If National wins ...

[Major von Tempsky]

The tendency of communist/socialist governments is to wind up with half the population employed spying on the other half and on each other as with the Stasi in East Germany and in "1984" and in Helen Clark's NZ if she had stayed in power longer. I guess it does keep unemployment down.

That would be the only way a Labour Government could have picked up lies told by the SCF directors and signed off by them as being true to get into the deposits guarantee scheme. Or should you assume that every statement written and signed off by directors of NZ listed companies are lies and have squads of spies employed full time to discovering these lies?

[Harvey Specter]

HS
reasonable points, buts heres an ethical question, whats your opinion, truly, of tax evasion, is it
A as bad as benefit fraud
b not as bad
c just bad luck for the people who get caught by IRD,

and do you think the penalties are fair or should they be more severe

Tax Evasion is criminal (fact) and should be punished as such (my opinion)
Tax avoidance is a civil wrong subject to penatlies (fact). The IRD has had a lot of success in this area recently which on a whole is probably a good thing. The issue is it normally relates to structures etc that were deemed 'standard practice' yet 10 years later when they finally get to court, are deemed illegal. If it was clear as day at the time you did the transaction that it was tax avoidance, then I have no issue with them having to pay penalties of 20-100% (opinion)
Outstanding tax debts are actively pursued by IRD - they would put the most companies into liquidation (fact). This is good (opinion).

The same standards should apply to beneficiaries. The difference is people have to eat, especially kids, so you cant take quite a hard line as you do with corporate's.

The difference between the two is tax fraud/avoidance/not paying is a taxpayer not giving money to the government, whereas with beneficiaries, is it the government giving it to them. As such, the Govt normally has alot more information in relation to beneficiaries that it does with tax payers and that information is easier to act on. If IRD has the information which allows them to stop the issue from occurring, they should use it.

[Sgt Pepper]

HS
Good post and well argued

[elZorro]

Ways to tackle tax avoidance could be one of the bigger policies Labour has yet to announce before the election. National is waiting for overseas interests to formulate a policy. Or as some suspect, they might just look to copycat Labour's ideas.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11185239

NOT for FP to read, this is yet another link to an article . One that is particularly useful in finding a take-home message from the last few posts. I didn't read this in a paper, or I'd have posted it earlier. I googled it. Are we allowed googled articles on the thread FP?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/ne...ectid=10871292

[fungus pudding]

Ways to tackle tax avoidance could be one of the bigger policies Labour has yet to announce before the election. National is waiting for overseas interests to formulate a policy. Or as some suspect, they might just look to copycat Labour's ideas.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11185239

NOT for FP to read, this is yet another link to an article . One that is particularly useful in finding a take-home message from the last few posts. I didn't read this in a paper, or I'd have posted it earlier. I googled it. Are we allowed googled articles on the thread FP?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/ne...ectid=10871292

I don't think either party has better ideas on tax avoidance than the other.
Every govt. in the world grapples with this one.

[elZorro]

I don't think either party has better ideas on tax avoidance than the other.
Every govt. in the world grapples with this one.

FP, is that all you took from the article? National is clobbering beneficiaries, while allowing major tax fraud to continue. The total amount withheld, would add about 10% to govt revenues, and is a bigger proportion of the total tax take. Policy to address this fully, would not go down well with National's core voters.

For those who are employed and on a payroll (or have aspirations to be), it will have no effect at all.

[fungus pudding]

FP, is that all you took from the article?

Yes.
.

[westerly]

My wisdom for the day is - Being one eyed will not win a spoon & egg race, but it wont stop spoons and eggs being part of it. Sue Moroney, your an egg.

Definition of an egg in NZ slang for those not in the know is/ An egg is a New Zealand slang word for someone who is acting like a dumbass, clown or an idiot. However it is used as a nicer way of saying such things. A recent Kiwi movie called "Boy" uses this word several times. It also could be used instead of saying dick. "stop being adick, bro"
Stop being an egg, bro.

Sue don't stop being an egg, you showcase Labour beautifully.

one eyed? no more than you bro!
westerly

[Sgt Pepper]

FP
Sometimes I think the most disadvantaged group who are not listened to by any government are middle to upper income earners. In effect we pay the bills for the entire country, I base this belief on the following, and I concede could be construed as unwarranted observations.
When our children (they are all over 20 now)were young there was no working for families, family benefit had been abolished, you had what you had and that was it. We had 3 daughters, we paid income tax and contributed . WFF has merits, but I believe everyone should contribute via the tax system to the cost of running a civilised society. I don,t think its fair or wise that a family of three , earning $50K receiving WFF pays in effect zero income tax whereas we have to contribute many thousands in PAYE every year

[fungus pudding]

FP
Sometimes I think the most disadvantaged group who are not listened to by any government are middle to upper income earners. In effect we pay the bills for the entire country, I base this belief on the following, and I concede could be construed as unwarranted observations.
When our children (they are all over 20 now)were young there was no working for families, family benefit had been abolished, you had what you had and that was it. We had 3 daughters, we paid income tax and contributed . WFF has merits, but I believe everyone should contribute via the tax system to the cost of running a civilised society. I don,t think its fair or wise that a family of three , earning $50K receiving WFF pays in effect zero income tax whereas we have to contribute many thousands in PAYE every year

In those days there was no GST; just a weird sort of scatter-gun sales tax on certain items. GST has made things a lot fairer. I think NZ would benefit if WFF, income tax, GST and all excise taxes were comprehensively revised. It's all a hotch-potch of mish-mash ad hoc policies that once introduced become politically difficult to alter - so one party or the other just adds another layer of complexity.
A start from scratch could benefit all - but it won't happen. Gareth Morgan wrote a book 'The big kahuna' something along these lines, not that I agree with his overall proposals, but he's on the right track.