If National wins ...

[Cuzzie]

Cuzzie, . I am on enalapril LOL You have an obvious diskike of the Greens, just as I have do not appreciate most of what Act represents. However the views of the " looney left "as you call them and the "rabid right " do sometimes have merit.
If the major parties Labour and National showed more integrity then mmp would not be a problem. They are not compelled to give in to the demands of
the smaller parties but in their desire for public office appear to accept some policies their supporters are not comfortable with.
As for global warming this thread is supposedly about politics and the 2014 election and has been thrashed to death elsewhere.. I have been around long enough to realise that unless the effects of mankind on the environment are not severely curtailed there will be a price to pay.
westerly

westerly, you have picked up that I don't like MMP, why give the 1 to 15 percenters (is that a word) over 50% of the power? I do hate the Greens and don't trust them one bit. They aren't about being Green, They are about control & power. Labour & National are about looking after the people and our country in their style, the Greens are about telling the people what to do and enforcing it. That's a dictatorship. So yep, you have got me westerly, I hate the Greens and so should you. If somebody started an org. called the Real Green Party, you would see a difference in both policies and the people involved when compared to the Marxist theories we get from the Greenies.

[Cuzzie]

Finally, Peter Dunne has announced a ban all legals highs within two weeks. I realise that most of the drug takers would be low lifes from a left wing background, but to take so long is total unacceptable. Even more reason not to bring minor parties into the fold and power. Peter Dunne, what were you thinking making these drugs legal for so long. Two weeks notice means stocking up by these thugs too. The fact that Peter Dunne's son is the spokesperson for the druggies has nothing to do with it - yeah right. Hopeful National gets over 50% so these power deals wont come into play.
If Labour get in with the dirty-greens, you can amplify those deals by 40%. That's why I'm against MMP, and what it brings to the table.

[artemis]

Finally, Peter Dunne has announced a ban all legals highs within two weeks. I realise that most of the drug takers would be low lifes from a left wing background, but to take so long is total unacceptable. Even more reason not to bring minor parties into the fold and power. Peter Dunne, what were you thinking making these drugs legal for so long. Two weeks notice means stocking up by these thugs too. The fact that Peter Dunne's son is the spokesperson for the druggies has nothing to do with it - yeah right. Hopeful National gets over 50% so these power deals wont come into play. If Labour get in with the dirty-greens, you can amplify those deals by 40%. That's why I'm against MMP, and what it brings to the table.

A triumph largely based on a media campaign showing sad people lining up outside shops in poor suburbs. At least those shops and their locations would be closely monitored, product quality checked, tax paid. I think the folk protesting about the shops have no idea how easy it is to buy product from sellers who are not under any sort of control and don't pay taxes. Peter Dunne was on TV in the weekend saying about the Irish ban:

I spoke to the Irish Minister of Health less than a month ago, he said it’s been a complete disaster: all we’ve done is take these things off the main street and on to the black market, the quantity of product is unchanged, the problems people were experiencing has not changed. He said we wish we hadn’t done it.

[fungus pudding]

A triumph largely based on a media campaign showing sad people lining up outside shops in poor suburbs. At least those shops and their locations would be closely monitored, product quality checked, tax paid. I think the folk protesting about the shops have no idea how easy it is to buy product from sellers who are not under any sort of control and don't pay taxes.

How do you know they don't pay tax? They are certainly not exempt from tax. Some crims think they have more chance of being caught by the IRD than the cops. Once potted for tax evasion the cops follow in, so they take the view that tax is money well spent. As I understand it if you make a voluntary tax payment or other declaration to the IRD, it remains confidential.

[artemis]

How do you know they don't pay tax? They are certainly not exempt from tax. Some crims think they have more chance of being caught by the IRD than the cops. Once potted for tax evasion the cops follow in, so they take the view that tax is money well spent. As I understand it if you make a voluntary tax payment or other declaration to the IRD, it remains confidential.

Fair point, though I won't be providing any relevant anecdotes.

However, what I can say (as the pollies have it) is that there is an estimated $7 billion in lost tax each year in NZ. Just sayin'.

[Sgt Pepper]

How do you know they don't pay tax? They are certainly not exempt from tax. Some crims think they have more chance of being caught by the IRD than the cops. Once potted for tax evasion the cops follow in, so they take the view that tax is money well spent. As I understand it if you make a voluntary tax payment or other declaration to the IRD, it remains confidential.

FP

Many years ago one of my Lecturers at University told our class about a rather unique system they had in force in either Manitoba or Quebec in Canada. If you thought someone was evading/avoiding tax you could report them to the Canadian Inland Revenue. If any tax debt was discovered the person reporting received 10% of the total. Apparently this was brutally effective.

[BlackPeter]

Does nobody remember this is the second bite of the "legal highs" solution under National?

More wasted tax dollars! Why didn't they get it right in the first place? .... As I've said before this National govt will be remembered for it mediocrity!

hmm - and actually not sure, whether they got it right this time either. The only way to really fix drug (incl. alcohol) problems is in my view not by making them illegal, but by appropriate education and using the market forces for the system (and not against). Keep substances legal (so you can monitor them and don't create markets for crooks), but educate the crowds and make them gradually more expensive.

Look at tobacco - I think this is a good example where they are on the right way. Ban of advertising, great education at schools and consistent reinforcement, but no real incentive for crooks to take over the market. Tobacco consumption is dropping.

On the other hand - what good was e.g. the (alcohol-) prohibition in the states? It just created a huge earning opportunity for gangs and other low life. Making drugs illegal is as good as breeding crooks. Political decisions driven by the media are rarely good. Shame on the media for taking the cheap shot without proper analysis, shame on Labour to make this an election football, and shame on National for falling into the trap.

[craic]

According to PD on todays news, he has spoken to his Irish Counterpart where they deeply regret a similar total ban. Whereas they had some control before, the whole thing, manufacture and distribution is now in the hands of gangsters and the problem is much bigger than before. The problem here and elsewhere is that the law is not harsh enough. Ask the Singaporeans how they would deal with it.

[craic]

Isnt it time for a new topic - poor old El Zorrow can hardly get a word in edgewise on this his own thread.

[artemis]

hmm - and actually not sure, whether they got it right this time either. The only way to really fix drug (incl. alcohol) problems is in my view not by making them illegal, but by appropriate education and using the market forces for the system (and not against). Keep substances legal (so you can monitor them and don't create markets for crooks), but educate the crowds and make them gradually more expensive. Look at tobacco - I think this is a good example where they are on the right way. Ban of advertising, great education at schools and consistent reinforcement, but no real incentive for crooks to take over the market. Tobacco consumption is dropping. On the other hand - what good was e.g. the (alcohol-) prohibition in the states? It just created a huge earning opportunity for gangs and other low life. Making drugs illegal is as good as breeding crooks. Political decisions driven by the media are rarely good. Shame on the media for taking the cheap shot without proper analysis, shame on Labour to make this an election football, and shame on National for falling into the trap.

Tobacco has had some fierce and well organised opponents, much funding by the government (ie us taxpayers) helped by a big push from the Maori party. However, on the whole the people deciding to smoke are the primary sufferers of the consequences. On the other hand, IMHO alcohol is a way bigger social problem which affects many many innocent people. Yet, we do not see the same general antipathy or taxpayer funding. Why is that? Why is one addictive substance more OK than another?

Campbell Live has had a real go at legal highs, with orchestrated appeals to the mass audience. Looks like Labour has hopped on an apparently populist bandwagon, and National has decided to take the wind from their sails in an election year. We are seeing increasing loosening up of drug enforcement around the world, as it is acknowledged that the 'war on drugs' is ineffective and a better approach is transparency. Not here though.

I am waiting to see CL take on alcohol, might be waiting a while though ....

BTW, my personal position is that government should lay down some basic safety rules (which probably already exist) then butt out.