holder.

* There are insufficient units available for settlement in either your holding with the relevant Registry Office for NZX listed securities or in your CHESS holdings sponsored by ASB Securities/Commonwealth Securities.

* The stock is sponsored in CHESS by a broker other than ASB Securities/Commonwealth Securities.

[lambton]

quote:Originally posted by whiteheron

lambton

Being watched by BIG BROTHER eh

Im not sure if we should be pleased to be sufficiently important to get the attention or whether we should be afraid of what might happen to us , still this is a democracy isnt it !


Yep we probably are which in itself can be a good thing because it provides an oportunity to misinform / present opinion / lay false trails etc etc to achieve change maybe)in Big Brothers attitude towards a particular carry on.
It has been a hobby horse of mine for a long time to see a more inclusive and open Stock Exchange. [^]

[Scooter]

quote:Originally posted by rmbbrave

Has anyone read ASB Securities trading rules?
Here is a small sample...

The first rule seems to be the one that held up Bongo's trade.



Sell orders may not be accepted if:


* Your specified price is too far away from the current market price.

* The security has been suspended/halted or delisted.




Interpretation is important here. In the case of Bongo66 he wanted to drop the price 4 cents on a small number of shares. Depending on the company this might be a small or large movement. So Bongo66 what company is it?

[lambton]

quote:Originally posted by Scooter


quote:Originally posted by rmbbrave

Has anyone read ASB Securities trading rules?
Here is a small sample...

The first rule seems to be the one that held up Bongo's trade.



Sell orders may not be accepted if:


* Your specified price is too far away from the current market price.

* The security has been suspended/halted or delisted.




Interpretation is important here. In the case of Bongo66 he wanted to drop the price 4 cents on a small number of shares. Depending on the company this might be a small or large movement. So Bongo66 what company is it?



Yes but in a free market Bongo is the price. If someone is dumb enough to sell at below market (what ever below "market" is because it sounds to me NZX members rules in this regard are manipulating to ensure a smoother ride for all - or is it for them?) A nice earner for the members of NZX hiding behind the guise of socialist lets protect the little investor fluffy wuffies, perhaps.

[blackcap]

quote:Originally posted by lambton


quote:Originally posted by Scooter


quote:Originally posted by rmbbrave

Has anyone read ASB Securities trading rules?
Here is a small sample...

The first rule seems to be the one that held up Bongo's trade.



Sell orders may not be accepted if:


* Your specified price is too far away from the current market price.

* The security has been suspended/halted or delisted.




Interpretation is important here. In the case of Bongo66 he wanted to drop the price 4 cents on a small number of shares. Depending on the company this might be a small or large movement. So Bongo66 what company is it?



Yes but in a free market Bongo is the price. If someone is dumb enough to sell at below market (what ever below "market" is because it sounds to me NZX members rules in this regard are manipulating to ensure a smoother ride for all - or is it for them?) A nice earner for the members of NZX hiding behind the guise of socialist lets protect the little investor fluffy wuffies, perhaps.


Lambton mate, if you dont like the market why not set up an alternative yourself or avoid playing in this one.

I really do think the current system is a good one and who cares if orders are not being disclosed. I as a client with a large order would not want my broker chucking the whole lot on the market for anyone to see. That would compromise my order. I think the current setup is pretty good.

[lambton]

quote:Originally posted by blackcap


quote:Originally posted by lambton


quote:Originally posted by Scooter


quote:Originally posted by rmbbrave

Has anyone read ASB Securities trading rules?
Here is a small sample...

The first rule seems to be the one that held up Bongo's trade.



Sell orders may not be accepted if:


* Your specified price is too far away from the current market price.

* The security has been suspended/halted or delisted.




Interpretation is important here. In the case of Bongo66 he wanted to drop the price 4 cents on a small number of shares. Depending on the company this might be a small or large movement. So Bongo66 what company is it?



Yes but in a free market Bongo is the price. If someone is dumb enough to sell at below market (what ever below "market" is because it sounds to me NZX members rules in this regard are manipulating to ensure a smoother ride for all - or is it for them?) A nice earner for the members of NZX hiding behind the guise of socialist lets protect the little investor fluffy wuffies, perhaps.


Lambton mate, if you dont like the market why not set up an alternative yourself or avoid playing in this one.

I really do think the current system is a good one and who cares if orders are not being disclosed. I as a client with a large order would not want my broker chucking the whole lot on the market for anyone to see. That would compromise my order. I think the current setup is pretty good.


It the same old story, I'm ok so who give a rats ar%e what others think.

[Wanderer]

C'mon guys. Market is market. Price is relative to supply and demand, if you have a willing buyer and a willing seller then why should a third party (in this case the broker)have any influence over the transaction. In Bongo's case someone might be pretty upset they've missed out on their buy order.

I can see a huge opening for "www.trademe.co.nz - off market share transactions"

I hope you're reading this Mr Morgan

Wanderer send a copy to the CEO of NZX.

[whiteheron]

Dont expect any response from NZX ; they never respond to anything

Probably far too busy running around looking after the big fish than to consider the minnows like us

I sincerely hope that I am proven wrong though

[bongo66]

The share was CEN ,it was only 620 shares, part of a much larger trade. I wanted to sell 4 cents below market this portion.

The price of CEN was going down, my position in CEN was no longer wanted and I wanted to exit.

A question is if I didnt get the price I originally wanted and because of ASBs manipulation(lets call it what it is) and the price went down, would ASB wear the difference-i dont thinks so and havent asked.

I did actually get a higher price than my on market placement but that is not the point.


C'mon guys. Market is market. Price is relative to supply and demand, if you have a willing buyer and a willing seller then why should a third party (in this case the broker)have any influence over the transaction. In Bongo's case someone might be pretty upset they've missed out on their buy order.

I can see a huge opening for "www.trademe.co.nz - off market share transactions"



Excellent point Wanderer and one I have thought about since logging onto the net in 98. We did away with full service brokers if we didnt want them and i cant see why we cant have a DIRECT selling system for shares visa vie the type of thbing that goes on with the swapping of files via peer to peer networks-lets cut out the bloody brokers and even the NZX itself!!

Cant the above be done?

B;)

[whiteheron]

bongo66

Top marks , you are thinking outside the square and that is great

I dont know if that would be possible , but I would bet my last dollar that even if it was that it will never come about

Politics , power , regulations , people protecting their patches etc etc will see to that you can be sure

I have come to the conclusion that even as imperfect as the system is it is still possible to trade successfully and as I am only small (although I spend about $10,000 to $12,000 per annum on brokerage ) I have no influence over how the market and those who manipulate it operate so I can do nothing much about it

[lambton]

Hi Bongo. Good on yah.

Well some of us are doing our best to smoke out dubious practices.
While as some responders have rightly said there is little we can do to change the system. However what I'm enjoying is it warns others that the NZX isn't and probably never will be a level playing field. Bringing a further level of awareness means that the rips on the public will get more difficult to execute. I say give me an equal playing field and I'll show the Insto's and their mates what making a quid is all about.
Thanks Wanderer for joining the fray.

[Winston001]

Thanks for the heads up Bongo. Frankly I'm astonished. I thought it might be a low value share where you'd send a 4-10% signal to the market to get out. I could just about, at a stretch, understand brokers not wanting to send a "false" signal.

But heck, the size of the sale would show up, and noone else would be compelled to follow you. So I really do not understand ASB.

I'd be inclined to complain to the Commerce Commission. I'll do it for you if you like, but you would need to be prepared to talk to them. It may sound like a bother but how many times does this happen to other people?

[Wanderer]

quote:A question is if I didnt get the price I originally wanted and because of ASBs manipulation(lets call it what it is) and the price went down, would ASB wear the difference-i dont thinks so and havent asked

Hey Bongo, it's not just what you may have lost on the share price from ASB not accepting the trade, it's also lost opportunities

example - needed to sell CEN to free up funds for another investment

[Steve]

ASB Securities would not allow a 4c move on CEN?![:0]

Greater spread moves occur on a regular basis:

NZR jumps in 50c intervals in the $30's but it is still a greater %move than 4c on CEN!

TWR jumps in 2c intervals around $2 which is like a 6c move in CEN!

Where is the consistency?!

[JAMP]

quote:Originally posted by Winston001

But heck, the size of the sale would show up, and noone else would be compelled to follow you. So I really do not understand ASB.Perhaps (and I only say perhaps) there was a significant stop-loss that would have triggered had they traded at that price. If the stop-loss was material enough it could have resulted in a 5%+ shareprice movement, which no doubt would have triggered other stop losses. So perhaps ASB declined the sale not on the basis of this one trade, but because of the potential flow-on effect that this trade would have triggered.

Purely speculation on my part of course, but like all good conspiracy theories...it is possible.

Regards JAMP
NZX: MCH MFT MVN PPG RBD SAN SKX SPN VTX
Unlisted: BRK

[whiteheron]

JAMP

I get your point , but then we all make our picks and take our chances

A 4c move on a 6.50 share is only 0.6 % and would surely come within normal market "noise "

As it is not uncommon for prices to vary by a percent or two over the course of a day I fail to see how a small parcel at 0.6 % below the the last price could be a problem ( unless there were very few buyers at prices other than very considerably below market and I see this from time to time , but not on heavily traded shares )

I dont know if the broker would be aware of the details of stop losses sitting out there as they dont show up in the depth tables that we see --- they only become orders when the "stop " price is reached

There is something about this that doesnt ring true and I would dearly like to know what

[I.T.Ancient]

If a seller offered a very small quantity to a buyer and after that small trade the market rose again, then the buyer of the tiny quantity would presumably have to pay the minimum brokerage even if the large part of their order were unfulfilled. Maybe brokers are supposed to protect buyers from that situation. But 620 CEN shares is not an excessively tiny trade.

[Sky Tower]

quote:Originally posted by whiteheron

I bet that every brokerage house in the country has an unidentified poster or two on ShareTrader and they are sure to be pushing some barrow or other

Some posts are very obviously from these brokerage houses and probably should be divulged , but very few ever are

Come on folks own up , but I bet you dont ! prefering to hide behind the anonymity of a non de plume

I bet this post will not elicit any responses other than from those who have already divulged a connection ; come on prove me wrong , I am waiting


This is slight OT for which I apologise.

No further postings expressing an "interest" as per Whiteheron's comment above. Really that shouldn't surprise you.

I have only seen two people declare an "interest" in the whole time I've been posting on 'ShareTrader'. Myself (I work for National Bank Online Share Trading - a fair number of people know who I am) and "Justine" (Justine Harwood of Direct Broking).

So of all the hundreds of posters here we appear to be the only brokers, employees of broking firms/banking firms, fund managers, employees of fund managers etc. Or at least the only ones honourable enough to declare an "interest". So no other posters from another online broker, NZX firm, fund manager, investment advisory firm etc.

Interesting really.

[Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by Capitalist

I disagree that one should have to disclose anything. The beauty of this type of forum is the anonymity. Who cares? I value the broker's opinions and the site would be poorer if they didn't post. Anyone who takes such talk as gospel is too stupid to be in the markets.

Bejus - no-one is splitting atoms here. It's a bit self-absorbed to think YOUR opinion is so good you had better add a disclaimer to it.

Cap, isn't there a discrepancy between this view and the view you stated on the ASX thread regarding Packersoldkidney and DavidRobb?

Bongo: I have no idea regarding the rules of brokers but find it odd that the focus wasn't on satsifying your order. As someone else has stated that isn't a large % drop for CEN. I would be a little curious as well.

Edit...Enigma: you're right I got confused, apologies (competition wouldn't be a shabby idea)

Cooper I think you have to posts mixed up I only suggested Wanderer send a copy of his Suggestion Or Complaint to the NZX Boss who in my personal opinion is an overpaid Idiot, that will not be happy until somebody else opens in competition to NZX and sends them to the wall.

[truedragon]

I think trademe.co.nz allow auction share is a brillian idea... ebay should take a lead on this. Having said that, I think there is regulation in place to protect the like of NZX and the existing broker's and won't be as straight forward as just share auction away although I don't see why not, or if the auction house get the right certificate to trade share and etc.. briliiant idea.

I am ****ing pissed off with ASB man. I was going to sell my AUW @ 1.2x the first day and found out that I couldn't trade it because they have not lodge it yet. Bullocks.... useless.... piss me off.

TrueDragon that is the big bug bear of the australian broker sponsorship system. It could take up to three weeks to get them registered with broker the number of forms you may have to fill in.

[Steve]

Bongo, did you enquire to the NZX?

[blackcap]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

Bongo, did you enquire to the NZX?



Bongo and others, apologies, ASB are clowns as far as this is concerned. If it was a 20 cent stock I could understand their reasoning but not on a stock such as cEN.

What a bunch of D ick Heads.

[metro]

Is anyone able to sign into ASB Securities website at the moment?

All I get is:

System Error

02-13580442 - We are unable to action your request at this time. Please report this fault quoting the reference above.

I am however able to sign into National Bank and Direct Broking.

[absolut-advance]

Nope Seems ASB SECURITIES IS DOWN having same problem here. Well it is xmas :)
quote:Originally posted by metro

Is anyone able to sign into ASB Securities website at the moment?

All I get is:

System Error

02-13580442 - We are unable to action your request at this time. Please report this fault quoting the reference above.

I am however able to sign into National Bank and Direct Broking.

[metro]

It would be good to view one's portfolio and watchlists over the holiday period.

But I have duplicated them with National Bank anyway :)

Glad I have sign ons for all 3 online brokers in NZ

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by bongo66

Excellent point Wanderer and one I have thought about since logging onto the net in 98. We did away with full service brokers if we didnt want them and i cant see why we cant have a DIRECT selling system for shares visa vie the type of thbing that goes on with the swapping of files via peer to peer networks-lets cut out the bloody brokers and even the NZX itself!!

Cant the above be done?

It can be done but wouldn't work.

The big risk is security. I don't mean cloak and dagger - I mean who is good for their promises (whether cash or equities).

So where there's risk, there's cost, and where there's cost, we pay.

Ever wonder why there isn't (with respect) a Bongo Bank? ;)

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by bongo66

Selling a very small number of shares @ market yesterday via ASB i was told on the phone that, "ill check to see if we can do that" As things transpired she wouldnt let me sell at market, telling me; "we dont want to do that as that would drop the SP too much-i wanted to get rid of shares at the bidders price 4 cents below the last trade.

Whats be happening here and should I inform the NZX? There was a willing buyer at a market price but I was not allowed to sell at that price.

Your input would be gratefully accepted.

There is no good reason why they did not accept your order. Change to another broker and place a trigger-order in the future.

Make sure to let ASB know why you're only using them as a last resort.

[warthog]

quote:Originally posted by Paper Tiger


quote:
Client Service Agreement Terms and Conditions

15.b) refuse to execute an order where we consider that executing the order is likely to create a false or misleading market for, or price / yield of the relevant Security, and


I think they have themselves covered.


How so? How would executing bongo's order at bid be "likely to create a false or misleading market" for the equity concerned? If the parcel is too small, the transaction goes through tagged accordingly and does not affect the market price.

Now, if Bongo was wanting to sell 1000 NZO at 0.85, 1000 at 0.82, 1000 at 0.79 all the way down to 0.62, then buy 100k at 0.65, that's a bit different.

[metro]

still unable to sign on :(

[metro]

After 2 days (48 hours) I'm able to sign in again !!

Good that I can sign in, but not good it has taken in excess of two days to repair the fault.

[PointyHat]

Has anyone been allocated GFF shares by ASB Securities and then find they do not have them?
I was allotted 7024, confirmed by ASB 19th and again 28th December 2005. I only received 1000 package however, with a new Common Shareholder # and a with a new FIN thru the public offer!! This notified by post on the 24th December!!

Has anyone else experienced this or similar?

ASB are sorting it out but their computer is down. Woe!
Any advise?

[PointyHat]

ASB have provided today the balance of my allocation mentioned above, good of them EH?

[metro]

oh yeah how mighty of them
next time do you trading through a different broker
nbnz? direct? first nz capital?

you won't have the same hassle next time.

..but I bet you don't.

[donnie]

Is anyone here buying Australian shares.

if so.

Is it me or does the currency conversion ASB do after a trade on Aus shares seem wrong.
__________________________________________________ _________________

If there are any mathaholics out there, what total do you get after the following addition.

Total Cost :........... A$ 3,499.78

Exchange Rate :........ 0.8400

Total=______________

hopefully its my bad addition not ASB's.

thanks in advance anyway

[777]

NZ$4,166.41. It is actually division not addition.

[donnie]

it was me then oops. I must go back to school. been away from school to many years. thanks again

[patsy]

As an aside, I've noticed that the exchange rate they normally use is a real rip off. I recently tried to convert some funds from my NZD account to AUD account and they offered a "punitive" exchange rate. I ended up transfering the funds in NZD to Westpac and then asked them to send a wire transfer back to ASB in AUD. Unbelievable!

[lanenz]

quote:Originally posted by patsy

As an aside, I've noticed that the exchange rate they normally use is a real rip off. I recently tried to convert some funds from my NZD account to AUD account and they offered a "punitive" exchange rate. I ended up transfering the funds in NZD to Westpac and then asked them to send a wire transfer back to ASB in AUD. Unbelievable!
Maybe they come under the same scope as the issue surrounding overseas transactions using the credit card. If they are taking an addition cut on the exchange rate then it should be hidden in the fine print some where.

A good guage to go by is the use this website http://www.xe.com/ucc/ and take off 1% from that at the time of your trade. If any more than that then they are ripping you off. The credit card i think is 1% plus an addition .75 or 1%

[OldRider]

The NZD/AUD crossrate yesterday, from memory, was round 0.8450 at the start of the days trading, and was round 0.8480 at the close.

If your trade was done yesterday, the rate ASB used would not seem too bad for that amount of money, even better if the trade was made in the morning.