pentacles investments limited

[roaddog]

Has any of you dudes heard of this company they had a add in the paper offering shares and unsecured subordinated notes at 9%.The companys activities is finance and share trading and has been operating in new zealand since 2004 the main activaities of the company is to accept investments from the public and to provide financial and share trading services to new zealand business and individuals. I got hold of the director of pentacles investments who sent me a investment statement.The company directer said he had been investing in the markets for years and has made and lost money and was a experiened investor and had made over 1000% on some investments on the share markets

The notes are (unsecured subordinated) notes at 9% how safe are investments like this ? and is it like a loan to the company ?would i be better to invest with the bank at 7% which is a less risker investment ?

[Scooter]

Roaddog,

Never heard of them. Director is Paul Thomas Elden, and is not a director anywhere in NZ that I can find. He is in the top 20 shareholders in Media Technology Group with 79,000 shares.

If this guy had been in the markets for many years, why can I not find anything else out about the guy on the internet.

Can anyone else bring up any dirt on this guy

[roaddog]

Scooter dude thats interesting as i also liked Media technology but sold out at a loss :(the director said he had been a top 20 share holder in a few NZ & AUS companies

[duncan macgregor]

ROADDOG, never invest if in doubt. GOLDEN RULE NUMBER ONE. macdunk

[Halebop]

It's not really that hard being a top 20 shareholder. I bet $50,000 would get you in the top 20 on dozens if not hundred of ASX/NZX companies.

A companies office search shows Paul Thomas Elden to be a director of Pentacles Investments Ltd, based in Feilding. He does not appear to be a director of any other New Zealand company.

Pentacles is the plural for Pentacle which is another word for Pentagram, the five pointed star associated with the occult. Perhaps Mr Elgan has some special "insight" into the workings of our markets. If that was the case he might be worth lending money to at 9% for sharetrading. Not a prospect I would entertain anyway.

Why would anyone want to lend 9% unsecured to a sharetrader? The unfortunate thing is investments like this seem to attract the kinds of people who can't afford to lose their money.

[paul29]

Pentacles investments limited is my company paul29 is paul thomas elden

Pentagram,is to do with witchcraft.
pentacles is to do with money.
They are both symbols with different meaning

The money from the notes is to fund a Finance company it is not for sharetrading

Roaddog yes the notes are a loan to the company

if anyone has some questions i can answer them

if anyone is interested in a investment statement
email pentacles29@xtra.co.nz

[Unicorn]

9% seems very low for Unsecured Subordinated Notes, especially if this is a borrower with no track record. In my opinion, somewhere in the 11% to 13% range would seem more appropriate to the (high) risk involved.

A quick look shows one finance company offering 8.6% for Secured Debenture Stock, and 11% for Unsecured Subordinated Notes.

Grosvenor Financial Services back in January showed a theoretical return for 12 months in the 10.35% to 12.84% range for their high risk category G8 ... "Recommended for sophisticated investors only - the Investment Statement and Prospectus are unlikley to contain sufficient information on which to evaluate credit risk."

[roaddog]

Unicorn dude looks like paul has put his interest on the notes up to 13% thats better for a high risk investment i am going to have a punt with $5000 cause it good to see dudes give it go and he has given a few good tips on here over the years

good luck paul

[Dazza]

sucker........
is 13% really that good... unsecured.. and all sounds dodgy to me like macdunk says..

with 5k id rather put it into WAM/CEN/steel and tube and that property co. that gives high divis

[paul29]

Thanks roaddog for your interest in my company

Dazza this note issue is not dodgy pentacles investments has made some good investments this year on the share market with company's like Summit Resources it is hard to raise capital for small companys and this note issue is one way of getting capital


pentacles investments is offering unsecured subordinated notes with a interest rate of 13% for 24 months notes will be allotted on first come first served basis

[Snapper]

quote:Originally posted by paul29

Thanks roaddog for your interest in my company

Dazza this note issue is not dodgy pentacles investments has made some good investments this year on the share market with company's like Summit Resources it is hard to raise capital for small companys and this note issue is one way of getting capital


pentacles investments is offering unsecured subordinated notes with a interest rate of 13% for 24 months notes will be allotted on first come first served basis






So Paul, is the money raised going to be used to invest in other companies or is it a finance company? If its a finance company what sort of assets will it be lending on?

[paul29]

Hi Snapper,The money from the notes will be used for a finance company the company will be lending on assets such as car and house

[roaddog]

paul29 dude what share was it that you made over a 1000% on [?]was it on the NZ market or AUS [?]

[John Mexted]

quote:Originally posted by paul29

Thanks roaddog for your interest in my company

Dazza this note issue is not dodgy pentacles investments has made some good investments this year on the share market with company's like Summit Resources it is hard to raise capital for small companys and this note issue is one way of getting capital


pentacles investments is offering unsecured subordinated notes with a interest rate of 13% for 24 months notes will be allotted on first come first served basis

No offense, but the spelling, grammar and punctuation in the above post would be enough to put me off this offer. It just makes me feel uneasy about the professionalism involved.

[Tyke]

I would have to agree with John;it seems rather amateurish to me.


quote:Originally posted by John Mexted

No offense, but the spelling, grammar and punctuation in the above post would be enough to put me off this offer. It just makes me feel uneasy about the professionalism involved.

[Paper Tiger]

I note that paul29 is dead last in the stock pick contest* [:0]
and roaddog is one place above him* [:0]

*Results taken at the end of February. They may have improved since then ;)

cheers

Paper Tiger [8D]

[paul29]

Roaddog -The share was BMO (AUS)bought for 1 cents when it was Australian Silicon Ltd portman sold all its shares to Australian silicon share holders for 1 cent then the company change its name to BMA GOLD last trade was 29.5c so it was a good buy ;)

John Mexted-
quote:but the spelling, grammar and punctuation in the above post would be enough to put me off this offer

yes my spelling is bad but so is a lot of others [:p][:0]

amateurish involved[?]

professionalism involved.[?]


I started with $6000 when i first got into investing in the sharemarket by the end of my first year i had made over $100,000 so good question amateurish or professionalism




Pentacles Investments is offering unsecured subordinated notes with a interest rate of 13% for 24 months for a investment statement and application form contact

The Investment Manager

Pentacles Investments Limited

email.. pentacles29@xtra.co.nz

[roaddog]

paul29 dude is pentacles jobs one of your companies [?]could you tell me how much you sold the company for[?] I know someone that used pentacles jobs and they said that you found them a job with in 1 week of signing up for your email service at a cost of $25

In the information you sent note holders you said you were going to issue Preference shares in pentacles investments when is this going to happen [?]

[roaddog]

Thanks paul29 dude got my cheque in the mail today 13% was a good interest rate for 12 months rate dude






Investors getting little return for their risk

SUNDAY , 05 MARCH 2006

By ROB STOCK
The rule of diminishing returns is rarely more clearly in action than in the finance company debenture market.

When the rates at which finance companies make loans to customers are compared with the rates they give investors, it is clear investors are getting little for their risk-taking.

For putting their money into portfolios of risky loans with an average interest rate of more than 25%, they are paid between 1% and 1.45% more than investors in portfolios of much safer loans attracting rates of about 10%.

Asset Finance, for example, charges its borrowers more than 30% on average, but pays its investors 9%. Marac lends at 10.9% and pays out 7.75%. That's only 0.65% or so extra return for investors per 10% extra garnered by finance companies.

Using data from www. interest. co. nz (taken from finance companies' latest financial reports), we created a league table of all the finance companies selling debenture investments to investors, ranking them by the average rate at which they lend to their customers.

The table gives a guide to which finance companies have the riskiest loans, assuming the companies are acting rationally, said David Chaston of www. interest.co.nz.

For example, in the consumer finance market, which deals with personal loans and loans for goods such as cars, whiteware and consumer electronics, Asset Finance of Whakatane had the highest lending rate - 31.8% compared with Instant Finance's 29.3%, Western Bay Finance's 28.6%, Geneva Finance's 26.8% and Broadlands Finance's 24.8%. The rates are high because borrowers include people on benefits and those with such poor credit records that banks will not lend to them.

In commercial finance, Prime and Gold Band Finance topped the league, and in property finance, General Finance and Clegg & Co were lending at the highest rates.

We then ranked all the companies in each of the three sectors by the rates they were paying investors for their 12-month debenture investments, and calculated the difference to get an indication of where the best mix of risk and return can be found.

We found that 10 of the 23 consumer finance companies were paying investors less than half the rate at which they were lending.

Investors in those with portfolios of the riskiest loans were getting only 1.25% more than those investing with the finance companies with the safest loans.

Returns are similarly bunched in the property and commercial finance company sectors.

The three commercial lenders with the highest average lending rates pay investors 8.875% on average, only 0.4% above the average of the three lending at the lowest average rates.

The three property finance companies with the portfolios of the riskiest loans were paying investors 9.17% compared with 8.42% for those lending at the lowest rates.

The results showed investors were not getting paid enough for the risk they were taking, said Chaston. Companies could get away with paying such low premiums for much higher risk because the market was inefficient and investors were not taking risk seriously enough.

There is no daily pricing or trading for finance company debentures, as there is for bonds from the likes of Contact Energy, Fonterra and Commonwealth Bank of Australia. They are listed on the NZDX debt market, which results in investors getting a fair return for the risk they are taking.

But such league tables and interest rate differentials are only a part of the picture, says Chaston. Investors need to read investment statements and prospectuses to also understand how much equity, or "hurt money" management has, how long the company has been in business, the quality of the management, how long the company has been profitable for, and to whom it is lending.

Financial planners recommend investors do not put all their eggs in one basket, and tell investors