All Blacks

[Gryffyn]

Well - squeeked a win over SA at Jade.

Not convincing but then again we are still winning when not playing well which is a good sign.

A few key players out of the team but we are still applying pressure for most of the match like last week against Oz.

Any punters actually there last night?

:D:D Go Black! :D:D

[Cooper]

Two or three years ago we would have lost in the last minute, not won... a wins a win and I think the last minute victory indicates a mental strength that was lacking in the recent past. Good signs. Maybe the old proffessional foul rule should be brushed off and presented to the ref though.

[foodee]

Nail biting stuff
Thought second half was really great, AB dominated in every aspect except positional kicking. It would do CS good to sit on the side bench and review his game. Meanwhile we need another goal kicker(s).

Next week: Wal[:p], Spb[B)]

[Cooper]

Nick Evans!

[Gryffyn]

Evans definitely being groomed for the future. Carlos and Merts won't be at next world cup and carter may stay at 12.

Good to see mental toughness in team though. Lads on right track - now to win in SA!!

[belgarion]

CS needs to learn about the 'little chip over the top' when the referree isn't policing the offside rule and he finds opposition backs in his face as soon as he recieves the ball. Black backs looked very average and frequently far too flat ... The forwards, once again, shone. Overall, a good gritty test match display.

[Cooper]

My Girlfriend's Father is a rep level coach and he was saying exactly what you said Belg, the ABs should have reverted back to the deeper back line when the Saffers started coming up so flat so quickly. Marshall is a brilliant player but his service has always been a weak point and maybe this was contributing to a flustered CS. I see the Saffers fell victim to the same thing we did in the past few years by having locks and props in the mid field when an attacking opportunity looked on at least twice... good to see we're over that and the AB forwards stuck predominantly to the "one off" channel.

[trendy]

What ever happened to kicking a few drop goals. I noted in the match against the Aussies they could have slipped a few easy points in also.

[Gryffyn]

Still - by having a flat libe it sometimes highlights the off side of the oppo and we creamed some penalties from that. Prof foul level in my opinion given how often it happened.

[Steve]

I think it will be interesting to see if, given the same situations in SA & Aus, the AB's can deliver the similar results. EG:last minute try to win...

[foodee]

Last minute victory is a measure of the spirit or heart. It won't get much better in test matches. God knows how many times oz has done it to us!

[Cooper]

Funnily enough steve I think the drier, harder tracks may bring our backline into play a little more, so I'll stick my neck out and say we're going to knock over SA on the away leg. Not so sure about the Aussies though...
Foodee... you're right... good to see we're not the country eating our own livers for a last ditch loss this time around.

[Gryffyn]

Tend to agree. I think we'll win in SA, esp if some of the injured lads are back in. Could go to the wire in OZ and bonus points may yet decide the tri-nations.

[Wiremu]

Trendy,

Drop kicks are the refuge of those who can't score any other way. Today's game is about territory and possession, and if you take drop kicks at goal, irrespective of whether you get 3 points or not, there is one thing guaranteed - that you will be back on defense in your own 22. Its a dumb choice, and one often used by Mehrts.

[Major von Tempsky]

Can we have a ref who enforces the off-side rule properly?
If we had had one the ABs would have won in a canter. The Boks went all out to totally disregard the offside law and because of this they arrived at the same time or even before the ball. I'm not amazed at the penalty count against the Boks, I'm amazed it wasn't much much higher. And if the ref had gone by latest practice there would have been a number of Boks sent off for consistently infringing the off-side law after being penalised.
Given all this how could the AB backline function?
But I'm still awaiting an explanation of where was Marshall when the Boks scored the first try?
Holah won the ball, got it back, and it was lying there and lying there and lying there for Marshall to pick it up and spin it out but Marshall was nowhere to be seen. Eventually a Bok forward picked up the gift, on it went and they scored.
Can anyone tell me where Marshall was while all this was going on?

[Gryffyn]

Yup, the offsides were why we struggled to break the line early and other refs would definitely have been reaching for their cards. SA were pretty smart in mainly doing it out of the 22.

[willy_wonker]

I lost all my nails during the match.

It is good for the Blacks to have a couple of hard games, keeps them on their toes. This game will prepare well for the next match against the Aussies in Sydney.

Willy says the ABs have matured into a fine team.

[Gryffyn]

Word in the papers is that Merts heading for outer now Mauger getting fit and Collins not impressing - I'd agree with that and I'm a 'Canes fan! Leuaki will be in soon I hope.

[bermuda]

If Merts had played instead of CS the All Blacks would have won in a canter.The Boks would have been putting the ball into a lineout on their own 22 instead of Montgomery pushing us back with interest.CS loses it when under pressure.

[willy_wonker]

WE just needed some power players to punch through the mid field, cos they were coming up so flat and fast. Times like this lomu would be an asset in the mid field.

[thereslifeafter87]

It was because Spencer didn't kick so much that we dominated the game. Did you not see the territory and possession stats? Carlos' kicking game was not bad at all, and Muliaina's was outstanding.

Marshall's delivery has always been too slow, and the 'boks exploited that ruthlessly. Notice the difference when Callagher came on? And what a pass from Carlos to set up that try!

Also, Montgomery was having an absolute blinder.. Why kick the ball to him? Much better to starve him of possession! Did you not see how he carved us up when he got a bit of space?

It was a great win. The forwards dominated, and despite the constant offside play, we still had go-forward.

Pity about the warriors, I guess both our teams can't win in overtime.

[Placebo]

An ABs team with spine... about bl**dy time!!

Very impressed with our pack's tenacity. We were outplayed for 70 minutes, then suddenly it all started to happen. They weren't smashing us back behind the advantage line, we had go-forward, we even pushed them off their own ball right under their posts (screwed the scrum). Howlett may have got the points but it was the forwards that made the try.

As for the Yarpie fringing, well, one of the reasons for the early-season biff was because Robinson and Gibbes in particular weren't letting those guys through. We didn't give the backs as much protection this time, still too much poor-quality ball being presented. And yes, the South Africans were up very (too?) flat. But no criticism of the pack this week :)

If there is criticism it is that we are still turning over possession or muffing opportunities. Happened a number of times on Saturday. Test rugby is all about taking the chances you get. We are still a long way from being clinical.

But very good, well done to the Blacks. Here's hoping we can win on the road, always the biggest test. Funnily enough the Mitchell 03 brigade managed 50-pointers in their Tri-Nations away matches. Any chances this lot matching that?[?]

Warriors? "Our" team?? Not mine!!

[thereslifeafter87]

We weren't outplayed for 70 minutes at all! We had the ball for more than 70% of the game!
The springboks simply scored 3 opportunistic tries, and got a lead on us. We controlled the game completely except for 3 lapses in concentration.

[Gryffyn]

80 mins of rugby - at the end we had more points so we outplayed the other team. Fullstop. Some critism that we didn't adapt to their tactics and the reffing is fair.

6 outa 6 - this is the way ABs should be.

[GR8DAY]

get rid of that pansy half-back Marshall and replace him with someone who can pass the pill like any other half-decent half-back....like Keleha? and we might have something that resembles a world class team!!!! He's an embarrasemnt to watch and his pathetic passing skills (lack of them) only rubs off on the remaining back line....I can't believe he's still there when a player with real balls like Keleha? on the side-line....and no, I'm not from the deep Sth or in fact anywhere near it. There......that feels better.

[Gryffyn]

People always comment on Marshall and passing but a SST feature just over a year ago did an analysis of passing times and accuracy - down to 100ths of sec and JM wasn't the best but wasn't the worst in the country either. If Devine was fit they'd be another option but BK is 1= or 2 best and then there is daylight after the two of them. Horses for courses.

[Cooper]

Kelleher is a valuable weapon off the bench... he always plays at his most dynamic level after having to sit and watch the majority of the game. Not fair on him but I'd use him as a sub no matter who is starting.

[Gryffyn]

Like having an extra loosie coming on.

[Gryffyn]

Yaya - Merts back albeit on the bench. Good choice. Also Gibbs back which is good. Collins aint quite cutting it I think.

[Lawso]

quote: * * *
---------------------------------------------------------------
Yaya - Merts back albeit on the bench. Good choice.

Murray Deaker has rightly banned Mehrtens v. Spencer blather on his radio show. I wish someone would do the same here.

[Futurz]

quote:Originally posted by Lawso


quote: * * *
---------------------------------------------------------------
Yaya - Merts back albeit on the bench. Good choice.

Murray Deaker has rightly banned Mehrtens v. Spencer blather on his radio show. I wish someone would do the same here.


I wish someone would ban Murray Deaker from radio[:0] and TV for that matter:D

[Placebo]

Lawso, yours please?

[Gryffyn]

Well it's not CS vs AM it's a case of having them both in the same team :-) I like the idea about banning Deaker though.

[Gryffyn]

So, perhaps we should start a little ST sweepstake and see what punters predict the score this weekend will be...

[Cooper]

I was going to say the Wallabies but I'll go the AB's, 32-24

[willy_wonker]

This is gonna be the game to watch.

AB 34 - 30

[Gryffyn]

Guess I should put my entry as well!

ABs 27 - 18

[bermuda]

AB 27 AUST 23 with Merts dictating play in the last 20 mins.

[Placebo]

I'll earn the wrath of ST by picking the Wallabies to win.

No, wait, they have a crappy pack and a loose cannon in Harrison, though balanced by the return of George Smith. Can't understand how he missed the Wgtn test and was benched v Sth Af. Still the Aussies won that one.

Errm, ABs by 7.

No, wait! Draw. 23-all.

Bah! Tougher to pick than a broken nose...

[Speculator]

Gee, you guys are all heart and no head. You must find it hard to make money on the sharemarket.

My pick:

Wallabies 41
Polynesian A 19

Sorry, Polynesian A = All Blacks

The mighty Wallabies time has come on a field where they don't have to play water rugby.

Tri Nations:

1. Wallabies
2. Polynesian A
3. Springboks

OR

1. Springboks
2. Wallabies
3. Polynesian A

[marinesalvor]

19-17 to ABs

[Cooper]

Speculator, you were noticably absent after the Wallabies got crowded out of the last game... are you going to take a similar approach after a result this time or can we expect at least one post? For my part if the Wallabies win I will be more than happy to give you credit for the prediction. What if it goes the other way? Or do you not back up or opinion?

[Futurz]

All Blacks to win 31-17 [8D]

Hey Speculator, at least we have water over here in NZ, i'm surprised there is even enough water in Sydney to water sports grounds :D Talk about the 'Great Australian Blight', thats the whole country isn't it[?][:0]

I'm sure the Aussies will put up a good fight if your Yappie import Clyde plays well;)

[Gryffyn]

So far:

Cooper : ABs 32 - 24
Willy wonker : ABs 34 - 30
Gryffyn : ABs 27 - 18
Bermuda : ABs 27 - 23
Placebo : Drw 23 - 23
Speculator : Oz 41 - 19
Marinesalvor : ABs 19 - 17
Futurz : ABs 31 - 17

[blackcap]

Gidday

Ill go AB's 26 Australia 15

[willy_wonker]

Gryffyn, does the winner get a prize?

[Gryffyn]

They get to be the most exalted grand poobah of prediction on ST until the next sweepstakes :-)

[Gryffyn]

Now we have:

Cooper : ABs 32 - 24
Willy wonker : ABs 34 - 30
Gryffyn : ABs 27 - 18
Bermuda : ABs 27 - 23
Placebo : Drw 23 - 23
Speculator : Oz 41 - 19
Marinesalvor : ABs 19 - 17
Futurz : ABs 31 - 17
Blackcap : ABs 26 - 15

[k1w1]

I don' hink hey will ge ou of pool play and hey are not a medal prospect. Well done ab and the guys on qualifying.

Go he all blacks

Disclosure. I have assumed his is a baske ball hread for people whose key be ween r and y is no working :D:D:D

[Speculator]

Hi Cooper, I never said the Wallabies could win a game of water polo.

[willy_wonker]

Kiwi, what are you smoking? :D

[Major von Tempsky]

Remember Laurie Main's comment that out of Marshall and Kelleher he would pick Marshall because Kelleher was totally unable to play or stick to a game plan.
Marshall a pansy? What have you been smoking - he's usually described as an extra loose forward.
But Kelleher does play like an inspired maniac for part of a game, like a bull practically impossible to stop or pull down. Marshall always significantly improves his game after being criticised, I pick him to do that again and to share the game with Kelleher.
But a flat backline? It hasn't worked yet...I hope there is a Plan B.
Taking Carter off....I guess it worked for a short period but they're starting to get the Mitch disease of thinking you can win by tossing the place kicks to anyone and she'll be right.
Graham Henry did wonders with Wales for a while with practically no material, incl ambushing South Africa...but this flat backline stuff ....has Smith brainwashed him and is Smith going off the rails again as when he was forced out before...
It's all a bit of a worry.
All Blacks 28 - 25 but I wouldn't be surprised to see Australia win....

[bermuda]

For the life of me I cannot understand why Henry/Smith should stifle the speed attributes of our wings with this flat approach.I fully expect the AB's pack to pave the way but if our flat backline botches it, it will be up to Merts in the last 15 mins to stand deep and control the show.

[Placebo]

Rugby chat. Must be Friday.:D

[foodee]

My impression of the Wall/Springbok game was that the Oz backs were running onto the pass at speed and effectively. This is unlikely to happen with a flat backline. So it is interesting and so it should be. My feeling is that forward dominance/possesion is the winning formula in this match and the ABs has that abilityand the score.........ABs35/Oz18.

ps cooking some hot curry to spice the evening up.

[Futurz]

<h1>GO THE ALL BLACKS</h1>
:)[8D]:)[8D]:)[8D]

[willy_wonker]

Our backline was too predictable during the Springbok game. The ABs need some imagination and directions. Sometimes stay flat, sometimes a chip, sometimes a up and under bomb and somtimes stand deep...etc. We cant afford the aussies the luxury to guess us everytime the balls comes out.

[Speculator]

GO WALLABIES

[KJ]

I thought that you got a "speculator" if you did that.

[Gryffyn]

Now we have:

Cooper : ABs 32 - 24
Willy wonker : ABs 34 - 30
Gryffyn : ABs 27 - 18
Bermuda : ABs 27 - 23
Placebo : Drw 23 - 23
Speculator : Oz 41 - 19
Marinesalvor : ABs 19 - 17
Futurz : ABs 31 - 17
Blackcap : ABs 26 - 15
MVT: ABs 28 - 25

[Gryffyn]

Eddie Jones has been remarkably restarined in the build up to this one. Perhaps he knows the writing in son the wall...

Do any of our OZ punters know what David Nusadoora (sic) is doing now that he's been axed from Brumbies?

[lambton]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Eddie Jones has been remarkably restarined in the build up to this one. Perhaps he knows the writing in son the wall...

Do any of our OZ punters know what David Nusadoora (sic) is doing now that he's been axed from Brumbies?

[Leai_Se_Tupe]

Excuse my ignorance (not living in NZ!), but what time is the game tonight? (NZ time)

[biker]

quote:Originally posted by Leai_Se_Tupe

Excuse my ignorance (not living in NZ!), but what time is the game tonight? (NZ time)



10pm

[Major von Tempsky]

9.55 p.m. NZ time old chap. SKY10 and SKY15 (The rugby channel).
9.25 p.m. Chatham Islands time.

[Major von Tempsky]

Oops, correction, shame on me, I'm getting tired waiting for the real action to begin.
10.25 p.m. Chatham Islands time, and to think I spent a few days there once....

[Onthemoney]

ABs 38 Aust 22

[Paddie]

OTM,

A bold prediction,

Wouldn't be surprised to see the AB's loose. IMHO it will be a very close game, less than 5 in it.

Paddie[:p]

[Cooper]

You Got it Placebo. Speculator: The better team won tonight, a deserved victory. Wanted to post that before my extra large helping of humble pie for breakfast.

[nelehdine]

Terrible performance from the AB's ... I'm a big Tana fan but appeared to be little leadership tonight ... were Rokocoko,Howlett and Muliaina playing ??? Why doesn't someone ( Carl Hayman ) sacrifice 10 mins in the bin just to get Justin Harrison a good left jab right on the nose !!!

[blackcap]

quote:Originally posted by nelehdine

Why doesn't someone ( Carl Hayman ) sacrifice 10 mins in the bin just to get Justin Harrison a good left jab right on the nose !!!


Agreed with that one Nele. He just irks the s*it out of me. That guy needs to be banned from the game for the good of the game.

Well anyway its wide open now.

[Cooper]

Flat backline: "gone by lunchtime"?

[Speculator]

Thanks Cooper. As much as I dislike New Zealand I think the Polynesian A can hold their heads up after that game. The Wallabies should have won by more with the two held up tries and the crooked Ref. For once Sailor did something good and I always worry when Burke does the kicking.

When we have Rogers back I think we will be unbeatable.

Now we shall test the metal of Henry.

A suggestion: your forwarad fitness is wanting.

Unbelievable the crooked ref reversed a penalty on Gregan. We are in the age of PC rugby of course.

One more comment: If your team does not go to South Africa because of the apparent security issues (as I read this evening) then I for one will never watch the haka again without giggling hysterically. If they don't go then - to use Arnold's words - they are Girlie Men.

[Gryffyn]

Bugger :-(

[blockhead]

Wanting for a leader they were, even a thinker would have improved things.

Shoulda got Merhts on earlier

I new what needed to happen from where I was sitting (home in front of the fire)

Blocky

[mikescott]

Most telling scene from the match - Xavier Rush pulling the players together for a talk just before Australia's second penalty shoot. Tana was nowhere to be seen.

[Cooper]

What bothers me is that the Aussies were giving their outsides all the ball while we seemed to think that one or two passes from the breakdown was sufficient before taking it to ground again. Rocko****o didn't see any ball at all. Wallabies used their backline well, we didn't. Hayman had a blinder though, must say.

[Cooper]

On www.planetrugby.com:

"That the All Blacks scored no tries and now have two from three Tri-Nations matches will invite further questions about their new flat alignment. Things looked a bit better when Andrew Mehrtens became the general for the last half hour of the match, which will also invite further questions"

[foodee]

Well done the Wallabies.

[u]Stand out performances</u>
*AB backline coach still cannot see what the fans have seen for yongs! - flat backline and woeful positional kicking
*AB lineout shambles

Enough said. AB coaching - get sorted!!:(

[Major von Tempsky]

Dreadful.
I've just become a full time wimmin's netball fan.
What was wrong with them? Not enough sleep? Overtrained? Trained too close to the game too hard? Total lack of spirit, motivation, energy.
14 kgs in the scrum over Aussie and you'd think it was the other way.
We need some new blood. Bring on Lauaki and anyone else we can pinch from the Pacific Islands team. Sack Wayne Smith (again) and bring in Robbie Deans as back coach.
Let me know when it's worthwhile becoming a rugby fan again. I've gone into hibernation.
ATP, tennis on SKY, it's the only thing worth watching....until wimmin's netball comes on again.

[Gryffyn]

Scrum was fine. Don't push any panic buttons. Smith excellent coach. Outplayed last night especially around the breakdown - too many turnovers. Yes, bring in Lauaki - will add speed and punch.

One loss and some people are ditching the ABs and rugby! Who needs fair-weather lightweight supporters. All on now for the SA trip.

[Speculator]

I think your team played well and it could have gone either way. You guys are pretty hard on them!

[mikescott]

It's not a case of one loss but how the ABs lost last night.

Did anyone watching ever thought for 1 minute that the ABs looked like they could break through the Australian defence?

Howlett and Roko might as well be at home brewing a cup of tea!

[Gryffyn]

Yes it was worrying but in the end the Wallabies played very well - Smith and Grogan were outstanding and the ABs lacked composure.

Well done Oz - good rugby, I'm still backing the ABs to improve and win in SA.

[Gryffyn]

How ironic - just cleared the PO box and found that Telstra are giving me free rugby channel for a week. Great - endless replays of last nights loss.

[small fish]

Did anyone watch Graham Henry after the game. He was the biggest disappointment, standing looking sullen and all. He complained about kicking away too much ball. Thats crap, we just couldnt string any more that 10 rucks together. If the forwards arent going forward then the backs have no chance with the flat backline. Aussie backline looked good though, standing deep and all.

[Awryly]

Disgusting! Racism, whether black, white, yellow or red has no place in the composition of an "all black" team. You would have an issue with the Springblacks?

[spector]

on a positive note, the forwards played well... Marty Hollar put in the yards as did Carl Hayman, Kees Meuws and Johnno Gibbs. It was dissapointing not having Keith Robinson and Ritchie McCaw as they are better players than Marty Hollar and Ali Williams.... but generally the forwards played well. The weakness was again evident in the backline. Ironically the traditional mainstay of All Black play.

I just don't think the flat backline technique works. Our backline relies on pace not brawn. It's hard to break through from a standing start for anyone. It's harder when you have a size disadvantage.

I think everyone will agree that the All Black backline works best when players have a chance to use their pace to get around the opposition.

[spector]

Mind you, every All Black supporter in the country would have to tip their hats to the Australian tenacity. One great thing about all Australian teams is their ability to never give up. We could learn alot about backing ourselves from the Aussies.

[bermuda]

The worrying thing for me was how ALL the Aussies sang their National Anthem with fierce National pride while a few of our All Blacks did a bit of mumbling.-- p.s. we need a good no. 8.Our performance here was pitiful and left us painfully exposed.

[Shamrock]

A few thoughts.

The woeful backline performance was the result of three things:
1) The Aussie loosies getting to the breakdown faster than our #7 (Holah);
2) Little or no protection for Marshall at ruck and maul time;
3) The combination of Marshall/Spencer as inside pairing.

The third point is the one I want to elaborate on. I have never seen Spencer play well outside Marshall when the latter is under pressure to clear the ball. In order for Spencer to perform he needs either to play behind a pack which is going forward, or to play outside a scrumhalf who can deliver him quality ball from the base of the ruck. Only then can you get away with the kind of backline formation the All Blacks have been playing.

So we had the worst of all worlds last night - a halfback under pressure with slow delivery to a flyhalf who is invariably unable to ignite the backline effectively without quality ball. Running a deeper backline would only have been an improvement if the ball was going to be delivered quickly to the midfield. Only Mehrtens has the ability to do this well. It seems Spencer has fallen in love with the short pass, the inside-pass, the razzle-dazzle pass, even the run-across-the-field-looking-other-way-pass. He has forgotten that at flyhalf he is the pivot upon which the fate of the backline rests. By thus playing around behind the advantage line, he tends to turn a weight of possession into very little go-forward. Witness the Springbok test.

By contrast Mehrtens is able to spin the ball wide quickly when there is space, or turn the opposing pack around with his kicking game when he doesn't get good service. He is able to adapt to the game as required by the quality of ball he receives. The evidence suggests that Spencer isn't, therefore it is much more important who plays inside Spencer, than Mehrtens.

I would have Marshall and Mehrtens starting - they know each other's game well, and Marshall is a much better all-round halfback, leader, and reader of the game than Kelleher, despite his limitations clearing the ball quickly. Not coincidentally, those limitations show up much more when he is playing with Spencer than they do with Mehrtens.

Finally, what's so bad about Deaker? He calls a spade a spade and you've got to respect that.

[Speculator]

Just reading Mat Rogers stuff on Rugbyheaven:

40 metre times:

Rathbone 4.7
Tuqiri 4.8
Rogers 4.9

Does anyone know the 40 metre stats for Polynesian A:

Howlett ?
Rocko****o ?
Muliaiena ?
McCaw ?

Be interested to know.

[Ted2]

Spencer - compare passing ability with Larkham
Marshall - great loose froward but passing still average

[willy_wonker]

I have a funny feeling we are gonna loose the coming game against the Springboks. Alot of injury and a bunch of tired and confused boys. We need some power in the mid field to punch through the SA's flat defence line.

[Ted2]

quote:Originally posted by Ted2

Spencer - compare passing ability with Larkham
Marshall - great loose froward but passing still average

Oops - pushed button too early!

Rush - tries hard but out of his depth.
Gibbes - Anonymous -tries hard but found out at loose. Better at lock
Williams - Bring back Robinson. (or Gibbes, or Maling, or Thorn, or Maxwell or anybody)
Holah - even McCaw can struggle against both Waugh and Smith. Would have been interesting what selection would have been if McCaw was fit. Would we still have picked only one speedie and one slug?
Jack - why does the best lineout forward in the world get one throw all night (and that being a short one!)
Hayman - it's a worry when the only two times we looked like scoring were thanks to him.

Forwards in general - looked too much like last years mob for my liking. 3-4 at breakdown and the others either out in the backline or standing around looking.

Backs in general - all our guys are world class at beating a man one on one. If we had run our backline like the ockers did (with depth Wayne!), we could have scored at least some tries! (of course we needed to get the bloody ball first!)

I have been prepared to give FFB (F...ing Flat Backline) a chance. But it is now clear that it is out of date against a good side. With the best backs in the world (apparently) why not have a tactic that gives them room to display their stuff?

Given lack of availability, injuries, and non-selections, team for jaapies is:
Muli, Hairdo, Rocko, Ooh ah, Jockeys, Mehrts, Marshall, Collins, Xaviera, Holer, Jack, Gibbes, Grizzly Adams, Punchbag, Big bad Kees

[marinesalvor]

should have started Tuitupou for pretty boy Carter

[Futurz]

quote:Originally posted by Speculator

Thanks Cooper. As much as I dislike New Zealand I think the Polynesian A can hold their heads up after that game. The Wallabies should have won by more with the two held up tries and the crooked Ref. For once Sailor did something good and I always worry when Burke does the kicking.

When we have Rogers back I think we will be unbeatable.

Now we shall test the metal of Henry.

A suggestion: your forwarad fitness is wanting.

Unbelievable the crooked ref reversed a penalty on Gregan. We are in the age of PC rugby of course.

One more comment: If your team does not go to South Africa because of the apparent security issues (as I read this evening) then I for one will never watch the haka again without giggling hysterically. If they don't go then - to use Arnold's words - they are Girlie Men.


Go drown yourself in a billabong [:p]

Credit to Aussie they played the better game and deserved to win. :(

[morv]

AB playing style looked like 15 man league team.

[Placebo]

Well I was SOOOOO gutted that Tuialii got held up on the line... why the hell didn't he reach out. THERE WAS MY 23-ALL DRAW!! [}:)][}:)]

Some comments. Our pack was disappointing. The Aussies once again picked our lineout calls and it was only late in the game that we threw to Williams regularly. Jack hardly was a target... why?

Flat backline is a red herring. If the pack is playing well, the backs will follow. Our pack was outplayed.

Gregan showed the skills that make me wish he was one of ours, both around the park and in influencing the ref. Yes he gave away a penalty for backchat, but he engineered two for the Wallabies and the binning of Williams (for nothing, by the way). That is superb captaincy.

It was noticeable that when Mehrtens came on we achieved much better field position (through tactical kicking). Unfortunately, and unusually for this season, the backline's good work was undone by the forwards. Botched lineouts, and worst of all, a 5m scrum that we were unable to capitalise from. Most disconcerting was that we had a perceived advantage in the scrums, and were making a mess of their scrum in the first 10min, yet the Aussies fixed their problems and matched us for the rest of the game.

Two Georges were the difference -- Gregan and Smith. Having Smith is like having an extra player. Holah isn't in the same class.

As for Henry's reaction, well, how would you prefer him to be? I just hope his next words after the interview were the mother of all bollockings to his team. Rush is the pack leader, he has every right to bring the team together for a talk -- we don't know where Tana was at that time.

What gets me is that, we have been playing against Eddie Jones-coached teams in S12 and tests for many years now. They all play the same way. There is no rocket science to their game. Yet we still can't break it down. By my count that's one try in the last 3 outings against them. A very poor strike rate. The Wallabies are clearly our nemesis.

I hope we can win in Sth Africa and bring home the silverware. But I am wary of an Ellis Park ambush. It will be our 4th hard game in 4 weeks, we're travelling a long way and playing at altitude. This will be the All Blacks' toughest match of the year. Bar none. I hope we are up to it.

But let's keep things in perspective. This is the first year of the Henry-Smith regime. We have retained the Bledisloe Cup and have a shot at retaining Tri-Nations. And so what if we lose a few games -- losing can benefit teams as long as they learn why they lost.

On the other hand, John Mitchell looks a pretty good coach now, eh?[:p]

[thereslifeafter87]

Guys, lets keep this in perspective.
That was the first game where our pack hasn't dominated completely.
We had no protection for Marshall, who as usual took far too long to deliver the ball, thus carlos couldn't play his game.

The tight five was not arriving at breakdowns in numbers, and maybe Gibbes was a bit too slow - but I didn't notice him in particular. I did notice Ali Williams being lazy at ruck time though, and he has a bad tendency to get isolated when he runs the ball. Jack got great go forward every time he had ball in hand. Our lineout was a shambles, but that was due mainly to the Australians excellent defensive effort. A couple of times they plucked the ball right out of the air in front of our jumper - even though the throw was perfectly on target. So, we cant blame Mealamu
Rush was again outstanding.
Where was the mauling this week?

I would have Callagher in the team for Marshall. He is just so much more fiery, and clears the ball that much faster. I would also keep Carlos so long as Carter is playing - but wasn't Tuitoupo amazing when he was on? Great go forward.

We do need to use our outsides far more, spin some ball wide with some depth and pace on the ball. You can have a deep backline and still hit the ball flat, the difference is you hit it at pace. We also need to work angles better to counteract the opponents sliding defence.

Umaga was brilliant in defence.

Gregan was brilliant at manipulating the ref, and the ref was as one-eyed as they come!

It was on the whole not a terrible game for us, so long as we learn from it. Look how close it was.

The only concerning point is our backlines seeming inability to get over the line no matter how much ball we have... Look at the first couple of games of the tri-nations.

[Cooper]

Interesting to see little Sammy Tuitopou was playing for the majority of the time he was on the field with a broken rib, and yet he was still the only AB back (Tana aside) that made consistently dangerous runs, by running straight. Muliaina made a huge break when he decided to run straight. Maybe the idea of crabbing across the field needs looked at as well.

[Placebo]

This was published prior to the match (in Australia), makes an interesting read in retrospect...

SYDNEY: All Blacks take note: the Wallabies are indulging in espionage at the lineout, according to Springboks rugby coach
Jake White.


White has warned New Zealand that their lineout codes will be targeted by a Wallabies' analysis unit during the Tri-Nations test
in Sydney tomorrow night.

White has claimed Wallabies reserve Dan Vickerman told him after last
week's test in Perth that the Australians employed an analyst to break down the Springboks' calls during the first half.

The information was relayed to the Wallabies pack at halftime, allowing them to take control at the set piece in the second
half.

The lineout count favoured Australia 24-10, including six steals from
Springboks throws. The Wallabies won the match 30-26.

Wallabies coach Eddie Jones last night said all his camp had done was use the Sportsears technology, available to patrons at the ground, to listen in to the Springboks' calls and try to decipher where the ball would be thrown.

Sportsears allow spectators to listen to the referee throughout the game and pick up ancillary noise around him.

"We've all got the same amount of information we can go off," Jones told The Daily Telegraph newspaper.

He denied the Wallabies had organised a special feed of the referee's
microphone through host broadcaster Channel 7.

"Everyone's got the ref's call. Everyone's got Sportsears.

"I think Jake's just clutching at straws to take a bit of the heat off
himself.

"Everyone does the same amount of analysis. Everyone tries to work out
everyone else's lineout calls and that's what the game is about."

White admitted he would copy the Australian approach when the Springboks host the All Blacks and Wallabies in the final two
rounds of the Tri-Nations series later this month.

"There was a hell of a battle in the lineouts last weekend and there was definitely something there that looked like they could read our calls," White said in South Africa.

"Dan Vickerman told me afterwards that Eddie Jones had hired a fulltime guy to do an analysis of our lineouts in the first half.
He also had the referee's audio link so that he could hear the calls
(through the official's on-jersey microphone).

"He would then put the calls together with the jumpers and gave the
information to the Wallabies at halftime and that definitely had an impact. It shows how far we have come with technology."

White said he would talk to television executives in South Africa to
determine whether they could assist with a feed from the referee's
microphone for the upcoming games in Johannesburg and Durban.

[Speculator]

If you think the Wallabies were hard wait 'til you play the wounded Springboks in SA this weekend. There will be no mercy for the Kiwis and Polynesian A will be defeated.

The Boks are rested and your guys will be jet-lagged. Their forwards will throw PA around like a bunch of rag-dolls. I can't wait!

[Gryffyn]

I think you'll need to wait till satan drives to work in a snow plow.

[duncan macgregor]

Dont want to brag guys but I picked aussie to win . Sa will win as well this time coming . WHY?. The all blacks are slow thinkers require telling off at half time told what to do next. They dont have the ability to change when It aint working they need a gregan or a kick up the ass. When a guy looks about wondering who to pass to and loses the ball time after time what do you expect. Incidentely Scotland are hopeless at the game, but make up for It with a decent tune at the start that they all seem to know the words to. They got you on the tele dummy wake up they are on to you. MACDUNK
ps Take It easy on me Im sensative

[mikescott]

One gets the impression that the ABs spend more time practicising that stupid haka to perfection than practise strategies and plans A, B , C etc...to perfection.

No opposing team is intimidated by that stupid war chant any more - it's at best entertainment but in fact, is more of a yawn for opposing teams these days. In fact, notice how the Wallabies had a good chuckle and then, a smirk on their faces, at the ABs sticking their tongues out at the Sydney test?

You can almost sense the Wallabies mentally say to the ABs - would you like to kiss our a r s e s with your tongues?

So mentally the Wallabies make fun of the ABs as a r s e lickers and then treat them accordingly on the field - that's psychology and intelligence at play.

Plus let's be very honest - the ABs these days are not known for intelligent play. The Australians are and during the World Cup, The English were.

Guess why?

[Leai_Se_Tupe]

The game was very interesting. The macro indicators (possession, territory) favoured the AB's in the first 20mins and provided good confirmation of the score's upward trend. When the reversal came it was no surprise due to lack of support at the critical reaction levels. The ascending triangle of the AB's back line pointed to future losses and the ref capitalised on this without hesitation.
(The crowd's) volume remained steady throughout and was not a reliable indicator in predicting the outcome.
A minor rally just before the closing could not make back the earlier losses and the day ended on a decidedly bearish note.
Here's hoping for a bullish breakout next week!

[Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by Leai_Se_Tupe

The game was very interesting. The macro indicators (possession, territory) favoured the AB's in the first 20mins and provided good confirmation of the score's upward trend. When the reversal came it was no surprise due to lack of support at the critical reaction levels. The ascending triangle of the AB's back line pointed to future losses and the ref capitalised on this without hesitation.
(The crowd's) volume remained steady throughout and was not a reliable indicator in predicting the outcome.
A minor rally just before the closing could not make back the earlier losses and the day ended on a decidedly bearish note.
Here's hoping for a bullish breakout next week!


The AB p/e ratio is too high compared to the other two options as well. Sector is looking good but other options look cheaper.

[Leai_Se_Tupe]

p/e ratio - polynesian/european ratio?

[Speculator]

The mighty African Lion will roar this weekend and blood its impis on the PA's. They should have won in NZ week before last. Four tries was it?

[Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by Leai_Se_Tupe

p/e ratio - polynesian/european ratio?

Actually now you mention it I wouldn't mind seeing Tuialii in for Rush. There wasnt much from him on saturday. Also Tuitupou has been my first choice second five for a while, especially if Merhtens started at first five. Anyone else for Williams would also please me.
But no, I was trying to be funny and continue in a similar vein.
I think the ABs will be a new unit this weekend. We'll knock over SA by thirteen and over. You heard it here first.

[Gryffyn]

No place for Spencer in squad to face Springboks

11.08.2004
12.20am
CAPE TOWN - First five-eighth Carlos Spencer and lock Ali Williams have been dropped for the All Blacks' Tri-Nations test against South Africa in Johannesburg on Sunday.

Neither makes the squad of 22 and their places in the starting 15 have been taken by Andrew Mehrtens and Simon Maling.

In another change, second five-eighth Dan Carter, who has an ankle injury, has been replaced by Sam Tuitupou, who himself is recovering from a blow to the rib he received in the All Blacks' 23-18 defeat by Australia in Sydney last weekend.

Spencer has been the All Blacks No 1 first five-eighth under new coach Graham Henry, but the All Black backline has struggled in the Tri-Nations with their new flat alignment.

Coach Graham Henry said Spencer had been a positive influence in the team this season, but would have been disappointed with his form against Australia.

Williams made the starting line-up for the first time this year in the defeat against the Wallabies in Sydney, when he was sinbinned for offside.

Henry said Williams had a chance against the Wallabies, which he did not take totally and Maling's maturity would be helpful against the Springboks.

Tighthead prop Carl Hayman, who lost his place to Greg Somerville when the All Blacks beat the Springboks in Christchurch last month but was reinstated against the Australia, retains his place in the front row.

With two tests to go in the Tri-Nations, New Zealand and Australia lead the standings with nine points, seven ahead of South Africa.

But the Springboks, who play Australia in the tournament finale in Durban on Saturday week, could still win the title.

New Zealand: Mils Muliaina, Doug Howlett, Tana Umaga (captain), Sam Tuitupou, Joe Rokocoko, Andrew Mehrtens, Justin Marshall, Xavier Rush, Marty Holah, Jono Gibbes, Simon Maling, Chris Jack, Carl Hayman, Keven Mealamu, Kees Meeuws.

Reserves: Andrew Hore, Greg Somerville, Mose Tuiali'i, Craig Newby, Byron Kelleher, Nick Evans, Aaron Mauger.

- NZPA

[Gryffyn]

Spencer out, Merts in. Best come back since lazerus?

[Placebo]

quote:Actually now you mention it I wouldn't mind seeing Tuialii in for Rush. There wasnt much from him on saturday. Also Tuitupou has been my first choice second five for a while, especially if Merhtens started at first five. Anyone else for Williams would also please me.


Top of the class Cooper (btw, you're not Ross Cooper are you?[:p])

Any picks for 200 pct increases on the NZX over next 12 months?

[Wiremu]

Mehrts starting as first-five against the Springboks. Mehrts will directly cause two Springbok tries (charge down kicks, etc) and regularly kick the ball away from AB to give possession to the Springboks who will enjoy 65%+ possession through the game.

Spencer suffering for Marshall's poor performances.

AB's to loose by more than 18 points.

[boatie]

With Marshall and Merts, now the TAB should run with " Number of times in the game the ABs actually pass the ball from Marshall out to a Wing (playing in position).

My "pick" is.......4.

[southernman]

It is a great pity that Coaches have become so intrusive in the game of Rugby.
The current AB squad is picked, because (generally) they are the best in their positions in the country.
They are there because of the natural skills they possess.
It seems to me, that the Coaches, do their very best to inhibit these natural abilities of the players.
Personally, I am not a Spencer fan, however, the faults of the backline, surely, cannot be blamed on Carlos, the flat backline is not his style, he plays at his best when the forwards are dominant, and he can run on to the ball, ie, plenty of room to run.
To me, coaches are full of their own importance, Rugby is a simple game.
Let the players express their own talents, then we may see some good old fashioned victories.

[Morpheus]

Agreed Southernman.
Just like in business. Get a new head of department and straightaway they have to stamp their mark on everything - warrented or not. Take those adds for Lion Red as an example - WTF!
AB's confidence is shot because of coaches messing with the backline.
If it aint broke dont fix it. It wasn't the backs that lost us the World Cup.

Morpheus

[Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by Placebo


quote:Actually now you mention it I wouldn't mind seeing Tuialii in for Rush. There wasnt much from him on saturday. Also Tuitupou has been my first choice second five for a while, especially if Merhtens started at first five. Anyone else for Williams would also please me.


Top of the class Cooper (btw, you're not Ross Cooper are you?[:p])

Any picks for 200 pct increases on the NZX over next 12 months?

No, I'm better looking. [8D] I approach the NZX performance the same as I do this weeks AB team... I hope it will outperform and make me happy, but I have slightly lower expectations than my wishes dictate... Still, AB's by 13+!!!:D

[thereslifeafter87]

What a load of crap.
Rugby is NOT a simple game anymore. 'Good old-fashioned victories'? What a crock of utter bollocks. Any victory is a good victory - how were old fashioned victories different?

We have lost one, count it one, game this season due to a superior team, with superior defence, and a superior coach.

Graham Henry is the best coach we have produced.

Carlos has been blamed for a lack of forward pack dominance, and Marshall not being able to sort his F*ckin pass out.

Although, is the game in SA at altitude? that could be a factor in the decision....

[Speculator]

The coach of Polynesian A, Henry is showing his desperation by starting Merthens. He knows the inevitable defeat this weekend will announce the turn of public support against him.

It amazes me that any of you can be picking PA. They only just got home against SA in NZ and should not have won the game. Now you are picking a score of 13+ for the Polynesians. Unbelievable how patriotism clouds your judgement.

PA are at the beginning of a downward (and permanent) movement. And you are buying?

PA are the Harlem Globetrotters of world rugby. They entertain when up against mediocre opposition with their volleyball passes and running backs. But like the Harlem Globetrotters they could never win a serious competition.

PA have never won the world cup because they jointly banned a top team, SA in the 87 world cup. It was a Clayton's victory. Applies also to the 91 cup. As soon as SA are back in they win (1995).

You guys need to wake up and realise some truths about your sorry country which has been shipping educated white people out and third world country people in for 20 years.

The only reason you are in the OECD is that trees and grass grow so well and your country is mildly easy on the eye which is good for tourism. If you had the geography of, say Hong Kong, you would all be starving because you don't have the brains to create non-primary produce aligned wealth.

As for your Haka it is an unadulterated embarrassment to any intelligent person and I recommend you drop it speedily.

[southernman]

Name one player, who looks like he is enjoying the current style, demanded by the coaches.
Get down to haveing one coach only, then he would be to busy to impose useless theory on the players.
We are very lucky to have lost only one game, and there is still SA to come.


quote:Originally posted by thereslifeafter87

What a load of crap.
Rugby is NOT a simple game anymore. 'Good old-fashioned victories'? What a crock of utter bollocks. Any victory is a good victory - how were old fashioned victories different?

We have lost one, count it one, game this season due to a superior team, with superior defence, and a superior coach.

Graham Henry is the best coach we have produced.

Carlos has been blamed for a lack of forward pack dominance, and Marshall not being able to sort his F*ckin pass out.

Although, is the game in SA at altitude? that could be a factor in the decision....

[Futurz]

quote:Originally posted by Speculator

As for your Haka it is an unadulterated embarrassment to any intelligent person and I recommend you drop it speedily.



Pretty rich coming from someone who would rather sing about a hobo who steals sheep and then drowns himself instead of being caught. :D

I guess that's what you get from a nation of convicts.

If only more Aussie like yourself would follow this lead [:p]

By the way how's the trophy cabinet looking at rugby headquarters over there in Oz[?]

[Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by Speculator

The coach of Polynesian A, Henry is showing his desperation by starting Merthens. He knows the inevitable defeat this weekend will announce the turn of public support against him.

It amazes me that any of you can be picking PA. They only just got home against SA in NZ and should not have won the game. Now you are picking a score of 13+ for the Polynesians. Unbelievable how patriotism clouds your judgement.

PA are at the beginning of a downward (and permanent) movement. And you are buying?

PA are the Harlem Globetrotters of world rugby. They entertain when up against mediocre opposition with their volleyball passes and running backs. But like the Harlem Globetrotters they could never win a serious competition.

PA have never won the world cup because they jointly banned a top team, SA in the 87 world cup. It was a Clayton's victory. Applies also to the 91 cup. As soon as SA are back in they win (1995).

You guys need to wake up and realise some truths about your sorry country which has been shipping educated white people out and third world country people in for 20 years.

The only reason you are in the OECD is that trees and grass grow so well and your country is mildly easy on the eye which is good for tourism. If you had the geography of, say Hong Kong, you would all be starving because you don't have the brains to create non-primary produce aligned wealth.

As for your Haka it is an unadulterated embarrassment to any intelligent person and I recommend you drop it speedily.



It goes in cycles Speculator... currently the Wallabies (with, as futurz has said, a god-awful abomination in "waltzing matilda" as a half assed attempt at promoting aussie culture in the face of the passion of the haka) are on the downward leg of their cycle, with the new AB's team starting to gel and pick up on the first part of their upward cycle.
I will say this... AB's will win in SA, but the Wallabies will not. The Saffers do not have the same respect for your "canary yellow" coloured marsupials that they have for the tradition and power of the black jersey, and this always shows in the tri-nations. The wallabies, for their part, always get up for an AB team because historically we are the benchmark and as the Wallabies have been on the receiving end of some horrendous whuppings in the history of the game it always means more for them to play the ABs than vice versa.
Still can't believe you'd criticise the haka... waltzing matilda... jeez speculator that's just too easy...

[mikescott]

Spec, agree the haka is an embarassment but not becos it is by itself embarassing - it's becos the ABs spend more time practicising and perfecting the stupid thing than rugby itself.

And all the opposing teams have to do these days is think of the ABs begging to lick their a r s e s when the ABs stick out their tongues. Respect for the ABs = zippo, zilch, nothing.

[Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by minder


Spec, agree the haka is an embarassment but not becos it is by itself embarassing - it's becos the ABs spend more time practicising and perfecting the stupid thing than rugby itself.

And all the opposing teams have to do these days is think of the ABs begging to lick their a r s e s when the ABs stick out their tongues. Respect for the ABs = zippo, zilch, nothing.

None? zippo, zilch, nothing? Really? No respect whatsoever? I find that hard to agree with and it seems to be factless argument provoking rhetoric on your part minder. I would argue that anyone who can beat the world champs twice in two games is deserving of at least some increment of respect, and this is totally disregarding NZ's standing historically and currently as the no. 1 ranked team in the world.

[Seti]

quote:Originally posted by Speculator


The only reason you are in the OECD is that trees and grass grow so well and your country is mildly easy on the eye which is good for tourism. If you had the geography of, say Hong Kong, you would all be starving because you don't have the brains to create non-primary produce aligned wealth.



And you lot are the Silicon Valley of the South Pacific? Take away mining and agriculture and wot you got?

Your mob should remember who your friends are. Drought and fires are gradually taking their toll and when the Murray River basin finally dries up Australia will be net food importers within two generations.

As for waltzing matilda...jees. We could do the haka naked and be less embarrassed.

[mikescott]

quote:Originally posted by Cooper


quote:Originally posted by minder


Spec, agree the haka is an embarassment but not becos it is by itself embarassing - it's becos the ABs spend more time practicising and perfecting the stupid thing than rugby itself.

And all the opposing teams have to do these days is think of the ABs begging to lick their a r s e s when the ABs stick out their tongues. Respect for the ABs = zippo, zilch, nothing.

None? zippo, zilch, nothing? Really? No respect whatsoever? I find that hard to agree with and it seems to be factless argument provoking rhetoric on your part minder. I would argue that anyone who can beat the world champs twice in two games is deserving of at least some increment of respect, and this is totally disregarding NZ's standing historically and currently as the no. 1 ranked team in the world.


I should rephrase my comments - Pyschologically, all that opposing teams have to do these days, when confronted by a bunch of apes performing the stupid haka, is to think of the ABs offering to lick their a r s e s when they stick out their tongues. Then, their respect for the ABs would be zero, zilch, zippo.

BTW - beating the second grade English team without their top players like Wilkinson does not equal convincing victories. The ABs were lucky to beat the Wallabies and Springboks in the first two games - they did not look convincing at all. And sure enough, they got eaten in Sydney. Improving the P/E for SA by switching in Mehtrs show how desperate the ABs are.

[Placebo]

Bring Back Buck!

[blockhead]

Merhts is the man, he doesn't have to play well, all he has to do is think on the run, thinking, thinking, thinking, and SA are cooked.
If the tatooed wizard was thinking the other day we would have creamed the marsupials.

Blockhead

[Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by minder
Improving the P/E for SA by switching in Mehtrs show how desperate the ABs are.

P/e ratio is the same, Tuitupou is in for Carter.

[Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by minder
BTW - beating the second grade English team without their top players like Wilkinson does not equal convincing victories. The ABs were lucky to beat the Wallabies and Springboks in the first two games - they did not look convincing at all. And sure enough, they got eaten in Sydney. Improving the P/E for SA by switching in Mehtrs show how desperate the ABs are.

Lucky? I can't remember how the saying goes, but to paraphrase it, you could argue that the ABs winning one or two games out of five is luck, but four is outside the realms of statistical probability as being due to chance alone. Anyone willing to perform a Chi-Square test or something similar to prove me wrong?

[boris]

Mehrts is there because he has a better punt than Spencer and with Carter injured he is the better option for the inevitable penalties.
The AB coaching staff are demanding a game plan and then picking players that are unable to play it. Flat backlines demand very fast clean ball from the base of the ruck,scrum,maul lineout. While you have a fourth loose forward playing in the #9 jersey there will be no way that the flat backline theory can be proved. It is a sign of desparation that Tuitopu is being put on the field with rib injuries. He will give it his all as always but will be another target for the SA tacklers. How about Tana at #12 and Tuitopu at #13 to create some doubt in the SA minds.
AB's to win and SA to beat the Wallabies next week.
cheers Boris

[Placebo]

"It's a funny thing, the more I practice the luckier I get."
-- Arnold Palmer

I think you're all missing the point. Before the backs can get the ball, the forwards have to win it. They failed in the lineout, the scrum creaked, and George Smith screwed us in the loose.

Someone made the comment above about Spencer playing well behind a dominant pack. Who doesn't? The key point is, the pack needs to get its sh*t together.

Quite honestly I would love to see wholesale changes with an eye on 2007 world cup. Nick Evans at first five. Tuitupou at centre. So what if we lose a few games. No point in hyperanalysing every game we lose. What is this, Sports talkback radio? Sheesh. Get over it. Move on. ABs to lose on Saturday, but hope they play well in defeat. If they play well, win or lose I'll be happy.

[mikescott]

quote:Originally posted by Cooper


quote:Originally posted by minder
Improving the P/E for SA by switching in Mehtrs show how desperate the ABs are.

P/e ratio is the same, Tuitupou is in for Carter.


Spencer is not E ....[}:)]

[thereslifeafter87]

Tuitoupo is too small to play at centre.

The guy weighs 85 kg for christs sake.
Put him at centre, and he will be out of the game for life through injury by world cup time.

At 12 he can hit, and the loose forwards clean up if he falls off. At centre, no such luxury. Umaga will still be around in 3 years time, and the guy is a brick wall (ieramia style) but with vision.

[Gryffyn]

Sadly &gt; 87 I don't think Tana will be there for the next WC but will serve well for the next year or two. You're right about Slammin Sam at 2nd 5 though - centre might be a bit much - Ben Atinga one day maybe? If Carter eventually goes to fly half then Sammy has a future.

[mikescott]

Well, at least the ABs practised the stupid haka well and stuck their tongues out well at the opposing team - for the opposing team to get an advantage psychologically by saying 'lick our a r s e s'.[:p]

Read and weep. That ABs P/E shows that NZ rugby is done the gurgle ....too much brawn and not enough brains. [xx(]

Brains always win ...[xx(]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sports/sportsstorydisplay.cfm?storyID=3583520&thesection=sport&thesubsection=rugby&thesecondsubsection=allblacks

Chris Rattue: It's time we learned from our mistakes

11.08.2004
COMMENT

Bring back Mitch! And that is not said entirely in jest, although I am making a point rather than calling for a change.

This is proving to be a very awkward time for the New Zealand Rugby Union, who unceremoniously sacked John Mitchell, and the hordes who bellowed for Graham Henry's elevation.

There is a deafening silence in some media quarters, it has to be said, as the man they championed struggles with a team who look as though they are playing from the same page - after it's been through a shredder.

I argued after last year's World Cup that the NZRFU should re-appoint Mitchell through until the next world tournament, on the basis that New Zealand rugby would continue to struggle from pillar to post if it was weighed down by unrealistic expectations from the past.

Mitchell had, after all, produced a brilliant test side at times last year.

I am not attempting a "told-you-so" rant here, but only to again put forward the most reliable concept for success in the new rugby world.

The concept is simple. Stick with your man through thick and thin, until all avenues have been exhausted. The NZRFU did not do this with Mitchell and Robbie Deans.

The ruling body seems oblivious to the concept that coaches can actually get better, that they need time at international level to develop their theories, techniques and confidence.

Henry's team appear baffled.

For a start, I sense a dangerous hesitancy in the rookie All Black management, an inability to make bold decisions. For instance, they clearly came to believe Ali Williams was a better lock prospect, but struggled to get him in ahead of Simon Maling.

They are also dithering by not throwing Sione Lauaki into the mix. The pack needs momentum - a couple of storming Lauaki runs might change the whole picture.

Maybe the laptop glow is too bright, because the selectors seem unable to spot a blinding talent in front of their eyes.

Back to Mitchell, who was not only sacked for the World Cup "failure" but also apparently for the offhand way he treated his bosses, the media and - heaven help him - the sponsors.

Once again, I say, look at England. The prickly Sir Clive Woodward survived a hellish start and, with a contract that exuded confidence rather than scepticism in his ability, produced a world champion side.

On that basis, the NZRFU not only erred with Mitchell, but should stick with Henry and give him a long-term contract now.

The dumping of Mitchell - instead of working to correct him in problem areas - was a knee-jerk reaction from a ruling body that does not understand what breeds success at these levels.

The new NZRFU regime was over-eager to stamp its mark, blinded by personalities, wanted to court public favour, and rebuild the empire rather than stick with a hand-me-down coach.

At this point, the All Blacks of 2004 would rate at three out of 10, and falling.

Henry, and his lieutenants Steve Hansen and Wayne Smith, are struggling with the realities of international rugby when in charge of a team who are expected to win.

The All Blacks descended into a rabble in Sydney. It was one of the worst performances in many years because that is not a great Australian team. It was an embarrassing loss.

Australia have some exceptional players in their backline, but they are surviving on a midget lineout and a tight five that wouldn't scare anyone in the NPC. Seriously.

It is ordinary to say the least, so ordinary that for frontrow h

[Major von Tempsky]

I'm a Mehrts fan but I think what has held the coaches/selectors back is his lack of tackling. Ok, he may create 3 tries, but at the same time let in 4.
I think they rerun the tapes after the games and find that most of the tries scored against them are via a tackling hole called Mehrts. Somehow he's not quite there for the tackle or they brush through him. Sure he makes one or two good tackles a game in front of the camera but basically he's tackle shy.
We're really taking a bet that he kicks more points, creates more tries, rips off more ground in raking touchfinders/tactical kicks than he lets in.
Let's hope the bet comes off - it often has in the past but sometimes it hasn't and that's when he gets dropped.

[Speculator]

Actually, I am not an Australian; I just support their rugby team.

[Longtack]

Speculator From the outset I assumed you were a Boer - well you write how a Boer speaks in my experience. I don't like rugby, most of the NZ players at rep' level and above appear to be mentally challenged, nor its supporters nor it's culture. If I supported any team it wld be the Strines.

[Cooper]

quote:Originally posted by minder


quote:Originally posted by Cooper


quote:Originally posted by minder
Improving the P/E for SA by switching in Mehtrs show how desperate the ABs are.

P/e ratio is the same, Tuitupou is in for Carter.


Spencer is not E ....[}:)]


You're right, sorry... completely set myself up for that one :D

[Gryffyn]

Is it time to start our picks for this weeks game? Spec won last week by virtue fo picking the correct team.

This week I'm picking the same score again! Merts factor to be the difference -

ABs 27 - 18

[MPC]

AB,s 36 16

[Speculator]

Africans 41
Polynesian A 19

[blackcap]

SA Jaapies 23

NZ AB's 18

[Placebo]

SA 25 NZ 18.

In think the altitude and the last 4 weeks will catch up with us.

Africans to win the Tri-Nations with 2 home wins plus bonus point vs Aust

[Gryffyn]

Wow that was quick response. So far then:

Gryffyn: ABs 27 - 18
MPC: ABs 36 - 16
Speculator: SA 41 - 19
Blackcap: SA 23 - 18
Placebo: SA 25 - 18

Different tunes from last week!

[Cooper]

35-18 to the ABs

[Leai_Se_Tupe]

My guess is that one side will have more points than the other side unless they draw. (The charts are a bit ambiguous on this one)

[Speculator]

I predict total humiliation for Polynesian A. The upshot of which, for the first time a woman will be appointed coach. Thus women will hold all the top jobs in NZ (in order of importance):

Rugby Coach
Prime Minister
Governor General
Attorney General
Netball Coach
Minister of Justice
TV1 anchor

[Lawso]

Don' t forget Capitalist and KittyD on ST!

[bermuda]

Just saw the news.Henry has given the AB's a huge and tiring workout at sea level prior to Saturday's game at altitude.What is he doing? Repeating Vanadovich's mistake of working the AB's to death prior to the big day and leaving them tired and jaded which they were last week and sure as eggs they are going to be exhausted fellows on Saturday. I remember my earlier days of playing rugby.If we missed training during during the week due to weather then we really came out fizzing on Saturday. SA 29 AB 23.And if we do lose that will definitely be the last flat backline you see from Wayne Smith.Wayne calls the shots on the backline,Henry is in charge of defence.

[southernman]

White 1.
Henry Ziltch.


quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Is it time to start our picks for this weeks game? Spec won last week by virtue fo picking the correct team.

This week I'm picking the same score again! Merts factor to be the difference -

ABs 27 - 18

[Speculator]

Interesting point Bermuda. There was a point made after the semi-final loss last year at the world cup by Arthur Lydiard. He said, and this was all but completely ignored by the brain-dead press, that the PA's were tired on the day of the game because their ATP stores had not had time to regenerate prior to the game. They were flat in other words (depleted ATP).

I agree that rest is one of the most important things before a big game, and they should have Thursday and Friday off.

On the other hand we read about the American swimmer, Phelps, who trains every day of the year. In tests he has been shown to be somewhat of a genetic abnormality so we can probably put his training regimen aside as an indicator of best practice (sorry for the B. Com. speak!)

[Gryffyn]

Gryffyn: ABs 27 - 18
MPC: ABs 36 - 16
Speculator: SA 41 - 19
Blackcap: SA 23 - 18
Placebo: SA 25 - 18
Cooper: ABs 35 - 18
Bermuda: SA 29 - 23

[blockhead]

AB's 35 SA 25

2 sin binnings (AB's) and one SA early shower

Blockhead

[Gryffyn]

Gryffyn: ABs 27 - 18
MPC: ABs 36 - 16
Speculator: SA 41 - 19
Blackcap: SA 23 - 18
Placebo: SA 25 - 18
Cooper: ABs 35 - 18
Bermuda: SA 29 - 23
Blockhead: ABs 35 - 25

[Seti]

Put me down for ABs 40, Jaapies 11.

[CHEQUERS]

Hi Fellas / Fellesses

AB's to demolish them - NZ 42 SA 16

Confidence!

[Gryffyn]

Gryffyn: ABs 27 - 18
MPC: ABs 36 - 16
Speculator: SA 41 - 19
Blackcap: SA 23 - 18
Placebo: SA 25 - 18
Cooper: ABs 35 - 18
Bermuda: SA 29 - 23
Blockhead: ABs 35 - 25
Seti: ABs 40 - 11
Chequers: ABs 42 - 16

[Futurz]

I can't understand all these negative comments regarding Merths coming back in @ 1st 5[?]

The man is our BEST 1st 5 of all time, no doubt, full stop!!![B)]

I couldn't think of anyone better to bring in to the team in this situation.

The game will be close, watch for an early sub in the second half when SPECULATOR'S mother comes on at tighthead prop for the Yappies :D

AB's to win 29-18

[Lawso]

What part of Canterbury do you live in, Futurz?
Mehrtens lost the final for us in SA by failing with a dropkick instead of passing when the try was on outside him. He hates tackling and hates even more being tackled, which is why he unloads in haste and get his kicks charged down more often than any All Black I've ever seen.

[Futurz]

quote:Originally posted by Lawso

What part of Canterbury do you live in, Futurz?
Mehrtens lost the final for us in SA by failing with a dropkick instead of passing when the try was on outside him. He hates tackling and hates even more being tackled, which is why he unloads in haste and get his kicks charged down more often than any All Black I've ever seen.


Wellington born and bred Lawso [8D]

I just respect the talent that is Mehrtens. No other player can float that awesome skip pass of his that has lead to so many tries for the outside backs. It is this that will win us the game, that and his un-rivalled territory kicking game. The man has an impressive punt on him, especially at altitude.

For the record I'll be at the stadium tonight to watch the mighty Wellington Lions stick it to those one-eyed[B)] cantabs [8D]

[Placebo]

You're only as good as your pack, Lawso [8D]

We will lose because our eight will be sucking it in at altitude in the last 15 mins, the period of the game they managed to dominate in the games they have won. There'll be no last-minute heroics this time.

Merts is a champion, no doubt. But so is Spencer. Horses for courses. The ball flies further at altitude and Mehrtens has more accuracy in his kicking game.

Let's just hope they give the ball to Joe R. Is there a finer athlete in the game? What a shame he's not running the 400 at Athens!:D

[Wiremu]

Merhts playing, Marshall playing, Springboks 26 -All Blacks 8.

Springbok tries scored directly off a Mehrtens error = 2

[Gryffyn]

Gryffyn: ABs 27 - 18
MPC: ABs 36 - 16
Speculator: SA 41 - 19
Blackcap: SA 23 - 18
Placebo: SA 25 - 18
Cooper: ABs 35 - 18
Bermuda: SA 29 - 23
Blockhead: ABs 35 - 25
Seti: ABs 40 - 11
Chequers: ABs 42 - 16
Futurz: ABs 29 - 18
Wiremu: SA 26 - 8

[Lawso]

Good on you, Futurz. I'm Wellington born, bred and schooled as well, but haven't lived there since I was 18. I agree Mehrtens has a great boot, but that's all IMHO.

Go the Lions!

[Ted2]

quote:Originally posted by Lawso

Good on you, Futurz. I'm Wellington born, bred and schooled as well, but haven't lived there since I was 18. I agree Mehrtens has a great boot, but that's all IMHO.

Go the Lions!


God enoughs enough!

Spencer has NOT lived up to the hype. It has been rare for him to show he can have an impact at International level. A pre-requisite for a 1st Five is to be able to pass. [u]Carlos can not! </u>

Spencer is the Graeme Hick of Rugby - a flat track bully. Great at Super 12 level, iffy at International level.

Irrespective of Marshall's attributes, or lack thereof, Mehrtens has been able to shine in conjunction with him behind far inferior forward packs than our current one. Why can't Carlos?


And re the forwards - someone needs to show a video to them of how they played against the poms (as 8). It's called an '8' for a reason - not a '3' or a '4' as Mitchell used, and as we did last week. Get your ugly heads in together and leave the backs to do what they do!

[Gryffyn]

Yeah, probably won't go to the caketin tonight but will cheer at home. Go the Lions, then tomorrow Go the ABs, then go Chelsea, then go Schumy, then go kiwi in Athens. Lot of cheering to be done this weekend!

[Futurz]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Yeah, probably won't go to the caketin tonight but will cheer at home. Go the Lions, then tomorrow Go the ABs, then go Chelsea, then go Schumy, then go kiwi in Athens. Lot of cheering to be done this weekend!


Thats the spirit Gryf :) You back your team/s though the good and the bad and don't start moaning cause they've lost one game[}:)]

Should be a good weekend for sport...anyway off to the stadium I go:D

[Speculator]

Speaking of mothers Futurz, I saw yours on K-Rd with a plastic bag of glue and two male negroes.

She said that after they give her the rear end pleasure she so likes she gets high to take away the pain of having birthed a piece of work like you.

Later on she was going to make some extra pocket money on her knees with Asians.

[cantab]

I see Wendell Sailor is predicting a win to SA by 7 points. That's logical because last time was a close thing and this isn't ChCh, the boks play better at home in front of their crowd, this is at altitude, a couple of our guys are carrying injuries, no Robinson, no McCaw, and perhaps we're lacking confidence whereas the boks wont be. Hope I'm wrong though and instead we win with a bonus point. Once we get a few of our good players back we are good enough to beat anybody. There is no need to press the panic button just yet.

Cantab

Somehow we need to get that win at all costs attitude that the Aussies have got. Skill wise we are better than them.

[Gryffyn]

I'm not sure we are that more skilled in the mid field and back line. Oz have some classy players and I think we listen to our own press too much about how good our 3/4s are - they are good, but so are Ozs. In the forwards, overall, maybe we out point them but they did enough last week to nullify it.

Anyway - good start to the weekend sport - Lions had a good win over Canturbury! Woohoo!

[mikescott]

The ABs will win if they don't perform that 'I want to lick your
a r s e' tongue poking haka tonight.

Otherwise, it's 28/15 to the SA. [xx(]

[Wiremu]

Ted2

In the time that Mehrtens & Spencer have been vying for the first five position, Mehrts has lost us two world cups, and Spencer has been at the helm for all of the big convincing wins.

Mehrts will show his deficiencies once more tonight.

[Gryffyn]

Who was at the helm when we won our first series in SA?

[Gryffyn]

Go the ABs. Go the Haka - if for nothing else than to entertain and delight patriotic kiwis the world over.

[Leai_Se_Tupe]

David Lange I think :)

[mikescott]

Yes, go the ABs with the stupid haka that they have practised to perfection at the expense of the rugby :

Talking about wrong priority - the stupid haka is all that the ABs do very well these days. Yet they still don't appear to know that the opposing teams laugh at their antics! Watch the Wallabies at last week's game after the haka - there were many a smirk on faces. They must be laughing themself sick inside at the sight of the apes jumping about.

Watch the SA make mincemeat and fools of the ABs tonight. [xx(]

[The GrandMaster]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Who was at the helm when we won our first series in SA?


Certainly wasn't the over-rated Merhtens. In fact Simon Culhane was the starting 1st five, with Jon Preston subbing on in most of the games. Merhtens came back from injury for the last test - when we had already sewn up the series - and not surprisingly we lost that one.

For all the talk about Merhtens, I cannot recall any big games when he has led us to victory.....

[Sideshow Bob]

Get that replacement ref (and the TV ref) some dark glasses, a white cane and a guide dog.

[Speculator]

Told you so. The spirit of Shaka arose tonight and smote Polynesian A. By rights you should now be at the bottom of the Tri-Nations. The win in NZ against SA was undeserved. You also get no bonus points.

Your Olympic Boxing Team, all of whom are convicted baby killers, exited from the Olympics tonite as well. It has been a great day for NZ haters.

Now the blow-torch of public opinion will burn Henry and there will be axings aplenty. More pain awaits you against the great French team later this year.

How does it feel???

[biker]

Speculator, a typical response from a rock spider.Hate is a wasted emotion in my humble opinion.I think the all blacks were beaten by a better team this morning but the previous win by NZ against SA was well deserved. It is only a game of rugby after all. Where does the hate come in? Get a life before you suddenly realise what youve had is all there is.

[blockhead]

Agree Biker, couldn't blame Merhrts for that loss, missed tackles by Umaga, dropped ball from Howlett and a strange preconceived plan by the coachs to play high risk kick offs and long inacurate passes on our goal line.

And Spec, yes he has certainly had un unfortunate existence so far judging by his take on life.

Blockhead, ...watching the snowflakes fall

[Cooper]

Yep, I agree wholeheartedly... better team won, all the players who should have been on the paddock were, and the AB's were beaten by a strong resurgent Bok team. Right from the start you could tell the bok's were passionate and the ABs would struggle, and we made too many handling errors to win.
I picked the ABs by 13+, so it's humble pie for brunch again....

[mikescott]

quote:Originally posted by minder

Yes, go the ABs with the stupid haka that they have practised to perfection at the expense of the rugby :

Talking about wrong priority - the stupid haka is all that the ABs do very well these days. Yet they still don't appear to know that the opposing teams laugh at their antics! Watch the Wallabies at last week's game after the haka - there were many a smirk on faces. They must be laughing themself sick inside at the sight of the apes jumping about.

Watch the SA make mincemeat and fools of the ABs tonight. [xx(]


Fortunately not mincemeat but bonus point to the SA to carry into the next match. The Tri-Nation is gone. [xx(]

So let's do that stupid haka again :

'Kamate. Kamate.

Watch us lose. Watch us lose.

Watch us stick our tongue out to kiss your a r s e.

Kiss your a r s e.':D:D:D:D

The wins against a third rate English team were not real wins. The first two wins against the Wallabies and Springboks were not convincing and pointed to all kinds of problems. Did the ABs and coaches made any changes? No - until they were beaten in Sydney.

Then, it's out with the flat backline, out with Spencer etc. Too late, folks - it's back to the drawing board for Henry and the ABs.

That pretty much sums up the ABs these days. Say what you want, guys, but blind patriotism and blind faith are the worse form of support.[^]

First big change required - a new captain who is a real strategist, leader and thinker.

[mikescott]

quote:Originally posted by Gryffyn

Scrum was fine. Don't push any panic buttons. Smith excellent coach. Outplayed last night especially around the breakdown - too many turnovers. Yes, bring in Lauaki - will add speed and punch.

One loss and some people are ditching the ABs and rugby! Who needs fair-weather lightweight supporters. All on now for the SA trip.




Blind support and blind patriotism - who needs fair-weather lightweight supporters?

It's panic time for the ABs - watch excuses flow like mosquitoes in a humid Auckland night in mid-summer.

[Gryffyn]

Wins are wins! Today we lost - again. Bugger. Not as good as we think we are and forwards are not pulling their weight. Interesting game next week for SA.

[Sideshow Bob]

Disappointed with the AB loss, but great to see the Boks play with such determination, pride and passion which has seemed to have been missing in the last few years.

Indeed interesting game next week, and will be hoping the Boks can do it again.

[Speculator]

If SA win next week against the Wallabies and the Wallabies get a bonus point - correct me if I'm wrong - but Polynesian A will finish at the bottom of the Tri-nations table for the first time.

[Gryffyn]

You're not wrong but if not 1st then who cares. We blew it.

[duncan macgregor]

Simple message to one and all change the plan, be more unpredictable or get run over. This applies to a lot more than rugby. If everyone knows your next move and you are that stupid you dont or wont change then you become an easy beat. Whats the bet [bring back BUCK]as coach Is the next move. I pick SA to beat AUS next week CHEERS MACDUNK

[Toulouse - Luzern]

Got back mid afternoon on Saturday 7 Aug from a month in Europe (direct flight). Crashed off to bed, set the alarm to get up and watch NZ- OZ. Best team won on the day.

Hard to believe the change in the AB's from an obviously unsound strategic approach.

I think the NZ - Boks result was totally *predictable & again the best team won.

(*I chose SA in the office sweep.)

[Speculator]

Just reviewing the tape of the game. If Percy didn't have such a bad night it would have been a 50 + point victory to the SA's. Mindblowing stuff.

I would like SA to win next week and if they do then everyone will have won their home games. Wouldn't it be a fairer competition if each game was in the third country? Probably not done because it would reduce revenue too much as people couldn't go to their homeside games.

Now applying all psychic energy to Olympic failure of NZ. Worked on Basketball last night. Unfortunately, twins look like dead-set winners. Can only hope that another crew has undetectable steroids to get them to the line first.

Probable victory for cyclist too. Damn!

[mikescott]

Here's Henry's excuses for losing last night :

New Zealand coach Graham Henry put down his team's defeat to their inability to get enough possession.

"We didn't get a lot of ball and the few opportunities we created, we couldn't finish," Henry said. "But that shows the quality of the opposition.

"The Springboks put us under pressure and caused us to make mistakes we don't normally make."

[Sideshow Bob]

Are these not the standard All Black loss excuses???

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

I think it will be interesting to see if, given the same situations in SA & Aus, the AB's can deliver the similar results. EG:last minute try to win...


When you look at both of the away games, it was not even close...[xx(]

[mikescott]

Serious, sober reflection is required by the All Blacks selectors and management. The team's performances in this competition have got steadily worse, not better. And that ought to alarm all New Zealand rugby fans.

Well, u all njow know the drill :

'Kamate. Kamate.

We stick our tongues out to ...'

Peter Bills: Bumbling display ignores the basics

16.08.2004


You could say that New Zealand's rugby men resembled headless chooks in Johannesburg at times. But then, maybe that would be unkind to chooks.

Words such as clueless had been used to describe the All Blacks' performances earlier in this tournament, in Christchurch and Sydney. But if you thought it couldn't get worse, then you had another think coming.

This must rank as one of the poorest displays from an All Black side in years. All the horrors were there - knock-ons, turnovers, needlessly conceded penalties, wildly ambitious decision-making, a hopeless lack of precision and woefully inaccurate passing, not to mention a complete lack of structure and pattern in their game. Well, that will do for starters, anyway.

Tana Umaga's men found just about every possible method of being penalised, from slipping the scrum binding, not releasing, obstruction and illegal use of the boot to hands in the ruck and offside. It was a tour de force in demonstrating the illegalities of the game.

The lack of tactical nous and inability of the forwards to assert any kind of control was alarming. The All Blacks constantly ran the ball behind the gain line as though it were a game of sevens, and continued to do so as they went backwards.

In the current world of All Black rugby, kicking to touch from inside your own 22 is virtually disallowed, even on the South African high veldt where a well-struck kick travels miles. Thus, the sheer predictability of attacking the ball-carrier, a la rugby league, is easy for the attacking team. No variety, no changing of the tactics. One variety they did try was farcical. Xavier Rush's desperation to take a drop-out on his own 22 ended up without a kick, just a pass back between his legs, like league. Predictably, that brought an attacking scrum for South Africa.

New Zealand's players turned up all over the field. Chris Jack appeared on the right wing and his presence probably cost Doug Howlett a first-half try, Carl Hayman popped up at first five-eighths on one occasion. The lack of patience and composure was remarkable; the high, hopeful pass Mils Muliaina aimed at Howlett with five minutes left, which the wing promptly knocked on, summed up New Zealand's disastrous day.

To see a New Zealand team play an international match with such little tactical acumen must have alarmed All Blacks of old. Where was the decision-making, where was the tactical thinking and the cunning to put the Springboks on the back foot? Nowhere in sight.

Percy Montgomery's wayward goalkicking kept New Zealand in the match but there was no disguising the greater momentum and, yes, desire of the South African side. That deep hunger for victory was best demonstrated by Marius Joubert, scorer of a hat-trick of tries and maker of countless crushing tackles. No matter how hard the All Blacks hit him, Joubert got up.

The All Black forwards could not snatch a single one of the Springboks' 10 lineout throws but lost two of their own. In a match of 24 penalties, they were awarded 14 but could do little with them, apart from Mehrtens' four penalty goals. But Mehrtens was by no means completely convincing. The hopeless, lobbed hospital pass he threw at Muliaina in the first half led to Breyton Paulse's try and the South African forwards exposed the first five-eighth on defence.

Perhaps this second consecutive defeat will put into perspective New Zealand's double hammering of a woeful England side this season. It seems clear now that far too much was read into those overwhelming wins for the All Blacks' own good. Defeats to Australia and South Africa have exposed a horrible cluster of failings in

[marinesalvor]

sadly we dont have the intellectual ability to win at Rugby anymore - our players are so young and one dimensional... no real commitment or application shown by our chaps in the last 20. The Boks were putting their bodies on the line to secure the ball, our guys were so worried they would break a nail, or get bruising and not be able to do photo shoots

pathetic - they deserve to be last in the TriNations

[bermuda]

Minder,agree your analysis of this pathetic performance.Paulse's try however came about after Marshall cleared the ball from a scrum to a very flat backline where the ball was shuffled out towards the wing with the Boks backs right up on us.In a tackle the ball popped out and the Boks capitalised on it with a try to Paulse.If we had been standing deep and running our backline at pace at the Boks this would not have happened.Mehrtens had a good game overall and was not the cause of Paulse's try.

[thereslifeafter87]

Mehrtens did not have a good game.

His option taking was at times simply idiotic.

I saw him attempt about 10 tackles in the game - at no time did he do more than slow the ball carrier down - he did not complete ANY tackles.

He was woefully exposed on defence, and when he tried to run.

His one saving grace was his near-flawless goal-kicking.

Marshall was nowhere to be seen all game. He had an absolute shocker, including missing a one-on one tackle on joubert to allow him through towards the line. This guy is supposed to be our no.1 halfback, in the team because he plays like a loose-forward? He can't even do that job, let alone the job of clearing the ball. Watch him take a couple of steps before every pass from the base of the ruck.

Byron Kelleher should be in the team. No question.
Bring back Spencer too.

Also, Richie McCaw can't recover fast enough IMO. Our loosies were completely outplayed, with only a plucky performance from Xavier Rush keeping our forwards in the game. Marty Holah was AWOL most of the game, while Jono Gibbes was only average.

Our tight five were too slow to the breakdowns, and did not hunt as a pack. Altitude might have had something to do with that, except for the fact that it was the same in the previous game against Aussie.

Our three-quarters (except for Howletts handling errors) were outstanding. We simply can't give them enough ball in a game.

Muliaina showed his true ability when he got the ball with a bit of space. See-you later Paulse and Montgomery. Likewise Rocokoko showed pace and strength again - but got isolated because Holah just wasn't there.

The South Africans cheated at ruck and mall time better than we did, and consequently slowed the ball down beautifully. Our pack needed to be more aggressive in removing players as they were against the English.

'Mr Go-forward' Tuiali'i who everyone keeps talking about turned out to be 'Mr Go-backwards'. Rush out-performs this guy in every facet of the game.

Tuitoupo had great go-forward, but fell off a number of tackles. Carter has silky skills and is solid in defence, so on his recovery I would have him ahead of Sam, especially due to his goal-kicking ability. I wouldn't trust Spencer's boot in a clinch, but Mehrtens is simply too leaky and wayward to be the no.1 1st five.

[Speculator]

Clearly, Henry must tender his resignation forthwith. He is an incompetent coach.

In fact the All Blacks have been outclassed in every Tri Nations game. I don't include the water rugby game because it is a bit checky expecting the Wallabies to play in that weather because you are too broke to cover your stadium.

Henry must go. Mitchell is your best bet.

There must be a cleanout of players. They have no pride. Players to be sacked include Hairdo Howlett, Umaga, Marshall, the Girlie Men of the front row, Rush. They must be axed to send a message.

The Romans had the right idea. Decimation. One in ten are executed. Make it one in five for Polynesian A. Line them up and randomly cull one in five. That will shake them up. If you don't perform as a team one in five will be axed randomly never to play for Polynesian A again.

[mikescott]

Afraid I have to agree with Speculator that Henry has to go. The guy is a king size loser!

Get this - this loser Henry actually believes it is NZers to be blamed for the ABs losing! :D:D

How about getting rid of that stupid haka first, Henry:

'Kamate. Kamate.

Kiss your a r s e. Kiss your a r s e.

We stick our tongues out to kiss your ....'[:p]


ABs fans expecting too much - Henry
16 August 2004
By JIM KAYES

The All Blacks are suffering from a lack of confidence and coach Graham Henry blames it on the national psyche.


"It seems that too often the public take All Black wins for granted. Those expectations, and the adverse reaction that can follow a defeat, are inhibiting the players.

"We're inclined in New Zealand to think the opposition are not as good as us," Henry said soon after learning that wasn't true as he watched the All Blacks lose 40-26 to South Africa at Ellis Park yesterday.

"The Australians and South Africans are as good as us. They've proved that and if we want to get better we have to work hard through all our rugby - through our NPC, Super 12 and All Blacks rugby to produce a better side.

"It's not something that can be done in isolation."

There was certainly no one at Ellis Park yesterday who would have disagreed that South Africa had shown they were as good as New Zealand, if not better.

Their five tries to two thumping was an emphatic way to break an eight-match losing streak that stretched back four years, and the 14-point margin was the second worst in 65 tests between the old foes.

The defeat knocked the All Blacks out of Tri-Nations contention and left the Springboks needing a win against Australia in Durban this weekend to win the tournament for the first time since 1998.

For the All Blacks, and Henry and his coaching staff of Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen in particular, there are greater things to worry about.

Somehow they have to rediscover the spark in this All Blacks side, particularly the backs, whose play is a shadow of that which graced the Tri-Nations last year.

Henry said when he took over as coach last December that New Zealand's forward play was in need of urgent attention.

It still does because the All Blacks have learnt one of rugby's most basic lessons in their losses to Australia and South Africa - you cannot win test matches out wide if the work is not done up front first.

"There have been signs of that," Henry said when asked if the pack was progressing.

"Some games have been very good and other games it's been a bit flaky.

"Generally speaking, the forward play probably has improved and the back play has gone back a wee bit."

It's not been helped by the passion for a flat attack, with the net result a loss of confidence so acute that skilful players are dropping easy passes and possible tries are being botched.

The All Blacks are also too one-dimensional in their game plan, which makes them predictable and easy to defend against.

In the first half at Ellis Park they tried to go wide with indecent haste to avoid taking on the Springboks pack.

Things tightened up a bit early in the second half, which produced a solid try to wing Joe Rokocoko. But it was too little too late. This was to be South Africa's afternoon.

Henry defended the tactics of the All Blacks and claimed they were not changed at halftime.

He did concede the All Blacks lacked composure, dropped too much ball and missed too many tackles.

"We want to play an attractive style of rugby but we haven't produced the foundation to do that.

"There seems to be a lack of real confidence in what they're doing and we don't understand that entirely.

"For sides to play outstanding rugby at this level they need to have a huge amount of self-belief.

"Generally there has not been the total confidence that you need to be an outstanding rugby team yet."

That lack of confidence could come from the All Blacks' trials and tribulations o

[Speculator]

Henry has got every excuse in the book! What a litany of cop outs.

The fact is he has not done his job and must be axed along with many of the Girlie Men in Polynesian A.

Gutless babies the lot of them! Let them return to suckle.

I can not believe Umaga deserted his team after the Wallabies defeat to come back to NZ for the birth of his kid. Where are your priorities, sucker! You are the captain of the team, jsut taken apart by the Wallabies and you turn your back. Umaga must go!

[Placebo]

quote:Now applying all psychic energy to Olympic failure of NZ. Worked on Basketball last night. Unfortunately, twins look like dead-set winners.

B*st*rd Spec! You knocked the wrong girls outta their boat! Lay off the psychic stuff Kreskulator!

Re the rugger, our tactical approach was all wrong. First rule of rugby? Play the game in the opposition half. Mehrtens' field kicking was very poor, didn't hit the touch lines, gave SA the chance to run back at us. And of course every time the ball goes out, play slows down, so Mehrtens' aimless kicking sped up the pace of the game, a mistake at altitude. No coincidence the Yappies only got away on us in the last 15min.

And we were beaten at the breakdown, again. How much of this tactical blundering is down to captaincy, how much to coaching instructions? Hard to tell.

But curiously we did go back to basics at times, and when we did we punched through SA defence almost at will. Why we moved away from this approach is beyond me. The collective mindset among the team seems to be to pass responsibility (the ball) to someone else. Hence the in-your-own-22 high-risk passing and hospital passes to set up Mils for the turnover.

We have had an ordinary season. A couple of good wins, two disappointing losses. But as I've been saying all along, does it really matter? The aim should be longer term than this season. Losses can be good, provided you learn from them.

Here's hoping Henry/Smith/Hansen can get their heads around an end-of-season development tour, take some young blokes away and build a squad with good depth for next season and beyond. What we really need is good competition in key positions, particularly loosies, No.9, 1st 5 and wings.

2 observations on just-started domestic season.

1. Don't Waikato look a good side? Wonder who's coaching them??! My pick for NPC champions.

2. Influence of returning pros. e.g. Cashmore for Bay of Plenty. This is something we're going to see more and more of... those blokes who took the money and ran a few years back, many are now returning to the NZ game with a whole lot of experience and knowledge. Surely this can only be good for NZ rugby. This is a resource we should use, because we have been without the depth these kind of guys provide for far too long.

PS: I believe Henry is the right man for ABs coach.