TOP Party one to watch in this election

[justakiwi]

I didn't say anyone should vote for TOP - that was not the point I was making. My comments about NZ as a whole (and NZ politics) needing to do things differently, applies to any minor party now or in the future, that is thinking outside the square and coming at it, from a fresh, and different perspective.

Do you honestly think that this perpetual back and forth between National and Labour, and their respective coalitions, is still working for NZ????

Really?

'we need to think and do things differently.'

-------

Who is 'we'? I think for myself and so do all the people who voted in the poll. 'We' don't need to go for TOP or try a new party. And I don't think it's awesome that the Greens and Te Pati Maori are in Parliament, I think it is terrible that these radicals are in a position where they can drag New Zealand into being even more of a socialistic and divided hell-hole than it has become over 6 years of Labour.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I didn't say anyone should vote for TOP - that was not the point I was making. My comments about NZ as a whole (and NZ politics) needing to do things differently, applies to any minor party now or in the future, that is thinking outside the square and coming at it, from a fresh, and different perspective.

Do you honestly think that this perpetual back and forth between National and Labour, and their respective coalitions, is still working for NZ????

Really?

So TOP will run the country & provide all the answers? Good luck with that. How are they going to go ‘from 0 to 100’ so to speak? The example of the Greens was provided earlier….they are over the threshold consistently but aren’t one of the major players, and can only be relevant if they go into coalition. It will be the same for TOP.
I prefer to live in reality.

[iceman]

I didn't say anyone should vote for TOP - that was not the point I was making. My comments about NZ as a whole (and NZ politics) needing to do things differently, applies to any minor party now or in the future, that is thinking outside the square and coming at it, from a fresh, and different perspective.

Do you honestly think that this perpetual back and forth between National and Labour, and their respective coalitions, is still working for NZ????

Really?

I don't think any right thinking person thinks it's working. So what is the solution ? First of all, 3 years terms are stupid. They should be minimum 4 years and more likely 5 years. That way a Government can actually get on with implementing their policies immediately after elections and hope they start making a difference before the next election. 3 years is pathetic. 1st year new Government is learning, 2nd year they try to implement the easy stuff, 3rd year they start making undeliverable election promises.

Second, I think our MMP is a complete failure and ensures we stay at the bottom of the heap like we are and have been for some time.

Third. I think the last 3 years have taught us that it is dangerous to vote in a majority Government without restrictions, when they can just ignore all their election promises and implement stuff they have never mentioned before the election. Switzerland with their voting on issues system, at least give some direct democracy and maybe that is something we need to look at to avoid a repeat of the last 3 years of an anti-Democracy Government.

[Logen Ninefingers]

I don't think any right thinking person thinks it's working. So what is the solution ? First of all, 3 years terms are stupid. They should be minimum 4 years and more likely 5 years. That way a Government can actually get on with implementing their policies immediately after elections and hope they start making a difference before the next election. 3 years is pathetic. 1st year new Government is learning, 2nd year they try to implement the easy stuff, 3rd year they start making undeliverable election promises.

Second, I think our MMP is a complete failure and ensures we stay at the bottom of the heap like we are and have been for some time.

Third. I think the last 3 years have taught us that it is dangerous to vote in a majority Government without restrictions, when they can just ignore all their election promises and implement stuff they have never mentioned before the election. Switzerland with their voting on issues system, at least give some direct democracy and maybe that is something we need to look at to avoid a repeat of the last 3 years of an anti-Democracy Government.

All good points. The populace lost it’s collective mind in 2020. We are now dealing with the mess.

[Daytr]

You are missing the point Black Peter is making. For things to change, we need to think and do things differently. As he said, it took time for the Greens (and ACT for that matter) to gain supporters and eventually secure a place of influence in NZ politics. If all the greenies had just thrown in the towel on the premise that voting for the Greens was a wasted vote - the party would not be where it is now. That line of thinking has the potential to ensure NZ never gets anything different or better. It is time to stop with the boring strategic “vote for the party that will do the least damage” mantra. As I have repeatedly said, it does not sit well with me personally and I am feeling less and less inclined to compromise my own philosophies and values purely to vote a party out. It is nothing more than “settling” - and it achieves nothing over the long term. We just rinse and repeat ad infinitum. You may be happy to support that frustrating cycle of ineffective government, but I am not.

Black Peter’s posts today, have been thought provoking for me, so thanks BP.

Again well said & agree.

[Getty]

This Top outfit must have a big advertising budget.

They are everywhere, including on the bottom right hand side of the Share Trader pages!

[BlackPeter]

The public service is 'strained' only in the sense that Labour has loaded it up with bureaucrats and communications staff and middle managers while we are still short of thousands of doctors and nurses. If thumb twiddlers have been hired to make-work positions then, I'm sorry, they have to go. Call that 'austerity' if you like but we won't become a prosperous nation by loading up on public servants.

I agree with you that Labour hired a lot of quite useless policy analysts and communication staff. They didn't even help Labour to stay in power (well, here is hoping). I was talking about the health sector - and they are absolutely at breaking point, look into any emergency department or even GP practise around the country, and I was talking about education going down the drain. If you want to see other services at breaking point - start to count the potholes on our roads ;

Admittedly - with education it is more a politcial issue. National underfunded them big time (and I used to sit during that time in a board of trustees - I know what I am saying) and Labour threw money at teachers to make their union buddies happy and added a lot of additinal tasks which don't improve our childrens education - but they didn't do anything to make the teaching job easier. None of them did help to improve our education standards - actually, Laobur further reduced them.

So, yes, we agree that Labour did over the last year a lot of wasteful and useless spending, but so did National before (read the "billion dollar bonfire" I was referring to). Does not mean that we can now afford to just underfund education, health and other frontline services (as ACT seems to plan) and expect things will get better. We do have thanks to Labour and National a pretty run down public system, and we need to invest into our future if we want to have a future worthwhile looking forward to.

[BlackPeter]

I don't think any right thinking person thinks it's working. So what is the solution ? First of all, 3 years terms are stupid. They should be minimum 4 years and more likely 5 years. That way a Government can actually get on with implementing their policies immediately after elections and hope they start making a difference before the next election. 3 years is pathetic. 1st year new Government is learning, 2nd year they try to implement the easy stuff, 3rd year they start making undeliverable election promises.

Second, I think our MMP is a complete failure and ensures we stay at the bottom of the heap like we are and have been for some time.

Third. I think the last 3 years have taught us that it is dangerous to vote in a majority Government without restrictions, when they can just ignore all their election promises and implement stuff they have never mentioned before the election. Switzerland with their voting on issues system, at least give some direct democracy and maybe that is something we need to look at to avoid a repeat of the last 3 years of an anti-Democracy Government.

Just a couple of observations:

Germany is running MMP since something like 1948 (actually - NZ adapted it from them), and despite some dawbacks I think that MMP did help them quite well to avoid the politcial catastrophies the US (with the wannebe dictator Trump) or the UK (with the clown and liar Boris Johnson) had in recent times. MMP clearly did help Germany to stay politically on the top of the heap, so - what is wrong with us?

I agree that a 3 years term is short time, note however that all countries with longer election periods (I am aware of) have some "interim elections" (like another house, regional elections or senate / house) which help the party in power to see whether the people like what they do. No issue with me to extend the NZ term to 4 years, but I think in that case we would need as well some political interim elections (which we currently don't have - local government does not count - no split along party lines).

Ah yes - and referring to your last point - NZ clearly needs a constitution limiting the currently unchecked powers of parliament ... and a second house might help as well to balance this power as well as allow a longer election term (see above).

[Azz]

Germany is running MMP since something like 1948 (actually - NZ adapted it from them), and despite some dawbacks I think that MMP did help them quite well to avoid the politcial catastrophies the US (with the wannebe dictator Trump) or the UK (with the clown and liar Boris Johnson) had in recent times. MMP clearly did help Germany to stay politically on the top of the heap, so - what is wrong with us?

What absolute ignorance. The US political system is considerably older than Germany's, and helped build the most prosperous nation on Earth. You don't like Trump so therefore Germany's political system is better? That is completely ridiculous.

[Logen Ninefingers]

In Germany under MMP, the people vote and then the negotiations start. Nobody is ruled in or out prior to the election.

In New Zealand under MMP, prior to the election the media hound the political parties to declare who they will and will not work with.