If National wins ...

[winner69]

If anybody interested on the troubles Serco are working through this is a good read. Long but it is the weekend

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...P=share_btn_tw

[BlackPeter]

BP, you're a great stirrer, but again, no substance behind these allegations.

Hi EZ, this is a bit thick coming from you. Which of my allegations do you think is without substance? and hey, you said "again", i.e. there must be more than one allegation without substance ...? You should give me at least an opportunity to deliver the evidence (even if I am sure you won't like it). What allegations exactly are you referring to?

[winner69]

EZ, is Labour still predistribution on their agenda and using those ideas as the foundation of their policies or did that go out the window with Cunliffe

CT have some leanings that way - maybe the Nats will start thinking that way now

[elZorro]

EZ, is Labour still predistribution on their agenda and using those ideas as the foundation of their policies or did that go out the window with Cunliffe

CT have some leanings that way - maybe the Nats will start thinking that way now

W69, I'm not sure what you mean, is that pro-distribution of.. something?

However I see John Key has moved to take some Labour policy ideas about immigration into the regions. All carefully worded in the media interview:

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/politi...on-rule-change

So while they're bereft of good ideas, they've taken some Labour policies and used them, and simultaneously they are placing some controls on immigration. Then at the end of the interview he's cunning enough to suggest that they still want an open policy on immigration and open markets, and that Labour don't seem to know what their policies are at the moment. Yes, John, we all believe you. Every word.

The only trouble is, this type of policy to move new people into the regions to presumably start up businesses, has come at the very time the locals are cutting back on staff and paring back their costs to weather a big downturn. This bandaid policy would have been better, if it was done a couple of years ago.

An economist formerly from the Reserve Bank was on The Nation this morning, saying that it only takes a 1% population increase in NZ to add 10% to property prices (I assume that's in Auckland, or worse in Auckland). So while the National govt's response to housing prices is to do a snapshot of ownership in October(not a register, which would be updated), it's still going to be very interesting to see the data.

I was speaking to a guy who has two tertiary qualifications today, very briefly he mentioned the leaked house buyer data, and implied the data was rubbish, done solely on surnames. Again, he never saw the data, was only going on what he'd read in the press, and being a National/Act sort of voter, that was good enough for him. You can see where this is going. Labour do need to get the public to be a bit more informed, but that takes money.

[winner69]

EZ

Wiki definition - Pre-distribution is the idea that the state should try to prevent inequalities occurring in the first place rather than ameliorating inequalities through the tax and benefits system once they have occurred as occurs under redistribution.

Brainchild of a Yale professor

Cunliffe liked the concept and did talk about it.

Conservative introduction of a National Living Wage in the recent UK budget was predistribution in action. Very poignant as Miliband was seen as a dork talking predistribution before the election.

Seems a pattern here - Conservative/National 'stealing' Labour ideas.

[elZorro]

EZ

Wiki definition - Pre-distribution is the idea that the state should try to prevent inequalities occurring in the first place rather than ameliorating inequalities through the tax and benefits system once they have occurred as occurs under redistribution.

Brainchild of a Yale professor

Cunliffe liked the concept and did talk about it.

Conservative introduction of a National Living Wage in the recent UK budget was predistribution in action. Very poignant as Miliband was seen as a dork talking predistribution before the election.

Seems a pattern here - Conservative/National 'stealing' Labour ideas.

OK, thanks for that W69. I would guess that in some cases you could predict the results from putting effort in at the front end, like a liveable minimum wage, but in other situations you'd need to be there at the end to tidy up. Which is surely what we have now, a series of policies tested over time. While National make a show of being polite to the masses, they also clamp down hard in certain areas too.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/politi...,-sole-parents

[winner69]

OK, thanks for that W69. I would guess that in some cases you could predict the results from putting effort in at the front end, like a liveable minimum wage, but in other situations you'd need to be there at the end to tidy up. Which is surely what we have now, a series of policies tested over time. While National make a show of being polite to the masses, they also clamp down hard in certain areas too.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/politi...,-sole-parents

That's how it works eh EZ

As long as the insiders keep getting richer and the poor poorer its working.

[Daytr]

BP, confusion reigns again I see. Common theme on this thread.

I never said YOU questioned the union movement. However I'm glad to see you think they have their place as long as they don't have control. I probably agree with that, although I'm not sure that's how I would term it & I think their needs to be a balance and at the moment the balance has swung too far in favour of business, with the likes of zero hour contracts, threats to smoko breaks and more recently watering down safety standards for small business the biggest employer in NZ.

How can you used to be a Greenie? You are confusing the Green party with being a Greenie. A Greenie is someone who shows concern for the environment or actively supporting and promoting protection of the environment. Obviously Green party members are Greenies, but you can be a Greenie without being a supporter of the Green party. I am one of those. Easy to confuse the two as unfortunately environmental policy is owned by the left, whereas it should be a priority for all parties, as the environment is what we all depend on to survive and surely even the short sighted National party can see of you crap in your own backyard it will cost you in the long run. This is a major area of policy failure for National and one of the first reasons that turned me against them when returning to NZ. Seeing their promotion of mining & fossil fuel exploration & at the same time cutting funding to DOC. Disgraceful.
BP, for someone who doesn't believe emissions which is a, if not the major issue in regards man made climate change, I think you may failed Greenie 101 and perhaps could never call yourself a Greenie in the true sense of the term. However any concern for the environment and its protection is certainly a positive.

Hi daytr, I don't think I questioned the value of the union movement - I just indicated that they, while not being part of Labour, seem to dictate whoever is leading Labour at the day (both Little and Cunliffe have been forced on Labour against the will of its caucus). Not a problem for me, I just questioned the wisdom of this selection process ... but if it works for Labour, than this is fine with me . Long may this process continue .

Totally agree with you - the unions had their place in history, and their role was essential during the industrialisation. Wouldn't want to know how the world would look like today without a strong union movement at this time. The problem with them is like with every other human based organisation ... they learned to use their muscle, managed to overcome resistance and than started to use their power not for the good of the country, but to satisfy the desire of a few. Just look at the US, who still have a strong union movement - many unions over their are basically legalised criminal organisations living of blackmail and corruption.

Not saying that NZ is that far down the same track, but I don't think this is for the integrity of its union leaders, it is just that they never had the opportunity here to take that much power. Lets keep it that way.

Looking at the Greenies - I used to be one of them and certainly treat the environment with respect. Unfortunately here in New Zealand the Green party has been taken over by a bunch of (very left wing) people who just try to push their socialist agenda under the cloak of the Green party brand. Some of them (e.g. Russel Norman) first tried their luck in marxist political groups (Australian DSP). Many of them came from New Labour and other colourful Alliance-branches. Nothing against socialists and communists (well, I don't question their good will, even if I think that their proposed methods don't work), however there is a problem if they hide under the Green brand because they realised that they get nowhere while working with an open agenda. This is what tarnishes the Green brand, not any desire to protect the environment.

The disgrace you are talking about should target the people who undermined a once honest environmental movement.

[BlackPeter]

BP, confusion reigns again I see. Common theme on this thread.

I never said YOU questioned the union movement. However I'm glad to see you think they have their place as long as they don't have control. I probably agree with that, although I'm not sure that's how I would term it & I think their needs to be a balance and at the moment the balance has swung too far in favour of business, with the likes of zero hour contracts, threats to smoko breaks and more recently watering down safety standards for small business the biggest employer in NZ.

How can you used to be a Greenie? You are confusing the Green party with being a Greenie. A Greenie is someone who shows concern for the environment or actively supporting and promoting protection of the environment. Obviously Green party members are Greenies, but you can be a Greenie without being a supporter of the Green party. I am one of those. Easy to confuse the two as unfortunately environmental policy is owned by the left, whereas it should be a priority for all parties, as the environment is what we all depend on to survive and surely even the short sighted National party can see of you crap in your own backyard it will cost you in the long run. This is a major area of policy failure for National and one of the first reasons that turned me against them when returning to NZ. Seeing their promotion of mining & fossil fuel exploration & at the same time cutting funding to DOC. Disgraceful.
BP, for someone who doesn't believe emissions which is a, if not the major issue in regards man made climate change, I think you may failed Greenie 101 and perhaps could never call yourself a Greenie in the true sense of the term. However any concern for the environment and its protection is certainly a positive.

Hmm - given your major concern about confusion ... maybe you should add a bit less

[elZorro]

That's how it works eh EZ

As long as the insiders keep getting richer and the poor poorer its working.

That's certainly what it looks like.

Here is a short version of Labour's immigration policy at the 2014 elections, one of the policies no-one looked at. Seems a bit like National's 'new idea for the regions'.

http://campaign.labour.org.nz/immigration