If National wins ...

[Banksie]

Thanks for the debate leading up to the elections. I went into this one a lot better informed.

My preferred party didn't do as well as expected, and the result wasn't the one I wanted - but my electorate did quite well with 3 representatives in parliament.

Hopefully the lesson learnt from this election is to keep future ones cleaner, so we can focus on the issues instead of the sideshows.

[Sgt Pepper]

I have no doubt that National will be a four term govt. This was the tricky one for them, but the opposition is destroyed. It will take a term or two for Greens - Labour to sort themselves out. Winston will be in his zimmer frame. The only thing likely to arise and it's a big maybe, is some sort of Conservative party if they can drop some of their policies. Most likely they would not join Greens - Labour.
I really think Labour is in it's dying days - it needs to drop its Union connections and rebrand itself. The image it portrays is from a bygone era. Cunliffe made his biggest mistake when he declared 'The Labour I lead will be a RED Labour'.

from the Guardian after their massive defeat by Labour in 2002 UK election

"But the election debacle and Hague's decision to go will force the party to do some hard thinking, not just about its leadership but about its policies. The Tories appear to have lost touch with the mass support required to win an election.

RESOURCE Possible Tory leaders

Before the campaign began, Hague was criticised for jumping on too many short-term bandwagons in his efforts to please the media and land a blow on Labour. Once the campaign began, there was little consistency in the chosen targets day by day."


By 2009 they swept back into power. Be careful of premature obituaries

[fungus pudding]

Thanks for the debate leading up to the elections. I went into this one a lot better informed.

My preferred party didn't do as well as expected, and the result wasn't the one I wanted - but my electorate did quite well with 3 representatives in parliament.

Hopefully the lesson learnt from this election is to keep future ones cleaner, so we can focus on the issues instead of the sideshows.

Each electorate only has one MP. You can't have three.

[Banksie]

Each electorate only has one MP. You can't have three.

Only has one elected MP sure, but if the others make it through as list MPs?

[fungus pudding]

from the Guardian after their massive defeat by Labour in 2002 UK election

"But the election debacle and Hague's decision to go will force the party to do some hard thinking, not just about its leadership but about its policies. The Tories appear to have lost touch with the mass support required to win an election.

RESOURCE Possible Tory leaders

Before the campaign began, Hague was criticised for jumping on too many short-term bandwagons in his efforts to please the media and land a blow on Labour. Once the campaign began, there was little consistency in the chosen targets day by day."


By 2009 they swept back into power. Be careful of premature obituaries

The difference is Labour and the Greens spout different policies with neither strong enough to make absolute promises. e.g. top tax rate Labour 36% Greens 40%. Needs sorting out, which means a new amalgamated party or some agreed policy arrangement.

[Sgt Pepper]

The difference is Labour and the Greens spout different policies with neither strong enough to make absolute promises. e.g. top tax rate Labour 36% Greens 40%. Needs sorting out, which means a new amalgamated party or some agreed policy arrangement.

Thats true. There are some good things about not having a coalition government. National will not have to be coerced into partner pet projects which the poor old tax payer has to fund e.g the Constitutional Convention, Whanau Ora, the Family Commission (or whatever it was called) to name but a few.

[fungus pudding]

Only has one elected MP sure, but if the others make it through as list MPs?

I presume you mean by the others, that they reside in that electorate. Regardless - a list MP has no special duties or ties to any electorate, and in no way represents an electorate. You can bend the ear of any list MP no matter where you or they live.

[Banksie]

You can bend the ear of any list MP no matter where you or they live.

Ah..........

[westerly]

How I see it.

1) People in the center/right don't like David Cunliffe. They view him as divisive, arrogant, slimy and incompetent. Slimy and arrogant you might get away with, but not incompetent. He needs to go for Labour to have a chance (example writing the CGT policy then not even being able to answer questions on it before the election, people don't like that).

2) Labour needs to stop pandering to every minority group they can think of. They have alienated the 'average nzer' making them feel that there's nothing in it for them voting Labour. Example, David cunliffes speech at the Labour event last night. I got the impression he was about to announce a name change of the Labour party to the pacific island party there was such a strong theme with what he was saying and the pacific drums in the background. That's fine but the majority of nzers aren't pacific islanders and feel they're not represented. That's just one example but it's this constant social engineering that just annoys people. It's great if your a minimum wage earning pacific lesbian midget vegetarian (truely no offense at all intended to anyone) but the majority of nzers aren't.

I can't find the article on stuff now but Shearer and Cosgrove have come out saying exactly this. That the bulk of the policy is OK, just Labour are just out of touch with what people actually want.

You don't have to agree with this. You may think we'll it's Labour policy to represent these people so well stick with it and stand up for ourselves. That's fine but be prepared to do it as a minority party as proven by recent results.

el Z, ignore what Shearer and Cosgrove are saying at Labours peril!

Interesting how the Nat. supporters are all full of advice for Labour and the Greens. Interesting how the maybe orchestrated campaign to take every opportunity to run down Shearer and then Cunliffe is continuing. Focus on the man not the policies the dirty tricks were ongoing long before Hager. Re the first paragraph.
I am sure EZ is correct in his observations.
However it was obvious long before the election that Labour was struggling and Shearer and Cosgrove are correct in their reported comments that there is a need for Labour to connect with the average person. Robertson for that reason would not be a good choice as leader.
The Nats got 49% of the vote. 51% did not want them and a million did not vote, As they say we live in interesting times.

westerly

[fungus pudding]

Interesting how the Nat. supporters are all full of advice for Labour and the Greens. Interesting how the maybe orchestrated campaign to take every opportunity to run down Shearer and then Cunliffe is continuing. Focus on the man not the policies the dirty tricks were ongoing long before Hager. Re the first paragraph.
I am sure EZ is correct in his observations.
However it was obvious long before the election that Labour was struggling and Shearer and Cosgrove are correct in their reported comments that there is a need for Labour to connect with the average person. Robertson for that reason would not be a good choice as leader.
The Nats got 49% of the vote. 51% did not want them and a million did not vote, As they say we live in interesting times.

westerly

It's simplistic and probably inaccurate to say 51% of voters didn't want the winning party when there were seven parties whose votes counted. 49% is a massive endorsement, and I daresay the non-voters in the main do not vote because they're satisfied with the status quo. An unpopular govt. would bring a fair number out of the woodwork. Preferential voting would be interesting.