If National wins ...

[elZorro]

I hope Mr Hagaman is prepared for a bit of speculation in court, because I see no reason for Andrew Little to back down over his comments.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...ic-hotel-group

What is being left out of these press releases is that the Hagamans are linked to a tax haven. They almost certainly don't actually pay much in the way of taxes to our govt, and they keep as much money in the companies as possible, to obtain more tax-free capital gains as well. Some $101,000 to the National Party, and more to ACT, is de facto tax put where they'd like to see it go. Never in the consolidated fund, that's for the hoi polloi. It's the rest of us who have to fund the boring stuff like roads and normal schools spread through the country. That's stuff that Andrew can't say, but enough is enough. Those at the top should pay their share of taxes.

Put an end to tax haven access from NZ, put 200 new IRD staff on the job looking for them, and let's see what happens.

[Snapper]

"Hagamans are linked to a tax haven. They almost certainly don't actually pay much in the way of taxes to our govt, and they keep as much money in the companies as possible, to obtain more tax-free capital gains as well"

Are you accusing them of tax evasion? Where's any proof of that?

[Daytr]

Snapper, did EZ say that? No he didn't.
I could go on, but why bother about something that wasn't said.

"Hagamans are linked to a tax haven. They almost certainly don't actually pay much in the way of taxes to our govt, and they keep as much money in the companies as possible, to obtain more tax-free capital gains as well"

Are you accusing them of tax evasion? Where's any proof of that?

[elZorro]

Snapper, did EZ say that? No he didn't.
I could go on, but why bother about something that wasn't said.

Daytr, I did say that. It would be hard to know for sure without something like a Panama Papers leak or an admission from the Hagamans, but in the company shareholders of at least one Hagaman company is an entity called The Gibraltar Trust. Gibraltar is a well-known tax haven region. This pattern is not uncommon in NZ amongst the big movers and shakers, we just don't get to hear about it.

David Seymour was just on the telly saying that the National Govt should be looking to make tax cuts, and not to worry about paying off the new debt, because it's only reached 26% of GDP. In the same breath he said that many private people would have debts above that percentage of their household income. No-one commented on that quick justification.

Except the govt income is only about $65 to $70 billion from all sources each year, and I believe it is lower than it should be by far more than the often reported $1billion from tax haven leakage, tax avoidance, cashies, and house or property flipping that beats the system.

So David Seymour mixed up two different percentages. The NZ govt has borrowings that match or exceed its total income in any one year, and has to pay interest on that. They also have to rotate some of the shorter term borrowings, and replace them with new ones. They are still borrowing more against the public purse. It's eight years on, they haven't even been able to start showing a real budget surplus yet. Moving some costs forward into the next financial period to report a small surplus, is not making a surplus.

That's probably why they're now having to admit that they can't offer any tax cuts in the next budget. Because the govt income, such as it is, (by the time they look after all their mates who have showered them with "donations/unpaid taxes" to fight the next election) has already been allocated, plus more no doubt.

[fungus pudding]

Daytr, I did say that. It would be hard to know for sure without something like a Panama Papers leak or an admission from the Hagamans, but in the company shareholders of at least one Hagaman company is an entity called The Gibraltar Trust. Gibraltar is a well-known tax haven region. This pattern is not uncommon in NZ amongst the big movers and shakers, we just don't get to hear about it.

David Seymour was just on the telly saying that the National Govt should be looking to make tax cuts, and not to worry about paying off the new debt, because it's only reached 26% of GDP. In the same breath he said that many private people would have debts above that percentage of their household income. No-one commented on that quick justification.

Except the govt income is only about $65 to $70 billion from all sources each year, and I believe it is lower than it should be by far more than the often reported $1billion from tax haven leakage, tax avoidance, cashies, and house or property flipping that beats the system.

So David Seymour mixed up two different percentages. The NZ govt has borrowings that match or exceed its total income in any one year, and has to pay interest on that. They also have to rotate some of the shorter term borrowings, and replace them with new ones. They are still borrowing more against the public purse. It's eight years on, they haven't even been able to start showing a real budget surplus yet. Moving some costs forward into the next financial period to report a small surplus, is not making a surplus.

That's probably why they're now having to admit that they can't offer any tax cuts in the next budget. Because the govt income, such as it is, (by the time they look after all their mates who have showered them with "donations/unpaid taxes" to fight the next election) has already been allocated, plus more no doubt.

You're spending too much time around negative members of the labour party who spout this sort of rubbish all the time. It won't do your paranoia any good.

[Daytr]

Ez, what you didn't say & what I was referring to was, that you accused them of tax evasion.

[Daytr]

Bill English, back flips on tax cuts because of the unexpected level of immigration and the money needs to go into infrastructure and health.
No argument on where the money needs to go, however is he the only New Zealander that is surprised by the level of immigration?
The immigration taps have been on full bore for years. The government control the level of immigration.
What I keep hearing that its all Kiwis coming home and not leaving.
Well this has also been going on for years, so why not turn down the level of real immigration ?
They won't because their lack of an actual sustainable economic plan for his country would be exposed.
This government is a bubble creator, we have had dairy, now its tourism and housing.
I have no problem with a strong tourism industry, but where has been the planning in regards infrastructure ?
As I've said before, in eight years of National government NZ has become a very expensive place to live.

[Snapper]

Daytr, I did say that. It would be hard to know for sure without something like a Panama Papers leak or an admission from the Hagamans, but in the company shareholders of at least one Hagaman company is an entity called The Gibraltar Trust. Gibraltar is a well-known tax haven region. This pattern is not uncommon in NZ amongst the big movers and shakers, we just don't get to hear about it.

David Seymour was just on the telly saying that the National Govt should be looking to make tax cuts, and not to worry about paying off the new debt, because it's only reached 26% of GDP. In the same breath he said that many private people would have debts above that percentage of their household income. No-one commented on that quick justification.

Except the govt income is only about $65 to $70 billion from all sources each year, and I believe it is lower than it should be by far more than the often reported $1billion from tax haven leakage, tax avoidance, cashies, and house or property flipping that beats the system.

So David Seymour mixed up two different percentages. The NZ govt has borrowings that match or exceed its total income in any one year, and has to pay interest on that. They also have to rotate some of the shorter term borrowings, and replace them with new ones. They are still borrowing more against the public purse. It's eight years on, they haven't even been able to start showing a real budget surplus yet. Moving some costs forward into the next financial period to report a small surplus, is not making a surplus.

That's probably why they're now having to admit that they can't offer any tax cuts in the next budget. Because the govt income, such as it is, (by the time they look after all their mates who have showered them with "donations/unpaid taxes" to fight the next election) has already been allocated, plus more no doubt.

If the Hagamans were in the Panama Papers you can be sure by now that someone would have found them. It is a fairly tenuous link to link the name of a trust with a known tax haven. I had a client a number of years, not wealthy but a British immigrant, who had investments in the Isle of Man that he didn't declare. The IRD were all over it which makes me think you would have to be pretty stupid to have your tax evading trust shown on the publicly available companies office website and name it after a tax haven. I don't think Earl Hagaman is a stupid man.

[fungus pudding]

Bill English, back flips on tax cuts because of the unexpected level of immigration and the money needs to go into infrastructure and health.
No argument on where the money needs to go, however is he the only New Zealander that is surprised by the level of immigration?
The immigration taps have been on full bore for years. The government control the level of immigration.
What I keep hearing that its all Kiwis coming home and not leaving.
Well this has also been going on for years, so why not turn down the level of real immigration ?
They won't because their lack of an actual sustainable economic plan for his country would be exposed.
This government is a bubble creator, we have had dairy, now its tourism and housing.
I have no problem with a strong tourism industry, but where has been the planning in regards infrastructure ?
As I've said before, in eight years of National government NZ has become a very expensive place to live.

So why don't you toodle off to somewhere cheaper to live !

[Sgt Pepper]

former economics editor Brian Fallow in todays Herald

"But until politicians muster the fortitude to deal with the tax distortions and take on the ever-growing vested interest in the status quo, the incentive to profiteer from extended periods of excess demand for housing will prove irresistible"