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View Full Version : Buying vs Selling.



Phaedrus
27-07-2004, 11:45 AM
Viewed objectively, these two actions should be equal, opposite and "value neutral" - but we all know that this is not so.

Buying is a very positive action, one accompanied by high expectations, feelings of optimism and hope. Buying solves the problem of what to do with a spare sum of money - many people are decidedly uncomfortable holding cash and are only happy when fully invested. Buying opens the possibilities of great things. Buying feels good, that's why we like to do it. When we buy a new stock we are quite objective - we have no vested interest in it.

Selling is very different. When we come to sell we are no longer objective - we have financial and emotional ties to the stocks we hold. The point at which we sell defines exactly how much we made or lost on the transaction. Selling is when we are forced to face the outcome of a historical decision we made when in a particularly positive frame of mind. Selling closes out the possibility that you might make a bit more, or that you may, yet, get your money back. The mind games are over and we must face the reality of the outcome of our original decision. If we are selling at a loss, this is a painful experience. Even selling at a profit is uncomfortable. Invariably, you will always have been able to sell earlier (or later) for a higher price. Win, lose or draw, selling is a time of resignation, acceptance, capitulation. You take a loss, or you break even after holding for a time or you accept that this is as much as you are going to get from this stock. Selling does not feel good - certainly not as good as buying. No wonder people put it off. In extreme cases, they may resolve never to sell. People can go to astonishing lengths to avoid selling. I read of a disgruntled shareholder at the CAH special meeting last week saying that he was happy to see the share price revive to the amount he paid 19 years ago. Is this patience, stupidity, or irrational optimism? I believe it is simply an extreme case of aversion to selling at a loss - the protection of a fragile ego.
There are any number of books giving endless advice on the selection of stocks and buying - far fewer on selling. Brokers are unbelievably reluctant to use the Sell word - they flag stocks as "Underweight", "Hold", "Market Performer" etc - all euphemisms for the rude four letter word "Sell". Note the frequency and pride with which people post their "buy" decisions on ShareTrader. Selling seems to be less popular, perhaps needing to be explained away by "I needed the money". Stock "Buy" recommendations outnumber "Sell" recommendations and discussion. Selling can even be seen as "disloyalty" to a company that "has been good to you". Selling creates the problem "What would I do with the money?"
The thing is, selling requires a total reversal of our thinking. A mental U-turn. Reversing an opinion is even harder if we have publicly and zealously promoted the stock as a good investment. Some find this impossible.
For nineteen long years, that CAH holder has been psychologically incapable of reversing his initial buy decision. He would rather sustain some hope of a future profit than accept the reality of his poor investment. He has consoled himself with dividends for 2 decades and is in profit - will he now sell this poorly performing stock? I think not.
We are indeed our own worst enemies.



This will be my last post for a while. I am going on holiday, returning in October.

Capitalist
27-07-2004, 12:00 PM
Superb Phaedrus. One to be printed out and pinned on a few fridges!

One has to be able, psychologically, to take a loss. The alternative can have devastating consequences, and has led to mental collapse in a few dealers I have known over the years.

Enjoy your holiday too :).

Halebop
27-07-2004, 01:14 PM
Have a great holiday P.

One needs to be brave enough to take their profits too. I've kicked myself for selling out of numerous things way too early but I've avoided a lot of setbacks too. Swings and roundabouts.

whatsup
27-07-2004, 01:38 PM
Phaedrus- you can break it down to this: BUYING a share is done for 1 reason >that its price will go up -providing a dividend stream etc; SELLING a share is done for lots(101) of reasons > to buy a car,appliances ,pay taxes,take a trip , buy a bigger (or your first) house ,to crystalise a investment loss!

Lawso
27-07-2004, 02:32 PM
Have a good one, Phaedrus. ST won't be the same without you

Risk
27-07-2004, 03:26 PM
have a good break Phaedrus.
did you sell out your holdings, or will you be keeping an eye on the markets while away?

Re: buying and selling
I find selling a more positive action than buying. Closing a position means that particular capital is no longer at risk. I guess thats why is suits my psychology as a trader to focus on short term trades. I am also not afraid to sit on the cash if overall market conditions are not the best, although there are always plenty of individual buying opportunities.
(I am currently in SELL mode, and holding about 45% cash...)

Cooper
27-07-2004, 03:41 PM
I won't pretend I am an expert but if anyone is interested then the writings of Kahnneman and Tversky (one is an economist, the other a Psychologist) have forced me to look at how I view the buying and selling of stocks... the upshot is we value losses and gains differently (ie a loss is not the same as a gain of equal monetary value), that we try to avoid feeling regret (therefore you might buy that share you've been hearing everybody talk about just so you don't feel you've missed the boat... ie regret), and that we have diminishing value appreciation... if someone gives me a gift of $2000 then I would appreciate it better if someone had given me 4 gifts of $500, even though logically they are the same...
Interesting reading. Bon Voyage Phaedrus.

duncan macgregor
27-07-2004, 04:07 PM
GOOD POST pheadrus, The people that win are the people that keep emotion completely seperate from buying or selling. The more emotion gets Involved, the more Inclined you are to lose. The ability to understand you will continue to make mistakes, and cover your butt, to stop a loss Is more Important than knowing when to jump off the bus with a winner. We all do the homework In our own way to buy a share, which In the macdunk record has a one chance In five of being a clanger, but how much time gets spent on an exit strategy?. When I buy a share I know exactly If It falls to a figure previousely worked out Its gone goodbye who cares. Dont really give a damn good bye. When I buy It Is on a trial run with a half stake Invested, bought at the very bottom before It appears on the TA screen, and the second half when It does. Emotion falling In love Is for Idiots In this game. Look for the trend what Is the best company In that trend?, buy the first ticket, 5pc stop loss buy the other half when you know Its right, nothing complicated about that. cheers Macdunk

k1w1
27-07-2004, 05:03 PM
But whose gonna' protect the town while your gone?

Have a good one, Sheriff Phaedrus.

Two months holiday ... son of a gun must be doing something right.

whatsup
27-07-2004, 05:10 PM
k1w1 > is a "son of a gun" a pistol?

Futurz
27-07-2004, 05:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by whatsup

k1w1 > is a "son of a gun" a pistol?


It is a figure of speach...

'Son of a Gun'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Three centuries ago the expression described the son of a Gunner in a rather uncharitable way.

In olden times, the 'train of artillery' always included camp followers, among them 'ladies of easy virtue' with whom Gunners, being human, were apt to form unblessed liaisons. There being neither pill nor condom in those days bad luck or carelessness inevitably 'brought forth illegitimate issue', as the more polite historians say.

Now jealous members of the Infantry and Cavalry who did not enjoy the same 'home comforts', and as we know had a poor opinion of our ancient brethren in any case, would call the misbegotten infant a 'son of a gun', implying that not only was it a bastard of low estate but that its father was one also.

Although the original significance of the expression has long since faded we still use it; as a soldier in Kiwi fashion may address his friend as 'You old bastard', so may he substitute 'You old son of a gun' provided he says it with a smile!

WL Ruffell

k1w1
27-07-2004, 05:52 PM
Bullseye, futurz, bullseye.

I meant it in a friendly admiring Kiwi way.:)

easy money
27-07-2004, 08:38 PM
dear k1w1....interesting user name you have..it is the same name that Mr tindall has for one of his companies developing the DVI technology..is there any connection ?

Jay
27-07-2004, 08:52 PM
Yes another good post Phaedrus. Thank you.
Nearly everywhere including this site you hardly ever hear "I'm selling... now" or "I have sold..." or "sell now"
As whatsup says there can be numerous reasons for selling.

Have good break, you deserve it.
I have to wait a couple more months for my two week holiday. :)

whiteheron
27-07-2004, 09:44 PM
An excellent post Phaedrus

I have been trading for just over two years now and feel i have a pretty good handle on the "buy" side , but i am only now really getting to grips with the "sell" side of things

Overcoming the psychological side of things initially posed challenges on both sides of transactions , however , i am happy to report that i have been able to completely eliminate the emotional factor when buying and to almost eliminate it when selling (the giving up of a share that has treated you well can be hard to do ---- i have kept my wife of 39 years if you get the drift ---and she has kept me which no doubt has also been a challenge) but i now force myself to look at each trade in a completely objective manner and to move on to new pastures where warranted

All the best for your break Phaedrus

foodee
27-07-2004, 10:30 PM
Phaedrus
As usual another gem.
Have a good break and don't hold back. Eat the best food (something I do know) and consume the best beverages.
Remember money is no good for anything except spending!

cheers