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28-05-2017, 10:22 AM
#2231
Member
Originally Posted by kiwi783
I did have a search through the forum but couldn't find much specific experience.
What has been peoples experience with the tail end of Harmoney collection process and recovery process. After a year of conservative investing in A's and B's starting to hit first persistent arrears - I know for many of you that's good going but the already lower than platform returns will take a hit.
I appreciate this is all unsecured lending but with A's and B's the borrowers often significant assets even if our claim may be last in a long line. What is the Harmoney recovery effectiveness (if any) like? Harmoney t&c's simply refer to "an outsourced recoveries team. If applicable, Harmoney will also begin legal proceedings." Any experiences from the longer serving and members here?
Thanks
My experience, $952.45 charged off, $2.97 recovered (Sept & Oct 2016), I must say I had expected to see a bit more than this trickle through.
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28-05-2017, 10:54 AM
#2232
Member
Originally Posted by myles
Harmoney are required to pay to the Investor any recovered money above the cost of recovery. They are not sneakily going to take this off you - that is in the agreement. Do you really think Harmoney would risk it's business by doing something like that?
By investing in Harmoney, you take some risk, this is it, you accept it when you sign up...
History has shown us that there is a degree of dogginess in the finance industry. Harmoney already have a stained track record when it comes to doing business by the rules.
Yes, there is a level of risk investing in p2p loans but anyone who buries their head in the sand and hopes for the best will potentially end up the same way as the people who lost billions of dollars from finance company collapses. It's still early days and only time will tell but never stop asking questions.
Last edited by icyfire; 28-05-2017 at 10:56 AM.
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28-05-2017, 11:32 AM
#2233
Originally Posted by Saamee
Unfortunately I have never had the luxury of that happening on my HM account - Even thought I have a collection of Written Off loans
Here is my best one. Original loan $250.00
CHANGED-OFF DATE: Jan 8, 2016
AMOUNT IN ARREARS:$0.00
CHARGED-OFF PRINCIPAL:$220.79
RECOVERED PRINCIPAL:$205.19
NET CHARGED-OFF:$15.60
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28-05-2017, 01:18 PM
#2234
yeah, nah
Originally Posted by icyfire
This type of over zealous marketing occurs every other week - in any/all markets that sell something...banks are notorious for it... If you read the details, Harmoney actually still required the correct process to occur, so I'm not sure how it relates to the discussion of debt collection?
Originally Posted by icyfire
Yes, there is a level of risk investing in p2p loans but anyone who buries their head in the sand and hopes for the best will potentially end up the same way as the people who lost billions of dollars from finance company collapses. It's still early days and only time will tell but never stop asking questions.
Flumbphs, is the sound I've heard when others bury their heads in the sand, apparently you don't hear it if you do it
Quite a different scenario from the financial collapse - not really seeing the correlation - you get to/must, choose what risk level you invest in, minimal change of hands, and it's very clear where your money has gone?
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28-05-2017, 02:43 PM
#2235
Member
Originally Posted by myles
Quite a different scenario from the financial collapse - not really seeing the correlation - you get to/must, choose what risk level you invest in, minimal change of hands, and it's very clear where your money has gone?
The risk level for each loan is calculated by Harmoney's own formula and there is nothing stopping the borrower from using the loan for a different purpose than originally indicated. It's not quite black on white as it seems.
Originally Posted by myles
Quite a different scenario from the financial collapse - not really seeing the correlation
This time is different! You hear this a lot but I don't believe the hype.
Last edited by icyfire; 28-05-2017 at 02:48 PM.
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28-05-2017, 04:43 PM
#2236
yeah, nah
Originally Posted by icyfire
The risk level for each loan is calculated by Harmoney's own formula and there is nothing stopping the borrower from using the loan for a different purpose than originally indicated. It's not quite black on white as it seems.
This time is different! You hear this a lot but I don't believe the hype.
Hype??? Hmm, I suspect you don't have a good understanding of what happened in the lead up to, or during the GFC? If you can see some similarity, okay then...
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28-05-2017, 05:48 PM
#2237
Junior Member
Originally Posted by myles
The Investor Agreement, https://www.harmoney.co.nz/how-it-wo...stor-agreement, actually covers a lot of what has been asked in some of the recent posts. Clauses 55 - 62 in particular on Rights and Collection Services.
You can't really expect Harmoney to tell each investor what is done on each individual loan recovery, can you? They are not allowed to provide any specific details and it's carried out by a collection agency. General details of the process are provided by Harmoney, that's about all you could reasonably expect? They are not going to spend more money on recovery than they are likely to get back - if they did, you still wouldn't see anything and Harmoney would be throwing good money after bad (and would likely have to increase their fees)...
Harmoney are required to pay to the Investor any recovered money above the cost of recovery. They are not sneakily going to take this off you - that is in the agreement. Do you really think Harmoney would risk it's business by doing something like that?
By investing in Harmoney, you take some risk, this is it, you accept it when you sign up...
We do sign up knowing that we will never know loan/borrower specific detail but now that the platform has existed for a longer period I do think that more portfolio level experience and information could be given - perhaps legal status or actual recoveries by time by risk grade - so that people can start to consider the full life cycle. This would also address to some extent the uncertainty that is created by the information vacuum at the moment (and as mentioned in another post - the past experience of finance industry in general)
As an aside, knowing more (at summary level) about how successful Harmoney and its agents push on this part of the process enables us to consider in more detail what is acceptable risk from an investment (and moral) perspective. When I see some of the loans being listed I wonder if the borrowers are either financially naive or are starting to test/believe/figure out that the Platform is a soft touch. And when I see relatively safe risk categories being assigned to these loans I wonder also if the right balance has been struck - and it is only at the very end of the (sometime messy and protracted) process that we know for sure.
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28-05-2017, 05:49 PM
#2238
Member
P2P investing is in its infancy in NZ, no one can predict how it will play out in the next few years. Hopefully, history will not repeat itself again.
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28-05-2017, 05:51 PM
#2239
Member
Originally Posted by icyfire
History has shown us that there is a degree of dogginess in the finance industry. Harmoney already have a stained track record when it comes to doing business by the rules.
Yes, there is a level of risk investing in p2p loans but anyone who buries their head in the sand and hopes for the best will potentially end up the same way as the people who lost billions of dollars from finance company collapses. It's still early days and only time will tell but never stop asking questions.
P2P has a major difference to a finance company in that there is no liquidity risk.
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28-05-2017, 05:53 PM
#2240
Originally Posted by RMJH
P2P has a major difference to a finance company in that there is no liquidity risk.
Another good point I feel. is that there is NO OBR risk should a major NZ bank fail!
Obviously apart from any funds on deposit or not yet drawn down by a borrower at HM \ LC \ SM etc
Last edited by Saamee; 28-05-2017 at 06:22 PM.
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