Black Monday

[skid]

You are right ... this was clearly a black Tuesday for our environment independent from one's view on human made global warming. But don't forget - it was a minority of US voters who decided that this must be the right way to go. They call this democracy ... and I am sure the Trump fanboys are happy that we all will be paying for it.

and even those who voted for Trump didnt necessarily buy in to this (although a large percentage are most likely in the ''me first'' category.

meanwhile if you really want to see the dark side..have a look at this (years of research data deleted by Trump admin)
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...g-my-citations

[xafalcon]

Global warming or climate change, whatever it's currently being called, is simply the scientists version of what Y2K was to the computer industry. A pure and simple way of ensuring the funding gravy train continues to flow. Governments are happy to go along with it, as it provides a "reason" for greater control of our everyday lives, ability to tax etc

I applaud Trump for seeing through the faux science that is purported to establish a tenuous link between anything humans are even capable doing and the earth climate. I acknowledge this may be crediting The Don with more intelligence than is justified. But I support his course of action, and hope that NZ will abandon the pointless wastage of time and money trying to fix something that isn't broken

DYOR on the climate change hypotheses and you will quickly see over the 4,500,000,000 year history of the planet

- zero correlation between CO2 levels and earth temperature
- zero correlation between methane levels and earth temperature
- zero correlation between oxygen levels and earth temperature

eg. CO2 levels have risen from 180ppm to 280ppm and this is described at catastrophic. But CO2 levels were as high as 7000ppm in earth history and the world did not end - it flourished

Ice ages have happened when CO2 levels rose, interglacial periods have happened when CO2 levels fall. Glaciers retreat, glaciers grow. The arctic has a permanent icecap, then it doesn't. North even becomes south when the earths magnetic field reverses for no particular reason

CO2 from all this coal and oil being burnt came from where? It came from plants that photosynthetically converted CO2 from the atmosphere (along with H2O) into biomass which was laid down over millennia and slowly transformed into the hydrocarbons we extract today. So we are simply very very slowly returning to the atmosphere what was originally present.......

[Bobdn]

Yes and sea levels haven't risen since 1968.

Anyway, wow can't believe the last two days. It's been a bonanza. Everything is green, green green (except Spark).

[Jantar]

....
- zero correlation between CO2 levels and earth temperature
........

Not true at all. there is a very good correlation between changes in CO2 and changes in temperature, with temperature changes leading CO2 changes by around 800 years.
CO2 levels started increasing around 130 years ago, and around 930 years ago the earth's temperature was rising leading to the MWP. The correlation is maintained.

[allfromacell]

CO2 from all this coal and oil being burnt came from where? It came from plants that photosynthetically converted CO2 from the atmosphere (along with H2O) into biomass which was laid down over millennia and slowly transformed into the hydrocarbons we extract today. So we are simply very very slowly returning to the atmosphere what was originally present.......

No it's not very very slowly. The earth's climate does indeed change over extended periods of time, but what makes our situation different is it's happening at a snap-neck speed.

This is probably a debate for another thread.

[mfd]

Global warming or climate change, whatever it's currently being called, is simply the scientists version of what Y2K was to the computer industry. A pure and simple way of ensuring the funding gravy train continues to flow. Governments are happy to go along with it, as it provides a "reason" for greater control of our everyday lives, ability to tax etc

Fantastic example comparing climate change to Y2K. Y2k could have been disastrous but for the enormous amount of work put in to preparing systems all over the world, and climate change will be a disaster if we don't put in the hard work. Closing your eyes and hoping they go away would be a poor answer to both. Another valid comparison, if sacrifices are made now and climate change does not eventuate, ignorant folk will come out of the woodwork and claim it was wasted effort when in fact a potential catastrophe has been averted.

[Biscuit]

...... So we are simply very very slowly returning to the atmosphere what was originally present.......

And what was "originally present"?

[axe]

Yes Jantar you make a good point that there is correlation with CO2 and temperatures.
However correlation does not equal causation.

There is no reliable scientific data that I have been able to find that can prove the causation of rising c02 and temperatures.
If you have seen any please send me a link and I would love to read it.

Not true at all. there is a very good correlation between changes in CO2 and changes in temperature, with temperature changes leading CO2 changes by around 800 years.
CO2 levels started increasing around 130 years ago, and around 930 years ago the earth's temperature was rising leading to the MWP. The correlation is maintained.

[Jantar]

Yes Jantar you make a good point that there is correlation with CO2 and temperatures.
However correlation does not equal causation.

There is no reliable scientific data that I have been able to find that can prove the causation of rising c02 and temperatures.
If you have seen any please send me a link and I would love to read it.

yes, I have read a paper on it many years ago. Not sure that I can find it now. But basically CO2 solubility in water decreases with increasing temperatures, so as the oceans warm, they emit more CO2. Those same oceans are huge heat sink with around 800 year lag from the drivers. This lag also means that the oceanic effect is moderated to a large extent, so the effect is small and delayed.

[bull....]

The revolution has started

So im thinking first we had stock brokerage firms in the US slash stock trade commissions by up to 50% now we have the biggest active fund manager in the world cutting fees and slashing active manager jobs,

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bl...-idUSKBN16Z2X9

all this following on from perhaps the greatest stock picker of them all Warren buffet suggesting low cost ETF is the way to go now.

Golly gosh those over the top fees we pay here in NZ for brokerage and our hedge fund fees we pay fund managers make this industry in NZ ripe for disruption. Don't fret Not to long to wait technology is making accessing funds anywhere in the world a reality in the not to distant future.

Also for all those folk who are interested in Marijuana investing new ETFS are on the way.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the...eek-2017-03-28

This is of interest to me as a emerging industry with huge potential.