Nat/act/nzf 2023

[Logen Ninefingers]

The NZ Wars were land wars - Pakeha wanted more than the Maori were willing to give so Pakeha trumped up an excuse to fight and then, after they won, they confiscated even more land.
The NZ Company had a lot of input into this.
A sad period in NZ history.

A sad period aye.

And what would you call the below period?

‘In 1822 Ngāti Toa and related tribes were being forced out of their land around Kāwhia after years of fighting with various Waikato tribes often led by Te Wherowhero. Led by Te Rauparaha they began a fighting retreat or migration southwards (this migration was called Te-Heke-Tahu-Tahu-ahi), conquering hapū and iwi as they went south. This campaign ended with Ngāti Toa controlling the southern part of the North Island and particularly the strategically placed Kapiti Island, which became the tribal stronghold for a period.[5]

In 1824 an estimated 2,000 to 3,000 warriors, making up a coalition of tribes from the East Coast, Whanganui, the Horowhenua, southern Taranaki[6] and Te Wai Pounamu (the South Island), assembled at Waikanae, with the object of taking Kapiti Island. Crossing in a flotilla of war canoes under cover of darkness, they were met as they disembarked by a force of Ngāti Toa fighters led or reinforced by Te Rauparaha. The ensuing Battle of Waiorua, at the northern end of the island, ended with the rout and slaughter of the landing attackers who were disadvantaged by difficult terrain and weather plus divided leadership.[7] This decisive victory left Te Rauparaha and the Ngāti Toa able to dominate Kapiti and the adjacent mainland.[7]’

[Logen Ninefingers]

There are no easy places to go intellectually for the Leftists when you ask them why conquest, slavery, and cannibalism by Maori is perfectly acceptable - but conquest and slavery by Europeans is extremely wrong.

Because the Leftists consider Maori to be savages who couldn’t be expected to know better?

Then that would make Europeans ‘civilised’ people who should have known better(?)

Anyway….

Dobby41 says that the New Zealand wars are really ‘Land Wars’ and were all about ‘stealing land’ (Maori know all about ‘stealing land’ - it was the main occupation of conquerors like Te Rauparaha).

So lets consider the Waikato Invasion:

‘Plans for the invasion were drawn up at the close of the First Taranaki War in 1861 but the Colonial Office and New Zealand General Assembly opposed action, and the incoming Governor Sir George Grey (second term 1861–1868) suspended execution in December of that year. Grey reactivated the invasion plans in June 1863 amid mounting tension between Kingites and the colonial government and fears of a violent raid on Auckland by Kingite Māori. Grey used as the trigger for the invasion Kingite rejection of his ultimatum on 9 July 1863 that all Māori living between Auckland and the Waikato take an oath of allegiance to Queen Victoria or be expelled south of the Waikato River.[2]’

‘The largest tribe in New Zealand Ngāpuhi, (estimated by demographer Ian Pool to have 40% of all Maori people in 1840) held a meeting under their chief Tāmati Wāka Nene, in the Hokianga in 1863 to back the government in the war against the Waikato "rebels".[3] Waka Nene, who was a close supporter of governor Grey, offered the services of Ngāpuhi warriors, which Grey declined.’

[Logen Ninefingers]

‘It was only after many failed attempts that, in 1807, the slave trade in the British Empire was abolished. However, slaves in the colonies (excluding areas ruled by the East India Company) were not freed until 1838 – and only after slave-owners, rather than the slaves themselves, received compensation.’

———

‘As in many other cultures, slavery was a key element of Māori society. Mōkai (servants or slaves) were usually spoils of war, condemned to lives of drudgery, danger, heavy physical work and obedience to their masters or mistresses' whims; they were expected to fight under supervision, could be used to negotiate with enemies, or used as food if supplies were short. Female slaves might be prostitutes, or become secondary wives to their conquerors. Marriages between victorious chiefs and highborn women of defeated tribes strengthened the invaders' right to the land.
The Treaty of Waitangi of 1840 outlawed the taking of slaves, and made all Māori British citizens, but did not affect pre-Treaty arrangements. Christianity preached the equality of all before God and some slaves were freed as a result. In other cases masters and slaves were baptised together, but existing relationships prevailed. One of Rev. Ironside's best local preachers was Paramena, a slave who experienced some prejudice in his leadership role.
Some chiefs had many slaves, and mōkai
appear frequently in colonial records: accompanying masters, carrying goods or gifts, doing menial tasks and obeying orders. Chiefs hired slaves to European explorers and surveyors: Kehu and Pikiwati, Ngāti Tūmatakōkiri slaves of Ngāti Rarua chiefs, guided Brunner on his West Coast expedition (1846-1848). Tau, Ngāi Tahu slave of a Te Ātiawa chief, had accompanied Brunner, Heaphy and Kehu on their earlier 1846 journey. They all returned to their masters.2

Slaves were sometimes restored to their people: Paremata Te Wahapiro of Ngāti Tama, captured by Ngāi Tahu at Tuturau in 1837, was delivered back to Wakapuaka with a new wife, daughter of his captor, Taiaroa;3 Ngāti Toa returned Ngāi Tahu chiefs to Kaikoura or Banks Peninsula in about 1840;4 and a party of Ngāi Tahu made their way from Motueka to Lyttelton in two large boats in 1851.5 A few slaves escaped to become fugitives.

Some chiefs formed strong bonds with mōkai. Paremata wanted to support his mōkai, arrested in 1843, until deterred by Europeans;6 Panakenake and Poria, Kehu's chiefs, gave him a life-time interest in land at Motueka,7 and Ngarewa, Te Ātiawa chief at Port Gore, insisted Government agents allocate land for his Ngōti Apa slaves.8 Bishop Selwyn was amazed when one of his staff tried to purchase the release of his mother and brother from a chief at Croisilles. The mother refused to leave - "she loved her master" and would "not go out free".9

While there are accounts of very brutal treatment of slaves in pre-colonial times, the lack of criticism after 1840 suggests that officials, clergy and settlers were not offended by what they saw. Rangatira continued to own slaves well into the 1850s and perhaps later. Europeans supported the system by acknowledging the existence of slavery, and hiring slaves from chiefs; Sarah Ironside (wife of Samuel Ironside), home alone after the Wairau Affray, in order to retain the services of her domestic help, gave a "pair each of our largest and best blankets" to their chiefs who were leaving for the North Island.11

In general, slaves were keen converts to Christianity, no doubt attracted by its benefits to them and, as their masters' control decreased, often worked for Europeans who paid them for tasks they formerly did for nothing.12

The passage of time eventually led to the extinction of slavery.‘

[Joshuatree]

A sad period aye.

And what would you call the below period?

‘In 1822 Ngāti Toa and related tribes were being forced out of their land around Kāwhia after years of fighting with various Waikato tribes often led by Te Wherowhero. Led by Te Rauparaha they began a fighting retreat or migration southwards (this migration was called Te-Heke-Tahu-Tahu-ahi), conquering hapū and iwi as they went south. This campaign ended with Ngāti Toa controlling the southern part of the North Island and particularly the strategically placed Kapiti Island, which became the tribal stronghold for a period.[5]

In 1824 an estimated 2,000 to 3,000 warriors, making up a coalition of tribes from the East Coast, Whanganui, the Horowhenua, southern Taranaki[6] and Te Wai Pounamu (the South Island), assembled at Waikanae, with the object of taking Kapiti Island. Crossing in a flotilla of war canoes under cover of darkness, they were met as they disembarked by a force of Ngāti Toa fighters led or reinforced by Te Rauparaha. The ensuing Battle of Waiorua, at the northern end of the island, ended with the rout and slaughter of the landing attackers who were disadvantaged by difficult terrain and weather plus divided leadership.[7] This decisive victory left Te Rauparaha and the Ngāti Toa able to dominate Kapiti and the adjacent mainland.[7]’

https://feed.podbean.com/terauparaha...eware/feed.xml
Great podcasts here for all to experience.

[Bjauck]

I'd argue it should be the number one topic on any forum, platform or website in New Zealand.

As what the left are arguing for is essentially the dissolution of New Zealand, and the rights and privileges that ALL New Zealanders currently enjoy, as we know it.

No sh*t we need a referendum on it.

Many of our “rights and privileges” AND obligations evolved over time through legislative changes without referenda, which parliament can chose to ignore anyway. Universal suffrage was introduced without a referendum. NZ’s increasing independence from the UK occurred without referenda. What constitutes NZ is not ordained in an entrenched written document. We are not the United States. It evolves.

[mistaTea]

Many of our “rights and privileges” AND obligations evolved over time through legislative changes without referenda, which parliament can chose to ignore anyway. Universal suffrage was introduced without a referendum. NZ’s increasing independence from the UK occurred without referenda. What constitutes NZ is not ordained in an entrenched written document. We are not the United States. It evolves.

Yes and I don’t think the 50% + 1 vote majority we do is particularly democratic anyway. But that’s another matter.

It would be offensive to hold a referendum on a subject that disproportionately impacts Maori given their voice will be drowned out completely by the 80% + non-Maori.

Most of who are ignorant about TOW. Myself included.

Personally I think we are a long way away from a referendum. I do think it is time to have it thrashed out and debated in Parliament again though - a check point to consider where we are and where we need to go.

So in that respect I am very supportive of the deal the NATS and NZF did with ACT.

Beyond the first reading… I just can’t form an opinion yet.

[Bjauck]

Labour/ Greens have whipped up some sectors into a frenzy. So a via media does somehow need to be found. Perhaps after the initial frenzy at a change of government has abated a little.

[Balance]

Perspective from the right on what the Maori elites (fat cats) are really up to :

https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com...ff-tracks.html

It is obvious the Maori activists are going all out to cause mayhem and try to unseat this government. The recent hui at Ngaruawahia was proof of that. Was there anything discussed about working with the government on issues to improve their people’s lives? Unless the media chose not to report it, the answer is no. It appears that is because they regard the government as a bunch of ‘white supremacists’, while the King says Maori are all elites. Honestly, if he wants to drive Maori to a better place, he needs to change gears.

Their strategy of deliberately trying to undermine the government rather than engage won’t work – it will have the opposite effect, as the Democrats are finding out with Trump. So it will be with the government, as is evidenced by the latest Curia poll. How the coalition, particularly the National Party, handles it will be interesting, even revealing.

[Blue Skies]

Something which I have yet to hear mentioned but is incredibly significant is that for the first time in our history, we have a group of Maori who are now in their mid thirties, who have been right through the Kaupapa Maori Education pathway system, which reflect Maori principals, values and a Maori world view.

Kōhunga reo & puna reo ( early learning or pre-school),
kura kaupapa ( Primary )
wharekura. (Secondary)
Wānaga. (Tertiary)

- where teaching is often in Te Reo & based on Maori values with an aim of revitalising Maori language, knowledge & culture.

I think the first kōhunga reo was about 1985 & formally established under the 1989 Education Act, so those students who have been right through the system are now around their mid-thirties, 6 or 7 years ago in 2017 when Labour & NZF came to power they were late 20's. So around 2022 many were in their early thirties & moving up in their careers & into more senior roles.

Ask any person in a senior role in say the Public Service & they will tell you they are bright, aspirational, self assured, assertive & confident, & influential.

Just thought i'ld put this out there as I thinks it's important to realise there are a lot of factors at play, things are not always as simple as some like to believe.
For some who don't like what they are seeing, they heap all their anger on Labour, Ardern, Hipkins etc.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Something which I have yet to hear mentioned but is incredibly significant is that for the first time in our history, we have a group of Maori who are now in their mid thirties, who have been right through the Kaupapa Maori Education pathway system, which reflect Maori principals, values and a Maori world view.

Kōhunga reo & puna reo ( early learning or pre-school),
kura kaupapa ( Primary )
wharekura. (Secondary)
Wānaga. (Tertiary)

- where teaching is often in Te Reo & based on Maori values with an aim of revitalising Maori language, knowledge & culture.

I think the first kōhunga reo was about 1985 & formally established under the 1989 Education Act, so those students who have been right through the system are now around their mid-thirties, 6 or 7 years ago in 2017 when Labour & NZF came to power they were late 20's. So around 2022 many were in their early thirties & moving up in their careers & into more senior roles.

Ask any person in a senior role in say the Public Service & they will tell you they are bright, aspirational, self assured, assertive & confident, & influential.

Just thought i'ld put this out there as I thinks it's important to realise there are a lot of factors at play, things are not always as simple as some like to believe.
For some who don't like what they are seeing, they heap all their anger on Labour, Ardern, Hipkins etc.

Wow, that sounds great. That's fantastic. Truly.

And yet we hear from Maori that they think the government is trying to wipe them out and destroy them, and it's all based on some names of government departments & an attempt to clarify who is to going to govern New Zealand. Actually, it's the Maori from Te Pati Maori and the Greens that are saying it, along with Leftist flunkies that will oppose anything the Coalition does in the most knee-jerk manner possible. The hysteria gets further whipped up by the media, and then before you know it the Centre Right is being portrayed as a pack of racist monsters.

The carry on we are seeing would be commensurate with the Coalition saying "we are going to rip the Treaty into 48 pieces and expunge in from this nations history. Te Reo shall be outlawed, our version of NZ history will be taught in class rooms, and we are taking back Lake Taupo, Lake Rotorua, and the Waikato River."

Here is what an actual Maori leader - not from Te Pati Maori / Greens / Labour - had to say at Ratana:

“We care not what you want to call government agencies,” Rahui Papa of Tainui said, also saying Māori didn’t care about changing Māori signs, the priority was unity in Māoridom and self-determination.