Nat/act/nzf 2023

[dobby41]

dobby41, you are a self described large scale landlord. Yet you advocate for a Marxist position, whereby the state shall have control of personal property in the state's best interests. (substituting state for society). I don't think you have thought this through. Champagne socialists are the bane of our society (no state substitution)

Trust you to extrapolate my position as Marxist.
I advocate that LLs have a responsibility to fairness.
When the power is skewed one way or the other an environment or unfairness is created.
Currently, LLs have greater power because there is such a shortage of property (owner-occupied and rental) that LLs can get away with taking advantage.
I don't think you understand what actually happens on the ground - I see it more often than I should from fellow LLs.
It isn't champagne socialist you should worry about - it is positions born of ignorance like yours and many others here.

[dobby41]

“The less talent they have, the more pride, vanity and arrogance they have. All these fools however find other and bigger fools to applaud and follow them.”

Erasmus 1509

Nice quote - you must have very little talent then.

[Balance]

An idea of just what the new government is up against in trying to turn NZ as a country around from the waste, incompetence and failure of Labour/Green under Ardern, Hipkins, Robertson, the Maori cabal and the cast of useless ministers :

Ardern and Kainga Ora added 170% (yes, 170%) more staff between Dec 2017 and April 2023 - from 1223 to 3305 during Labour's first 5.5 years in office.

And what did the additional 2082 staff achieved and do?

Well, clearly they do not know how to even arrange and manage a rubbish collection! Something so simple and with plenty of experiences by councils to learn from, they managed to stuff it up!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/failed...EXN6Y4RYO4HFI/

"The cost to clean up “mountains of rubbish” illegally dumped on Rotorua’s Wrigley Rd has come to more than $11,000. Rotorua Lakes Council has confirmed more than 7 tonnes of rubbish was removed after a community clean-up day organised by Kāinga Ora went wrong. Kāinga Ora was picking up the tab after word spread on social media people could dump their rubbish for free on Wrigley Rd."

But WAIT! There's more!

KO's debt has risen from $1.089 billion in 2017 when Labour took office to $12 billion today! So that's $916,000 for the additional 12,000 units added (not built) by Labour under Twyford & Woods.

And so KO (under Woods) came out with a plan to sell off 10,200 state houses next few years which Treasury, after reviewing the proposal, slated it as unreasonable!

Because KO has only ever sold around 100 units a year.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politi...BBVZL5EHRRJQQ/
paywalled


What a bunch of buffoons!

Vui Mark Gosche - ex-Labour Minister appointed by Ardern to chair KO who resigned in a big hurry this year so he does not have to front for the failures of KO to deliver.

[dobby41]

Did I miss mention here of the interesting idea Simion has to tunnel 4km under Wellington?

[jonu]

Trust you to extrapolate my position as Marxist.
I advocate that LLs have a responsibility to fairness.
When the power is skewed one way or the other an environment or unfairness is created.
Currently, LLs have greater power because there is such a shortage of property (owner-occupied and rental) that LLs can get away with taking advantage.
I don't think you understand what actually happens on the ground - I see it more often than I should from fellow LLs.
It isn't champagne socialist you should worry about - it is positions born of ignorance like yours and many others here.

It's Marxist in that it advocates for State control over Capital (in this case the landlord's house). State dabbling in subsidising the rental market has just further distorted it. Accommodation allowances paid to renters are destined to end up in the pockets of landlords, justifying higher house prices and enabling a never ending upwards climb. Non-too clever is it?

[Bjauck]

It's Marxist in that it advocates for State control over Capital (in this case the landlord's house). State dabbling in subsidising the rental market has just further distorted it. Accommodation allowances paid to renters are destined to end up in the pockets of landlords, justifying higher house prices and enabling a never ending upwards climb. Non-too clever is it?

Every investment is subject to a regulatory scheme with state imposed requirements. If you don’t like any if them, then don’t invest, or sell up. I think for you, a state formulated scheme for residential property in which you think the balance favours the landlord, ironically is not Marxist.

[dobby41]

It's Marxist in that it advocates for State control over Capital (in this case the landlord's house). State dabbling in subsidising the rental market has just further distorted it. Accommodation allowances paid to renters are destined to end up in the pockets of landlords, justifying higher house prices and enabling a never ending upwards climb. Non-too clever is it?

There are already state controls over capital - a plethora of rules on what you can and can't do.

Accommodation allowances - I agree National (Ruth Richardson) made a bad move when they first introduced them and no one has been willing to get rid of them since.

[Bjauck]

I was thinking what life would be in a Jonu-inspired Marxism free society without state control over owner’s capital. I am not sure if there would be any Crimes or whether that would be regarded as Marxist control of the individual. However, There would be no building codes, as owner’s of capital should be free to employ their capital however they like, without any state regulations.

We would probably see the sophisticated development of voluntary codes that participants would be free to join. This would probably lead to areas of settlements that would have good quality buildings with a higher wealthy owner-occupant proportion, and with good quality rental accommodation with secure tenure for the wealthier tenants. There would be good security from private armies, and reliable services from suppliers. None of these people would want the independent non-member contractors, landlords and builders to move into their areas.

There would be townships with cheap buildings prone to collapse and fire, where the destitute would reside at their peril, and where landlords would risk having their investments collapse and burn. Private bailiffs would patrol these townships terrorising, and trying to exact overdue rent and absconding tenants.

There would be shanties where wouild reside the people that even the most lowly slum landlords would not accept. Some charities may helicopter in water, food and clothes.

There would be majority middling areas, where building collapses and fires would not be a daily occurrence. Services would be spasmodic.

This would end up similar to Ancient Rome in other words. Although that was bit “Marxist” with its state supplied aquaducts and gladiator events, and its sophisticated legal system controlling what people could do.

[Getty]

An idea of just what the new government is up against in trying to turn NZ as a country around from the waste, incompetence and failure of Labour/Green under Ardern, Hipkins, Robertson, the Maori cabal and the cast of useless ministers :

Ardern and Kainga Ora added 170% (yes, 170%) more staff between Dec 2017 and April 2023 - from 1223 to 3305 during Labour's first 5.5 years in office.

And what did the additional 2082 staff achieved and do?

Well, clearly they do not know how to even arrange and manage a rubbish collection! Something so simple and with plenty of experiences by councils to learn from, they managed to stuff it up!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/failed...EXN6Y4RYO4HFI/

"The cost to clean up “mountains of rubbish” illegally dumped on Rotorua’s Wrigley Rd has come to more than $11,000. Rotorua Lakes Council has confirmed more than 7 tonnes of rubbish was removed after a community clean-up day organised by Kāinga Ora went wrong. Kāinga Ora was picking up the tab after word spread on social media people could dump their rubbish for free on Wrigley Rd."

But WAIT! There's more!

KO's debt has risen from $1.089 billion in 2017 when Labour took office to $12 billion today! So that's $916,000 for the additional 12,000 units added (not built) by Labour under Twyford & Woods.

And so KO (under Woods) came out with a plan to sell off 10,200 state houses next few years which Treasury, after reviewing the proposal, slated it as unreasonable!

Because KO has only ever sold around 100 units a year.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politi...BBVZL5EHRRJQQ/
paywalled


What a bunch of buffoons!

Vui Mark Gosche - ex-Labour Minister appointed by Ardern to chair KO who resigned in a big hurry this year so he does not have to front for the failures of KO to deliver.

But the the extra KO staff would be a diverse group of people?

They would be able to recite the principles of tiriti in chorus quicker than a Tenancy agreement, and know what a rainbow crossing is.

The gang tenants really respected them, or did they??

[jonu]

I was thinking what life would be in a Jonu-inspired Marxism free society without state control over owner’s capital. I am not sure if there would be any Crimes or whether that would be regarded as Marxist control of the individual. However, There would be no building codes, as owner’s of capital should be free to employ their capital however they like, without any state regulations.

We would probably see the sophisticated development of voluntary codes that participants would be free to join. This would probably lead to areas of settlements that would have good quality buildings with a higher wealthy owner-occupant proportion, and with good quality rental accommodation with secure tenure for the wealthier tenants. There would be good security from private armies, and reliable services from suppliers. None of these people would want the independent non-member contractors, landlords and builders to move into their areas.

There would be townships with cheap buildings prone to collapse and fire, where the destitute would reside at their peril, and where landlords would risk having their investments collapse and burn. Private bailiffs would patrol these townships terrorising, and trying to exact overdue rent and absconding tenants.

There would be shanties where wouild reside the people that even the most lowly slum landlords would not accept. Some charities may helicopter in water, food and clothes.

There would be majority middling areas, where building collapses and fires would not be a daily occurrence. Services would be spasmodic.

This would end up similar to Ancient Rome in other words. Although that was bit “Marxist” with its state supplied aquaducts and gladiator events, and its sophisticated legal system controlling what people could do.

I don't think it unreasonable to see a difference between some regulation of standards etc, and the State dictating that you have no control over who you let your property to. So your lengthy extrapolation is somewhat unnecessary IMHO.