If National wins ...

[Daytr]

El Zorro, I would suggest there is a lot of disillusionment within youth in regards what is being done to protect the environment & also in regards the greed we have seen generated out of the likes of Wall St. In the 60s & 70s we had the peace & love generation who were written off as drug smoking hippies & maybe they were, but they also had a point in regards Vietnam etc. What I am seeing is a real backlash from the 20 somethings against the baby boomer generation in regards what have they done in what was considered boom times to look after future generalizations & even fund their own retirements. There are sweeping generalizations, but I think they are there. There are some that have the view, that if we don't get it right in regards climate change, virtually all else doesn't really matter, such will be the impact. Gareth Morgan I think raises a very good point that the environment should not be a left issue, as it impacts us all & it should be addressed by both sides of the political spectrum. Unfortunately however its really just the Green party that has a strong environmental agenda, however with the Greens you get a lot of other policy that many can't stomach, so the environment doesn't win. Morgan would like to see a Blue/Green party. Personally I would like to see a centrist/Green party, however I wouldn't quibble too much as long as environmental issues are being addressed in a much more effective & progressive manner.

[elZorro]

El Zorro, I would suggest there is a lot of disillusionment within youth in regards what is being done to protect the environment & also in regards the greed we have seen generated out of the likes of Wall St. In the 60s & 70s we had the peace & love generation who were written off as drug smoking hippies & maybe they were, but they also had a point in regards Vietnam etc. What I am seeing is a real backlash from the 20 somethings against the baby boomer generation in regards what have they done in what was considered boom times to look after future generalizations & even fund their own retirements. There are sweeping generalizations, but I think they are there. There are some that have the view, that if we don't get it right in regards climate change, virtually all else doesn't really matter, such will be the impact. Gareth Morgan I think raises a very good point that the environment should not be a left issue, as it impacts us all & it should be addressed by both sides of the political spectrum. Unfortunately however its really just the Green party that has a strong environmental agenda, however with the Greens you get a lot of other policy that many can't stomach, so the environment doesn't win. Morgan would like to see a Blue/Green party. Personally I would like to see a centrist/Green party, however I wouldn't quibble too much as long as environmental issues are being addressed in a much more effective & progressive manner.

I quite agree, Daytr, a Centrist Green party would appeal, and maybe Labour is trying for that space too. Anyone looking into climate change will see that there are drastic moves required, and maybe some Greens have the notion that to bring about any change, their policies will need to be quite left of centre. But as Helen Clark (and John Key, unfortunately) showed, small incremental changes can add up to bigger moves for a party in office.

[craic]

The other night I watched a programme called, I think, In the path/footsteps of Alexander (The Great) The person doing the journey pointed out the route taken by boats through seas and waterways that no longer exist. All this is academic but he was talking of dozens of metres of water that covered the area in that civilisation and even the worst climate change predictions could not match the situation then. And please don't say that that was just in North Africa or the East or whatever - water finds its own level - if the sea rises 20 metres in the Atlantic it will rise the same amount here and everywhere else. It has been going up and down since the beginning of time. Like the Labour Party?

[winner69]

EZ, its a long weekend so here's something to read
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2015/0...r-the-insiders

The gist. It's not about left or right. It's about the self interests (preservation) of those with influence.

To whet your appetite a little bit

Now that is all conveniently forgotten, and the entire European mainstream is lining up to destroy Syriza and say to their own electorates: “Look, if you vote for non-conventional parties, see what will happen to you.”

Because we are now in an electoral cycle, the conventional parties need to crush Syriza to crush the other nonconformist parties and show their own electorates what voting in a nonconformist way leads to.

[Daytr]

Your point is climate change happens naturally & I don't think anyone would argue that. However I think its very hard to say that man's activity of deforestation, carbon emissions & ocean depletion, to name a few, is adding constantly to any natural change & what man made climate change adds to the equation is a constant increase in one direction, where as in nature you have fluctuations. Sea levels have been much higher in the past, however we didn't have 7Bln plus people to feed or massive coastal cities that would have been underwater if they existed in those times. Its the constant accumulative effect of human activity that's the problem.

The other night I watched a programme called, I think, In the path/footsteps of Alexander (The Great) The person doing the journey pointed out the route taken by boats through seas and waterways that no longer exist. All this is academic but he was talking of dozens of metres of water that covered the area in that civilisation and even the worst climate change predictions could not match the situation then. And please don't say that that was just in North Africa or the East or whatever - water finds its own level - if the sea rises 20 metres in the Atlantic it will rise the same amount here and everywhere else. It has been going up and down since the beginning of time. Like the Labour Party?

[craic]

If humans get it wrong then nature corrects by by getting rid of humans or most of them. Now I know that this is heresy to those who see humans as a special form, beyond all the other forms. This is nonsense or at least arrogance. Think about it this way - sometime in the next few days there will be a bang, so sudden that none will hear it and all life forms on this planet will be instantly destroyed - would this bother you? I think it would be a great idea - nothing to worry about for anyone, forever.

[Daytr]

Well no, but put it another way Craic. If you knew it was coming and there were things that could be done to avoid the catastrophe then you would, wouldn't you. What you describe is that ignorance is bliss. I agree we are just another animal or life form, but the main difference being we are the dominant species & our devastating activity is impacting all other life on the planet in a very rapid way. If you look at the time that humankind has been around compared to how long it has taken life to evolve to this point, we are destroy what has taken 100s of millions of years if not billions in the blink of an eye. Sure it may recover again, but it will take far longer to recover than I has to destroy & probably multiples & multiples thereof. Personally I would rather just try & adapt to protect it.

[craic]

Protect what - another bunch of Lundys and Bains? This is composed with a fair quantity of Bourbon on the rocks - not a drop of coke anywhere. And my biggest decision is how much to bet on Noel Harris Tomorrow in the big race, the final race of his illustrious career as a jockey. I might go mad on this one if the odds are reasonable.

[craic]

Well, sober as a judge so only $10 each way on No 10, Pondarosa Miss in the 8th at 4.25pm but a backstop of $10 each way on Atacama in the same race. Also $10 each way on chop Chop in the eight race at Hastings.So I stand to lose $60 on the day.

[BlackPeter]

Actually - there is a separate thread on climate change ... might make sense to move the relevant bits of the discussion over there: http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthr...l-Warming-quot

Not sure about Craic's horse races, though - I guess the people coming to the races (and using vehicles with combustion engines to get there) would contribute to global warming - wouldn't they?