CFD's long & shorts

[JBmurc]

Finally got my CFD platform up in running after 2months stuff rounds by E*Trade -anyone here into CFD's
as of today-long- STO 10% margin 8000ords paid 1046(low 7 P/E good production ,higher oil likely on production cut,looks to have bottomed on chart)

-QAN- looks like a good short at 4.20 also JBH (but can't short with man)

also watching-TAP, ARQ for entry

[Tomahawk]

I use IG Markets. Find them pretty good. Had a dabble with CMC Markets but never looked back once I tried IG Markets as they offer a far superior product.

Am holding TAP and ARQ CFDs :-) Hoping Priam comes in for TAP.

[JBmurc]

Whats the margins on ARQ & TAP
pi***ed off as MAN financial DMA access has changed the margin ratio up from 15% to 20% BHP from 5% to 7%

Brokerage tier

Standard under 500k

Brokerage Rate Greater of A$17.50
or 0.175% of contract


Trade more than 500k in total trades

A$15.00
or 0.15% of contract


Long CFD position interest rate You're charged
benchmark rate^^
PLUS 3% You're charged
benchmark rate


Short CFD position
benchmark rate
LESS 3% You receivie

[davidrob]

But JB Murc,:)

YOu ought not be tooo pis%^$sed off about the E Trade CFD margins---

E Trade is owned by ANZ Bank-- and guess what-- they get their --in house' margins--by utilizing the (ITE) Razor simmulation software--to enure they make a fat profit!! [}:)][}:)] - ;)-[8D]

Kindest Regards,

Robbo :)

[JBmurc]

Yeah I know alot of E*trades profits come from the CFD traders.
As long as I,m making good money from trading CFD's I'll keep doing it,looking good to make $1040 for the day with a Sell on STO of 1059
up 10% on funds invested;)been good day allround 3% growth in Portfilo today

[Tomahawk]

Hi JB,

It's 10% for the both of them. Generally 5% for asx20, 10% for asx200 and 15% or more for the others.

Have a look at:
http://www.igmarkets.com.au/content/sites/aum/en_GB/sh_au_shares_list.html

Btw, brokerage is 0.1% with a minimum of $1.

[JBmurc]

Sounds good;) sold out of STO-1057($880profit) trying to buy ARQ 156.5 will rocket if there's GAS&oil annoucement on monday from sugarloaf 25% in ADI worth 50c-70c to ARQ if 800BCF

[davidrob]

Good going ... and $$$$ --- Exceeeelent --- [8D]--JBM...

and you have a nice, great & relaxing weekend !!

Kind Regards,

Robbo :)

[edison]

I am longing CBH as well as MCR using IG Markets, since they are the only one I know of that allows trading through the browser. Mainly because both MCR and CBH are not approved shares for Commsec Margin Loans. Most likely I will move away from margin loans altogether next year and into CFDs (as well as non-gearable shares using Commsec).

Will have look at ARQ this weekend.

[George]

Hi JBmurc
I trade warrants and have been watching STO.
How do CFD's compare, do they have large spreads, how much leverage?
Also feel the chart looks ok and almost bought STOWOM today at 13c (1059-60) just before the close but will wait a bit. This would have been for a few days/weeks position hoping the SP goes to 1200/1250 when the warrant would have doubled or tripled.
What did you base your trade on and was it strictly a day trade?
Cheers
George

[JBmurc]

What did you base your trade on and was it strictly a day trade?
Cheers
George

Depending on how confident I'm on the share and its market(gold,oil etc)makes up the time frame usually 1-12 day holding on longs and sometimes longer or really depends on risk higher the margin 20%+ less risk on little downturn, for shorts about the same even through I'd love to short QAN over the longer term in 2 parcels lessing my risk.



As for STO yeah it was basicly a day trade on the back of a low point in there chart looked prime for a rebound and with Oil also rising on OPEC cut look very low risk,Cuning plan was to make a quick day profit on STO ($880)while watching ARQ for a cheap entry point for a longer hold ,was going to plan till I closed my CFD platform by accident and couldn't reopen for the last 30min of trading only got $13,000 worth of ARQ at 156.5 and not the $50,000 I was after which I would have paid 157 to get before close,will run hard IMHO on mondays open once the market digests whats going on over the weekend.

[edison]

JBMurc,

I traded MCR for a week. Closed my position in profit and start another one on Friday.

AS for CBH I have relatively tight stops with it but I am planning to hold it for a few months because it could take a few months for it to be "re-rated" like ZFX/KZL/PEM/MRE. I also move my stop losses as the price increases in order to protect my gains.

[George]

JBmurc
Maybe good call on daytrade STO with oil down to 2006 lows but won't that be good for QAN? QAN at possible double top also old highs of 4.25ish and RSI showing bearish divergence - may look at puts Monday but not sure about oil price in the near term.
Good luck with ARQ, they are at longer term resistance on the down trend line but have broken the shorter line and bounced off 150. A break of 160 would be bullish - apart from any news.
George.

[JBmurc]

holding a 29,000ord long in ARQ av 1.56 hoping the news from ADI's sugarloaf early next week will be good kicking ARQ into gear and over the 1.60 resistance with a value of 70cps to ARQ if its at least 800bcf ;)

[}:)]getting sick of the 292-293 seller who places up to 20+ sells in a row ($400+30commisson)100's per day always selling ,have watched this seller go from selling at 153.5-153-152.5 to 148c at which point some holders(no doult cfd long holder panic)and built up a large 70,000 selling position at 150 say then like clock work large buys hit the market 20,000-15,000 lots within seconds of another buying the SP weakness back to 152c+ [?][?][?][?]

---Off HC------
Comment:

Most of those small trades are not being placed by people. They are computer generated buy and sell orders designed to keep a specific equity balance in an institution's portfolio.

These sorts of trades in my opinion are a disgrace and should only be allowed in order to complete a minimum dollar value purchase or sale

[JBmurc]

Got a good old fashion ass wipping from my ARQ long [xx(]
-going long BHP 5000 25.05 hoping for some better times aheah for the CFD account balance;)

[JBmurc]

-forget about sub-$50 oil-Great time for some CFD longs in the energy oil sector -shorts-anything that uses alot of oil-airlines etc
-still holding a long in ARQ
-just took up a long in OSH 3.49 up 3.55 30mins before close made a nice 18% on cap-with talk of a BP-EXXON takeover

PPX,HVN looks good for a short

Bush Plans to Double Size of U.S. Oil Reserve by 2027 (Update4)

By Jim Efstathiou Jr. and Tina Seeley

Jan. 23 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. President George W. Bush plans to double the size of the country's emergency oil reserves to 1.5 billion barrels by 2027, Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said.

The government this spring will start buying 100,000 barrels of oil a day to fill the stockpile to its current capacity of 727 million barrels, Bodman said in a conference call with reporters. Crude oil prices had their biggest gain since the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in September 2005 on concern that the purchases will stretch global supplies.

``U.S. demand continues to grow, and our strategic stocks need to keep up that same pace at least,'' said Mark Routt, an analyst at Energy Security Analysis Inc. in Wakefield, Massachusetts. ``It's obviously a wise decision in terms of economic and political security,''

Congress established the emergency reserve in 1975, after the Middle East oil embargo, to make up for global supply disruptions. The U.S. tapped the stockpile in 1991 after Iraq invaded Kuwait and in 2005 after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita disrupted pipelines, refineries and Gulf of Mexico production.

``Expanding the strategic petroleum reserve is a wise and prudent policy decision that will provide an additional layer of protection for our nation's energy security,'' Bodman said. The president will highlight the plan in his State of the Union address tonight.

The expanded reserve, stored in salt caverns along the U.S. Gulf Coast, would be equal to about 97 days of U.S. oil imports. It will cost about $65 billion, including $10 billion to build new storage facilities and $55 billion for the extra crude, according to Energy Department spokesman Craig Stevens.

Oil Prices Rise

Benchmark crude oil futures rose $2.46, or 4.7 percent, to $55.04 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

``The market loved it,'' said Adam Sieminski, chief energy economist at Deutsche Bank. Oil as up just 50 cents in New York prior to Bodman's announcement.

Bush's plan adds ``significant upward pressure on oil prices,'' said Jason Schenker, an economist at Wachovia Corp. in Charlotte, North Carolina. ``It would remove a significant amount of supply from the market. Refiners will have to spend more to get the available barrels.''

Bodman said the government ``will acquire crude oil in a manner that does not adversely affect the market or raise gasoline prices.''

Congress must appropriate money to fund the expansion of the reserve. The Bush administration will make the first funding request in the fiscal year 2008 budget, to be released next month, Stevens said.

The oil purchases that will begin in about two months will be made using $584 million raised when the government sold oil from the reserve following Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. ``We believe that we can purchase about 11 million barrels of oil over the course of a few months'' using those funds, Bodman said.

After that, the effect on the market will be reassessed and the agency will continue acquiring oil under a program that allows oil producers to pay royalties in kind by providing oil to the reserve.

To contact the reporters on this story: Jim Efstathiou Jr. in Washington at jefstathiou@bloomberg.net ; Tina Seeley in Washington at tseeley@bloomberg.net .

[Nimble]

I'm planning to start trading CFD's on ASX shares soon. Anyone suggest who to use? From the comments above IG Markets sounds good.

[JBmurc]

I'm still using MAN FIN-Iress- through my E*Trade account easy to transver money between my Trading accounts
End of the day sometimes having to pay a higher Margin can be good like when the position turns againist ya-Certainly not a novice product CFD's can drive ya broke in no time.-start small-

-as of today I'm some 30% down on Cap invested in CFD's confident I can turn this to profit within the next 60 days

[JBmurc]

Going long on- OSH-20,000 at 3.63 target $4
still long on -ARQ target 1.50+

Like alot of large oilers OSH is looking well undervalued with a low p/e-5.89 and a huge amount of drilling action over the near term with any success rerating upwards.

As for looking for any SHORTs-JBH has run hard of late doing well opening more stores with futher growth in sales being the main driver of the sp
-what worrys me is how credit drivin the sales of JBH are,and if there was to be a falling in the property / ASX market likley sooner rather than later the market JBH is in -LCD's,Computers etc would be the likely to be downgraded -Huntleys value JBH at $4 current SP-7.62 P/e-22 Yield-1.23
Asset backing-40c
-will look to Short Once this uptrend looks to have run its course $8

[JBmurc]

AS the ASX runs over 6000 I've been looking for overvalued companys to Short As there will be correction soooner rather than later
always a good hedge to my other share holdings-

One Share is PPX which looks overvalued currently and maybe a good short with interest rates&oil on the rise brief look over there lastest ann shows a-
-small increase on total revenue
-but net profit down- raising funds to pay of dept
anyone shed some light why PPX is a buy at these 440 levels P/E- 30+
-ASX200 at all time high.;)

-off Huntleys------

The interim is still subdued. Mild signs of improvement are the 11% sales lift to $3.9bn and the 7% lift in EBITDA to $138m. NPAT fell 7% to $33m. We include a negative $10m for various restructuring charges with PPX continuously restructuring. Excluding these charges, EBIT rose 24% to $96m. DPS fell 9% to 5c unfranked.

Net operating cash flow dived from negative $32m to negative $142m. Working capital jumped 9% to $1.5bn.


Business Impact: Return on funds employed using EBIT (ROFE) slightly gained to a lowly 6.6%. Wholesale Paper Merchanting’s ROFE improved to 11.4% - Australia still woeful at under 1%. PPX confirmed being on track with counter-measures, mainly upgrading Australian production. This targets lowering costs by $100m from FY08. PPX is issuing $250-300m in hybrid preference securities. Depending on the conversion ratio, these will likely dilute ordinary shareholders and moderate ordinary dividends. Yet PPX has gone from 350 to 440 in a blink of an eye

-Must be something I'm missing here

[JBmurc]

--PPX down 11c so far profit takers getting out,looking for PPX to retreat to 4.00-4.10 mid-late this week at which time I'll be buying out my 3.35 Short ;)$300 profit per 1c fall

--STO looks great for a long today at 990 20c ex divie tommrow paid on Ex. date if CFD ,Crude OIL looking strong

[JBmurc]

-Got to love making money on ya shares going down PPX is looking very weak -

[JBmurc]

-PPX buyers can't seem to care that the selling depth shows they could buy a holding in PPX alot cheaper than 4.29 which constantly keeps getting sold into -PPX P/e 31[xx(]

---buys----

11 12912 4.290
2 4570 4.280
3 33373 4.250
3 7300 4.240
1 2500 4.230
2 1457 4.220
1 8000 4.210



---Sells---
10 380155 4.300 ;)major sellers
2 2215 4.310
1 5800 4.320
1 11483 4.330
1 1500 4.340
2 1593 4.350
1 6664 4.360
4 16875 4.370
3 35208 4.380

[Shrewd Crude]

JBM
I agree with you on OSH... my close buddy has invested into OSH and is picking it also....
personally im not into larger oil stocks, but I watch OSH with interest....
I've just started out with CFD's and only going to hold long positions for quite some time....
got AED long a few weeks back.....
Im with CMC markets and they have charged me 40 bucks a month to be able to have a position with ASX stocks....
other than that, im stoked to have made my first CFD trade...

[8D]
.^sc

[JBmurc]

quote:Originally posted by Shrewd Crude

JBM
I agree with you on OSH... my close buddy has invested into OSH and is picking it also....
personally im not into larger oil stocks, but I watch OSH with interest....
I've just started out with CFD's and only going to hold long positions for quite some time....
got AED long a few weeks back.....
Im with CMC markets and they have charged me 40 bucks a month to be able to have a position with ASX stocks....
other than that, im stoked to have made my first CFD trade...

[8D]
.^sc



;)SC hope your CFD trading goes well for ya.
Still learning alot and still down on Cap but firmly belive CFD will be huge in my companys share trading future profits ;)
Have really been enjoying the fact you can make money when the market&stock turns and goes south ,In short selling PPX I made over $6000 in 4 days ,could have been over $8000 but brought out my position abit early
As for OSH it's now looking good for another long at 352
Another major plus for CFD's is the fact that you invest in the larger caps which without the leveage you wouldn't usually look at when your goal is to make 100% growth on cap each year

[JBmurc]

Wish I had shorted-PDN on friday close--- %147 profit not bad for a days trading;)

[JBmurc]

quote:Originally posted by JBmurc

Wish I had shorted-PDN on friday close--- 147% profit not bad for a days work;)(10% margin short)

[soulman]

Did you short the stock? Otherwise, it would have been a bonanza.

[JBmurc]

No didn't take any position in PDN Only dreaming of massive CFD profits
from this selling madness[:0]


-Come on LHG 3.08 OSH 3.33 Gold & Oil still look solid investment Once Market stops with the fear selling

[JBmurc]

-Looks like my Long 3.33 in OSH is going pay off current match price 3.46

-closed out my long on LHG to early watching the gold price tank made me go short then buy out very quickly on golds rally small profit[xx(]

-got a long on TLS 414-( 5% margin $350 profit per 1c growth in TLSsp)
match price -419

-Hows other CFD traders going [?]

[ead83]

JB congratulations, you seem to be doing quite well out of CFDs :)

I'm just looking at dipping my toes into CFD's just wondering what provider you use. Macquarie are keen on getting me but i'd like to know what else is on the market. Any suggestions?

[JBmurc]

I use Man*financal through my E*Trade account,Use mainly because of ease to transver funds between accounts and there Iress Direct market access platform-unhappy abount there margins till you get a trade go against your position;)

[JBmurc]

sold out of TLS- 4.25 OSH-4.42 made good $$$$ could have been alot more.


Currently taking a large short on- TLS 4.35
mid sized long - CGJ 15.69 new bidder in the takeover of CGJ

--had a long on OXR 2.69 sold 2.73 for a $1250 profit(should have been 2.76)(like the look of OXR,OSH,LHG will be taking longs again soon...............

-Bit worryed there maybe some more downward pressure on the ASX (starting tomorrow;)[?])
-alot of red around in the closing hour.

[JBmurc]

;) 2.35 TLS 50000 short -brought out 2.65= $4000 profit for the day
-topped up my CGJ long to 10000 15.60av target takover sp 16.50+

-gone long again on OXR 2.66 -30000- low P/e 6.7 upcoming 5cps divie

-looking for another short-TLS,ASX,NAB

[JBmurc]

loving this volatility in the market great for CFD trading;)

sold on my-CGJ-long- 16.79 will take a 3day profit=$1900

also taking a 24hr profit with OXR placed a sell 2.72-if sold=$1800

-Like the look of MXG so taking a long at 351 another company that may be taking over soon like CGJ- low P/e good divie -5.50+ takeover talk.

-Starting to make some good profits of late:D

[JBmurc]

:Dtook a 1400 long in RIO 7370 on fridays close need a $5.15 rise to make a 100% return - the way Base metals have turned to the upside of late this may turn out very profitable;)

-CFD trading-its all about the leverage

[Shrewd Crude]

JBM...
Nice trading....
My AED position got liquidated... we had real volatile markets a few weeks back and the announcement that I was waiting on was delayed a week or so... I got triggered....
I had the right idea, the wrong timing....
I also won a monthly prize worth $100.... but i lost 2.4k....
I'm ready for round two.....

im thinking about opening a position on New Zealand oil and gas within, or in about a months time.....
NZO is close to SP lows....
undervalued stock ready to start a new trend.... a stock to watch over the next 5 months I beleive....
Its got Hector drill coming up within 8 weeks which will spur SP... Tui production in July.... and then Kupe development drilling program....
I'm thinking very closely about CFD long....
I cant see any other CFD positions that seem as secure as this one
what do you think buddy?
[8D]
.^sc

[JBmurc]

Currently got a long on MXG-Takeover from major holders looks likely but when[?] some strong support at 440-444 levels upside $5+

macquarie upgraded their valuation to $5.75
huntly's had a sell on it at 4.95

Also RIO should be a good day I hope;)

As for longer term picks(In CFD world 2-3months)
-the big ASX oilers look way undervalued-WPL,STO just checkout the WPL chart looks to be bouncing at year lows while oil is down atm
this could soon change in a hurry with so many factors against oil forming a long term down trend-#1 OPEC
yet WPL are making record nett profits and will continue too grow
-STO will rocket Once there mud disaster is finally fixed and the full cost are known which I belive the market has over reacted to what its going to cost STO


-As for NZO yeah looks good for a long,I personal hold PPP shares
-sadly can't trade NZO through MAN*Fin

[Mothman]

Great Trading!;)

Take a look at DOW, looks like it is bouncing off support at $6.60

[JBmurc]

Yeah Dow looks to be bouncing much like alot of company ATM- WPL's one
-Sold out of RIO today giving me a 3day- $2600 profit.
-MXG currently down 441 should have sold on open at 447-$300 per 1 cent movement ,still if some news comes through on the takover $5+

[JBmurc]

-Looks like I should have keeped my RIO long
-instend sold both my RIO,MXG for a mid size profit

tuesday late went long in AWE -268-will be keeping and topping up
and short on- TEL 399-not so good paper loss $2000 will exit if theres to much strenght in the bids[V]

[JBmurc]

damm telcos -lost alot on a TLS short last week.(never ever leave a CFD order in play when away from any phone or internet unless your 100% confident)
-sold AWE at 283c for a good profit
-Gone long on STO 1015c(wpl and Oil up strongly STO should follow as market looks back to the oil sector)
-gone short on QAN 521-watch this takeover fail and oil on the rise QAN looks prime for a massive fail

[soulman]

Did you bought back into CGJ? Looks like Coles will be broken up and sold off.

[JBmurc]

-No sold for a profit watched it fall away,but now its way up, But than seems to happening all the time in CFD trading you see the profit for the time invested(2-5 days 10%-30%)so you hope your've closed your position at the right time to see the Share go alot further in the way you've picked,But thats CFD trading completely different to any sharetrading I've done over the last several yrs
-You have to keep a close watch on the depth,news and sometimes completly change you mind because of the leverage Used even a good solid share going against your position can wipe weeks of profits in No time;)

Currently-Sold my STO at 1034 for $70 per 1c=$1330 gross profit
Brought out my QAN short 517-$160 per 1c (change my mind when the depth went real bullish)Now long 519 target 524+=est total QAN 2 day profit=$640+$800

Back into AWE-20,000 long 277c

[JBmurc]

_Finally getting back to my Cap before TLS disaster with the help of AWE powering ahead to $3 will look at closing long in june hopefully $3.50+

-Back long on ARQ 1.31 av --
gas find at Frankland looks great for Arc as it could be piped to their hub in Dongara and they would have the marketing rights. So even though they only have 6%, they can still make good money from it.

-Still looking for decent companys to short ;)

[ead83]

quote:Originally posted by JBmurc


-Still looking for decent companys to short ;)


JB its probably because you're looking for decent companies that you can't find anything to short!

Look for the dodgiest, losing money head-over heel, low margin, bleak prospect type companies. Keep an eagle eye on them, wait for the negative announcement and then short. :)

[JBmurc]

;)loving ARQ's breakout on the major asset purchase

-ARQ long 131c target 1.90-2.00 =250%+ on margin
-AWE long 277c target 3.40-3.50;) =200%+ -----


-IMHO it's not if but which one's going hit target first [?]


-As for shorts-TEL looks very shortable for a least a 20% target 200%profit;)

-Best of all my CFD trading account is in the black 10%

[JBmurc]

-Finally getting some decent results:Dmy CFD account just broke 30k was hitting 16-17k lows not that many weeks ago-
-Thanks to AWE ARQ

current postions-Long-AWE-2.85 30000
-Long-BHP-31.60 6000
-short-RIO-91.00 1400

Took good profits on ARQ at 145c(will be buying up a long term share holding in june tax loss selling

So far my long picks are kicking ass my shorts not so good

[stephens.pc]

-Finally getting some decent results:Dmy CFD account just broke 30k was hitting 16-17k lows not that many weeks ago-
-Thanks to AWE ARQ

current postions-Long-AWE-2.85 30000
-Long-BHP-31.60 6000
-short-RIO-91.00 1400

Took good profits on ARQ at 145c(will be buying up a long term share holding in june tax loss selling

So far my long picks are kicking ass my shorts not so good
JB, are you still actively trading CFD's? If so how are you going?

[JBmurc]

Too be honest my CFD account got wiped out in 30mins from a short on RIO 10mins before the world news of a takeover rocketed the share up $89-$99 I got out at $94 blamed my slow dial-up speed for not getting out earlier(got wireless broardband now) once RIO started running even placing a buyout 20c above last on market the time it was placed someone else had taking it was very frighting to watch 28k turn to 1k in a wave of buying pressure(the biggest more in RIO for over 20yrs i think it was
what really pissed me of was watching AWE,ARQ head upwards after my stupid mistake.(had to sell to pay CFD provider

-Will be getting back into CFD's soon,with very different set of rules to my trading risk/reward ratio

[kissssik]

My BNB CFD trade should have been 2k gross instead of 300 because my wireless system played up at the time, all part of the game, but I would never trade CFD's with dial up, never. Not the way I trade anyway.

[AMR]

I've been looking into CFDs as well - can anyone tell me if any companies aside from CMC are offering a "guaranteed stop loss" facility?

[Hoags]

JBmurc,
I too had to learn a few good CFD lessons by a decimated account in this last drop although my account was a bit smaller than yours.

Anyway my rules will now include a definite percentage of capital allocation to a single trade and I will aim to have some shorts open any time I have two or more longs open. The thing with CFDs is that money management becomes even more important.

XXA,
I have an account with IG markets and they have what is called a limited risk account which gives you GSLOs, however you need to specify this account and you pay extra for it especially with FOREX. If you specify it then all trades have a GSLO even if you don't consider it necessary. I kept it for one week before changing to a normal account.

- Hoags

[George]

Kissik
What is wrong with dialup with CFD's. I use dialup with
Iress at AOT and have few problems - can see ASX market
prices changing and instantly place a trade at bid or
ask - can I do that with CFD's.
Have looked at CMC's demo Marketmaker and so far am not
impressed, just can't figure it out and it
seems so slow - perhaps it's dialup.
George

[absolut-advance]

Im in the process of opening a account with CMC, i will be following this thread with interest.

AA

[George]

Another question if I may
If buying say, 1000 WOW at 27.00 on 5% margin, would the
brokerage be 0.1% for $27,000 or $27; or would it be $10
as my outlay would only be $1,350 (which means I could buy
about 7000 WOW CFD's to stay under the 10k limit for the
$10 brokerage).

[AMR]

Hi all,

I'm trying to decide between opening an account at IG or CMC. I plan to put in $500NZ at first and learn the ropes by playing a good number of small trades. IG markets seems to have more Euro stock but seems to provide a nice training programme (Tradesense) whereas CMC gives the free CDs and has good seminars. CMC also seems to offer better margins on ASX and NZX stock.

I guess the main point of my question is which company more newbie friendly. I plan to trade only NZX/ASX stocks for now, maybe forex later.

[absolut-advance]

Do you live in Aus or NZ?, I live in NZ and are looking at CMC.

will update with progress

AA

Hi all,

I'm trying to decide between opening an account at IG or CMC. I plan to put in $500NZ at first and learn the ropes by playing a good number of small trades. IG markets seems to have more Euro stock but seems to provide a nice training programme (Tradesense) whereas CMC gives the free CDs and has good seminars. CMC also seems to offer better margins on ASX and NZX stock.

I guess the main point of my question is which company more newbie friendly. I plan to trade only NZX/ASX stocks for now, maybe forex later.

[ratkin]

Just another form of gambling in my opinion.

You may go along for weeks making small wins then they will all be wiped out when something unexpected happens.
Meanwhile the commisions and the interest are a long term drag.
Of course sometimes there can be a trading halt on the upside resulting in big gains, however essentially its just gambling

I earn my living trading sports prices , and i can tell you that real winners wouldnt dream of trading without

1) high speed internet
2) Backup ISP incase of downtime
3) Backup computer in case of problems
4) Trading account with another organisation incase one goes offline leaving you exposed
5) Lightening protecters on plugs

etc etc You need to be totally focussed , never leave your computer during a trade, never risk more than 2% on single trade, the list goes on and on.
Discipline, discipline and more discipline coupled with a good plan. Just like in sports trading i can imagine trading CFCs is just money moving from the slow and greedy to the sharp and disciplined.

Should you paper trade first? I would say no , because people react differently when using real money and you need to find out how you react

Should you start as small as possible: Yes , there no rush , just risk the minmum , dont try and run before you can walk.

And the biggest of all is to cut your losses and let your profits run , dont be afraid to take a loss.

[Hoags]

I live in NZ and have an account with both IG and CMC. I will put together a post with what I think are the advantages and disadvantages of each when I get home from work.

[kissssik]

Well said Ratkin, I said those who are new to the game should read Ratkin's reply over and over again..........Sorry I haven't contributed to this form of late, been down with the flu..I'm keen to catch up for a chat with any full time CFD traders, I'm in West Auckland....otherwise I may see some of you at the Auckland meeting being muted on the NZX forum

[JBmurc]

Brought longs in -AWE 3.10 stoploss 3.01 -making 10m a week of Tui-Target 3.50

-JBM 11.73 stoploss 11.80 -well over sold 60-70c divi soon

Other companys I'm currently watching - long-LGL,TAP,ARQ,BHP,IGO
-short-JBH

[absolut-advance]

Hi JBmurc, I Haven't got set up yet with CMC,
Im getting a high performance PC custom built this week for the job as currently Ive been a Mac OSX user which CMC's platform doesn't support, I received their 6 DVD's which I have yet to fully absorb, and have had a little play on the DEMO market maker platform, still haven't got my head fully around it and the CFD system and how they actually make it work.
I intend to build a ASX scanner for each individual share that I intend to trade as a starting point to filter detect oversold and over-brought signals against set underlying trends, I have much work to do in this area to fine tune my trading system
It will likely be another 3-4 weeks before I get organized with my system and may have some questions for you along the way.

Keep up the posts

AA

[AMR]

Pity about the migration from Mac to PC, you might have to fork out a fair bit to get a monitor that matches the one on your mac. I ordered an information pack from IG markets three weeks ago that has yet to arrive. At the moment, I'm more leaning towards CMC since they seem to serve the NZX better.

I will probably try a position trading system for now, holding for a couple of weeks on average. I have just finished reading Dr Elder's trading for a living and now I'm starting on John Murphy's excellent TA for financial markets.

[steve fleming]

http://www.asx.com.au/resources/newsletters/traders_update/20070712_asx_cfds_fundamentally_different.htm

[David Hardman]

The problem with the CFD providers I have looked into is they force you to use their software.

I have access to various information platforms and don't want to use their clunky products.

Just provide me a simple HTML based order pad to allow me to place my CFD order.

Even better provide an XML interface and allow me to interface that way.

[Hoags]

I said I would post on some of the pros/cons WRT IG and CMC CDF providers. I don't intent to make this long so any other questions please ask.

IG Markets (Australia Only)
Web Based Platform Good to access from anywhere.
Order and stops/limits very simple.
Wider range of Australian CFDs including some smaller mining stocks (eg. ADY, AGS).
Good Basic charting package
Simple basic education and news information.
DMA (Direct Market Access) Platform means that your order appears in the market depth.
You cant access depth. (I just go to my share trading account or CMC platform).

CMC Markets (NZ Branch)
You have to download the software to your machine.
Platform harder to use but has more functionality. (Market Depth available on ASX stocks, NZ is coming apparently).
Wide range of world CFDs but fewer ASX mid/small caps stocks.
Same basic charting package as IG.
MM (Market Maker) platform means that they create a synthetic market, the CMC dealer decides if they need to place it on the real market.
Very good education and customer focus. Especially in Auckland. I have been to a free one day course and a free speaker night. They are very customer focused and have an office located in PWC Tower in Auckland.
Plus website which offers good market reports, forums etc.

Basic Commission on Australian CFDs is $8 for IG and 10 for CMC. Spreads for FOREX are roughly the same. Both offer mobile trading (Java applet on phone or PDA).

I like both platforms and use both of them for different things. I hold both accounts in AUD base currency (even the NZ based CMC). This is to reduce FOREX risk as I mostly trade on the ASX.

I would not rate one over another, I use them both and provided you make some minimum trades you pay nothing. If you don't you have to pay for the ASX feeds with CMC.

I like the IG web based platform when I am away and it is simpler, I think CMC has more of a total package. I have no interest in either company except for holding an account at each.

- Hoags

[Tok3n]

Is there any web-based platforms for CFDs in NZ

The CMC one is a pain from work (while basically doesn't really work)

[AMR]

http://www.asx.com.au/resources/newsletters/traders_update/20070712_asx_cfds_fundamentally_different.htm

Excellent, a CFD simulator. Time to get rid of the paper money.

Hoags, any real difference between the Market Maker model and the DMA model?

[Hoags]

Well from my point of view not really. With the DMA it is like real shares (although you still don't actually own them). When you place an order you will see it appear directly in the buy/sell queue (market depth). With the MM you may or may not. The dealer decides if he will hedge your order on the real market and to what level he/she will do it.

The difference may be for bigger day traders in smaller stocks who are manipulating price action a MM may not really work as well. There are a number of other factors WRT to stop loss and GSL orders but I am not to familiar with the details....

[Hoags]

CMC Markets is the only provider that I am aware of that has a branch in NZ. A get around for work is you can trade on any Java capable phone or PDA. The functionality is limited but you can easily monitor trades.

[JBmurc]

DMA is what I use with MAN*Fin -Like the fact my CFD are real and not made up prices by the CFD money maker provider.

closed my AWE-JBM long positions for a 4k profit

-Taking a new long in-BPT 115.5 stoploss 112

come on oil

[JBmurc]

JBmurc,
I haven't seen you mention too much about use of these. It would seem your losses would have been offset by attention to stops.
Also an earlier mention of slow reaction when using dial up would not have mattered?
I know that setting these too close can be a pain but probabaly worth the effort for protection of margins.
Comment?

-Never really worry to much about stoploss target limits last time when I was trading CFD's
And Trading CFD's abit like shares but on a much shorter term ,because of my reckless trading stye I lost many $$$$$ in the end.


This time I'm taking a different approch its all about the $$$$$ if the stock goes against my position I'm out if it goes postive on my postion so does my stoploss level

Yesterday I set my stoploss level alittle to close on JBM and ended selling out to early at 1255 JBM was up 1280 last i looked
-Have the stoploss set to be triggered when JBM bids hit 1255 was also playing alittle to safe and now would had have made it when the sells hit 1255

Currently have a long in ARQ-BPT with close stoplosses (which by the look of the oil price will probable be triggered.

[AMR]

JBmurc,
Can you tell us how you find a good level to place your stops? Are you using TA or simply gut feelings?

[Hoags]

IMO stop losses are a very important part of your money management strategy. Always protect your capital! Placement it is time frame dependent. For most of my trades I am looking for just below previous support. Be that interday, daily or weekly.

[JBmurc]

JBmurc,
Can you tell us how you find a good level to place your stops? Are you using TA or simply gut feelings?

For me- TA Charting short term bounce points etc LGL 291-292 so if I took a long on LGL at 293 I'd put a stoploss to be triggered if the ASK reachs 290 to be sold at 290
-Overall in the current volatile market place generally I have very close stoplosses esp.CFD's

-Today I watched my BPT position open just above my 112 trigger Stloss at 112.5 gladly it went to 115c then as the selling pressure built up at 115 I sold out for a small loss at 114.5c

-Currently long in ARQ at 135c stloss-131-ADI update on SL soon- Canning basin annoucement this week-Oil back over $70 reached 1.80 60 days ago on buy-up of assetts

[JBmurc]

-Been pretty quite on the CFDs-losing some funds on a- JBH short
-Still Long ARQ which is finally making me some $$$$$( $540 per 1c upwards)

- QAN looks good for a Short -rising Oil ,Tiger air (will wait till Ann is out)


-Watched plently of stocks I've be long on before reach new highs-AWE,OSH,OXR,JBMetc -Alot of If onlys-still thats CFD's

[Hoags]

For me long RAU yesterday and today out a couple of times for a quick profit then back in on intraday dips. Trades require close watching but its is quite exciting trading.

[JBmurc]

Gold up -DOW futures down

Current CFD's -LONG-KCN-gold analyst value $8+ 11500-at $5.39
-SHORT-CBA- weak Mkt futures- target $57.50

[JBmurc]

took a loss on KCN -CBA nothing major

Back with two longs-LGL-Gold-388
-AWE-Oil-303

Both look cheap at current levels to there current high casflows Oil $95 gold $805


Also into CWA Warrents -Bearish Oil- Bullish Gold -Bullish OJuice exp.FEB 08

-Hows the other Traders going out there

[soulman]

Shorting the index when it was 6830 (all time high) would be a good move. It just seems unsustainable and proven so (in hindsight, it's easier to see). I agree with you shorting on CBA but it was obviously wrong timing. Now, CBA is dropping like stones along with all the other major banks.

JB, how do you combat your stress level (if any?)

[AMR]

Short RAK at 4.28 stop at 437. In hindsight, maybe a bit early for a short.

[JBmurc]

Shorting the index when it was 6830 (all time high) would be a good move. It just seems unsustainable and proven so (in hindsight, it's easier to see). I agree with you shorting on CBA but it was obviously wrong timing. Now, CBA is dropping like stones along with all the other major banks.

JB, how do you combat your stress level (if any?)

-Mate when I'm not trading I'm playing with sharks (also Qutown Property developing was very stressfull 1mill+ loaned )now having Qtr mill of loan money in trading company, stress ain't to bad(losing 30k in RIO was) Play abit of golf with mates helps, motorbiking etc

[soulman]

Good stuff. At least we now know you are one of the biggest risk taker trader here in this forum, seeing all your activities have a bit of risk in them (watch out for those wayward golf balls too).

Don't tell me you short RIO before that merger proposal leaked?

[JBmurc]

I shorted RIO awhile ago when there was only really spec. talk on a takeover had a long on BHP at the same time. I did have long on RIO before hand(should have keeped it ,was Going to go long on a recent correction on RIO would have made 400%+ if I had But hey thats the Past- Gone LONG AWE-LGL Both Gold Oil up Strongly so should do alright on the CFD's next week
Also rang my CWA Broker to take a bull warrent on Gold late friday hope I got it with gold up 20+ now


-SELL Targets-LGL -4.25 AWE-3.15

[soulman]

RIO could potentially go to $160 on this Chinese rumours. Next time it drop to $130, I might have a go. At $138, there is no margin for error or a safety net.

Good gain on LGL today.

[JBmurc]

Ended up taking a profit on LGL some $1800 round 20% profit on Cap.(while still down on orginal CFD cap it's hard not to take the profits)
AWE still holding hit 313 today (also abit of a hedge against my -Bear Oil warrant-
Ended up taking a long position in WBC -Bank- Believe going of there charts (looks like there been oversold and should rebound hopefully at least $1) and with Most of the worlds markets futures looking postive hopefully a good morning open

Didn't end up with the- gold bull warrant -sounds like there was very few investors wanting to go bearish at those levels for the size I was after abit pissed would have made a nice overnite profit-The CWA brokers analyst personal believe Gold will pull back in the very short term 2-4weeks but stay bullish on the longer term outlook

Yeah was very close to going long on RIO today still decided WBC maybe the safer bet will see tomorrow.

[soulman]

Good called on your trading JB. If anything, you are out of AWE today and maybe buy into LGL again? And WBC is looking OK in this volatile market.

[JBmurc]

as I've been away today it good to see AWE surge alot higher with the good news on The- Henry Gas Feild-And as AWE closed on a high I'm confindent AWE will have another good day tomorrow-UBS recently put out a val-$4.40 on AWE ,recent selling pressure mostly over I think the Market may well rerate AWE on alot of the recent good news----SP Target?????????? Hard to know so many Times I've sold to early on me longs -OXR,RIO,ARQ

-AWE 27000 long----Target $4

-WBC sold on stoploss -1800 loss (brought more AWE at 305)


Bear OIL warrant's looking better

-Yeah be placing a buy in LGL cheaper the better

[AMR]

Short RAK at 4.28 stop at 437. In hindsight, maybe a bit early for a short.

Closed out yesterday at 4.19. RAK simply does not have enough liquidity for CFDs. So even though the stock fell 19c I only gained 11c due to the big spread.

[JBmurc]

Closed out yesterday at 4.19. RAK simply does not have enough liquidity for CFDs. So even though the stock fell 19c I only gained 11c due to the big spread.

RAK ?? is this on the ASX

-Well how much a 2 weeks in CFD Trading land can change you Capital-Currently UP 90% in those 10 trading days(would be even better had I not be down 40% on Cap. before hand)

-Sold 9000 AWE today leaving 18000 Longs-Great to see AWE finish on a high same again tomorrow would be great -Looks like the market is taking notice of AWE great Assets

-Went long LGL-386 -12000-Gold looks like it may increase overnite currently up $7 at 806oz
LGL look to have alittle short term support 3.80 in there current trend -maybe a good overnight profits 3.98 etc

-Also went short on-QAN-10000-5.84-nice to see a sell-off on close-with recent bad news on price fixing looks like QAN could lose more in court against business who were ripped off.
If only QAN didn't have there large Share buyback I'd be even more bearish-Target buyout 560's

[AMR]

RAK - Rakon on the NZX. I'm learning about ASX stocks, but for the moment I'm position trading NZX exclusively until I grasp the game. Wish I had taken this sort of caution when I was index trading.

[George]

JBM has highlighted an understated disadvantage with CFD's
- the cost of overnight holds. Buy 1000 WOW at say 30.00 cost
is 6.60. So hold for 7 days, not very long, and total cost on
sale will be $46 plus $20 brokerage.
A 10k ($300,000 worth) position would be $682!!!!
Sure you get paid for shorts but at about half what they charge
for longs. Am I missing something here?
Still considering CMC for small holdings over a week or two
at most.
George

[AMR]

Planned to short Contact energy (CEN) this morning on a pullback to the resistance of a completed double top last night however there was a big 17c spread so I couldn't get in safely. Behold, it falls that much this morning! Blardy illiquid NZX stocks!!

[JBmurc]

Currently got a short on HVN 709 target 689
had a long on ARQ 136 sold 146 for a nice profit
sold out for a small loss on lgl 378
overall happy with my CFD postions of recent

as for CWA warrants currently long- GOLD 825 MAY 08 exp.
closed my oil short for a 10% profit just in time(before price rise overnite)
looking at going bullish on silver feb exp.(short term)
Longer term like to go bearish DOW 14000 ish etc

[soulman]

JB, I believe you took a loss on KCN when you went long on them. Are you in disbelief of what is happening to KCN right this minute. Wow, the danger of investing, both CFD or normal trading. Although, if you were shorting KCN (which would be brilliant), I wonder what would happen if KCN never get re-instated again.

Of course, the lightlihood of KCN re-instated is very likely, I just wonder if you short a stock and the stock got suspended and then go to voluntary administration. What would happen to your trade even though you were right.

[JBmurc]

Yeah Can't really believe whats happening with KCN atm glad to sell 5.08c on the short term breakdown taking a good size loss which hasn't been to bad on the back of the AWE ,ARQ profits still if ya had brought KCN on recent selloff and at current bounce SP 50% easy.
Currently -Short HVN- 709 target 691-$100 per 1c downwards $1800 profit target

[George]

Hi JBM
On re-reading your post think I mis-interpreted what you said,
as you didn't say anything about interest charges, apologies.
Also, may have not got all the facts re costs of overnight holds as
there would also be costs with margin trading and time decay with
some warrants. So CFD's would not be any more costly than other
instruments and would be cheaper for 1-2 week trades.
Do you find that is the case? .
Thanks.

[JBmurc]

Hi JBM
On re-reading your post think I mis-interpreted what you said,
as you didn't say anything about interest charges, apologies.
Also, may have not got all the facts re costs of overnight holds as
there would also be costs with margin trading and time decay with
some warrants. So CFD's would not be any more costly than other
instruments and would be cheaper for 1-2 week trades.
Do you find that is the case? .
Thanks.

Yeah there certainly is alot of extra imfo needed in the Warrants Game personal I like CFD's better but am holding 2 Warrants currently giving them a go CWA who I use is very 1 on 1 with your own personal broker who keeps you up with the play
-I recently sold out of my Bear Crude oil warrant for a small profit even though I was lead to believe if I sold out at 85 I'd be making 80%+ profit-
ended up with 6% when oil the night I sold out OIL touched 85 then back to 90 I think he got me out round 87 sounds like because OIL was so volatile when i brought I paid a top price and if oil had falling within the first couple weeks I'd have made alot more.

Currently got 2 bull warrants in Silver -Short term- Gold Longer term (may 08 exp.)
will give warrants till mid next yr .

As for CFD's -Yet another great day

-Placed a buy on my HVN SHORT-691 which got filled $1500 profit +$300 day before

-Placed a buy for a LONG on CTO -43c -100,000-up 1c up $1000 got a sell at 44.5c hopefully another $500 tommrow.

Going be getting abit cockly if I keep up the good returns-Still got alot to make after the RIO mistake.

[soulman]

It seems when things are going good we do get cocky, that's only natural. But then, the market will teach you a lesson and you will get back to be more normal.

When you say you have $24K to go, what exactly do you mean?

I try to keep thing in perspective as the market teaches you lessons everyday and you do make mistake from time and again. I made 2 in the past 3 days.

I would have gave you a great tip on shorting SUN or IAG on Monday. It was unbelievable after the weekend hail storm and flood in Sydney that both coy went up on Monday and stable on Tuesday. Today SUN got their reckoning and down she goes. I got to have a shorting software set up in an opportunity like this.

[JBmurc]

with the 24k I mean 24k to break even in CFD's after my big RIO 30k loss(original cap 20k)
started with another 20k couple months back up 6k 24k to go to make back what i lost or 16k to cap invested in CFD's
(does sound bad still made 180k on 15k invested recently in property so easy go easy come)

As for the tips on- Short, longs post away -currently follow a handfull of stocks have spare funds in account waiting to take a position currently thinking Long ARQ 130's LGL,OGC-Short JBH,HVN etc may just chill till CTO sells hopefully tomorrow

[soulman]

Easy come, easy go....that sounds about right too for many people..

Just be careful shorting retailer in Dec (Christmas shopping period) as they may just go up everyday for that exact reason with no news.

[JBmurc]

Yeah for sure -Looking at getting back into an ARQ Long-at 140.5 Oil back up
----------Sold some CTO 44.5c


--Arq will ARC up if they announce a discovery at Valhalla 1.70 min.

Present Depth at 0600 hrs: 2405mMD
Time of Reporting: 0600 hrs, WST 13 December 2007
Operations Since Last
Report:
Resumed drilling from 1224m on 7th December and have
continued drilling with no problems to current depth of
2405mMD in the Upper Laurel Clastics.
Current Operations: Drilling ahead 216mm (8 ½”) hole to next target, Lower Laurel
Clastics.
Hydrocarbon indications: Elevated gas levels above background and associated minor oil
shows in cuttings were detected whilst drilling interbedded
sandstones and claystones of the Anderson Formation, and
interbedded limestones, claystones and sandstones of the
Fairfield Group. The significance of these indications will be
determined once the well has reached total depth and wireline
logging has been completed.
Comment: The continuing presence of oil and gas shows in the well
remains encouraging.

[JBmurc]

Not so good last couple weeks still bright future-Sold ARQ,CTO had a play in BHP lost out abit-



new longs NCM-Golds looking at staring it's next uptrend
STO-Made back half my recent losses going long overnite -sold out
ZFX-Far to cheap market will wake up very soon

[suntboy]

Hey JB
A bit of advice if I may
With the housing market the way it is I finally talked the wife into holding off and last week went long on LGL at 4.02 for quite a big amount.
Obviously beginners luck and the green numbers look good ... but should I close it out ...put in a short....do you have a strategy?
My basis for the buy was purely the gold factor but 150% profit in a week me thinks other than being lucky I am now over my head in terms of knowledge
Me being the punter I am I want to ride it , but wife?.....

[JBmurc]

Hey JB
A bit of advice if I may
With the housing market the way it is I finally talked the wife into holding off and last week went long on LGL at 4.02 for quite a big amount.
Obviously beginners luck and the green numbers look good ... but should I close it out ...put in a short....do you have a strategy?
My basis for the buy was purely the gold factor but 150% profit in a week me thinks other than being lucky I am now over my head in terms of knowledge
Me being the punter I am I want to ride it , but wife?.....

Take the profit mate I've lost alot being greedy with my CFD's today for one I went long WBC at close to its low at 2136 sold 1 hr later 2179 $440 profit some 30% profit on funds invested could have been greedy and held over night but with a massive sell off likely on the US markets I took the quick profits.
Personal stuntboy I'd be looking at going long on one of the many cheap energy&oil stocks Main reason gold companies like LGL and other miners costs must be rising alot and with the weakness in the USD gold hasn't really gone up as much in other currencys etc AUD
AWE 2.90s PSA 70s ARQ 1.05 etc look great longs on futher sell off tomorrow and once the analyst and broader market understands oil&energy is going to stay high and in tern factors these new oil prices into these companies things should change to the upside as most analyst have been working on $60bbl (and even at these prices the companies are cheap)
p.s -don't get me wrong GOLD is a great investment atm

[JBmurc]

Also if housing is anything like it is here locally don't touch yet there will be heaps of bargins over the next couple yrs wait till the papers are fill of forced sales and the loans rates are on the downturn could well save youself 10%+

[suntboy]

Cheers mate
Good enough for me
Ihold some ARC shares (obviously at a loss) and they prob will be my nxt long but just need to see them turn the corner
I aint tryin to pick the bottom(learnt that with PEM)
Wife is happy , our 3x1 is now a 4x2 with land