Non-winners win all the Sports Awards

[winner69]

Probably indicative of the state of this country but it looks like a pack of non-winners are cleaning up at the Halbergs

The All Whites had a fnatastic season .... against all odds .... but they didn't win much except a place in the World Cup Finals and then they didn't even get into the final eight

Oh well .... might inspire others just to try bit harder and participate .... you never know they just might win a Helberg as well

Awards just as this should go to WINNERS

[winner69]

Ryan will be gutted ... Richie wins the Sportsman of the Year

Hope he goes on and wins the big one now

[shasta]

Ryan will be gutted ... Richie wins the Sportsman of the Year

Hope he goes on and wins the big one now

Ryan hasn't won anything thru football though, & i agree, winning must surely be the first criteria for nominees!

If Blackburn won the Premiership or the Champions League, then as club captain (not on field thats Christopher Samba) he should win it

What the All Whites achieved at the world cup whilst impressive, the facts are that the best 32 teams do not make it, due to geographical zoning & 3 draws just doesnt cut it...

But as you know the PC bridage want the Dolphins v the Peguins we dont keep the score!

[minimoke]

C'mon folks. Its not the winning that counts its the participation thats important. NZ clearly loves triers not achievers.

[Serpie]

C'mon folks. Its not the winning that counts its the participation thats important. NZ clearly loves triers not achievers.

So we're saying that the All Whites didn't achieve anything?

Even when we're trying to celebrate the past year's achievements of our sports men and women we need to have a dig if opinions do not match our own.

Some people just love to have a good old moan, and anything will do. Turn off your PC's, open the curtains, get out of your pyjamas and go for a walk. It's a wonderful world out there!

[minimoke]

So we're saying that the All Whites didn't achieve anything?

No. But the Halbergs are supposed to be the Creme de la creme of our sports achievements.

Don't get me wrong, the All Whites run was a lot of fun - but we need a bit of perspective. They had a run in the weakest confederation. Sure they did well to get to where they did - but the very best of NZ sportsmen in 2010?

What about the Sevens - winners all the way. Or the League (what do they need to win?) winning the Four Nations. Or the Black Ferns - won the fourth consecutive World Cup

[winner69]

That skiers feat seem really great in World Champs in an event that is going to become an Olympic event .... elite sking is pretty global (except for the Jamacian bobsled team) and very competitive .... but heck can't even remember the guys name

On the All Whites performance when you take into account population and all that if the Black Caps make the semi finals of the World Cup they deserve to be next years winners

[minimoke]

On the All Whites performance when you take into account population and all that if the Black Caps make the semi finals of the World Cup they deserve to be next years winners
If NZ were to play and beat Kenya and the Netherlands I'd be inclined to agree. Sin e they don't get that opportunity they will need to beat Canada to get a nomination. Unfortunately they will be up against the All Blacks and no matter the Rugby World cup outcome the All Blacks will come away winners at next years awards. If we are going to take a box above our weight / population approach we'll be cheering Nigel Richards to success this year for his tilt at an Award

[chippy52]

If the all whites don't deserve the award , then who does ?The all blacks / silver ferns have not achieved anything they haven't in the past . Ritchie has had no new achievements. At least the all whites had to achieve something to actually attend the world cup . Give them a break .

[skeet]

All Blacks havent won anything of value since 1987!

[shasta]

All Blacks havent won anything of value since 1987!

That was at home & without South Africa!

[Kees]

TV one poll says it all 58% for the all whites kiwis sick of rugby and all the b/****.

[ratkin]

All whites achieved more than most you rugby lovers will ever know.

[skeet]

What about the Sevens - winners all the way.

Hardly, havent been champions since 2008, 2nd last year 4th the year before.
I would hardly call that "Creme de la creme of our sports achievements"

"If you ain't first, you're last. You know, you know what I'm talking about?" - Ricky Bobby

[shasta]

All whites achieved more than most you rugby lovers will ever know.

No argument from me, that what the All Whites achieved was "special" & you know im a roundball fanatic - but the Narcissist in me says winning must be the criteria.

The All Blacks won 13/14 matches but globally, Theres only us, Australia, South Africa, England & maybe France who are competitive, with the Netball its only us & Australia.

Womens rugby & sevens are only played by the major nations, so on the global stage theres not much competition, i also think the Kiwis winning a nothing on the line 4 nations tournament doesn't qualify either.

Who are the world champions, defending champions, gold medal winners, surely these athletes & teams are what the awards are about!

I'm dead against the PC, sandal wearing, tofu eating, its the Dolphins v the Penguins & we dont keep the score bridage!

We can leave the warm & fuzzy, fluffy heart warming "moments of the year awards" for Campbell Live/Close Up text in polls

[duncan macgregor]

My proudest moment was winning a cup for being best loser. I won cups for winning, a cup for being the most scientific boxer, but the cup for being the best loser was the best cup of all. It brought more tears to my eyes than the first smack on the dummy. I think the all whites being what they are in the sport deserve the award for having the guts to stand up to the multi million dollar players and come out without a loss. That was a greater acheavement than anything the All blacks have done this time round. Incidently I wouldnt look over the fence to watch a soccer game, bunch of poofs if you ask me. Macdunk

[robo]

My proudest moment was winning a cup for being best loser. I won cups for winning, a cup for being the most scientific boxer, but the cup for being the best loser was the best cup of all. It brought more tears to my eyes than the first smack on the dummy. I think the all whites being what they are in the sport deserve the award for having the guts to stand up to the multi million dollar players and come out without a loss. That was a greater acheavement than anything the All blacks have done this time round. Incidently I wouldnt look over the fence to watch a soccer game, bunch of poofs if you ask me. Macdunk


Agree on just about all your points made Mac However Ive met some pretty hard lads that play soccer who I would not want to mess with, I dont have your boxing background though :) i love rugby but all the rugby facists should think about the huge number of young fellas that look up to the All Whites and just give them their time in the sun !

We need children to play any sport these days, the future medical implications of inactive kids is horrifiying

[macduffy]

I reckon it would have been far better for Dick Tayler to make his point by quietly resigning, sometime down the track, without any fanfare.

The Halberg Awards are supposed to be about the athletes, not the judges.

[shasta]

My proudest moment was winning a cup for being best loser. I won cups for winning, a cup for being the most scientific boxer, but the cup for being the best loser was the best cup of all. It brought more tears to my eyes than the first smack on the dummy. I think the all whites being what they are in the sport deserve the award for having the guts to stand up to the multi million dollar players and come out without a loss. That was a greater acheavement than anything the All blacks have done this time round. Incidently I wouldnt look over the fence to watch a soccer game, bunch of poofs if you ask me. Macdunk

The name is FOOTBALL ;)

Only the bloody Yanks & the NZ media call it Soccer

[barney]

So if the standard is that you have to be the best team/athlete in the world (ie world cup winners ) then the likelyhood of the All Whites ever winning a Halberg award is basically nil. They will never be world champions.

An interesting question then arises. Is the All Whites 26th world cup ranking in world football a better achievement than what the All Blacks,Kiwi's,Silver ferns etc achived during the year ? Given the number of teams that play football ( soccer ) around the world ,and there must be hundreds, this would seem quite an achievement as compared to the other achivements of teams nominated in the Halbergs. Rugby only has about six serious contenders (world cup winning countries are even less, four in total ). There are only three serious contenders in rugby league and really only two in netball. The same could be said for a lot of other sports that Kiwi's compete in.

Is winning a competition with only a handfull of serious competitors really a Halberg winning achievement compared to being unbeaten and coming 26th in a "real world cup ". I do'nt think so.

[shasta]

So if the standard is that you have to be the best team/athlete in the world (ie world cup winners ) then the likelyhood of the All Whites ever winning a Halberg award is basically nil. They will never be world champions.

An interesting question then arises. Is the All Whites 26th world cup ranking in world football a better achievement than what the All Blacks,Kiwi's,Silver ferns etc achived during the year ? Given the number of teams that play football ( soccer ) around the world ,and there must be hundreds, this would seem quite an achievement as compared to the other achivements of teams nominated in the Halbergs. Rugby only has about six serious contenders (world cup winning countries are even less, four in total ). There are only three serious contenders in rugby league and really only two in netball. The same could be said for a lot of other sports that Kiwi's compete in.

Is winning a competition with only a handfull of serious competitors really a Halberg winning achievement compared to being unbeaten and coming 26th in a "real world cup ". I do'nt think so.

We arent in the worlds top 50 internationl football teams, dunno where you got 26th from

There were no play offs for the teams that didnt make the World Cup knock out stage

The All Whites may win a future world cup, i wouldn't bet on it myself, but small nations like Uruguay & Hungary have won it in the past, you never know.

We are the #1 ranked rugby nation according to the IRB, but if we do not have a world champion/world record holder etc, then perhaps we dont just hand out the awards in a particular year if there are no worthy nominees.

As ive already said on the thread, we have can the fluffy, text in "viewers choice" awards, best moments whatever, but do it in another forum.

You can see why Australia is such a great sporting nation, they have a winning mentality, whereas NZ traditionally "tries to compete" & "are underdogs" etc

[craic]

I was in an obscure bazaar in some foreign land among people who were struggling to make their next crust when some trader who could manage afew words of English. He asked where we were from and when we told him, he lit up like a candle. " Ah! New Zealand, very good in football" He immediatly identified with an underdog who could hold the mighty Italy to a draw in the World Cup.He had watched every match we played. I wonder how many Silver Ferns or All Black matches are watched by the teeming millions out there.

[JBmurc]

Can't believe the kiwis or benji didn't win anything- World cup champs-- Four Nations champs and even 3 of are players were NRL champs but no the all whites
clean-up because they did so much better than past years now personal I think the AW deserved to win something but clean-up like the Kiwis actually did isn't right

[barney]

We arent in the worlds top 50 internationl football teams, dunno where you got 26th from

There were no play offs for the teams that didnt make the World Cup knock out stage

The All Whites may win a future world cup, i wouldn't bet on it myself, but small nations like Uruguay & Hungary have won it in the past, you never know.

We are the #1 ranked rugby nation according to the IRB, but if we do not have a world champion/world record holder etc, then perhaps we dont just hand out the awards in a particular year if there are no worthy nominees.

As ive already said on the thread, we have can the fluffy, text in "viewers choice" awards, best moments whatever, but do it in another forum.

You can see why Australia is such a great sporting nation, they have a winning mentality, whereas NZ traditionally "tries to compete" & "are underdogs" etc

Yes the All Blacks are ranked number one, but how difficult is that to achieve? Last year they beat three teams of any note, Australia, South Africa, and England. (Scotland,Ireland, and Whales are perenial also rans).

I suppose Australia is a great sporting nation. They are after all world netball champs ( but then there is always a 50/50 chance that it will be them or NZ). Maybe one day they will also be Rugby League world champs again or rugby union world champs ( regretfully that could be sooner than we would like ).They may also one day hold the ashes again, although given their recent thrashing it may not be soon. I think they may soon be saying goodbye to the one day cricket world cup as well.
As for the Socceroos at the world cup, I wo'nt even go there.

[minimoke]

Is winning a competition with only a handfull of serious competitors really a Halberg winning achievement compared to being unbeaten and coming 26th in a "real world cup ". I do'nt think so.
And there in lies part of the problem. Are we now a nation content to be "unbeaten". Clearly if this is the threshold we don't necessarily have to recognize "winners". Being unbeaten means anyone go through a low level round would be up for nomination. We could be saying in a few weeks that the Black Caps went through the first part of round one unbeaten. What about Olympic Athletes who get through a heat unbeaten (or at least good enough to get to the next round). Do we nominate them because they didn't loose on a world stage.

The All Whites got through stage won unbeaten - but did not win anything. At that level it is a great feat - however they did not do well enough to get to a next round where they might have been beaten. Their performance was enough to ensure they did not get a tag of "loser".

I would prefer we strived for and recognised "winners". Recognizing the "unbeaten", no matter the code, simply recognizes effort but not succees.

[shasta]

Can't believe the kiwis or benji didn't win anything- World cup champs-- Four Nations champs and even 3 of are players were NRL champs but no the all whites
clean-up because they did so much better than past years now personal I think the AW deserved to win something but clean-up like the Kiwis actually did isn't right

Because the Four Nations is a nothing tournament designed purely to try to put International league back on the calendar.

The league world cup wasnt last year, so does not qualify & benji whilst a class act, didnt lead Wests to the premiership thus he won nothing & is an individual within a team sport.

Then again Ritchie McCaw didnt lead anything to a win either

[buns]

Always funny this topic..

I support a lot of American sports, and over the best player is recognised as the MVP. This prize usually goes to the best player on one of the top 3 teams in the league. When most of the time there are some players in loosing teams who mean everything to that team, so are usually a lot more ‘valuable’ than a great player in a leading team.

American sports don’t really feature on the world stage, so it’s hard to give the prizes to teams who overachieve rapidly like the all whites. But, within the American leagues there are tons of good stories like this that are left as just that, a ‘story’ and only get props if they continue on and become a winning franchise.

I didn’t see the awards, but do they strictly define how they measure these players/teams? I’m guessing no, and they have awarded the thing to the All Whites on a totally different definition to everyone else.

[shasta]

Always funny this topic..

I support a lot of American sports, and over the best player is recognised as the MVP. This prize usually goes to the best player on one of the top 3 teams in the league. When most of the time there are some players in loosing teams who mean everything to that team, so are usually a lot more ‘valuable’ than a great player in a leading team.

American sports don’t really feature on the world stage, so it’s hard to give the prizes to teams who overachieve rapidly like the all whites. But, within the American leagues there are tons of good stories like this that are left as just that, a ‘story’ and only get props if they continue on and become a winning franchise.

I didn’t see the awards, but do they strictly define how they measure these players/teams? I’m guessing no, and they have awarded the thing to the All Whites on a totally different definition to everyone else.

From the "only in America" files...

Where else is a domestic league referred to as the world champions - ie baseball, ice hockey, basketball?

[minimoke]

I didn’t see the awards, but do they strictly define how they measure these players/teams? I’m guessing no, and they have awarded the thing to the All Whites on a totally different definition to everyone else.
The Halbersgs are recognized as the premier sporting award. The Halbergs recognize sporting excellence and outstanding achievement. Originally they were there to recognise whose personal performances, or example, has had the most beneficial effect on the advancement of sport in the country". Take from that what you will. If you want a bit of a guide look at previous winners:
2009: Valerie Vill - she was unbeaten in all competitions.
2008 Valerie Vili - she won every international competition she entered
2007 - Valerie Vili. Won her championships and achieved word best record
2006 - Mahe Drysdale Won world title and world speed record.
2005 - Michael Campbell. Ranked 80th in world won US Open
2004 - Sarah Ulmer. Gold medal winner and broke speed records.
2003 - Silver Ferns. Won world champs against Australia
2002. Tall Blacks. Ended up 4th in world Champs after beating higher ranked teams.
2001. Evers Swindells. Won Silver in world pairs and quads champs
2000. Rob Wadell - rowing

The recurring theme is not participating or trying. It's not drawing in medium levels. Its "Winning" and winning at the highest levels. None of these award winners got there by "drawing" in any of their competitions. They beat the competition - perhaps not for the every top spot - but they did win along the way.

[winner69]

That guy Jossi Wells should have won - the best freeskier in the world ... world titles and all that

Soon to be an Olympic Event .... maybe he has to win Olympic Gold to be given a chance to become a Halberg winner eh

[ratkin]

All whites performance was the best result by any New Zealand team for many years.

Like it or not Rugby netball and hockey are minor sports played seriously in very few countries indeed.
Football on the other hand is a truly global game. Some great teams didnt even make it to the finals ,
just to be there at all was a big achievement , to be the only unbeaten team once there was absolutly massive.
Most New Zealanders dont even realise what an achievement that was . Much tougher than the all blacks winning
the rugby world cup for example

[barney]

The Halbersgs are recognized as the premier sporting award. The Halbergs recognize sporting excellence and outstanding achievement. Originally they were there to recognise whose personal performances, or example, has had the most beneficial effect on the advancement of sport in the country". Take from that what you will. If you want a bit of a guide look at previous winners:
2009: Valerie Vill - she was unbeaten in all competitions.
2008 Valerie Vili - she won every international competition she entered
2007 - Valerie Vili. Won her championships and achieved word best record
2006 - Mahe Drysdale Won world title and world speed record.
2005 - Michael Campbell. Ranked 80th in world won US Open
2004 - Sarah Ulmer. Gold medal winner and broke speed records.
2003 - Silver Ferns. Won world champs against Australia
2002. Tall Blacks. Ended up 4th in world Champs after beating higher ranked teams.
2001. Evers Swindells. Won Silver in world pairs and quads champs
2000. Rob Wadell - rowing

The recurring theme is not participating or trying. It's not drawing in medium levels. Its "Winning" and winning at the highest levels. None of these award winners got there by "drawing" in any of their competitions. They beat the competition - perhaps not for the every top spot - but they did win along the way.

Looking back it's an interesting list and probably as many arguments for as against.

There certainly seems to be a bias towards what might be deemed "popular" sports ,or those that get a lot of media coverage, as opposed to more minor sports.
In 2001 and 2002 teams received a Halberg award for being 2nd and 4th.Or to put it another way, they won an award despite being beaten. Yet I'm sure there would have been other sports people or teams in those years who came first in a competition but because they were not participating in more popular sporting code were not Halberg winners. Instead the award went to a pair who were first losers and a team that finished behind three others. I do'nt recall a public outcry.
As for the Silver Ferns winning, how do they get an award for basically beating one other team, Australia.

Wynton Rufer was one of the worlds best footballers for years yet never won a Helberg. I wonder why ?

[minimoke]

All whites performance was the best result by any New Zealand team for many years.

C'mon. How tough was the competition? They lost to Fiji (now ranked 151 out of 203) but beat New Caledonia (153 ranked ) and Vanuatu (163) as well as Bahrain (93). Even South Africa (who was a few below NZ) managed to pop in an extra goal. So the halbergs are saying if you can beat average to below average teams you are an exceptional achiever. The world cup finals sorted the men from the boys

[skeet]

C'mon. How tough was the competition? They lost to Fiji (now ranked 151 out of 203) but beat New Caledonia (153 ranked ) and Vanuatu (163) as well as Bahrain (93). Even South Africa (who was a few below NZ) managed to pop in an extra goal. So the halbergs are saying if you can beat average to below average teams you are an exceptional achiever. The world cup finals sorted the men from the boys

You seem to have forgotten they remained the only unbeaten team at the WC and the drew with the world champions.

[minimoke]

You seem to have forgotten they remained the only unbeaten team at the WC and the drew with the world champions.
C'mon - to claim they won against the world champs is pushing it. Do you seriously think they could have created a draw in 2006. What actually happened was that they drew with nominal world champs but in reality the ex-world champs. Italy couldn't win a game in their round and didn't make it to the final 16 - thats how tough the "world champ" competiton was.

[skeet]

C'mon - to claim they won against the world champs is pushing it.

I didnt, it was a draw.

[brettdale]

All whites deserved this, football is by far above anything else, to draw with italy at the world cup is bigger than winning any freakin netball or rugby test.

[shasta]

All whites deserved this, football is by far above anything else, to draw with italy at the world cup is bigger than winning any freakin netball or rugby test.

To be fair the current Italian side is quite old & well past its prime, i mean they finished below us in the pool!

[Kees]

To be fair the current Italian side is quite old & well past its prime, i mean they finished below us in the pool!

what's fair about that, Itie"s player pool is probably a 1000% larger than nz's and they picked their best player's
give credit where credit is due.,

Bloody rugby going to cost more on the rates this year again they can't even promote the game within a budget have to rely on the nz tax and rate payers to compete in a game that is slowly killing itself with self pitty.

[minimoke]

[B]
Bloody rugby going to cost more on the rates this year again they can't even promote the game within a budget have to rely on the nz tax and rate payers to compete in a game that is slowly killing itself with self pitty.
Jeez - don't get me started on that. Our useless council is putting up rates to subsidize a stadium whose sole purpose is to host rugby events at times of night crowds don't want to go to because they sooner stay home warm and dry and watch it on Sky. If rugby fans want a stadium to freeze in let them pay the full costs. If Sky want events to suit their broadcast schedules let them pay - not the poor old rate payer.

As for dicking the school calender around for a few games which are played on Saturdays or Sundays its clear we place rugby above education - its no wonder we are content with mediocrity.

[barney]

Jeez - don't get me started on that. Our useless council is putting up rates to subsidize a stadium whose sole purpose is to host rugby events at times of night crowds don't want to go to because they sooner stay home warm and dry and watch it on Sky. If rugby fans want a stadium to freeze in let them pay the full costs. If Sky want events to suit their broadcast schedules let them pay - not the poor old rate payer.

As for dicking the school calender around for a few games which are played on Saturdays or Sundays its clear we place rugby above education - its no wonder we are content with mediocrity.

Dead right. A so called profesional sport like rugby ( and it's not the only one ) can pay it's players, management, and staff six figure salaries but expects the good old rate payer and tax payer to pay for their sporting facilities. On top of that a lot of rate payers ca'nt afford to take their families to top games, even if they could get a ticket.

[Kees]

whow that got it going.
and what can be done about it , nothing we just allow these trough feeders to do as they please and keep paying for their sausage rolls
and keep feeding us the bull::t on how great they are bloody hell if you have played one game in black and die sixty years later its big news for the plebs, While the country (according to the rfu and media) has got to go on its knees to give thanks for a rugby player.

Don't get me wrong love a good game of rugby haven't seen one for years all full of PC crap these days and not worth going outside for.
except down to the local park to see the real game.