If National wins ...

[Major von Tempsky]

The problem is that Helen Clark's grand strategy has been too successful.
Her secret aim was to make everyone in NZ a state beneficiary in one form or another so she could play on this in various ways to make them beholden to, and voting, Labour.
We must all strive to achieve our independence and knock that strategy for six.

[elZorro]

The problem is that Helen Clark's grand strategy has been too successful.
Her secret aim was to make everyone in NZ a state beneficiary in one form or another so she could play on this in various ways to make them beholden to, and voting, Labour.
We must all strive to achieve our independence and knock that strategy for six.

That is rubbish MVT, the idea is to bring everyone up, not bring everyone down. So Labour's policy, and Helen Clark's philosophy, is exactly the opposite of what you are thinking. Can you advise how all of us can get very rich at the same time? Or is it just a few in the top percentile that deserve to get ahead?

MVT and/or FP, what do you think of this article by Brian Fallow?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10896444

[iceman]

Sounds like National has been very lucky, or very organised, to have some of the heat taken off the proposed Sky City legislation for more gaming equipment.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...rer-leadership

If it wasn't Labour MPs, who started the rumours?

It will take one rogue National MP to scuttle the infamous Sky City deal at the first reading. Where's someone with the integrity of Marilyn Waring?

Or just very clever to get this done EZ. John Roughan sums it up perfectly and I agree with it 100%. What is your objection to the Sky City deal ?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/n...ectid=10897465

[elZorro]

Or just very clever to get this done EZ. John Roughan sums it up perfectly and I agree with it 100%. What is your objection to the Sky City deal ?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/n...ectid=10897465

1. Due process was not followed in the screening down to one bidder. John Key abused his powers of office.
2. The sinking lid on local venue gaming machines already will be helping Sky City, who have not reduced their machines or tables. Now they get to increase their machines and tables.
3. Of course Sky City are likely to make a profit on the convention centre operation, they have their own accommodation and the expanded casino ready at hand.
4. They are not likely to offer the public any special deals for concerts, it'll be strictly commercial.
5. A casino pays a very small percentage of its takings back to the community, whereas local venues like pubs have to pay over 30%. That's a huge difference, when it comes to making money out of gamblers' misery. The money goes out of the local community, and it stays out.

[craic]

Gamblers gamble just as alcoholics drink. If you close half the alcohol outlets in NZ it may reduce alcohol consumption but it will not affect alcoholics - they will continue to be alcoholics and to drink. If you shut down half the pokie machines in NZ you may reduce the amount of money going through the machines but the gamblers will continue to gamble in that manner or some other.

[neopoleII]

well said craic...... NZ politics is going down the toilet.
you would of thought that with the advent of the internet and mass media more folks would learn to see the crap coming from our beehive..... but alas our nation is being dumbed down.
the missus and me are on a big mission to close our investment webs and consolidate all our funds and live on what we have without interference from current and future political influences.
we see not to good times ahead.

[elZorro]

Gamblers gamble just as alcoholics drink. If you close half the alcohol outlets in NZ it may reduce alcohol consumption but it will not affect alcoholics - they will continue to be alcoholics and to drink. If you shut down half the pokie machines in NZ you may reduce the amount of money going through the machines but the gamblers will continue to gamble in that manner or some other.

Maybe it's a fundamental way of looking at the world, but I think some/all people need to be saved from themselves. In that we'll be lazy, easily led, given the chance. Your argument falls very flat when you look at the fundamental change happening in NZ regarding cigarette smoking. It has taken state intervention to get that moving. And I hope it keeps moving in the same direction.

My favourite school teacher, a regular smoker, looked around the class one day and said to us "My advice to you all is, just don't start smoking". I heard from one of his colleagues recently, that he did die early, from a bad cancer.

So that's what I see as the issue here - more pokies, more people going in with mates, more chances of them getting hooked. There are some businesses that you should never invest in, if you want to lie straight in bed. Sky City could be one of them.

[craic]

So now we close the 42 reported fast food outlets in Queen Street because people need to be protected from themselves? That's left-wing social engineering at its finest.

[iceman]

Maybe it's a fundamental way of looking at the world, but I think some/all people need to be saved from themselves. In that we'll be lazy, easily led, given the chance. Your argument falls very flat when you look at the fundamental change happening in NZ regarding cigarette smoking. It has taken state intervention to get that moving. And I hope it keeps moving in the same direction.

My favourite school teacher, a regular smoker, looked around the class one day and said to us "My advice to you all is, just don't start smoking". I heard from one of his colleagues recently, that he did die early, from a bad cancer.

So that's what I see as the issue here - more pokies, more people going in with mates, more chances of them getting hooked. There are some businesses that you should never invest in, if you want to lie straight in bed. Sky City could be one of them.

Fair enough EZ. You have outlined your concerns. I wonder if you had these same concerns when Helen Clark made an almost identical deal mwith Sky City a few years back ? Needless to say, I don´t share any of your concerns. I thyink you need to take a deep breath EZ and smell the roses. We live in a wonderful country that is doing OK.

I think you have diverted too far in comparing cigarette smoking, where all users are harmed to some degree, with gambling. A very small proportion of gamblers are " harmed" by it. Most do it for fun and recreations, which thankfully is still allowed in NZ.
Craic has summed it up correctly, banning the masses to have a bit of fun to unsuccessfully try to protect the few from themselves, will never worke.

[slimwin]

Yep,cost me $40 last night at the casino. Second time i've been there this year. Put off for another six months now. All my gambling now is done with NWE and TTE!