Winston says this sounds rather xenophobic and says congratulations for putting New Zealand First
Not so, W69. In fact Andrew Little said he'd personally call out anyone who implied that, just yesterday.
The central issue is that immigration has gone out of control over National's reign. It has boosted the economy, but left us with a shortage of road space, hospital beds, school places, school leaver jobs, and more noticeably, houses. National will have to go into the election while leaving the immigration settings alone, for fear of looking caught out.
If they do change the immigration settings now, it could quickly impact on house prices in Auckland. High immigration set those prices alight, and a more sensible setting will put them in a holding pattern at best.
Anyway, W69 (Devil's Advocate) where would you stand on record immigration into NZ, really? Not one of the 25%? I'm ambivalent about it, to me it's just another example of National's mismanagement, a failure to govern.
National's economic record - Crown debt way up at nearly $100billion, the govt will be paying about $3billion a year in interest, that's 4% of taxes paid, and they're still a long way off repaying any debt. That never gets mentioned.
EZ, just wondering whether now is for Labour a good time to jump on the leaving populism train? Didn't you notice that anti immigration Trump's popularity is at an all time low, the populist anti immigration tories got a kick in the guts in Britain and Winston First looks paler by the day.
I guess it is obviously pure desperation that Labour offers to severely damage our international education industry to satisfy a handful of old caucasians who otherwise would vote for Winston, but still - do you really think this is a good idea? Or is this just blind loyalty to a party which passed their best by date a long time ago and is not any more capable to shape a better future?
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"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)
EZ, just wondering whether now is for Labour a good time to jump on the leaving populism train? Didn't you notice that anti immigration Trump's popularity is at an all time low, the populist anti immigration tories got a kick in the guts in Britain...
I don't think that is correct for the UK. Both UK labour and Conservative platforms pledged to bring back sovereign control over immigration by ending freedom of movement with the EU. This may have improved Labour's chances in areas that heavily voted for Brexit in the referendum. However unlike the Cons, Lab may not have produced specific migration targets.
Sensible control of immigration and populism are not necessarily linked.
Controlling migration so that infrastructure can cater for increased population is sensible and can allay the rise of populists. It is not linked to Vilification or scapegoating of immigrants, which can be a hallmark extremists and populists.
Not so, W69. In fact Andrew Little said he'd personally call out anyone who implied that, just yesterday.
The central issue is that immigration has gone out of control over National's reign. It has boosted the economy, but left us with a shortage of road space, hospital beds, school places, school leaver jobs, and more noticeably, houses.
.....and more]
You hit the nail on the head - the real issue is lack of investment on those things you listed .....by successive governments this century
“ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”
Anyway, W69 (Devil's Advocate) where would you stand on record immigration into NZ, really? Not one of the 25%? I'm ambivalent about it, to me it's just another example of National's mismanagement, a failure to govern.
No EZ - I'm aligned with those 31% of NZ citizens who are total positive thing (as opposed to the 25% who think it negative)
Over the last 5 years net migration has increased by 76,000 odd (from -4,000 to +76,000). Interestingly NZ citizens make up 38,000 of this change (say half) being 29,000 LESS NZers leaving and 9,000 more NZers returning home.
Yes nearly 30,000 more non NZers have arrived here (98,000 in total) but over many years we have managed quite well with an average of 70,000 new arrivals). I still contend that this is good for NZ
So a lot of the 'issues' around 'immigration' is actually all these bloody Kiwis coming home and less leaving.
That survey you posted the link too is interesting - makes you wonder why Labour wants to make an issue of immigrtaion if only 25% of NZers think its bad. Are they trying to create an emotional argument or something and sway some of those in the 42% who seem relaxed about immigration one way or the other.
Result of that survey below
“ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”
EZ - that survey about immigration really interesting. Thanks for pointing me towards it
I found this bit intriguing -
Younger New Zealanders lean towards a more open and accommodating approach to migration
One trend that runs throughout the UMR survey is that younger New Zealanders lean toward openness and accommodation on migration. Compared to the over-60 demographic, for example, 18–29 year olds are half as likely to think you need to be born in New Zealand to be a “true New Zealander” (21% versus 40%), half as likely to think migrants should abandon practices that New Zealanders deem “wrong or offensive” (24% versus 47%), much more relaxed about English language proficiency, and generally much less likely to agree with various complaints about immigration such as reduced cultural cohesion, sense of belonging, urban segregation, crime, and risk of terrorism.
Begs the question - who are Labour targeting with this immigration policy?
“ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”
Originally Posted by elZorro
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