If National wins ...

[BlackPeter]

Those kids working for McDonalds don't vote so the minimum wage can stay low.
westerly

Maybe these kids are a bit more clever than the Left and the unions seem to be. They prefer to work for a competitive wage the Mc Donald's franchisee is able to pay, instead of being just another of these Labour made beneficiaries on the dole.

BTW - your "enemy" is not McDonalds ... they are all independent franchisees (EZ's SME's) - and if their wage bill goes thanks to people like you through the roof, than they will have to close down. Sound like a real Labour and union policy - kill the jobs! Just glad the New Zealand public is looking through your strategy.

[elZorro]

Maybe these kids are a bit more clever than the Left and the unions seem to be. They prefer to work for a competitive wage the Mc Donald's franchisee is able to pay, instead of being just another of these Labour made beneficiaries on the dole.

BTW - your "enemy" is not McDonalds ... they are all independent franchisees (EZ's SME's) - and if their wage bill goes thanks to people like you through the roof, than they will have to close down. Sound like a real Labour and union policy - kill the jobs! Just glad the New Zealand public is looking through your strategy.

BP, not sure if there is any correlation of the minimum wage rate with a drop in job opportunities. After all, Labour managed to increase the minimum wage from $7 to $12 per hour in their last three terms. They also achieved a record low unemployment rate while paying off old debt using steadily increasing tax revenue. That's a 71% increase in the minimum wage rate, nearly 9% increase a year. Since then, National has seen the effects of the GFC and lower interest rates, maybe lower inflation now but it's peaky. The minimum wage has gone up under National by 19% to $14.25 per hour, a more modest 3% a year (just enough to match inflation in the CPI). But unemployment has increased. Investment has flowed out of the business sector and stayed out, but it wasn't the fault of wages, that's obvious. It was piling into the same sector while Labour was in power and wages were on the increase. It's probably the result of a combination of the GFC, and National's policy settings. One of those factors can't be changed.

http://www.dol.govt.nz/er/pay/minimu...ousminimum.asp

[slimwin]

So it's gone up ahead of inflation over what labour thought was acceptable?

[elZorro]

So it's gone up ahead of inflation over what labour thought was acceptable?

No, I think the point would be that National has done the very least it could with the minimum wage, and that Labour and others consider that a more suitable minimum wage for an adult with dependents, is more like $18 an hour. There is no denying that there are still working poor in NZ.

[BlackPeter]

No, I think the point would be that National has done the very least it could with the minimum wage, and that Labour and others consider that a more suitable minimum wage for an adult with dependents, is more like $18 an hour. There is no denying that there are still working poor in NZ.

Sure - and a much more labour friendly minimum wage would be $50 per hour. This way we could make sure no viable business left in NZ and Labour could govern the flock of beneficiaries they are working hard to create. But hold on ... who would pay the taxes to allow Labour to pay out the benefits?

Stupid.

[BlackPeter]

BP, not sure if there is any correlation of the minimum wage rate with a drop in job opportunities.

Just have a trip to e.g. Central Europe. i was recently in Germany - they do have somewhat higher wages as well as a higher unemployment rate. They have as well significantly less of the low paid service jobs NZ tends to feature (like forecourt attendants and e.g. trolley collectors in the supermarket). Just check with these people back here in NZ whether they really all want to go on the dole, courtesy to unions and Labour. Ahh - and check with the finance guys in your party (if there are any talented people left) who would pay here for all the additional unemployed you are going to create.

[BlackPeter]

Labour managed to increase the minimum wage from $7 to $12 per hour in their last three terms.

Interesting you would say that - so they managed to increase the minimum wage by 71%.

Just checked for the house price inflation during the last Labour government (just remembered the both of you always whining about the bad National government).

The NZ house price index went from Q4 1999 to Q4 2008 from 683 to 1383. This is an increase of 102.5%. If you are looking for the data - they are here:

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/k...prices_values/

This means that house prices increased during the Labour reign much more than the minimum wage (and inflation). Now this is bad! Shame on Labour for doing such a ridiculous job and shame on anybody who tries to sell this as success!

The more the both of you talk the less clothes the Labour emperor seems to wear. Be careful - not sure, whether I want to be responsible for people realising that Labour is actually naked. No substance, no leadership, no integrity, no talent and no truth. Pity.

[winner69]

Has Labour become a laughing stock trading on past glories rightly despised and mocked by all who aren’t members of the tribe/party.

Even so even old 'laughing stock' brands have some value and, with the proper/sane management it can be revived. In Labour’s case that means Newco Labour must also, at last, be New Labour.

They need to frame the next election as a National vs Labour contest. Make Nats a hated party. If you hate the Nats it will be best to vote Labour. Even if you don’t much like Labour.

Whose going to manage that?

[elZorro]

Interesting you would say that - so they managed to increase the minimum wage by 71%.

Just checked for the house price inflation during the last Labour government (just remembered the both of you always whining about the bad National government).

The NZ house price index went from Q4 1999 to Q4 2008 from 683 to 1383. This is an increase of 102.5%. If you are looking for the data - they are here:

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/k...prices_values/

This means that house prices increased during the Labour reign much more than the minimum wage (and inflation). Now this is bad! Shame on Labour for doing such a ridiculous job and shame on anybody who tries to sell this as success!

The more the both of you talk the less clothes the Labour emperor seems to wear. Be careful - not sure, whether I want to be responsible for people realising that Labour is actually naked. No substance, no leadership, no integrity, no talent and no truth. Pity.

BP: That's only part of the picture, of course. The minimum wage went up nearly as much as house prices, more were employed, so could at least be part of that more rapid house price inflation in the 2000's. The banks were the ones that were fuelling the situation, not Labour. I note that NZ's house price inflation rate is now nearly the same as it was under Labour. That's also bad, right? Even with the controls in place. Only this time, the stagnant minimum wage is keeping most people off the starting rungs of the property ladder, if they live in the main centres.

Since many SMEs use the value of their homes to borrow against for business capital, having a period where that capital has increased, may help businesses get started. I know it helped me. So it's not all bad. I just can't see how you think that National is good for the country, when they watched while 42000 manufacturing jobs disappeared. Why is that not at the top of their radar?

Do you have any ideas about fixing that, or will the market do it, do you think? (Loaded question).

[BlackPeter]

Has Labour become a laughing stock trading on past glories rightly despised and mocked by all who aren’t members of the tribe/party.

Even so even old 'laughing stock' brands have some value and, with the proper/sane management it can be revived. In Labour’s case that means Newco Labour must also, at last, be New Labour.

They need to frame the next election as a National vs Labour contest. Make Nats a hated party. If you hate the Nats it will be best to vote Labour. Even if you don’t much like Labour.

Whose going to manage that?

Actually - I agree that a strong party at the centre / left would be good for New Zealand, no matter whether they make it into government or not. Just having the option would be good. However not sure, whether today's Labour Party is up to the job. They managed to alienated most of their remaining talent (think Shearer or Shane Jones) and are driven by a disparate bunch of ego's who at best try to promote yesterdays recipes to solve tomorrows problems. I realize that there are still some good people working for Labour (e.g. Kelvin Davis, maybe a handful others ... don't know all of the young one's), but the good ones I am aware of had to fight for themselves with little support by the fundamentalists trying to stifle the party.

Winner, I do realise that your proposal to seed hate is just meant in good humour, but you need to be careful: Some of the Labour brass might be that desperate that they take it up and manage to completely run their party into the ground. Don't forget, the Left tried to seed the hate message already in the last election, just remember "characters" like Hager, Harre and DotCom doing their thing. Now - where did this strategy leave them?