If National wins ...

[Sgt Pepper]

I am surprised they managed to scrape together 25.5% support in the Roy Morgan poll. Obviously some diehard Labour supporters like EZ out there.
And the much talked about backlash from Northland doesn't seem to have affected National, up to 54%

Iceman

Well I am a Labour Party voter. As for people who strangely cant see John Key for what he really is I think this quotation is appropriate.

“When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but with creatures bristling with prejudice and motivated by pride and vanity.”
― Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People

[elZorro]

I am surprised they managed to scrape together 25.5% support in the Roy Morgan poll. Obviously some diehard Labour supporters like EZ out there.
And the much talked about backlash from Northland doesn't seem to have affected National, up to 54%

This was a poll of under 1,000 NZers, by landline and cellular, I'll give them that, but the error in the 54% is about +/- 3.4% according to their table. Still high, and well higher than the last poll for National. Don't forget that this was done before the budget.

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/62...5-201505250727

I think this post on YOURNZ is interesting, minus the typos. He'd be more believable if he could just spellcheck.

http://yournz.org/2015/05/26/woe-is-mickysavage/

I agree with both their comments here. Labour is being outsmarted in the media, they are not spending enough, either in effort, or in cash. Nothing wrong with their policies in general, those are good.

[Sgt Pepper]

OK, W69, as it happens I was at Mission Bay, Auck, in the weekend and parked in view of a sign that said "Memorial to Michael Joseph Savage". As you probably guessed, I couldn't resist going to have a look at this structure, and it was more impressive than I would have thought. I was looking hard for fellow Labour voters, but the weather was a bit blustery. It would be fantastic on a good day. No doubt the Council looks after all this area, but it was built, paid for, by the Labour Party and its members. I thought that if they did all this, back in the 1940s, why are we having so much trouble getting things going today? I think since Helen Clark and Michael Cullen left, they lost a bit of confidence.

Why do I help Labour if I can? They do have ideas that will build the economy, build the tax base fairly, get people employed, make our exports smarter, more quickly. This would help pay for your super. Dr Cullen also knew what would help pay for it, a massive fund. It would be helpful if new contributions went into it. Maybe after the next crash?

I have a lot of respect for your views W69, so I've taken that on board..cheers.

EZ
Good post and my sentiments exactly. Debating on these posts can be challenging because if you rebut the National supporters with any hard facts which contradict their prejudices concerning Labour they simply ignore it. They have this political myopia, almost childlike illusion that John Key is some kind of benign political and economic genius with a bold robust plan for the future. Genius? he certainly aint, robust plans? haven't seen any.

[craic]

Years ago we paid a social security tax with our income tax that was a defined amount, measureable to pay for super etc. Then along came the nice man with his idea that the two taxes should be combined. He assured us that it would save a lot of money and "don't worry you will still get your pension". That promise was quickly forgotten by successive government who consider that ALL tax is theirs to promote whatever policy will polish their halo and promote their chances ast the next election. Now in those days I was a public servant paying into govt. Super. Along came a private scheme that seemed to be a much better deal. I did the maths and found that the govt. scheme was very good - for the govt. Now somebody - was it you elZ? that in 2020something the super payout will be half of todays entire tax take? Well I hate to tell you but the tax take in 2020 whatever will probably be several times what it is today. I met Dr Cullen one day and had a conversation with him and came to the conclusion that he was a self-serving cretin. As described by Dale Carnegie in the next post!

[iceman]

Iceman

Well I am a Labour Party voter. As for people who strangely cant see John Key for what he really is I think this quotation is appropriate.

“When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but with creatures bristling with prejudice and motivated by pride and vanity.”
― Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People

You are talking about over half the voting public of NZ. Do you think that maybe Labour's attitude (and their staunch supporter's) that they are right and the voters are wrong wears rather thin with the majority, hence their low standing in recent elections and polls ?

[Sgt Pepper]

You are talking about over half the voting public of NZ. Do you think that maybe Labour's attitude (and their staunch supporter's) that they are right and the voters are wrong wears rather thin with the majority, hence their low standing in recent elections and polls ?

Iceman
reF "over half the voting public"

I checked the Elections NZ Website.
52.96% of voters voted for parties other than National. National has never had a majority of the popular vote since 1950.It is best to leave claims of overwhelming majorities to Kim Jong-un

[stanace]

It is really not worth while trying to convince someone if they are biased about something, but looking at that quote from Carnegie, by a Labour Party voter, suggesting it refers to John Key, is the biggest piece of hypocrisy I have seen for a while.
Turn it round and use it to look at, not the Labour leader, but the Labour Party.
While do people like John Key? Forget the policies, he appears to be a nice guy, he doesn't lose his temper even when being continually interrupted, see the John Campell interview, he has a reasonable group of people surrounding him, the policies are reasonable, and when they make mistakes they sometimes admit it, or change the policies.
Sure he has made a couple of mistakes recently, IMHO, the Sabin stuff up, and not putting Collins back in caucus, but look at the Labour side.
First Shearer resigns, saying he did not have the confidence of his Caucus, really, well the Caucus had no idea who they wanted in his place, so that doesn't make them look very smart, then the unions make sure Cunliffe gets in, that doesn't work, so they "elect" someone who can't convince his electorate that he should represent them, and he want to rule the country!!, and he really is an Angry man.
Try and look at this without voting, just think about what a man from Mars would think, do I really want these idiots trying to run the country, they can't run their party.
You may be a Labour Party voter, but only because you want to be, not because you think it is a good idea.

[Sgt Pepper]

It is really not worth while trying to convince someone if they are biased about something, but looking at that quote from Carnegie, by a Labour Party voter, suggesting it refers to John Key, is the biggest piece of hypocrisy I have seen for a while.
Turn it round and use it to look at, not the Labour leader, but the Labour Party.
While do people like John Key? Forget the policies, he appears to be a nice guy, he doesn't lose his temper even when being continually interrupted, see the John Campell interview, he has a reasonable group of people surrounding him, the policies are reasonable, and when they make mistakes they sometimes admit it, or change the policies.
Sure he has made a couple of mistakes recently, IMHO, the Sabin stuff up, and not putting Collins back in caucus, but look at the Labour side.
First Shearer resigns, saying he did not have the confidence of his Caucus, really, well the Caucus had no idea who they wanted in his place, so that doesn't make them look very smart, then the unions make sure Cunliffe gets in, that doesn't work, so they "elect" someone who can't convince his electorate that he should represent them, and he want to rule the country!!, and he really is an Angry man.
Try and look at this without voting, just think about what a man from Mars would think, do I really want these idiots trying to run the country, they can't run their party.
You may be a Labour Party voter, but only because you want to be, not because you think it is a good idea.

Stanace thanks for your response

First of all I am a Labour Party voter primarily because I do think its a good idea. Why? generally social democrat governments perform better than others. No doubt you would disagree with me on that one. On a personal note my two siblings and my best friend are all National Party voters. The best boss I ever worked for was an official in the National Party. I guess what I am trying to say, probably rather clumsily, is that I am not some kind of rabid, blinkered leftie.
Regarding John Key. I simply don't trust the man. I recall seeing an item on TV during the 2002 election, way before his political career took of and instinctively didn't warm to him.
I , and many others have real reservations concerning his propensity to be , shall we say , economical with the truth.
He lied about his Tranz Rail share holding. He gave a cast iron guarantee he would not raise GST. He actively undermined Bill English when he was leader of the National Party. I simply don't believe he didn't know what Jason Eade was up to.
I place a high value on integrity and trust and I am afraid John Key falls way short.

[elZorro]

Stanace thanks for your response

First of all I am a Labour Party voter primarily because I do think its a good idea. Why? generally social democrat governments perform better than others. No doubt you would disagree with me on that one. On a personal note my two siblings and my best friend are all National Party voters. The best boss I ever worked for was an official in the National Party. I guess what I am trying to say, probably rather clumsily, is that I am not some kind of rabid, blinkered leftie.
Regarding John Key. I simply don't trust the man. I recall seeing an item on TV during the 2002 election, way before his political career took of and instinctively didn't warm to him.
I , and many others have real reservations concerning his propensity to be , shall we say , economical with the truth.
He lied about his Tranz Rail share holding. He gave a cast iron guarantee he would not raise GST. He actively undermined Bill English when he was leader of the National Party. I simply don't believe he didn't know what Jason Eade was up to.
I place a high value on integrity and trust and I am afraid John Key falls way short.

I agree, Sgt Pepper.

Just saw this about the property market, MPOs are very actively buying properties in the bottom 30% of the Auckland market.

http://www.landlords.co.nz/article/5...ay+26+May+2015

[Major von Tempsky]

But Labour Parties are not Social Democrat Parties. Labour Parties are stuck with 19th/early 20th century entanglements with unions and socialist left wing ideology and class warfare and class hatred. Social Democrats have shed this smell from the past and relate to the present and future. Don't claim what doesn't belong to you, Labour supporters. The Social Democrats of Germany have twice gone into a constructive Grand Coalition with the Christian Democrats for the sake of responsible government in Germany. Can anyone imagine the Labour Party of NZ doing that with the National Party of NZ? No, pigs would fly first. The equivalent parties in Greece did the same thing until the Greece voters were seized by a moment of madness and voted socialist Syriza in.