The Hobbit

[Skol]

How far do we have to go to appease Jackson and Warner Bros?
I'm a capitalist and annoys me no end that the PM has to get involved. We could do all kinds of things to attract capital, for example, how long have we excluded the US Navy? We could've been replenishing their ships, taking money from sailors who've been at sea too long, even doing something with Whenuapai airfield, but The Hobbit takes centre stage.
Who cares?

[ratkin]

Will be good for most of the shares we all hold. Worth keeping at any cost imo . And thank goodness they have

[peat]

all the actors care Skol, and the people who sell stuff to the actors etc etc, money go round etc.
so yeh NZ cares....
though in principle I agree with you - the deal having now been made that a 500 million dollar movie will be made here at the cost of 7.5 million extra inducments strikes me as fantastic. well done John - he played a good role as a skilled negotiator I reckon. Something that maybe a PM shouldnt have to do but he's certainly adding value to the country so why not. Just like in his career hes a dealmaker and now he's earned his salary in a days work.

Of course the cost of this extra inducments is a good example of the currency wars having an obvious impact on NZ. maybe if Ben Bernanke keeps going then they can make these movies back in America at some stage (ie. at the lower wages the US worker can be the proverbial Mexican with a cellphone')

[STRAT]

I'll take a growing Movie industry over growing hooker and burger industries serving sailers who glow in the dark any day of the week. :D

[Skol]

I'll take a growing Movie industry over growing hooker and burger industries serving sailers who glow in the dark any day of the week. :D

John Key says Warner Bros were granted 'concessions'. Your hard earned tax dollars at work.

[fungus pudding]

John Key says Warner Bros were granted 'concessions'. Your hard earned tax dollars at work.

Yep. But it will be a hell of a good deal though for NZ. Better than the World cup.

[Major von Tempsky]

Actually Warner Bros must be rather dim....

The best time to strike would have been before they spent millions on NZ sets etc. That'll all be down the drain if they move offshore.

But it's all worth it to give the militant Aussie and NZ unions a good caning. Almost I wish we lose The Hobbit just so the unions get a good beating ;-)

[CJ]

Yep. But it will be a hell of a good deal though for NZ. Better than the World cup.Agree. And not just the movie industry and the money go around that will flow on, but also the tourism industry.

[Skol]

No collective memory I'm afraid guys, it's all been done before, about 30 years ago.

[Marilyn Munroe]

John (smile and wave) Key and Jerry (fissure king) Brownlee got played.

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

[Marilyn Munroe]

On further reflection I think that Jerry Brownlee should loose Crown Minerals.

If this is the best that he could do as a negotiator against some left coasters in the movie business, I shudder to think of the outcome if he was up against ExxonMobil.

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

[Kees]

maybe hone key and big jerry could star in their own movie laurel and hardy comes to mind and jackson as director.

[Aussie]

As someone who works in the industry this is a fantastic result. I think JK has done a great job negotiating this deal tying the additional sweeteners to film revenues. This is NZ$667m of foreign capital flowing into this country - something not to be sneezed at - more if you add in the boon to tourism and the NZ Image. This is G-R-E-A-T news IMO.

[fungus pudding]

As someone who works in the industry this is a fantastic result. I think JK has done a great job negotiating this deal tying the additional sweeteners to film revenues. This is NZ$667m of foreign capital flowing into this country - something not to be sneezed at - more if you add in the boon to tourism and the NZ Image. This is G-R-E-A-T news IMO.


I agree, and it's the right sort of tourism - spread over years rather than one big bubble. That is why I said it's better than the world cup. Relatively small investment with the possibility not just of a return from tourism and promotion, but a real anchor for the film industry. :)

[minimoke]

How far do we have to go to appease Jackson and Warner Bros?
I'm a capitalist and annoys me no end that the PM has to get involved. We could do all kinds of things to attract capital, for example, how long have we excluded the US Navy? We could've been replenishing their ships, taking money from sailors who've been at sea too long, even doing something with Whenuapai airfield, but The Hobbit takes centre stage.
Who cares?
I'm with you on this one Skol. NZ failure to allow US ships into our harbours has undoubtedly lost NZ business billions and the govt has missed out on milions in taxes. As we know the tax still gets collected so thats come from the NZ tax payer - us.

Now we have National being played as a sucker. The Hobbit had already made significant investments in NZ - it was possible for them to walk but unlikely. They have now just had the pot sweetened. If Key was such a negotiator he would have built in a profit share clause or something sumilar to recoup the tax breaks.

The contractor issue was just a red herring. We have National once again passing legislation under urgency. Once again it won't be well thought out and won't solve the real problem since it focuses on a contrived problem. We also have the govt prepared to step into an industrial dispute - something they should leave to employers and their workers.

As for those dim witted actors. Being led by the global warming expert Robin Malcolm and an Ozzie unionist it was bound to turn to custard. Not content with being govt sanctioned beneficiaries the actors want more - they are likely to be more of a drain on our taxes than a gain.

As for the marketing of NZ aspect what a crock of ****e. Visit Hobbitland (the inhabitants probably share the same intellectual capacity) drive past the wind farms and dairy irrigation and visitors are in for a disappointment.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Have to laugh at the dimwits saying National got played for suckers by Warner Bros. Did Warner Bros conspire with an Australian Union and other marxists to have an actors boycott of their own picture? I don't think so.
Now Key has secured a razor sharp deal. National tidies up the messy employment law, and for $10 million extra subsidy there will be a promo on New Zealand on every DVD of the 2 Hobbit movies sold. How much is that really worth? Probably billions. That is one hell of a deal.
No wonder Helly Kelly looks like she's been sucking on a lemon.

National is forking over to Warner Bros our tax dollars??? No, Warner Bros spend $600 million here that we didn't have before, and they get to keep more of their own money. Why shouldn't everybody win? The government wins, kiwi workers win, our economy wins, Warner Bros wins.....sounds fair to me.

The only losers are the CTU, the Australian Union, Labour, and every grumpy, bitter, paranoid Marxist out there. Good job.

[robo]

Have to laugh at the dimwits saying National got played for suckers by Warner Bros. Did Warner Bros conspire with an Australian Union and other marxists to have an actors boycott of their own picture? I don't think so.
Now Key has secured a razor sharp deal. National tidies up the messy employment law, and for $10 million extra subsidy there will be a promo on New Zealand on every DVD of the 2 Hobbit movies sold. How much is that really worth? Probably billions. That is one hell of a deal.
No wonder Helly Kelly looks like she's been sucking on a lemon.

National is forking over to Warner Bros our tax dollars??? No, Warner Bros spend $600 million here that we didn't have before, and they get to keep more of their own money. Why shouldn't everybody win? The government wins, kiwi workers win, our economy wins, Warner Bros wins.....sounds fair to me.

The only losers are the CTU, the Australian Union, Labour, and every grumpy, bitter, paranoid Marxist out there. Good job.
Couldnt agree more Fingers, attitude and perspective is everything, In personally know a group of young fellas and ladies that I have known since they were at high school who have been transformed by the industry around PJ; who are now able to say they have worked on some of the biggest film projects ever in incredibly diverse and creative feilds earning way more than they could have ever imagined

[Skol]

It's all been done before.
Goodbye Pork Pie, Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence, films the Govt. coughed up for because someone in Parliament about 30 years ago had a good idea that NZ would be a filmmakers paradise.
Then Helen Clark said NZ would be the world's techno capital and threw heaps of taxpayer money at that. Another good idea that sunk after it lost initial enthusiasm by our elected officials.
It's all a flash-in-the-pan, a oncer.
Instead of concentrating on what could make NZ great long term our elected officials throw millions at 'good ideas' that bomb.

[peat]

funny I would've sworn LOTR was a huge success Skol.
of course govts trying to pick winners isnt a great idea however when the immediate payoff is virtually assured then the possible payoff over the longer term is worth the investment.
its effectively de-risked from day 1

[Logen Ninefingers]

It's all been done before.
Goodbye Pork Pie, Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence, films the Govt. coughed up for because someone in Parliament about 30 years ago had a good idea that NZ would be a filmmakers paradise.
Then Helen Clark said NZ would be the world's techno capital and threw heaps of taxpayer money at that. Another good idea that sunk after it lost initial enthusiasm by our elected officials.
It's all a flash-in-the-pan, a oncer.
Instead of concentrating on what could make NZ great long term our elected officials throw millions at 'good ideas' that bomb.

I don't think The Lord of The Rings / Avatar / The Hobbit / Weta Studios et al can be compared to Goodbye Pork Pie and Merry Xmas Mr Lawrence. It's a different era and the NZ film industry is a living, breathing entity. We have large international projects here and we also have good local product like Boy / Whale Rider etc.

No one's "throwing taxpayer money" at anything. Warner Bros are bringing money here we wouldn't have otherwise, and they are being given tax rebates. They are not coming here to rob us of NZ dollars that the government is diverting to them.

Why is job creation not being welcomed by the left? They hammer the government on employment figures. It makes me think that the left would rather have people on the dole and unionised than independent and in paid work. Surely tax rebates that provide NZers with jobs is better than paying out the dole to thousands of unemployed workers?? Can the left-wingers not see this or are they so bitter and twisted that they choose not to see it?? Are the left now attacking kiwi workers? Is anyone with a job now included in the ranks of the "rich pricks"? Is Labour becoming a party only for dole-bludgers, unions, & unionised workers??

[minimoke]

funny I would've sworn LOTR was a huge success Skol.

No doubt it was. Lets not forget LOTR success was also running off the back of Americas Cup. But what about these other films - how much have they contributed to the NZ economy:

Jumper (anyone seen that one?)
The Day The Earth Stood Still
They Came From Upstairs (the tourists are flocking here after that release)
Underworld3
Power Rangers - thats an investment for the future.

We are facing a government essentially happy to provide subsidies. I thought we had moved past that but clearly there are some industries more special than others.

What we have here is essentially a public win for National - they earnt lots of brownie points in public perception. They also have a win as the dumb union comes out looking like a looser. John Key, the white knight in shining armour also comes out of this smelling of roses - though he doesn't need the wins at the moment. The unemployed actors move from being a government dole beneficiary to a government tax subsidy beneficiary. Post production wins (which is possibly where the investment should be made) so thats a win for Wellington where the public servants live so a win for National. Tourism won't be a major winner - most people attracted to NZ through LOTR will already have made the journey. If LOTR couldn't bring them in Hobbit won't to the same extent. Its a win for solicitors since rather than having clear judge made law they will now have Gerry Built legislation passed in haste - always a good thing for collecting legal fees.

Lets now look forward to a government opening up its chequebook for all manner of feel good enterprises and investment into areas best left to the private sector.

[Logen Ninefingers]

No doubt it was. Lets not forget LOTR success was also running off the back of Americas Cup. But what about these other films - how much have they contributed to the NZ economy:

Jumper (anyone seen that one?) Who cares if anyone saw it - if money was spent in our ecomony and kiwi workers were employed, we won
The Day The Earth Stood Still If money was spent in our ecomony and kiwi workers were employed, we won
They Came From Upstairs (the tourists are flocking here after that release) Who cares if anyone saw it - if money was spent in our ecomony and kiwi workers were employed, we won
Underworld3 If money was spent in our ecomony and kiwi workers were employed, we won
Power Rangers - thats an investment for the future. If money was spent in our ecomony and kiwi workers were employed, we won

We are facing a government essentially happy to provide subsidies. I thought we had moved past that but clearly there are some industries more special than others.

What we have here is essentially a public win for National - they earnt lots of brownie points in public perception. They also have a win as the dumb union comes out looking like a looser. John Key, the white knight in shining armour also comes out of this smelling of roses - though he doesn't need the wins at the moment. The unemployed actors move from being a government dole beneficiary to a government tax subsidy beneficiary. Post production wins (which is possibly where the investment should be made) so thats a win for Wellington where the public servants live so a win for National. Tourism won't be a major winner - most people attracted to NZ through LOTR will already have made the journey. If LOTR couldn't bring them in Hobbit won't to the same extent. Its a win for solicitors since rather than having clear judge made law they will now have Gerry Built legislation passed in haste - always a good thing for collecting legal fees.

Lets now look forward to a government opening up its chequebook for all manner of feel good enterprises and investment into areas best left to the private sector.

No, let's not open the 'government chequebook for all manner of feelgood enterprises'. But if someone wants to bring $600 million dollars here and spend it here & employ thousands of Kiwi's in the process, while putting NZ tourism material into every DVD release, lets look for a way to help them do it. ...But let's not have the government directly funding every hare-brained scheme out there, as happened under Labour.
Do you see the difference?? Can you know see that making these movies here is an enormous opportunity for NZ? Lets not get hung up on idealogies....let's be pragmatic.

[Aussie]

It's all been done before.
Goodbye Pork Pie, Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence, films the Govt. coughed up for because someone in Parliament about 30 years ago had a good idea that NZ would be a filmmakers paradise.
Then Helen Clark said NZ would be the world's techno capital and threw heaps of taxpayer money at that. Another good idea that sunk after it lost initial enthusiasm by our elected officials.
It's all a flash-in-the-pan, a oncer.
Instead of concentrating on what could make NZ great long term our elected officials throw millions at 'good ideas' that bomb.

A flash in the pan . . ? A oncer . . .? Are you for real . . ? I just don't get your sour attitude.

Have you no understanding of the enormous impact the film industry has had on the NZ economy and it's image overseas? I have travelled a lot and lived in the US during the LOTR series and I can tell you that almost EVERYONE associates those films with NZ and it does inspire people to travel here. We have had serval friends from the US and the UK travel our way in large part influenced by the desire to see the magical place they saw depicted in those films. The tourism numbers confirm the connection in a big way - it's irrefutable.

Plus, another flow on effect is that NZ is a mega destination for overseas international line production. All kinds of big-budget overseas commercials are filmed here all year round for premium brands like BMW, Heineken, Sony etc but especially in our winter. These productions are interested in the great locations but importantly they know they can rely on the highly skilled NZ crews and their can-do attitude. These productions get NO tax breaks and bring in many 10's of millions of additional overseas revenue into the local economy. I know because I often work on them! The success of LOTR is a big part of NZ's reputation as an outstanding film making destination.

" . . . good ideas that bomb" Really . . ? The Hobbit is about as guaranteed to be a success as any film could ever hope to be. There is a huge worldwide audience that are waiting to see these films and their release will be a huge event. I think JK "gets it" and his decision to tie the deal sweeteners to revenue is a pretty safe bet for NZ taxpayers. 10-15 years ago, Australia had a buoyant film industry during that period they shot The Matrix, Star Wars, Mission Impossible films etc, but the unions absolutely screwed the film industry there. Now they are green with envy at NZ's continued success (of which they have no control over . . .) and are trying to screw the NZ film industry. That's the dirty little fact that no-one has really talked about in this whole debate.

FACT: Australia's film industry has declined significantly while NZ's has blossomed. Why is that . . ?

The truth is . . . these big international productions have all sorts of options available to them in terms of countries wanting their business and I think we are damn lucky to have averted a potential disaster with The Hobbit. It's a competitive world out there and thank God JK understands that. Well done I say . . .

[minimoke]

.. The tourism numbers confirm the connection in a big way - it's irrefutable.

Actually they don't. in 2010 there were 142 more holiday visitors to NZ than there were in 2007. 142! And that was during a time when 60 movies were made in NZ. Visitors are now spending around $8,000 each so thats an extra $1.1m thank you very much.

A much bigger drawcard is people visiting friends and relatives - there were 96,000 more visitors on that basis. Perhaps what the govt should be doing is giving money to locals to encourage their mates to come here. Hang giving tax payer money back to tax payers - something wrong there!

[Aussie]

. . . there were 142 more holiday visitors to NZ than there were in 2007. 142!

Link please . . .

Not suggesting you are wrong, but clearly during that time frame the over-riding factor for such a small growth in the number of visitors must be the GFC.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Actually they don't. in 2010 there were 142 more holiday visitors to NZ than there were in 2007. 142! And that was during a time when 60 movies were made in NZ. Visitors are now spending around $8,000 each so thats an extra $1.1m thank you very much.

A much bigger drawcard is people visiting friends and relatives - there were 96,000 more visitors on that basis. Perhaps what the govt should be doing is giving money to locals to encourage their mates to come here. Hang giving tax payer money back to tax payers - something wrong there!

Tourism has overtaken the dairy industry as our biggest earner; we're on to a winner, so let's give it a boost. NZ tourism material on every Hobbit DVD is gold to NZ....$10 million is nothing compared to what we'll get back in return.

....Meanwhile you're stuck back in the 80's with Goodbye Pork Pie....

[minimoke]

Link please . . .
in 2007 there were 1,205,315 visitors to NZ who came here for the purpose of a holiday or vacation. In 2010 there were 1,205,457

In 2007 there were 700,822 visitors who came here to visit friends and relatives. In 2010 there were 796,351.

Incidentally only half the visitors to NZ come here for a holiday. So while the Hobbit (or NZ scenery) may be of interest it is not the reason why people will come here.

As an aside check out the increase in businesses people like Jucy rentals and Backpackers are experiencing. Low rent tourists ****ting in our by-ways spending as little as they can. We don't need 1b hobbit DVD's shot gunned out to an unidentified market, we need high spend tourists as we are too far away from market and susceptible to fluctuating FX to make us a great market for volume travelers.

Don't follow the sheeple - DYOR

[Aussie]

As a result of JK's bargaining, a yet to be filmed NZ Tourism trailer is now required to be attached to the front of both films so it will be seen before EVERY screening of the films, in theaters, on DVD, NetFlicks and iTunes downloads, in every country around the world . . . that will be hundred's of million of captive viewers from release till eternity being shown the wonders of NZ. As far as I'm concerned, that's a stroke of marketing genius that makes the tax payers contribution cheap.

[minimoke]

Tourism has overtaken the dairy industry as our biggest earner; we're on to a winner, so let's give it a boost. NZ tourism material on every Hobbit DVD is gold to NZ....$10 million is nothing compared to what we'll get back in return.

....Meanwhile you're stuck back in the 80's with Goodbye Pork Pie....
Pirates of the Caribbean is about the second top DVD seller (behind LOTR) - have you got your ticket to the Bahamas booked.
If people think the Hobbit is the saviour to NZ's economic woes then they'll no doubt be seen enjoying the same vistas on our new cycleways.

I'd not be knocking Goodbye pork pie. If it wasn't for the likes of Ian Mune and Geoff Murphy we wouldn't have a film industry.

[Logen Ninefingers]

in 2007 there were 1,205,315 visitors to NZ who came here for the purpose of a holiday or vacation. In 2010 there were 1,205,457

In 2007 there were 700,822 visitors who came here to visit friends and relatives. In 2010 there were 796,351.

Incidentally only half the visitors to NZ come here for a holiday. So while the Hobbit (or NZ scenery) may be of interest it is not the reason why people will come here.

As an aside check out the increase in businesses people like Jucy rentals and Backpackers are experiencing. Low rent tourists ****ting in our by-ways spending as little as they can. We don't need 1b hobbit DVD's shot gunned out to an unidentified market, we need high spend tourists as we are too far away from market and susceptible to fluctuating FX to make us a great market for volume travelers.

Don't follow the sheeple - DYOR

Why are you quoting figures from 2007 and 2010? The Lord of The Rings movies were released in 2001, 2002 and 2003, so why are you releasing these subjective figures from 2007 - four years after the last of the movies was released - and 2010? Where are the figures for the years 2001 onwards so we can really gauge the impact?

While The Lord of the Rings trilogy was being filmed, $650 million was spent in New Zealand; those movies received tax breaks of a value unknown – but estimated at $200 million.
Yet this government will provide $100 million in support to a $600 million project PLUS we get NZ Tourism material on every DVD. That is surely a better deal that the LOTR deal.

Remember, you never see all this Union action under Labour governments. Much of what is happening is being doing to advance the left-wing political agenda. So far the Union offensive has back-fired.

[minimoke]

Why are you quoting figures from 2007 and 2010? The Lord of The Rings movies were released in 2001, 2002 and 2003, so why are you releasing these subjective figures from 2007 - four years after the last of the movies was released - and 2010? Where are the figures for the years 2001 onwards so we can really gauge the impact?

While The Lord of the Rings trilogy was being filmed, $650 million was spent in New Zealand; those movies received tax breaks of a value unknown – but estimated at $200 million.
Yet this government will provide $100 million in support to a $600 million project PLUS we get NZ Tourism material on every DVD. That is surely a better deal that the LOTR deal.

Remember, you never see all this Union action under Labour governments. Much of what is happening is being doing to advance the left-wing political agenda. So far the Union offensive has back-fired.
Because the tourist stats during that period get clouded by Americas Cup which injected $530m into the economy. And because you don't release a movie and expect to see an immediate influx of visitors. And if you want to see specular growth you'd be looking at the conference visitor numbers over that period - there was a much bigger % increase in numbers on that front compared with holiday visitors.

[Aussie]

. . . If people think the Hobbit is the saviour to NZ's economic woes then they'll no doubt be seen enjoying the same vistas on our new cycleways.

Come on, no-one is suggesting that the film industry is the savior of the NZ economy. But this one project alone is 2/3 of $1B infusion of overseas capital into our economy. In my opinion, that's a lot more productive than that great Kiwi pastime of using borrowed money to sell each other the same properties back and forth at ever increasing prices . . .

[Logen Ninefingers]

Because the tourist stats during that period get clouded by Americas Cup which injected $530m into the economy. And because you don't release a movie and expect to see an immediate influx of visitors. And if you want to see specular growth you'd be looking at the conference visitor numbers over that period - there was a much bigger % increase in numbers on that front compared with holiday visitors.

So says you....why would tourism stats be distorted by a one-off event from 2003? One in ten visitors from the peiod in which the films were being released admitted that they were directly influenced by the LOTR movies in coming to NZ. This meant an extra $1.6 billion dollars to our economy per year.

[minimoke]

Come on, no-one is suggesting that the film industry is the savior of the NZ economy.

‘Hobbit’ Labor Dispute Resolved, New Zealand Economy Saved" - Don't take my word for it. http://blogs.forbes.com/dorothypomerantz/2010/10/27/hobbit-labor-dispute-resolved-new-zealand-economy-saved/

[minimoke]

But this one project alone is 2/3 of $1B infusion of overseas capital into our economy.
As I understand it 1/3 of your 2/3s is the approx budget for post production work. And I haven't heard yet that Weta Workshops have secured that part of the deal.

[Logen Ninefingers]

‘Hobbit’ Labor Dispute Resolved, New Zealand Economy Saved" - Don't take my word for it. http://blogs.forbes.com/dorothypomerantz/2010/10/27/hobbit-labor-dispute-resolved-new-zealand-economy-saved/

A direct quote follows from the author of that piece - which you can see at the bottom of the article in the comments: "That was meant to be tongue in cheek. I firmly believe that New Zealand would have been OK if the country had lost The Hobbit production regardless of any short-term consequences".

[minimoke]

A direct quote follows from the author of that piece - which you can see at the bottom of the article in the comments: "That was meant to be tongue in cheek. I firmly believe that New Zealand would have been OK if the country had lost The Hobbit production regardless of any short-term consequences".
So we didn't need to spend the $100m after all.

[Logen Ninefingers]

So we didn't need to spend the $100m after all.

New Zealand's screen industry employs 7000 people and supports 2673 companies. We could cancel the deal, and you can break the news to these people and companies.

[minimoke]

New Zealand's screen industry employs 7000 people and supports 2673 companies. We could cancel the deal, and you can break the news to these people and companies.

Ok here goes "hi guys you got a job at the moment but you wont have one in 370 days. You're fired". But we know that won't happen because this is an industry that can't sustain itself - it is totally reliant on government handouts.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Ok here goes "hi guys you got a job at the moment but you wont have one in 370 days. You're fired". But we know that won't happen because this is an industry that can't sustain itself - it is totally reliant on government handouts.

How much foreign exchange would the alternative - the 'benefit industry' - bring into New Zealand? $600 million? Would dissolving 2673 companies and putting 7000 people in the dole queue's inject $600 million into our economy?

[Skol]

Ok here goes "hi guys you got a job at the moment but you wont have one in 370 days. You're fired". But we know that won't happen because this is an industry that can't sustain itself - it is totally reliant on government handouts.

Correct, and farmers were told decades ago that SMP (Supplementary Minimum Prices) subsidies were over and they had to stand on their own 2 feet.
How many jobs does the farming industry in NZ provide? Heaps more than films and farming is the backbone of the NZ economy along with tourism.
Subsidies for films but none for anyone else, what hypocrisy.

[minimoke]

How much foreign exchange would the alternative - the 'benefit industry' - bring into New Zealand? $600 million? Would dissolving 2673 companies and putting 7000 people in the dole queue's inject $600 million into our economy?
Can't argue with that. No doubt all the socialists who think government intervention and subsidies are the way to go would also agree. Indeed I can't quite figure why there was a jibe at marxists earlier in the thread. Karl would be proud. Heres an example of capitalism being trodden on by government. Workers ability to freely negotiate their agreements is being legislated for. Government is paying for the marketing - so what we'll see and hear will be what government wants to tell us. Thespians are regarded as working class so we can see the proles getting the support and equality they so desperately yearn for. And government saw to those Bourgeoise Americans- they are coming to NZ under our terms now!

[Logen Ninefingers]

Can't argue with that. No doubt all the socialists who think government intervention and subsidies are the way to go would also agree. Indeed I can't quite figure why there was a jibe at marxists earlier in the thread. Karl would be proud. Heres an example of capitalism being trodden on by government. Workers ability to freely negotiate their agreements is being legislated for. Government is paying for the marketing - so what we'll see and hear will be what government wants to tell us. Thespians are regarded as working class so we can see the proles getting the support and equality they so desperately yearn for. And government saw to those Bourgeoise Americans- they are coming to NZ under our terms now!

So everyone's happy then? Great. I've got no problem with working class thespians getting some support. This is a government for all NZers, like JK said on election night.

[Aussie]

minimoke & Skol, I have to say that I can see and appreciate both sides of the argument and I'm arguing with myself at the moment . . .LOL. I like to consider myself a free market type guy so this IS challenging . . .

My problem is that before moving to NZ 5 years ago, I created, ran (10 years) and then cashed out of a very successful business in the US, I know that when you have staff and overhead, "a bird in the hand can be worth two in the bush". I was reluctant to EVER let work pass by knowing it could be done and we would make money in the process. As a company we competed for and aggressively persued EVERY project that came our way. I always knew that if we did not do it, someone else would. Certainly some projects were more lucrative than others but in the end we were a very profitable company with very high productivity and a well compensated and motivated staff (I always looked after my people). Some of the jobs that we "bought into" ended up leading to other things, new clients and continuing revenue streams. So I'm torn between what I think will be a high profile, big ticket win-win for NZ, and my free market conscience that says government has no place in private business dealings or at the least picking the winners and losers in the NZ economy. This is an interesting conundrum.

I HATE to say it, but if it weren't for government, that $670m would be going to Eastern Europe, our people would be out of work and our film industry's future would be questionable. Normally I hate to say that government has made a difference, but in this case I may have to . . .

[minimoke]

I HATE to say it, but if it weren't for government, that $670m would be going to Eastern Europe, our people would be out of work and our film industry's future would be questionable. Normally I hate to say that government has made a difference, but in this case I may have to . . .
I'm not so sure that the $670 would have definitely departed these shores. They had already made some pretty substantial investments in sets and are running behind filming schedule. They were probably beginning to run a bit behind budget. So what do you do. You pounce on an opportunity presented to you on a platter by some dumb Ozzuie unionist and exploit it to the max. You put the squeeze on whoever you can. Lets face it - the govts extra bit of cash in the pot is neither here or there. For us$26m could they have upsticks and gone to eastern europe? The change in labour laws is a non-event, the marketing on the front of the DVD is a great feel good. But they have got extra cash and cash is king.

If our film industry is questionable without government support should we really have a film industry? The Jesus movie that was to be filmed out of Tekapo was allowed to fold - where were the movie fans then - or is a religious theme a step too far? The whiteware manufacturing industry was questionable - and it didn't get govt support. That meant the whole town of Mosgiel lost their jobs. Why is Wellington more important than Mosgiel. The meat processing industry was questionable and hasn't received govt support - how many meat works have closed down over the years. I could go on, you'll get my drift.

Hobbit fans have been played like muppets. The real winners are the Govt and Warners

[Marilyn Munroe]

Some one posed to me this question.

If you were Warner Bros.

If you were making a Road Runner Movie.

If John Key auditioned for a part.

Would you offer him the role of Wile E. Coyote or Road Runner?

Boop boop de do

Marilyn

[Skol]

I doubt they would've gone to Eastern Europe.

Human right abuses
Chronic alcoholism
Poverty
Air Crashes
Assassinations
Organised crime
Extortion
Radiation
Human traffficking
Pollution
Language problems
Corruption

Just the place to spend a few months and hundreds of millions making a movie.

[peat]

lol
you ever been to Czech Republic or Slovakia Skol, I have.
not third world at all, pretty normal European places - good infrastructure, technically skilled people , but prices are a lot cheaper than Western Europe or NZ so yeh the movie could have gone there.
Lots of films are made there , pretty sure a James Bond movie was, so its a total possibility.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I doubt they would've gone to Eastern Europe.

Human right abuses
Chronic alcoholism
Poverty
Air Crashes
Assassinations
Organised crime
Extortion
Radiation
Human traffficking
Pollution
Language problems
Corruption

Just the place to spend a few months and hundreds of millions making a movie.

What an outdated picture you paint....the Berlin Wall fell a long time ago you know. Many films have been made at the Barrandov Studios in Prague. Hollywood movies set in Prague include Amadeus, Mission Impossible, Blade II, xXx, From Hell, Hart’s War, Casino Royale, League of Extraordinary Gentleman, The Brothers Grimm, the 2nd Chronicles of Narnia film.

Recent major events held in Prague:
NATO Summit 2002
International Monetary Fund and World Bank Summit 2000
International Olympic Committee Session 2004
International Astronomical Union General Assembly 2006
EU & USA Summit 2009
USA & Russia Summit 2010 (signing of the New START treaty)

[Skol]

I was flying over Russia a few months back and chatting to a Russian flight Attendant. Before she moved to England she lived about 400 miles east of Moscow.
She planned to visit but preferred to spend 24 hours on the train rather than fly for 1 hour because it was too dangerous.

Political assassinations are reasonably common and you'd have to be naive to expect that the local crime boss wouldn't want some of the action or else.

[Aussie]

Minimoke, have you ever owned a business? I mean invested all your capital and started something from scratch . . . ever had EVERYTHING at risk? Not a trick question, just wondering . . .

So I see James Cameron just announced today that he wants to make the next TWO Avatar films here in NZ. How many more $100's of millions will that also bring into the NZ economy? It's a NZ$2.8 Billion a year industry and growing. LOTR ... Avatar .... just two of THE most profitable film projects in entertainment history, produced in New Zealand, by New Zealander's. That's something to crow about. Something Australia is very jealous of . . .

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10683889

[fungus pudding]

Minimoke, have you ever owned a business? I mean invested all your capital and started something from scratch . . . ever had EVERYTHING at risk? Not a trick question, just wondering . . .

So I see James Cameron just announced today that he wants to make the next TWO Avatar films here in NZ. How many more $100's of millions will that also bring into the NZ economy? It's a NZ$2.8 Billion a year industry and growing. LOTR ... Avatar .... just two of THE most profitable film projects in entertainment history, produced in New Zealand, by New Zealander's. That's something to crow about. Something Australia is very jealous of . . .

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10683889

The filming of TV advertising is an industry in itself. Having watched TV ads in various countries I have long thought that NZ probably leads the world in these things. They are better than the programs. As Muldoon once famously said, 'the trouble with television programs is they interrupt the ads'.
The opportunity to build on advt. production is massive, and ther's huge money involved.

[robo]

Minimoke, have you ever owned a business? I mean invested all your capital and started something from scratch . . . ever had EVERYTHING at risk? Not a trick question, just wondering . . .

So I see James Cameron just announced today that he wants to make the next TWO Avatar films here in NZ. How many more $100's of millions will that also bring into the NZ economy? It's a NZ$2.8 Billion a year industry and growing. LOTR ... Avatar .... just two of THE most profitable film projects in entertainment history, produced in New Zealand, by New Zealander's. That's something to crow about. Something Australia is very jealous of . . .

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10683889
And these are only the ones in the press currently, there are others that he has been pouring millions into overthe last few year prepping resources for,there is a bunch of ideas,scripts stretching to the horizon on the slow burner.
Any one who is/was down on the deal that jon k did is a sad, deluded and short sighted as far as im concerned, we certainly are the envy of a lot of other country in regards to this industry.
As stated in a previous post by myself I can not believe the money that a group of people i know make in the tech and creative film fields , , more than most of my uni educated professional mates make, and they are all not thirty yet!

[Skol]

An excellent article in today's Herald by Brian Gaynor on the Hobbit deal and why "our political leaders are quick to respond to popular causes but are hopeless at developing a long-term economic strategy for the country".

[peat]

but note Skol hes only saying why we were in effect forced to do it, not that we shouldnt have.

[Skol]

Well the government backed South Canterbury Finance so if that's any indication of their business acumen I suppose anything's liable to happen, and desperate measures are needed to fill the coffers and keep people off the streets.
The Government has backed this deal because it's making them look good, but the fact is that this country's future has always been with tourism and farming, that's what we should be planning on for the future, and being a credible ally to Australia and the USA our major trading partners. If we hadn't enacted David Lange's hare-brained anti-nuclear legislation NZ would be heaps better off.

The anti-nuclear legislation, a classic example of herd instinct if ever I saw one.

NZ provides 25% of the world's dairy products, ever tried moving a dairy farm to Shanghai?

[Aussie]

Well the government backed South Canterbury Finance so if that's any indication of their business acumen I suppose anything's liable to happen, and desperate measures are needed to fill the coffers and keep people off the streets.
The Government has backed this deal because it's making them look good, but the fact is that this country's future has always been with tourism and farming, that's what we should be planning on for the future, and being a credible ally to Australia and the USA our major trading partners. If we hadn't enacted David Lange's hare-brained anti-nuclear legislation NZ would be heaps better off.

The anti-nuclear legislation, a classic example of herd instinct if ever I saw one.

NZ provides 25% of the world's dairy products, ever tried moving a dairy farm to Shanghai?

I didn't get the SCF deal either and I'd like to see some answers on that one - hopefully there'll be an enquiry. In my unpopular opinion, the Hobbit deal will prove to be good business, especially in the light of the other films that are following. I worry about NZ tourism and export markets if Peak Oil presents itself in the new few years. Regarding ANZUS, as an Aussie I thought NZ turned it's back on it's mates - simple. I agree NZ would be a lot better off if it had stuck with ANZUS.

And another thing . . . there's too many damn greenies in this country and not enough people in the future to pay for those aging greenies pensions and health care. Will they accept a reduction in lifestyle and benefits instead of a few more successful NZ mines or oil and gas projects? People need to get real about our economy and the future sustainability of our current lifestyle.

[minimoke]

So we have the worlds most powerful and arguably influential woman in the country. I'm wondering what those in the beltway have been showing her of our amazing film industry and spectacular tourist wonders.?

I hear she's been talking about military things so its clear posts 1 and 15 were the ones on the right track.

Wellington has clearly moved on but rest assured Christchurch is up for it. She is seeing our Penguins and her support crew get to see Canterbury on the Big Screen in the finals of the ITM Cup so not all opportunity is wasted.
(Aussie - the answer to your question is Yes)