ALF - Allied Farmers Limited

**Lola** · 09-04-2017, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Vaygor1

True, however the litigation is a reality. It is the outcome that is still up in the air. There has been silence on this issue for 4 years now. PwC will be following the instructions from their insurers, otherwise no insurance payout to them if they lose the case. I do not think it is in the current ALF Board's nature to make announcements like this unless they really felt it was necessary.

Yes silence from Allied but plenty from the Court websites
Refer in particular to Court of Appeal Decision dated June 2016
Its all there including the confidential Allied share of any settlement plus other revelations
Enjoy

**noodles** · 23-04-2017, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Lola

Yes silence from Allied but plenty from the Court websites
Refer in particular to Court of Appeal Decision dated June 2016
Its all there including the confidential Allied share of any settlement plus other revelations
Enjoy

Tim Hunter has picked up on the story that is behind the paywall (no I won't summarise it as I think we should support quality journalism in NZ)...
https://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/hunter...lar-litigation

The court case that Lola refers to is here:
https://forms.justice.govt.nz/search...1926d483ed.pdf

**percy** · 23-04-2017, 04:45 PM

Thanks for the links Noodles.
Loved from the court case;
"We accept that a very large sum would be needed to repay the balance of the Allied debt,but we do not know just how much and we cannot rule out a large recovery."

We live in interesting times.!!!

**Beagle** · 23-04-2017, 07:32 PM

In my opinion the "management" of Hanover loans has been a complete and unmitigated fiasco from beginning to end.

Why was their such a atrociously low and terribly appalling recovery rate overall ?
Why was Allied interest in this possible recovery sold for such a tiny pittance ?
Why haven't shareholders been kept better informed ?
Have directors exercised due professional care at all times during this virtually unmitigated obliteration of shareholder value in obtaining fit and proper professional advice in entering into some of the transactions that ostensibly laid waste to hundreds of millions of dollars of receivables ?
Are these the sort of directors you would trust to manage your financial interests going forward ?
Why would you give them the benefit of the doubt now after such a truly appalling annihilation of shareholder value so far ?
The fact that they appear even unable to keep abreast of the potential recovery without relying on media reports suggests to me the Directors are asleep at the wheel...something the appalling recovery rate on receivables to date suggests has been the case all along, surely ?

The term "penny dreadful" from where I'm sitting has seldom been more appropriate.

I look forward with interest to your rebuttal and defense of directors actions Vaygor1.

**Vaygor1** · 25-04-2017, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by noodles

Tim Hunter has picked up on the story that is behind the paywall (no I won't summarise it as I think we should support quality journalism in NZ)...
https://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/hunter...lar-litigation

The audio interview with the author of this article can be heard by all here on NBR radio:

https://soundcloud.com/nbr-radio/hun...lar-litigation

The way I see it is there are are two tranches to potential revenue to ALF here, both relate to the portion available to PVL Creditors:
The 1st being the 5% or so to ALF of the amount recovered (if any) by SPF as part of the pre-existing deal between the two parties, called the Assignment Fee.
The 2nd is ALF's potential claim (if any) out of the other 95% paid (again, if any) to SPF as first secured creditor.

Anyone else see it differently?

Disc: I am not an expert on litigious matters by any stretch.

**Vaygor1** · 25-04-2017, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by Roger

In my opinion the "management" of Hanover loans has been a complete and unmitigated fiasco from beginning to end.

Why was their such a atrociously low and terribly appalling recovery rate overall ?
Why was Allied interest in this possible recovery sold for such a tiny pittance ?
Why haven't shareholders been kept better informed ?
Have directors exercised due professional care at all times during this virtually unmitigated obliteration of shareholder value in obtaining fit and proper professional advice in entering into some of the transactions that ostensibly laid waste to hundreds of millions of dollars of receivables ?
Are these the sort of directors you would trust to manage your financial interests going forward ?
Why would you give them the benefit of the doubt now after such a truly appalling annihilation of shareholder value so far ?
The fact that they appear even unable to keep abreast of the potential recovery without relying on media reports suggests to me the Directors are asleep at the wheel...something the appalling recovery rate on receivables to date suggests has been the case all along, surely ?

The term "penny dreadful" from where I'm sitting has seldom been more appropriate.

I look forward with interest to your rebuttal and defense of directors actions Vaygor1.

A sincere pleasure as always to enter into some robust discussion with you Roger.

I think a lot of your questions above are good ones, but have a listen to the link I posted just recently (repeated here)...
https://soundcloud.com/nbr-radio/hun...lar-litigation

The upshot being that it appears ALF were led down the garden path to the same extent as all of Hanover's shareholders and creditors.
This litigation issue has been all out of ALF's hands since transferring the debt to SPF four odd years ago, when they (ALF) received an up-front $100k as an assignment fee and wrote every cent of the said debt off.
PWC was the auditor for Property Ventures whose biggest (or nearly biggest) creditor was Hanover Finance.
The late John Waller. who wrote the independent report working for PWC did not disclose his relationship with Property Ventures to Hanover's shareholders or ALF (specifically, that he was an advisor to Property Ventures who owed $88million to Hanover).
Apart from two Director's, ALF's board are a different set of individuals from back then.. one of the original two being Garry Bluett, the current Chairman who I trust very much.
Unlike the past, ALF's current Directors hold substantial ownership of, and interests in, Allied Farmers.

I know and accept that sh!t splatters, and have heard a lot over the years from various Hanover Investors who lost their money, many mis-directing (in my view) their anger towards ALF.

Interesting article from three years ago which includes the above subject matter is here:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opin...ng-in-the-wind

I have copped an enormous amount of flak over the years regarding ALF on this forum. Refer a summary here in a post of mine in 2013:
http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthr...l=1#post432430

According to nearly everybody back then ALF should have been long long gone many years ago. Instead they now have settled their major debts with IRD / CAML / Speirs etc, have been through a complete debt-restructuring exercise and now have zero on-demand debt, put in place a wide range of other initiatives which I don't really want to go into tonight, expanded into Northland & the South Island, are acquiring ownership of other livestock businesses, employ & contract hundreds of Stock Agents, maintain positive equity with additional underlying value, have significant tax credits, and a healthy balance sheet.

Their full year result out in a few months I believe will be good if not sterlingly good.... it is the ALF's surplus cashflow that will dictate their ability to pay a dividend.

Disc: Large holder.