If National wins ...

[elZorro]

BP: your argument would be more salient or convincing if you ran a spell-checker over it.

My point, that wasn't made very well, was that for some reason Labour felt that they had to change leaders, not once but several times. The polls forced that issue, and the polls were driven by? Perceptions. And those perceptions were driven by?

You stated yourself that you don't personally know David Cunliffe, as an example. We are all very prone to accept what someone else tells us in the press, or in conversations like this. The job of the party strategists is to make sure that their story is front of stage. You have to admit that Crosby-Textor worked on many levels (some constitutionally illegal in my opinion) to do that for National. They've been doing it for ten years, it started working within 8 months.

John Armstrong has another article where he is picking away at National. I'm starting to warm to the guy. This time it's about state housing, Bill's new project for fundraising.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/ne...ectid=11347878

[BlackPeter]

BP: your argument would be more salient or convincing if you ran a spell-checker over it.

Oh dear ... if that's the best argument Labour has got to win the next election, than we better look for a new opposition party. Winston Peters - anybody?

BP: My point, that wasn't made very well, was that for some reason Labour felt that they had to change leaders, not once but several times. The polls forced that issue, and the polls were driven by? Perceptions. And those perceptions were driven by?

EZ, in politics, as well as in real life: "perception is reality". You should know that - and if the Pro's who run Labour don't know this, than they should go home. But who knows - maybe it was CT who picked and pays all the sorry Labour brass competing now for the first horn position? This might explain one thing or another .

With these musicians and with this attitude it might be already a stretch for the Labour orchestra to make next time the second place.

[westerly]

Oh dear ... if that's the best argument Labour has got to win the next election, than we better look for a new opposition party. Winston Peters - anybody?


EZ, in politics, as well as in real life: "perception is reality". You should know that - and if the Pro's who run Labour don't know this, than they should go home. But who knows - maybe it was CT who picked and pays all the sorry Labour brass competing now for the first horn position? This might explain one thing or another .

With these musicians and with this attitude it might be already a stretch for the Labour orchestra to make next time the second place.

EZ has a point. The Heritage Foundation a far right USA think tank rated NZ 5th this year in it's index of economic freedom by country. Under Labour in the Helen Clarke years NZ rated even higher. However Helen Clarke was accused by political opponents of running a "nanny state"
A tactic employed by National to good effect in the last election, have a consistent answer to all difficult questions and everybody stick to it.
Dirty Politics was the result of illegal hacking of someones computer. Ignore the ramifications of the content, concentrate on the criminal hacking,
The Labour leaders Shearer and Cunliffe were subject to constant petty criticism and the same will apply to whoever is elected as the new leader.
Labour has 3 years to get its act together which will prove difficult but National is going to have some problems to. But concentrate on the flag and the citizens will not notice.

westerly

[elZorro]

EZ has a point. The Heritage Foundation a far right USA think tank rated NZ 5th this year in it's index of economic freedom by country. Under Labour in the Helen Clarke years NZ rated even higher. However Helen Clarke was accused by political opponents of running a "nanny state"
A tactic employed by National to good effect in the last election, have a consistent answer to all difficult questions and everybody stick to it.
Dirty Politics was the result of illegal hacking of someones computer. Ignore the ramifications of the content, concentrate on the criminal hacking,
The Labour leaders Shearer and Cunliffe were subject to constant petty criticism and the same will apply to whoever is elected as the new leader.
Labour has 3 years to get its act together which will prove difficult but National is going to have some problems too. But concentrate on the flag and the citizens will not notice.

westerly

Thanks for the heads up Westerly. Here is that thinktank site.

http://www.heritage.org/index/country/newzealand

I noticed that govt spending was the lowest score the current govt got. This would be spending on Labour's policies that they dare not unwind, even if they'd like to.

Its score is slightly lower than last year, reflecting modest declines in four economic freedoms, including business freedom and freedom from corruption, that outweigh improvements in monetary freedom and labor freedom.

[iceman]

John Armstrong has another article where he is picking away at National. I'm starting to warm to the guy. This time it's about state housing, Bill's new project for fundraising.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/ne...ectid=11347878

This is a classic EZ. You are warming to him now because he has written an article you like, criticising Bill English ! Not so long ago you and/or Belg were calling him the " mouthpiece of a foreign owned right wing media organisation", or words to that effect.
I think Armstrong is one of our better political journalists. He obviously has his finger on the pulse, is respected and writes some very thoughtful and well researched articles. In my view he has always written fairly about all sides of politics, just simply calls it the way he sees it.
But its great if you are starting to see that and warm to his writings because hopefully you will then see that he is no right wing puppet !
His criticism of Labour prior to the elections, that so much upset Belgie, proved to be spot on !

[elZorro]

This is a classic EZ. You are warming to him now because he has written an article you like, criticising Bill English ! Not so long ago you and/or Belg were calling him the " mouthpiece of a foreign owned right wing media organisation", or words to that effect.
I think Armstrong is one of our better political journalists. He obviously has his finger on the pulse, is respected and writes some very thoughtful and well researched articles. In my view he has always written fairly about all sides of politics, just simply calls it the way he sees it.
But its great if you are starting to see that and warm to his writings because hopefully you will then see that he is no right wing puppet !
His criticism of Labour prior to the elections, that so much upset Belgie, proved to be spot on !

All that is true, but I think John Armstrong has had a major change of view since "Dirty Politics" came out, a new awareness. And just like I've been pointing out for a year or two, when you go looking for interesting details about National's relatively poor track record, they are there. John was explaining that Bill English and others have carefully set State Housing up for change, and now the real policy is being rolled out, after the election. I don't think National spelt that out in so many words, previously. How electable is policy that says

"We're going to sell off the entire state housing portfolio for whatever we can get for it, and we hope the private sector will do the polite thing with those houses".

Another recent article from John Armstrong. PM too "slick".

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11346785

[elZorro]

MVT has mentioned several times that Nicky Hager is just a spoilt rich kid who doesn't need to work. In that case it's strange that his friends have started up a Give-A-Little fund to cover any court costs coming up. At this point $62,000 has come in, which restores a bit of faith in democracy in NZ.

https://www.givealittle.co.nz/cause/NickyHager

[slimwin]

Being able to steal other peoples property or use there stolen property then claim some sort of immunity is not the democracy I want to live. And the majority of voters agreed.
The police are looking for the thief. Thats what they do...

[elZorro]

Being able to steal other peoples property or use their stolen property then claim some sort of immunity is not the democracy I want to live in. And the majority of voters agreed.
The police are looking for the thief. Thats what they do...

Since when are the Police interested in a blogger's email files? I had $3,000 of goods pinched from outside work, we had a car Rego and eyewitness description of the person likely to blame, and the Police didn't bother following it up. They were too busy with higher priorities.

John Key sent the cops in there to Nicky's house, no doubt. Don't forget that National's mates flogged data from Labour servers well before all these events, and Slater's blatant disregard for anything but audience ratings and right-wing extremism caused the denial of service backlash. It was probably a coincidence that email files were available during that event.

Now if National had advised Labour properly about the earlier unprotected files incident, they might have an argument in court. But they didn't.

Nicky Hager made very little from the book, so whatever funds come in through Givealittle, he's earned it.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/hager-legal-fund-flier

[blackcap]

Nicky Hager made very little from the book, so whatever funds come in through Givealittle, he's earned it.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/hager-legal-fund-flier

Since when is $500,000 "very little"? Nicky Hager is a trust fund kid.... The givealittle site is in my opinion being abused by people contributing to Hager. I find it quiet amoral for the Hager supporters misusing the givealittle site and what it was initially set up for and which does have many genuine cases.