TOP Party one to watch in this election

[mike2020]

Fair comments there JK and 3% would be a better number. I just think if it is as close an election as it is looking we would all be better off with a clear winner.

I am anti labor, very. I have family in labor in Wellington, how that person has changed. From a caring individual to a smug bully.

I would like to say, this is an election thread, it's ok in my opinion to have an opinion, not like the OCA thread which was ruined there for a while.

Hit me

[justakiwi]

Maybe. Or maybe it is just how we have been indoctrinated to think over the years. Maybe it's actually not true. Just a thought.

Fair comments there JK and 3% would be a better number. I just think if it is as close an election as it is looking we would all be better off with a clear winner.

I am anti labor, very. I have family in labor in Wellington, how that person has changed. From a caring individual to a smug bully.

I would like to say, this is an election thread, it's ok in my opinion to have an opinion, not like the OCA thread which was ruined there for a while.

Hit me

[BlackPeter]

Lols. IF they make it in, with their one vote, what a difference they can and will make. Another wasted vote. I see multiple placards around town for the NZ party, loyal? Grief, I am so tempted to knock on the door and ask if they know the harm their wasted vote might cause. Pick a side.

You seem to be easily amused, but hey, this is better then the troll invasion we used to have here just a couple of days before :

Look - if I know that crashing the car on the left side of the road is bad and that crashing it on the right side of the road is bad as well, I don't need to do either. There is always a better choice - like e.g. just staying on the road and getting forward instead. Same story with political camps. Neither left/green nor right/neo-liberal did in the last handful of decades improve our situation as a country. No need to reward them for their failings. One side always underinvests in our future and the other side wasted the money instead of using it for our good.

The wasted vote is only from the people who vote for what they see as the smaller evil - the result is that whatever we get will be evil. If that's what you are going for - you are welcome - go and waste your vote, but others might have higher ambitions.

No need to reward the politicians from both left and right who failed us before - again and again. They have no plan to improve our lot this time. Left wants to waste money and Right wants to keep underfunding already broken systems. Both does not work. And yes, as untamed said - it takes time to grow a new party, but others did it before and I am sure at some stage we will have as well a strong liberal voice back in parliament.

... ah yes - and don't forget - if Raf Manji makes it into parliament on the electoral vote, he is likely to bring at least 1 or 2 others with him (based on the recent poll). That's not bad. Look how far Seymur managed to come, and he was initially really the only ACT MP.

[mike2020]

Fair call. Appreciate your perspectives. We do seem to vote for change, we have been doing it as far back as I can remember which is the 70s and not much has changed, just a lower standard of almost everything. I feel we are on a precipice at the moment and the standards Labor uphold when in opposition seem to be absent when in power. The list of wrongdoings is too long.

[justakiwi]

We vote for a change of party from National to Labour (and back again), but we have never voted for a significant change, away from the two party system we have been used to for decades. I get that there is justification for the current angst towards Labour, but people have short memories. National has failed us too, and will again no doubt.

The "precipice" is not simply the fear of Labour getting back in. It is the fear that NZ is doomed to continuing the ineffective Labour/National cycle, forever.

Fair call. Appreciate your perspectives. We do seem to vote for change, we have been doing it as far back as I can remember which is the 70s and not much has changed, just a lower standard of almost everything. I feel we are on a precipice at the moment and the standards Labor uphold when in opposition seem to be absent when in power. The list of wrongdoings is too long.

[Bjauck]

Fair call. Appreciate your perspectives. We do seem to vote for change, we have been doing it as far back as I can remember which is the 70s and not much has changed, just a lower standard of almost everything. I feel we are on a precipice at the moment and the standards Labor uphold when in opposition seem to be absent when in power. The list of wrongdoings is too long.

NZ has voted for change in the past. We are among the oldest democracies (one adult; one vote.) We were among the first to vote to introduce compulsory public education and a raft of social welfare reforms.

We can press the reform button again, and rebuild our social democracy, so that being born into the poorest decile no longer hinders your potential from flourishing. I switched my vote to Top. It seems to value young adults and is prepared to tackle the required major reform. The ball needs to start rolling….

[BlackPeter]

I had yesterday the somewhat questionable pleasure to attend the Press Leaders Debate in person (yes, the one where one Chris was sick and the other Chris found no replacement timeslot in his schedule - apparantly too many babies to kiss).

I was looking for an appropriate thread to put this in ... and which thread could be more appropriate than the one from the party which they should have invited, but didn't?

OK - unpolitical observations:

• Lots of police plus a large number of hired gorillas everywhere. Didn't knew police had so many officers in Christchurch. Given that they all have been in or in front of the townhall - this would have been the time to commit a crime somewhere else in town (sorry, too late now );
• Clearly - the audience was just there to fill the seats as background picture for the politicians. We had to be there early, all herded into the foyer and having to stand for 30 minutes or so before they opened the seating areas. However - plenty of TV cameras monitoring the audience during this time. Assume TVNZ filled its archives with crowd pictures for the next decades.
• Quite ridiculous setup of the stage. The audience did sit behind the politicians and could watch during the so called discussion only their backsides. Ever heard a politician talking through their butt? This is how it felt.
• Quite mediocre acustics - I assume at home on the TV it sounded better, but the audicence had to deal with significant back ground noice and a somewhat ineffective sound system. It didn't help either that the upper part of the town hall was empty - which gives very hard acoustics.

What the candidates said has been widely reported, so no need to repeat that. However - some impressions might be interesting:

• Both Marama (Green) and the Te Pati candidate came across as incredibly racist and arrogant. It sort of felt that cis white people should be grateful for being tolerated, but clearly are not wanted to contribute to politics.
• It didn't help that Marama seems to have brought her very own group of claqueures - maybe 20 to 25 people in a group following some signal either jumping up (or lifting their hands) for intense clapping ... and as well stopping in sync - and they had been as well trained to shout in disgust when sometimes one of the other speakers said something their conductor considered as un-PC. Not quite sure who gave the signal - at one stage it looked like Marama was communicating with them directly (which was quiet funny, given that she turned her back to us and was waving backwards with the hands), but I didn't observe enough of these signals to be able to claim correlation or causation. Pretty sure, though they had in the crowd or on the side some claqueure capo doing the organisation.
• The other party leaders or reps had to work for themselves to get applause - did they forgot to bring their claqueures?
• in general not a real discussion - it more felt like the moderator (Tova) was pushing a button and the candidates just came up with the song they practiced before which was closest to the theme of the question. Pity that - hardly any useful discussion between candidates - more like an examen setup with the candidates however freuently missing the essence of the question.
• some good questions, little useful answers.
• It feels difficult for me to say that, but from the participating leaders did David come across as one of the more moderate leaders. Obviously - they didn't invite moderate parties like TOP, so lets put that in perspective.
• Ah yes, and the moderator (Tova) asked what the candidates program for Christchurch would be. Pretty telling - none of the four invited parties had any program for Christchuch. Maybe, they should have invited TOP into the discussion, shouldn't they?
  

OK enough rant.

Pity they invited a Maori splinter party but not a mainstream liberal party (like TOP) into the discussion. Are the media biassed against liberals ?

Pity as well that the Greens felt that their arguments are that weak that they need to bring their own claqueures.

Pity that both Green as well as Te Pati did a lot to increase the racial divide in our society.

Still an interesting experience (even if my back still hurts from first the forced standing and than the long sitting) - but overall a pity affair.

Looking forward to the next election round with TOP being the shining star in the discussion ;

[Logen Ninefingers]

Info for voters here -

https://twitter.com/cjsbishop/status...35263521640898

[justakiwi]

Or maybe, if those people who want to vote for TOP, just ignored the propaganda, followed their convictions, and gave TOP their vote - Raf might just win Ilam.

All this so-called "advice" (as per your link) is nothing more than an attempt to manipulate people into voting National, by injecting fear (that Labour might win). It is all BS.

Vote for the damned party you want to vote for, and don't let anyone make you feel guilty for doing so.

Info for voters here -

https://twitter.com/cjsbishop/status...35263521640898

[Logen Ninefingers]

Desperation from Manji? His comments appear to be disingenuous and misleading.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/...to-parliament/

TOP's Raf Manji claims Labour and National have 'pulled back' in Ilam electorate

Thu, 12 Oct 2023, 6:47PM

'TOP leader Raf Manji says Labour and National have 'pulled back' from the Christchurch seat of Ilam, paving the way for him to get into Parliament.

Labour's Ilam candidate Sarah Pallett has dismissed Manji's claims as 'rubbish', and claims Labour is still in it to win it.

"We've been campaigning so hard, and it's a tiny bit insulting to my volunteers, who've really put in the hard yards and continue to do so- they've been out all day today. I'm just bemused."

National's Hamish Campbell says this is a 'desperate' claim from Raf Manji, as National has been working to bring in votes.

"If you drive through Illam, you'll see that it's absolutely covered in blue signs. We're working right up til we can no longer campaign, which is midnight on Friday. We're going strong."

Raf Manji is still defending his earlier statements, saying he's not seeing a lot of action on the ground from both major parties.

"We're out every day, and we've been out every day for the last month. Yes, we see billboards, but we're not seeing a lot on the ground. I'm sure there's staff doorknocking, but we're out and about."'