If National wins ...

[slimwin]

And the govt has/had a scheme to encourage apprentices to sign up. I have a few tradie mates that have used it. A big limiting factor is how may apprentices your workplace can support. Every guy getting paid to work inefficiently, is also using time of a fully productive worker to supervise. At Air NZ we sell mainetnance training but are turning a lot away after xmas as we can only have so many guys on the floor getting experience. There is no silver bullet despite a silver bullet policy headline. That's why we import eperienced guys. Thats what's required.

[elZorro]

They don't tell you. They take a good chunk of it through tax and spend it themselves.

We just had a heap of maths done further back up the post, which went to show that many people gained net value over and above the taxes they paid. The lower paid, up to 37% of the total, arguably the very top earners too, because they generally don't pay tax on everything. And then like any enterprise, the net benefits often exceed the money being spent on them. 200,000 paid wages in the public sector, a whole lot of external contracting being done, middle income net taxes coming back from that too. Plus all the other offshoot businesses that have a share of the cashflow. Most of this work is being done in areas that don't suit the private sector for various reasons. There is always an element of the public good. I don't begrudge my taxes, as long as everyone pays their fair share in their situation. We have to separate the issue of finding the tax to pay when we are not on PAYE, from the other issue of whether it is fair.

I put it to you, NBT, that the attitude of the big funders of the National Party is that tax is never fair or reasonable. Not for them.

[elZorro]

An editorial from the Herald: Bill English should do more than hope, to get the books into balance.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/ne...ectid=11375216

Note that there is a difference in opinion between Bill English and John Key: if the economy starts to improve further, conservative Bill would like to start repaying debt. Liberal John would like to give out more tax cuts (tax relief).

Great first comment to this article.

Wiseacre: 17th Dec. National has never achieved a budget surplus. All they have done is saddle future generations of Kiwis with billions in debt while knee-capping our ability to pay debt back by selling our assets and giving away tax cuts at a time the GFC and years of recession ahead were apparent for all to see. Prudent financial managers they are not.

The Christchurch earthquakes, soaring property values, and high milk prices have enabled National to cover up their lack of economic acumen and foresight, but what happens when the rebuild is done, the housing bubble bursts, and dairy prices plummet?

Asset plundering, undermining worker's rights, kicking beneficiaries, and selling out to large corporates is not a path to prosperity. Where is National's economic plan for the future? National have done nothing to diversify our economy and prepare for the challenges of the future, they are just leaving those problems for future administrations to sort out.

Economies should be judged on whether they deliver jobs and higher living standards to ordinary citizens. John Key's casual part-time economy only delivers wealth to those at the top, and is failing everyone else.

Cuzzie was always banging on about the current account deficit, and how National was fixing that. The GFC fixed it, as households were worried and started saving a small amount, instead of spending more than they earned. It wasn't National policy that started a turnaround in the proportion of the current account to GDP.

But that is now changing back to the old ways, and economists at Treasury and the Reserve Bank are predicting it to worsen by about 5% net deficit a year, on the back of the reduced dairy revenues, during the next two years.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11375858


From 2006: "The Hollow Men". John Key is noted throughout, he often accompanied Don Brash to talk to major party funders in unrecorded small private meetings. Including, with the Exclusive Brethren, when they were offered over $1mill in funding for pamphlets etc which needed to stay off the electioneering books. Part of Nicky Hager's research notes formed a leak which came out just before the election in 2005, and narrowly caused a loss for National.

What is interesting is that after the election John Key said he wasn't going after the Don's job, but that he "wouldn't rule it out".
He also informed the caucus straight after the election that it was a huge mistake for National to work with the Exclusive Brethren during the campaign. A bit rich, considering National had vetted the material, and John was there helping to secure the funding.

[elZorro]

Brian Fallow has another article on the growth rates in the economy, Treasury has revised previous data downwards. Some extra investment is showing in the business sector, new equipment.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11376451

The general figures imply that the reason we haven't had inflation to any degree, is because the growth was not much greater than the population change (average of 0.7% per year).

[winner69]

A consistent narrative and perception go hand in hand.

For seven years Bill has said here will be a government surplus. Never achieved but always close or next year. That's the consistent narrative - perception is that government doing a pretty good job in balancing books.

You never hear much from Bill about the rising government debt, now over $60 billion and up from $30 billion when he took over. Treasury still panning to borrow in 2019. No narrative here so perception is probably that increasing levels of government debt is not a problem.

EZ - if they want to get anywhere Labour need to undermine this consistent narrative. More than the spasmodic bleating about broken promises and all that but a real consistent 'narrative' of their own that not only undermines Bill's one but also is an alternative way forward (even if it says deficits are good if the spend s owing to make NZ a better pace). State the narrative, keep hammering on about it and the punters perceptions might just change.

Maybe there isn't that alternative narrative, if not Labour are gone for good.

[slimwin]

I think, actually, the voters got sick of listening to Labour whine.

[Major von Tempsky]

I think actually, if we (the vast majority here according to the pre-election poll here) are sick of hearing the unconstructive whine of Labour posters here we should move to Whaleoil (which is why I have not been so visible here :-) ).

Humour, calling a spade a spade, interesting references and facts, and a lot more activity than here. And of course it was easily voted the best blog/discussion site in NZ for the second year in a row.

This will make it even easier for EZ to break his outstanding record of 5 uninterrupted boring posts in a row here ;-)

[westerly]

I think actually, if we (the vast majority here according to the pre-election poll here) are sick of hearing the unconstructive whine of Labour posters here we should move to Whaleoil (which is why I have not been so visible here :-) ).

Humour, calling a spade a spade, interesting references and facts, and a lot more activity than here. And of course it was easily voted the best blog/discussion site in NZ for the second year in a row.

This will make it even easier for EZ to break his outstanding record of 5 uninterrupted boring posts in a row here ;-)

Some of the replies to various threads have had me contemplating whether Slaters activist mates are posting here. Never mind, if you can handle Slaters fronting for various business and. political PR. people pushing their own narrow interests while using any low tactic available to denigrate any perceived opposition you should feel right at home.

westerly

[blackcap]

Some of the replies to various threads have had me contemplating whether Slaters activist mates are posting here. Never mind, if you can handle Slaters fronting for various business and. political PR. people pushing their own narrow interests while using any low tactic available to denigrate any perceived opposition you should feel right at home.

westerly

Hi westerly, I would not consider myself a "Slater activist" but I do read his blog weekly and I am sure plenty more in NZ do so as well if his awards are anything to go by...

[elZorro]

A consistent narrative and perception go hand in hand.

For seven years Bill has said here will be a government surplus. Never achieved but always close or next year. That's the consistent narrative - perception is that government doing a pretty good job in balancing books.

You never hear much from Bill about the rising government debt, now over $60 billion and up from $30 billion when he took over. Treasury still panning to borrow in 2019. No narrative here so perception is probably that increasing levels of government debt is not a problem.

EZ - if they want to get anywhere Labour need to undermine this consistent narrative. More than the spasmodic bleating about broken promises and all that but a real consistent 'narrative' of their own that not only undermines Bill's one but also is an alternative way forward (even if it says deficits are good if the spend s owing to make NZ a better pace). State the narrative, keep hammering on about it and the punters perceptions might just change.

Maybe there isn't that alternative narrative, if not Labour are gone for good.

I quite agree, W69. They will need $2mill or more, and to spend more outside the time limits for the election, with billboards and so on. I certainly think there is a narrative that will work, and Bill's economic record can be called to account, as well as John Key's record of (dis)honesty. Labour's policies take a bit of thinking about, but nothing comes easy. In the meantime they should give Andrew Little any extra media training he needs, and swot up on how National steadily took over the minds of the average voter since 2004.