If National wins ...

[blackcap]

A prison run by SERCO one of the targeted providers for other government services. Prisoners having a organized fight club, smoking dope, drinking alcohol

Happens in all prisons in NZ be they Serco run or not. Nothing really shocking at all for mine. Just as bad if not worse at Rimutaka, Christchurch Mens etc.

[Daytr]

BP its funny different perspectives people have. I wouldn't say I was complaining at all, I was suggesting that your claims lacked validity & posting over & over wasn't going to make them any more valid. Nice cheap personal shot though, speaking of the Greek...

re the prisons, so you are uncomfortable with corporatizing the prison service by the sounds. How do you defend things like corporatizing social housing & mental health? It is equally if not more immoral in my opinion corporatizing those services than prisons, although I think they are of a similar ilk.

Blackcap, I would suggest all prisons have their issues, however I'm not sure to the same scale that we have recently been made aware of at Mt Eden. And if they are, crack down on all of them. I am all for rehabilitation, but rampant use of dope, alcohol & if indeed this violent practice of dropping prisoners does exist as I suspect it does, then that obviously requires investigation, including the death of the prisoner that Kelvin Davis has highlighted. If his allegations are true, this could be a case of negligence causing death. Pretty damn serious stuff in my book.

Wow "we of NZF" - says it all, really. And another three posts in a row from somebody complaining about me posting too much about Labours shame. There is a nice Greek word for people like that. Hint - it starts with "hypo" and ends with "crite".

Anyway - everybody to their own style ... and hey - there are as well some areas we do agree on. Not sure whether we have already enough data to assess Kevin Davis' latest story around the SERCO run Mount Eden prison, but it clearly does not sound good.

Independently of SERCO's performance problems and MoC's alleged attempts to brush them under the carpet ... I feel quite uncomfortable with the attempt to commercialise the states monopoly of violence (and nothing else is a private company running a prison). All services licenced to exercise violence (like police, army and correction facilities) need to be under direct state supervision. Outsourcing these "services" opens up huge conflicts of interest - of them the desire to make money (by locking people up for along time) vs rehabilitating prisoners (and losing the money stream) being just one of them.

[Daytr]

[QUOTE=BlackPeter;582441]Wow "we of NZF" - says it all, really.

Says what? That I'm a centrist? Then yes that's correct, as I see NZF as the closest thing to a centrist party in NZ.
Coming from an ACT supporter I would say your comment is a bit rich.
I don't think Winston or NZF are perfect, but I think have the average NZers interest at heart & at least NZF easily reached the minimum 5% threshold. What did ACT poll? 0.7% and most of that was given to them by National in Epsom. LOL

If you can't see the future, I'll paint a picture for you. Noticed that Labour & NZFs policies are starting to align?
I heard Little on NZR this morning affirming views today espoused by Winston Peters.
A coalition of Labour & NZF is on the cards in 2017, something that John Key would & should be very worried about.
But he's a smart guy, perhaps he will stand down & let some other mug take the electoral hit in 2017?
I hope he doesn't, I hope he gets voted out

[BlackPeter]

[QUOTE=Daytr;582484]

Wow "we of NZF" - says it all, really.

Says what? That I'm a centrist?

It is o.k, daytr ... most people consider themselves as "centre", given that there are always some people to the left and some to the right. Its just human ... same as you preference to dish out, however very sensitive if somebody comes back. Must have been fun to go with somebody like you to school.

[craic]

Agree entirely. Thirty years of in and out of many prisons leaves me in no doubt that prisons have not changed much in that time, private or otherwise. Greatest cock-up I knew of was a new prison in area with a strong Maori population. A bright gentleman, this time from the left of the political spectrum felt that that there would be a positive result if some weight was given to local Maori prison staff rather than the usual mishmash of officers from all directions. They forgot about the meaning of Whanau. "I want" could be accompanied by the information "your brother #### was on that Burglary/robbery, with us, Didn't you know"? As well as the odd prompt from a Kaumatua on the Marae. It took a bit of sorting out.
This post was a reply to blackcap 8264, this morning. Too much rum still in my system and I forgot to push the post button. But a few hours on the axe and chainsaw have cleared everythingand today and tomorrow are alcohol-free days. Will allow me to concentrate on my horses for Saturday. Winston Peters? Wasn't he the fellow who wanted to be a jockey when he grew up?

[BlackPeter]

[QUOTE=Daytr;582484]

I don't think Winston or NZF are perfect, but I think have the average NZers interest at heart & at least NZF easily reached the minimum 5% threshold. What did ACT poll? 0.7% and most of that was given to them by National in Epsom. LOL

If you can't see the future, I'll paint a picture for you. Noticed that Labour & NZFs policies are starting to align?
I heard Little on NZR this morning affirming views today espoused by Winston Peters.
A coalition of Labour & NZF is on the cards in 2017, something that John Key would & should be very worried about.
But he's a smart guy, perhaps he will stand down & let some other mug take the electoral hit in 2017?
I hope he doesn't, I hope he gets voted out

Little & Peters - sounds like a marriage made in heaven ... two populists in one bed fighting for the same blanket (redneck electorate) - how is this supposed to work? On the other hand, Winston knows his trade ... i.e. I assume Andrew would take the house husband role in this relationship and leave the politics to Winston.

Just out of interest - how do our resident Labour supporters see this relationship working out? Anyway, I am sure it would have lots of entertainment value.

Re your comparison between NZF and ACT ... true - you are certainly supporting the party which got last time more votes - but if that's what is important for you, than you should have voted National.

I went for the party with the in my view better policies. Funny you mentioned the future in your post, given that Winston recruits his voters mainly in old people homes - which means his policies need a short horizon.

ACT on the other hand is now a very young team with lots of growth potential.

[Daytr]

Wow you jump to conclusions. Not sensitive at all about what you wrote.
You made a throw away comment & I asked what you meant by it. Pretty simple really.
I have openly said I try & take the best from the left & right so on balance I would suggest that makes me a centrist.
Funny you have quite often called me a lefty on this thread & yet I voted for a right wing party being NZF.
So perhaps think about that & where perhaps I fall in the spectrum... perhaps somewhere near the center.
Just a thought...

I had fun at school & I think most people I knew did, however I certainly don't dwell on it & I'd hate to ruin any imaginings you may have.
I will leave dreaming about school days to John Key, who obviously thinks he's still in the playground surrounded by girls with ponytails.. ;-)

Anyway this is starting to get all a little tedious, so I think I'll just stick to ripping apart National as they are an easy target.
I could have a crack at ACT, but then what's the point? They aren't a political threat to anyone thank goodness & back to playground references, I would just feel like a bully.
Two stuff ups already this week for National & its only Wednesday. Plenty of time for a 3rd or 4th.
Lets just hope no one suffers due to their mismanagement.

[elZorro]

Wow you jump to conclusions. Not sensitive at all about what you wrote.
You made a throw away comment & I asked what you meant by it. Pretty simple really.
I have openly said I try & take the best from the left & right so on balance I would suggest that makes me a centrist.
Funny you have quite often called me a lefty on this thread & yet I voted for a right wing party being NZF.
So perhaps think about that & where perhaps I fall in the spectrum... perhaps somewhere near the center.
Just a thought...

I had fun at school & I think most people I knew did, however I certainly don't dwell on it & I'd hate to ruin any imaginings you may have.
I will leave dreaming about school days to John Key, who obviously thinks he's still in the playground surrounded by girls with ponytails.. ;-)

Anyway this is starting to get all a little tedious, so I think I'll just stick to ripping apart National as they are an easy target.
I could have a crack at ACT, but then what's the point? They aren't a political threat to anyone thank goodness & back to playground references, I would just feel like a bully.
Two stuff ups already this week for National & its only Wednesday. Plenty of time for a 3rd or 4th.
Lets just hope no one suffers due to their mismanagement.

Daytr, you should get with the program. It's quite OK if prisons are not run how their charter says they should be, they can even ship out the problem inmates once they are at death's door to keep their record and earnings good, that's OK as far as National is concerned. Dirty politics are also OK, it's happening everywhere after all. Judith Collins was the only one who went a bit too far, and she'll be back soon enough. The ponytail stuff is long forgotten, it never happened.

It's very important that National/ACT are left in power because, well, they are just doing such a good job. Because of their policies, we are all doing so much better than..we would have been? We don't need to look back over any data to make sure of that statement.

I think we should have a bit of a look at ACT, Daytr, it'll be interesting.

Bill English over there looking, but the lift is not going to the top floor.

http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news...y+22+July+2015

[craic]

elZ. you have two more years of pain and suffering under the present Govt. before you can present your collection of Enlightened Ones to the people of New Zealand as "The Way of the Future" But there is still the problem of getting enough people to believe you? So far you have not had much success. Maybe you should hire an agency - they would be sure to do better than the bunch of clowns who front the outfit now. I know how you feel - my horse ran second yesterday and paid a good dividend but, I only had a win bet on it.

[elZorro]

elZ. you have two more years of pain and suffering under the present Govt. before you can present your collection of Enlightened Ones to the people of New Zealand as "The Way of the Future" But there is still the problem of getting enough people to believe you? So far you have not had much success. Maybe you should hire an agency - they would be sure to do better than the bunch of clowns who front the outfit now. I know how you feel - my horse ran second yesterday and paid a good dividend but, I only had a win bet on it.

Quite correct Craic, but to continue the analogy, National's big horse (CeeTee) is getting bogged down on the straight and has forgotten about the corners coming up. Labour's horse (Kelvin would be his name today) is fleet of foot and is undergoing training. Punter sentiment is moving towards Labour's horse, more every week.

Lyn Webster is sharemilking up north, will be finding the going tough.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farm...y+23+July+2015

Daytr, here is an article from Jamie Whyte about foreign house buyers. I challenge anyone to find an ounce of common sense in here. The numbers are meaningless, he calls it a 'simple example'. It's worse than that. He's just grumpy that National will have to cave in and do the sensible thing. The market didn't win. I hope he gives better advice in his consultancy.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/n...y+23+July+2015