Harmoney

[mlt322]

Comment on the other P2P companies seems to have dried up on this forum. Only Harmoney is getting regular input. Any thoughts why?

[Kelvin]

Comment on the other P2P companies seems to have dried up on this forum. Only Harmoney is getting regular input. Any thoughts why?

Much fewer borrowers and investors on other platforms? I tried putting $500 into Squirrel but couldn't get it invested, and it constantly shows $0 loans waiting to be funded. So I'll be sticking with Harmoney where I can get my money invested fairly quickly.

[unhuman]

Comment on the other P2P companies seems to have dried up on this forum. Only Harmoney is getting regular input. Any thoughts why?

No news is good news IMO.

Other than Harmoney I'm also with Squirrel and honestly there isn't much to talk about.

Because the loans are much greater in size than Harmoney I only get a handful of payments each month and due to the reserve fund, they predicatably come in on time each month.

There aren't any risk grades / defaults / double up on fees due to rewrites which is what the majority of discussion re Harmoney is about.

It just ticks along in the background without any input from myself.

[Darchie]

That's interesting Finite ... are you able to pinpoit the approx time frame this late fee payment disappeared?

[Soolaimon]

That's interesting Finite ... are you able to pinpoit the approx time frame this late fee payment disappeared?
I had a very small late payment fee credited to my account back in Oct 2014 and nothing since.

[Finite]

That's interesting Finite ... are you able to pinpoit the approx time frame this late fee payment disappeared?
Email from Mark Bardi October 2015
"Yes, we stopped charging borrowers late fees quite a few months ago because the system wasn't working the way we had intended.

We may charge fees again in the future, although we may decide to allocate them to help cover collections costs."

[Darchie]

OMG .... Not what one could call! 'Full Disclosure' Open & honest & all that!
Harmoney currently have market share, did pay to be first out of the gates, but as others get their momentum up and mature a little, I'm hoping they'll be good alternatives. It is healthy to have a selection of opposition - hopefully it'll keep them all on their toes! Would hate any cartelling!
However I do get a little bit more of a feel Harmoney is 'Starting' to take a slither more notice of their investors, but then again - I suppose it would save a lot of work for them, if they ensured they pissed off the vast majority of their fractionalised investors, & had most of the loans hoovered up by hearland & the likes!

[winner69]

OMG ..., but then again - I suppose it would save a lot of work for them, if they ensured they pissed off the vast majority of their fractionalised investors, & had most of the loans hoovered up by hearland & the likes!

Probably is their strategy ......but need to have a few (fractionalised) investors so they can call themselves Peer to Peer lenders.

[mlt322]

Have just calculated what I consider the true service fee on my account (fee as a percentage of gross interest received) and find it at 5.86%. Those re-writes certainly make the stated fee of 1.25% unrealistic.

[Finite]

Have just calculated what I consider the true service fee on my account (fee as a percentage of gross interest received) and find it at 5.86%. Those re-writes certainly make the stated fee of 1.25% unrealistic.

The service fee was never meant to be as %age of gross interest.
It has always been a %age of gross interest AND capital repayments.

[permutation]

Have just calculated what I consider the true service fee on my account (fee as a percentage of gross interest received) and find it at 5.86%. Those re-writes certainly make the stated fee of 1.25% unrealistic.

The fee was always stated as being on interest and capital. Have been investing for almost 1 year. Have had over $5000 repaid in interest and principal through rewrites and normal repayments. Have paid just under 1.25% fees a total of about $60. I think it's quite fair for the 15% return I've had so far on my money.

The fees I have paid to Harmoney are a scintilla compared to some greedy stock brokers charging a total of $60 for 1 buy/sell trade; plus the big risk there is of losing capital value of shares very quickly sometimes.

I am very happy about fees v returns I get from P2P lending.

I find that the rewrites give me a second chance to reconsider my investment criteria, I think it's all good.

[Finite]

The fee was always stated as being on interest and capital. Have been investing for almost 1 year. Have had over $5000 repaid in interest and principal through rewrites and normal repayments. Have paid just under 1.25% fees a total of about $60. I think it's quite fair for the 15% return I've had so far on my money.


You will have paid exactly 1.25% in fees or a bit bit more depending on how many rewrites - there is no way it can be anything else.

[permutation]

You will have paid exactly 1.25% in fees or a bit bit more depending on how many rewrites - there is no way it can be anything else.

I have had a number loans that were infunding then were not taken up by the borrower so the cash was paid back within a day or two, those were included in my calculation.
No fee was charged by Harmoney in this instance.

[permutation]

Has anyone done the calculation =Fees/(P+I)% from their latest dashboard figures and found it to be less than 1.25% ?

[Knot]

Has anyone done the calculation =Fees/(P+I)% from their latest dashboard figures and found it to be less than 1.25% ?

Dashboard is rounded figures, so it could be purely that.

[Harvey Specter]

Dashboard is rounded figures, so it could be purely that.I thought they said at one point that if the fee would put you into negative return (due to early repayment), they wont charge it (eg. If the fee exceeds the interest received, they waive the fee). Ive seen repayments within 4 months which would probably result in this.

[Knot]

I thought they said at one point that if the fee would put you into negative return (due to early repayment), they wont charge it (eg. If the fee exceeds the interest received, they waive the fee). Ive seen repayments within 4 months which would probably result in this.

I had a loan repaid in full 3 days ago, it was 10 days after it was taken out. They took their 1.25%, so I lost some of my principal. This and losing principal on rewrites are two of the things that hold me back from putting large amounts into the platform. (Yes I am a gambler in this regard) The other major thing for me is poor transaction reporting, so much is only available as a summary, no real transaction log.

[Harvey Specter]

I had a loan repaid in full 3 days ago, it was 10 days after it was taken out. They took their 1.25%, so I lost some of my principal. This and losing principal on rewrites are two of the things that hold me back from putting large amounts into the platform. (Yes I am a gambler in this regard) The other major thing for me is poor transaction reporting, so much is only available as a summary, no real transaction log.That is something they need to address then. No way you should lose money when a loan is repaid in full!

[777]

There should be a penalty on the borrower for repaying early. The penalty could reduce during the loan period. My guess is if they pay within 3 months of taking out the loan the lender loses out. Not enough interest earned to pay the 1.25% and tax.

[Darchie]

Have just calculated what I consider the true service fee on my account (fee as a percentage of gross interest received) and find it at 5.86%. Those re-writes certainly make the stated fee of 1.25% unrealistic.

This way of working out Harmoneys fee is very useful & interesting especially when comparing to the likes of Lending Crowd ... but also what needs to be remembered is Harmoney is unsecured consumer lending .. so their fee needs to reflect that Fact.

[humvee]

Have just calculated what I consider the true service fee on my account (fee as a percentage of gross interest received) and find it at 5.86%. Those re-writes certainly make the stated fee of 1.25% unrealistic.

I dont agree with how harmoney handles the fee on rewrites but if your fee as a % of interest is only.5.86% then that is lower then what lending crowd charge. Here is what lending crowd charge.

"Interest flexInvestors are charged a service fee of 10% of the interest Lending Crowd collects or recovers under any loan agreement. This fee is charged each time interest is paid into an investor's account and will show on an investor's transaction statement as interest flex."

[mlt322]

if your fee as a % of interest is only.5.86% then that is lower then what lending crowd charge. Here is what lending crowd charge.

Oh, I do agree completely. I do understand that Harmoney charge their fee based on P&I repaid so no surprises really. I just like to compare the true return on my investment and as Humvee says, 5.86% is still much better than Lending Crowd's flat 10%.

I would still prefer a higher service rate charged on just interest received rather than the current 1.25% of P&I. By the sounds of it, this could be happening this year.

[Saamee]

Good comments... Always remember there is a price to pay for Security... or not Security... The main difference between Harmoney & Lending Crowd!

[Darchie]

I dont agree with how harmoney handles the fee on rewrites but if your fee as a % of interest is only.5.86% then that is lower then what lending crowd charge. Here is what lending crowd charge.

"Interest flexInvestors are charged a service fee of 10% of the interest Lending Crowd collects or recovers under any loan agreement. This fee is charged each time interest is paid into an investor's account and will show on an investor's transaction statement as interest flex."

Remember though humvee; Lending Crowds fee is on secured loans.
Harmoneys is unsecured lending, with these continual rewrites & possible extra defaults could over time make their fee unbalanced when compared to the other P2P platforms.

[Saamee]

As others have stated > Harmoney's 1.25% is on both Principle & Interest where Lending Crowds 10% is only on the Interest!

[humvee]

As others have stated > Harmoney's 1.25% is on both Principle & Interest where Lending Crowds 10% is only on the Interest!


Yes - but the calculation mlt322 has done has shown in his case the fee is the same as it would have been if he was charged 5.86% of interest payments only - so it is a fair comparision

Dont get me wrong I think how harmoney calculates their fee particularly around rewrites lacks transparency and honesty and creates a conflict of interest or a "moral hazard" depending on how you look at it. All i'm saying is the final result is not as bad as what I expected it to be or what other P2P providers openly tell you it will be on their platform.

[777]

I take it that you all completed their survey recently asking for opinions?

[Darchie]

I take it that you all completed their survey recently asking for opinions?

Absolutely. ... but have since thought of more that I should have added!

[humvee]

I take it that you all completed their survey recently asking for opinions?
yes i did.

[Cool Bear]

as mentioned in an earlier post, my spreedsheet works out what the effective service fee is for me due to the re-writes. At the moment it is 2.66% instead of the stated 1.25%. MLT32 and many of the above posters are correct that to compare to Lending Crowd, we should just take the service fee as a percentage of the interest received. Mine is 4.68% which is cheaper than lending crowd's 10%

Yes, one is supposedly secured and the other is not. But then that risk is taken care off by the different interest rates.

I am also invested in Lending Crowd but in a much smaller way than in Harmoney. I guess time will tell which is a better investment. It will have to be at least 18 months. Of course, the real test will come when the economy goes down the drain and I hope we do not have to experience that!

[kiwi_on_OE]

I thought I'd ask your collective opinion about possibly starting a new thread. I've noticed a few issues with the Harmoney system, some might call them bugs. I mention them to Harmoney, but I wondered if you thought it was worth having a separate thread to highlight these issues to other users. Or just mention them here, or not at all?

The latest issue I've seen is a loan in an order that is sitting at 0%, and the order was done a few days ago. The loan is no longer in the investment list. I'm pretty sure it wasn't at 0% when I first invested, so it looks like the loan/application has been stopped, but Harmoney have my money locked up and I can't invest it elsewhere as the loan in the order is still "In Funding".

[Knot]

I thought I'd ask your collective opinion about possibly starting a new thread. I've noticed a few issues with the Harmoney system, some might call them bugs. I mention them to Harmoney, but I wondered if you thought it was worth having a separate thread to highlight these issues to other users. Or just mention them here, or not at all?

The latest issue I've seen is a loan in an order that is sitting at 0%, and the order was done a few days ago. The loan is no longer in the investment list. I'm pretty sure it wasn't at 0% when I first invested, so it looks like the loan/application has been stopped, but Harmoney have my money locked up and I can't invest it elsewhere as the loan in the order is still "In Funding".

I had this issue a week or two ago, although mine was stuck at 98% but showing fully funded. It took several days and much back and forth between myself and a few Harmoney people to get it resolved. They said it was because the loan was a rewrite and then turned down by the borrower they had to wait while the refunds flowed around (Not their exact words, just my recollection). They said they were going to address the problem with a change, I guess that hasn't happened yet, or if it has then it was done incorrectly.

I have my doubts about their explanation of the problem, it just didn't sound right to me.

[Finite]

Their IT systems have been a shambles right from the start - hence new management in that department. But it's still woeful.
Have you noticed as you arrive at the login screen there is a message that says "You have successfully logged in"? - Doesn't give one much confidence!

[Knot]

Their IT systems have been a shambles right from the start - hence new management in that department. But it's still woeful.
Have you noticed as you arrive at the login screen there is a message that says "You have successfully logged in"? - Doesn't give one much confidence!

Yes I have seen that one, and;

- % differences between the full site and the mobile site. My guess is one rounds down, the other up.
- Navigation on the mobile site is terrible, back button takes you right out of the screen you are in to the top menu, instead of just the screen you are on, so when viewing a loan I am constantly kicked back because I use the back button all the time. (ok so thats a me thing)
- There seems to be a real slowness in getting loan repayments to show in your account, I can tell when a loan payment has been received because the remaining payment count goes down about a day before the cash arrives. Right now I have 3 repayments doing this, and another due at the same time that is not doing this.
- Lack of a full transaction history, I grab what I can automatically every day, but it is messy and makes it hard to reconcile things.

I find their website to be lacking in so many aspects, perhaps I have picky because of my background (IT for 30 years).

[Soolaimon]

I have not had any problems with their web site now for several months. I don't know much about IT but I was aware of quite a few shortfalls in the earlier months but now it seems to be ticking along nicely. Lately I have been taking out loans only in A B and C grades and I have noticed a decrease in my arrears and also, for some reason loans being paid off seems to have slowed right down. Maybe lack of funds ex Xmas?? All in all I am quite happy with my investment and my service fees so far are not much over the 1.25% which is a lot better than Lending Crowd.

Ooops, That 1.25% was on total received, as a % of interest only it is 7.3% which is still better than Lending Crowd but not by much.

[humvee]

7898

Have a look at these odd interest rates vs the grade

[Knot]

That is very odd, wonder what is going on?

[kiwi_on_OE]

Over a day now since I raised my issue with them and no response. But they have been doing something, as my order says it has two loans in it with an annual average interest rate of 0.6%!!! But the three original loans still appear in the order. It's just that one has not been filled. So I'm guessing they're doing some manually butchery of the data to make it sort of about right. Fingers crossed.

[Darchie]

I took a photo of Loan LAI-00055155 11/2/16 @ 8.47am .... because, at the time it struck me as surely a Harmoney error ... i wonder did anyone here invest in it ... if so has the income figure been altered? ...
The loan showed monthly income after tax as $22,333.33. (can't see why they'd need to borrow 25,375)
single person aged 20-29

[Knot]

Didn't put anything into that one, I have seen similar things before though. As a general rule if their income seems way higher than what I consider likely then I won't touch it (figuring either they gamed the system and are lying, or there is a bug in the harmoney system, either way it makes me uneasy).

[Whippeedo]

Hi, how many loans repaid early?

[Whippeedo]

Hi, how many loans repaid early?


Thanks for that Halebop.
Like you I started investing around 14 months ago after doing a lot of reading on P2P overseas. I have a strong bias to D and E grade loans. Don't do A and very few B. I am happy to take 60 month loans as indications from overseas suggest that these have a similar default profile to 36 month loans. Also in the long term should reduce the amount of work involved in reinvesting. I generally take 1 or 2 units although initially I took up to 5 as I found it difficult to build the portfolio quickly enough in $25 and $50 lots.
my stats;
$75,000 invested.
1450 loans made
124 loans in arrears,
16 written off.
Annualised 20.6% gross - excluding the effect of compounding interest as I reinvest everything.

[Whippeedo]

Hi, how many loans repaid early?


7 months investing with Harmoney. Initially started with larger loan amounts, but have since moved to $25 per loan. My median investment is currently $25, with an average of around $36.

Slowly building up investment over time, with approx $3000 invested at the moment. A mix of loan grades from A to D, with a weighted average return after fees but before tax of 14.6 percent. A tad risk adverse, so no E or F grade loans.

Currently 60% of investment is for 36 month loans. Would like to increase this proportion, but have trouble finding loans with the grades I'm wanting for this term. Currently 86 loans with one in arrears (didn't make the first repayment!). Overall pretty happy, but need to see how repayments are affected by an economic slowdown. Would be interested in the ability to trade on a secondary market.

[Whippeedo]

Hi, 2 write offs from how many loans do you have in total?


Just Had my 2nd write off - Details I have below

LOAN ID: LAI-00015523

RECEIVED PAYMENTS

[Whippeedo]

But early repayments do attract the 1.25% fee to investors. This will be the death of Harmoney if their policy is not changed.


If you are trying to reconcile I think you need to back out the value of early repayments. These don't attract the fee.

When I had a small volume of loans the fees reconciled so I didn't feel any concern.

However the data extra function doesn't deliver the required features to answer this question with 100% accuracy. You could impute it by discounting the interest received on paid off loans to subsequently model what the early repayment of principal was (this won't quite be accurate because the borrower may have also been late on some repayments)... if that doesn't sound like fun Harmoney probably need to strengthen their feature-set; either via the pre-canned reporting or a richer dataset in the extract.

[Whippeedo]

I have ~500 Loans The oldest being issued in Feb 2015.

So far ~1% have been written off and ~10% are in arrears

Strangely I had one loan that was written off when the most recent payment was less then 3 weeks ago. I have asked harmoney to explain why this would happen.

Wow, you must be happy with that write off result. Are your 10% arrears in the higher risk grades disproportionately? What return have you achieved overall?

[Whippeedo]

Harmoney has some very serious structural conflicts of interest due to various policy it has created/adopted.

Some policy shouldn't be allowed and will end up in court and trail-by-media sooner than later.

I believe the Harmoney will not survive unless it adapts to a win-win-win approach with its various policy. Re-writes being the worst issue atm.

Investors will eventually boycott the funding of re-written loans and/or a competitor will emerge which does all the good things Harmoney does, but without the bad things like double dipping on fees charged to its investors and manipulating borrowers for more fees and debt.

A new crowd funded P2P operator might be able look after the interest of investors and borrowers better rather than a corporate backed P2P like Harmoney.

Any thoughts on that? If anyone seconds this idea let me know and we'll get going on this new project.

Unfortunately the current competition to Harmoney does not offer High enough returns. If the competition did it would attract huge amounts of investment and close down Harmoney rather quickly. Harmony loans should be secured like other P2P's do. No fee on early repayments. Maybe no early repayments should be allowed or have a penalty early payment fee to the borrower for cutting the loan short.

Imagine if there was a socially and ethically responsible P2P lending operator in NZ which actually delivered the returns it advertised without a one sided penalty to the investor if the borrower takes up the offer from harmoney to get some more debt.

Harmoney has done a great job in some ways, but there is room and serious need for improvement.


Anyone Else Ever Considered that Just Maybe Harmoney Uses a Few "Fakes Loans"??

I have now invested in just over 200 individual loans with Harmoney.

Just this week 3 have been repaid just a little after 1 Month of being instigated.

I recall back when investing around that time that on a particular Saturday many many of the loans had almost the same borrower criteria ( like a copy and past action! ) same words, same amount, same term length, same eranings maybe just a different south island location!

Just wondering? Harmoney would most likely earn more through the service fee than paying out 1 months inetrest??

[humvee]

Why did my last post appear then disappear? Lucky i still have most of it in copy paste....
OTE=Whippeedo;608138]Hi, 2 write offs from how many loans do you have in total?[/QUOTE]
Im only posting from phone so its hard to get exact stats at the moment but that was quite an old post. I now have 18 loans written off.
And 111 loans in arrears. Along with 108 loans repaid early. Total is over 1000

RAR as at 23/01/16 was just over 18%.
A new RAR should be published 23rd of this month

If you want ill post my grade distribution graph next time im posting from a computer.

[Whippeedo]

Yes I would love to know how the institutional investor side of things works


You guys seem to get all sorts of borrowers. Does make you wonder how they get through the 'screening' process doesn't it

There are several large funders who have put tens of millions to lend out. Wonder if they get the first dibs of all the good ones and leave the likes of you with the 'less attractive' ones. Hard to imagine that Heartland for instance had $25 invested in the cases you have raised.

Just a cynical view and pure speculation

[Whippeedo]

It is kinda fun if we weren't get screwed on early repayment. That's classic corp greed right there

[Whippeedo]

Very interesting that result. It's false advertising, misinformation or something on the part of Harmoney. Smoke and mirrors baby! Fool me once..........


At the moment Im using both harmoney and Squirrel (with hugely more in harmoney)

I cannot help but think that harmoney dont want to improve the reports because it would show the returns are below what is claimed.

These numbers are only approx due to no report to get it directly from harmoney (so I had to average the deposit dates) - If harmoney wishes to disagree with my figures I would welcome them to contact me and tell me where to access a more accurate report, If im wrong I'll happily post the revised numbers here.

I have access to figures from 2 accounts

70 Loans (D,E,F) 9.1% after fees & writeoffs (At one point this dropped to less then 1% due to writeoff's)

Over 500 Loans (D,E,F, And a few C) 11.1% after fees & writeoffs

Based on the loan selection and harmoneys advertised figures the return should be just under 20% after fees and writeoffs

[Whippeedo]

Yes that and we should be able to access any and all financial data relating to our loans/accounts. Would be nice to be able to create custom reports too. Not the currently narrow and over simplified portal.


I would like to see the following reports/figures available

Estimated annual % return base off actual last 6 or 12 months rolling average. this should use 12 months data if available on the account otherwise use 12 months

Aged amount in arrears - If some one is 2 or 3 days late (could be due to bank processing times, public holidays etc) this does not tell me much - The 2 figures I care about are arrears greater then 5 days and Mostly Arrears greater then 35 days

Also you cannot see from the full loan details from the charged off/arrears reports you need to get the loan ID then go into the orders and open each order and try and find the order that contains that loan - a very slow task given there could be 10+ orders over the 3+day period that the date of the loan could match too, When an export is done from the reports/market place screen I would like to see FULL details exported including comments, income, repayment amount, age, location, loan reason etc

[Whippeedo]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing


Just running the numbers of how bad the rewrites are, My oldest loans are 10 months old - so under a year old

Loans Older then 1 Month
9.25% Have been repaid already
Loans Older then 3 Months
14% Have Been repaid already
Loans Older then 6 Months
17% Have been Repaid Already

[Whippeedo]

HI, whats your secret to such a low default rate? You are the most confident one I've seen post.

Be cool to know how much the fees cost, and who much interest was lost by the loans which were early re payers I reckon?

That is the cream we are missing out on....The difference between the advertising return and the real return.

Big gap in returns created by a bloody bad policy of Harmoney.


Investing for about 9 months, Loans invested 450+, in that time I have had 20% paid back, now have 350+ loans.
Loan numbers charged off currently 0.08% and arrears 4.07%.

I can't reinvest faster than the loans that are being repaid.

[Whippeedo]

which grades?


Notice an upgrade to the dashboard this morning giving RAR

Mine is 16.81%

I have yet to have any final defaults(charged off principal)

Invested $40,000 in mainly $250 lots but some as $500.

[winner69]

Yes I would love to know how the institutional investor side of things works

Heartland have a special operations room with 15 staff processing the loans - like below

Hard work entering 40,000 $25 Investments in a week .... they all say phew at the end of week and then do it again the following week

[Whippeedo]

Good job. I agree with you


I'm new to Harmoney and prior to investing, did a lot of research to check out the viability and safety of p2p lending. I had several email discussions with Mark Bardi, at Harmoney, and got prompt, straight answers back which did ease any concerns I had.

I did ask for a number of stats on performance, write-offs, arrears, etc which he answered but are now being published for the world to see. Good work Harmoney!!
..............................

........................So far, 157 loans, 2 arrears (paid now), and 2 paid off. Reinvest all interest and principal received.

Happy with it so far.

[Saamee]

Current RAR = 13.31%.... I do have to keep myself 'in check' with reality, that if i was not in Harmoney the $$'s would be getting just about 2.75% in the High Street banks! Then I tell myself whatever the re-writes do, the return is still close to 5 times better!

[Whippeedo]

Its hard to believe you only had that 3 defaults in E and F grades. Please share your secret


I have read a number of times in the financial media regarding primary loans i.e.. housing loans; that a borrower having to pay more than 30% of their net income to service a mortgage could be putting themselves under financial stress.

I assume that many loans through Harmoney are additional to mortgage or rent payments.

How difficult over time would it be for a borrower to continue repaying a loan when in some bios I read, the "Repayment v Income ratio is 20-35%+? So total debt servicing could be as high as 55%+

I will never find out if some of these will default because I never invest in such loans.

Over the last 10 months with over 460 loans invested I have had 3 defaults in E, F grades only.
I have a graph of my investment spread in a previous post.

[Whippeedo]

It would be great to have Harmoney join us in these discussions


I have been wondering why, with several negative threads, and the many questions and assumptions regarding how Harmoney operates, why someone from Harmoney hasn't responded to the forum in the same way that JB (John Bolton) of Squirrel Money does on the Squirrel discussion. Surely it would be in their best interest (and ours as investors) to have them answer these questions.

I asked Mark Bardi, from Harmoney, this and he said that they have been asked by Sharetrader not to. If this is the case, I'd be keen to know why the Sharetrader moderators are more than happy for one p2p lending company to respond on here as well as pumping their product at every opportunity but won't let another company respond.

Could we get some clarity on this please? I think that this is fair if this forum is to be open and transparent to all users.

[Whippeedo]

yes agreed......


I reckon that the RAR should be updated daily.
It's all computerised; once you have a formula it should be updating real-time along with account balances etc.
Imagine if the NZX50 had all the share prices updating daily but they only published the index once a month.. Ridiculous:ohmy:

[Whippeedo]

What a shocking result


Maybe I'm an extreme case, but my RAR with Harmoney is currently -83.06%. Put in $500 initially just to test the water, put $100 each into a D1, E2, 2xE3, and an E4. One E3 was written off with no payments at all, one E3 was paid off as a rewrite, and the E2 and E4 were written off after only around $10 each paid. At the moment only the D1 is rolling along, but I don't hold out much hope for that one.

Harmoney at the moment is giving me the same feeling I get when playing blackjack at the casino and the dealer keeps hitting 21... The odds are what they are, but I'm not putting any more money into it.

[Whippeedo]

Yes I agree


There should be a penalty on the borrower for repaying early. The penalty could reduce during the loan period. My guess is if they pay within 3 months of taking out the loan the lender loses out. Not enough interest earned to pay the 1.25% and tax.

[Whippeedo]

Thanks humvee


Why did my last post appear then disappear? Lucky i still have most of it in copy paste....
OTE=Whippeedo;608138]Hi, 2 write offs from how many loans do you have in total?
Im only posting from phone so its hard to get exact stats at the moment but that was quite an old post. I now have 18 loans written off.
And 111 loans in arrears. Along with 108 loans repaid early. Total is over 1000

RAR as at 23/01/16 was just over 18%.
A new RAR should be published 23rd of this month

If you want ill post my grade distribution graph next time im posting from a computer.[/QUOTE]

[Whippeedo]

Thanks winner69. I'll add that to the list of jobs I definitely wouldn't want


Heartland have a special operations room with 15 staff processing the loans - like below

Hard work entering 40,000 $25 Investments in a week .... they all say phew at the end of week and then do it again the following week

[permutation]

Its hard to believe you only had that 3 defaults in E and F grades. Please share your secret

To date I still only have 3 defaults. These loans were taken in my first month of investing.

Even though sorting through loans is time consuming, I feel that the extra effort I put in pays off in the long run.

I analyse each loan as to what I feel is a comfortable "repayment v Income" commitment by the borrower. I then try to get an impression of the borrower through the comments they write therefore I never invest in a loan that has "NONE" in the comments section.

Many of the loans I take are for debt consolidation or home improvements, with a spattering for education, weddings and some holidays.

My composition of Loans is 72% A-C : 17,25,30% and 14,10,4% in D, E and F grades. Arrears currently running at 4.20% of Active Loans.

[Saamee]

Permutation, I had not considered working out the Arrears / Active Loans ( Outstanding Principal ) ratio - good idea. Out of 243 loans ( mainly B's ) currently 0.005%... Currently no loan defaults to date in 8 months.

[Monica@Harmoney]

Good morning @Rapeedo & @Saamee
Monica Mathis, GM of Harmoney here. Myself and my team would like to extend the offer to come in and meet us to take the Harmoney Tour. We would love to take the opportunity to show you around our business and let you know how things are done here. Monica.Mathis@Harmoney.co.nz

[permutation]

Permutation, I had not considered working out the Arrears / Active Loans ( Outstanding Principal ) ratio - good idea. Out of 243 loans ( mainly B's ) currently 0.005%... Currently no loan defaults to date in 8 months.

Saamee, the arrears I mentioned, 4.20%, in my previous post are numbers of Loans v Active numbers of loans i.e. average of 4.2 loans per 100 loans are currently in arrears, not the $ amount.

One calculation that I do have on my spreadsheet is the (Interest earned v Outstanding Principal) of my arrears; which currently stands at 10.57% but is variable as the arrears composition changes daily.

All of my arrears currently have had some payment made by the borrowers, it gives me confidence that they will keep paying. I noticed that 2 of the 3 defaults I have had in E,F grades had no payments at all for about 5 months and suddenly "boom" they were Charged off.

I have just over 300 loans A-D grade and no defaults in 11 months.

[humvee]

Good morning @Rapeedo & @Saamee
Monica Mathis, GM of Harmoney here. Myself and my team would like to extend the offer to come in and meet us to take the Harmoney Tour. We would love to take the opportunity to show you around our business and let you know how things are done here. Monica.Mathis@Harmoney.co.nz


Welcome Monica


Its good to see someone from harmoney about in the forum.


I was wondering if you could tell us if there are any improvements on the way for the information and ease of access of the information in the dashboard and reports as well as exports.


For example I want to go back and see the full details, notes and descriptions for Charged off loans. The only way for me to do this is to get the loan ID - try and guess what date the order for the loan might have been places (this guess can often be out by one or 2 days) then go to the original orders and open each order to see if the loan ID is in there if its not I have to go pack out - and it takes me back to the 1st page of orders - not where I was at, find the next order and go into that one then repeat until I find the correct order. Also It would be useful to be able to see the date a loan was charged off - currently the appears to be no way to see this


Thanks

[Saamee]

Harmoney monthly RAR updated today..... I saw a 0.5% rise! :)

[nztyke]

For those who are interested I have been with Harmoney for a full year now and this is how it panned out.

Loans: 492, (36 months 489, 60 months 3)
Average Loan $191
By Grade: A 42%, B 31%, C 16%, D 5%, E 4%, F 2%
Charged Off: 2 (0.4%)
Repaid Early: 100 (20.3) Reduced gross return by approx. 0.8%
RAR per Harmoney 12.41%
Gross Return by my calculation 11.59%

The early repayment "penalty" can be a pain but if it was shown as an estimated reduction in return on the order summary page in the same way as the expected annual default rate is shown, it would give more transparency. Remember primary function is to make a return for its shareholders.


it can be fairly time consuming have to monitor the site at least once a day; this is not a problem for me but I can see that it could be a chore for some.

Overall I am very happy with this investment, it sure beats the less the 4% received from the bank.

[permutation]

Today my RAR crossed the 14% mark! :cool:

[777]

Today my RAR crossed the 14% mark! :cool:

I take it that it crossed it in the downward direction.

[Buffett Jr]

For those who are interested I have been with Harmoney for a full year now and this is how it panned out.

Loans: 492, (36 months 489, 60 months 3)
Average Loan $191
By Grade: A 42%, B 31%, C 16%, D 5%, E 4%, F 2%
Charged Off: 2 (0.4%)
Repaid Early: 100 (20.3) Reduced gross return by approx. 0.8%
RAR per Harmoney 12.41%
Gross Return by my calculation 11.59%

The early repayment "penalty" can be a pain but if it was shown as an estimated reduction in return on the order summary page in the same way as the expected annual default rate is shown, it would give more transparency. Remember primary function is to make a return for its shareholders.


it can be fairly time consuming have to monitor the site at least once a day; this is not a problem for me but I can see that it could be a chore for some.

Overall I am very happy with this investment, it sure beats the less the 4% received from the bank.

You therefore pay your individual PIR tax on this 11.59% return?

How much time per week does it take you to monitor?

How easy is it to re-invest your interest and principal repayments into new loans? Or does your cash sit not earning in between loans?

Why are you investing here as opposed to the sharemarket which averages 10-11%?

[777]

You therefore pay your individual PIR tax on this 11.59% return?

How much time per week does it take you to monitor?

How easy is it to re-invest your interest and principal repayments into new loans? Or does your cash sit not earning in between loans?

Why are you investing here as opposed to the sharemarket which averages 10-11%?

What PIR tax? It is normal income tax and I doubt(know) you can not just select your return to declare.

[humvee]

For those who are interested I have been with Harmoney for a full year now and this is how it panned out.

Loans: 492, (36 months 489, 60 months 3)
Average Loan $191
By Grade: A 42%, B 31%, C 16%, D 5%, E 4%, F 2%
Charged Off: 2 (0.4%)
Repaid Early: 100 (20.3) Reduced gross return by approx. 0.8%
RAR per Harmoney 12.41%
Gross Return by my calculation 11.59%

The early repayment "penalty" can be a pain but if it was shown as an estimated reduction in return on the order summary page in the same way as the expected annual default rate is shown, it would give more transparency. Remember primary function is to make a return for its shareholders.


it can be fairly time consuming have to monitor the site at least once a day; this is not a problem for me but I can see that it could be a chore for some.

Overall I am very happy with this investment, it sure beats the less the 4% received from the bank.

Hi

Thanks for the info you have a lower risk/return profile in your portfolio then me.

What I would be interested to know was what % of the interest you earned did you pay in fees?

[Harvey Specter]

Harmoney monthly RAR updated today..... I saw a 0.5% rise! :)Mine went down. I am getting hammered by write offs. My RAR is still above the average but I was hoping for a higher return based on a higher risk profile - that higher risk profile doesn't seem to be paying off.

[humvee]

Mine went down. I am getting hammered by write offs. My RAR is still above the average but I was hoping for a higher return based on a higher risk profile - that higher risk profile doesn't seem to be paying off.

Mine went up - but only by 0.1% - so currently its still lower then it was the 1st month the rar was published

7900

[Bjauck]

Mine went down. I am getting hammered by write offs. My RAR is still above the average but I was hoping for a higher return based on a higher risk profile - that higher risk profile doesn't seem to be paying off. Are your actual write-offs for each grade conforming to the default default risk assigned by Harmoney? Actual write-offs do seem to be the loose cannon aspect of investor returns.

[Finite]

Mine went up - but only by 0.1% - so currently its still lower then it was the 1st month the rar was published

7900

Impressive performance (for now :)))
Do you consider the borrowers details or do you just accept Harmoneys assessment of the risk grade.

[Darchie]

I do ask also is there a way of sorting within reports to list up all loans that are in the process of being paid ... as in paid by borrower but still in harmoneys process system & yet to be paid to investor ... be good if these showed as a colour... just like the yellow is for arrears & grey is for paid off ... this would be a REAL HELP as a heads up!

[Bjauck]

Impressive performance (for now :)))
Do you consider the borrowers details or do you just accept Harmoneys assessment of the risk grade. Unfortunately the borrower details available to investors seem scant, so much reliance must be placed on Harmoney's assessment.

[Darchie]

I posted a reply to humvee re suppost of requests ... then went back to edit a typo & the whole lot vanished!
Anyway AGREE. We need a date repaid in a column on the report page for paid off loans
And
To go back to check a borrowers first request page is a frustrating exercise ... it does need to be better crossed referenced

[Finite]

Unfortunately the borrower details available to investors seem scant, so much reliance must be placed on Harmoney's assessment.

That has been my opinion but many people here place great store in placing some of their own criteria on which loans to invest in.

[humvee]

Impressive performance (for now :)))
Do you consider the borrowers details or do you just accept Harmoneys assessment of the risk grade.


I do apply a "light"/quick assessment in addition to harmoneys grade.

Eg of the 7 c,d,e,f loans on the market currently I have only invested in 4

Early on(before about xmas) I was not investing in C grade - hence the lower number of C Grade.

I don't invest in A or B grade on harmoney. As part of my diversification strategy I look to other platforms such as Squirrelmoney and Lending Crowd to fill the lower risk lower return space.

[Harvey Specter]

Mine went up - but only by 0.1% - so currently its still lower then it was the 1st month the rar was published

7900That is what I was hoping mine would be looking like. My profile is a bit different (more in E less in F) but much more heavily in the 36m camp. I wonder if the 36m are showing higher write offs?

I would have invested in over 400 loans so lack of diversification shouldn't be the issue.

[humvee]

I dont know - but my theory is 36m could have more rewrites with people borrowing more and moving to 60m so they still have the same repayments.

[humvee]

It looks like you might be right

I just ran some numbers

Out of my total loans
59% are 60 Months
41% are 36 months


27.78% Of my write offs are 60 months
72.22% Of my write offs are 36 months


51.82% of my paid off loans are 60 months
48.18% of my paid off loans are 36 months

How do your numbers compare?

[Harvey Specter]

only 20% of my loans are 60m and writeoffs are also 20% and repaid 22%. Inconclusive for me but you seem to be getting a benefit from the longer loans. I have read US data that suggests writeoffs normally happen early in the loan (regardless of 36 or 60m) which bodes well for you.

[humvee]

only 20% of my loans are 60m and writeoffs are also 20% and repaid 22%. Inconclusive for me but you seem to be getting a benefit from the longer loans. I have read US data that suggests writeoffs normally happen early in the loan (regardless of 36 or 60m) which bodes well for you.

Just pulled the stats from a smaller and lower preforming (12.05% RAR) portfolio I have access to

Out of total loans


49% are 60 Months
51% are 36 Months


60% Of writen offs are 60 months
40% Of writen offs are 36 months


33% of paid off loans are 60 months
67% of paid off loans are 36 months

[Harvey Specter]

Just pulled the stats from a smaller and lower preforming (12.05% RAR) portfolio I have access to

Out of total loans


49% are 60 Months
51% are 36 Months


60% Of writen offs are 60 months
40% Of writen offs are 36 months


33% of paid off loans are 60 months
67% of paid off loans are 36 monthsOpposite to your other portfolio then. So from our very limited sample, the only way to increase RAR is to invest more! ;)

I assume this smaller one is more conservative (A's and B's) to have a RAR that low?

I have been avoiding 60m loans while there is no secondary market as waiting 5 years to liquidate a holding is too long. As the data is inconclusive (at this point), I will keep doing this.

[humvee]

Opposite to your other portfolio then. So from our very limited sample, the only way to increase RAR is to invest more! ;)

I assume this smaller one is more conservative (A's and B's) to have a RAR that low?

I have been avoiding 60m loans while there is no secondary market as waiting 5 years to liquidate a holding is too long. As the data is inconclusive (at this point), I will keep doing this.

No It is also c,d,e,f and 50% of the loans in it were also picked by me using the same general methods

7901

I would be very interested for others to post the same figures for their portifolio so we had get a better idea if there is truely a difference between 36m and 60m in rewrites and write offs

[permutation]

I would be very interested for others to post the same figures for their portifolio so we had get a better idea if there is truely a difference between 36m and 60m in rewrites and write offs

My Rar has increased to over 14% in the latest update.

Have had 3 charged off loans E,F grades only, out of a total of just under 500 loans in the last 11 months. Rewrites currently are about 25% of the total loans I have invested, and of those loans repaid ~85% were for a 36 month term.
7903

[nztyke]

You therefore pay your individual PIR tax on this 11.59% return?

How much time per week does it take you to monitor?


How easy is it to re-invest your interest and principal repayments into new loans? Or does your cash sit not earning in ebetween loans?

Why are you investing here as opposed to the sharemarket which averages 10-11%?

Buffett

1. I probably spend on average half an hour a day on it

2.Because I check my account every day surplus cash gets reinvested almost immediately.

3. Its called diversification, Harmoney only represents about 4% of my portfolio, the balance being in stocks, bonds, property and cash. I must admit though that at the moment it is the most fun investment.

[nztyke]

Hi

Thanks for the info you have a lower risk/return profile in your portfolio then me.

What I would be interested to know was what % of the interest you earned did you pay in fees?

Humvee
Sorry I meant to include that figure: it was 8.7%

[nztyke]

Unfortunately the borrower details available to investors seem scant, so much reliance must be placed on Harmoney's assessment.

When I was in business we had 2000+ customers and I relied on our credit manager and his team to assess the risks (Early in the piece I made some decisions and I was too often taken in by a plausible sob story). I look on Harmoney the same way: credit management is their area of expertise, not mine.

[nztyke]

[QUOTE=

I have been avoiding 60m loans while there is no secondary market as waiting 5 years to liquidate a holding is too long. As the data is inconclusive (at this point), I will keep doing this.[/QUOTE]

i agree, when when one gets to a certain age one doesn't want to leave one's executors with assets that are going to take five years to realise; 3 years is bad enough. I for one would greatly appreciate a secondary market facility.

[permutation]

When I was in business we had 2000+ customers and I relied on our credit manager and his team to assess the risks (Early in the piece I made some decisions and I was too often taken in by a plausible sob story). I look on Harmoney the same way: credit management is their area of expertise, not mine.

So you never assess any of the loan bios to give you an impression of the borrower especially the repayment v income ratio.
How do you feel about a loan when a borrower's monthly repayment is say 20-25% of their monthly (after tax) income as posted on the website?

[Cool Bear]

It looks like you might be right

I just ran some numbers

Out of my total loans 1603 loans in total
59% are 60 Months 71% 1141
41% are 36 months 29% 463


27.78% Of my write offs are 60 months 6 loans
72.22% Of my write offs are 36 months 4 loans


51.82% of my paid off loans are 60 months 63.24% 117 loans
48.18% of my paid off loans are 36 months 36.76% 68 loans

How do your numbers compare?

Hi Humvee, I have been in harmoney about 7 to 8 months and have 1603 loans. My figures are next to yours above in green for easy comparison. What is the total number of loans you have in the above?

It does looks like the 60 months are better in terms of less paid off (10.25% vs 14.69%) and less write off (0.526% compared to 0.863%). Maybe I should change my criteria to favour 60 months. But need to analyse more when I have the time as all 10 of the writeoffs are from the first two months I invested so may have to base the writeoff figures on just those 2 months.

[humvee]

Site is down.... I wonder if we will see some new features or improvements.




We’ll be back soon!

Sorry for the inconvenience but we’re performing some maintenance at the moment, we’ll be back online shortly!

— Team Harmoney

[Cool Bear]

Site is down.... I wonder if we will see some new features or improvements.




We’ll be back soon!

Sorry for the inconvenience but we’re performing some maintenance at the moment, we’ll be back online shortly!

— Team Harmoney
got that message about 40 minutes ago and cannot sign since.

[humvee]

Hi Humvee, I have been in harmoney about 7 to 8 months and have 1603 loans. My figures are next to yours above in green for easy comparison. What is the total number of loans you have in the above?

It does looks like the 60 months are better in terms of less paid off (10.25% vs 14.69%) and less write off (0.526% compared to 0.863%). Maybe I should change my criteria to favour 60 months. But need to analyse more when I have the time as all 10 of the writeoffs are from the first two months I invested so may have to base the writeoff figures on just those 2 months.

I have somewhere around 1300

[permutation]

Hi Humvee, I have been in harmoney about 7 to 8 months and have 1603 loans. My figures are next to yours above in green for easy comparison. What is the total number of loans you have in the above?

It does looks like the 60 months are better in terms of less paid off (10.25% vs 14.69%) and less write off (0.526% compared to 0.863%). Maybe I should change my criteria to favour 60 months. But need to analyse more when I have the time as all 10 of the writeoffs are from the first two months I invested so may have to base the writeoff figures on just those 2 months.

Impressive figures regarding write-offs "Cool Bear" I have a third of your loans but similar proportion of write-off figures early on in the piece!

[Cool Bear]

Impressive figures regarding write-offs "Cool Bear" I have a third of your loans but similar proportion of write-off figures early on in the piece!
your 3 out of 500 is a touch better than my 10 out of 1600. My worry is that all 10 are from my first 2 months so far. That means that in time the latter months will also go bad and the writeoff rate is far from being the true rate yet!! I think we need to be in at least 18 to 30 months to get the true picture.

[Darchie]

So you never assess any of the loan bios to give you an impression of the borrower especially the repayment v income ratio.
How do you feel about a loan when a borrower's monthly repayment is say 20-25% of their monthly (after tax) income as posted on the website?

But it's not revealed a persons full debt ... so some monthly repayments do look to be a reasonable percentage of monthly income... but their monthly outgoings are not stated!! This would be helpful OR SCARY!

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi Humvee. Thanks for the welcome. Indeed, we had to ask permission again and we are now in. Both of the improvements you suggested are on the roadmap and will be executed very soon. I will keep you in the loop as we get closer. We are at the moment testing new statements which have significantly more information and the additional information re: charge offs is on its way also. Check out the market statistics page - it was updated yesterday to see the platform performance. Monica monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[humvee]

Hi Humvee. Thanks for the welcome. Indeed, we had to ask permission again and we are now in. Both of the improvements you suggested are on the roadmap and will be executed very soon. I will keep you in the loop as we get closer. We are at the moment testing new statements which have significantly more information and the additional information re: charge offs is on its way also. Check out the market statistics page - it was updated yesterday to see the platform performance. Monica monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

Sounds good

Could the More detailed Employment Type Information that is shown on the page below and also I see now used for some of your market place statistics slides please be added into the loan selection screen information

http://www.mortgagerates.co.nz/p2p-loans.html


Something else interesting for the market place stats would also be what we have just been discussing..... 36month vs 60month defaults and early repayments

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi Humvee. Absolutely - let me put these through our IT team to size and put on the enhancements list. Great to see we have paid out $15m in interest to our investors so far (see market statistics page). Outage the other night was for 3 hours - hope it didn't inconvenience you guys too much. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Knot]

Hi Monica,

I would be interested in the percentage of loans that default/go into arrears that have never made a single payment. To me it is a good indicator how well you are doing with your initial vetting (Just reading the board here seems to indicate there are a few).

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi Knot
By No of loans, its circa 10bps or 0.10% or by $ value of loans, less than 5bps or 0.05%. We would always expect there will be an element of this and it is well within our forecast expectations. Please look also at overall portfolio performance as the static loss graphs in the market statistics pages show you, we are well within expectations across the grades. monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[kiwi_on_OE]

Hi Monica

Can you give us a date when you will change your service fee structure that you are currently reviewing? I have previously been told this is happening, and had expected it to be complete by now, based on what I was told.

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi Kiwi-on_OE
No date and no decisions. Will let you know as soon as we are able of any changes in relation to fees and charges. In the meantime, our fees and charges are as per listed on our site. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Darchie]

Hi Monica
I'd be interested to know:

Is there a way of sorting 'within reports' to list up all loans that are in the process of being paid ....... as in paid by borrower but still in harmoneys process system & yet to be paid out to the investor ...
It would be Really Helpful if these showed as a colour... just like the yellow is for arrears & grey is for paid of. ...... is this possible?

[Knot]

Darchie, Not a perfect solution but you can already tell, the number of payments will reduce about 24-48 hours before you actually receive the funds into your investor account.

[Cool Bear]

Hi Monica

Can we have another column in the list of charge off showing when the charge off was made? When one have 1000's of loans, I will expect the list to grow very long and it will be much easier to know which ones were the latest to be written off. Quite difficult to update my own records at the moment. Thanks

[Darchie]

Just wondering if anyone else has same impression as me:

Over last week Harmoney just seem to be lagging behind schedule & today it's like nothing much is happening at all!!! ... yet for me it should have ...

This highlights why not having a proper type statement to check all funds in and out is like trying to fly in the dark! It's great that LendingCrowd do have a statement to view.
This above adds to why I asked about having at least that colour highlight on payments that are in harmoneys processing systems... my other reason was a quick way to access projected time management .. (would save on the continual need to check in so often! )

[Knot]

Couldn't agree more, the inability to see important information easily is a real problem, I'd like to see the ability to get a full transaction history, configurable email/sms notifications on events (eg loan full funded and accepted, more than X in your investor account, loan repaid in full, etc).

Currently I grab a csv export of my loans every day automatically and then import it into a database, I am still creating the front end but the idea being to have my own dashboard with all the information I want. I really should scrape the front page as well for other useful bits (as opposed to trying to derive them from the data I do have)

I'd also really love it if I could set a preference that turned on "rewrite auto transfer" - if one of my loans was being rewritten my current investment in that loan is rolled into the new loan (with no 1.25% charge), obviously this would need to be worked out so that it was rolled up or down to the nearest $25 depending on funds being available in my account). I see this as a win for everyone, I don't get hit with the 1.25%, or have idle funds, the borrower gets funded faster, and Harmoney doesn't have grumpy investors, although they lose that lovely 1.25% tax on a rewrite.

[mlt322]

Hi Monica and welcome to the Forum. I've been having excellent communication with Mark Bardi before and since joining Harmoney, including asking the question, why are you not here. Better late than never ;-). We look forward to your input and contribution.

[Finite]

Hi Monica,
Welcome.
I would really like to hear the state of your discussions with IRD regarding investors being able to deduct your service fee and charge offs against income for tax purposes.
The out come of this has big implications for the returns of investors.
Regards

[777]

Hi Monica,
Welcome.
I would really like to hear the state of your discussions with IRD regarding investors being able to deduct your service fee and charge offs against income for tax purposes.
The out come of this has big implications for the returns of investors.
Regards




This has been discussed before. Service fee (costs of earning revenue) is deductible the write offs (capital loss) are not. Go back and have a look.

[Finite]

This has been discussed before. Service fee (costs of earning revenue) is deductible the write offs (capital loss) are not. Go back and have a look.
This is clearly not the case as Harmoney would allow for it in their tax withholding.
Earlier comments had said that Harmoney were having discussions with the IRD to get a clear ruling of this new investment class.

[Monica@Harmoney]

HI there, check out our Investor FAQs on the site. We expect that fees paid by investors to Harmoney will be tax deductible. As each investors circumstances are different, we recommend that you(they) seek independent tax advice tat suits their objectives, financial situation and needs. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[777]

This is clearly not the case as Harmoney would allow for it in their tax withholding.



Rubbish. Harmoney is required to deduct RWT(Resident withholding tax) from gross interest earned. Any expenses against that income is your responsibility when you file your tax return. Your knowledge of NZ's tax regime needs attention.

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi Cool Bear - we will put this onto our enhancements list. Cheers for the feedback. Monica.maths@harmoney.co.nz

[Bjauck]

HI there, check out our Investor FAQs on the site. We expect that fees paid by investors to Harmoney will be tax deductible. As each investors circumstances are different, we recommend that you(they) seek independent tax advice tat suits their objectives, financial situation and needs. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

In relation to the (not in business) individual taxpayer, of whom there must be many investing with Harmoney, I have had email discussions with Harmoney on the deductibility of charge-offs. The response from Harmoney: For charged off principal, due to that fact that we’re such a new asset class, it’s still up for debate. The IRD has not given us a definitive answer to this question. Harmoney is pursuing this matter with the IRD so we can give our investors a definite answer. Unfortunately there is no exact time frame on when it will arrive.

So the question remains: Is Harmoney still pursuing the IRD for an answer tothis question?
Or do all individual taxpayer investors need to seek professional advice (as it is a new asset class the professionals may need to undertake their own research). Whereas Harmoney could seek a ruling which could apply to a large class of its investors?

For an individual taxpayer, the extra cost of employing a professional to determine whether charge-offs (and indeed service charges) are deductible for an individual in itself will undermine their return from Harmoney in the first year - depending on the size of their investment.

[Harvey Specter]

So the question remains: Is Harmoney still pursuing the IRD for an answer to this question?
Or do all individual taxpayer investors need to seek professional advice (as it is a new asset class the professionals may need to undertake their own research). Whereas Harmoney could seek a ruling which could apply to a large class of its investors?A ruling can not be sought as it depends on the individuals fact situation. A rule can only be on application of law, not fact.

The best we could hope for is a (non binding) press release or 'questions we've been asked' from IRD.

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi all
On the subject of transactions and statements. We are in the middle of enhancing our statements and they will be out soon. You will receive an email letting you know when they are complete. They will enhance the reporting of transactions - we hope you enjoy. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Bjauck]

A ruling can not be sought as it depends on the individuals fact situation. A rule can only be on application of law, not fact.

The best we could hope for is a (non binding) press release or 'questions we've been asked' from IRD. Sorry "Ruling" is the wrong word...At risk of repetition, guidance for various classes (such as company taxpayers, individuals and individuals in the business) of investors is often sought by companies for the effect of proposals and actions. Harmoney have said they are pursuing this matter with the IRD so we can give our investors a definite answer.

SO it remains a reasonable question to ask if Harmoney are still pursuing the matter with the IRD so they can then pass on the response to their investors

[Finite]

SO it remains a reasonable question to ask if Harmoney are still pursuing the matter with the IRD so they can then pass on the response to their investors
Well said!
So Monica, can you please respond?

[Harvey Specter]

of investors is often sought by companies for the effect of proposals and actions.Really? Only on application of law, not application of fact.

[Bjauck]

Really? Only on application of law, not application of fact. Guidance on the application of the tax law, for various types of taxpayers, in relation to the deductions would be good. What type of taxpayer a particular investor is, is a separate issue.


Well said!
So Monica, can you please respond? I guess no response indicates that they are no longer seeking guidance from the IRD.

[777]

And nor are they obliged to. do you think everyone in the Hannover debacle claimed their non return of deposits as a loss. Come on get real.

[Bjauck]

And nor are they obliged to. do you think everyone in the Hannover debacle claimed their non return of deposits as a loss. Come on get real.
1. Harmoney's Peer-to-peer is a new type of financial arrangement (with indication given by Harmoney as to default rate).
2. No they are not obliged to give guidance
2a. Despite this they had indicated they were seeking guidance.
3. Which is why I am asking their representative on this thread if Harmoney is in fact still seeking guidance.

[humvee]

Bjauck & finite.
I do think the question " If Harmoney are still pursuing the matter with the IRD so they can then pass on the response to their investors?" Is a reasonable question to ask and I too would like an answer to it. But you do need to allow a reasonable time for a response. I would rather get the right / most accurate response even if this takes a few days longer.

[mlt322]

Bjauck & finite.
I do think the question " If Harmoney are still pursuing the matter with the IRD so they can then pass on the response to their investors?" Is a reasonable question to ask and I too would like an answer to it. But you do need to allow a reasonable time for a response. I would rather get the right / most accurate response even if this takes a few days longer.

Thank you humvee :rolleyes:

[Bjauck]

Bjauck & finite.
I do think the question " If Harmoney are still pursuing the matter with the IRD so they can then pass on the response to their investors?" Is a reasonable question to ask and I too would like an answer to it. But you do need to allow a reasonable time for a response. I would rather get the right / most accurate response even if this takes a few days longer. Agree. I should have said that no response from Harmoney will indicate that they are no longing seeking guidance. I imagine someone at Harmoney should be able to say Yay or Nay.

[Saamee]

Table with current experience with Repaid Loans ....

7915

[permutation]

Has any one else have any loans invested this weekend that, when looking at the loans funded list they show 100% funded but on the dashboard they still show as a $ amount
" In funding" ( as at 2200 on 28/02/16) and have not appeared in the "loans invested list". This has happened to me several times before in the last 10 months, the loans just appear to be in limbo sometimes for two days.
Have tried to make enquiries about this type of situation with Harmoney before, but in my opinion it's like communicating with a wall.

[Knot]

I have seen it, the one time I got an answer it was because the applicant didn't take the loan up, complicated by the fact it was a rewrite so money went all over the place and got stuck for about a week. That particular time it got stuck at 98% but was showing as funded, other times it was 100%, funded, and not taken up for a few days, but eventually it was.

[Monica@Harmoney]

Permutation - I have not heard that you had a query regarding this matter. If you could email the exact loans you are referring to - I can certainly look into it for you.

Funded loans - in relation to the timing between the dashboard and your loans invested list - there is sometimes a delay between these. We have to go through the entire transaction, fractionalise the amounts before we update your dashboard - so your reports will always be faster. This is because we have batch jobs that need to run first before we are able to update your dashboards. The system is not 'live' - i.e. to the second, but it certainly does update on a regular basis to ensure that all transactions have been taken into account - that means those coming from the banks (all banks), in's and out's.

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi all, we are looking at a way in which we can get further information regarding tax. But it does depend on whether you are a 'professional' or '
incidental' lender. That is why each persons tax liabilities are their own and very personal to your own circumstances. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Bjauck]

Hi all, we are looking at a way in which we can get further information regarding tax. But it does depend on whether you are a 'professional' or '
incidental' lender. That is why each persons tax liabilities are their own and very personal to your own circumstances. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz I would have though that Harmoney could get guidance for both classes of investors - professional and incidental. Obviously it would then be up to the investors themelves, with accountant help, to determine to which class, professional or incidental, they belong.

Anyway thanks for you answer as it is helpful in that it indicates that guidance on the question of law from Harmoney is not imminent and not likely for the current tax year. So, as far as I am concerned, my question of Harmoney has been resolved.

[Harvey Specter]

Bjauck - I have already said the law is clear. 'professional = deductible, 'incidental' = non-deductible. The difficult bit is trying to determine which category you are in and that is fact driven, which IRD can give a ruling on and as you state in your post, you need to talk to your accountant about.

If you are a wage or salary earner, and you invest in Harmoney in your own name, my view* is you are incidental. If you invest via an entity that all it does in invest in a diversified portfolio of investments, then you are probably 'professional' but IRD may try to argue a higher standard (ie.not 'professional' or 'in the business of' unless that investment is substantial).

​* from someone anonymous on the inernet

[Bjauck]

​* from someone anonymous on the inernet
Unlike the investor in the Hanover collapse example previously mentioned, a $10,000 investment by an incidental individual (non-entity) investor in Harmoney can actually involve decisions to invest in perhaps 400 different loans in various $25 multiples with subsequent investments in loans throughout the year. Each loan is given a percentage probability of being charged off. The charge-offs together with the service charges are a contemplated expense of the investment with Harmoney. That is why I think guidance from the IRD on this new type of financial arrangement with (capital)charge-offs likely to occur on a regular basis would be welcome.

As I understand it, the total return (capital and income) from Financial arrangements even for an "incidental" or "portfolio" investor is taxable. Unless the loss in capital is due to a loss in credit-worthiness. As a certain percentage loss had been contemplated each time an investor invested in notes of certain grades (with an expected capital loss incorporated in the expected return figures supplied by Harmoney) then would an actual (contemplated) charge off actually be due to loss in credit worthiness? Also Harmoney itself has not suffered any loss in credit-worthiness and they are the ones who make the actual interest payments and deductions to the investors accounts. Your "return" from your Harmoney financial arrangement is actually your gross interest less all deductions and their credit rating is not affected by the bankruptcy of any one individual they lend your "notes" to.

Anyway I agree, until guidance is forthcoming, it would be best for an "incidental" "non-entity" investor to treat charge-offs as definitely non-deductible.
Disclaimer: These are my non-professional anonymous opinions! Definitely Do You Own Research.

[Harvey Specter]

Interesting/good points Bjauck but I dont think that is the way the legislation is drafted.The point about effort (400+ loans vs just 1 bought after recommendation from a broker) is a good one as I dont think there are many places that say an activity requires a certain $ amount before it becomes a business. A business is just using effort (labour or capital) to produce a positive return.

interesting point that the interest is paid by Harmoney. I think they may only be treated as an agent so the interest actually comes from the borrower.

[Bjauck]

interesting point that the interest is paid by Harmoney. I think they may only be treated as an agent so the interest actually comes from the borrower.

The agency aspect is interesting. I don't know much about the law of agency. However with other loans arranged by an agent I think that the principal (as opposed to the agent) actually becomes the lender and enters a contract with the borrower whereas I don't think that happens when Harmoney allots a note to an investor. The investor does not enter a contract with the borrower.

Indeed Harmoney also determines how much information is passed on to the investor in relation to the loan and the borrower. Would an investor even intend to have a contractual relationship with the borrower that was independent of Harmoney?

I think Harmoney determines when and how borrower defaults are passed on to investors and this is part of the financial arrangement contract between Harmoney and the investor.

[Knot]

A Trustee is the middleman in all Harmoney loans.

[Bjauck]

A Trustee is the middleman in all Harmoney loans.So simply put, the way I see it, is...Harmoney enters into a financial arrangement with the Investor who then deposits their money into an account held by the trustee. Harmoney then enters into financial arrangements with the borrowers who then deposit their payments into an account held by the trustee. So the investor's financial arrangement is with Harmoney who, in the normal and solvent course of their operations and according to the contract with the investor, deduct charge-offs to the investor's account. My untrustworthy opinion only.

[Knot]

Borrower Agreement:
18. Immediately after Harmoney has provided the Loan Disclosure to you, a Loan Contract will come into existence under which the Trustee (who will be the lender of the Loan) will agree to advance the Loan Amount to you.

Investors Agreement:
11. Every Loan you fund through the Service will be made by the Trustee (acting through Harmoney as its agent). The Trustee will then hold that Loan on a bare trust for the benefit of yourself and every other Participating Investor in accordance with clause 15.

The investor agreement goes into some detail about the Trustee role; https://www.harmoney.co.nz/how-it-works/legal/investor-agreement

btw the Trustee has Harmoney as it's agent, so in some ways it is all smoke and mirrors (ie the trustee doesn't actually do anything)

[Bjauck]

So the Trustee has the financial arrangement with the Borrower and Harmoney has the financial arrangement with the the Investor?

[Knot]

I understand it to be both have an agreement with the trustee and Harmoney is merely the trustee's agent.

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi there Knot and Bjauck
I refer you to the Harmoney Disclosure Statement which sets out how the trustee works.
https://www.harmoney.co.nz/how-it-works/legal/disclosure-statement

[Darchie]

OMG..... Now i see on offer an A4 with a monthly income of $45,431.00 ..... LAI-00058406 !!!!
I say with tongue in cheek .. surely this person shouldn't need to borrow from the likes of Harmoney!!!

[777]

Obviously a typo BUT that should not happen.

[Monica@Harmoney]

OMG..... Now i see on offer an A4 with a monthly income of $45,431.00 ..... LAI-00058406 !!!!
I say with tongue in cheek .. surely this person shouldn't need to borrow from the likes of Harmoney!!!

Hi Darchie - yes this is a bug - and we are fixing it immediately. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Knot]

I'm not sure if this is a bug, something new, or I have been blind in the past.

All my loans now show an amount in the service fee section. I don't know if this is what the fee will be for each repayment, the total so far (better not be), or something else?

7919

[mjplost]

I'm not sure if this is a bug, something new, or I have been blind in the past.

All my loans now show an amount in the service fee section. I don't know if this is what the fee will be for each repayment, the total so far (better not be), or something else?

7919

Just saw that as well. Seems as if its the service fee per note.

[Cool Bear]

I'm not sure if this is a bug, something new, or I have been blind in the past.

All my loans now show an amount in the service fee section. I don't know if this is what the fee will be for each repayment, the total so far (better not be), or something else?

7919
Hi Knot (& Mathismo)
I had a quick look at different loans (paid off, charge off, current, new, etc) and realised that the $ figure for service fee is just 1.25% of the principal we invested. So, it is not much information as it is not the amount charged or the amount to be charged (which includes 1.25% on interest) as well. So, it does not tell us anything new at all! A meaningful figure would be the actual service fee that was charged!

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi Knot (& Mathismo)
I had a quick look at different loans (paid off, charge off, current, new, etc) and realised that the $ figure for service fee is just 1.25% of the principal we invested. So, it is not much information as it is not the amount charged or the amount to be charged (which includes 1.25% on interest) as well. So, it does not tell us anything new at all! A meaningful figure would be the actual service fee that was charged!

Im looking into this for you now. Get back to you asap. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Knot]

Hi Knot (& Mathismo)
I had a quick look at different loans (paid off, charge off, current, new, etc) and realised that the $ figure for service fee is just 1.25% of the principal we invested. So, it is not much information as it is not the amount charged or the amount to be charged (which includes 1.25% on interest) as well. So, it does not tell us anything new at all! A meaningful figure would be the actual service fee that was charged!

Seems to be a bit of a rounding issue too, a single note ($25) has a service fee of $0.31, two notes ($50) has a service fee of $0.63. I would of expected 2 notes to be double 1 note if it is 1.25% of the principal. The only thing I can think of is the round up/down issue I have seen in other parts of the website strikes again.

Personally I am not interested in rounded figures, they don't give me accurate information, just give me the complete data in an exportable format (or even better, an API I can query).

[Monica@Harmoney]

Seems to be a bit of a rounding issue too, a single note ($25) has a service fee of $0.31, two notes ($50) has a service fee of $0.63. I would of expected 2 notes to be double 1 note if it is 1.25% of the principal. The only thing I can think of is the round up/down issue I have seen in other parts of the website strikes again.

Personally I am not interested in rounded figures, they don't give me accurate information, just give me the complete data in an exportable format (or even better, an API I can query).

Completely get that - we have removed the figure as it appears to be pulling incorrectly from the API. Will be back in touch soon. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Monica@Harmoney]

Completely get that - we have removed the figure as it appears to be pulling incorrectly from the API. Will be back in touch soon. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

Please see our FAQs for Investors online for 'rounding'. https://www.harmoney.co.nz/how-it-works/investor-faq
Regards Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Knot]

Please see our FAQs for Investors online for 'rounding'. https://www.harmoney.co.nz/how-it-works/investor-faq
Regards Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

New faq section? Now that I think about it, it would be useful to know when the faq had last been updated.

I get the rounding of numbers, and I pretty much ignore what I consider rounding errors on the site, but as someone who likes to track things closely I'm not that interested in rounded numbers, I'd much prefer the real number in the export files (aka 8 decimal places), the web interface I can live with being rounded to $xxx.xx style numbers as it is only useful for quick reference anyway.

Because the export of data is limited, we have to calculate ourselves other data from that, in excel for some, or python/javascript in my case. (Example if I want to know detailed transactions per loan I have to calculate the value of principal and interest on each payment from the difference between two csv exports, I can't simply look them up because I only receive an incremental amount for each loan.) I am hoping that in the future a proper tranaction history will be made available.

I am not trying to be negative, I love the Harmoney platform, I just want it better :)

[humvee]

Hi Monica

Is there any update on this ... given it is march

WHEN WILL PAYMENT PROTECT BE OPEN TO RETAIL INVESTORS?
We expect this product to be available by approximately mid-February 2016. But don't worry; we will notify you as soon as we can with an exact date.

[Darchie]

I do get the feeling this thread has pulled up on momentum somewhat!

But i have a couple of questions for Monica

Is there any plan to allow joint investors to register? This is an important question ...

And Mark's told me that the 1.25% fee charged on both interest & principal (which is LETHAL on our returns on these reoccurring Re-Writes) ... is going to be addressed ...

I ask when is this dreadful fee structure going to be fixed? .... I'd like to know what's happening with this, as i will not plonk any more funds into Harmoney until this is addressed.

Awaiting your response Monica

[Finite]

I would like to hear about the latest plans for a secondary market - the lack of one is stopping me investing more.
How about just getting the institutional funders to agree to purchase any loans from retail investors at their face value of outstanding principal?

[Knot]

I would like to hear about the latest plans for a secondary market - the lack of one is stopping me investing more.
How about just getting the institutional funders to agree to purchase any loans from retail investors at their face value of outstanding principal?

I don't think it is that simple, from memory their license from the FMA needs to be altered to allow them to have a secondary market. (I could be recalling this wrong and/or they may have already applied for a variation.)

[Whippeedo]

Great idea


Couldn't agree more, the inability to see important information easily is a real problem, I'd like to see the ability to get a full transaction history, configurable email/sms notifications on events (eg loan full funded and accepted, more than X in your investor account, loan repaid in full, etc).

Currently I grab a csv export of my loans every day automatically and then import it into a database, I am still creating the front end but the idea being to have my own dashboard with all the information I want. I really should scrape the front page as well for other useful bits (as opposed to trying to derive them from the data I do have)

I'd also really love it if I could set a preference that turned on "rewrite auto transfer" - if one of my loans was being rewritten my current investment in that loan is rolled into the new loan (with no 1.25% charge), obviously this would need to be worked out so that it was rolled up or down to the nearest $25 depending on funds being available in my account). I see this as a win for everyone, I don't get hit with the 1.25%, or have idle funds, the borrower gets funded faster, and Harmoney doesn't have grumpy investors, although they lose that lovely 1.25% tax on a rewrite.

[Whippeedo]

Thanks for sharing. I'm up to about 170 loans now after 3 months. No bad results yet. Takes time to get momentum. Will report after the first 6 months results are in

[Whippeedo]

Amen. I agree


I had a loan repaid in full 3 days ago, it was 10 days after it was taken out. They took their 1.25%, so I lost some of my principal. This and losing principal on rewrites are two of the things that hold me back from putting large amounts into the platform. (Yes I am a gambler in this regard) The other major thing for me is poor transaction reporting, so much is only available as a summary, no real transaction log.

[Whippeedo]

Thanks permutation. My spread is A 19% B 20% C 42% D 17% E 2%. 170 loans into $20K so far. Testing waters to see if serious money is safe here.


To date I still only have 3 defaults. These loans were taken in my first month of investing.

Even though sorting through loans is time consuming, I feel that the extra effort I put in pays off in the long run.

I analyse each loan as to what I feel is a comfortable "repayment v Income" commitment by the borrower. I then try to get an impression of the borrower through the comments they write therefore I never invest in a loan that has "NONE" in the comments section.

Many of the loans I take are for debt consolidation or home improvements, with a spattering for education, weddings and some holidays.

My composition of Loans is 72% A-C : 17,25,30% and 14,10,4% in D, E and F grades. Arrears currently running at 4.20% of Active Loans.

[Finite]

170 loans into $20K so far. Testing waters to see if serious money is safe here.

Your money is safe (ish) here until the economy tanks and people start losing their jobs in big numbers - then all bets are off.

[Bjauck]

Your money is safe (ish) here until the economy tanks and people start losing their jobs in big numbers - then all bets are off. It depends which grades of loans your money is in. If A and even B grades start to see serious numbers of charge-offs, then I would guess many other financial investments are in trouble with share prices falling and the possibility arising of hair-cuts at big banks. Redundancy and/or Bankruptcy of house-owners, whether owner-occupied or investment rental, would mean the property-bubble would be collapsing, so bricks and mortar would be no refuge in such a situation I imagine.

[Bjauck]

I would like to hear about the latest plans for a secondary market - the lack of one is stopping me investing more.
How about just getting the institutional funders to agree to purchase any loans from retail investors at their face value of outstanding principal? With the current number of rewrites, quite a few loans do not reach their first anniversary. Of the rest, some are charged off:( and some are repaid before their original maturity date anyway. But I agree it would be good to have a secondary market.

[Saamee]

Is anyone else experiencing 'Lock Ups' and incomplete Pages loading on Harmoney this week? Nearly every other time I am finding when I click on INVEST it fails to load and show any loans?

[Harvey Specter]

No problems here. And the updates that came thorugh yesterday look good (Graph of your RAR and investor statements.).

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi Monica

Is there any update on this ... given it is march

WHEN WILL PAYMENT PROTECT BE OPEN TO RETAIL INVESTORS?
We expect this product to be available by approximately mid-February 2016. But don't worry; we will notify you as soon as we can with an exact date.

We are still in Private Beta phase - and we hope to go live soon. Be in touch soon. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi Monica

Is there any update on this ... given it is march

WHEN WILL PAYMENT PROTECT BE OPEN TO RETAIL INVESTORS?
We expect this product to be available by approximately mid-February 2016. But don't worry; we will notify you as soon as we can with an exact date.


I do get the feeling this thread has pulled up on momentum somewhat!

But i have a couple of questions for Monica

Is there any plan to allow joint investors to register? This is an important question ...

And Mark's told me that the 1.25% fee charged on both interest & principal (which is LETHAL on our returns on these reoccurring Re-Writes) ... is going to be addressed ...

I ask when is this dreadful fee structure going to be fixed? .... I'd like to know what's happening with this, as i will not plonk any more funds into Harmoney until this is addressed.

Awaiting your response Monica

Hi there Darchie.
We are working on the new fee structure and this should be announced shortly. And it will address the rewrite. I'll check on the joint investors - not one that I am aware of that has been asked for by others. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi Monica

Is there any update on this ... given it is march

WHEN WILL PAYMENT PROTECT BE OPEN TO RETAIL INVESTORS?
We expect this product to be available by approximately mid-February 2016. But don't worry; we will notify you as soon as we can with an exact date.


Is anyone else experiencing 'Lock Ups' and incomplete Pages loading on Harmoney this week? Nearly every other time I am finding when I click on INVEST it fails to load and show any loans?

Check your filters - might need widening to ensure there are loans to see. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Monica@Harmoney]

No problems here. And the updates that came thorugh yesterday look good (Graph of your RAR and investor statements.).

And you can now see borrower details in your purchased loans - click on the ID - and borrower details are there to view. monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[mjplost]

And you can now see borrower details in your purchased loans - click on the ID - and borrower details are there to view. monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

Noticed that this morning! Nice work, very helpful.

[Darchie]

Hi mathismo
Having this swift access to borrower details is Really really Good .. but it's made me realise just how often I relied on checking the:

... 'actual amount they'd borrowed' ...

would be helpful to see that figure included in the detail, if possible!

and Having access to the more user friendly transaction statements is GR8.
Very helpful Ta

[kiwi_on_OE]

Hi there Darchie.
We are working on the new fee structure and this should be announced shortly. And it will address the rewrite. I'll check on the joint investors - not one that I am aware of that has been asked for by others. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

They have been saying this for a while now, so I wouldn't hold you breath.

My re-writes have all happened within a month (or so) of the loans being taken out. But I'm pretty new to Harmoney, so I imagine that will change.

[kiwi_on_OE]

What's other peoples experience with loans going into arrears at the first payment?

[Saamee]

What's other peoples experience with loans going into arrears at the first payment?


Yes had at least 10 loans that have never rcecieved a 1st payment - some are from August last year - however still not written off yet!

[kiwi_on_OE]

Yes had at least 10 loans that have never rcecieved a 1st payment - some are from August last year - however still not written off yet!

Thx Saamee. So you've never received any payments on those ten loans? Getting into arrears on the first payment surprises me. Perhaps I'd be less surprised if it was an E or F category loan, more surprised on A or B loans. I would be interested to know the typical profile of delinquent loans. So not what percentage have been deliquent, but when it happens eg. http://blog.zopa.com/2006/07/13/bad-debt-rates/

[Knot]

2 so far have never made a payment

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi mathismo
Having this swift access to borrower details is Really really Good .. but it's made me realise just how often I relied on checking the:

... 'actual amount they'd borrowed' ...

would be helpful to see that figure included in the detail, if possible!

and Having access to the more user friendly transaction statements is GR8.
Very helpful Ta

Thanks so much for your feedback. We will try and get this in as soon as possible. Great idea. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Monica@Harmoney]

Thx Saamee. So you've never received any payments on those ten loans? Getting into arrears on the first payment surprises me. Perhaps I'd be less surprised if it was an E or F category loan, more surprised on A or B loans. I would be interested to know the typical profile of delinquent loans. So not what percentage have been deliquent, but when it happens eg. http://blog.zopa.com/2006/07/13/bad-debt-rates/


Hi Saamee and Kiwi on OE - the first payment for all new loans is the date, one month past the contract date. In New Zealand it is quite normal for people to try and align their payments to their PAYE or income date. Often if this date is later than the contract date, this can mean they miss their first payment, however the repair rate is very very high indeed. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Harvey Specter]

Hi Saamee and Kiwi on OE - the first payment for all new loans is the date, one month past the contract date. In New Zealand it is quite normal for people to try and align their payments to their PAYE or income date. Often if this date is later than the contract date, this can mean they miss their first payment, however the repair rate is very very high indeed. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nzWoudn't a responsible lender ask this upfront and cater for this. Especially for debt consolidation, choosing payment date would be good for the sales pitch.

[Monica@Harmoney]

Woudn't a responsible lender ask this upfront and cater for this. Especially for debt consolidation, choosing payment date would be good for the sales pitch.

Harvey Spector, as a responsible lender, we do - but often people change their mind. Out of over $200m loans to date, I am sure this is a minor concern.

[Knot]

losing your principal is never a minor concern.

[Puggy]

losing your principal is never a minor concern.

I realise I'm somewhat of an extreme example, but of the $500 I put into Harmoney to test the water, $297 has been charged off.

[Saamee]

Arrears > Accurate Status update now I'm by the PC!

7929

[Kelvin]

I realise I'm somewhat of an extreme example, but of the $500 I put into Harmoney to test the water, $297 has been charged off.

! can I ask what grades you invested in? And how did you spread that $500 across loans?

[kiwi_on_OE]

Arrears > Accurate Status update now I'm by the PC!

7929

Thx for sharing that Saamee. I find it interesting, because the link I shared indicates that delinquencies could probably be expected to increase linearly over time for the first year or so before levelling out. Your experience shows two things 1) most delinquencies started in the first month, 2) the other delinquencies may have been increasing linearly.

Monica, this pattern of delinquencies in the first month is a bit troubling to me. Are you able to share any stats about the patterns/timings of delinquencies that are happening in the overall portfolio?

[Monica@Harmoney]

losing your principal is never a minor concern.

As I said, the repair rate is extremely high. thanks for your comments - I will answer questions where I can help. Monica.maths@harmoney.co.nz

[Saamee]

Today a 'good read' ( below ) article on P2P and Taxation on Interest.co.nz

http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/80524/deloittes-troy-andrews-argues-ird-needs-modernise-its-framework-p2p-lending

[Bjauck]

Today a 'good read' ( below ) article on P2P and Taxation on Interest.co.nz

http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/80524/deloittes-troy-andrews-argues-ird-needs-modernise-its-framework-p2p-lending

Thanks for the link. An investment with Harmoney P2P is definitely made with the expectation of a "blended return" (interest less service charges and charge-offs) from all the notes the investors money goes into.

[mlt322]

I have one loan (one of my first) made back in October last year that made one payment and nothing since. Now that I have access to the borrower details I see that it is a B4 (should be reasonably safe) who owns their own home and was borrowing for some renovations. A fairly safe bet in my books. I am interested to know how far Harmoney goes in recovering the loan as in this case I assume that the borrower has a property that could be sought in the recovery. I'm not at all familiar with debt recovery in NZ but how far can a lender go to recover their loan? I do understand that the loan is not secured but at what point does Harmoney 'give up'?

[WingingIt]

Monica,

Is there a process in place where Harmoney check that a borrower actually uses the money for the reason/category specified in their loan details? I know a lot of people on this forum use the category plus other information in the loan details to make a decision whether to invest or not.

I am asking because someone I know recently got a personal loan through GE Money to buy a used car and they didn't want any proof that they had actually bought a car.

Cheers

[Harvey Specter]

Not sure there is much difference between a car or a holiday but I do hope if it's a debt consolidation that they do check they are paid off. Not that there is anything stopping them racking up more debt.

[Monica@Harmoney]

Monica,

Is there a process in place where Harmoney check that a borrower actually uses the money for the reason/category specified in their loan details? I know a lot of people on this forum use the category plus other information in the loan details to make a decision whether to invest or not.

I am asking because someone I know recently got a personal loan through GE Money to buy a used car and they didn't want any proof that they had actually bought a car.

Cheers


I have one loan (one of my first) made back in October last year that made one payment and nothing since. Now that I have access to the borrower details I see that it is a B4 (should be reasonably safe) who owns their own home and was borrowing for some renovations. A fairly safe bet in my books. I am interested to know how far Harmoney goes in recovering the loan as in this case I assume that the borrower has a property that could be sought in the recovery. I'm not at all familiar with debt recovery in NZ but how far can a lender go to recover their loan? I do understand that the loan is not secured but at what point does Harmoney 'give up'?

We pursue every avenue, including if necessary a judgement against future wages, and where a property is involved, we may consider a caveat on the property. We also have 2 collections parties - this ensures natural competition and making are that we are getting the very best collections results. We are going to put a web page on the site about our collections process so watch this space. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Monica@Harmoney]

We pursue every avenue, including if necessary a judgement against future wages, and where a property is involved, we may consider a caveat on the property. We also have 2 collections parties - this ensures natural competition and making are that we are getting the very best collections results. We are going to put a web page on the site about our collections process so watch this space. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

In relation to loan purpose - some loan purposes we check e.g. house renovation - we check that they own that home. Debt consolidation - if we deem that affordability requires them to pay out certain debts, then we ensure these are paid direct. monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Bjauck]

...and where a property is involved, we may consider a caveat on the property. ... With a caveat on a property it may be some years before it is discharged (for example, on the sale of the real estate). Would the notes that comprise the loan be charged off in the meantime and then credited back later on, if the caveat is discharged and the loan recovered and repaid in full?

[Monica@Harmoney]

With a caveat on a property it may be some years before it is discharged (for example, on the sale of the real estate). Would the notes that comprise the loan be charged off in the meantime and then credited back later on, if the caveat is discharged and the loan recovered and repaid in full?

yes that is correct. Money is still recoverable after charge off. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[humvee]

Any one else unable to place orders this morning? I had the same problem the other day too.

Unknown error please try again later.

[Monica@Harmoney]

Sorry about that everyone. We are fixing the issue and it will be back on line shortly. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Saamee]

Again, today I got the below attachment whilst trying to look at Orders to Invest in... It took about 90 seconds to load!


7936

[Finite]

A while back I asked Monica for an update on the progress of a secondary market.
I don't believe there has been a response.
So, I ask the question again Monica.

This feature was implicitly promised at product launch and induced me to invest.
The lack of such a market is certainly stopping me investing more and I am withdrawing funds as they get rewitten/repaid (WHICH IS PRETTY DAM FAST because of Harmoneys policy of actively encouraging rewrites so they can double dip on fees)

[humvee]

Sorry about that everyone. We are fixing the issue and it will be back on line shortly. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

Thanks it was all good by ~8:30 maybe a bit earlier - Although I think this was the 3rd morning I struck this issue

[humvee]

Hi Monica

Its Great to see we now have an easy link to the borrower details from the reports/charged off loans screen.

Could easy to see details of the date a loan was written off (or date of last status change - eg current to arrears, arrears to charged off etc) please be added to the details as currently the is nothing.

Thanks

[humvee]

Look at the extra employment information this site is showing that is not shown on the official harmoney dashboard
http://www.mortgagerates.co.nz/p2p-loans.html


Monica - could the more detailed information about employment that is available on this site please be made available on the official site too

[Cool Bear]

Hi Monica

Its Great to see we now have an easy link to the borrower details from the reports/charged off loans screen.

Could easy to see details of the date a loan was written off (or date of last status change - eg current to arrears, arrears to charged off etc) please be added to the details as currently the is nothing.

Thanks
Hi Monica

Humvee above request is a bit similar to my earlier request that the date the loan is charged off be shown as an additional column. It is a real pain going thru all to see which is the latest loan charged off so that I can update my records. I now have 15 loans charged off (10 months) and expect much more as time goes by.

[emveha]

Hi Monica

Humvee above request is a bit similar to my earlier request that the date the loan is charged off be shown as an additional column. It is a real pain going thru all to see which is the latest loan charged off so that I can update my records. I now have 15 loans charged off (10 months) and expect much more as time goes by.

+1 on the charged off date. It's really missing at the moment.

MVA

[Monica@Harmoney]

A while back I asked Monica for an update on the progress of a secondary market.
I don't believe there has been a response.
So, I ask the question again Monica.

This feature was implicitly promised at product launch and induced me to invest.
The lack of such a market is certainly stopping me investing more and I am withdrawing funds as they get rewitten/repaid (WHICH IS PRETTY DAM FAST because of Harmoneys policy of actively encouraging rewrites so they can double dip on fees)


Hi there, regarding a secondary market - it is certainly something that we intend on delivering - I don't have a timeframe at the moment. But will keep you in the loop. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Monica@Harmoney]

Hi Monica

Humvee above request is a bit similar to my earlier request that the date the loan is charged off be shown as an additional column. It is a real pain going thru all to see which is the latest loan charged off so that I can update my records. I now have 15 loans charged off (10 months) and expect much more as time goes by.

Thanks for the feedback. Ive asked Product to put this on the list of enhancements. Thanks Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Kelvin]

What does the Income Type "Income Change" mean?

[Saamee]

An interesting read about P2P lenders in the China market....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-16/p2p-property-lending-explodes-china-officials-panic

[Dan@Harmoney]

What does the Income Type "Income Change" mean?

Hi Dan from Harmoney here - Showing "Income Change" in the Income Type field is a new bug that shows on some loans and will be fixed in our release next Tues.

[kiwi_on_OE]

Prompted by another delinquency in the first month - and as asked a week ago: -


Thx for sharing that Saamee. I find it interesting, because the link I shared indicates that delinquencies could probably be expected to increase linearly over time for the first year or so before levelling out. Your experience shows two things 1) most delinquencies started in the first month, 2) the other delinquencies may have been increasing linearly.

Monica, this pattern of delinquencies in the first month is a bit troubling to me. Are you able to share any stats about the patterns/timings of delinquencies that are happening in the overall portfolio?

[Monica@Harmoney]

Prompted by another delinquency in the first month - and as asked a week ago: -

Hi there Kiwi on OE - I'll see what data I can pull. As previously discussed, the repair rates on 1st payments is in the 90's percentage - it mainly happens when people have not thought about aligning their payment date to their PAYE date. We will also be putting the hazard curve on the website showing when defaults generally arise on the portfolio basis.

[Monica@Harmoney]

Prompted by another delinquency in the first month - and as asked a week ago: -

First payment delinquencies are common with lending as borrowers arrange their bank accounts to ensure there are enough funds on the day the loan payment direct debit comes out. The borrowers are contacted by our collections team and usually the account goes to current within a week. That said defaults are more likely to happen early in a loans lifecycle as represented by the hazard curve. There is more information on the hazard curve on our investment risks page here: https://www.harmoney.co.nz/investors/investment-risks

[Darchie]

First payment delinquencies are common with lending as borrowers arrange their bank accounts to ensure there are enough funds on the day the loan payment direct debit comes out. The borrowers are contacted by our collections team and usually the account goes to current within a week. That said defaults are more likely to happen early in a loans lifecycle as represented by the hazard curve. There is more information on the hazard curve on our investment risks page here: https://www.harmoney.co.nz/investors/investment-risks

YES Monica ...... BUT you are Not answering us as to why so many Borrowers miss their first payment and continue with Zero dollars paid, month in and month out ... I have a number of these and some of them dare I say, are from what Mark described as being like your 'Cream of the Crop!' .... Re-Writes ....

[Darchie]

Hi there Darchie.
We are working on the new fee structure and this should be announced shortly. And it will address the rewrite. I'll check on the joint investors - not one that I am aware of that has been asked for by others. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

Hi Monica. .. time to ask Again ...as it feels like this is being BURIED. ... when will the new fee structure be announced? ... Addressing clipping the ticket on our principal over and over again!
These rewrites are lethal .... the carrot you've put at the end of the string is getting so Very Old now!!!!

Harmoney DO need to move on this issue as I'm sure many are like us and are now starting to move their attention to others in P2P!

[Saamee]

Hi Monica. .. time to ask Again ...as it feels like this is being BURIED. ... when will the new fee structure be announced? ... Addressing clipping the ticket on our principal over and over again!
These rewrites are lethal .... the carrot you've put at the end of the string is getting so Very Old now!!!!

Harmoney DO need to move on this issue as I'm sure many are like us and are now starting to move their attention to others in P2P!


Yes Darchie agreed... I have been "Actively Re-balancing funds" out of HM and over to the secured Lending Crowd P2P lender.

When HM sort out the Re-Write issues for Investors I will resume pouring more funds in to HM until then NO more funds!

[Knot]

YES Monica ...... BUT you are Not answering us as to why so many Borrowers miss their first payment and continue with Zero dollars paid, month in and month out ... I have a number of these and some of them dare I say, are from what Mark described as being like your 'Cream of the Crop!' .... Re-Writes ....

I now have 2 loans that have never paid a cent back after 2 months, getting in line with pay periods etc feels like an excuse to me. I do have to wonder how good the vetting is.

[Monica@Harmoney]

YES Monica ...... BUT you are Not answering us as to why so many Borrowers miss their first payment and continue with Zero dollars paid, month in and month out ... I have a number of these and some of them dare I say, are from what Mark described as being like your 'Cream of the Crop!' .... Re-Writes ....

Hi Darchie - if you could let me know the account numbers via my email - monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz - I can take a look and give you an accurate response. Monica

[Monica@Harmoney]

Yes Darchie agreed... I have been "Actively Re-balancing funds" out of HM and over to the secured Lending Crowd P2P lender.

When HM sort out the Re-Write issues for Investors I will resume pouring more funds in to HM until then NO more funds!

We launched with a common global P2P fee structure, and this hasn't changed since our launch. Thank you for feedback received regarding re-writes. It is not being buried and I continue to be upfront about this. Fee structure is a key part of any business model so any changes, if there were to be any, cannot be rushed. As soon as I can, I will brief you. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[humvee]

Monica - could the more detailed information about employment that is available on this site please be made available on the official site too

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by humvee http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?p=604448#post604448)
Look at the extra employment information this site is showing that is not shown on the official harmoney dashboard
http://www.mortgagerates.co.nz/p2p-loans.html




Hi Monica

I think this post might have got missed amongst the others - Could this more detailed information be added into the loan screens please. Given its avaiable via RSS already it should not be to bigger change to include

[Monica@Harmoney]

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by humvee http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?p=604448#post604448)
Look at the extra employment information this site is showing that is not shown on the official harmoney dashboard
http://www.mortgagerates.co.nz/p2p-loans.html


Hi Monica

I think this post might have got missed amongst the others - Could this more detailed information be added into the loan screens please. Given its avaiable via RSS already it should not be to bigger change to include

Hi Humvee - nope it didn't get missed - we will be adding it to our API - and getting this through. We have a list of enhancements which we are delivering so its gone into the queue. Thanks for your continued support. Monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[Jinx]

As a investor who has only been dipping their feet in the water its interesting to see the progression of this thread, initially very postive that has now become increasingly negative. As well as the amount of loans avliable for investment starting to dry up. Hope my initial investment wasn't misplaced

[humvee]

As a investor who has only been dipping their feet in the water its interesting to see the progression of this thread, initially very postive that has now become increasingly negative. As well as the amount of loans avliable for investment starting to dry up. Hope my initial investment wasn't misplaced

Im not sure the number of investments have dried up, but what is there is filling very fast - The only loans that are not gone in 24 hours - sometimes 6 hours or less are the ones I would not invest in.

[Saamee]

I see the Investor RAR for March has just been updated. Personally mine has gone up for the 2nd month in a row @ 13.73%... On the down side I got my 1st Write Off today - LAI-00029544

[Whippeedo]

Hi Monica,

I have been investing in Harmoney since November.

Thanks for participating here on Sharetrader.

I sent an email to investorservices@harmoney.co.nz on the 12th of March at midday but haven't had a response yet that I can see.

This is probably in the fine print but if you could please assist one of a few questions I asked in that email........what happens if Harmoney doesn't make enough money to operate for the long term?

For example: If Harmoney runs out of operating money say half way through the life of a loan and has to shut its doors so to speak, does the loan live on? Or is it transferred to another company or organisations to administer the repayments a see the loan out to completion? Or does it disolve?

[permutation]

I see the Investor RAR for March has just been updated. Personally mine has gone up for the 2nd month in a row @ 13.73%... On the down side I got my 1st Write Off today - LAI-00029544

No-one can access loans they haven't invested in. So the loan # you posted is only relevant to the investors of that particular loan and superfluous to everyone else do you think?
Well done on your increased RAR, mine has come down from just over 14%, to a figure similar to yours. I now have 4 defaults from a total of about 500 original loans.

[permutation]

Hi Monica,

I have been investing in Harmoney since November.

Thanks for participating here on Sharetrader.

I sent an email to investorservices@harmoney.co.nz on the 12th of March at midday but haven't had a response yet that I can see.

This is probably in the fine print but if you could please assist one of a few questions I asked in that email........what happens if Harmoney doesn't make enough money to operate for the long term?

For example: If Harmoney runs out of operating money say half way through the life of a loan and has to shut its doors so to speak, does the loan live on? Or is it transferred to another company or organisations to administer the repayments a see the loan out to completion? Or does it dissolve?


The Harmoney investor information is very detailed on their website. I have found that by reading all of the info when I started investing 12 months ago, the processes' in various situations that may occur in the future are very well explained. I have made my personal lending decisions on how I interpreted this information.

[WingingIt]

I see the Investor RAR for March has just been updated. Personally mine has gone up for the 2nd month in a row @ 13.73%... On the down side I got my 1st Write Off today - LAI-00029544

I was also invested in this. Loan taken out on September 9th with one payment of $00.21 Principal and $00.56 interest on October 9th. Less than 1% principal paid.

The loan was apparently for a new car. Would like to know how recollection is coming along for "Once a loan is charged off, we expect recoveries to be between 10 to 30 cents on the dollar."

[Whippeedo]

Hi all,

Just sharing that I think P2P is such an interesting phenomenon and it could have a significantly positive impact on the world over time hopefully.

To be successful in the long term I reckon a platform needs to strike a good balance between all the stakeholders: investors, borrowers and the platform

If interest rates are too low or the lending terms for investors are unattractive there will not be enough investors to supply demand for loans.

If interest rates are too high and borrowing terms are unattractive there will not be enough borrowers to mop up investor demand.

If the platform is not making a reasonable ROI from operating it will not be able to continue and facilitate the loans which would be a shame because investors and borrowers will lose the opportunity to participate in P2P. It is important that the platform is profitable. The platform needs to be good at attracting borrowers and investors in some kind of balance.

Great to see P2P up and running in NZ and long may it continue.

[Knot]

Well this is odd. Last night I flicked some cash across to my account to top up the cash available to a multiple of $25, ie keep my cash working for me.

It was there this morning so I bought notes to put the money to use, giving me a $0.00 cash balance.

The loans were taken up, so nothing is in the "in funding" state, keeping my cash balance at $0.00.

Now I have a cash balance of $25.00, and for the life of my I can't see where it has come from, no loan has been repaid in full, no further deposits etc etc.

[Harvey Specter]

Well this is odd. Last night I flicked some cash across to my account to top up the cash available to a multiple of $25, ie keep my cash working for me.

It was there this morning so I bought notes to put the money to use, giving me a $0.00 cash balance.

The loans were taken up, so nothing is in the "in funding" state, keeping my cash balance at $0.00.

Now I have a cash balance of $25.00, and for the life of my I can't see where it has come from, no loan has been repaid in full, no further deposits etc etc.Maybe the loan wasn't taken up?

[Knot]

Hi Harvey,

Showing that it was, but I now suspect what has happened is another loan is cancelling within the 7 day grace period, it just isn't showing in the report yet. Will report back when something shows.

[Knot]

Now it gets even weirder, Tried to put it into another loan, got told I don't have the funds, my balance is now $0.00 again, but the principal repaid is showing the extra $25.

[Dan@Harmoney]

Now it gets even weirder, Tried to put it into another loan, got told I don't have the funds, my balance is now $0.00 again, but the principal repaid is showing the extra $25.

Hi Knot, if you email me the details I will take a look at it: dan@harmoney.co.nz

[Knot]

Hi Knot, if you email me the details I will take a look at it: dan@harmoney.co.nz

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the offer, I think the $25 difference in the principal repaid was a mistake on my part. I did a quick calculation in my head instead of waiting until I got home to use my harmoney app tool to compare my records to yours. Sorry about that. As for the $25 appearing as cash and then disappearing, I guess that was a glitch.

[Whippeedo]

Thanks for the fast response Monica and Mark.

The loans live on, taken over by a third party in short.


Hi Monica,

I have been investing in Harmoney since November. ...............

............. If Harmoney runs out of operating money say half way through the life of a loan and has to shut its doors so to speak, does the loan live on? Or is it transferred to another company or organisations to administer the repayments a see the loan out to completion? Or does it disolve?

[nztyke]

I notice that the Platform RAR has dropped from 12.59 to 11.66 in the last month. According to the website


"Realised Annual Return (Old calculation)Our portfolio is showing a 12.60% RAR at 21 March 2016. This is the entire portfolio including retail (26% of portfolio) and institutional (74% of portfolio) lending.
This graph uses the same calculation we have used in previous months. However, from this month we are implementing a change in the calculation which takes into consideration a new fee structure for Institutional Lenders. See the next graph for the new Portfolio RAR moving forward.

Realised Annual Return (New calculation)Factoring in the new Institutional Lenders' fee structure, our portfolio is showing a 11.66% RAR at 21 March 2016."

This would suggest that fees have increased for institutional investors. I notice that there is a lot of agitation on this board about the early repayment fees due to rewrites, suggesting that the LC model of a 10% fee on gross interest would be preferable. However whilst it does give certainty, in my case the Harmoney fees have been 8.66% of the gross for the last 12 months, so it could be a case of be careful what you wish for.

[Knot]

One of the two loans I invested in that had never made a payment went from being in arrears yesterday to current.

The stats page for that loan is showing strange information, I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before and knows what it means?

7946

According to the stats page there was a payment on the 1st of March (no this change happened yesterday, prior to yesterday they were $3.45 in arrears) of 23 cents, the numbers also don't add up, 0.23 was the last payment amount, payments to date are 0.00, etc (the 23 cents is not in my cash available either)

Any ideas?

[Knot]

That loan has updated again, the funds appear in my account now, but there is still the question of the payment date, and last payment amount.

7947

Things just don't make sense with the date and last payment amount, at least not to me.