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  1. #8321
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    Winner, I am yet to hear one good thing in regards the TPPA.
    Is the US going to suddenly stop subsidizing their farmers?
    NZ seems to have one of the most open markets and yet the likes of the US & Europe still have large protectionism.
    All I see is more corporatization of governments and that is not a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    John will be getting many more pats on the back from THEM again.

    They will be pleased to see their man championing the cause so well

    Alas, my protests have been in vain

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...ents-protected
    Hopefully you find my posts helpful, but in no way should they be construed as advice. Make your own decision.

  2. #8322
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    John will be getting many more pats on the back from THEM again.

    They will be pleased to see their man championing the cause so well

    Alas, my protests have been in vain

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...ents-protected
    Jane Kelsey was just on Seven Sharp, putting a good case against the TPPA. Mike Hosking of course had the last word, that it'll be all right. But that was after Jane had implied that his questions showed a lack of background research. Those National caucus members think they're so clever, but they are about to get done. And so is NZ, down the track.

  3. #8323
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Whats wrong with voting for ACT? They are a party based on liberal ideas ... can't get more centre than that. They advocate the responsibility of the individual vs a nanny role of the state.


    "I stand for freedom. I stand for tolerance. I stand for minority rights. I stand for fairness, justice and a human society without fear of oppression through the state, majority groups, the doomsday preachers of the day (be they religious or not) or the in any society present bullies. I stand for everybody's right to get a good start in life.

    What do you stand for, daytr?
    More suited to John's "change the flag " web site. ACT centre? More far right Libertarian.

    westerly

  4. #8324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daytr View Post
    Winner, I am yet to hear one good thing in regards the TPPA.
    Is the US going to suddenly stop subsidizing their farmers?
    NZ seems to have one of the most open markets and yet the likes of the US & Europe still have large protectionism.
    All I see is more corporatization of governments and that is not a good thing.
    You are spot on daytr, and we are going to get screwed

    Obvious who John is backing eh

    Still some protests to come, I'll be there
    “ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”

  5. #8325
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    Tourism industry takes $104mill hit from new tax, and now BNZ mentioning a dairy payout with a 2 in front, as possible?

    http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news...y+29+July+2015

    Key's pragmatic policy on regional placement of immigrants, is it really that good? Read the comments.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/ne...y+29+July+2015

    One really good thing about immigration, from National's point of view, is it makes GDP growth look good. How to grow an economy without doing too much at all.
    Last edited by elZorro; 29-07-2015 at 06:51 AM.

  6. #8326
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    Hopefully there is a big turnout. Although I can't see it making any difference to what National signs NZ up for.
    The TPPA is probably the most far reaching & encompassing international deal that NZ has ever entered into.
    All I see is that this will benefit multi-national corporations to the detriment of our citizens.
    We already know its going to cost us more in regards pharmaceuticals. Why on earth would we agree to that?
    Last I looked companies/corporations don't vote & governments are there to represent its citizens not protect the dividend payout of corporations.

    Can anyone say what benefit NZ will get in exchange for signing away part of its sovereignty?
    Isn't this termed as a form of treason in any other guise?

    The Green Party gets a hard time on this thread, but they are really the only one stamping their foot loud & hard on the TPPA. Kudos.
    Watch-out the privatization of the health system is next with funding being taken away from DHB's just the start.

    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    You are spot on daytr, and we are going to get screwed

    Obvious who John is backing eh

    Still some protests to come, I'll be there
    Last edited by Daytr; 29-07-2015 at 09:38 PM.
    Hopefully you find my posts helpful, but in no way should they be construed as advice. Make your own decision.

  7. #8327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daytr View Post
    ACT have what I would call extreme views on market forces which is basically Randism.
    If you really think ACT is somewhere near the center you are dreaming.
    They believe that market forces will auto correct & create a balance and should be left pretty much unregulated.
    This naïve view doesn't account for human behavior & greed, which goes directly against liberal philosophy of fairness.
    Greenspan thought on similar lines & look where that ended up.

    I would suggest the current National government promotes unfairness in society and look after the all ready well off & is creating a greater divide in regards wealth. Hardly inline with what you declare you stand for.
    Ah well, this clarifies it all. Daytr - I asked you what you stand for. The only thing you managed to come up with is another unsubstantiated attack on ACT as well as on myself.

    I guess we all know what Winston and NZF stand for: populism, racism and enjoying the baubles of office. Pity that he seems to be rubbing off to his disciples - they are not even able anymore to stand for something positive .
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  8. #8328
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Ah well, this clarifies it all. Daytr - I asked you what you stand for. The only thing you managed to come up with is another unsubstantiated attack on ACT as well as on myself.

    I guess we all know what Winston and NZF stand for: populism, racism and enjoying the baubles of office. Pity that he seems to be rubbing off to his disciples - they are not even able anymore to stand for something positive .
    We're still wondering what you think of Ayn Rand, BP. No doubt you've read her works avidly..

  9. #8329
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    Its not unsubstantiated. Doesn't ACT believe in less regulation & let market forces dictate?
    It clarifies all does it. haha

    No that is your interpretation of what Winston Peters stands for which is completely one eyed.
    Need I remind you he is the longest standing politician in New Zealand.
    Some would call that service to the country. Others just want to be derogatory.
    Peters & NZF has the best interest of all NZers at heart. National just want to look after big business & sell & corporatize everything it can lay its hands on.

    You asked me what I stood for, such a simple question that has an array of topics to cover to give an answer to & I didn't want to bore everyone on here with a litany of terms sounding like a super hero, such as truth, justice & the American way... What I will say as many of the things you mentioned I am sure we all stand for, however we obviously have very different thoughts on how they are arrived at or achieved and as I alluded to the current right of politics might say they believe in those things but their policies fail the bar on so many levels and is far more about lining the pockets of big business and development at any cost, be it socially or environmentally.
    All National have proved is that they can keep an economy afloat by getting the government in hock up to its eyeballs, build roads, sell anything & everything or corporatize it, botch that in regards MT Eden prison, the sale of social housing, to anyone that has the dosh, securitise mental health, restructure DOC & then reverse it 18 months later, slash the budget to DOC. Now they are looking to sign a trade agreement that nobody wants & wont be in the best interest of New Zealand. Key does not have NZs interests first, its all about money & corporatizing the government. Winston Peters fights for the average citizen.

    In one line you say I make an unsubstantiated attack when I am quoting ACT philosophy back at you. if you don't like it I would suggest then that you voted for the wrong party. You then go on to just the same, a very cheap & unsubstantiated attack against a man who just achieved the biggest political swing in NZs history & gave the government a massive black eye they will carry into the 2017 election.

    NZF I hope will challenge National in every regional seat. This is National's strong hold and where they will do the most damage. Combine that with Labour's stronghold the urban seats & good bye National in 2017.





    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Ah well, this clarifies it all. Daytr - I asked you what you stand for. The only thing you managed to come up with is another unsubstantiated attack on ACT as well as on myself.

    I guess we all know what Winston and NZF stand for: populism, racism and enjoying the baubles of office. Pity that he seems to be rubbing off to his disciples - they are not even able anymore to stand for something positive .
    Last edited by Daytr; 29-07-2015 at 01:19 PM.
    Hopefully you find my posts helpful, but in no way should they be construed as advice. Make your own decision.

  10. #8330
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    We're still wondering what you think of Ayn Rand, BP. No doubt you've read her works avidly..
    Sorry to disappoint you EZ, the name didn't ring a bell. Might be related to being grown up in a non-anglo-saxon culture. We have enough philosophers ourselves.

    Just based on the wikipedia summary: I guess there are some ideas in her teachings I would support - and others I wouldn't. I certainly wouldn't support a "laissez-faire capitalism" - and neither would in my view ACT (judging from the current program: http://www.act.org.nz/policies).

    Not sure what the article means with "she supported egoism and rejected altruism". If this is meant as observation and something politicians need to take into consideration, than I could understand where it is coming from. If it is however meant as a (desirable) objective - this certainly wouldn't sound like something I'd support.

    Ah yes - and I note that she supported a Republican presidential candidate. Admittedly in 1940, and I am not that versed with the US politics of this time. However - I can't remember any recent Republican president (and candidate) I would have supported. I guess many (not all) of the Democrats have been bad enough, why would anybody go for worse than bad?

    So, for what it is worth - it might be interesting to learn a bit more about what's behind some of her ideas, but on face value I am not sure, whether I would share more political values with her than I seem to share with daytr ...

    Does this help?
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    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

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