How to become a successful Day Trader

[sudds]

Thinking of quitting the job and becoming a day trader. Who here is doing this and what advice can you give. :scared:

[JBmurc]

Thinking of quitting the job and becoming a day trader. Who here is doing this and what advice can you give. :scared:

Keep your day job

[sudds]

Keep your day job

Nope bored of it and its time to do something different. Had 2 successful businesses and want a bit of adverture!

[Paper Tiger]

Nope bored of it and its time to do something different. Had 2 successful businesses and want a bit of adverture!

Travel the world for a while

[winner69]

Seriously mate don't even contemplate it -- a view based on your posts. Asking what spreads are and being hooked on Wellington Drive doesn't seem good credentials to take on day trading for a living

You sound like more of a gambler to me .... take Tigers advice and travel the world ....... and have a go at the casinos in all the places you visit

This what you want eh - no boring job and a big adventure and make zillions in the process

[Dr_Who]

Keep your day job

JBmurc and other wise posters on here are right.

You need to pay your tuition fees and feel alot of pain before you will experience any gains. The market is not a casino and shouldnt be treated as one unless you have alot of cash to throw around and dont mind losing it.

[Phaedrus]

http://www.crbtrader.com/trader/v09n01/v09n01a01.asp
Sudds, the above article is one of the best I have read on this subject and I agree with most everything the author says. Read it carefully - though I doubt that you will like it very much.

At one stage, I devoted a lot of time and effort to day trading and was (eventually) able to run at a profit. According to statistics quoted in the above article, I was one of the small minority (only 8%) that succeed at day trading but by my lights it was a failure, in that I was not able to make enough money consistently enough to make an adequate living from it.

My bet is that you will not want to take any advice at all from old farts like us. You will want to get out there and try your hand, and will not be content until you, too, have made your contribution to the usual 92%/98% "failure" rate. My advice is don't even think about it, but it's too late for that - you already have! As evidenced by the very low success rate, day trading is by far the toughest trading arena. To start out there is madness. If you really do want to have a crack at it, at least delay your entry until you have learnt enough to make good consistent profits from longer term trading.

Good luck - you will need it!

[JBmurc]

Nope bored of it and its time to do something different. Had 2 successful businesses and want a bit of adverture!
Only expert traders with no debts an no ties(kids,rent,interest payments) an penalty of spare cash they can afford to lose should IMHO have a go at day trading which usually means your get into leverage products CFD shorts & longs 5% down 95% leverage-----Warrants ----Futures---Options all great day trader products great for making one feel like gordan geeko one day the next like a bum that just lost everthing at the casino.....

I've personal had a go at the above leverage products because like yourself I had dreams of becoming a day trader(I'm lucky my job gives me 150-200days off per yr) I learnt pretty quick
#1-Its very stressful-
#2-you have to spend so much more time in front of the computer so much more time involved
#3-the guys that sell the leverage products make by far the most out of it.
#4-stop losses don't aways work
#5-one wrong decision can wipe out 3+ good ones
After taking the losses on the nose from my day trading I got back to Fundamental long term shares & share opts
In no time I'd made back my day trading losses....-If you reckon you've got the stuff to be a Day trader do run a thread on sharetrader --be very interesting how you do

[ENP]

Go for it. If it doesn't work out just go back to what you were doing. Maybe you will lose some money. Life is too short to wonder... "what if"

But why don't you just switch your work week around so you take 2-3 weekdays off when the market is open and work weekends when the market is closed?

It's like having a mince pie, the sauce and eating it too :D

[bull....]

I sucessfully day trade and invest as my full time day job and some times night job lol but beware day trading is extremely challenging and the transaction costs continually test my patience for this endeavour.
I suggest learn to invest successfully for the long term then try your hand at day trading.
Ive found a good mix is have some good long term shares and keep some cash to day trade those irrational market days which seem to occur quite a bit now.

[h2so4]

Yeah. Stuff it, do what you want, thats what life is about. In 9 months time you will be an expert.:)

[777]

The main problem is finding enough liquid stocks to trade on the NZX. I have tried with mixed success and have now gone back to just investing. If you are hell bent on doing it sudds then look at doing it on the Australian market using an Australian on line broker. Best of luck.

[CJ]

This is the only way:
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/17/2010/02/500x_4388294594_5317daec19_b.jpg

Note: there are more, they just didn't fit into one photo:

http://lifehacker.com/5481921/the-day-traders-paradise

[ENP]

This is the only way:
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/17/2010/02/500x_4388294594_5317daec19_b.jpg

Note: there are more, they just didn't fit into one photo:

http://lifehacker.com/5481921/the-day-traders-paradise

Haha that's awesome!

[upside_umop]

Keep your day job

Best advice I've ever seen you give.

[peat]

i wouldnt recommend it. tho in fact I have recently given up my job , but not to trade (anymore than I used to)

given it would appear you dont have too much background , spend time each day researching - its your job now after all!
have a method
identify how much you're prepared to lose in each trade - dont focus on potential profits - its not going to work if you want a get rich quick scheme, even if you do have a few big wins sooner or later you'll crash and burn
cut losses pretty quickly , let profits run.
check out www.chartpattern.com (http://www.chartpattern.com) this guy turned 10k into 42million in 18mths so he must know something, and he has a two week free trial which I checked out for a few days he was making some good recommendations for day trades (US stocks). Even just reading the free stuff on his website will give you some good starters.

good luck - let us know how you go.... start some threads on trade ideas etc.

[sudds]

Travel the world for a while

Been there done that too. Lived in London most of my live - just a few places left to visit that I really want to but hey have to leave something for my later life :)

[sudds]

Seriously mate don't even contemplate it -- a view based on your posts. Asking what spreads are and being hooked on Wellington Drive doesn't seem good credentials to take on day trading for a living

You sound like more of a gambler to me .... take Tigers advice and travel the world ....... and have a go at the casinos in all the places you visit

This what you want eh - no boring job and a big adventure and make zillions in the process

Nope don't judge me too easily.

I try and do what it takes even if it means going back to school. Of course I am a gambler why else would I be buying and selling shares. All form of gambling eh.

No don't want to make zillions just enough.

I intend to put a 10% stop loss to even things out and also have a diverse portfolio, some for dividents and some for profits. I will look into companies as much as possible. May consider ASX more gains there than here - only after researches etc. I have a One Answer account with ING where I have shares in there that are being held and can sell at any one time, however, I just have some money to play with on a daily basis.

Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards :)

[Footsie]

You don't need 10 screens, you don't need to be good at maths, you dont even need to understand what it is the company you are trading does.

However. You do need from the market
1) liquidity
2) volatility
3)low brokerage of 0.1%

from yourself
1) Minimum $30-$40k to start trading
2) a good work ethic. You will need to spend 3-4 hrs doing research each day before the open and stay in front of your screen the whole time the market is open. THIS IS NO WALK IN THE PARK. YOU NEED TO WORK HARD
3) Discipline, Discipline, Discipline.
4) you are not right, the market is right.
4) a plan. What are you going to trade. How and why. STICK TO THE PLAN

If you don't have all of the above ingredients. YOU WILL FAIL.

This is my lot, But I would not recommend it as a career choice. Every day you run the gauntlet.
Sleep like a baby? that's about to change. Welcome to sleepless nights, hair loss and waking up every fricking day and the first thing on yuor mind is. What has the DOW done while i slept.

[Hoop]

Nope don't judge me too easily.

I try and do what it takes even if it means going back to school. Of course I am a gambler why else would I be buying and selling shares. All form of gambling eh........

Regards :)

Oh...deary me....
Life's a gamble...a gamblers life a much bigger gamble..expect tears.

[Paper Tiger]

Been there done that too. Lived in London most of my live - just a few places left to visit that I really want to but hey have to leave something for my later life :)

You have my deepest sympathies. :(

[sudds]

http://www.crbtrader.com/trader/v09n01/v09n01a01.asp
Sudds, the above article is one of the best I have read on this subject and I agree with most everything the author says. Read it carefully - though I doubt that you will like it very much.

At one stage, I devoted a lot of time and effort to day trading and was (eventually) able to run at a profit. According to statistics quoted in the above article, I was one of the small minority (only 8%) that succeed at day trading but by my lights it was a failure, in that I was not able to make enough money consistently enough to make an adequate living from it.

My bet is that you will not want to take any advice at all from old farts like us. You will want to get out there and try your hand, and will not be content until you, too, have made your contribution to the usual 92%/98% "failure" rate. My advice is don't even think about it, but it's too late for that - you already have! As evidenced by the very low success rate, day trading is by far the toughest trading arena. To start out there is madness. If you really do want to have a crack at it, at least delay your entry until you have learnt enough to make good consistent profits from longer term trading.

Good luck - you will need it!

Thank you much appreciated.:)

[sudds]

You don't need 10 screens, you don't need to be good at maths, you dont even need to understand what it is the company you are trading does.

However. You do need from the market
1) liquidity
2) volatility
3)low brokerage of 0.1%

from yourself
1) Minimum $30-$40k to start trading
2) a good work ethic. You will need to spend 3-4 hrs doing research each day before the open and stay in front of your screen the whole time the market is open. THIS IS NO WALK IN THE PARK. YOU NEED TO WORK HARD
3) Discipline, Discipline, Discipline.
4) you are not right, the market is right.
4) a plan. What are you going to trade. How and why. STICK TO THE PLAN

If you don't have all of the above ingredients. YOU WILL FAIL.

This is my lot, But I would not recommend it as a career choice. Every day you run the gauntlet.
Sleep like a baby? that's about to change. Welcome to sleepless nights, hair loss and waking up every fricking day and the first thing on yuor mind is. What has the DOW done while i slept.

Thanks, I will survive, the only way is up from here! I know it sounds good, too good, if only but I will stick with it if it gets me motivated:)

[JBmurc]

Nope don't judge me too easily.

I try and do what it takes even if it means going back to school. Of course I am a gambler why else would I be buying and selling shares. All form of gambling eh.

No don't want to make zillions just enough.

I intend to put a 10% stop loss to even things out and also have a diverse portfolio, some for dividents and some for profits. I will look into companies as much as possible. May consider ASX more gains there than here - only after researches etc. I have a One Answer account with ING where I have shares in there that are being held and can sell at any one time, however, I just have some money to play with on a daily basis.

Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards :)


-Day trading refers to the practice of buying and selling financial instruments within the same trading day such that all positions are usually closed before the market close for the trading day. Traders that participate in day trading are called active traders or day traders.---------------------------------------------

by what your saying it sounds more like you want to be a share trader like myself an others which means your get your accountant to setup a company -sudds trading ltd etc(because as a trader you will pay tax or claim&carry tax losses forward)
You then need to setup in your company's name -bank accounts-Broker account(I use E*Trade)and if your going trade on the ASX ,you need to set-up Foreign Currency account(I use ASB Treasury & financial private bank dealers)

then after awhile of trading if you want more leverage you borrow some money from the bank ,investors etc which your have to pay a interest rate on As I have land debt free(An hopefully soon a house as well)I can use this as equity currently I have 250k loaned

[foodee]

Nope don't judge me too easily.

I try and do what it takes even if it means going back to school. Of course I am a gambler why else would I be buying and selling shares. All form of gambling eh.

No don't want to make zillions just enough.

I intend to put a 10% stop loss to even things out and also have a diverse portfolio, some for dividents and some for profits. I will look into companies as much as possible. May consider ASX more gains there than here - only after researches etc. I have a One Answer account with ING where I have shares in there that are being held and can sell at any one time, however, I just have some money to play with on a daily bas



Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards :)"

No advise from me - many wise heads have posted already.
As a suggestion you might care to read:-
'Taming the Lion' by Richard Farleigh - he is not a day trader but.....

Cheers & good luck!

[CJ]

...and also have a diverse portfolio, some for dividends and some for profits. Are you trading or investing??

Have you considered CFDs. they are a great way to leverage up and lose lots of money fast (or make money if you are successful).

[Dr_Who]

Thanks, I will survive, the only way is up from here! I know it sounds good, too good, if only but I will stick with it if it gets me motivated:)

Oh dear, oh dear.

[upside_umop]

You don't need 10 screens, you don't need to be good at maths

Isn't this how most traders on wall street operate?

Mostly just covariance matrices, scouting for arbitrage.

[sudds]

Are you trading or investing??

Have you considered CFDs. they are a great way to leverage up and lose lots of money fast (or make money if you are successful).

I have registered with them and taking up their seminars etc at the moment get some kind of understanding of it - but yes I know I will only be trading with money I can afford to lose and when thats gone - well thats it for CFDs. I have allocated a set amount for day trading and CFDs etc. Here is hoping!

[Shrewd Crude]

yeah Phaedrus,
when it comes to giving advice it doesnt matter what I tell the other person...
Im sure they believe me, they just need to trial it out for themselves...
I was the same, but lucky I went in with the right foundations/ideas...

the first rules I ever set was..
1) dont buy blue chips, dont buy large capped stocks...

and I have stuck to that to this day...

sudds..
give it a go... why not... BUT BE DISCIPLINED...
start the first week paper trading and record everything...
If you turn a profit in your first week of paper trading, then allocate more funds, and increase your positions as you perform...

dont tell sudds not to do it... that will make him want to do it even more...;)
:cool:
.^sc

[dsurf]

Sudds can you answer the following questions? If not back to the boring job & take up skydiving at weekends:

What markets / instruments
what % return
How many tades per day
Average loss you expect
average win you expect
size of initial capital
% or $ or amount per trade

etc etc

Sounds like fun tho & I am expecting the copper ( not gold ) handshake soon so might have a go myself. Why limit your profits to one day tho

[belgarion]

Thinking of quitting the job and becoming a day trader. Who here is doing this and what advice can you give. :scared:

Absolutely think you should do this sudds. The more you contribute of your hard earned dosh the more there'll be for us long term holders.

[shasta]

You don't need 10 screens, you don't need to be good at maths, you dont even need to understand what it is the company you are trading does.

However. You do need from the market
1) liquidity
2) volatility
3)low brokerage of 0.1%

from yourself
1) Minimum $30-$40k to start trading
2) a good work ethic. You will need to spend 3-4 hrs doing research each day before the open and stay in front of your screen the whole time the market is open. THIS IS NO WALK IN THE PARK. YOU NEED TO WORK HARD
3) Discipline, Discipline, Discipline.
4) you are not right, the market is right.
4) a plan. What are you going to trade. How and why. STICK TO THE PLAN

If you don't have all of the above ingredients. YOU WILL FAIL.

This is my lot, But I would not recommend it as a career choice. Every day you run the gauntlet.
Sleep like a baby? that's about to change. Welcome to sleepless nights, hair loss and waking up every fricking day and the first thing on yuor mind is. What has the DOW done while i slept.

Sudds

If you insist on this seemingly kamakaze approach, then Footsie's comments are a great start, alot of great advice already that is to put you off, & i can only agree with it all, if it were that easy to make money we'd all be doing it!

I would thoroughly recommend you write out your "plan" & do not deviate from it to start with

Perhaps trial it on a limited amount, say $10k

If you are losing money on trades go & review back & see where the mistakes were made, & amend the plan accordingly.

You really need to write down exactly how you intend to go about trading, to remove ALL emotion out of the decisions to buy/sell.

Good luck cos you will need it competing against the experienced TA chartists in the market!

[brucey09]

Hello senor Shasta
Where is et that you get commission 1%. thank you.

[Shrewd Crude]

Shasta,
I would be interested in seeing your plan...

How many stocks would you day trade?
would you stick to a handful of stocks...?
would you day trade stocks you hadnt researched, and just went on TA?
Would you trade on what the DOW does...?
:cool:
.^sc

[airedale]

Hi Sudds, 34 replies to your query in 18 hours. You have got lots of interest and advice. Strange that you have posted on the NZX thread, I would have thought that the ASX would be where the action is....or even the US exchanges. Do you need to have the ability to go short when day trading? The NZX is not that place. Good luck anyway.

[shasta]

Shasta,
I would be interested in seeing your plan...

How many stocks would you day trade?
would you stick to a handful of stocks...?
would you day trade stocks you hadnt researched, and just went on TA?
Would you trade on what the DOW does...?
:cool:
.^sc

Shrewd

I can happily admit day trading would never be for me, i use fundamentals to decide what i would invest in, & yes i do have a list of criteria which i refer to.

But we are all different in our style so while parts of my list may help others, i believe the exercise is something we should each do for ourselves to reflect our risk tolerance & approach.

I try to utilise TA along with my FA, but as im out of the market at present i don't have any examples

[Serpie]

Good for you for starting the forum and sticking your head on the block Sudds.

My advice would be to keep the day job, but become an active trader using a longer time frame, perhaps around 3 - 10 days. That way you dont need to be glued to your screen during the day, and you can see if you're any good.

If you're making too much money trading then chuck the job in. If you're not then dont.

[duncan macgregor]

It all boils down to mathematics where the law of averages applies. The average day trader will lose money in a flat market. The average investor buying shares gains or loses money plus dividends accordng to the market trend. The above average gambler, trader, or investor will make money in any market. The idea is to paper trade to find out if you are above average and if not leave it well alone. Macdunk

[sudds]

Thanks everyone so far for your advice much appreciated

[The BOWMAN]

Hey, I think we all needs to be a bit open minded. Sounded like sudds has already got a good steady stream of income even without doing any day time job. So why can't he have some fun of being a day trader as long as he controls his maximum daily loss to acceptable level? Go ahead buddy and keep us posted about your success/failure rate. However just a reminder again that limit your volumn.

[sudds]

Hey, I think we all needs to be a bit open minded. Sounded like sudds has already got a good steady stream of income even without doing any day time job. So why can't he have some fun of being a day trader as long as he controls his maximum daily loss to acceptable level? Go ahead buddy and keep us posted about your success/failure rate. However just a reminder again that limit your volumn.

Thanks. Yes I have a stream of income and can still eat if I lose some cash. It came with hardwork, luck and a good head hopefully I will continue the good head thing with my day trading. Will keep you posted on here how things are going.

[CJ]

Thanks. Yes I have a stream of income and can still eat if I lose some cash. Why day trading. why not a longer time frame?

If you have a stream of income, shouldn't you be looking for something to supplement that but which doesn't require you to spend 4am-5pm in front of the computer 5 days a week?

[Footsie]

paper trading is a waste of time.... its not the real thing... if you are going to do it. just get stuck in. Everybody makes money papertrading

[sudds]

paper trading is a waste of time.... its not the real thing... if you are going to do it. just get stuck in. Everybody makes money papertrading

So true I am not worried about falling off the bike - I know I have to get some bruises along the way. Hopefully will limit those bruises and quit while I am ahead :)

[bull....]

Agree paper trading is not the way to learn , you need to experience markets in real time and as they say pay your tuition fee.
Dont even think of attempting day trading unless you can do it full time and be able to put in lots of hard work and long hours but on the plus side your the boss , you can work when you like.

[Phaedrus]

Personally, I really struggle to paper trade and can never manage to do it for very long. I just can't wait to get stuck in and tryout my ideas using actual $$$. This is evidence of impatience and impetuosity - character flaws that are real handicaps for anyone trying to maximise their market profits.

The most successful trader I know spent a full 2 years paper trading, perfecting his system. When he began actual trading, he was very, very profitable indeed, right from day 1. No expensive learning curve there! Try convincing him that paper trading is a waste of time!

[minimoke]

I intend to .. have a diverse portfolio, some for dividents
Theres a clue there. How about this for an option. I can help save some of those bruises - simply send me your cash and I'll guarantee you just as good a return if not better than you'll get on the track you are planning on taking. If you really don't mind the bruises, send getr alaon or rally extend yourself and sendme your cash - I'm pretty sure I could arrange to get you some bruises - and still leave you just a good financial position you're liekly to achieve.

But heres an idea. NZ market is about to open. Heres $20,000. Where do you put your opening bids?

[sudds]

Theres a clue there. How about this for an option. I can help save some of those bruises - simply send me your cash and I'll guarantee you just as good a return if not better than you'll get on the track you are planning on taking. If you really don't mind the bruises, send getr alaon or rally extend yourself and sendme your cash - I'm pretty sure I could arrange to get you some bruises - and still leave you just a good financial position you're liekly to achieve.

But heres an idea. NZ market is about to open. Heres $20,000. Where do you put your opening bids?

AIR would be my guess today. Would have done it first thing this morning:)

[sudds]

Here is one. My first share whilst learning and in profit. Selling no question, could buy back in if need be at a later stage. My WDT in profit by $600.

[Silverlight]

I agree with Phaedrus, that paper trading is very hard to do without wanting to actually try it for real, however I think this is very very revealing about your own emotions that get put into day trading.

Having enough discipline to take seriously your strategy and trade it profitably in paper trading first will mean that you will be successful when you put real money on the line.

Day traders who don't have the discipline to paper trade their strategy first are not liekly to have discipline to accept small profits when risking only 1 -2% in each trade.

[bull....]

How can paper trading be the same as putting your money on the line it cant , by all means have a plan and back test it or what ever but the emotions that you will experience risking your real money will be far different than just having it on paper.

Thats why the most profitable mechanical system on the planet could be given to 10 people who would in real time all end up with different end results.

[minimoke]

AIR would be my guess today. Would have done it first thing this morning:)
OK - lets run with this then. (and we'll give you the benifit of the doubt since AIR was up 2.1% to $1.43 by 10.26am) Opened at $1.42 so thats 14,084 shares and brokerage of $29.90 for the first $15k and $10 for the other $5,000k. Let us know when you sell.

[sudds]

OK - lets run with this then. (and we'll give you the benifit of the doubt since AIR was up 2.1% to $1.43 by 10.26am) Opened at $1.42 so thats 14,084 shares and brokerage of $29.90 for the first $15k and $10 for the other $5,000k. Let us know when you sell.

I will sell at the end of the day or during the interim sometime as I see fit, with or without profit, as this share is near what its worth so not worth holding on to. My aim is to not be greedy and hopefully any profit may balance out some loss - always reviewing of course. :)

[minimoke]

I will sell at the end of the day or during the interim sometime as I see fit, with or without profit, as this share is near what its worth so not worth holding on to. My aim is to not be greedy and hopefully any profit may balance out some loss - always reviewing of course. :)
Umm - I think I have this right. You've bought a fully valued share and you are already planing on sell at a loss? (its at $1.44 at teh moment youre up $0.02 gross if you sell now)

[JBmurc]

I will sell at the end of the day or during the interim sometime as I see fit, with or without profit, as this share is near what its worth so not worth holding on to. My aim is to not be greedy and hopefully any profit may balance out some loss - always reviewing of course. :)

I'll be very suprised if you make much as a day trader on the NZX ---BHP trades more value than the entire NZX most days

[sudds]

Umm - I think I have this right. You've bought a fully valued share and you are already planing on sell at a loss? (its at $1.44 at teh moment youre up $0.02 gross if you sell now)

But I am a day trader - I will hold stocks but this in not one I want to hold at the moment at this price - also looking into ASX and will trade once I have done some research.

[sudds]

Assuming I make enough to pay the $80 fees and walk away with $100-$200 profit I am happy as a beginner. :) I will get better as I go hopefully.

[JBmurc]

Assuming I make enough to pay the $80 fees and walk away with $100-$200 profit I am happy as a beginner. :) I will get better as I go hopefully.

so your not planning on holding any shares longer than a day

[sudds]

so your not planning on holding any shares longer than a day

Thats depends on the share - don't really think AIR is one I want to hold and as a day trader will sell any time even if its just 2 hours.

[JBmurc]

Thats depends on the share - don't really think AIR is one I want to hold and as a day trader will sell any time even if its just 2 hours.

Well i guess as long as you not using much money it shouldn't be too bad on the NZX still not likely to make much once the commisons are changed plus as your day trading your be up for TAX ,when I traded CFD's I would sometimes have positions up upwards to 500k with only 10k down with that leverage you could make or lose 500-1000 during the day quite easy

[minimoke]

Assuming I make enough to pay the $80 fees and walk away with $100-$200 profit I am happy as a beginner. :) I will get better as I go hopefully.
Not today by the look of it. You would have closed out selling at $1.42 or a loss of $79.90. But that can go against your tax for future earnings. If you'd timed it right and sold at the days high you would have grossed $201 - but you missed the opportunity instead waiting for the end of the day hoping no doubt for a rebound that never came.

We probably need to look at your opportunity cost as well. If you were wanting a bit of excitement you could have worked at Maca's for $12.75 and made $102 gross plus a couple of bucks if you'd left the money in the bank.

Want to play again tomorrow?

[bung5]

Not today by the look of it. You would have closed out selling at $1.42 or a loss of $79.90. But that can go against your tax for future earnings. If you'd timed it right and sold at the days high you would have grossed $201 - but you missed the opportunity instead waiting for the end of the day hoping no doubt for a rebound that never came.

We probably need to look at your opportunity cost as well. If you were wanting a bit of excitement you could have worked at Maca's for $12.75 and made $102 gross plus a couple of bucks if you'd left the money in the bank.

Want to play again tomorrow?

Yes lets play with PGW :P

[minimoke]

Yes lets play with PGW :P
Since its Sudds money (all $19,920) perhaps we should let him bid first. But if not then whats your bid for PGW - it closed at $0.56

[bung5]

Since its Sudds money (all $19,920) perhaps we should let him bid first. But if not then whats your bid for PGW - it closed at $0.56

just looked at the depth. not so sure

[minimoke]

Very wise little grasshopper. There was only $0.01 in it today. edit - and today your trade would have accounted for 26% of volume (say 13% going in and 13% leaving)

[elZorro]

Sudds - you should go into advertising, or journalism. Your thread is wildly popular! Great headline. :)

My advice is to do everything the opposite of me: when I pick a share it generally goes south :t_down: while I'm parking my money in it for a day or two, and as soon as I sell, it starts doing what I knew it should do, head in the correct direction. :t_up:

So my pick for tomorrow is OGC: it has been trending up for the last few months, they haven't had a press release for a couple of days so one is due, and there's been nothing but good news from this share for ages. But is it a day-trading share? :confused:

[bung5]

sudds are you trading derivatives?

[Vtrader]

Z
Are there any day trading opportunities in Hamilton tomorrow? Suggest more enjoyable to lose money drinking beer, watching fast cars and pretty girls/hunky boys (or was that fast girls and boys with pretty cars... nevermind).

sudds
Agree a very entertaining AND educational read, you have had some guidance from very respected people here. Note my junior status, not much credibility on my posts for now. So I had a look to determine what I would day trade tomorrow on NZX. Anything attractive by one measure fails in another for me (usually lack of volume), so no picks here, my pick for tomorrow ... Holden or Ford, will decide which to back when the market opens. V.
NB: Perhaps a little off topic, but I will check back to see how much of $19920 is left after tomorrow.

[elZorro]

[QUOTE=Vtrader;300959]Z
Are there any day trading opportunities in Hamilton tomorrow? Suggest more enjoyable to lose money drinking beer, watching fast cars and pretty girls (or was that fast girls and pretty cars... nevermind).

Hi there VTrader, that's very brave saying you're from Hamiltown..we should have a (small) meeting at some stage..

I will probably not be at the V8s tomorrow, too busy at work. I got a bit bored the first year I went, but all of the rest of you should go and help keep the event here, we need the tourist dollars..;)

[sudds]

just looked at the depth. not so sure

Guys Sudds is a she. Oh and save the jokes and sympathy for later :)

[sudds]

sudds are you trading derivatives?

Nope. Currently researching :)

[sudds]

Nope. Currently researching :)

SLG and DPC for me tomorrow unless it opens too high and the spread is too big. Depending on how things goes cold hold maybe until Tuesday.

[Yankiwi]

Hi there VTrader, that's very brave saying you're from Hamiltown..we should have a (small) meeting at some stage..


I'm not from Hamilton, although I have been seen visiting the "dairy" ;) just below the ten pin bowling lanes on Victioria street from time to time. I'd be open to the idea of joining in on a get together some Saturday afternoon/early evening if that would work out for everyone.

I suggest a new thread for this might be in order.

[minimoke]

SLG and DPC for me tomorrow unless it opens too high and the spread is too big. Depending on how things goes cold hold maybe until Tuesday.
How about we put you into SLG at $0.18 and DPC at $0.16 (you might need to be quick as the next ask is $0.19). To keep things simple lest assume theres enough shares available at those prices - which there aren't. Split your money 50/50 and then let me know your exit price or day/tiime to exit.

[CJ]

How about shorting TEL through a CFD provider and hope the mum and dads who watched the news last night call their brokers this morning.

[beacon]

Not today by the look of it. You would have closed out selling at $1.42 or a loss of $79.90. But that can go against your tax for future earnings. If you'd timed it right and sold at the days high you would have grossed $201 - but you missed the opportunity instead waiting for the end of the day hoping no doubt for a rebound that never came.

We probably need to look at your opportunity cost as well. If you were wanting a bit of excitement you could have worked at Maca's for $12.75 and made $102 gross plus a couple of bucks if you'd left the money in the bank.

Want to play again tomorrow?

Geez minimoke, you are bad. Very bad. Make that very very bad for haste and unplanned trading inspiration. Good on you sudds, for a provocative first thread. The selfless wisdom provided by many on this thread, and minimoke's brilliant paper trading simulation should help many a future posters. keep it up people, you're doing great.

[minimoke]

Geez minimoke, you are bad. Very bad. Make that very very bad
I think you forgot "looser" in your list of compliments since paper trading is only for loosers. The real winners just get stuck in with their cash.

[minimoke]

OK Sudds its a quiet Friday and boy do I have the deal for you. I’ve managed to rustle up some DPC at 0.155 (special deal for my friends – saving you 0.05!). SLG wasn’t so easy there was only 10,000 available at 0.18. But thanks to someone who owes me a favour or two (and in exchange for a couple of cartons of Marlboro and an bottle of JD out the back of my ute I’ve snared the rest you need at a very good price.

As the opening isn’t too high or the spread isn’t too big I’ve taken your instructions and your opening position today is DPC 64,150 bought at $0.155 and SLG 55,240 bought at 0.18.



These will come up as SP trades but may remain hidden for a while yet.


Let me know when you want to sell.

[sudds]

How about we put you into SLG at $0.18 and DPC at $0.16 (you might need to be quick as the next ask is $0.19). To keep things simple lest assume theres enough shares available at those prices - which there aren't. Split your money 50/50 and then let me know your exit price or day/tiime to exit.

OK 1/2 on DPC @ $0.155 for now. Still thinking of SLG don't want to do buy at 0.18 when it at 0.17 waiting with interest at the moment.

[minimoke]

OK 1/2 on DPC @ $0.155 for now. Still thinking of SLG don't want to do buy at 0.18 when it at 0.17 waiting with interest at the moment.
Cmon Sudds you want to be a day trader. You have to get up earlier and with the play a bit faster than that. 10.15am and the movers have already made their plays. SLG at 0.18 is a good price and I got you a buy at a substantial discount. There were asks all the way up to 0.21 for the volume you're looking for.

[Enumerate]

I would like to stress, first of all, that I think day trading is a waste of time and effort. Having said this ... I will make the following observations:

1) Forget about daytrading on the NZX. Liquidity and the limited scope of business type works against you. The ASX offers a thriving market for mineral, oil and gas and technology juniors.

A day trader thrives on volatility and liquidity. You are giving up the two most powerful factors for wealth creation - income and compounding gains based on a portfolio risk hedge. Hence you need a market that is maximally volatile and minimum income.

2) You win when you pick the herd mentality and not whether you have the correct assessment of a stock.

I can't help you here - I have no interest in guageing the herd mentality. Indeed you are on completely the wrong forum - Sharetrader and Sharescene tend deal mainly in analysis and interpretation for the long term (technical and fundamental). Day traders are a different breed and they don't live here.

3) You need to understand the "secret language" - the cues for the deployment of the hunting pack.

I believe there is a large day trading community on hotcopper. They hunt in packs and tend to organise themselves, on the forum, with ques and code words (I believe, but don't really know - I am not part of the "in" crowd). You can see strange messages from those that are in the day trade pack - I assume these are kind of signals to others in the pack - it could just be they are Australian and hence are prone to inexplicable behaviour.

Start out with hotcopper forum "day trade diaries".

4) You need minimum costs for frequent trades.

Discount brokerages are not really available in NZ - you will need an offshore brokerage. CFD's are actually expensive - they are markets apart from the ASX and NZX - not to be recommended, in my view.

Further, I'd think you to be insane to day trade with a margin account.

I very much appreciate the fact that day traders exist. They provide the market with liquidity (I can buy and sell, when I want, because day traders are boosting liquidity). Their capital tends, over time, to end up in the hands of long term investors - thank you very much for your kind donation.

If you want to meet day traders .... go to Sydney or Melbourne and shout "Taxi"!!

[sudds]

[QUOTE=Enumerate;301037]I would like to stress, first of all, that I think day trading is a waste of time and effort. Having said this ... I will make the following observations:

Thanks for your contribution - currently getting to know ASX marketing (or at least trying! :)) Ohh am listening to what you have to say and I won't necessary will get proactive with fellow day trader as its difficult to know when someone is trying to hype up a trade or just have news regarding a company. Either way I will take on board the good and bad and decide what to do. That way whatever the outcome I know I its my decision. Not wanting to sound big headed but if I had listened to everyone when they advised me not to do something I would nevery have had the success I have had so far. Thanks again for you advice very informative. Regards. :)

[sudds]

Cmon Sudds you want to be a day trader. You have to get up earlier and with the play a bit faster than that. 10.15am and the movers have already made their plays. SLG at 0.18 is a good price and I got you a buy at a substantial discount. There were asks all the way up to 0.21 for the volume you're looking for.


Sorry I know but haven't quit the day job yet (will as soon as I get all my researches an understanding of the system in etc) so as of Monday I will be up 2 hours earlier doing my bit before I leave in the morning.

[minimoke]

1) Forget about daytrading on the NZX. Liquidity and the limited scope of business type works against you.
Totally agree. If we close out Sudds position now the position is $17,911 simply because of the lack of liquidity. Sudds trades woudl account for around 90% - 100% of the days trades

The extra challenge with the ASX is you then have to factor in FX - perhasp someone else can volunteer to do the paper trades on that market.

[Enumerate]

... if I had listened to everyone when they advised me not to do something I would nevery have had the success I have had so far.


Just for the record ... I am not advising you one way or the other. Sir Thomas Beecham said: "Try everything once except folk dancing and incest". Hence I am happy to offer whatever poor information I have on day trading to assist with your experiment.

However, the enumerator in me just cannot resist pointing out that if wealth creation is your goal ... there are much better options, at this point in time.

Take a look at Macquarie Fortress Notes on the ASX - MFNHA.ASX. These are US corporate senior loans - bank loans to US corporations, syndicated to non-bank investors. They have an NTA, right now, of 35cents - you can buy them for 20cents. However, and this is the critical factor, they are earning interest at a face value of somewhere north of 50cents!! (I have some and expect to hold long term to 2035 collecting a healthy income once the existing leverage facility is refinanced).

Take a look at NZF Group capital notes - NZF010.NZX. You can buy these for about 50cents on the dollar. They are paying about 9cents of interest a year - that is 18%, if you pay 50cents for them. They mature next year - people are worried they will convert to shares - but I disagree. Anyway, even if you get $1 worth of shares (that you paid 50cents for) you should be able to liquidate at a significant profit. (I have some and expect to roll them over, indefinitely, for income - a perfect long term investment).

I stress, don't take this as advice - think for yourself and do you own research. With your day trade experiment - leave your emotions at the door - maximise your odds with research and think for yourself!! (And post on the forum if you have any particularly interesting investment ideas ... think of it as a "peer review" process).

[minimoke]

Right, lets close the day out.



Firstly DPC which you wanted. You bought 64,150 @ $0.155. They had 878 shares trade today with a value of $133. And that’s about it. Trouble is there isn’t a lot of support so you’re closed out at 20,122@ $0.155; 10,550@ $0.15, 10,000 @ $0.14; 7,000 @$0.13; 4,000@ $0.121 and your balance of $12,478 @ $0.12.

That will gross you $8,912 less brokerage of $29.95.

And SLG. No activity at all there today. You bought 55,240 @ $0.18 (hic – my mates sharing the JD. Thanks!!). So you’re closed out at 300 @ $0.17, 38,149 @ $0.165; and the balance of 16,791 @ $0.16.

That will gross you $9,032 less brokerage of $29.95.

So what’s happened today? You have been the sole trader of DPC and SLG with pretty much 100% of BUYS and 100% of SELLS.

You started the day with $19,946 and ended it with $17,884.

Over the last two days you have lost 10.6% of your cash or $2,115. If you want to break even next week you have to get a 11.8% return on your remaining cash. Not an impossible job but no-on moved that degree today. SCT went up 6.3% and they were the strongest mover – you just need to score that over the next couple of days.

[mr.needs]

Over the last two days you have lost 10.6% of your cash or $2,115.

So it definitely doesn't look as simple as some may think!

Liquidity on the NZX seems to be a huge issue.

So perhaps not many opportunities for a day trader in little ol' NZ. Do you think opportunities exist for traders of a slightly longer time frame exist given NZX's very low volumes?

[STRAT]

I agree with Phaedrus, that paper trading is very hard to do without wanting to actually try it for real, however I think this is very very revealing about your own emotions that get put into day trading.

Having enough discipline to take seriously your strategy and trade it profitably in paper trading first will mean that you will be successful when you put real money on the line.

Day traders who don't have the discipline to paper trade their strategy first are not liekly to have discipline to accept small profits when risking only 1 -2% in each trade.Being of a similar nature to you fellows I tried Paper Trading for what was planned as a very short time which I then extended when I realized how much money I had made by not loosing it for real.:D

Paper Trading is an excellent start IMO.

[STRAT]

Z
Are there any day trading opportunities in Hamilton tomorrow? Suggest more enjoyable to lose money drinking beer, watching fast cars and pretty girls/hunky boys (or was that fast girls and boys with pretty cars... nevermind).

sudds
Agree a very entertaining AND educational read, you have had some guidance from very respected people here. Note my junior status, not much credibility on my posts for now. So I had a look to determine what I would day trade tomorrow on NZX. Anything attractive by one measure fails in another for me (usually lack of volume), so no picks here, my pick for tomorrow ... Holden or Ford, will decide which to back when the market opens. V.
NB: Perhaps a little off topic, but I will check back to see how much of $19920 is left after tomorrow.Put the lot on Murph to finnish in the top 5 :lol:

[GR8DAY]

......and here's my 2c worth Sudds......DONT DO IT......or maybe you shud JUST DO IT and find out the hard way. Been there done that....waste of time and energy unless you have nothing else to do than sit in front of a screen getting radiated all day....no thanks! But here's my 2 big tips for the day.......1.select just one or two shares to trade in. and 2. Take the "day" outa "day trader" and remain flexible at all times. Never never just sell to make it a "day" trade.......always monitor every aspect of the markets and ALWAYS be prepared to hold for longer than perhaps you wud prefer as a "day trader". Oh and one other recommendation m8.......dont listen to anyone else......just do it and learn from your mistakes along the way.

[CJ]

I made 1c on shorting 9000 odd shares. With the leverage of CFD's that would have been a good gain. Telecom should have enough leverage as well that the smaller stocks wouldn't have.

[sudds]

......and here's my 2c worth Sudds......DONT DO IT......or maybe you shud JUST DO IT and find out the hard way. Been there done that....waste of time and energy unless you have nothing else to do than sit in front of a screen getting radiated all day....no thanks! But here's my 2 big tips for the day.......1.select just one or two shares to trade in. and 2. Take the "day" outa "day trader" and remain flexible at all times. Never never just sell to make it a "day" trade.......always monitor every aspect of the markets and ALWAYS be prepared to hold for longer than perhaps you wud prefer as a "day trader". Oh and one other recommendation m8.......dont listen to anyone else......just do it and learn from your mistakes along the way.

Exactly what I intend to do. Thanks. Ohhh I put myself in that 1% or whatever it is success rate. Its always good advice to hear how many fail at one thing but who is to say I will fail. I have to go into it with a positive attitude. :)

[sudds]

Comments/suggestions Please:

Does anyone have any picks for next week? If wo what are they and why (detail explanation, please). We would review it at the end of the week (Friday) and see who is correct. ANYONE UP FOR THIS?

[sudds]

Right, lets close the day out.



Firstly DPC which you wanted. You bought 64,150 @ $0.155. They had 878 shares trade today with a value of $133. And that’s about it. Trouble is there isn’t a lot of support so you’re closed out at 20,122@ $0.155; 10,550@ $0.15, 10,000 @ $0.14; 7,000 @$0.13; 4,000@ $0.121 and your balance of $12,478 @ $0.12.

That will gross you $8,912 less brokerage of $29.95.

And SLG. No activity at all there today. You bought 55,240 @ $0.18 (hic – my mates sharing the JD. Thanks!!). So you’re closed out at 300 @ $0.17, 38,149 @ $0.165; and the balance of 16,791 @ $0.16.

That will gross you $9,032 less brokerage of $29.95.

So what’s happened today? You have been the sole trader of DPC and SLG with pretty much 100% of BUYS and 100% of SELLS.

You started the day with $19,946 and ended it with $17,884.

Over the last two days you have lost 10.6% of your cash or $2,115. If you want to break even next week you have to get a 11.8% return on your remaining cash. Not an impossible job but no-on moved that degree today. SCT went up 6.3% and they were the strongest mover – you just need to score that over the next couple of days.


Now there is a challenge - still holding didn't sell today. Am I correct is thinking everyone took some profit today? I certainly did on some of my real holdings came away for the week with quite a healthy profit.

[Vtrader]

Comments/suggestions Please:

Does anyone have any picks for next week? If wo what are they and why (detail explanation, please). We would review it at the end of the week (Friday) and see who is correct. ANYONE UP FOR THIS?
I think this is less than a positive contributary approach. We all here agree that we do our own research and when it goes all pear shaped the finger of blame points inwardly. Could I suggest perhaps that you have already done your research and offer your picks and supporting theories, such that those who know otherwise could then validate/support/challenge your research, thereby adding something more. Shall we describe this approach as the mutual benefit society, help others to help yourself.
One of my own previous shortcomings and therefore a new personal rule was to NEVER follow others. V.

PS: V8 qualifying in 30 minutes, and shootout at 11:30. Ford for pole position... an outcome supported by a 7 year old boy... should I wager a greenie? Need to find a holden supporter.

[sudds]

I think this is less than a positive contributary approach. We all here agree that we do our own research and when it goes all pear shaped the finger of blame points inwardly. Could I suggest perhaps that you have already done your research and offer your picks and supporting theories, such that those who know otherwise could then validate/support/challenge your research, thereby adding something more. Shall we describe this approach as the mutual benefit society, help others to help yourself.
One of my own previous shortcomings and therefore a new personal rule was to NEVER follow others. V.

PS: V8 qualifying in 30 minutes, and shootout at 11:30. Ford for pole position... an outcome supported by a 7 year old boy... should I wager a greenie? Need to find a holden supporter.

Ok. Good points, however, I did ask for explanation to go with why you recommend a share... but it is just a light hearted weekly activity. That goes without saying never follow others:)

[sudds]

PS: V8 qualifying in 30 minutes, and shootout at 11:30. Ford for pole position... an outcome supported by a 7 year old boy... should I wager a greenie? Need to find a holden supporter.

Sorry can't help you here! The closest I ever got to motorsport was sitting in an F1 car at Brands Hatch in the UK (the car was stationery at the time I will add - I was too much of a liability to take the car for a spin! Lol. Fun times and more so the perfect size 6. :)

[Phaedrus]

Does anyone have any picks for next week? If so what are they and why (detail explanation, please). We would review it at the end of the week (Friday) and see who is correct.Your posts are beginning to worry me, Sudds!
Rather than devoting time to reading and personal research, you seem more interested in running an ST competition to see who is "right" and who is "wrong". What is your aim here? To find a "winner" that you can copy?
You say you want to be a day trader, but call for suggestions for stocks to hold for a full week. Have you changed your aim as stated in the title of this thread?
You seem more interested in other peoples ideas than in developing your own. Do you have a trading plan? If you do, you could perhaps post it here and invite constructive criticism.


Still holding, didn't sell today.... This is not the action of a short-term trader - let alone a day trader! The first step in becoming successful at anything is to be very clear about your aims. You have leapt on your horse and appear to be wanting to ride off in all directions!


Am I correct in thinking everyone took some profit today? So, you noticed the selling pressure and general market weakness, Sudds. That's good. Just as day traders don't hold stocks overnight, short-term traders don't like to hold stocks over the weekend and many close all their positions at the end of each week. They don't want to run the risk of any adverse event occurring when they do not have access to the market.

With the US market down over 1.6% this morning, such traders will be very pleased to be out of the market. A weak Monday is all but guaranteed, and my guess is that you (a short-term trader?) will wish you had sold too.

[sudds]

Your posts are beginning to worry me, Sudds!
Rather than devoting time to reading and personal research, you seem more interested in running an ST competition to see who is "right" and who is "wrong". What is your aim here? To find a "winner" that you can copy?
You say you want to be a day trader, but call for suggestions for stocks to hold for a full week. Have you changed your aim as stated in the title of this thread?
You seem more interested in other peoples ideas than in developing your own. Do you have a trading plan? If you do, you could perhaps post it here and invite constructive criticism.

This is not the action of a short-term trader - let alone a day trader! The first step in becoming successful at anything is to be very clear about your aims. You have leapt on your horse and appear to be wanting to ride off in all directions!

So, you noticed the selling pressure and general market weakness, Sudds. That's good. Just as day traders don't hold stocks overnight, short-term traders don't like to hold stocks over the weekend and many close all their positions at the end of each week. They don't want to run the risk of any adverse event occurring when they do not have access to the market.

With the US market down over 1.6% this morning, such traders will be very pleased to be out of the market. A weak Monday is all but guaranteed, and my guess is that you (a short-term trader?) will wish you had sold too.

Thanks for your comments. No I don't agree with your comments re running competiton. And yes I am doing my research, please don't worry about me :) All work and no play... you know the rest. A diversion is good and parting from the norm is also good. If I do what everyone else do, I will only repeat their mistakes and possible failure. Good to have all the knowledge etc (preparation) but no harm in have some fun whilst doing it. I am a day trader (biginner) but not out to be a super trader/trader of the year! :) I have a goal as to what I want to achieve every week and anything else is a bonus. MY SUCCESS DEPENDS ON ME and not a few picks by people on this board. Yes its good to share information and have a bit of light hearted fun. Also I am one of those who insists on reading the very fine lines on everything and finding out as much as possible about what I get involved - this has helped me on many occasions.

Thanks for your comments though. All comments are good ones - its all in the mind and its how the mind processes it. :) I Also like smiling a lot - is food for the soul!

[belgarion]

Does anyone have any picks for next week?

Play the dead cat bounce with US financials. Look for the biggest fallers on Fri that had the most solid uptrends and fundimentals (that little bit of analysis; uptrends and fundimentals; should keep you busy for all Sunday and all Monday NZ time. Caution - market is looking for a reason to correct so the dead cat bounce might be shallow and short in duration. Dead cat bounces are usually (in my expirience) not exactly day-trades as I generally buy late in the day, hold overnight and wait the change of direction over the next day(s). Paste bounces for the stock and similar stocks boucing in the same general market can give you a steer to what the bounce may look like.

[sudds]

Play the dead cat bounce with US financials. Look for the biggest fallers on Fri that had the most solid uptrends and fundimentals (that little bit of analysis; uptrends and fundimentals; should keep you busy for all Sunday and all Monday NZ time. Caution - market is looking for a reason to correct so the dead cat bounce might be shallow and short in duration. Dead cat bounces are usually (in my expirience) not exactly day-trades as I generally buy late in the day, hold overnight and wait the change of direction over the next day(s). Paste bounces for the stock and similar stocks boucing in the same general market can give you a steer to what the bounce may look like.

Thank you.

[STRAT]

Comments/suggestions Please:

Does anyone have any picks for next week? If wo what are they and why (detail explanation, please). We would review it at the end of the week (Friday) and see who is correct. ANYONE UP FOR THIS?Hi Sudds,
You want day trading picks for next week this week? :eek2:

Let me know if you get any offers. Intraday performers found a week in advance would be a true asset. Wouldnt mind a tip or two like that myself.:t_up:

[sudds]

Hi Sudds,
You want day trading picks for next week this week? :eek2:

Let me know if you get any offers. Intraday performers found a week in advance would be a true asset. Wouldnt mind a tip or two like that myself.:t_up:

OK more like recommendations with reasons why eg interim reports, good news etc... Ohh I don't expect everyone to be forthcoming but whats wrong with a bit of fun!:) The NZ Herald do it once a year why not here? Picks are picks and recommendations are likewise and should not be taken as solid confirmation that a share will go up. Sharing of info within reason is all good as long as you abide by the forum and any Acts Rules and Regulations. Criticism well we would be fools to critise anyone else for their picks - if we do then we should be super traders and why do we need this forum?! :)

[JBmurc]

OK more like recommendations with reasons why eg interim reports, good news etc... Ohh I don't expect everyone to be forthcoming but whats wrong with a bit of fun!:) The NZ Herald do it once a year why not here? Picks are picks and recommendations are likewise and should not be taken as solid confirmation that a share will go up. Sharing of info within reason is all good as long as you abide by the forum and any Acts Rules and Regulations. Criticism well we would be fools to critise anyone else for their picks - if we do then we should be super traders and why do we need this forum?! :)

OGC NZO buy them cheap as possible(should well be good buying next week) hold for a 6months make more than day trading + not spend 5-8hrs per day in front of the screen

[CJ]

I made 1c on shorting 9000 odd shares. With the leverage of CFD's that would have been a good gain. Telecom should have enough leverage as well that the smaller stocks wouldn't have.My guess for today would be to short $15,000 AIR and $5000 AIA using CFD's. My guess is they will fall on the continued effect of the ash cloud.

[sudds]

My guess for today would be to short $15,000 AIR and $5000 AIA using CFD's. My guess is they will fall on the continued effect of the ash cloud.


Oh CFD's :)

[belgarion]

Play the dead cat bounce with US financials. Look for the biggest fallers on Fri that had the most solid uptrends and fundimentals (that little bit of analysis; uptrends and fundimentals; should keep you busy for all Sunday and all Monday NZ time.

GS good for $2.50 per share (1.7%'ish) today and a pretty safe trade with an easy to read trend. You could have made more if you'd shorted at the right time. C was bit trickier but the gain better (6%'ish) and again shorting would have made you more. BAC went nowhere but was safe play and a few cents per share could have been picked up. All 3 opened and imediately went higher so all three would have made you you money today ... With heavy leverage you could have got a return of over 1,000 percent today.

.... But did you play any of them?

[CJ]

My guess for today would be to short $15,000 AIR and $5000 AIA using CFD's. My guess is they will fall on the continued effect of the ash cloud.Becasue they fell on opening I am not sure I would have bought. They were both pretty much break even based on openning and closing price so timing would have been very important. If you could have started with the prior day closing however, it would have been a good gain for the day.

[peat]

If you could have started with the prior day closing however, it would have been a good gain for the day.
lol but of course! that would be too easy.

[ENP]

How stressful !!

Do you get ANY sleep?

[peat]

How stressful !!

Do you get ANY sleep?

money never sleeps, havent you seen the poster for the new Wall Street movie ?

[CJ]

lol but of course! that would be too easy.

Yep. Apparently lots of others had the same idea as me. The way to makes lots of money is to have insider knowledge. Once it is in the news, it is unlikely you can react fast enough.

[minimoke]

Right, lets close the day out.



Firstly DPC which you wanted. You bought 64,150 @ $0.155. They had 878 shares trade today with a value of $133. And that’s about it. Trouble is there isn’t a lot of support so you’re closed out at 20,122@ $0.155; 10,550@ $0.15, 10,000 @ $0.14; 7,000 @$0.13; 4,000@ $0.121 and your balance of $12,478 @ $0.12.

That will gross you $8,912 less brokerage of $29.95.

And SLG. No activity at all there today. You bought 55,240 @ $0.18 (hic – my mates sharing the JD. Thanks!!). So you’re closed out at 300 @ $0.17, 38,149 @ $0.165; and the balance of 16,791 @ $0.16.

That will gross you $9,032 less brokerage of $29.95.

So what’s happened today? You have been the sole trader of DPC and SLG with pretty much 100% of BUYS and 100% of SELLS.

You started the day with $19,946 and ended it with $17,884.

Over the last two days you have lost 10.6% of your cash or $2,115. If you want to break even next week you have to get a 11.8% return on your remaining cash. Not an impossible job but no-on moved that degree today. SCT went up 6.3% and they were the strongest mover – you just need to score that over the next couple of days.
You mentioned you might look at closing out at the end of day Tuesday . So how would you have done.

Well unfortunately someone got in before you at DPC. They snared 40,000 at $0.155 leaving you with having to begin mopping up at $0.151. Your sales would have grossed you $9,077.

A bit the same with SLG leaving you starting at $0.166. Today you would have grossed $7,455.

Take off your brokerage and you are now down to $16,472 cash or a 17.6% loss. Tomorrow you’ll need to make 21.4% to get back to break even. Not impossible – ALF put on 14% during the day today. GEN made a whopping 51% but only on $350 worth of trades.

[belgarion]

How stressful !!

Do you get ANY sleep?

LOL ... Some ... but such "situation plays" in stocks that I've researched don't come around that frequently (and I was a bit miffed that C, which I a had a few of and was going very nicely, got clobbered with GS and tight stops, too tight perhaps, bouced me out ... Don't get mad, get even ... BTW not back in C yet as there's rumour going around that GS isn't the only big bank the SEC has in its sights. Many are speculating it could be C.)

[RazorX]

Buy NPX at today's open of $3.15 and selling at the high of $3.27 around midday would have made a bit. $31,500 purchase for 10,000 shares + brokerage fees, $32,700 sell - fees = $1,200 gross profit... so take off fees you still would have earned more than I do in a day :p.

Personally I like to buy and hold shares medium/long term as others have said - not an awful lot of liquidity. However Sudds if you do want adventure, nail biting, excitement, tears, laughter etc... try Forex. $3 trillion traded per day, 7 majors, lots of crosses and there is always action on something. I trade during the night from about 9pm. (Disc - I have lost $274 in the 3 months I have gone live. Took a bit of metal bashing in the first month and its taken a few months to get myself sorted out. We are on the upward, though somewhat slower ride to the top.) One thing I have had to learn is you don't do what you 'think' the market will do - you do what others will think it will do. Follow the trend so to speak.

Good luck with your trading! - whatever you decide to trade. :D

[JBmurc]

Buy NPX at today's open of $3.15 and selling at the high of $3.27 around midday would have made a bit. $31,500 purchase for 10,000 shares + brokerage fees, $32,700 sell - fees = $1,200 gross profit... so take off fees you still would have earned more than I do in a day :p.

Personally I like to buy and hold shares medium/long term as others have said - not an awful lot of liquidity. However Sudds if you do want adventure, nail biting, excitement, tears, laughter etc... try Forex. $3 trillion traded per day, 7 majors, lots of crosses and there is always action on something. I trade during the night from about 9pm. (Disc - I have lost $274 in the 3 months I have gone live. Took a bit of metal bashing in the first month and its taken a few months to get myself sorted out. We are on the upward, though somewhat slower ride to the top.) One thing I have had to learn is you don't do what you 'think' the market will do - you do what others will think it will do. Follow the trend so to speak.

Good luck with your trading! - whatever you decide to trade. :D

Yeah it's aways easy after the days over try doing it at the start of the day

[minimoke]

You mentioned you might look at closing out at the end of day Tuesday . So how would you have done.

Well unfortunately someone got in before you at DPC. They snared 40,000 at $0.155 leaving you with having to begin mopping up at $0.151. Your sales would have grossed you $9,077.

A bit the same with SLG leaving you starting at $0.166. Today you would have grossed $7,455.

Take off your brokerage and you are now down to $16,472 cash or a 17.6% loss. Tomorrow you’ll need to make 21.4% to get back to break even. Not impossible – ALF put on 14% during the day today. GEN made a whopping 51% but only on $350 worth of trades.
well thats day trading for you. SLG up 5.9% and DPC up 3.2% - but paper trading you would have sold out yesterday