If National wins ...

[Sgt Pepper]

Whatever happened to Andrea Vance in the Sunday Star Times? Not that I miss her invariably hysterical left wing diatribe but she has been gone for 2 consecutive weekends. Did I miss a small announcement somewhere? Has Peter Dunne swept her off her feet?

Major
she is, I believe at Oxford University, she received a Sir Woolf Fisher scholarship. Clever people left wing journalists. .

[Daytr]

Craic, there are certainly people who will try & buy there way in illegally who are not legitimate refugees, some of them maybe criminals, a lot are probably desperate people looking for a better life and some will be evading persecution. I can guarantee you that the majority aren't 1) greasy or 2) drug dealers. The people being smuggled on boats should be dealt with humanely & efficiently & that doesn't mean granting them residency without verifying that they are a legitimate refugee. As I have said before NZ & Australia are both wealthy countries & its a disgrace to treat people in this matter. Not that NZ directly is, that we know of, however Key was very 'political' in response saying he can see both sides of the argument. There is no other side that is 1) moral or 2) legal. Paying criminals to take the people back is hardly a disincentive, hell its more profitable for the criminals who deal in desperate people's misery or as you say perhaps trying to smuggle criminals.

NZ is in a very fortunate position that we don't have boat people on our boarders & I hope that never becomes the case for the main reason as many would die due to the seas they would have to cross, compared to the relatively sheltered waters of the Java sea. So NZ is in a position to be generous as they are not having to be pressured into dealing with illegal immigrants in boats & we have policy in regards numbers that we could increase as the Greens are current advocating. Its not like National doesn't want immigration, in fact they are depending on it, so perhaps instead of people qualifying on the basis of their wealth we could be more open to taking in more refugees. We did so after WWII, also Vietnamese & Cambodians. The world is facing the biggest refugee crisis since WWII & we need to play our small part in setting an example to other countries.

As a fit healthy Irishman with an excellent work record, solvent and with a reasonable command of the English language, I am not allowed to live or work in Australia, in spite of the contribution my countrymen made to the establishment of that land. I am welcome to come and stay there for a week or two most years but I always leave on the approved date. A greasy little drug dealer from SouthEast Asia can pay his way onto a boat and turn up there and humanitarians, or mugs, will defend his right to be there. And the Bastards who took the money, and provided the boat will be able to change into refugees at the last minute and want to be Australians. If the Australian govt. have found that the cheapest way to stop this trade is set a thief to catch a thief, then good on them. Maybe those who are sent back will turn on the profiteers andd throw them overboard.

[Daytr]

Good to see the trade in swamp kauri getting more publicity and political debate. The MPI has turned a blind eye to obvious flouting of the law in regards the export of kauri logs & large slabs being finished product. This is a natural resource that is being plundered by a few & breaking the already flimsy law around its export under the glazed eye of the MPI. Oravida again at the center of things as well. Does this explain the MPI's lack of integrity & policing of this trade?
As a natural resource that has been preserved for 10s of thousands of years & is likely to only go up in value over time, it needs to be protected. The best value should be extracted from the industry and that its not just lining the pockets of a few. There is very little regulation around the environmental damage of extraction or the product itself & we should ensure NZ benefits far more than it currently does. This is a province that is crying out for jobs & here is a resource that we could be using to create a lot of jobs.
If National still held the Northland seat I can't imagine this issue getting any traction at all, in fact it didn't for all the time they did hold the electorate.

[craic]

Firstly I did not say that all were "greasy" or "drug dealers". But after many trips to SE Asia, I can assure you that if there are places in a boat at a price, it will not be the poor and the needy at the front of the queue. Most of them don't have the price price of their next meal.Possibly the better way to increase the population[would be the way I was dealt with when I phoned immigration to tell them that I was an illegal immigrant and wanted to sort my status out.
First reply over the phone "but your"e British"
"No i'm not, I"m Irish.
Second reply, "Oh we regard that as British and you are entitled to be here. We are not interested in how you got here."
We could fill the place with multi-coloured Poms in no time flat and that would put the Asians off
QUOTE=Daytr;576739]Craic, there are certainly people who will try & buy there way in illegally who are not legitimate refugees, some of them maybe criminals, a lot are probably desperate people looking for a better life and some will be evading persecution. I can guarantee you that the majority aren't 1) greasy or 2) drug dealers. The people being smuggled on boats should be dealt with humanely & efficiently & that doesn't mean granting them residency without verifying that they are a legitimate refugee. As I have said before NZ & Australia are both wealthy countries & its a disgrace to treat people in this matter. Not that NZ directly is, that we know of, however Key was very 'political' in response saying he can see both sides of the argument. There is no other side that is 1) moral or 2) legal. Paying criminals to take the people back is hardly a disincentive, hell its more profitable for the criminals who deal in desperate people's misery or as you say perhaps trying to smuggle criminals.

NZ is in a very fortunate position that we don't have boat people on our boarders & I hope that never becomes the case for the main reason as many would die due to the seas they would have to cross, compared to the relatively sheltered waters of the Java sea. So NZ is in a position to be generous as they are not having to be pressured into dealing with illegal immigrants in boats & we have policy in regards numbers that we could increase as the Greens are current advocating. Its not like National doesn't want immigration, in fact they are depending on it, so perhaps instead of people qualifying on the basis of their wealth we could be more open to taking in more refugees. We did so after WWII, also Vietnamese & Cambodians. The world is facing the biggest refugee crisis since WWII & we need to play our small part in setting an example to other countries.[/QUOTE]

[craic]

It has been tried before. Don't you remember the flood of swamp Kauri logs that were converted into clocks,covered in shiny varnish, that filled the walls of "craft" shops all over the country in the sixties, seventies and eighties? The appear in clearance auctions of junk, regularly and usuall fetch $5 to$10 for the box lot. There were odd coffee tables but most were overpriced. The other factor is that air conditioning and central heating works wonders on this material. Just ask a major museum about preserving stuff that has been waterlogged for a century or two.

[Daytr]

Well the Chinese obviously value the stuff as they are paying millions for it.
So I'm not suggesting we make furniture for the domestic market but tap into what the likes of the Chinese are using it for.
Reportedly coffins are a big use for ancient kauri & I doubt they are using massive kauri slab in its exported state for that.
But obviously table tops & I mean finished not again just slab as it is being exported as.
As usual you completely down play the argument in regards the potential for kauri & most of this stuff is thousands of years old & some over 100 thousand years old & its not water logged its preserved.

[Daytr]

I didn't say you did, but this is the example you were using. So you have first hand knowledge of boat smugglers do you? I have visited south east Asia on multiple occasions as well & I would have no idea on how to get on a smugglers boat. Do you? If so how do you? I'm not saying you aren't right as I'm sure people smugglers will take anyone's money, but I do doubt your first hand knowledge of its as you claim. This also underpins why the Australian government shouldn't be paying criminals i.e. people smugglers.

So let me get this straight you were an illegal immigrant, I assume overstaying a tourist visa or the like & you put your hand up.
Your comment, we don't care how you got here. Well now obviously they do care.
What is the difference between them turning up & doing the same? They aren't trying to stay in Australia illegally they want to try gain residency by being processed, they know they just couldn't apply through the normal channels as they would never be granted a hearing.
And when I say you process them, they in no way are just granted residency but are granted residency on the merits of their case or sent back and not via a people smugglers boat.

Firstly I did not say that all were "greasy" or "drug dealers". But after many trips to SE Asia, I can assure you that if there are places in a boat at a price, it will not be the poor and the needy at the front of the queue. Most of them don't have the price price of their next meal.Possibly the better way to increase the population[would be the way I was dealt with when I phoned immigration to tell them that I was an illegal immigrant and wanted to sort my status out.
First reply over the phone "but your"e British"
"No i'm not, I"m Irish.
Second reply, "Oh we regard that as British and you are entitled to be here. We are not interested in how you got here."
We could fill the place with multi-coloured Poms in no time flat and that would put the Asians off
QUOTE=Daytr;576739]Craic, there are certainly people who will try & buy there way in illegally who are not legitimate refugees, some of them maybe criminals, a lot are probably desperate people looking for a better life and some will be evading persecution. I can guarantee you that the majority aren't 1) greasy or 2) drug dealers. The people being smuggled on boats should be dealt with humanely & efficiently & that doesn't mean granting them residency without verifying that they are a legitimate refugee. As I have said before NZ & Australia are both wealthy countries & its a disgrace to treat people in this matter. Not that NZ directly is, that we know of, however Key was very 'political' in response saying he can see both sides of the argument. There is no other side that is 1) moral or 2) legal. Paying criminals to take the people back is hardly a disincentive, hell its more profitable for the criminals who deal in desperate people's misery or as you say perhaps trying to smuggle criminals.

NZ is in a very fortunate position that we don't have boat people on our boarders & I hope that never becomes the case for the main reason as many would die due to the seas they would have to cross, compared to the relatively sheltered waters of the Java sea. So NZ is in a position to be generous as they are not having to be pressured into dealing with illegal immigrants in boats & we have policy in regards numbers that we could increase as the Greens are current advocating. Its not like National doesn't want immigration, in fact they are depending on it, so perhaps instead of people qualifying on the basis of their wealth we could be more open to taking in more refugees. We did so after WWII, also Vietnamese & Cambodians. The world is facing the biggest refugee crisis since WWII & we need to play our small part in setting an example to other countries.

[/QUOTE]

[craic]

As usual you are right - always. That you changed what I said to suit your argument - I wasn't a tourist - I was a ringbolter - but that doesn't matter. My wife was right this morning - "wasting your time on that Bloody computer" she didn't know it but wasting my time on the Left Wing Mutual Admiration Society was even worse - have a nice day

[Daytr]

Haha, ok Craic, finally we are in agreement, re wasting your time. ;-)

[elZorro]

W69, I can't see much about cartoonists on the web (now only one cartoonist per provincial paper?), but there are plenty of other Fairfax jobs being restructured.

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/unio...set-go-6324764