The Hydrogen economy

[Financially dependant]

I have been reading some about companies pushing for a hydrogen economy, this is completely opposite to the laws of Physics. What I have heard today I am now convinced that it does not even have any storage advantages.

Have a listern to this pod cast of Ulf Bossel, organizer of the Lucerne Fuel Cell Forum. Hydrogen expert!

http://canada.theoildrum.com/node/4077#more

and then Eden Energy's video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yqEHTiYxJo


Then make up your own minds.

[STRAT]

Its an interesting topic and at the end of the day all will be driven by money and who ends up with it in their pockets.

In terms of transport only, Electric/hybrid cars seem to be the way manufacturers are heading which in its self seems crazy to me. Selling these vehicles as cost effective and clean and green is a fallacy as long as grids of the world run on the likes of coal, oil etc. Energy loss through the entire process from say coal to the car is both bad for the environment and the worlds wallet.
How anyone can get warm fuzzies from driving an electic car when they are plugging into a coal/fossil fuel generated grid is beyond me and defies logic. I guess as long as its good for someones wallet it will go ahead. The world has bought into a lot of BS lately and there is plenty to be found in hot topics such as Y2k, Peak Oil, Bio Fuel, Global Warming etc etc

Sorry for going off topic slightly. Guess my point is electric cars are BS and Hydrogen going by that article even more so.

[seaosh]

Don't know I quite agree Strat.

Hybrids seem an excellent idea to me and I drive one myself. Things like the Prius do not plug in to the grid unless you modify them to do so. They just store energy from braking and use it to provide power. So basically they are just utilizing something that would otherwise be wasted to reduce oil consumption. Seems a sensible technology. It doesn't solve the problem but it is a step in the right direction.

You have a point about plug-ins. That said, at least the concept gives us more flexibility in how we power our transport. The problem then becomes one of how to generate electricity cheaply and without depleting non-renewable resources. That may be an easier problem to solve than figuring out how to find renewable fuels for fuel burning vehicles.

[STRAT]

Don't know I quite agree Strat.

Hybrids seem an excellent idea to me and I drive one myself. Things like the Prius do not plug in to the grid unless you modify them to do so. They just store energy from braking and use it to provide power. So basically they are just utilizing something that would otherwise be wasted to reduce oil consumption. Seems a sensible technology. It doesn't solve the problem but it is a step in the right direction.

You have a point about plug-ins. That said, at least the concept gives us more flexibility in how we power our transport. The problem then becomes one of how to generate electricity cheaply and without depleting non-renewable resources. That may be an easier problem to solve than figuring out how to find renewable fuels for fuel burning vehicles.

Hi Seaosh,

re your car and utilization of lost energy. Totally agree. but as long as electric cars are hybrids they are not a solution.

As to the grids of the world, Nuclear seems the logical answer except for the obvious problems like how to dispose of waste and more important who do we entrust this task to. Of course it makes sense on paper and will do until there are accidents and meltdowns. I sure wouldnt want to live within 10,000 miles of one.

[FarmerGeorge]

Coincidentally I am about half way through a book called 'The Long Emergency' which discusses some of these very issues. I recommend it to anyone looking for an interesting perspective on just how likely we are to be living in anything like our current conditions in twenty or thirty years time, using any kind of alternative fuel. It is fairly US-centric in it's view but the conclusions have implications for all of us.

[seaosh]

I'm optimistic that solar will eventually be a big part of the solution.

Biofuels grown from algae also have big potential and won't interfere with food crops.

In the short to medium term of course oil will keep going higher.

[shasta]

I'm optimistic that solar will eventually be a big part of the solution.

Biofuels grown from algae also have big potential and won't interfere with food crops.

In the short to medium term of course oil will keep going higher.

I'm surprised no one so far has picked up on Landfill Gas...:confused:

Already a highly profitable alternative

[The Big Ease]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8stApCmxYEM

i dunno how scientifically thorough this doco is, but it looks interesting.
the inventor died after working with nasa for some time to perfect the technology. some say under mysterious circumstances.

also look into something called fusion energy. there is an excellent university lecture by an aussie on itunes around fusion energy. amazing stuff.

[Grand Uber]

I watched a couple of docos on stan myer just the other day, quite interesting stuff. One of my mates is currently trying to create the hydrogen cylinder that he designed and ran his car on. Did you see he said he was offered $1billion by the arabs to stop his study, he rejected it, then he died.

I would say as long as there is big money to be made in oil, we will not see any alternatives

[The Big Ease]

i heard that GB, but havent read of it.
he was convicted of fraud relating to his technology, but given the circumstances surrounding it, i would say that would be a highly dubious outcome.

[Financially dependant]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8stApCmxYEM

i dunno how scientifically thorough this doco is, but it looks interesting.
the inventor died after working with nasa for some time to perfect the technology. some say under mysterious circumstances.

also look into something called fusion energy. there is an excellent university lecture by an aussie on itunes around fusion energy. amazing stuff.

This is a spoof!

There is no free lunch, the amount of energy to separate hydrogen from water is huge.

[STRAT]

This is a spoof!

There is no free lunch, the amount of energy to separate hydrogen from water is huge.Just as well too or we would all be afraid to drink water :eek:

[Financially dependant]

This is more realistic, solar-hydrogen-methane....

Large concentrated solar farms in Oz next to gas pipelines.

http://stevegloor.typepad.com/sgloor/2004/09/the_methane_eco.html