If National wins ...

[GTM 3442]

. . . Put another way, for every human in NZ, there are 20 animal effluent equivalents in the form of cows, who are not under full control when it comes to where they might 'take a dump'. That takes some cleaning up, doesn't it?

So the sooner we move to intensive "barn-raised and housed" dairy farming to facilitate manure retention, collection, and storage the better?

After all, aren't all those valuable phosphates, nitrates, and trace elements cheaper when they come free from the animal's a*se, rather than having to be bought in as bulk or bagged fertilizer. . .

The Danes have an interesting take on it.

http://www.inbiom.dk/Files//Files/Pu...rgy_UK_web.pdf

[elZorro]

So the sooner we move to intensive "barn-raised and housed" dairy farming to facilitate manure retention, collection, and storage the better?

After all, aren't all those valuable phosphates, nitrates, and trace elements cheaper when they come free from the animal's a*se, rather than having to be bought in as bulk or bagged fertilizer. . .

The Danes have an interesting take on it.

http://www.inbiom.dk/Files//Files/Pu...rgy_UK_web.pdf

Thanks for the link, GTM. I'll read more of that later. Looks like we are about 30 years behind the Danes. An excerpt:

..the former Danish
Government launched the Green Growth Plan in 2009. This
policy strategy suggests that in 2020 up to 50% of the livestock
manure shall be treated for energy purposes (before
being spread as fertiliser on fields) and ultimately all of it.
The technologies for processing would comprise anaerobic
digestion, gasification, pyrolysis and combustion, including
different pre and post treatments. The current government
supports this part of the Plan, and some politicians go further
and suggest that the spreading of raw, untreated manure
on fields shall be banned, thus indicating how future
policies might be.

Minerals do exit the farming system in the outputs of meat/milk etc, so they have to be replaced from external sources eventually, or farming would be unprofitable. For example, we have the strange situation in NZ where gas from Taranaki is used as the energy/feedstock for most urea fertilisers, as the most expedient way to reduce costs to the farmer.

http://www.ballance.co.nz/Our-CoOp/A.../Manufacturing

Here in NZ, many farms have low biological activity in the soil, which means nutrients are not captured as efficiently as they could be. This is what happens, for example, when you use glyphospate weedkillers on whole paddocks: the worm population is killed off too, and takes years to recover. A good spread of worm breeds on a farm is an indicator that the topsoil is well mixed and aerated, and scats are quickly brought down into the soil by worms. There is just so much dumb stuff going on, it's a wonder farmers can still make a profit most years.

There have been attempts with digesters on dairy farms here. Never took off, too expensive, say the farmers. The business in Hamilton that tried it, went broke. You'd have to legislate it.

Can you imagine a tanker rotating around local dairy farms and taking effluent pond solids to one digester plant, where it is converted to gas and topsoil, with the gas being used for massive glasshouse heating over colder months (100% efficient), or converted to electricity in other months (30% efficient).

[elZorro]

Helen Clark is going to step down from the UNDP in April, after 8 years of high profile work.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...ing-to-reports

Here is a glimpse of what she's been involved in, within her latest report.

UNDP is the largest implementer of climatechange initiatives in the UN Development System with a grant portfolio of $2.8billion across 140 countries which attracts another $5.65 billion inco-financing. The outcomes of Marrakech and the new rule book will guide thesupport UNDP gives to programme countries. UNDP has partnered with countries onfirst the design and now on the delivery of their NDCs. Our efforts are greatlyenhanced by the strong relationships we have with the Global EnvironmentFacility, the Green Climate Fund, the Adaptation Fund established under theKyoto Protocol, and other funding sources and partners. UNDP is also helpingcountries to link their NDCs to national SDG implementation.

So here is one competent politician at least, who knows a fair bit about climate change. She's probably returning to NZ.

[GTM 3442]

Thanks for the link, GTM. I'll read more of that later. Looks like we are about 30 years behind the Danes. . . . .

elZorro, I rather think you'll find that it's a great big wide world out there,full of things to learn, and full of good examples of what works and works well.

New Zealand seems particularly resistant to learning. . . whatever political party holds the reins of power.

[elZorro]

elZorro, I rather think you'll find that it's a great big wide world out there,full of things to learn, and full of good examples of what works and works well.

New Zealand seems particularly resistant to learning. . . whatever political party holds the reins of power.

I have to agree with that, the rural sector as a whole, seems to be the most resistant to change. In the Waikato Times this morning, Winston Peters using the same rubbish Lumsden quote to imply that cows would have about the same effect as humans over their lifetimes, so it must be urban pollution (he just massaged the figures even more). He says the Waikato River got a clean test all the way down, at some point in time over this summer. That's because it was dry, and there was no point source runoff like you get when it rains. He must be going for rural votes.

[GTM 3442]

Oh, I don't think you need to confine your remarks to the rural sector. There's plenty of willful blindness to go around.

[elZorro]

Oh, I don't think you need to confine your remarks to the rural sector. There's plenty of willful blindness to go around.

What do you mean? That too many people think that National will create workable policies to dig NZ out of this increasing downwards trend in the true economy? Or that we can grow rich selling houses to each other and to new immigrants? That many are blind to climate change and the near-term implications for NZ?

We've recently seen ancient human structures destroyed by zealous but ignorant religious movements overseas. Now Trump is making those with enough cash to relocate anywhere from the USA, have a good look around. We're on the radar.

National has been able to demonstrate just what can be done with immigration settings. House prices in Hamilton up by 25% in one year, while normal inflation is very low. That's great for the people already in the housing market, dangerous for anyone else, the majority. Which puts National's policies on the losing side of the argument.

National's attempt at R&D strategy seems to be floundering. Look at the comments, Callaghan Innovation is a joke to many who would know.

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/callag...+February+2017

[fungus pudding]

Helen Clark is going to step down from the UNDP in April, after 8 years of high profile work.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...ing-to-reports

Here is a glimpse of what she's been involved in, within her latest report.



So here is one competent politician at least, who knows a fair bit about climate change. She's probably returning to NZ.

There are many who know about climate who have a contrary opinion. I'm not sure who is right, but I'll go along with AGW alarmists purely because it leaves a cleaner planet - although not necessarily cooler.

[elZorro]

There are many who know about climate who have a contrary opinion. I'm not sure who is right, but I'll go along with AGW alarmists purely because it leaves a cleaner planet - although not necessarily cooler.

I think it's too late for that FP, there could be an event anytime, which puts 10x the current level of methane into the atmosphere over a few years. That's just one catastrophe the climate scientists are worried about. These are not times when any decent politician can imply that it's business as usual. It's not. A lot of these new wealthy immigrants, they're asking real estate agents about any implications of sea level rises.

[blackcap]

I think it's too late for that FP, there could be an event anytime, which puts 10x the current level of methane into the atmosphere over a few years. That's just one catastrophe the climate scientists are worried about. These are not times when any decent politician can imply that it's business as usual. It's not. A lot of these new wealthy immigrants, they're asking real estate agents about any implications of sea level rises.

Im not convinced at all ElZorro.... This is about Carbon, but carbon is a good thing and we should be aiming for 600ppm or more...

http://www.thegwpf.org/images/storie...ouse_gases.pdf