NZX - What a joke

[Anna Naum]

NZX Market Supervision Public Statement

3 June 2010

NZX Market Supervision Public Statement


Introduction

The NZ Markets Disciplinary Tribunal (“NZMDT”) has considered a Settlement Agreement in respect of a Statement of Case brought by NZX Market Supervision (“NZXMS”) against a Market Participant (the “Participant”). In accordance with the settlement reached between NZXMS and the Participant, and approved by NZMDT, the identity of the Participant has been omitted from this public statement.

The Statement of Case related to alleged breaches of NZX Participant Rule E10.15.1(f) and NZX Participant Rule 11.16.5(b) in respect of trading by a client of the Participant (the “Client”).

The NZXMS investigation of this matter arose from NZXMS’s surveillance of the NZDX Market.

NZX Participant Rules
NZX Participant Rule E10.15.1(f) requires that:
“All Trades shall be reported in the Trading System on a gross basis excluding any reasonable brokerage or fees incurred;”
NZX Participant Rule 11.16.5(b) requires that:
“Each Client Advising Participant must disclose on a client’s contract note:
…
The full extent of any commission and margin charge; and
…”

Description of Breaches

1. Breach One – NZX Participant Rule E10.15.1(f)

(a) An NZXMS investigation uncovered that, over a two month period, the Participant reported 19 trades to market at a price which included the Participants brokerage fee.

(b) Reporting Trades to market inclusive of brokerage fees is a breach of NZX Participant Rule E10.15.1(f).

(c) The Participant has admitted this breach.

(d) NZXMS accepts the contention of the Participant that the breach resulted from the specific request of the Client as set out in paragraph 2(c) below.


2. Breach Two – NZX Participant Rule 11.16.5(b)

(a) Following the trading activity to which Breach One relates, the Participant provided the Client with contact notes which, while it included the brokerage charged, did not separately disclose the Participant’s brokerage fee.

(b) The provision of contract notes to a client, which do not disclose the full extent of any commission or margin charges, is a breach of NZX Participant Rule 11.16.5(b).

(c) The Participant has admitted this breach. NZXMS accepts that this arrangement was entered into at the request of the Client who required the brokerage to be presented in that way. However, NZXMS does not consider it appropriate for Market Participants to contract out of the NZX Participant Rules without express permission from NZXMS.

Decision

NZXMS and the Participant have reached a settlement in respect of the above breaches that:

(a) a penalty of $6,500 (plus GST, if any) be imposed on the Participant for the above breaches in aggregate and that such penalty shall be paid into the NZX (Discipline) Fund;

(b) the Participant will pay the costs incurred and invoiced for both NZXMS and the NZMDT (plus GST, if any); and

(c) this public statement will be published.

The settlement has been approved by the NZMDT, as contemplated by section 10 of the NZMDT Rules, and as such, the Settlement Agreement is the determination of NZMDT.

[percy]

Nice to see the wording "the Paticipant"is this now the correct term for "the Member"which I always enjoyed.?
Unfortunately the joke still remains.

[Anna Naum]

Once again the NZX slaps one of its own with a wet bus ticket

[percy]

Once again the NZX slaps one of its own with a wet bus ticket

Learnt from 'the member'days I would think!!!

[Capitalist]

If you don't like it, don't invest in it. It really is that simple.

[Anna Naum]

If you don't like it, don't invest in it. It really is that simple.

I am more concerned at the lack of real punishment for activities that break the rules. As for the investment case, the only way it becomes better is if the NZX is seen to be a true and fair exchange, this sort of behaviour and punishment does nothing to improve the image of the exchange in the eyes of people looking to commit capital to the market, not just those looking to invest in the stock itself.

[percy]

If you don't like it, don't invest in it. It really is that simple.

You may be right,however I fail t see how anyone can like it.It is a joke that reflects on NZX for issuing it.

[Dr_Who]

If you don't like it, don't invest in it. It really is that simple.

I dont, most of my funds are invested overseas. There is nothing much worth investing on the NZX. This is one of the many reasons why NZers still love properties and not equities.

[percy]

I dont, most of my funds are invested overseas. There is nothing much worth investing on the NZX. This is one of the many reasons why NZers still love properties and not equities.

Unfortunately I think your post is too true.

[Thumpa]

I can't stand the NZX announcements . Look's like they are printed on a commodore 64 dot matrix printer .... unreadable

[mr.needs]

I can't stand the NZX announcements . Look's like they are printed on a commodore 64 dot matrix printer .... unreadable

If you log into My NZX (that little box on the right of the webpage) you can view the announcements in all their pdf goodness. Its really not that difficult; click on an announcement and then click on 'Related Attachment' to download.

[Silverlight]

I don't get what the joke is, maybe I am just naive?

Second fine in as many weeks? https://www.i-search.nzx.com/blobs/NZSE0000/2010/330675/NZSE0000-119899.pdf

[belgarion]

Not much information as to the scale of the issue. Was it millions or thousands or even hundreds? I.e. the fine may be a reflection of the samll amounts involved. Also, looks more like a junior's balls up rather than intentional skuldugery and the small fine may reflect the fact that the junior was working with small amounts.

[minimoke]

As an aside anyone here familiar with NZX rules. I need some help on a company's obligation (if any) to report a situation that may impact negatively on earnings. Please PM me.

[Vtrader]

Again NZX getting less than positive publicity. Some issue with late payment for electricity market as administered by NZX. Appears payments were delayed over the weekend and have now been settled. Not good news that the NZX are getting their systems investigated again...
V.

[macduffy]

ASX and Singapore Exchange to join forces?

I wonder if anyone's interested in taking over the NZX and if so, whether this would breathe some life into our bourse.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/asx-singapore-stock-exchange-to-join-forces/story-e6frg8zx-1225942452702

[macduffy]

And here's a reminder that we're not the only ones concerned about the "hollowing-out" of our national exchange.

"Richard Holmes wrote:

It looks like we are about to lose another top Australian company, Perpetual, to overseas owners. (See KKR's Perpetual problem, October 18.) KKR are only going to do what was done to Myer. Then we have Foster's which might also disappear, with no Australian-owned brewer left in a country which consumes copious quantities of the stuff.

Why do company directors think selling their companies is the best result for shareholders? They are paid excessively well, along with their bonuses to run the company. If they cannot do it, resign and get someone else to do it. But then they have vested interests in a takeover, such as further bonuses for completing the transaction and a job on the board of the new entity lapping up directors fees.

If these takeovers continue at this rate, there will be fewer and fewer quality ASX listed companies to invest in. Where to then? Into managed overseas funds which rob the daylight out of unit holders with their fees, with no loss to the managers if things go bad? It will be the managed funds that determine what happens and they are only after a profit in the short term which does more for their bonuses than it does for shareholder returns.

18 Oct 2010 2:50 PM

"

[remy]

Any ASX holders in this joint? Sold mine a few months back.. Hurting big time :(

[_Michael]

Any ASX holders in this joint? Sold mine a few months back.. Hurting big time :(


Do not hold ASX but hold NZX.

Interested in what the implications are for NZX.

Positive - valuation implications and speculation of further consolidation

Negative - the new combined entity could look to enter NZ market and steam roll NZX in the dairy futures market etc.

Anyone have a view on this?

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Michael the sooner the better. Preferably they steam roll NZX out of existence the better

[lissica]

Any ASX holders in this joint? Sold mine a few months back.. Hurting big time :(

Yep, but only have 300 odd ASX shares. I seem to have the habit of getting the least significant parts of my portfolio being taken over recently, last ones being AVE and AOE. Or maybe there is an 'A' theme.

No one wants my bigger holdings, but I shouldn't really complain ^.^

[lissica]

I seem to have the habit of getting the least significant parts of my portfolio being taken over recently, last ones being AVE and AOE. Or maybe there is an 'A' theme.


And just for the record so I can tell you all I told you so, the only 'A' share I have left is ANZ.
Start piling in everyone!

[Hoop]

Do not hold ASX but hold NZX.

Interested in what the implications are for NZX.

Positive - valuation implications and speculation of further consolidation

Negative - the new combined entity could look to enter NZ market and steam roll NZX in the dairy futures market etc.

Anyone have a view on this?

_Michael you would be happy with NZX positive knee jerk reaction this morning would'nt you?
NZX shares up 5c (+3.2% ) atm

[JayPe]

Negative - the new combined entity could look to enter NZ market and steam roll NZX in the dairy futures market etc.

Anyone have a view on this?

Would the combined exchange look to compete and kill NZX, or buy it out? Surely the latter is more likely. New Zealand isn't large enough for two competing companies - and everybody knows it. It would be much simpler & cheaper to just buy NZX, and the threat of competition would be enough to ensure the takeover premium was not excessive.

[peat]

I'm not sure exactly how rational it is but the thought of the national securities exchange (which has some regulatory role) being owned and operated by a foreign corporation is unsettling even if there are synergy benefits. Presumably there are conflicts of interest at some stage as well. Strikes me that best interest of the nation is a large factor in this situation
I guess there are securities exchanges not locally owned in other countries but perhaps in these cases they are not the only bourse eg there is competition.

There are a few objectors popping up in Aussie for this one (the SGX bid)
If it goes through then (barring legal restrictions) the NZX will be a goner. Of course it may well get a good t/o offer but that will in the long run just be another contribution to the demise of our own capital markets


edit : relevant article
ironically listed on the nzx website (well I guess not truly ironically given that its angle)
http://www.nzx.com/home/4272737/ASX-deal-good-for-Australia-bad-for-New-Zealand
The ASX attempted to take over the New Zealand stock exchange in 2001, and was rebuffed, largely on national interest arguments.

[JayPe]

There are a few objectors popping up in Aussie for this one (the SGX bid)


Looks like there's a lot of kerfuffle about this politically (who would have thought eh?):
- the Greens (1 MP + a number of Senators) have stated they will not support the merger
- Independents/crossbenchers Tony Crook, Andrew Wilkie & Bob Katter said they did not support the merger
- the Opposition is talking about how they really do support foreign investment in principle, but there's the whole "national interest" thing
- the Treasurer, Wayne Swan, has issued a statement full of the "national interest", "market integrity" and the "regulatory process" (you can successfully guess the rest)

The transaction needs to be approved by Parliament indirectly, as regulations need to be changed allowing a party to hold more than 15% of the ASX shares. Its interesting to note that the ASX share price jumped 20% when the offer was announced (much less than the 37% premium) and when the Greens leader made his comments they dropped 7.5%. So its no done deal.

Sources:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/asx-takeover-faces-big-hurdles-20101026-171la.html
http://www.smh.com.au/business/independents-to-oppose-asx-takeover-20101028-174is.html

[_Michael]

Encouraging news on the Dairy Futures market today. Record volume of trading after very slow start.

Will be interesting to see how that pans out.

With regards to their mire recent results does anyone know how they earn revenues from clearing house outside the usual trading revenues?

Thanks And Regards,

M

[macduffy]

NZX pulls the plug on its Australian exchange jv.

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-business/nzx-winds-up-jv-market-on-aust-securities-20110114-19q5v.html

[Silverlight]

With regards to their mire recent results does anyone know how they earn revenues from clearing house outside the usual trading revenues?

M

A clearing house makes money from interest it receives, on the margin the users (brokers) deposit with the clearing house, to bear the risk of settling every trade (counter party failure). Addtionally the margin the brokers provide will not always be cash, but securities as well. The clearing house can then lend there securities out to third parties, for a fee, and the third parties can use the lent stock to sell short securities.

On the ASX merger taking over NZX, why bother? why target bread crumbs, when you already own a bakery?

NZX completes 2,000 trades a day, compared to ASX 400,000 trades a day, the revenue and effort to secure the extra NZX revenue is easier done by just having the big companies dual list... oh yeah that already happens, FBU, TEL, AIA, AIR, IFT, are already listed on asx, are more traded there, and more liquid, so ASX already get a piece of the pie, and over time their piece has grown.

NZX is a data merchant business, that as a side also runs an exchange. For accurate analysis, compare NZX to Iress, Bloomberg, or even APN, rather than ASX.

[Balance]

NZX is a data merchant business, that as a side also runs an exchange. For accurate analysis, compare NZX to Iress, Bloomberg, or even APN, rather than ASX.

NZX has been milking monopoly profits by fee gouging industry participants - so much so that the industry is shrinking and the day of reckoning is coming fast.

Mark Weldon will be out of there though with his options etc cashed up before the inevitable happens - his successor will be left with a stuffed goose which used to lay eggs.

What a disgrace.

[Vtrader]

Meanwhile, 'those that know best' are encouraging NZers to save and invest in wealth creation.
Little wonder the kiwi property love affair is what it is.
V.

[Balance]

Meanwhile, 'those that know best' are encouraging NZers to save and invest in wealth creation.
Little wonder the kiwi property love affair is what it is.
V.

Property love affair is a global phenomenon - witness the carnage in Ireland, Spain and the US. Witness the obsession with property in Asia.

Difference is that they are more balanced in their investments and not as dumb as your average kiwi investor who thinks property can only go one way. Blue Chip and coastal properties are two prime examples of how dumb kiwis are.

Coastal property in NZ is now stuffed for the next 10 years.

[Balance]

An idea of the disaster which is coastal properties in NZ :

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/news/article.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=10691974

Almost as bad as the Irish real estate market where property prices have collpased between 33% to 75% since 2007.

Or the Spanish coastal properties which has dropped by over 55%.

Love affair with properties, anyone?

She is one ugly asset class in certain segments but the average kiwi is so dumb and starry eyed, they get taken for one big gigantic ride.

[Xerof]

Coastal property in NZ is now stuffed for the next 10 years.

If you follow the global warming mantra, coastal property is stuffed permanently - it'll be seabed.........

Gee, we could open up a huge debate here though Balance - a lot of the cause of boom/bust can be squarely laid at the feet of loose lending policies by lending institutions, and loose monetary conditions being left in place for far too long by authorities (under Greenspan for example), and finally, our broking/advisory fraternity can take some of the blame for putting investors into totally inappropriate asset classes for individual circumstances, and poor investments per se, simply for the sake of commissions and ongoing trails.....

I agree the NZX is a disgrace and should be put out of its misery. Yet another NZ 'industry' in terminal decline

[Balance]

If you follow the global warming mantra, coastal property is stuffed permanently - it'll be seabed.........

Look over at Australia - a sign of things to come. There are already cheap beachfront properties in Byron Bay, Noosa and Sanctuary Cove for sale as insurance will not cover them.

Meanwhile, kiwis still look adoringly at their overpriced and unwanted coastal properties and wonder what happened to the queues of buyers who were there 4 years ago.

[minimoke]

Love affair with properties, anyone?

She is one ugly asset class in certain segments but the average kiwi is so dumb and starry eyed, they get taken for one big gigantic ride.
As a fan of property I was wondering if this ought to get a response. It does and its one of agreement.

One of the properties I have on my "watchlist" is the Twizel Airport Subdivision. You are probably wondering where Twizel is and may be even more surprised it has an airport.

But thanks to the foresight of the city elders and the generosity of the rate payers of the Mackenzie District you to can fly your personal light aircraft to the heart of the majestic Mackenzie country. Taxiing on the runway is a breeze as it is designed to avoid collision with other congested airport traffic and you can park your plane in your own two story hanger and retire in your personalized 150sqm aviator paradise. You're then only a three minute drive to the bustling heart of Twizel. While in town stop off for a satisfyingly cup of Nescafe, enjoy a Shrimp Cocktail before tucking into your Snitzel at the Twizel Tavern before a round of golf at the 9 hole Ben Ohau Links (heads up - sheep only graze on days with an "s" in it"). If you fancy a quiet night at home you can always get Top Gun movie out from the local hardware store (check out the "Latest Releases" stand!) or if you are a bit of a Shane Jones I have it on good authority Boys in the Sand is available behind the curtain.

Heres me thinking the inbreeding around Waimate had bred out any useful intelligence from the local population it seems a few slope foreheaded individuals had the intellectual capacity to cob a ride on the back of a harvester and ended up in a position of power in Twizel and created this brilliant scheme.

Either that, or Alan Hubbards South Canterbury Finance has helped fund a few farmers into an equally successful political career. Either way the Airport Subdivision is an idea dreamt up by numbskull's who can take some comfort from the fact that a few oxygen deprived aviators have seen fit to stump up a bit of cash for their piece of high country paradise. Its no wonder Martin Jetpack has expectations of a successful IPO.

[Balance]

This is the dumb part about NZ investors and commentators - it's always 'wild west ' stock market and 'no wonder love affair with property' as if both statements are correct.

Imagine how investors and commentators would react if a big segment of the NZ stock market was to collapse, wiping billions off the face of the earth and liquidity dried up completely? And yet, that's exactly what has happened to the coastal property market - likewise the lakes and river markets. Howls of protest and derogatory comments made?

Not letting the NZX off the hook though. It is a disgrace - a fee gouging monopoly which has failed by almost all measures of performance - size, growth, liquidity, dynamism, education etc.

NZ will pay a very heavy price for the way that the NZX has been allowed to be run down even as its executives, especially CEO, are paid astronomical amounts based upon profit.

[Balance]

And now, even dairy farmers are finding cold harsh reality that farm prices must ultimately reflect adequate reurns, focus on productive gains rather than capital gains :

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10700523

Love affair with property? More like the kiss of leverage combined with dumb thinking by kiwis.

[Balance]

Yet more fall-out from the love affair so exuberantly promoted and discussed by certain quarters and individuals :

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/4564045/Queenstown-creditors-likely-out-of-pocket

She's an ugly one, the Lakes district property segment. But starry eyed lovers see her as gorgeous beyond reproach.

Just mention the word "property' and the kiwi love-struck blinded suitors come with money in their hands to pour into the ventures.

[Balance]

Want a section at half-price in Queenstown?

She's a lovely looking one, this one : http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-me-property/Residential-property/Sections-for-sale/auction-325703288.htm

Only love-struck kiwis need apply.

[Xerof]

But wait, Sam Stubbs says it's a great time to buy a house......:scared::scared:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/4560372/A-good-time-to-own-a-house

Eeuww, lemme at them......

discl: read at own risk
discl: bin rentin since aug 2007

[JBmurc]

Want a section at half-price in Queenstown?

She's a lovely looking one, this one : http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-me-property/Residential-property/Sections-for-sale/auction-325703288.htm

Only love-struck kiwis need apply.

yeah old joke point can't believe the 385,000 rateable value talk about overvalued, the section we've built are new home on at lake hayes is near three times the size and has a Q.V of only 290,000 and a few on the same street have sold in the low 300's recently

another real bonus on that jacks point section is the fact your annual rates are real expensive as not only do you have to pay rates on 385k value to the QLDC but you have a annual golf course fee,jacks point sewerage,landscaping upkeep etc(you have to pay extra to actually get a playing membership)think it's round 4k-5k per ann for this type section double what are rates are

[Balance]

Back to NZX.

Complaint made by aggrieved note holder in Sept 2010 against inadequate disclosure by South Canterbury Finance referred by NZX to Securities Commission.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/new-south-canty-complaint-referred-seccomm-nzx-p-83953

Oh wow! NZX considers the complaint to be sufficiently serious!

And where was the NZX right throughout this sorry saga? Enforcing its continuous disclosure regime to make sure that investors are adequately informed?

Where were the 'please explain' from NZX even whilst SCF's notes blew out and the news gotten grimmer and grimmer?

Asleep at the wheel, hoping like hell that SCF would keep trading for a while so that NZX can keep clipping the ticket.

An absolute disgrace.

[Silverlight]

Where were the 'please explain' from NZX even whilst SCF's notes blew out and the news gotten grimmer and grimmer?



In the interest of "balance", NZX did write to SCF on the 5 August.

http://www.nzx.com/markets/NZDX/SCF010/announcements/3994951/Share-Price-Enquiry

[SPARKY]

I mortgaged myself up to my eyeballs to buy a house in 1972, cost 5000. REPayments were almost crippling. I sold in 1986 and the repayments were a joke, sold for 55000.
If I,d had 5000 cash in the bank in 1972 there is no way that would have got to 55000 in 14 yrs. this demonstrated to me how, in times of inflation, properties can be a good option. The average kiwi is probably not going to buy a beachfront property, he will probably buy the house next door and rent it.
A house is a house and will always be a house, 5000$ will always be 5000$ but it can be worth bugger all over time.
If you believe inflation is going to increase having money in the bank is not a good option, a house is better, or maybe you could own shares, but which ones, or you could trust your cash to a finance co.
good luck whatever you do,

[minimoke]

I'd set up a poll if I remembered how but what are the chances of Mighty River Power, Solid Energy, Meridian Energy and Genesis entering the NZX in a partial SOE sell off / float. I'd say not high.

[CJ]

I'd set up a poll if I remembered how but what are the chances of Mighty River Power, Solid Energy, Meridian Energy and Genesis entering the NZX in a partial SOE sell off / float. I'd say not high.This should probably be another thread, but provided National gets elected, at least one of those will be listed in the next term. Ideally I would like to see one partial listing per year for the next few years. Sell off 20%-25% initially and retail the option to sell down again to retain 51%.

If done annually, it will see a lot of (media) interest in the markets and will also mean the public would be able to afford to drip feed into the market. If they dump them all at once, increased likelihood larger poritions will go offshore.

Also introduce a brightline test so if you sell within 1 year of IPO, it is deemed to be on revenue account (ie. taxable) to ensure those that want them get it and to reduce those trying to stag it.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

CJ Are they just trying to keep the NZX in existence More Money to be saved by rolling the Three power companies into one and saving two thirds of the salaries let alone the reduction of rent. Cheaper finance available for larger company reduction in computer costs as you only need one setup not three. More efficient use of generating capacity. I think it is a brainless idea. Just to prop up the NZX Borrow the money of the Public Just offer Govt Guaranteed term deposits at reasonable interest rates readily available to the public and cut out the banks margin. But that would upset thier mates in Banking would it not?

[Jaa]

CJ Are they just trying to keep the NZX in existence More Money to be saved by rolling the Three power companies into one and saving two thirds of the salaries let alone the reduction of rent. Cheaper finance available for larger company reduction in computer costs as you only need one setup not three. More efficient use of generating capacity. I think it is a brainless idea. Just to prop up the NZX Borrow the money of the Public Just offer Govt Guaranteed term deposits at reasonable interest rates readily available to the public and cut out the banks margin. But that would upset thier mates in Banking would it not?

That sounds far to sensible to ever happen :(

[CJ]

CJ Are they just trying to keep the NZX in existence More Money to be saved by rolling the Three power companies into one and saving two thirds of the salaries let alone the reduction of rent. Cheaper finance available for larger company reduction in computer costs as you only need one setup not three. More efficient use of generating capacity. I think it is a brainless idea. Just to prop up the NZX Borrow the money of the Public Just offer Govt Guaranteed term deposits at reasonable interest rates readily available to the public and cut out the banks margin. But that would upset thier mates in Banking would it not?

Good point - why are they split? The competition argument goes out the window (pretty much) since there is contact and Trustpower.

[minimoke]

This should probably be another thread, .
I think you are right - have done so.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

And the NZX is still a Joke the sooner it is replaced with something more competitive the better

[Paper Tiger]

Given that you have been moaning about this one, I thought I should buy some.

best wishes
Paper Tiger

[_Michael]

Any chance of chart Phaedrus. Some interesting price / volume action this week.

[Paper Tiger]

Given that you have been moaning about this one, I thought I should buy some.

best wishes
Paper Tiger

So, after a less than stellar start, suddenly it is rising like Mainfreight !

Obviously there has been insider knowledge that Mark was not going to lead the company (http://stocknessmonster.com/news-item?S=NZX&E=NZSE&N=206644) for a while. (But seriously, I am fully in favour of the fund raising).

Tschuss
Paper Tiger

[Phaedrus]

I don't know how actively you want to trade, Michael, so this chart attempts to cover all the bases.

Active short-term traders would use the short-term trendlines (dotted light green and magenta lines) along with oscillators such as the RSI shown here. Note that every divergence marked a significant turning point, but that not every significant turning point was marked by a divergence.

Those wanting to trade the "medium-term" trends would use the red and green trendlines and the OBV trendline.

Long-term, conservative traders would use the 200 day moving average and perhaps a slow Stochastic oscillator as shown here.

The points at which each of these groups bought should be quite obvious, but if you are unclear about anything, just ask.

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/PhaedrusPB/NZX310.gif

[_Michael]

Thanks Phaedrus.

I am long term and agree the trend is your friend.

There is a lot of institutional money fleeing into NZX now on the back of their dividend hike and very bullish outlook.

Am picking the slow stochastic oscillator is indicating buy currently - is that correct.

I have been hold since mid GFC but added last week on news and assumption the big money would start flowing once it takes one or two weeks to digest the news!

[Lizard]

I notice that in the middle of the National Property Trust re-organisation, the NZX has managed to delete the links to any info on NAP and not yet loaded anything under NPT... crazy, since this is exactly the time that people might want to know what is happening with their NAP shares...

[nosolution]

Phaedrus, I'd love to see an updates chart on this. Pretty excited about what my NZX shares have been up to over the last few months :p

[Paper Tiger]

Good to see this is still on the up and up :)

best wishes
Paper Tiger

[Romer]

Good to see this is still on the up and up :)

best wishes
Paper Tiger

If it's gonna keep on doing this Anna Naum is gonna have to change the name of the thread :)

[nosolution]

If it's gonna keep on doing this Anna Naum is gonna have to change the name of the thread :)

Right? This has definitely been the performer in my portfolio as of late. I have to say I'm not 100% sure why. But I'm not complaining.

[Jim]

I don't know why punters are selling it last year and NZX was buying it back big time at around $1.4+ a share. Luckily I picked up some for that price and I intend to sit on it and collect the dividend. Good yield and growth stock I think

[nosolution]

What do you guys think about this? Immidiate trend seems to be turning. Obviously long term trend still says up but... activity has definitely changed.

[nosolution]

CEO sold 2 million shares today. Probably not a good sign. Apparently he sold 2 mil, bought $800k worth (looks like options so who knows at what price?) and used the rest to buy a property.

[winner69]

CEO sold 2 million shares today. Probably not a good sign. Apparently he sold 2 mil, bought $800k worth (looks like options so who knows at what price?) and used the rest to buy a property.

... and just a week after a real rave at the AGM about how great the company was ..... whatever the timing was never going to be brillant

Anyway Mr Weldon ... you have done well over the past few years ... well done

[belgarion]

Serious $$$ went through today! 189 million. (sleepy old RYM making up a big chunk!)

[Balance]

... and just a week after a real rave at the AGM about how great the company was ..... whatever the timing was never going to be brillant

Anyway Mr Weldon ... you have done well over the past few years ... well done

He has done an outstanding job - of enriching himself whilst stuffing up NZ's capital markets and being a hypocrite when it comes to upholding the highest standards expected from being the market operator and regulator.

Is the FMA investigating this glaring failure to disclose material information to the market before Mr Weldon sold the 2m shares?

Clear founder's 'unpleasant' tactics: NZX
PAUL MCBETH Last updated 12:02 08/07/2011

Stock exchange operator NZX has hit out at Grant Thomas's lawyer, accusing him of "unpleasant" tactics after details of a lawsuit over the Clear grain exchange were leaked to the media.

NZX stock dropped 4 per cent to $2.40 today after BusinessDay and the National Business Review reported that Thomas, who co-founded the Melbourne-based grain exchange before selling to NZX and becoming an employee, may seek as much as $17 million in earn-outs from the soured contract.

A lawsuit from Thomas would come after NZX filed its own action in the High Court this week over its A$6.4 million purchase of the Clear grain exchange in 2009, claiming "breach of warranty and related claims."

That suit named Thomas, grain exchange co-founder Dominic Pym and their companies Ralec Commodities Pty and Ralec Interactive Pty.

NZX said in an unattributed statement that Thomas's lawyer, Rob McGirr, had made "exaggerated and inaccurate" statements and suggestions of $17 million of earn-outs were "irresponsible".

BusinessDay said NZX was ordered to pay Thomas A$259,705 by a Melbourne court six weeks ago that was due under a settlement deal made last year.

"NZX is fully confident it has discharged its obligations appropriately and reasonably, and is not swayed by tactics of this nature - unpleasant though they may be," the company said in a statement.

"The earn-out targets for the Clear business were ambitious, which is why NZX agreed to these being classified as earn-outs, rather than to augment the original purchase price."

"I have nothing to add at this stage as we go through our various internal processes," NZX chairman Andrew Harmos told BusinessDesk in an email.

The media reports cast doubt on the foray into Australian grain. NZX chief executive Mark Weldon is quoted telling the Melbourne court in May that Clear was showing "a substantial economic loss."

BusinessDay said it may need to writedown the value of the asset, eroding first-half profit.

That was despite NZX referring to Clear in its annual report in March as "demonstrating real momentum," the report said.

NZX agreed to pay interests associated with Thomas and his partner Pym A$7 million in earn-outs if the Clear exchange hit certain targets, though these weren't met, Fairfax reported.

NZX said the grain tonnage has been growing season on season, but was "not sufficient to meet the earn-out targets agreed in connection with the Clear transaction."


The grain exchange was set up to take advantage of the break-up of the Australian Wheat Board monopoly, and was looking to capture a slice of the A$100 million to A$150 million growers spent annually on commissions to sell their products.

Grain trading was expected to add another suite to NZX's agricultural products, and came as it was in the process of setting up its dairy futures trading.

At the time of the sale, NZX said the grain exchange had registered more than 1,100 grain growers, 100 brokers and 200 buyers and bulk handlers across Australia are registered, and was set to link with a further 13,000 growers registered with GrainCorp, that country's largest grain bulk handler.

[CJ]

That was despite NZX referring to Clear in its annual report in March as "demonstrating real momentum," the report said.Did he give any indication of what direction that real momentum was? You were just assuming it was up. :)

Continuous dislosure is a hard call but he definately should have sold while that wasn't disclosed.

Anyone here going to put in a complaint? (I am not a holder)

[Balance]

Did he give any indication of what direction that real momentum was? You were just assuming it was up. :)

Continuous dislosure is a hard call but he definately should have sold while that wasn't disclosed.

Anyone here going to put in a complaint? (I am not a holder)

Up of course. Have you ever seen Mark Weldon allowing himself to be tainted with anything negative?

Why do you think NZX has such high turnover of staff? CFOs especially?

What is very disturbing is that the law suit was filed in May - so NZX and Mark Weldon were fully aware in Jnne when Weldon sold his shares that :

1. Grain was not doing well and NZX was taking a law suit against the ex-directors.

2. No attempt was made to correct the 'real momentum ..." comment from the Annual Report.

3. It took the Australians to disclose the information to the public before NZX even remotely thought of informing the market.

4. This statement speaks volume about the butt-covering that is already going on in NZX : ""I have nothing to add at this stage as we go through our various internal processes," NZX chairman Andrew Harmos told BusinessDesk in an email.

Ok, FMA - over to you to show you do believe in market integrity and proper disclosures of material information.

[Xerof]

Have you ever seen Mark Weldon allowing himself to be tainted with anything negative?



Balance, I'm reminded of the fact that Weldon refused to stand beside Brian Henry for a photoshoot at the DIL IPO launch.....

[Balance]

Balance, I'm reminded of the fact that Weldon refused to stand beside Brian Henry for a photoshoot at the DIL IPO launch.....

Haha ... like Helen Clark refusing to be side by side with and snubbing Owen Glenn at the Uni Auckland Owen Glenn Business School opening. Did not do Helen any good.

Weldon has conveniently got Andrew Harmos to reply to this episode of potential insider trading?

[Balance]

More like it.

According to NBR, NZX being investigated for breach of disclosure.

[Balance]

NZX obviously felt that it is a law unto itself.


FMA confirms NZX inquiry
TIM HUNTER Last updated 09:43 15/07/2011

The Financial Markets Authority has confirmed an inquiry into stock exchange operator NZX, after BusinessDay revealed comments by NZX chief executive Mark Weldon apparently at odds with market disclosures.

Last Friday BusinessDay reported details of a lawsuit and employment dispute involving NZX subsidiary the Clear grain exchange, acquired by NZX in 2009.

The lawsuit related to alleged deceptive conduct by the vendors of Clear - interests associated with former St Kilda football coach Grant Thomas and software specialist Dominic Pym.

Both were retained as employees by NZX after the deal, but an employment dispute led to the departure of Thomas last year.

In a Melbourne court hearing in May this year Weldon gave evidence that Clear was showing "a substantial economic loss".

"We've got another audit committee meeting coming up in June where we will look at what the actual numbers are against the purchase price - the business is not performing well," he said.

Published statements by NZX about Clear's performance were more positive. In its annual report published in March, NZX said Clear was "demonstrating real momentum, with trading currently tracking at four times the levels reached in the previous harvest.''

The FMA said it was aware NZX was undertaking an inquiry into matters relating to its subsidiary Clear grain exchange.

''We have asked some questions of NZX and we are following their inquiry with interest. We expect to hear their conclusions late this week or early next.''

As a stock exchange issuer, NZX is subject to its own listing rules, enforced by the special division of the NZX Markets Disciplinary Tribunal.

The FMA has a statutory responsibility to oversee the compliance of listed issuers, including NZX itself, with their continuous disclosure obligations.

[Xerof]

FMA is off to a good start then - tasty case to sink a new set of teeth into

[Balance]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10738763

Contrast the two statements :

"Continuing the commodities exposure available through NZX, the Clear Grain Exchange in Australia is demonstrating real momentum, with trading currently trading at four times the levels reached in the previous harvest." March 2011

"We've got another audit committee meeting coming up in June where we will look at what the actual numbers are as against the purchase price - the business is not performing well," he said.
"There is a substantial economic loss, there is a substantial cash flow loss in Australia." May 2011

And as per usual, Mr Weldon is nowhere to be seen or heard as this is not good for his image. The spin machine has gone into overdrive :

NZX chairman Andrew Harmos said it was not right to say the NZX was under investigation.

"It is not a big, sensational matter at all. It is normal routine inquiry ... and they are awaiting the outcome of our review which we will announce as soon as it is completed."

Accounting firm KPMG had been called in to compile a report for the NZX's audit committee, Harmos said.

Very careful use of words. Not a big sensational thing according to the spin machine. Why then bring in KPMG to compile a report? Will the audit committee answer the question why NZX, Mr Weldon and Mr Harmos saw fit not to advise the market that the Clear grain business is not doing well. Especially when Mr Weldon sold 2m shares after an upbeat AGM and brokers' presentations.

[winner69]

"Cowboys belong in the movies" says the FMA

Good to see they are going after a high profile cowboy .... doubt whether it will come too much though

Not a good look though - but then we ordinary folk just don't get it - its just a ruse for the rich to screw the ordinary folk .... and they are doing a good job

For one 'setting the standards' interesting to see that NZX don't put much emphasis on reporting their NPAT - all they concentrate on is what they call EBITDAF .... goodness gracious

Never really studied NZX as a company but I thought with a market cap of nearly $300m they must be making heaps and was surprised to see they only made $10m (real profit after the ITDAF bits) last year

just a rave .... doesn't matter cause they will continue on their merry way and be cowboys ... and setting the standards ... we should be proud of them

[Balance]

Oh dear, NZX has just scored an own goal in its case in Australia?

Watch out now for the Australians to go for the jugular in court.

NZX audit clears market disclosure
TIM HUNTER Last updated 10:40 18/07/2011

Stock exchange operator NZX has confirmed the value of its Clear grain exchange remains unimpaired after comments by CEO Mark Weldon came to light apparently casting doubt on its performance.

In a statement published to the market this morning, NZX said its audit and risk committee had carried out a thorough review, of the Australian unit with the help of accountancy firm KPMG, over the last 10 days.

''KPMG have reported to the Audit Committee that in their view there are no factors indicating that there is an impairment issue that should be signalled in NZX's accounts,'' it said.

''The board confirms that the carrying value of the CGX asset on the NZX Group balance sheet remains unchanged.''

The statement followed concern from the Financial Markets Authority over the accuracy of NZX disclosure relating to Clear, triggered by comments from CEO Mark Weldon apparently at odds with the company's published accounts.

In evidence relating to an employment dispute given to a Melbourne court in May, Weldon said two years after acquiring Clear the business was struggling to gain customers.

''We've got another audit committee meeting coming up in June where we will look at what the actual numbers are as against the purchase price - the business is not performing well. There is a substantial economic loss, there is a substantial cash flow loss in Australia.''

The NZX annual report published in March had said Clear was ''demonstrating real momentum, with trading currently tracking at four times the levels reached in the previous harvest.''

In its statement today, NZX said Weldon's reference to a substantial economic loss ''was intended, in context, to refer to the periods ending 31 December 2009 and 31 December 2010.

The comments were also directed at the context of CGX - not the NZX Group. Those amounts had already been included in the NZX 2009 and 2010 full year financial accounts.

''Therefore Mr Weldon's comments, in addition to being specific to two previous calendar years and limited to the CGX business alone, were both historically accurate and not material in the context of the NZX Group as a whole. They were not intended to refer, as has been implied, to either the current or prospective performance of CGX, or the NZX Group.''

NZX said to sustain Clear's the current carrying value in its accounts, Clear ''needs to achieve market share in relevant market segments (i.e. not the entire Australian grain market) at or around 7 per cent by 2015, which is not materially above current market share levels. CGX is currently estimated at around 4 per cent of the relevant market.''

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NZX also said share sales by Weldon disclosed on July 1 had been made with approval of the board.

''The board confirms, including based on the information in this release, that NZX has been and remains in compliance with its continuous disclosure obligations, including at the time Mr Weldon received consent to trade and placed an order to sell shares in NZX Limited.''

Clear was acquired by NZX in 2009 for about $8.8 million from its founders, former Aussie rules football coach Grant Thomas and software specialist Dominic Pym, who had started the business a year earlier.

Its value in NZX accounts as of December was mainly an intangible asset relating to the software of $7.8m.

NZX filed a lawsuit against Thomas and Pym in Wellington High Court on July 5, alleging misleading or deceptive conduct relating to the Clear deal.

[Steve]

When is the Aussie court case happening?

[Rusty]

Anyone been on the new NZX website?

[chippy52]

Yes. Not a fan of the new layout. Nowhere near the same info as the old system.

[Rusty]

Agree. The charting system use to be reasonably good, with many indicators to choose from. Now it sucks

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Well what did you expect it is the NZX should have been amalgamated with the ASX years ago

[zigzag]

And you can't scroll thru the whole market and get bids and offers at a glance. You have to click on each stock individually, which is time wasting, and you lose that overall impression. Has anyone spotted any actual improvements yet?

[RazorX]

Also I can't find any quick news links - they used to supply headlines as it happened, now the only news link I found on the site you have to pay for. Maybe we should do their survey and tell them what's wrong with the site.... which is pretty much everything. Even the Biggest gainers and losers only shows % of movement now and not the actual $ moved.


DANG the charting system is useless! Cannot specify multiple MA's of my own choosing, very few other indicators. Can only go back two years... sometimes I like to see how a stock has performed for up to 5 years. Now we will have to rely on external charting packages. Can we download NZX data straight to another charting software?

[Under Surveillance]

It looks a quite pretty, like a bogged up rust bucket given a quick spray job. Functionally, it's gone backwards, big time. Aim must be to require people to subscribe for what was free?

[waikare]

Anyone been on the new NZX website?
It's terrible, shoddier than the IRD site.

[Joshuatree]

Ive got it ;you guys are all current or ex sharebrokers ,riigghhtt :)

[Ekrub]

Try using the sharemarket info on the NZ City website. You'll see the
box on the right with the letters of the alphabet in clusters of three,
for the stocks beginning with those letters. It is an hour delayed, but
makes up for a lot of what NZX has taken from us. I'm still hosed off
at losing the share prices on teletext, now we have to go on-line to
chase up the latest, instead of a quick check while watching telly.

http://home.nzcity.co.nz/finance/sharemarket/

[yabster]

agree re the charting use to have some good indicators to select from - i.e obv etc- now its just moving averages - - hopeless !! I have just taken the opportunity to give Mr Weldon the feedback he has asked for on the homepage.

[Lebowski]

Thanks for the link Ekrub

[Billy Boy]

[QUOTE=Ekrub;352625] I'm still hosed off
at losing the share prices on teletext, now we have to go on-line to
chase up the latest, instead of a quick check while watching telly.

ME TOO !!!
Maybe some one might take up the pages...
Since they have gone I have not watch Teletext... I used to flick lots of those pages.
Especially when I was at my crib. Only media I could get.
BB

[Lizard]

I'm just back from holiday, went to sort out the end-of-month for the ST competition and came up against the new website... arghhhh!

It would not be so bad if it wasn't that NZX hogs so much info that is only accessible through MyNZX - entire announcements come out with the "the attached announcement has been provided to the NZX" as the sole info available through alternative links. Actually, I wonder if we could persuade the FMA to do something about it!

Anyway, off to track down any divs I can... let me know on the comp thread if there are any other than ZIN for this month! Oh, and I have the SCT recap in there too...

[janner]

and came up against the new website... arghhhh!

Could not agree with you more Lizard..

[yabster]

got some feedback after I emailed nxz re graphs etc:


We're working to add more functionality to the graphs.

For the search bar, enter # before a code to jump straight to the page. We need to add in the search results step as a consequence of breaking out the different instruments from the one issuing company, but do appreciate it can slow searching down.

[Lizard]

Further to my previous post, it might be bad for chartists - but at least you can get charts elsewhere... for the fundamental investors, there is often no other way to get info from some announcements, and having only the last 5 announcements accessible for any stock or day is a joke!

[Lizard]

Phew! I just found the link to the announcements... not as straightforward as it was (since the markets are now separated), but at least they are all there! :)

[waikare]

agree re the charting use to have some good indicators to select from - i.e obv etc- now its just moving averages - - hopeless !! I have just taken the opportunity to give Mr Weldon the feedback he has asked for on the homepage.

I also have given feedback as requested on their update site, along the lines it's bloody useless

[Lizard]

I am going to put in a good word for them now. The good word is that they actually answered my e-mails - two of them! This has to be a good thing, since I have had two or three ignored in the past (okay, maybe it was 4 or 5 - I don't think I'm really hard-core querulous though...).

Sometimes it is hard not to come to the conclusion that the NZX does not actually want small retail investor/traders, but my faith (or at least hope) is now restored.

[chippy52]

What a waste of time changing the website. Yesterday I checked the " All Securities Board " everything above FBU had no trades shown at all. Just checked the board today and see it now shows trades for those missing yesterday. The price we pay for progress.

[Joshuatree]

Have you been pro active about it and contacted them?

[belgarion]

Have you been pro active about it and contacted them?

Pro Active? WTF! This is a quality issue that the NZX should be monitoring and have systems in place to correct any issue IMMEDIATELY!

Sheesh!

[Joshuatree]

Or is just another case of Mark weldon Envy.:)

[iceman]

Or is just another case of Mark weldon Envy.:)

I don't think people complaining about this utterly useless new website has anything to do with "Mark weldon envy". Investors just want easy access to information through the NZX website, something that is much harder to do since they changed their website.

[Balance]

Or is just another case of Mark weldon Envy.:)

It is indeed Mark Weldon envy.

By any measure (save monopoly profits at the expense of a vibrant and growing stock market), the NZX has gone backwards and downhill but Mark gets a big share of that monopoly profit - so very very envious.

NZ is already paying the price and future generations will continue to pay the price as all the rewarding and well-paying jobs and opportunities in the financial sector disappear overseas.

Think about it.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Mark Weldon seems to get bonuses for reducing the size of the company, look at the number of companies listed on the NZX now compared with the number listed when he took charge of the NZX. In 1998 the NZ Herald had over A page of Financial listings. N ow it is lucky to have a Quarter of a page of NZX listings

[_Michael]

Mark Weldon seems to get bonuses for reducing the size of the company, look at the number of companies listed on the NZX now compared with the number listed when he took charge of the NZX. In 1998 the NZ Herald had over A page of Financial listings. N ow it is lucky to have a Quarter of a page of NZX listings

This comment is so stupid that it does not belong in the forum.

NZX Limited has grown EBIT from a loss-making state owned dog ten years ago to diversified cash cow that is not just reliant on listings and earns EBIT of $16m

The lack of listings has been structural in many other countries including US where there was also a decline.

Australia have been more lucky as every Australian has been saving 8% of their income for the last 20 years. All of that has been going into the share market and connecting with entrepreneurs who need capital.

Weldon has diversified revenue streams our of necessity because ignorant tall poppy syndrome types like Possum have refused to save their money and invest in Kiwis with entrepreneurial vision like Weldon.

What have you done lately Possum to contribute to the strengthening of our markets and the prosperity of our country? Should we leave this task up to one person and then criticize them for not achieving it?

Reading these forums it is really no surprise we are going backwards. Very sad indeed...

[Joshuatree]

Excellent post Mike with true words. Ive made great money out of NZX (and intend to again) because of Mark Weldons leadership in modernising and rejuvenating NZX. Ironic that so many of the brokers (the old boys group) had tall poppy problems with Mark and the NZX that they sold their Free NZX allocations early and missed the fab gains; what does that say about their stockpicking skills:)

[Joshuatree]

No wonder NZ is such a deadbeat nation.[/QUOTE] Does this sound BALANCED:D

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Michael The NZX is a service company. And it has sacrificed service for profit eventually it will disintegrate. The high fees have IMO sent several brokers to the wall & other companies to list on other exchanges. 90% of my share investing is now on the ASX as there is F/All left on the NZX. I do not wish to repeat myself on my opinion of Mark Weldon, Please note the ASX is not listed on the ASX

[Titus]

This is something from the website I find hard to understand ...

"Interactive charts not supported in this browser. Please consider Google Chrome or Firefox."

WTF?

So they can support Chrome and Firefox (who the hell uses that?), but they can't support IE9? Guess I will have to stick with ASB securities' much more user friendly website (which does support Explorer).

[belgarion]

I suspect that the NZX is actively reviewing their relationship with the web design/build company that did their new web site ... Anyone know who it was? Inhouse effort? Related party?

[Titus]

Highly unlikely it would be an in-house job. It would be pointless having fulltime paid staff to manage a website when there are so many capable web developers out there who know how to get the job done properly. The NZX site does have a certain "clunkiness" to it though. Maybe they bought cheap, got cheap?

[minimoke]

It would be pointless having fulltime paid staff to manage a website when there are so many capable web developers out there who know how to get the job done properly. The NZX site does have a certain "clunkiness" to it though. Maybe they bought cheap, got cheap?
Thats never stopped many companies doing stuff in-house because they have no understanding of the value external experts can bring.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Done on the cheap. Take it or leave it. Make bigger profits at all cost seem to me to M Weldon's philosophy. Never mind pandering to the Investors & Traders providing the profits. The Old Web site was more use than the new one.

[belgarion]

http://www.directbroking.co.nz/directtrade/dynamic/announcement.aspx?id=2975744

NZX won't be winning the "Plain English" award any time soon ... Shouldn't the FMA be addressing this?

[macduffy]

Yes, it is a bit obtuse but personally I don't have a problem with it. I assume the purpose is to ensure that companies make full disclosure of such transactions and don't try to cut corners in their announcements.

[winner69]

If you read the full form one fills out it makes perfect sense
https://www.nzx.com/files/attachments/151116.pdf

However I have always thought there should be an 'executive summary' at the top - like "Mr Prendergast as a result of his retirement his entitlement to various ahres and options has lapsed"

[Silverlight]

Michael The NZX is a service company. And it has sacrificed service for profit eventually it will disintegrate. The high fees have IMO sent several brokers to the wall & other companies to list on other exchanges. 90% of my share investing is now on the ASX as there is F/All left on the NZX. I do not wish to repeat myself on my opinion of Mark Weldon, Please note the ASX is not listed on the ASX

I don't think you understand how NZX generates its revenues; listing fees, trading fees, selling data. 10 years ago listing/ trading was 90% of revenues (service). Data is what has driven growth, and the likes of bloomberg, Iress, Reuters paying for NZX's data is what drives revenues. This is a generic product, of numbers, in a text string format, that is collected and crucnhed by computers. If NZX only had five listed companies tomorrow, in CEN, TEL, CNU, FBU, AIA the data buyers would still pay exactly the same amount.

I think there needs to be two threads on NZX, NZX the listed business, and NZX the market operator which is the subsidiary of the listed business. As a listed business there has been phenomenal growth in revenues and profits, exactly what shareholders like in any investment.

In the market operations from a stakeholder viewpoint trade volumes, trade values, and listed companies to invest in have been awful, you can blame Weldon, the NZ savings rate, the dodgy regulations, the property speculators, the small amount of businesses listing, the fact that we are an exporting nation, whatever you want, long term it won't change a great deal, until the government do something to promote (force) companies to list here.

ASX will always have more companies to invest in, so what? NYSE, SWX, LSE will have more again. It's as easy to buy NZ companies as ASX ones, what the heck does it matter where they are listed? What does it also matter how big the sharemarket quotes in the paper are? You buy shares to get returns, if you think NZX is going to keep increasing revenues, then you buy the stock when you think its valuable, if you don't, then say so, and give a reason why (ie the Euro crisis will lead to less foreign brokers subscribing for NZX's data which will impact revenues, or NZX's data is priced in USD, and the NZD is likely to outperform, leading to declining revenues in NZD for NZX)

Lastly ASX is listed on the ASX.

[macduffy]

Great post, Silverlight!

About time someone pointed out the difference (conflict?) between NZX as an investment and NZX as the market operator with a largely captive business - at this stage. You say many of the things I thought, but was too lazy to point out.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Silverlight why would you list With the NZX when listing with the ASX is a better deal. this is what Mark Weldon has done. I am more interested in the ASX as service & news plus the range of companies even NZ ones is better even though There is double taxation on most Australian Dividends. I am still clear better dividend returns of ASX stocks

[Silverlight]

Silverlight why would you list With the NZX when listing with the ASX is a better deal. this is what Mark Weldon has done. I am more interested in the ASX as service & news plus the range of companies even NZ ones is better even though There is double taxation on most Australian Dividends. I am still clear better dividend returns of ASX stocks

As an investor it does not matter which exchange a business is listed on, you can buy into both just as easily.

If ASX is a better deal, can you quantify that view? The only thing that makes ASX better, in my view, is the greater liquidity, but this does mean an NZ business listing on ASX will be liquid. Outside of top 200 the liquidity falls away fast. If you compare any NZX business vs a similar sized ASX business you will find the same low liquidity levels.

ASX vs NZX companies on your claim dividends are better, is not an NZX vs ASX issue, that is an economic issue, NZX doesn't control the economy.

Double taxation is a government issue not an NZX vs ASX issue, NZX is not the government.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Silverlight Brokers provide better service for less because the ASX has far lower fees than the NZX & it costs less to list on the ASX in comparison for a much larger market & better service. If the NZX is charging more it is not a govt. problem. Greed kills. Just go to a library & have a look at the financial section of the NZ Herald & see the difference in listings Basically unless there is some special need for listing on the NZX they go elsewhere, or stay private

[Silverlight]

Silverlight Brokers provide better service for less because the ASX has far lower fees than the NZX & it costs less to list on the ASX in comparison for a much larger market & better service. If the NZX is charging more it is not a govt. problem. Greed kills. Just go to a library & have a look at the financial section of the NZ Herald & see the difference in listings Basically unless there is some special need for listing on the NZX they go elsewhere, or stay private

Again I ask, please quantify your views, I don't know what better service means for you. Do you mean advice, research or execution? I can't tell the difference between execution on NZX or ASX other than liquidity which I have already highlighted.


If Telecom (3.9b Mcap) listed tomorrow on NZX is would be charged $817k and then and ongoing fee of $91k. On the ASX it would be charged $862k AUD (or $1.135m NZD at 76 cents) then an ongoing fee of $111k NZD.

If Mainfreight (950m Mcap) listed tomorrow on NZX is would be charged $294k and then and ongoing fee of $60k. On the ASX it would be charged $328k AUD (or $431k NZD at 76 cents) then an ongoing fee of $61k NZD.

If Rakon (90m Mcap) listed tomorrow on NZX is would be charged $71k and then and ongoing fee of $30k. On the ASX it would be charged $91k AUD (or $120k NZD at 76 cents) then an ongoing fee of $34k NZD.

These three random examples shows there is hardly any difference in ASX and NZX costs, and that ongoing listing fees are basically irrelevant.

What costs are you referring to when you say "ASX has far lower fees"?

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Silverlight point one for the same amount of fees you get a bigger market point Two why is brokerage from the Broker I use for an Australian trade less than half the price of a NZ trade of a reasonably large order & they have to pay an Australian broker as well it was even cheaper still when I could use an Australian Broker. Check with your broker how much they are charged every time you push the button for an instant price quote. And remember for the much smaller market the NZX should be far cheaper. I have yet to find an Australian broker that would even bother to trade the NZX for you. But bar for the fact that most of the Australian brokers require you to be an Australian resident. When I was dealing with Westpac Broking Australia it was about 40% of what Direct Broking are charging me
ANZ E Trade was even cheaper but had volume or cash deposited requirements that did not suit my requirements Just check the company information on the ASX web site compared with the NZX one

[winner69]

ASX up 1% yesterday when NZ closed and up another 1.5% again today ..... and the NZX does what .... allur stocks must have been over valued or something

[macduffy]

Perhaps it's more a case of the ASX getting carried away by a strong showing in the USA overnight. A classic "relief rally"?

Not much changed in the big picture - Euro/USA debt; sluggish world growth; etc - as far as I can see!

[belgarion]

W69, but look at the NZX trend in the last few days and the 50 is up 15+ percent against the AORD over the last year ... (sorry, looking for a silver lining) :)

[belgarion]

Just $20 mill traded thus far ... Obviously the big boys who'll be back at work are taking their time to get warmed up ... Belgie notes that trading in many small caps has just about come to a halt!

[belgarion]

End of day and just $40m traded!

Strip out the banks and the recent issues and sweet bagger all is going one ...

... except of course the invetable small trades at the end of the day in the small caps that ensure prices close below the VWAP ... :)

[macduffy]

Yes, not a lot has changed since the heady days - was it the 80's? - when NZ was going to be an important financial centre. First to trade each day! The fact is that most traders are on holiday in January - those that are left!

[Lizard]

Well, it's irritating, since this is the one time of year when some of us actually have enough time on our hands to try and clean out the portfolio.... I'm stuck in depth on quite a few trades and bugger-me-days if I don't seem to always get pinged for 100 shares and trigger the brokerage...:ohmy:

[zigzag]

Well, it's irritating, since this is the one time of year when some of us actually have enough time on our hands to try and clean out the portfolio.... I'm stuck in depth on quite a few trades and bugger-me-days if I don't seem to always get pinged for 100 shares and trigger the brokerage...:ohmy:

Don't you just hate it when that happens! I'm trying to pick up a few TEN. That's me at 70c. The action seems to have moved away from me at the moment, but I'm worried I'll end up with 250 shares and since there is such a large spread, I could end up in no mans land.

[janner]

Well that is why you call yourself ZigZag..

Win some .. lose some .. :-))

[janner]

" Just $20 mill traded thus far ... Obviously the big boys who'll be back at work are taking their time to get warmed up ... Belgie notes that trading in many small caps has just about come to a halt! "..

Are you saying Belg that it is the big boys are the main traders in " Small Caps ".. ??

[Lizard]

Don't you just hate it when that happens! I'm trying to pick up a few TEN. That's me at 70c. The action seems to have moved away from me at the moment, but I'm worried I'll end up with 250 shares and since there is such a large spread, I could end up in no mans land.

Several years ago, I had a buy on TEN and some sod crossed the spread and sold me 1 share.... I don't know how they are allowed to do that! It worked for them - after the contract note turned up that night, I gave up the next day and paid up to get a marketable parcel... However, I think there are probably rules on these things and some minimum amount at which I can ask the broker to cancel a trade? Never actually tried it though.

[belgarion]

" Just $20 mill traded thus far ... Obviously the big boys who'll be back at work are taking their time to get warmed up ... Belgie notes that trading in many small caps has just about come to a halt! "..

Are you saying Belg that it is the big boys are the main traders in " Small Caps ".. ??

No. Two separate observations. And by "small" I was including the likes of HBY, PPL, PGW, MHI, and quite a few other midcaps which just aren't seeing any significant volumes going through.

[belgarion]

Geez! The big boys and girls must still be holiday ...

Or are they saving their cash for the governments privatisations which will no doubt present a great stagging/long term opportunity as the govt will (no doubt) sell them off way below their worth! ... (G'dam the govt!)

Or is all the spare cash heading for US markets?

[Lizard]

Maybe ACC are on holiday? Who else buys the mid-caps? :)

I notice a few big "in" trades in morning trading on dual-listed shares over the past week - does this mean re-distribution occurring of NZ coys (e.g. FPA and GFF) from Aussie to NZ holders?

(Wonder if GFF expected to come out of an Aussie index now and that is triggering some of the selling?)

[Silverlight]

Silverlight point one for the same amount of fees you get a bigger market point Two why is brokerage from the Broker I use for an Australian trade less than half the price of a NZ trade of a reasonably large order & they have to pay an Australian broker as well it was even cheaper still when I could use an Australian Broker. Check with your broker how much they are charged every time you push the button for an instant price quote. And remember for the much smaller market the NZX should be far cheaper. I have yet to find an Australian broker that would even bother to trade the NZX for you. But bar for the fact that most of the Australian brokers require you to be an Australian resident. When I was dealing with Westpac Broking Australia it was about 40% of what Direct Broking are charging me
ANZ E Trade was even cheaper but had volume or cash deposited requirements that did not suit my requirements Just check the company information on the ASX web site compared with the NZX one


So your grievance with NZX is because your NZX broker charges you more to execute a trade than your ASX broker? Maybe you should use a different broker?

Direct is 20 basis points 29.90 min. Com Sec is 20 bp 19.95 min. Westpac Aus is 11 bp, 29.95 min, if you have an Aussie bank account, or 15 bp if you don't.

Honestly, if your focus on every $50K trade you do, is that your NZX broker charges you $100 vs $55 in Aus, then you are concentrating on the wrong thing.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

silverlight I am focusing on the over charging by the NZX for a very inferior service. I do not think it is sustainable so I will not buy shares in the company NZX. The same as I say F&P appliances are cr*p so I do not buy shares in FPH. Apparently you think the sun shines out of the rear end of the company NZX you are intitled to your opinion & I to mine. I think the NZX is a joke & we would be better of without it as a company it was far better as a mutual

[Silverlight]

silverlight I am focusing on the over charging by the NZX for a very inferior service. I do not think it is sustainable so I will not buy shares in the company NZX. The same as I say F&P appliances are cr*p so I do not buy shares in FPH. Apparently you think the sun shines out of the rear end of the company NZX you are intitled to your opinion & I to mine. I think the NZX is a joke & we would be better of without it as a company it was far better as a mutual

I don't think that NZX has done a great job with NZs markets, I already stated that a few pages back and I also don't currently own any NZX stock either, so my views are not biased by a position.

Overcharging again is not sitting with NZX but the brokers.

On the 50k scenario trade, where $100 goes to the NZX broker, roughly $3.50 of that goes to NZX. In Australia of the $55 fee the asx broker charges, about $2.20 goes to the ASX.

Those are not big cuts of your fees are they?

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Silverlight take all the fees into consideration what about the data charges Direct Broking say that every time you request a current quote it cost them Big Time & at times if you have not had a recent trade you only get the delayed quotes. There has been newspaper articles that companies considering listing that it would be more economical to list on the ASX but they are not known there so they do not become listed companies. Look at how the list of listed companies on the NZX has shrunk since the NZX became a Company not a Mutual. Possibly your problem is that you are working on a 50K scenario how many NZX trades are of that size?

[bermuda]

I know it is only a small point but it really peeves me that the NZX cannot give you news 1st hand. Instead it refers you to the company's website. Take Cue's latest announcement. To read it I just changed to CUE ASX. The ASX are much more on the ball.

[Silverlight]

Cue's announcement this morning is on NZX?

https://www.nzx.com/companies/CUE/announcements/219078
Click on the PDF.

[_Michael]

Cue's announcement this morning is on NZX?

https://www.nzx.com/companies/CUE/announcements/219078
Click on the PDF.


Funny thread!:D