PDA

View Full Version : We the Sheeple



Capitalist
18-06-2004, 01:17 PM
A good article from O'Herald about herd mentality...(emphasis mine)


The ups and downs of being a lemming

18.06.2004
COMMENT
Fear of losing money isn't the only emotion that bedevils people when they invest for growth.

Another big bugaboo is the impulse to seek the comfort of the herd. While that may be a subtler problem, it is no less troublesome.

No, no, you may say, investors don't huddle together for protection. They compete fiercely with one another.

Too often that image doesn't square with reality. Group-think, or crowd psychology, runs rampant in investing decisions of all kinds.

What prompts these thoughts is a comment on "the retirement imperative" in money manager Thomas Au's new book, A Modern Approach to Graham & Dodd Investing.

"Whether they recognise it or not, many people are concerned that their investments will give them a similar lifestyle and retirement as their friends or some other reference group," says 46-year-old Au. "Thus, if a person's family and friends are all buying technology or internet stocks, it is a rare individual who will not be similarly invested ...

"A similar rule applies to a group of people who all have most of their assets invested in their company's stock.

"If such investments prosper, terrific! If not, 'misery loves company'."

For professional investors, straying too far from the pack is not something to be lightly done - not when investment committees, pension consultants and other evaluators are so prone to judging the results a manager achieves against peer-group norms or market indexes.

Sure, the system says, beat the index if you can. Just don't stray too far from it, either above or below.

"There is a tendency to invest with the pack because it is safer," wrote Bob Litterman, director of quantitative resources at Goldman, Sachs in a commentary aimed at investing institutions.

Understandable as this urge may be, it glorifies mediocrity.

And when individuals, wishing to learn from the pros, get entangled in relative-performance thinking, the results can be downright ridiculous.

"What are your objectives?" I once asked an investor who had asked me to recommend a few good mutual funds.

"I don't know," was the reply. "To beat the S&P 500, I guess."

For individuals who need only answer to themselves, that makes no sense. As long as you aren't being paid on the basis of relative performance, index beating is of very little benefit.

The main motives for such thinking are emotional, not financial - to appear smart or to avoid looking foolish.

Au points out that one of the most famous of all crowd followers in nature, the lemming, may pursue the herd instinct to the death.

Lemmings are rodents legendary for "periodic mass migrations that sometimes end in drowning", in the words of the American Heritage Dictionary.

This self-destructive behaviour has a payoff, says Au.

"Every lemming who dives into the ocean gets to retire in the same style as every other lemming who does the same."

The lemming that doesn't go along with the crowd makes a choice that isn't so easy - staying around to face the cold tundra alone.

Likewise in the market, where avoiding the madness of the masses may take more courage than is generally acknowledged.
So how does one apply all this to fund investing?

Instead of buying what others are buying, Au suggests, "choose a style that is compatible with your temperament as well as your investment objectives".

That takes some knowledge and skill. To help acquire that skill, Au offers a worthy suggestion.

"All but the busiest investors should manage at least a portion of their own portfolio, to get a taste of the business of investment, thereby learning what a mutual fund manager or an adviser can or cannot do."

Ah yes, knowledge born of experience. It might be useful in figuring out how not to get trampled running with the herd.

- BLOOMBERG

willy_wonker
18-06-2004, 01:28 PM
A psychologist is more qualify than a finance/economics graduate.

Halebop
18-06-2004, 02:35 PM
I work with a couple of psychologists and they both avoid share investing in particular. One because he's a socialist and doesn't believe in it - what the furk!? On questioning he thinks the little guys always lose and he resents the notions of lining the pockets of the big guys. 'Course, he charges out his services to the "big guys" at between $500 and $1,000 per hour.

This is pretty much the same as the other guy who has obviously worked out why the little guys can sometimes line the pockets of the big guys - he knows he would fall in line with the crowd in no time and suffer for it (he did back in 1987 and hasn't been back in the market since).

I decided long ago to question what people and companies said even if I agreed with them. A little bit of contrarian thinking goes a long way towards protecting and growing your wealth. Thats why you'll usually see me happily arguing for or against the merits of companies in spite of the weight of "public opinion".

Capitalist
18-06-2004, 04:14 PM
quote:Originally posted by Halebop
I decided long ago to question what people and companies said even if I agreed with them. A little bit of contrarian thinking goes a long way towards protecting and growing your wealth. Thats why you'll usually see me happily arguing for or against the merits of companies in spite of the weight of "public opinion".



Absolutely. A little contrarian thinking is especially important these days with all the irrational pessimism (the new ideology of the West) that abounds. When everyone says it is all going to hell in a handbasket, that is when the market turns up. It happens every time. Same with exchange rates, oil etc..it isn't rocket science but so few seem to take advantage of group psychology before the herd whirls and turns.

Gryffyn
18-06-2004, 04:24 PM
So on a contrarian note WHS would be the buy right now?

thereslifeafter87
18-06-2004, 05:01 PM
theres contrarian, then theres failure to acknowledge the painfully obvious.

zyreon
18-06-2004, 05:03 PM
I have WHS as a long term stalwart in my portfolio (i.e. over the long, well more likely medium term I expect it to increase, rather than decrease by any measurable amount)

but then again I am speaking from an interested perspective

Capitalist
18-06-2004, 08:37 PM
quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

So on a contrarian note WHS would be the buy right now?


No, it most definitely is not a buy for the retail investor right now. It probably won't be for another 12 months. Contrarian = rational, not idiot :D

Stock Man
18-06-2004, 09:13 PM
I love the topic....;)

Rgds

Capitalist
18-06-2004, 09:20 PM
So do I-- my hero Lindsay Perigo coined the term several years ago. This is a bit OT but WTF...

Lindsay Perigo: -- A (Revised) Sermon From The Mount

Blessed are the poor in spirit - when they become rich in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of earth.

Blessed are they who mourn - when they get over it.

Blessed are the meek - when they become self-confident, for then they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they which do hunger & thirst after rights - when they do something about it, for then they shall become free.

Blessed are the merciful - when they learn to discriminate, for then they shall obtain justice.

Blessed are the pure in heart, since they must have been using their brains.

Blessed are the peacemakers - when they learn that it doesn't come at any price.

Blessed are ye when men shall revile you & persecute you & shall say all manner of evil against you falsely - when those men are Jim Anderton & Helen Clark.

Blessed are the rational, the independent, the honest, the productive, the just, the proud - for theirs is the glory of man.

Rejoice, & be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward on earth - when you have earned it.

Ye are the salt of the earth - but if the salt has lost its savour, wherewith shall it be salted? If ye become as sheeple, ye shall be trodden under the feet of politicians & bureaucrats.

Be ye instead the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid.

Do not hide your light under a bushel, but let it so shine before men that they may see your vision of reason & freedom, & glorify it, & bring it to pass on earth

clearasmud
18-06-2004, 11:36 PM
As Ron Brierly is supposed to have said:Value is where you find it.The market often soon catches up.
A secret is to look slightly over the horison to measure future value.
Reduce shares that are fully valued.
Keep away from dodgy management unless they are being replaced.
Be mean when it comes to buying
There is more than one game in town and you can play all of them if you want to.

Greetings from a non-seasoned F/T player who's making good money so far.

BTW IMO reduce WHS its currently o/priced.