If National wins ...

[fungus pudding]

craig, sorry to confuse your little political universe ... but not all people who loathe Trump are Lefties. Some are just decent. I am politically independent, but more often than not a National / ACT supporter ... (and never ever voted for Labour)

Same here, although I have voted Labour in the past, but it's not a left/right issue when it comes to Trump. Nobody including Trump himself have much of an idea of his 'policies'. Certainly a lot of his mutterings have been against Republicans' fundamental beliefs. The reason I oppose Trump is simply because he's probably the most appalling creep to have ever gained high office in a Western democracy.

[Snow Leopard]

Well, yes - I think it was Churchill who said that "democracy is the worst form of government, with the exception of all others"....

It was Mahatma Gandhi who in reply to the question
"What do you think of Western civiization?"
replied
"I think it would be a good idea".


The final footsteps of Gandhi, Delhi, India.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[elZorro]

Same here, although I have voted Labour in the past, but it's not a left/right issue when it comes to Trump. Nobody including Trump himself have much of an idea of his 'policies'. Certainly a lot of his mutterings have been against Republicans' fundamental beliefs. The reason I oppose Trump is simply because he's probably the most appalling creep to have ever gained high office in a Western democracy.

I agree with that, FP. Not sure how you can forgive John Key for his odd behaviour sometimes, but that is in the past, as National voters always say.

As far as I know, John Key has never divulged his real income, or his tax situation. Which makes this latest trust/tax haven saga, where New Zealand and the Cayman Islands are mentioned in the same sentence, more interesting.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11783658

[craic]

My "little political universe" is probably as wide as anyone's. I have little love for DT but I believe that if he can maintain strong leadership he has the capacity to force people to face the realities in his country and restore national pride. Obama was a great talker but he achieved almost nothing for America. There are as many sleeping on the streets as when he started - there are as many out of work as when he started - and the Russians and Chinese are overrunning the western world. I don't believe Trump has the intelligence to go with his leadership but platoon commanders win the battles, not the Generals. QUOTE=BlackPeter;652103]Not sure to whom you address this, but given that it is in response to my post ... I am certainly not concerned about the NZ Labour party - I think we both agree that they are a basket case and have a big Little problem. Yes, Winston First might save them, but do we really want that (as long as they don't change)? As well - remember - it is the unions electing unsuitable Labour leaders.

craig, sorry to confuse your little political universe ... but not all people who loathe Trump are Lefties. Some are just decent. I am politically independent, but more often than not a National / ACT supporter ... (and never ever voted for Labour)[/QUOTE]

[Major von Tempsky]

" but not all people who loathe Trump are Lefties. " Hear hear to that!

It makes me squirm when I see people like Metiria Turei and Julie Ann Genter's easy assumption that they are the leaders of the anti - Trump forces. THEY ARE NOT! I would never vote for them and I would never vote for Trump. Nor does the fact I am anti-Trump mean I am pro-left, pro marijuana and all the other politically correct rubbish. Out with Trump and out with the Left! I am a miltant CENTRIST middle classer.

[iceman]

The funny thing is that Trump says he will implement policies that Turei, Genter and EZ agree with, such as anti free trade and re-establishing uneconomic industries to "make America great again" !!
I thought they'd be his cheerleaders

[elZorro]

The funny thing is that Trump says he will implement policies that Turei, Genter and EZ agree with, such as anti free trade and re-establishing uneconomic industries to "make America great again" !!
I thought they'd be his cheerleaders

When did I ever say that? I'm keen on niche, well-founded, manufacturing industries, preferably with some hi-tech IP to protect them. Re-establishing uneconomic industries is a very bad idea. Four to one, the reason so many Americans are out of a job, is automation, not outsourcing.

However, some say Trump's inauguration is marking the end of neoliberalism and the start of populism. Even if the star of the show is a wealthy rentier who has no intention of unwinding the current situation.

[craic]

Politics is the same as a game of rugby - only one ball - each side tries to pick it up an run with it and score. Great stuff if your side has it and scores - despair if it's the other lot. Free-trade, anti free-trade, unemployment, homelessness and all the rest are just balls that are picked up by one side or the other. Trouble is the sides drop or lose the ball more frequently than All Blacks and immediately cry foul and demand penalties. Populism is not new. All the reported problems here are not new. Other countries have them to greater degree than NZ but our left, particularly, cry foul about homelessness, unemployment and the like when we are generally much better off than the rest. Cardboard has been the standard home for many in London since I lived there in the 1950's and before. Soup kitchens were around in Dickens' time when the population was a mere fraction of what it is now and automation didn't exist. The next election will not be affected by the loss of John Key from the line up. The power of Donald Trump and Le Pen? will see the move to the right, worldwide, will be the main factor.

[westerly]

" but not all people who loathe Trump are Lefties. " Hear hear to that!

It makes me squirm when I see people like Metiria Turei and Julie Ann Genter's easy assumption that they are the leaders of the anti - Trump forces. THEY ARE NOT! I would never vote for them and I would never vote for Trump. Nor does the fact I am anti-Trump mean I am pro-left, pro marijuana and all the other politically correct rubbish. Out with Trump and out with the Left! I am a miltant CENTRIST middle classer.

The International Democratic Union chaired by John Key is a an international alliance of “ centre right parties”. I sort of had the impression the right was dead against any sort of union, however given the interest in Donald Trump, the Republican Party of the USA is a member along with the NZ National party. I would not describe the Republicans as centre right but nor would I give that tag to National. More centre of the right or even a bit further.
But whats in a name ? Anyone with any form of social conscience is auomatically a leftie and a member of the communist party.

westerly

[iceman]

When did I ever say that? I'm keen on niche, well-founded, manufacturing industries, preferably with some hi-tech IP to protect them. Re-establishing uneconomic industries is a very bad idea. Four to one, the reason so many Americans are out of a job, is automation, not outsourcing.

However, some say Trump's inauguration is marking the end of neoliberalism and the start of populism. Even if the star of the show is a wealthy rentier who has no intention of unwinding the current situation.

Without trawling through all the pages here, comments on the closure of Hillside Engineering in Dunedin comes to mind. From memory many comments were made on here blaming the Government for not keeping this unsustainable business open