If National wins ...

[westerly]

MVT

"For someone who's party only just achieved 25% of the vote

I recall that National only had 20.93% of the vote in 2002. Social Democracy will make a comeback, perhaps once housing tanks, dairy farms with mortgagee sales signs at the farm gates, strikes in the health service. Perhaps when GFC part two occurs? Perhaps when John Key gets bored, gets his knighthood and decamps to London as High Commissioner?? What is your opinion?
i

"They would be very unwise to make that assumption. The laws of politics are like the laws of physics. What goes up tends to come down. Things that might seem to be working in your favour can suddenly turn around and bite you in the face."

Quote from an interesting John Armstrong article in the Herald re the National Party and the lingering smell from Dirty Politics.

westerly

[elZorro]

"They would be very unwise to make that assumption. The laws of politics are like the laws of physics. What goes up tends to come down. Things that might seem to be working in your favour can suddenly turn around and bite you in the face."

Quote from an interesting John Armstrong article in the Herald re the National Party and the lingering smell from Dirty Politics.

westerly

Yes, that's an interesting comment, Westerly. Here is the link.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/ne...ectid=11346115

Maybe John Armstrong is bipolar, because I distinctly remember him being on National's side, pretty much all the way up until the election. One of the comments after the article reminds us of that.

In fact, lots of good comments in there.

Maybe John was just as horrified as many other honest people, to be informed that dirty politics are alive and well in NZ.

[craic]

Labour lost the last general election - Maybe you haven't caught up? They lost because they could not enunciate policies that the voters could understand and maybe all that was because they were too busy in-fighting over who was leading and who was following. Published rubbish was consigned to the bin by voters and had nothing to do with the outcome. They have three years to get their act together if they hope to turn voters around - so far, they have shown little sign of improvement.

[elZorro]

I have now received targeted emails from all four leader candidates seeking my vote. Thousands of party faithful will have 40% weighting in the vote, 40% from a well-informed caucus, and 20% from union delegates representing workers.

It's very hard to make a decision based on an A4 page of messages from each, along with remembered TV interviews and press articles. I hope there is a startlingly good candidate in there, who will work very hard for the Party. They are all saying that they will, and that Labour needs to rebuild. Of course I think we had most things right, we just need to be a lot more staunch, and we shouldn't have torn through 3-4 leaders in as many years.

This played into the hands of National, it's the aim of their dirty campaign that raged for ten years, and they still have all the systems in place to continue in that vein. The new Labour leader needs to confront that reality head-on. So far, none of them have spelt that out in so many words.

[stanace]

I have now received targeted emails from all four leader candidates seeking my vote. Thousands of party faithful will have 40% weighting in the vote, 40% from a well-informed caucus, and 20% from union delegates representing workers.

It's very hard to make a decision based on an A4 page of messages from each, along with remembered TV interviews and press articles. I hope there is a startlingly good candidate in there, who will work very hard for the Party. They are all saying that they will, and that Labour needs to rebuild. Of course I think we had most things right, we just need to be a lot more staunch, and we shouldn't have torn through 3-4 leaders in as many years.

This played into the hands of National, it's the aim of their dirty campaign that raged for ten years, and they still have all the systems in place to continue in that vein. The new Labour leader needs to confront that reality head-on. So far, none of them have spelt that out in so many words.

I really don't think Labour, or their supporters, understand what happened.
National said, we want to govern alone, but if we don't quite get there, we will ask for help from ACT, United, Maori, and perhaps Winston.
Voters did not see that as being outrageous, just sensible, and not too much outside what they wanted.
On the other hand, Labour said, we cannot possibly govern alone, we will need the Greens, STOP RIGHT THERE, never mind Mana, Winston etc,, many, not all of course, did not really approve of the Greens policies, or their people, or their demands, eg deputy leaders of the next Government, so at that point seeing as the only chance Labour had of getting in was with the Greens, they just walked away.
This was quite clearly identified in the Party vote in electorates even where Labour won, and in fact in the Greens party vote.
If Labour do not see this, before electing a new leader, they are gone. They need to quite clearly breakaway from any involvement with the Greens and their policies, if they ever have a chance of winning a future election.
They need to say that they are prepared to try and win an election on their own merits, not with other (weirdos) parties, that people just cannot relate to.

[slimwin]

and 20% from union delegates representing workers.

The problem is,they don't represent the workers. People are generally in unions for the collective bargaining not because of allegiance to the "all out together brothers" brigade. The ones that are,are probably also the party faithful. This skews any chance of Labour picking the leader that will represent the majority. Little will be very short lived if picked. He's loathed by EMPU workers at my workplace. more than the dislike for Cunliffe.

And despite all this EZ lives in denial and believes it's nationals fault that labour has an identity crisis. Until this attitude is removed from the labour leaders/contenders,and i suspect it already is at caucus level,National will keep winning elections by remaining status quo.

[elZorro]

Stanace, maybe you haven't looked at Green Party policy for a while, it's not that crazy at all.

Slimwin and NBT have both said that Andrew Little isn't liked by the EPMU membership. I've no idea if that is correct, I could ask around I guess. I'm still keen on seeing David Parker as leader. I would like to know why he didn't back David Cunliffe immediately after the election, though.

David Parker would like to see a NZ economy that lifts all boats, not just superyachts.

On a not entirely unrelated point, people should remember this chart when moaning about isolated benefit fraud.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/nation...o-$9-point-4bn

The National govt has canned the idea of making this report available to parliament for debate. According to the Times editorial, this strongly suggests the govt did not like what it was told, and called a halt.

[stanace]

Stanace, maybe you haven't looked at Green Party policy for a while, it's not that crazy at all.

Slimwin and NBT have both said that Andrew Little isn't liked by the EPMU membership. I've no idea if that is correct, I could ask around I guess. I'm still keen on seeing David Parker as leader. I would like to know why he didn't back David Cunliffe immediately after the election, though.

David Parker would like to see a NZ economy that lifts all boats, not just superyachts.

On a not entirely unrelated point, people should remember this chart when moaning about isolated benefit fraud.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/nation...o-$9-point-4bn

The National govt has canned the idea of making this report available to parliament for debate. According to the Times editorial, this strongly suggests the govt did not like what it was told, and called a halt.

I didn't say the Greens ideas were crazy, just that many, not all, Labour supporters did not agree with some of the Greens ideas. This turned them off voting for the Labour party vote, along the lines, " I am happy that you will be my MP, representing me in Parliament, but there is no way I want you to be the actual Government, if the only way you are getting there, is with a lot of people who I don't agree with". And of course the Mana, Kimdotcom thing just turned even more off.
I truly believe that until they try and run by themselves, or that the Greens change what people think they, the Greens, stand for, there is no way staunch Labour voters will want to give their party vote to Labour.

[elZorro]

I didn't say the Greens ideas were crazy, just that many, not all, Labour supporters did not agree with some of the Greens ideas. This turned them off voting for the Labour party vote, along the lines, " I am happy that you will be my MP, representing me in Parliament, but there is no way I want you to be the actual Government, if the only way you are getting there, is with a lot of people who I don't agree with". And of course the Mana, Kimdotcom thing just turned even more off.
I truly believe that until they try and run by themselves, or that the Greens change what people think they, the Greens, stand for, there is no way staunch Labour voters will want to give their party vote to Labour.

I hope that the true story is much bigger than the choice of Labour's coalition partners.

National employ the services of neoliberal campaign strategists. Inequality and increased wealth from capital are the hoped-for results.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/economy/ne...ectid=11346756

[neopoleII]

""increased wealth from capital are the hoped-for results.""
isnt this what all workers, business people and governments strive for?
Regarding the current government..... I cant see them actively pushing for Inequality.......
They are however actively encouraging some folks away from a government funded cradle to grave lifestyle.