Harmoney

[Saamee]

Well all you need to do is export your report and create your own spread sheet from it. Each day after that you can update it from a new report. Yes a little bit of effort but it is your investment so up to you to follow it. Takes me about 3minutes each day.

777 - With a due respect - again that is too much manual checking to have to do.

My belief has always been Harmoney should have offered from the get go their own System to deliver the customer a platform that they can exactly know where they are.

I think > My NZ Bank Accounts ( daily real time balances line by line, entry by entry )

NZ Share Trading > Line by Line accounting

I do not have any of these issue or questions over at Lending Crowd. I ALWAYS know exectly where I am from their reporting.

That is Absolute peace of mind :)

[Darchie]

777 > That's a lot of manual checking.... For something I think Harmoney should be sending an Email for!

Sorry Saamee .. i have too many loans to end up with my inbox crammed full of these sorts of emails!
... in reports paid off .. I ABSOLUTELY would like to see a column showing DATE PAID OFF. .. a Simply Ask I would have thought

[Darchie]

Harmoneys self pump on their home page
" 99% of loans funded in 24 hours " MIGHT Need to be reaccessed and altered!

[777]

777 - With a due respect - again that is too much manual checking to have to do.

My belief has always been Harmoney should have offered from the get go their own System to deliver the customer a platform that they can exactly know where they are.

I think > My NZ Bank Accounts ( daily real time balances line by line, entry by entry )

NZ Share Trading > Line by Line accounting

I do not have any of these issue or questions over at Lending Crowd. I ALWAYS know exectly where I am from their reporting.

That is Absolute peace of mind :)

Oh well each to their own.

[Bjauck]

...
In my view Harmoney do want RID of as much of the Retail as possible .... just too much hassle for em ... so maybe this new fee pricing is their way of reducing the noise!!!!
.. I think a lender fee set at 10% of gross interest should have been sufficient for Harmoney's "cost recovery and profit margin". A 10% fee on gross interest would probably have been received more favourably by lenders, when taking into account the previous jump in interest rates.

If they do wish to phase out retail lenders, they should be open about it, and say they wish their P2P model to be the more traditional finance model with corporate shareholders and/or lenders providing the finance. Their new fee structure seems to favour larger lenders. I wonder how long will it take for the retail RAR to drop below the platform RAR?

[permutation]

In the reports section the first filter item is "Active loans". When a loan is paid off the active loan number reduces. The default filter can be changed by clicking the star.
I have the filter "All Loans" as my default and then if I want to see the total loans repaid, I select the outstanding principal column an click to get $0.00 then I can see the number of pages in pale grey that are paid off. To see arrears, cancelled, charged off etc. I click on the status column so I get an A-Z list.
I keep track of my loan variables with a simple list of entries in my spreadsheet.

[Saamee]

I do not have any of these issue or questions over at Lending Crowd. I ALWAYS know exectly where I am from their reporting.

That is Absolute peace of mind :)


Below for those not yet signed up with / familiar with Lending Crowd, is a screen shot of what you see on their Main Webpage...

8107

[Darchie]

Here's a cracker. Loan Repaid ........
Date Issued 10 June I took one note .. ($25.00)
Yet look at this.
I tried to copy all detail ... but wasn't working ... but would copy the first column ...

LAI-00065354. A4

TOTAL LOAN AMOUNT:$7,375.00
MAXIMUM TERM:36 months
RECEIVED PAYMENTS
LAST PAYMENT DATE:Jun 10, 2016
LAST PAYMENT AMOUNT:$62.62
PAYMENTS TO DATE:$0.00
PRINCIPAL:$0.00
GROSS INT. PAID:$0.00
FEES

So last payment amount at $62.62 ... thats a bit above my note taken! ... but then I've still got zip back from this investment!

[Saamee]

Here's a cracker. Loan Repaid ........
Date Issued 10 June I took one note .. ($25.00)
Yet look at this.
I tried to copy all detail ... but wasn't working ... but would copy the first column ...

LAI-00065354. A4

TOTAL LOAN AMOUNT:$7,375.00
MAXIMUM TERM:36 months
RECEIVED PAYMENTS
LAST PAYMENT DATE:Jun 10, 2016
LAST PAYMENT AMOUNT:$62.62
PAYMENTS TO DATE:$0.00
PRINCIPAL:$0.00
GROSS INT. PAID:$0.00
FEES

So last payment amount at $62.62 ... thats a bit above my note taken! ... but then I've still got zip back from this investment!


That's just too weird!!!!

8108

[humvee]

They are filling the loans from somewhere - down to 15 from 28 now

Most likely wholesale/corporate i would guess - Infact all of yesterdays loans have dissappered suddenly - even the crappy ones - that I would not touch under the old fees

[winner69]

They are filling the loans from somewhere - down to 15 from 28 now

Most likely wholesale/corporate i would guess - Infact all of yesterdays loans have dissappered suddenly - even the crappy ones - that I would not touch under the old fees

Heartland taking their fair share I would say


Becoming a bit of a gold mine for them

[permutation]

My belief has always been Harmoney should have offered from the get go their own System to deliver the customer a platform that they can exactly know where they are.

I think > My NZ Bank Accounts ( daily real time balances line by line, entry by entry )

NZ Share Trading > Line by Line accounting

I do not have any of these issue or questions over at Lending Crowd. I ALWAYS know exectly where I am from their reporting.

That is Absolute peace of mind :)


100% agree with your sentiments Saamee, imagine how unacceptable it would be to have such obscure and delayed reporting in our regular bank accounts!

[Art]

Here's a cracker. Loan Repaid ........
Date Issued 10 June I took one note .. ($25.00)
Yet look at this.
I tried to copy all detail ... but wasn't working ... but would copy the first column ...

LAI-00065354. A4

TOTAL LOAN AMOUNT:$7,375.00
MAXIMUM TERM:36 months
RECEIVED PAYMENTS
LAST PAYMENT DATE:Jun 10, 2016
LAST PAYMENT AMOUNT:$62.62
PAYMENTS TO DATE:$0.00
PRINCIPAL:$0.00
GROSS INT. PAID:$0.00
FEES

So last payment amount at $62.62 ... thats a bit above my note taken! ... but then I've still got zip back from this investment!

I've got that one too - with exactly the same details showing. Can't bear any resemblance to what has actually happened though since my loan balance/cash balance total is not missing $25 nor is it $62.62 higher than it should be. Have you asked Harmoney to check it out?

[Darchie]

Will still phone then this avo as what now shows still doesn't stack up .. what a long time to wait for PRN. And 1cent of interest!

[Darchie]

Today being Thursday with 1,610 odd loans you'd think I'd be getting some sort of interest paid out, yet my available balance has gone negative by quite an amount!!! But here's a WEIRD discovery. One of my write-offs which was written off yonks ago has recently now gone -1.7556 principal .... I'm starting to get somewhat suspicious with recent maneuvers! I had planned to phone them this avo ... but had too many visitors to allow that to happen.....

[Darchie]

LAI-00032550 Oct 16, 2015 Charged Off E2 26% $150.00 -$1.76 $0.00 60 $1.76 N/A
Has anyone else got this loan as well? Oh and yes it was one of those 'cream of the crop re-write loans'

[Art]

Did something weird happen to their system on 10th June 2016? I have four loans all issued on that day and cancelled/repaid. I have had one or two cancelled/repaid in the past but never four on one day. Also all of them have incorrect last payment amounts. Don't seem to be any issues on the days before and after the 10th.

[humvee]

LAI-00032550 Oct 16, 2015 Charged Off E2 26% $150.00 -$1.76 $0.00 60 $1.76 N/A
Has anyone else got this loan as well? Oh and yes it was one of those 'cream of the crop re-write loans'

I have one like this too. My guess is this is how they are showing us when we get payments on a written off loan

[humvee]

LAI-00032550 Oct 16, 2015 Charged Off E2 26% $150.00 -$1.76 $0.00 60 $1.76 N/A
Has anyone else got this loan as well? Oh and yes it was one of those 'cream of the crop re-write loans'


Actually I have 5 loans like that - I suspect its recovered money after write-off

I even have 1 written off loan where I have now received 121% of the original investment ie Full principal plus some interest

8110

[Saamee]

Another good & interesting read about P2P up in the USA....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-16/loan-stacking-blind-spot-could-blow-p2p-model

[Monica@Harmoney]

Actually I have 5 loans like that - I suspect its recovered money after write-off

I even have 1 written off loan where I have now received 121% of the original investment ie Full principal plus some interest

8110

Thats exactly right - if there is a -value, it means that there is recoveries after write-off. A good result. If you would like any information on particular loans, you can email myself at investorservices@harmoney.co.nz Regards Monica

[Monica@Harmoney]

I've got that one too - with exactly the same details showing. Can't bear any resemblance to what has actually happened though since my loan balance/cash balance total is not missing $25 nor is it $62.62 higher than it should be. Have you asked Harmoney to check it out?


Hi Art, did you get what you needed on this. If not, contact me on investorservices@harmoney.co.nz. Kind regards Monica

[PennyPicker]

Hi guys, looks like a few are using Precis (http://www.precis.net.nz/) which is good to see. To make life a little easier it's now on a custom domain, http://www.precis.net.nz/.

8114

PP.

[RMJH]

Another good & interesting read about P2P up in the USA....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-16/loan-stacking-blind-spot-could-blow-p2p-model


Hopefully the ID checks (like IRD number?) would stop that from happening here!

[RMJH]

Hopefully the ID checks (like IRD number?) would stop that from happening here!
Anyone know what happens with consolidation loans to ensure they are used for the specified purpose? ie does the money go direct to the lenders or is it a matter of faith?

[skeet]

Anyone know what happens with consolidation loans to ensure they are used for the specified purpose? ie does the money go direct to the lenders or is it a matter of faith?

Onus is on the borrower.

[Art]

Another good & interesting read about P2P up in the USA....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-16/loan-stacking-blind-spot-could-blow-p2p-model

Better watch that 'Enquiries last six months" figure - but I wonder how quickly it gets updated in NZ.

[Dan@Harmoney]

Anyone know what happens with consolidation loans to ensure they are used for the specified purpose? ie does the money go direct to the lenders or is it a matter of faith?

Hi RMJH, In the case of debt consolidation if the borrower does not have the serviceability to cover their existing debt/s and the loan through the Harmoney platform then their existing debts are paid out. This is managed by Harmoney as part of loan settlement.

[Kelvin]

I've ended up with a -$6 cash available balance, while my outstanding principal has increased. Have made a withdrawal, but no new deposits or investments recently.

What happened? Customer decided to cancel their re-write so my cash went back to them?

[777]

I've ended up with a -$6 cash available balance, while my outstanding principal has increased. Have made a withdrawal, but no new deposits or investments recently.

What happened? Customer decided to cancel their re-write so my cash went back to them?

My guess is a payment bounced so deposit to your account reversed.

[Darchie]

Here's a cracker. Loan Repaid ........
Date Issued 10 June I took one note .. ($25.00)
Yet look at this.
I tried to copy all detail ... but wasn't working ... but would copy the first column ...

LAI-00065354. A4

TOTAL LOAN AMOUNT:$7,375.00
MAXIMUM TERM:36 months
RECEIVED PAYMENTS
LAST PAYMENT DATE:Jun 10, 2016
LAST PAYMENT AMOUNT:$62.62
PAYMENTS TO DATE:$0.00
PRINCIPAL:$0.00
GROSS INT. PAID:$0.00
FEES

So last payment amount at $62.62 ... thats a bit above my note taken! ... but then I've still got zip back from this investment!

Remember me mentioning this Cracker ... WELL .. it's certainly a SPECIAL LOAN! ...

It spent quite a long time in Paid Off. .... then moved along into the Cancelled relm ... BUT.... Now today it's gone CURRENT. So OMG. What a swing around!!! Hard to keep track of I say!

[RMJH]

Hi RMJH, In the case of debt consolidation if the borrower does not have the serviceability to cover their existing debt/s and the loan through the Harmoney platform then their existing debts are paid out. This is managed by Harmoney as part of loan settlement.
Thanks, good answer.

[Darchie]

I see my RAR has dropped a bit ... was 14.34% now. 14.15%

[IntheRearWithTheGear]

Anybody got a handy dandy chart aboud max level you can borrow at each level ? it looks like f can only get 5k ? etc

[777]

Anybody got a handy dandy chart aboud max level you can borrow at each level ? it looks like f can only get 5k ? etc

What do you mean by "each level"?

[IntheRearWithTheGear]

Seems to be a pattern "A" risk loans seems to be able to get 35k, "f risk loans" seem to be able to get 5k loans.

[777]

I understand the limit all loans is $35,000. Maybe those that get loans in the F's can only support repayments for a lesser amount due to repayment capability.

[Chickens]

From my observation;

A - up to $35k
B - up to $30k
C - up to $25k
D - up to $25k
E & F - sorry - haven't been watching these ones.

[CR111]

E - up to $10K
F - up to $5K

[numbersman]

Where are all the new loans today? Must have logged in 6 times...

[Monica@Harmoney]

Where are all the new loans today? Must have logged in 6 times...

Hi there numbers man, there are around 18 loans in the marketplace currently. Perhaps change your filters? Email me on lenderservices@harmoney.co.nz should you need any help. Monica

[numbersman]

Yep.Just seen them right now & invested.thanks :) No filters on

Hopefully more to come.

[Monica@Harmoney]

I understand the limit all loans is $35,000. Maybe those that get loans in the F's can only support repayments for a lesser amount due to repayment capability.

Hi 777, Borrower limits are located at https://www.harmoney.co.nz/how-it-works/interest-rates-and-fees
Kind regards Monica

[Darchie]

Harmoney seems to be in a bit of 'disarray' over last few days. .. catchup up! ... unwinding or whatever!.... I'm spending a lot of time in quite high negative territory on my available cash .... but when i look back over last months worth of loans it seems to be bathed in grey... 15 paidoff, some are cancelled ... so many of them their fees taken is higher than interest earned ... just seems heafty ..... I think of Saamee's thoughts mentioned on this issue - and say WELL. Time will Tell ....as remember the new fee structure alters any advantage/disadvantage .... mindyou; seen as I'm not bothering introducing new funds it won't be quite an even comparison. But others who are increasing their investment stake may have a better comparison.

[WingingIt]

Any one seeing some early payments on loans? I had some issued in early June, which means first payment isnt due till July. I have this on 5/13 loans issued in June.

[Broke]

my returns have been quite healthy so far, considering I invested the bulk in A and B loans. It might change in the future tho, when we have enough data on loan-cycles

[Saamee]

Is anyone else having the same issue Logging on to the Harmoney Website right now?

Time = 18:00

Browser = Chrome

See below image >>>

8134

[777]

Works OK for me.

[maknz_st]

Got my first RAR after 3 months or so in. 17%. Will only go down of course, but fairly happy so far. Risk is basically a bell curve, with a few more in E/F than A/B.

[Saamee]

They are still waiting for my Acceptance!!

8142

[777]

So what are you trying to tell us? We all had to do it when the conditions changed. No big deal.

[Saamee]

So what are you trying to tell us? We all had to do it when the conditions changed. No big deal.

777 > Ha ha ha... Nothing! No one had posted anything for 3 days so found something to give it a 'Bump'.

[kiwi_on_OE]

Doesn't seem to have been many loans this week? Or have I just been looking at the wrong times?

[Saamee]

Lending Club ( USA ) P2P Woes.....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-01/lending-clubs-biggest-fund-slammed-redemptions-58-assets-posts-first-ever-negative-m

[JohnMac]

Lending Club ( USA ) P2P Woes.....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-01/lending-clubs-biggest-fund-slammed-redemptions-58-assets-posts-first-ever-negative-m

I notice that my Arrear total seems to be growing daily. I hope this is not a indication of what is to come.

[Soolaimon]

I notice that my Arrear total seems to be growing daily. I hope this is not a indication of what is to come.

You are right, My arrears also been growing slowly for the last few weeks.

[mlt322]

I notice that my Arrear total seems to be growing daily. I hope this is not a indication of what is to come.
You are right, My arrears also been growing slowly for the last few weeks.

I have noticed this too. My arrears use to hover between $25 to $30 but have now gone up to $79. As you say Soolaimon, I hope that this isn't a sign of things to come.

I am withdrawing my finds from Harmoney as they become available with no further investment being made. I have made a few investments with Lending Crowd but since their loans are so few and far between I feel this may be a lost cause for now. Too much effort required until they have more loans and an auto-invest function.

So I think I'll be investing my withdrawn funds into my index funds until a more viable P2P alternative comes along.

Does anyone else feel the same, and what are you doing about it?

[JohnMac]

My arrears are now $210 and most loans are invested in A and B's with some C and D's. No longer investing in Harmony and moving most to Smartshares ETF's. Still with Squirrel as they have their default guarantee and with LendingCrowd as the ones I have all have some kind or security, mostly vehicles for what that is worth. There is risk in everything but I believe Harmony loans are probably the most insecure as there does not seem there is any security offered against loan defaults apart from some form of credit checking.

[Saamee]

My arrears are now $210 and most loans are invested in A and B's with some C and D's. No longer investing in Harmony and moving most to Smartshares ETF's. Still with Squirrel as they have their default guarantee and with LendingCrowd as the ones I have all have some kind or security, mostly vehicles for what that is worth. There is risk in everything but I believe Harmony loans are probably the most insecure as there does not seem there is any security offered against loan defaults apart from some form of credit checking.

Like you mostly in A to D grades. Arrears had got up to $150 over the last 4 weeks, but just over the last few days has come down to around $95 now.

Still getting many loand repaid - just see that as an opportunity to get my Capital out for good :)

[permutation]

I have noticed this too. My arrears use to hover between $25 to $30 but have now gone up to $79. As you say Soolaimon, I hope that this isn't a sign of things to come.

I am withdrawing my finds from Harmoney as they become available with no further investment being made. I have made a few investments with Lending Crowd but since their loans are so few and far between I feel this may be a lost cause for now. Too much effort required until they have more loans and an auto-invest function.

So I think I'll be investing my withdrawn funds into my index funds until a more viable P2P alternative comes along.

Does anyone else feel the same, and what are you doing about it?

My arrears are static around $25-$31. Like you I have not made new investments since the hike. Am withdrawing all my funds on a weekly basis for good.

Only have a few loans with LC but my Net RR is about 10.50% currently and I will probably get a few more soon. I like the secured loan feature.

I have been investing in Senior and Tier I, and Tier II bank bonds as new issues come along, average rate about 5-7%. But I guess the best investments of all I have are self managed rental properties.

[Art]

Lending Club ( USA ) P2P Woes.....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-01/lending-clubs-biggest-fund-slammed-redemptions-58-assets-posts-first-ever-negative-m

So does the Lending Club also run what we would know as a managed fund/unit trust/group investment fund, as well as the P2P lending? Now that would be a nightmare to value the units, as interest rates move up the value of the units would need to fall and vice versa.

[Darchie]

My arrears do look nasty at 54 ... it's 'SHOWING' as just a tad under $200. .. but that's false... as when one looks closer
I see that I have 10 loans that show as 0.00 arrears owing ..... that doesn't include the 8 loans that've not made a single payment ... so is this how we guess that these 10 are in the so 'called hardship group' ... i ask has anyone else obtained any info on these zero arrears?

[Soolaimon]

My arrears seem to have leveled out some in the last few days, but, where have all the loans gone?? 3 this morning and they are still there with very little taken up during the day. Also, over at LCrowd, the action has dropped off.
I had considered withdrawing funds from Harmoney but looking back I still reckon it is more than subsidizing my term deposits, so will carry on re-investing in the meantime in both platforms. Return percentage is slowly climbing each month (13.6) with 50% of loans in B and very few in D,E,F. and I am up to 12.2% over in LC. That's ok by me and the extra fees at H are not that big an issue, as I said before in a post, it is an increase of around 8% when re-pays are considered.

[Darchie]

Quite a few loans have been listed up in clumps over the day ... i too am continuing reinvesting at this stage, but not introducing more principal. Want to see how it goes ... But my investing strategy has altered big time ... i have just one criteria of F loan i take ... have stopped all D & E loans ... trying to reinvest into mainly B with some C and A3-5 and only into the smaller A's if there's nothing else to choose from. I think with the new fee structure, it's fair not to smack the repaid principal but the percentage charged just makes me think the higher risk loans are too costly for me to bear the brunt of their losses.
I was surprised to read JohnMac's comment about his arrears he saying
"arrears are now $210 and most loans are invested in A and B's with some C and D's."
Gosh here was I thinking if I took less riskier loans I'd lower my arrears tally!!

[mccollr]

Just checked my account and my arrears are $7.48 on a balance of $25k balance. 13.31% RAR. The arrears have hovered around this amount for months.
I invest in Harmony for the compound interest. Have searched NZ for a good compound interest investment but this is the best I have found.

Any others that I should look at. ??

[Darchie]

Just checked my account and my arrears are $7.48 on a balance of $25k balance. 13.31% RAR. The arrears have hovered around this amount for months.
I invest in Harmony for the compound interest. Have searched NZ for a good compound interest investment but this is the best I have found.

Any others that I should look at. ??

Your low arrears on 25k is very impressive! What loans are you investng into?

[mccollr]

No strategy whatsoever. Just buy what is on offer taking the lowest risk first with whatever funds I have.

My present spread is A=28%, B=26%, C=10%, D=15%, E=10%, F=5% roughtly.

[Darchie]

I observe ...... I've taken 99 loans since 13th june where the different fee structure kicked in (as in no fee being charged on repaid Principal). NOT 'O N E' OF THESE HAS REPAID OR CANCELLED AS YET .... but prior to the fee structure change my repaid and cancelled was Unbelievably High ..... and many of them the fees came in higher than what I get ....
Be interested to hear if others notice same or different?

[IntheRearWithTheGear]

Dont they pump them for renewal three months into the loan ? and as such your too early.

[Darchie]

Dont they pump them for renewal three months into the loan ? and as such your too early.
Nah. In May and June I've got quite a few loans that run from a few days up to 3 or so weeks .... so no I'm comparing apples with apples

[Saamee]

Nah. In May and June I've got quite a few loans that run from a few days up to 3 or so weeks .... so no I'm comparing apples with apples

My best mate applied to Harmoney for a loan of approx11K.

3/4's of the way throug the Sign Up the Internet hung up and the attaching the Financial Documents failed.

However he received an Email form Harmoney saying ALL was approved ( Remember that Financial verifications were Not completed )

Then just 2 hours later ( aftr the initial application ) he received a 2nd Email from Harmomey saying he had been approved to borrow more than he had originally requested...

Financial were never resolved. In the end he got Mortgage Top up Finance from ANZ.

I'm sure this is going on.....

[Bjauck]

Then just 2 hours later ( aftr the initial application ) he received a 2nd Email from Harmomey saying he had been approved to borrow more than he had originally requested...

Financial were never resolved. In the end he got Mortgage Top up Finance from ANZ.

I'm sure this is going on..... That sounds very slack. As a matter of interest, what loan grade had he been approved for?

[777]

My best mate applied to Harmoney for a loan of approx11K.

3/4's of the way throug the Sign Up the Internet hung up and the attaching the Financial Documents failed.

However he received an Email form Harmoney saying ALL was approved ( Remember that Financial verifications were Not completed )

Then just 2 hours later ( aftr the initial application ) he received a 2nd Email from Harmomey saying he had been approved to borrow more than he had originally requested...

Financial were never resolved. In the end he got Mortgage Top up Finance from ANZ.

I'm sure this is going on.....

Why didn't you lend him the money ? Skip the middle man.

[Saamee]

That sounds very slack. As a matter of interest, what loan grade had he been approved for?

Initially a B5 ( Self Employed )

Then they upgraded him to a B3 when they offered him the full 35K ( Initally asked for 11K )

[Art]

My best mate applied to Harmoney for a loan of approx11K.

3/4's of the way throug the Sign Up the Internet hung up and the attaching the Financial Documents failed.

However he received an Email form Harmoney saying ALL was approved ( Remember that Financial verifications were Not completed )

Then just 2 hours later ( aftr the initial application ) he received a 2nd Email from Harmomey saying he had been approved to borrow more than he had originally requested...

Financial were never resolved. In the end he got Mortgage Top up Finance from ANZ.

I'm sure this is going on.....

Have you emailed Harmoney with all of the details so they can investigate/comment? If something is going wrong with their systems it would be beneficial to both Harmoney and us, the investors, to have it sorted.

[IntheRearWithTheGear]

Maybe the guy has other indicators, such as clean credit history and perhaps enters his earnings in other fields. The uploads are a proof but not perhaps the only indicator of honesty. I mean, i could forge something up real good using paint shop pro that says im a millionaire. If your self employeed you can say anything for income really (but then its historic) - so they would really be wasting time looking at these uploads. Its the things that cant be changed such as credit history held by credit agencies.

In regards to the extra money they offered - macdonalds always does that when you go throught the drive thru - they call it upsell - you know wanna larger coke with your order. I thought that was a good thing as they are in the business of selling "our" credit ?

[Monica@Harmoney]

Have you emailed Harmoney with all of the details so they can investigate/comment? If something is going wrong with their systems it would be beneficial to both Harmoney and us, the investors, to have it sorted.

Happy to look into this - as a responsible lender, we take this very seriously. Please email me on monica.mathis@harmoney.co.nz

[kiwi_on_OE]

Has anyone else noticed Harmoney not processing loans through from Funded to Issued in recent days? I've got multiple loans in multiple orders over multiple days that are no longer available to invest in (although one is at 97%), but are not issued.

[PennyPicker]

@kiwi_on_OE: Yes, I've observed the same behaviour over the last few days/maybe week.

[DrewBroadley]

Out of curiosity, now that Harmoney has been going for a while longer now, are others influenced by the "Purpose" that people put in?

I saw notes earlier on about how some did look at this as an indicator.

[PennyPicker]

@Drew yes I am. I had three of four defaults in the last couple of weeks which has reduced my RAR from nearly 15% to 13.91 so I'm eager to minimise the damage.

An example of one I passed on this week or last was for 'tax bill'. Maybe a bit critical on my part, but if you can't manage your tax I'm not lending to you...

[kiwi_on_OE]

Out of curiosity, now that Harmoney has been going for a while longer now, are others influenced by the "Purpose" that people put in?


I read it, but I don't rely on it to be accurate. I avoid Business Cashflow, as I know nothing about the the underlying business.

[JohnMac]

I read it, but I don't rely on it to be accurate. I avoid Business Cashflow, as I know nothing about the the underlying business.

The other problem with loans for cash flow tend to be short term loans. Just long enough to carry the business during a cash flow crisis.

[easy money]

@kiwi_on_OE: Yes, I've observed the same behaviour over the last few days/maybe week.
YES..the same problem I have had as well..also noticed there have been no loans on offer last 2 day's.

[Kees]

YES..the same problem I have had as well..also noticed there have been no loans on offer last 2 day's.

That's not right I invested yesterday.

[emveha]

That's not right I invested yesterday.

Uh? For me same as easy money, I have not seen any loan on offer for the last 2 days.

[Kees]

Uh? For me same as easy money, I have not seen any loan on offer for the last 2 days.

You blokes must be on a different screen there were even 2 loan out today

[Darchie]

You blokes must be on a different screen there were even 2 loan out today

I've just checked & can say I've passed up a few loans over past few days but have gone into:
14th taken up 6 different loans
15th taken 1 loan
16th taken 4 different loans and
17th gone into 4 different loans
But do get the feel that there's a slowness of my interest/prn funds being paid by HM

And there seemed to be some unwinding going on ... so hopefully they catchup soon!

[whitt]

I see a couple of people here have said they are not going to continue with Harmoney and are going to pull funds as they expire.

-What is your reasoning for pulling funds?

I thought even with defaults and fees the return was fairly good ( over 10% RAR)

[Kelvin]

I see a couple of people here have said they are not going to continue with Harmoney and are going to pull funds as they expire.

-What is your reasoning for pulling funds?

I thought even with defaults and fees the return was fairly good ( over 10% RAR)

- fee increase: increasing the fees to take a 20% cut of my interest is just too excessive in my opinion, especially when I'm the one taking on all the risk
- platform bugs: have experienced a bunch of issues with the platform such as loans getting stuck in funding, loans with 0 months payments showing up as rewrites etc.
- general distrust: generally don't trust the platform anymore. Seen plenty of loans with ridiculous income vs loan repayment amounts, loads of crap around rewrites etc.

I've chosen to go over to the Lending Crowd where I expect the returns to be slightly lower than Harmoney but the loans are secured. I also like Squirrel money. Lower returns but your capital is safer with the reserve fund system.

[whitt]

- fee increase: increasing the fees to take a 20% cut of my interest is just too excessive in my opinion, especially when I'm the one taking on all the risk.
Is this 20% fee shown in the RAR?

[Kelvin]

I think RAR does reflect the lender fees. Although the increased fees only apply to loans invested in from 13 June so it will take a while to see how much of an impact the new fees have on your returns.

[Harvey Specter]

I see a couple of people here have said they are not going to continue with Harmoney and are going to pull funds as they expire.

-What is your reasoning for pulling funds?

I thought even with defaults and fees the return was fairly good ( over 10% RAR)Just to add to what Kelvin said, 10% may be 'good' but does it reflect the risk. I was getting a high proportion of defaults even though the economy has been going strong. So what will happen during a recession? So while the return may be good now, does it reflect a good risk/return ratio.

Also the lack of liquidity. i expected a secondary market to be created but apparently they surveyed lenders and fond out it wasn't a top priority. Because of this I dont want to invest a large sum of money as I already have enough illiquid investments.

The RAR does reflect fees but the higher fees are only new so the impact wont show yet. I modelled my return dropping below 10%.

*note: my write offs are high so maybe I have just been unlucky and/or not properly diversified (I had 100's of loans so should have been).

[Finite]

I see a couple of people here have said they are not going to continue with Harmoney and are going to pull funds as they expire.

-What is your reasoning for pulling funds?

I thought even with defaults and fees the return was fairly good ( over 10% RAR)

Lack of the promised secondary market - no liquidity!
How hard could it be to get the institutional investors to buy loans at their book value?
This could be a first step until a trading platform is developed.

[Harvey Specter]

Lack of the promised secondary market - no liquidity!
How hard could it be to get the institutional investors to buy loans at their book value
This could be a first step until a trading platform is developed.Especially since the high-risk time for loans is apparently the first 9-12 months so in theory, buying aged loans should be a better investment.

[CR111]

Interesting that none of the borrowers on today's loans have any income. Must be "free money day".

[Darchie]

Harmoney seem to be having a Lot of issues over past few days ... i see currently 10 loans on offer .. one C loan wont even display detail and rest all have zero income YET OMG! They are almost fill.

[Kelvin]

^^ an example of one of the many reasons I no longer invest with Harmoney

[whitt]

REVIEW
Over the past year I have found the following:

-10% of Harmoney loans are worth investing and match my own personal criteria.
-Any arrears I get are often limited to the poorer grades. If |I get an arrear in better grades they seem to be resolved fast.
-Unsure how they grade them. Often they can be a "B" but have high repayments per month or be for a poor reason. Why does someone need a high interest loan for a 25k car when a 15k car will be satisfactory?
-Loans come online at random times of day, as there is no notification option you would need to constantly login during day to find good deals.
-Good criteria loans go fast ( less than 1 hr) but in saying that the high risk ones also get taken but sit around many hours longer.
-Customer service is hit and miss. Often the person on end of phone can be nice but you don't get a followup with answers you rang for

[kiwi_on_OE]

Harmoney seem to be having a Lot of issues over past few days ... i see currently 10 loans on offer .. one C loan wont even display detail and rest all have zero income YET OMG! They are almost fill.

I see a few at the moment. It really is pretty sloppy. But my experience from UK, is that they are not alone, but they probably are the worst.

Re a secondary market, I think some issues around that involve whether loan has been in arrears, default etc. and what info you pass on, and/or whether you allow a loan to be sold in those circumstances etc. Think about it the other way, if someone was trying to sell you a loan, what would you wonder about. If nothing, then I've got some loans in arrears to sell you.

Of course these may not be Harmoney's reasons.

[Bjauck]

REVIEW
Over the past year I have found the following:

-10% of Harmoney loans are worth investing and match my own personal criteria.
-Any arrears I get are often limited to the poorer grades. If |I get an arrear in better grades they seem to be resolved fast.
-Unsure how they grade them. Often they can be a "B" but have high repayments per month or be for a poor reason. Why does someone need a high interest loan for a 25k car when a 15k car will be satisfactory?
-Loans come online at random times of day, as there is no notification option you would need to constantly login during day to find good deals.
-Good criteria loans go fast ( less than 1 hr) but in saying that the high risk ones also get taken but sit around many hours longer.
-Customer service is hit and miss. Often the person on end of phone can be nice but you don't get a followup with answers you rang for
Thanks for your first year appraisal.
Re: the 25k car instead of a 15k one. It is an issue that goes to the basis of a consumer finance industry:) However there could be valid reasons - a large family requiring a reliable and efficient vehicle etc. If from Auckland, to find affordable accommodation you may have to live on the periphery away from public transport. Consequently a good car that will not breakdown or overheat when dawdling in traffic jams is increasingly more important.

[Harvey Specter]

I see a few at the moment. It really is pretty sloppy. But my experience from UK, is that they are not alone, but they probably are the worst.

Re a secondary market, I think some issues around that involve whether loan has been in arrears, default etc. and what info you pass on, and/or whether you allow a loan to be sold in those circumstances etc. Think about it the other way, if someone was trying to sell you a loan, what would you wonder about. If nothing, then I've got some loans in arrears to sell you.

Of course these may not be Harmoney's reasons.They do in in the US. A loan which has been in arrears might sell for 80c in the dollar. A high risk loan but with no arrears in the first year might sell for $1.10 (though probably not with Harmoney as they will just refinance!).

[whitt]

Thanks for your first year appraisal.
Re: the 25k car instead of a 15k one. It is an issue that goes to the basis of a consumer finance industry:) However there could be valid reasons - a large family requiring a reliable and efficient vehicle etc. If from Auckland, to find affordable accommodation you may have to live on the periphery away from public transport. Consequently a good car that will not breakdown or overheat when dawdling in traffic jams is increasingly more important.
If from Auckland a decent size car to sleep in also

[Broke]

Rar just updated.. Cant complain really. I don't see any investment vehicles that will yield this much, even if you take into account the write-offs. RAR might go down as the loans mature, who knows, we'll see.
Offtopic but Lendingcrowd has been good to me so far, too

still investing with HM and LC

[Harvey Specter]

I keep getting hammered by write-offs. My RAR is now under 13%.

[Cool Bear]

Rar just updated.. Cant complain really. I don't see any investment vehicles that will yield this much, even if you take into account the write-offs. RAR might go down as the loans mature, who knows, we'll see.
Offtopic but Lendingcrowd has been good to me so far, too

still investing with HM and LC
wow, 16.06 is very high! May I know how many loans you are in and how long? I am now at over 2000 loans after about 12 months and RAR of 13+ with $000 of chargeoffs. With the new fees, I reckon my RAR will be about the same in both HM and LC at best.

[Broke]

700+ loans around 20k+ NZD invested, weighted towards A and B loans. Mostly single notes, but some loans have 4 notes or more. 80% for 60 months 20% for 36 months.

I've gone as high as 17% but it doesnt hover around there for too long. Also invested the bulk before june.

My rar might drop to 12% - 13% after most of the pre-june loans get paid or written off.

2000+ loans with no write-offs is very impressive, in your case. The bulk of my arrears come from E and F loans. What loan grades do you prefer?

[Cool Bear]

700+ loans around 20k+ NZD invested, weighted towards A and B loans. Mostly single notes, but some loans have 4 notes or more. 80% for 60 months 20% for 36 months.

I've gone as high as 17% but it doesnt hover around there for too long. Also invested the bulk before june.

My rar might drop to 12% - 13% after most of the pre-june loans get paid or written off.

2000+ loans with no write-offs is very impressive, in your case. The bulk of my arrears come from E and F loans. What loan grades do you prefer?

Sorry for the miscommunication. I have 47 charge offs - "$000" ($thousands) of charge-off. Mostly in E and F.

Have been in since June 2015. So, far, the charge offs comes between 5 to 9 months of the loans with an average so far of 6.8months. The soonest was 2.1months and the slowest was 11.8months.

When you said June, did you mean June 2016 or June 2015? If you only started this year, then do be prepared for the charge offs to come later.

my loans profile is:

[Broke]

started late 2015 but, i wouldnt be surprised if the future charge-offs degrade my RAR. I m hoping since the bulk of my loans are less risky A and B, I might not see as much write-offs.

[Cool Bear]

started late 2015 but, i wouldnt be surprised if the future charge-offs degrade my RAR. I m hoping since the bulk of my loans are less risky A and B, I might not see as much write-offs.

with the new fees and the way defaults are going, I reckon my RAR will eventually (maybe after another year) to drop to between 11 to 12% which will be less than my LC's RAR (at the moment above 12%). But then I am in LC for only about 5 months so early days yet to compare the two.

[whitt]

Interesting to note, I have 4 arrears currently and two are C grade and the other 2 are D grade. This is a bit of a worry if you see my spread as I have very few D grade loans.

Snapshot attached

8184

[whitt]

Sorry for the miscommunication. I have 47 charge offs - "$000" ($thousands) of charge-off. Mostly in E and F.

Have been in since June 2015. So, far, the charge offs comes between 5 to 9 months of the loans with an average so far of 6.8months. The soonest was 2.1months and the slowest was 11.8months.

When you said June, did you mean June 2016 or June 2015? If you only started this year, then do be prepared for the charge offs to come later.

my loans profile is:

How have you found your arrears spread?

[Cool Bear]

How have you found your arrears spread?
I analysed it just once some months ago but did not keep the results. Too much time doing it and not that meaningful as whether an arrear become a write-off or not is difficult to predict. Now, I hardly looked at the arrears at all.

[Bjauck]

I analysed it just once some months ago but did not keep the results. Too much time doing it and not that meaningful as whether an arrear become a write-off or not is difficult to predict. Now, I hardly looked at the arrears at all. I imagine the longer a note is in arrears the more likely it will be charged off. So when looking at your notes in arrears, a note one month in arrears will be less likely to convert to a charge off than a note three months in arrears. Has anyone studied that?.

[Cool Bear]

I imagine the longer a note is in arrears the more likely it will be charged off. So when looking at your notes in arrears, a note one month in arrears will be less likely to convert to a charge off than a note three months in arrears. Has anyone studied that?.
Yes, I did a quick calculation about 2 weeks ago, tallying up my arrears into before March, March, April and May (based on last payment) and then arbitrarily assigning a percentage to each months total - eg, before March 100%, March, 80% and so on.. I estimated that I will get another $2000+ charge-offs in the next few months.

[whitt]

Yes, I did a quick calculation about 2 weeks ago, tallying up my arrears into before March, March, April and May (based on last payment) and then arbitrarily assigning a percentage to each months total - eg, before March 100%, March, 80% and so on.. I estimated that I will get another $2000+ charge-offs in the next few months.
Good to know. My oldest arrears is April so going by your theory i will predict 60% charge off chance

[Saamee]

Over the last week I just witnessed my Arrears grow by $50 to $150. I thought here we go many new Write offs coming.

Then over the last 2 days I had 3 loans repaid early.

Then today I see that the Arrears have gone Down correspondingly!

So the moral ( perhaps ) Growing Arrears does not always equal new Write Offs!

Anyone else witnessed this happening?

[WingingIt]

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/harmoney-generates-86-mln-revenue-first-year-b-192115

Who's got an idea where these came from?. Institutional only maybe? "while performance fees when a lender's portfolio beat an agreed return were $798,000"

[Cool Bear]

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/harmoney-generates-86-mln-revenue-first-year-b-192115

Who's got an idea where these came from?. Institutional only maybe? "while performance fees when a lender's portfolio beat an agreed return were $798,000"
Definitely. Harmoney will be managing money from the likes of Heartland. One do not imagine Heartland having a few full time staff to go through the loans available and loan so many notes each to every loan. As in all money (funds) management, there is a always a performance fee if you manage to beat a certain benchmark.

[Cool Bear]

Over the last week I just witnessed my Arrears grow by $50 to $150. I thought here we go many new Write offs coming.

Then over the last 2 days I had 3 loans repaid early.

Then today I see that the Arrears have gone Down correspondingly!

So the moral ( perhaps ) Growing Arrears does not always equal new Write Offs!

Anyone else witnessed this happening?

Your arrears also drops when there is a charge-off. It is the age of the arrears that matters more. The total amount of arrears fluctuates greatly - sometimes depending on whether Harmoney process the payments from the borrowers. Often there is a backlog and then a sudden increase in cash available (and reduction in the arrears).

By the way, just is case some here (not you Saamee) are unaware of the distinction. The arrears is just the total amount of payments due from the borrowers that are not paid yet (including interest) not the total principal owing by these delinquent borrowers. That amount (at risk) can be at least 10 times more and if you want to find that out, you have to add up all the outstanding principal owing. Most of you will already know this so just a reminder!:)

[JohnMac]

Reading this report http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/7053fab7/harmoney-generates-8-6-mln-of-revenue-in-first-year.html it is a little worrying that Harmoney has lost more than double in its second year of operation compared to its first year. I presume the increase in fees will go towards improving profit but now sure that is going to be enough. The peer to peer market is becoming a bit saturated so not sure if the is much growth there either. Wonder if the money owing but not paid due to conditions not being met refer to their IT systems :)

[Soolaimon]

A year ago Harmoney had 50 something staff which I thought was a lot but now, apparently they have 80.!!! How can this be profitable and what would they all be doing????? No wonder their losses are increasing.

[CR111]

I wonder how many of the 80 are employed to chase up accounts in arrears.

[Cerium]

First time poster here, found this site while searching for some people's experiences with Harmoney. Reading through this thread it looks like most people have pursued a different strategy to me (targeting lower risk A-C loans) so I thought I would share my results so far. Harmoney has been my first experience with investing outside of my Kiwi Saver and Australian superannuation accounts. I'm also planning to purchase shares in a few ASX and NZX listed gold miners, and maybe a few other companies along the way.

So far I've deposited $5550 into my account and invested in mostly 36 month E grade loans, although I've noticed it's becoming much harder to find any loans at all to invest in over the last month or so. I reinvest any repayments so the total Loan investments (funded) is $8225 across 124 loans. Charged off principal is $47 so far, although I'm expecting that to increase over time. RAR is sitting around 23% which I have been exceptionally pleased with. I guess time will tell whether that is sustainable or if it will decline as more loans get charged off.

8190

Looking forward to learn a whole lot more about investing from the community here :)

[Bjauck]

...
So far I've deposited $5550 into my account and invested in mostly 36 month E grade loans, although I've noticed it's becoming much harder to find any loans at all to invest in over the last month or so. I reinvest any repayments so the total Loan investments (funded) is $8225 across 124 loans. Charged off principal is $47 so far, although I'm expecting that to increase over time. RAR is sitting around 23% which I have been exceptionally pleased with. I guess time will tell whether that is sustainable or if it will decline as more loans get charged off. ... That is a pretty good return for a good amount invested. Did you drip feed your capital into Harmoney over the past year?

[Harvey Specter]

With a rar that high and minimal write-offs, I am guessing you haven't been going over a year.

[emveha]

What a shame. Harmoney to plead guilty to misleading consumers.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11685047

[JohnMac]

What a shame. Harmoney to plead guilty to misleading consumers.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11685047

Things must be getting desperate. Cant wait until I have withdrawn all my investments from them.

[Bjauck]

Things must be getting desperate. Cant wait until I have withdrawn all my investments from them. It sounds like it was an OTT aggressive marketing attempt.

[Longhaul]

Purely as an interested observer, I wonder how P2P lending will perform during a recession?

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

[WingingIt]

Purely as an interested observer, I wonder how P2P lending will perform during a recession?

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

Does defaulting on a Harmoney loan carry the same penalties as one with a bank? Or do they not have the same protections and strike on credit record.

[PennyPicker]

@Longhaul, good question; It's something that's been discussed a bit on the Lend Academy podcast (http://www.lendacademy.com/category/podcast/). Remembering, that in the US, p2p lending started during the GFC, which is a tick in the box that there's stability there. But it's still formally untested in a recession like you're referring to.

Et al, as a note, the most recent LC podcast, episode 69, is with Jon Barlow, Founder of Eaglewood Capital. It was a really, really good listen. There's a good section where they cover p2p lending in Australasia.

Of note, he's exiting investing in unsecured consumer credit because as he reads the macro economics, it's not doing as well as other consumer lending markets. This is primarily because banks and investment funds have been able to flood the platforms with capital for low risk investments and that has depressed the interest rates in the US. He sees the US market as going through a commoditisation process.

[PennyPicker]

Things must be getting desperate. Cant wait until I have withdrawn all my investments from them.

I don't agree that 'things must be getting desperate', the dates were April 2014 - Oct 2015. Granted a long period, but nearly a year ago.

I'm of the view that people and businesses err, and it's how they deal with those errors afterwards that matters.

[RMJH]

Purely as an interested observer, I wonder how P2P lending will perform during a recession?

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

Zopa have been going over 10 years... And of course there is data on unsecured lending going back decades.

[emveha]

I don't agree that 'things must be getting desperate', the dates were April 2014 - Oct 2015. Granted a long period, but nearly a year ago.

I'm of the view that people and businesses err, and it's how they deal with those errors afterwards that matters.

I totally agree and the fact that they stopped the practice in 2015 and now pleaded guilty is for me a positive sign of confidence.

[Art]

"Originally Posted by JohnMac http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?p=630459#post630459) Things must be getting desperate. Cant wait until I have withdrawn all my investments from them."



Sounds to me more like an over zealous marketing campaign which crossed the line of acceptability in NZ. We do have quite strong consumer protection legislation and it is enforced often enough to keep most bigger companies in line. These charges will not have any impact on any investment decisions I make.

[Art]

Purely as an interested observer, I wonder how P2P lending will perform during a recession?

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

That is going to be the true test of P2P lending. For what it is worth my guess is that the lower grades will have a lot more defaults and the better grades will have a few more but the increase will not be as extreme. I think if borrowers can retain their jobs they will tend to struggle through a recession.

But overall I think consumer lending is a much better bet than second and third mortgages to property developers - when it all turns to custard the first mortgagee sells them up and gets most or all of their money back leaving those next in the queue high and dry.

[Art]

The other issue for consumer lending P2P in a recession might be a lack of borrowers? When people are concerned about their income they stop spending.

[Bjauck]

The other issue for consumer lending P2P in a recession might be a lack of borrowers? When people are concerned about their income they stop spending. There is a Brexit recession brewing in the UK. There are indications that investment decisions are being put on hold. It will be interesting to see how UK P2P fares...if there are fewer borrowers.

[WingingIt]

This is a head scratcher for me. Supposed to be going out to September 2020 but have repaid over 60% of the principal already. Some early repayments maybe?
8207

[Saamee]

This is a head scratcher for me. Supposed to be going out to September 2020 but have repaid over 60% of the principal already. Some early repayments maybe?
8207

Could it just be a Borrower Proactively paying more Capital than they are rquired to pay.... Thus dimisnishing and paying off their loan sooner?

[emveha]

There is a Brexit recession brewing in the UK. There are indications that investment decisions are being put on hold. It will be interesting to see how UK P2P fares...if there are fewer borrowers.

So far no sign of slowing down on Funding Circle.

[humvee]

Your arrears also drops when there is a charge-off. It is the age of the arrears that matters more. The total amount of arrears fluctuates greatly - sometimes depending on whether Harmoney process the payments from the borrowers. Often there is a backlog and then a sudden increase in cash available (and reduction in the arrears).

By the way, just is case some here (not you Saamee) are unaware of the distinction. The arrears is just the total amount of payments due from the borrowers that are not paid yet (including interest) not the total principal owing by these delinquent borrowers. That amount (at risk) can be at least 10 times more and if you want to find that out, you have to add up all the outstanding principal owing. Most of you will already know this so just a reminder!:)

This is part of a comment I posted on the lending crowd thread - but it relates to this and prob belongs here

I wish harmoney gave me an easy way to find all loans that are in arrears by 35 days or more (I only have 2 arrears on lending crowd so its easy to find on there)

My current arrears is 25% higher then EVER before on harmoney - so im expecting another big round of write off's before the 20th-21st

[Darchie]

I too have noticed an increase in my arrears but one aspect must be noted here is ... that as from the day of their greedy fee increase! I Completely changed my investing style... and; have zero loans I've take as from 13th June showing any arrears! Maybe my selections before were too high risk!

[whitt]

I too have noticed an increase in my arrears but one aspect must be noted here is ... that as from the day of their greedy fee increase! I Completely changed my investing style... and; have zero loans I've take as from 13th June showing any arrears! Maybe my selections before were too high risk!
Most arrears I have found occur after 6 to 8 months so only time will tell if your new style will help.

What did you change style from and to?

I mainly am quite picky now myself. Don't invest in d,e or f and I make sure I carefully vet the borrower details of others. Not many decent loans to invest on since I tightened my criteria several months ago though.

[Darchie]

Most arrears I have found occur after 6 to 8 months so only time will tell if your new style will help.


What did you change style from and to?

I mainly am quite picky now myself. Don't invest in d,e or f and I make sure I carefully vet the borrower details of others. Not many decent loans to invest on since I tightened my criteria several months ago though.

Initially I was taking A through to F but mainly D & E with quite a few F loans ... putting higher dollar amounts in mainly A & B's. But soon found I was being slaughtered with Those Re-writes so ... So then decided i had to avoid A loan.
Hell just prior to the fee increase on 13th june I'd increased my holdings ... but found i ended up with a large number of loans that have paid zero .. harmoney have got them down to now having seven arrears that have paid zero .. so that's not good.... l have 85 loans in arrears at the moment ...
My investing as from 13th June has changed ... mainly B with A & good selection of C ... there is a strick critera of an F loan that I do take ...and absolutely no D or E loans.
Yes am selective as well. Since 13th June I have not added any principal, only recycling what's already in there.
I realise the return is reduced with a much lower interest rate and increased fees ... but at the end of the day i just may retain more in my hand!

[whitt]

Initially I was taking A through to F but mainly D & E with quite a few F loans ... putting higher dollar amounts in mainly A & B's. But soon found I was being slaughtered with Those Re-writes so ... So then decided i had to avoid A loan.
Hell just prior to the fee increase on 13th june I'd increased my holdings ... but found i ended up with a large number of loans that have paid zero .. harmoney have got them down to now having seven arrears that have paid zero .. so that's not good.... l have 85 loans in arrears at the moment ...
My investing as from 13th June has changed ... mainly B with A & good selection of C ... there is a strick critera of an F loan that I do take ...and absolutely no D or E loans.
Yes am selective as well. Since 13th June I have not added any principal, only recycling what's already in there.
I realise the return is reduced with a much lower interest rate and increased fees ... but at the end of the day i just may retain more in my hand!
Looking at Harmoneys own published stats the D,E and F loans have most of the arrears. Basically the stats show they are as predicted but the platforms stats show very little arrears in A, B and C. I am now trending to C mainly now but suspect the newly changed fees structure will make further Harmoney investing unlikely from me..

[Finite]

I'm really baffled.
Why do so many people here think they are better at predicting default rates than the staff at Harmony (who have far more knowledge about the borrower) and have been doing consumer finance for decades and have a ton of sophisticated modelling tools?

[whitt]

I'm really baffled.
Why do so many people here think they are better at predicting default rates than the staff at Harmony (who have far more knowledge about the borrower) and have been doing consumer finance for decades and have a ton of sophisticated modelling tools?

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not?

I thought Harmoney was a new company in NZ so how can they been doing it for decades?

Remember grades such as "C" also have sub grades eg "C1 C2 C3" Bearing this in mind if Harmoney quotes a historic default rate of say 1.20% then this is the average across the entire "C" grade. (See platform stats for accurate info).
As Harmoney usually has plenty of loans to invest in being able to manually cherry pick the best loans in each Grade will improve defaults further for yourself.

[Finite]

I thought Harmoney was a new company in NZ so how can they been doing it for decades?



I'm talking about the principal staff not the company.

How come your cherry picking is more accurate than Harmoneys methods?
Maybe you should go into business as a credit scoring agency :)

[RMJH]

I'm talking about the principle staff not the company.

How come your'e cherry picking is more accurate than Harmoneys methods?
Maybe you go into business as a credit scoring agency :)
There are always those who hope to beat the market. And good luck to them. Personally I take comfort in diversification (over 2000 loans) and it seems to work. That said I don't touch E or F or any business loans (which are sometimes hidden within Other). My overall return is about 20 pips above the platform rate though I did invest quite a lot in the period after rates went up but before investor charges followed suit. Arrears at about 3.5% but again expect these to deteriorate as my book matures.

[Harvey Specter]

As Harmoney usually has plenty of loans to invest in being able to manually cherry pick the best loans in each Grade will improve defaults further for yourself.Finite has a point. Harmoney have much more info than you so how can you cherry pick. I also assume they will constantly be reviewing their algorithm based on actual data. Plus given all the anomalies noted on this forum, how do you even know you are basing your decision on the correct info ;)

The simple things like dont loan to anyone dumb enough to be borrowing at over 20% for an overseas trip must already been factored in to a higher interest rate.

[kiwi_on_OE]

The simple things like dont loan to anyone dumb enough to be borrowing at over 20% for an overseas trip must already been factored in to a higher interest rate.

Which part is the dumb part? Going back to NZ at the end of the trip? ;-)

[IntheRearWithTheGear]

I wonder how they do debt recoveries on the charge offs.

For example i have 17 cents recovered out of $25 on a charge off.

Perhaps they sell the debt for a small fixed amount to a debt collector - who then attempts collects the full debt value to themselves ?

Anybody have any information ?

[Bjauck]

Which part is the dumb part? Going back to NZ at the end of the trip? ;-) Lending money to a 20-29 year old single person for an overseas trip must be one of the riskiest types of loans... greater chance of their staying overseas and "forgetting" the loan.

[mccollr]

Trade Me’s foray into the financial services market is yet to prove a winner with its fledgling insurance business under-performing and an investment in loss-making peer-to-peer lender Harmoney causing a drag on profits.
The Wellington-based online marketplace and classified advertising business today reported a 9.2 percent revenue uplift to $218 million for the year ended June with its general items marketplace restoring revenue growth after a two-year absence. Underlying profit was up 3.5 percent to $83 million and the company had a one-off impairment charge of $8.1 million from its struggling online dating business FindSomeone.
Net profit was 1 percent lower due to accounting for losses from the group’s 12.4 percent stake in lending platform Harmoney, the country’s first peer-to-peer lender which is facing increased competition from the arrival of other licensed P2P lenders Squirrel Money, LendMe, Lending Crowd and PledgeMe.
Harmoney reported a $14.2 million loss in the 2016 financial year, compared to $6.3 million the prior year and Trade Me’s share of the loss from continuing operations was $1.6 million, double the amount the prior year. Head of marketplace Stuart McLean has joined the Harmoney board.
Macdonald says the investment is a good fit as the two online platforms have a lot in common and he has confidence that it will pay off in the long-term as the new model for the lending industry gains traction.
Like many early-stage technology startups Harmoney continues to make losses and Macdonald wouldn’t be drawn on what share of losses Trade Me may need to account for in the 2017 financial year. Harmoney has said it is targeting cash flow neutrality – where the money coming in matches the money going out – this financial year.
Harmoney burned through $13 million of cash in the last financial year, after raising almost as much through share issues, and Macdonald points out the valuation in its latest fund-raisings were at a higher level than what Trade Me paid for its stake though that revaluation can’t be accounted for in its books.
Trade Me launched its insurance arm a year ago, selling car, general and house contents insurance direct online. It is underwritten by Tower Insurance.
Sales have been low, though Trade Me wouldn't provide volume or revenue numbers, and has only carried out a low level of marketing so far. Macdonald said it was “early days” and he still believes in the long-term opportunity.
“We’ve had a few performance issues we’ve had to iron out. At the moment we’ve seen low volumes and lower than anticipated a year ago,” he said. “We’ve now got it to a place from experimenting and learning where we have confidence to scale it up.”
Trade Me acquired the life insurance comparison website Life Direct in 2013.
BusinessDesk.co.nz

[winner69]

Heartland say they have $37m loans through Harmony (can gomto $85m)

Suppose you guys are getting your your fair share

[Bjauck]

....
Harmoney reported a $14.2 million loss in the 2016 financial year, compared to $6.3 million the prior year....
Harmoney burned through $13 million of cash in the last financial year...
BusinessDesk.co.nz Reasons why they have recently hiked up the fees for retail investors, no doubt.

[andrewfreestuff]

I'm new to this thread. I have read the last 30 or so pages and not seen this covered, but perhaps it was earlier.

What length of loan do you tend to target, 36 month or 60month, and why? Or don't you care.

Apologies if covered earlier, if so just point me to the comment(s)

Cheers

[Darchie]

I'm new to this thread. I have read the last 30 or so pages and not seen this covered, but perhaps it was earlier.


What length of loan do you tend to target, 36 month or 60month, and why? Or don't you care.

Apologies if covered earlier, if so just point me to the comment(s)

Cheers
My personal findings ... ive had far less grief all round from 60 mths
I Have a much higher number of 36mths loans in arrears with zero payments

[whitt]

I'm new to this thread. I have read the last 30 or so pages and not seen this covered, but perhaps it was earlier.

What length of loan do you tend to target, 36 month or 60 month, and why? Or don't you care.

Apologies if covered earlier, if so just point me to the comment(s)

Cheers
Length doesn't matter to me I would prefer spend my time cherry picking thru the loans borrower info.

[RMJH]

I'm new to this thread. I have read the last 30 or so pages and not seen this covered, but perhaps it was earlier.

What length of loan do you tend to target, 36 month or 60month, and why? Or don't you care.

Apologies if covered earlier, if so just point me to the comment(s)

Cheers
Not too bothered but as loans typically go bad in the first year there might be some small advantage in a portfolio of longer duration though a significant proportion of loans are rewritten. Diversification is the key.

[Cool Bear]

hammered by bad loans today - 5 loans written off today so far. Will be interesting to see what that does to my RAR which will be published soon, I presume. Hopefully the new calculation takes these write offs into account.

[andrewfreestuff]

Not too bothered but as loans typically go bad in the first year there might be some small advantage in a portfolio of longer duration though a significant proportion of loans are rewritten. Diversification is the key.

I had, perhaps wrongly, the opposite view. I assumed that if the average time to failure was 1 year then you would be best to have short duration loans as you would have received 1/3rd of the repayments before it went bad, vs only 1/6th Is my reasoning incorrect? With that in mind I have only invested in 36 month loans.

As everyone is publishing their performance I thought I would share mine. I have only invested in A or B grade loans, always 36 months. Never for anyone over 50, never for business loans or cars or loans to family. Never invested in a rewrite - my philosophy being that if they are the type of person who keeps digging themselves into debt then they aren't truly trying to improve their debt position. To date I haven't had a single write off (touch wood). But I have WAAAY less invested than many others here.

[Saamee]

I had, perhaps wrongly, the opposite view. I assumed that if the average time to failure was 1 year then you would be best to have short duration loans as you would have received 1/3rd of the repayments before it went bad, vs only 1/6th Is my reasoning incorrect? With that in mind I have only invested in 36 month loans.

As everyone is publishing their performance I thought I would share mine. I have only invested in A or B grade loans, always 36 months. Never for anyone over 50, never for business loans or cars or loans to family. Never invested in a rewrite - my philosophy being that if they are the type of person who keeps digging themselves into debt then they aren't truly trying to improve their debt position. To date I haven't had a single write off (touch wood). But I have WAAAY less invested than many others here.


Just out of interest.... ;) I think you will find a 5 Year loan is 1/5th ( 20% )!

[Saamee]

Does anyone else get this following little quirk sometimes when Withdrawing funds from your HM account?

After completing a Withdrawl and taking out ALL availble shown funds.... ( leaving zero funds behind )

Afterwards, you are then shown even more funds still in your account available to still be withdrawn?

This can go on for 2 to 4 Withdrawls before you do finally get to getting to a Zero funds balance ....

I've not said anythng here, before but it still happen 3 or 4 times a week!

[RMJH]

I had, perhaps wrongly, the opposite view. I assumed that if the average time to failure was 1 year then you would be best to have short duration loans as you would have received 1/3rd of the repayments before it went bad, vs only 1/6th Is my reasoning incorrect? With that in mind I have only invested in 36 month loans.

As everyone is publishing their performance I thought I would share mine. I have only invested in A or B grade loans, always 36 months. Never for anyone over 50, never for business loans or cars or loans to family. Never invested in a rewrite - my philosophy being that if they are the type of person who keeps digging themselves into debt then they aren't truly trying to improve their debt position. To date I haven't had a single write off (touch wood). But I have WAAAY less invested than many others here.
The way I see it: Assuming loss is after 1 year and assuming you re-invested in another 3 year loan your chances of getting a write-off increase (you pass the 1 year mark more often over time). Crudely, 67% x (5/3) > 80%. But I think you can be too picky given the scarcity of loans as the risk of lack of diversification is the biggest issue. If you have not had any charge-offs it may be because you lack sufficient diversification....

[andrewfreestuff]

The way I see it: Assuming loss is after 1 year and assuming you re-invested in another 3 year loan your chances of getting a write-off increase (you pass the 1 year mark more often over time).

That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that. I'm no maths whizz!


But I think you can be too picky given the scarcity of loans as the risk of lack of diversification is the biggest issue. If you have not had any charge-offs it may be because you lack sufficient diversification....

Could you explain that further? I only put a single $25 ticket into any loan so I have as good a diversification as I could get I guess ? Thanks

[Darchie]

Does anyone else get this following little quirk sometimes when Withdrawing funds from your HM account?

After completing a Withdrawl and taking out ALL availble shown funds.... ( leaving zero funds behind )

Afterwards, you are then shown even more funds still in your account available to still be withdrawn?

This can go on for 2 to 4 Withdrawls before you do finally get to getting to a Zero funds balance ....

I've not said anythng here, before but it still happen 3 or 4 times a week!

Yeah ... then play catchup!

[Saamee]

Yeah ... then play catchup!

Thanx for seconding that quirk ( you always wonder if it's just you! ) I guess it's been going on now for about 3 months... most likely after a platform software change....

[RMJH]

That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that. I'm no maths whizz!



Could you explain that further? I only put a single $25 ticket into any loan so I have as good a diversification as I could get I guess ? Thanks
As a rule of thumb it is best to have at least 100 loans of each of the higher bands in which you invest( 100 A's and 100 B's). The lower the grade the higher the number needed to get full benefits of diversification. This is a bit counter-intuitive because the temptation is to dabble with a few higher risk loans whereas you should actually have more to reduce risk of negative returns. I also do C and D but have several hundred of each based on statistical research by others. I don't think the returns on E & F are worth the risk at this point but with a couple of years of data might re-think. Good luck!

[Darchie]

Ever since the new fee structure kicked in 13th June I've had a Very VERY STRICT rigid criteria that I adhere too.....
Since 13th I've taken 261 loans and in amongst those there's 2 different "F grade" loans that are NOT within my criteria. .... i find this somewhat unsettling! !

Initially I'd kept a personal listing of each loan i went into ... but over time drifted away from that...
I know some would put this down to human error on my part!!! BUT But but!!

Has anyone else kept tight records and found similar quirks ... or even like me quite puzzled as to why these two loans are in my stable!

[Bjauck]

I see the latest retail RAR is now 13.44% - up from July despite the increase in retail fees for new loans.

[Cool Bear]

I see the latest retail RAR is now 13.44% - up from July despite the increase in retail fees for new loans.
Yeap, surprisingly my RAR went up this month. But then I had 5 loans written off two days later. The RAR was dated 20th August even though it was published a 2 or 3 days later

[RMJH]

I see the latest retail RAR is now 13.44% - up from July despite the increase in retail fees for new loans.
That is to be expected for those who have been in for a while because Harmoney cut the platform fee (to borrowers) and replaced it with higher interest rates but we lenders didn't get fee hikes to cover the hole in Harmoney's P&L for another six months. Effectively we got bonus rates for those months and those are now filtering through BUT this will slowly reverse over time as those loans move along the profile and are blended with new loans.

[permutation]

Does anyone else get this following little quirk sometimes when Withdrawing funds from your HM account?

After completing a Withdrawl and taking out ALL availble shown funds.... ( leaving zero funds behind )

Afterwards, you are then shown even more funds still in your account available to still be withdrawn?

This can go on for 2 to 4 Withdrawls before you do finally get to getting to a Zero funds balance ....

I've not said anythng here, before but it still happen 3 or 4 times a week!

I have found that what happens when you log in, you are looking at the snapshot of your account at exactly that point in-time. Harmoney does not have constant live updating.
So when you withdraw some funds an update may have occurred shortly after, then you will see the new balance.
They don't generally update on Monday or Tuesdays but otherwise increasing balance updates can happen at any time. I normally wait till late morning to withdraw funds. If the balance increases shortly after; then well there is more for the next withdrawal.
I have made no new investments since June 13 and the steady stream of withdrawals are handy for spending and redirecting to LC.

[Soolaimon]

It has taken nearly 2 years but I now have one or two loans that are in "credit" ie. I have my investment back and still have a year to go. That looks ok, but on the other hand I have been hit with 2 defaults of $120+ last month. That knocked the RAR %. Still ok with the performance but now I am only taking 1-2 notes rather than 4-6 in each loan. We will see how that goes.

[Saamee]

Am currently seeing many early repayments this week and arrears have fallen in half too.

[whitt]

Interesting loan on now


LAI*00072670 (https://investor.harmoney.com/)
C2 19.67%

60
1.04%
$16,750
Computer




$16k for a computer sounds unusual?

[Saamee]

Have been trialling a Beta of Provence Email Alerts for Harmony over the last week (run by Penny Picker). It's running very well. Anybody else interested in getting alerts get in touch with him via PM.

[Bjauck]

Interesting loan on now


LAI*00072670 (https://investor.harmoney.com/)
C2 19.67%
60
1.04%
$16,750
Computer




$16k for a computer sounds unusual?
Was it a rewrite? If so, maybe the additional amount was for a computer?

[Saamee]

Have been trialling a Beta of Provence Email Alerts for Harmony over the last week (run by Penny Picker). It's running very well. Anybody else interested in getting alerts get in touch with him via PM.




The following new Harmoney loans are available:


Loan ID
Grade
Rate
Term
Default Rate
Amount
Purpose
Funded


LAI*00072689
E3
35.33%
60
4.11%
$10,375
Business Cash Flow
4%


LAI*00072691
D4
28.7%
36
2.21%
$3,375
Loan to Family Member
38%


LAI*00072692
B3
15.16%
60
0.54%
$5,375
Clear Overdraft
13%

[kiwi_on_OE]

I'm just wondering what analysis people are using on their arrears?
Does anyone wish that Harmoney would provide better export data so that we could at least do some analysis of our own?
Does anyone else have these two loans in arrears?
LAI-00068752, last payment date and amount seem to have been on schedule
LAI-00066711, last payment amount significantly greater than payments to date

My thinking is that I'm more worried about loans in arrears that might default completely, than those that are slow payers (receiving something being better than nothing).
So I'm looking at how long since they made their last payment.
Has anyone worked out "likelihood of default given x months since last payment" numbers? Is that the way to do it?

About 60% of my arrears have made a payment in the last month, so I'm almost ignoring those. I guess/hope the likelihood of default on these is only 20%?
About 30% have had no payment in the last two months. Would these have a 60% likelihood of default?
And 10% are beyond that. I assume these have a very high likelihood of default, maybe 100%?

[Whippeedo]

Does anyone else get this following little quirk sometimes when Withdrawing funds from your HM account?

After completing a Withdrawl and taking out ALL availble shown funds.... ( leaving zero funds behind )

Afterwards, you are then shown even more funds still in your account available to still be withdrawn?

This can go on for 2 to 4 Withdrawls before you do finally get to getting to a Zero funds balance ....

I've not said anythng here, before but it still happen 3 or 4 times a week!

Yes I withdrew about 3ķ a few months back and the available balance didn't update after the withdrawal so I repeated the withdrawal thinking it didn't go through and ended up taking 6k out when I only had 3k. Ended up with a negative cash balance - I drew money out I didn't have. Surprised the system let me do that. Thought that was interesting. They asked for it back about a week later. IT department has a glitch. Wonder if it has been fixed.

[Whippeedo]

I'm just wondering what analysis people are using on their arrears?
Does anyone wish that Harmoney would provide better export data so that we could at least do some analysis of our own?
Does anyone else have these two loans in arrears?
LAI-00068752, last payment date and amount seem to have been on schedule
LAI-00066711, last payment amount significantly greater than payments to date

My thinking is that I'm more worried about loans in arrears that might default completely, than those that are slow payers (receiving something being better than nothing).
So I'm looking at how long since they made their last payment.
Has anyone worked out "likelihood of default given x months since last payment" numbers? Is that the way to do it?

About 60% of my arrears have made a payment in the last month, so I'm almost ignoring those. I guess/hope the likelihood of default on these is only 20%?
About 30% have had no payment in the last two months. Would these have a 60% likelihood of default?
And 10% are beyond that. I assume these have a very high likelihood of default, maybe 100%?

Yes I have asked for all loan and borrower data to be made exportable because if made available, one could analyse the data and make better investment decisions as a result. E.g. by doing a labourious manual check on all my arrears (by taking the age of borrowers of my loans from the website and matching to my exported loan's list - ridiculous to have to do this manually) I found the lowest age borowers made up the largest proportion of loans in arrears and visa versa for the older borrowers so I now invest accordingly but without having the data showing the age of borrower not in arrears it is kind of inconclusive too. Way too time consuming to do this on 100s of loans manually. Please give us the data Harmoney. I can't see any harm in us having access to it and I would expect it would be pretty simple to enable this ability from an IT perspective. I requested this a few months ago. No update from HM yet. As with many other enquires/requests I have made.

[Whippeedo]

hammered by bad loans today - 5 loans written off today so far. Will be interesting to see what that does to my RAR which will be published soon, I presume. Hopefully the new calculation takes these write offs into account.

What Loan grades were they? how many loans written off in each grade? Age of borrowers out of interest ?

[Darchie]

Yes I withdrew about 3ķ a few months back and the available balance didn't update after the withdrawal so I repeated the withdrawal thinking it didn't go through and ended up taking 6k out when I only had 3k. Ended up with a negative cash balance - I drew money out I didn't have. Surprised the system let me do that. Thought that was interesting. They asked for it back about a week later. IT department has a glitch. Wonder if it has been fixed.

Obviously not... as last week i was withdrawing $307 odd, was talking and not paying attention, thought oh what!!! this hasn't gone through so ended up redoing it a further two times ... but they all counted so i ended up with a negative balance of $600 odd for a few days until it all caught up. Only happened this one time though.

[Whippeedo]

Good morning,

Sharing some data, I hope this is helpful for other investors :)
Here are the basic results on my account as at yesterday.
I basically started in Feb 2016 and stopped lending/investing in this account in June.
I set up a different account for lending/investing from May 16 onwards but have not done a summary on that one yet)

Cheers!



Grade
paid off
current
cancelled
charged off
arrears
Total











A
3
49
1
0
0
53



5.66%
92.45%
1.89%
0.00%
0.00%
100.00%











B
18
80
0
0
2
100



18.00%
80.00%
0.00%
0.00%
2.00%
100.00%











C
32
168
2
0
6
208



15.38%
80.77%
0.96%
0.00%
2.88%
100.00%











D
35
221
2
0
13
271



12.92%
81.55%
0.74%
0.00%
4.80%
100.00%











E
22
137
3
0
12
174



12.64%
78.74%
1.72%
0.00%
6.90%
100.00%











F
9
65

1
21
96



9.38%
67.71%
0.00%
1.04%
21.88%
100.00%
















Total Loans
902

[Cool Bear]

What Loan grades were they? how many loans written off in each grade? Age of borrowers out of interest ?
d4 30-39, d5 40-49, d5 50-59, e5 20-29, f1 20-29.

[humvee]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/83657983/competition-watchdog-questions-the-status-of-harmoney-borrowers-fees

[DrewBroadley]

Yes I have asked for all loan and borrower data to be made exportable because if made available, one could analyse the data and make better investment decisions as a result. E.g. by doing a labourious manual check on all my arrears (by taking the age of borrowers of my loans from the website and matching to my exported loan's list - ridiculous to have to do this manually) I found the lowest age borowers made up the largest proportion of loans in arrears and visa versa for the older borrowers so I now invest accordingly but without having the data showing the age of borrower not in arrears it is kind of inconclusive too. Way too time consuming to do this on 100s of loans manually. Please give us the data Harmoney. I can't see any harm in us having access to it and I would expect it would be pretty simple to enable this ability from an IT perspective. I requested this a few months ago. No update from HM yet. As with many other enquires/requests I have made.

To summarise, you want additional columns to a report that highlight not only the transactions for the loan but the details of the borrower around that loan?

[whitt]

Good morning,

Sharing some data, I hope this is helpful for other investors :)
Here are the basic results on my account as at yesterday.
I basically started in Feb 2016 and stopped lending/investing in this account in June.
I set up a different account for lending/investing from May 16 onwards but have not done a summary on that one yet)

Cheers!


Whipeedo
Interesting stats thanks do you cherry pick the loans or just invest in any?
Your C and D grade arrears are twice that of platform predicted stats whilst E and F are only a few % higher than predicted.

From my experience arrears occur in first year mainly 6 to 8 months with most being cleared up quickly. Your arrears data should improve as a loan gets older and might settle back at predicted rates.

Most of my arrears occur with principal balance remaining of $22 to $23 which matches Harmoneys own hazard curves. Although I started 1 year ago and only invest in a,b,c and cherry pick them too. I don't have any arrears outside of this $22 to $23 range and all clear over a few months. My current RAR is stabilizing at around 16.3%

[whitt]

d4 30-39, d5 40-49, d5 50-59, e5 20-29, f1 20-29.
Nice info , Thanx.
Younger people tend to get graded with E and F as they have no history also. I have zero write offs with my A,B,C strategy after 12 months.

[Whippeedo]

To summarise, you want additional columns to a report that highlight not only the transactions for the loan but the details of the borrower around that loan?

I'd love to be able to have the ability to export to xcel, every field/column that you can see in the "Loan details" and "Borrower details".
If you go to Reports>Loans and click on any LAI you have invested in - there are 2 tabs with 30 odd fields - after lots of sorting in xcel you would have some very valuable insights when compared to loan real loan/borrower performance. It is mind boggling how much data mining/analysis you could do with those fields available.

You would find for e.g. that certain cities and areas of NZ default more than others, and/or sort by age-of-borrowers in arrears vs current, what are the results? If 50% of 20-29's go into arrears, I'm sorry but I'm not lending to that age bracket. And/or sort by monthly loan payment vs. percentage of borrowers income, its goes on and on. HM is sitting on all this data and I can't see the harm in empowering investors with the ability to draw our own conclusions from mining this data. If I was running a P2P platform it would be available from day one. Why wouldn't you? Give investors the ability to fine tune their investing strategy. Make a safe home for investment funds and it will flow in abundance.

On top of that I'd like to see/export the frequency and type of communication HM is having with borrowers in arrears so we can better predict the percentage of arrears that will convert to write-offs.

The current process is a black box. I have asked HM to let me know how long each of my arrears loans has been in arrears for. I still don't have an answer. come on this is fundamental info I feel I have a right to.

Still, I am an HM fan. They do more good than harm and should improve with time. Thanks HM :)

[Cool Bear]

Whipeedo
Most of my arrears occur with principal balance remaining of $22 to $23 which matches Harmoneys own hazard curves. Although I started 1 year ago and only invest in a,b,c and cherry pick them too. I don't have any arrears outside of this $22 to $23 range and all clear over a few months. My current RAR is stabilizing at around 16.3%
Wow. 16.3% is really high! Do you have a lot of loans? My RAR for 2300+loans (18 months) is just about 14% and I expect that to fall to about or below 12% eventually with the new fees and with defaults. Still a decent return.

[RMJH]

Wow. 16.3% is really high! Do you have a lot of loans? My RAR for 2300+loans (18 months) is just about 14% and I expect that to fall to about or below 12% eventually with the new fees and with defaults. Still a decent return.
Must be weighted towards C grade. If spread evenly would be a shade under 16% before fees and write-offs.

[Whippeedo]

Whipeedo
Interesting stats thanks do you cherry pick the loans or just invest in any?
Your C and D grade arrears are twice that of platform predicted stats whilst E and F are only a few % higher than predicted.

From my experience arrears occur in first year mainly 6 to 8 months with most being cleared up quickly. Your arrears data should improve as a loan gets older and might settle back at predicted rates.

Most of my arrears occur with principal balance remaining of $22 to $23 which matches Harmoneys own hazard curves. Although I started 1 year ago and only invest in a,b,c and cherry pick them too. I don't have any arrears outside of this $22 to $23 range and all clear over a few months. My current RAR is stabilizing at around 16.3%

Hi Whitt, the more of us that share our results the better I reckon.

I definitely choose each loan on its own merrits. Age preference 40+ repayment to income ratio around 10% and I like re - writes now that HMs policy/fees have changed. Borrower comments and purpose factor in to some degree.

Until we can export more data/fields and analyse the actual loan results/performance better that's the best I have to go on. You could spend all day/week/months even, bringing loan/borrower data from the the LAI info on the website into your xcel exports and manually but it wouldn't be much fun.

I really hope HM makes improvements on that front asap.

I have slowed up on my investing until I have a clearer picture on how my current loans will perform.

With a large Jump in arrears in the last few months and no practical analysis tools available to understand how to invest better it seems the prudent approach I hope.

Return of capital is more important than ROI but if the ROI is less than 20% net there are better places to put my money.

Good luck with your investments....once we have the tools to make better informed decisions we won't need luck. Cheers

If HM doesn't make improvements in this and other areas soon they are inviting new and existing competition to do it for them .HM are by far the market leader currently. The P2P concept and market has absolutely massive potential and they may lose their current head start advantage if things don't change soon.

[whitt]

Must be weighted towards C grade. If spread evenly would be a shade under 16% before fees and write-offs.
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Here you go. Correct mainly C grade. Originally had some D and F but stopped only a few months after starting those grades

[whitt]

Wow. 16.3% is really high! Do you have a lot of loans? My RAR for 2300+loans (18 months) is just about 14% and I expect that to fall to about or below 12% eventually with the new fees and with defaults. Still a decent return.
Only 100 loans so far. Harmoney is time consuming to find decent loans on. I do cherry pick also hoping to beat the platform stats on each grade.
Still 16% is a good start even is it drops to 15% since June

[JohnMac]

I see Harmoney is in the news again http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/83657983/competition-watchdog-questions-the-status-of-harmoney-borrowers-fees

[mccollr]

The Commerce Commission is gearing up to launch civil proceedings related to
the fees peer-to-peer lender Harmoney charges borrowers.

Harmoney said the High Court action - on a "case stated" basis -
would clarify whether Harmoney's platform fee was subject to the Credit
Contracts and Consumer Finance Act.

"The case stated procedure is rarely used and enables the courts to
provide a ruling on the interpretation of a particular law," the company
said.
Harmoney's joint chief executive, Neil Roberts, said that during the
platform's Financial Markets Authority licensing process the company worked
with "all stakeholders" and documented its business model in detail
following "extensive legal advice".

"As the first peer-to-peer provider to seek and obtain a license, we
consulted with the Commerce Commission and MBIE [the Ministry of Business,
Innovation and Employment] providing them with full details of our business
model including detailed information about fees," Roberts said.

The Commerce Commission questions that claim, however.

"It's not true that they gave us all their company information
including fees modelling before their launch," a Commerce Commission
spokesman told the Herald.

"They have also never produced their legal advice despite our requests
for it."

Harmoney hit back, saying MBIE corrospondence released under the Official
Information Act and emails proved the commission was consulted on fees and
other aspects of its business prior to the launch.

Harmoney charges a platform fee of $375 to borrowers of all
risk grades and loan amounts.

Harmoney chairman David Flack said he was committed to ensuring Harmoney,
New Zealand's first licensed peer-to-peer platform, complied with all laws and
regulations.
"It is disappointing that the Commerce Commission is seeking to clarify
the legal position - as it affects the entire peer-to-peer industry - by
bringing this case stated action by using Harmoney's operating model as the
basis for the judicial review," Flack said.

He said it was "highly problematic" when interpretation of each
law by government departments resulted in a lack of clarity around how
regulations applied to peer-to-peer platforms.

"For this reason we have also met with the Commerce and Consumer
Affairs Minister Paul Goldsmith to request that is issue be clarified by an
appropriate legislative change."

In a separate action, the Commerce Commission has filed Fair Trading Act
charges in the Auckland District Court alleging Harmoney misled users into
believing they had been approved for personal loans.

Harmoney reported a loss of $14.2 million from revenue of $8.6 million in
the year to March 31, 2016.

"Thousands of New Zealanders borrow and lend every day on the Harmoney
platform and we have gone about building, launching and operating the platform
in exactly the manner anticipated by the new legislation that made p2p
platforms possible in New Zealand," Roberts said.
"Harmoney has built a highly transparent and interactive marketplace
since it became the first operator in this new area of financial services in
New Zealand."

[DrewBroadley]

I'd love to be able to have the ability to export to xcel, every field/column that you can see in the "Loan details" and "Borrower details".
If you go to Reports>Loans and click on any LAI you have invested in - there are 2 tabs with 30 odd fields - after lots of sorting in xcel you would have some very valuable insights when compared to loan real loan/borrower performance. It is mind boggling how much data mining/analysis you could do with those fields available.

You would find for e.g. that certain cities and areas of NZ default more than others, and/or sort by age-of-borrowers in arrears vs current, what are the results? If 50% of 20-29's go into arrears, I'm sorry but I'm not lending to that age bracket. And/or sort by monthly loan payment vs. percentage of borrowers income, its goes on and on. HM is sitting on all this data and I can't see the harm in empowering investors with the ability to draw our own conclusions from mining this data. If I was running a P2P platform it would be available from day one. Why wouldn't you? Give investors the ability to fine tune their investing strategy. Make a safe home for investment funds and it will flow in abundance.

On top of that I'd like to see/export the frequency and type of communication HM is having with borrowers in arrears so we can better predict the percentage of arrears that will convert to write-offs.

The current process is a black box. I have asked HM to let me know how long each of my arrears loans has been in arrears for. I still don't have an answer. come on this is fundamental info I feel I have a right to.

Still, I am an HM fan. They do more good than harm and should improve with time. Thanks HM :)

Great insight, thanks.

[777]

Has anyone tried downloading a report from the website today? New process emails a link but all I got was an unreadable mess.

Why fix something that works.

[mccollr]

I just downloaded a report. Clicked the link and it asked what programme I wanted to open the CSV file with. Excel is the one for this type of file. All data intact. Had to resize a few columns but all tickety boo.

[Art]

I'd love to be able to have the ability to export to xcel, every field/column that you can see in the "Loan details" and "Borrower details".
If you go to Reports>Loans and click on any LAI you have invested in - there are 2 tabs with 30 odd fields - after lots of sorting in xcel you would have some very valuable insights when compared to loan real loan/borrower performance. It is mind boggling how much data mining/analysis you could do with those fields available.

You would find for e.g. that certain cities and areas of NZ default more than others, and/or sort by age-of-borrowers in arrears vs current, what are the results? If 50% of 20-29's go into arrears, I'm sorry but I'm not lending to that age bracket. And/or sort by monthly loan payment vs. percentage of borrowers income, its goes on and on. HM is sitting on all this data and I can't see the harm in empowering investors with the ability to draw our own conclusions from mining this data. If I was running a P2P platform it would be available from day one. Why wouldn't you? Give investors the ability to fine tune their investing strategy. Make a safe home for investment funds and it will flow in abundance.

On top of that I'd like to see/export the frequency and type of communication HM is having with borrowers in arrears so we can better predict the percentage of arrears that will convert to write-offs.

The current process is a black box. I have asked HM to let me know how long each of my arrears loans has been in arrears for. I still don't have an answer. come on this is fundamental info I feel I have a right to.

Still, I am an HM fan. They do more good than harm and should improve with time. Thanks HM :)

Looks like you have got at least some of your wishes - 45 columns of data now! Time to update my spreadsheet to allow the import of this data.

[777]

I just downloaded a report. Clicked the link and it asked what programme I wanted to open the CSV file with. Excel is the one for this type of file. All data intact. Had to resize a few columns but all tickety boo.

Thanks. I don't get that option.

[davidpoole]

Yes I have asked for all loan and borrower data to be made exportable because if made available, one could analyse the data and make better investment decisions as a result. E.g. by doing a labourious manual check on all my arrears (by taking the age of borrowers of my loans from the website and matching to my exported loan's list - ridiculous to have to do this manually) I found the lowest age borowers made up the largest proportion of loans in arrears and visa versa for the older borrowers so I now invest accordingly but without having the data showing the age of borrower not in arrears it is kind of inconclusive too. Way too time consuming to do this on 100s of loans manually. Please give us the data Harmoney. I can't see any harm in us having access to it and I would expect it would be pretty simple to enable this ability from an IT perspective. I requested this a few months ago. No update from HM yet. As with many other enquires/requests I have made.

I think they may have just added this functionality... go to Reports > Investments > Loans > Export...

You will then receive a link by email with a .csv of all the borrower data for your loans - it includes Age Band, Marital Status, Residential Status, Time at Residence, Time at Employer, last payment date, etc (40+ columns..?)

Also, this is my first post, hello!

Edit: Someone beat me to it! oh well...

[davidpoole]

Has anyone tried downloading a report from the website today? New process emails a link but all I got was an unreadable mess.

Why fix something that works.


Thanks. I don't get that option.

This happened for me too (the file opened in the web browser (safari) rather than downloading the file and opening it in Excel).

Just save that page of 'unreadable' text and give it a .csv file extension. then you can open it with Excel..

[humvee]

Looks like you have got at least some of your wishes - 45 columns of data now! Time to update my spreadsheet to allow the import of this data.

Does anyone have the link to that site that processes the harmoney csv file and graphs then - I know it was posted somewhere in the last 100 pages....

I wonder if the site will be updated to make use of the new data

[777]

[/COLOR]

This happened for me too (the file opened in the web browser (safari) rather than downloading the file and opening it in Excel).

Just save that page of 'unreadable' text and give it a .csv file extension. then you can open it with Excel..

Thank you. Yes opened in safari for me as well but try as I might I was unable to save it with a .csv extension. That will be due to my limitations.

Welcome to sharetrader.

[kiwi_on_OE]

I just downloaded a report. Clicked the link and it asked what programme I wanted to open the CSV file with. Excel is the one for this type of file. All data intact. Had to resize a few columns but all tickety boo.

Now we're getting somewhere. Now just need the data to be accurate.

68752 - status is arrears, but amount in arrears is 0.00 (rounding?)
68403 - payments to date 1.11, but no last payment date, 1 pymt should have been made, amount in arrears is 1.11

C'mon Harmoney, you've nearly cracked it.

[DrewBroadley]

Does anyone have the link to that site that processes the harmoney csv file and graphs then - I know it was posted somewhere in the last 100 pages....

I wonder if the site will be updated to make use of the new data


https://precis.azurewebsites.net :)

[kiwi_on_OE]

Now we're getting somewhere. Now just need the data to be accurate.

68752 - status is arrears, but amount in arrears is 0.00 (rounding?)
68403 - payments to date 1.11, but no last payment date, 1 pymt should have been made, amount in arrears is 1.11

C'mon Harmoney, you've nearly cracked it.

Perhaps Harmoney should've waited to release this new report until they had their data under better control.
10% of my arrears have an arrears of 0.00
33% of my arrears are less than 0.10 (so I'm hopefully that's just mis-timed repayments etc)
17% of my arrears record no payments (still 36/60) but have a last payment date and/or amount

I hope it's just because they're to busy dealing with the loans that are >3 months in arrears

[Saamee]

Strategy Paying Off....... Maybe??

Almost 6 months ago now we opened a HM account in my Wife's name and invested in 40 loans.

The loans were picked on experience from my own HM trading account with 300 loans....

What we did was Invest only in Re-Writes, that were at or near to being maxed limited out.

The theory being: The likely hood of No more rewrites to come....

So how has that theory gone in practice? Well no Write offs, No Arrears ( ever ) and No Rewrites....

8260

[humvee]

I need to do some number crunching to get some actual figures but here are some general observations (based on 2000+ loans in all status) I have attached grade and length distribution graph to give some more context

* No loans to home owners have been charged off
* Home owners and living with parents are over represented in canceled loans - Im assuming they both find cheaper finance sources before drawing down (or within cooling off period)
* It does NOT appear home owners are over represented in early repayments(including rewites)


8261

[humvee]

Still playing with what can be done with data

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8263
8264
8262
8265
8266

[Kelvin]

Nice one humvee

So according to your data: lend to older, not single, homeowners?

[mccollr]

[/COLOR]

This happened for me too (the file opened in the web browser (safari) rather than downloading the file and opening it in Excel).

Just save that page of 'unreadable' text and give it a .csv file extension. then you can open it with Excel..

Your computer may be set to open all CSV files in the web Browser.

[PennyPicker]

@Saamee @humvee Thank you guys, that's really informative what you've provided.

[PennyPicker]

FYI those that have been experiencing an error using http://www.precis.net.nz/ to graph their Harmoney loan statement today, I've uploaded a patch. It's working with the new file format now.

[whitt]

Nice one humvee

So according to your data: lend to older, not single, homeowners?
You beat me to answering this observation too

Loan length appears not to matter also.
Renters, boarder, 20-29 , single seem to be highly represented in your data of charge offs

[whitt]

You beat me to answering this observation too

Loan length appears not to matter also.
Renters, boarder, 20-29 , single seem to be highly represented in your data of charge offs


Opps this analysis could be distorted slightly as we don't know what grades Kelvin invests in or if he is weighted heavy in the riskier grades.

The criteria of being single, young , renting etc also happen to be criteria which finance companies use to give grades which have higher default rates

[humvee]

Nice one humvee

So according to your data: lend to older, not single, homeowners?

Yes BUT with a very big BUT ...... is this already reflected in the grades assigned and therefore the interest rate charged and the return - see attached

One thing to note in the early days I did not invest in C grade but do now, I have never really investeted in A & B grade. Recently I have been reducing exposure to F grade(since fee increase)

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8268
8269

[Halebop]

...based on 2000+ loans in all status...

8261


Humvee really intrigued by your data as a benchmark, mine to July below, sample size 2700 loans (but only 1900 current or arrears)

The attached is done on no qualitative assessment other than using Harmoney's rating (I don't do A or F and do less Bs and Es than Cs and Ds) i.e. just take a quant/weighting approach & trust their rating and law of bigger numbers

8270

[Halebop]

8271

Harmoney's Survey results are interesting. While I can't quite read the scores precisely, they indicate a net promoter style score of around -4 or -5, a fairly representative score of large finance service company brands.

Arguably not the result an innovator / challenger brand is looking for?

Edit: Need to add kudos for Harmoney sharing, most companies are too sensitive to share sentiment data.

[humvee]

This is probably the most important stats to me. It tells me IF my time spent selecting loans vs random is worth it - and if by being selective I am making things better or worse

I had to extract the platform data from the graph - so there is some reduced accuracy there - as it would appear other then the graph this data is not available.

For some reason I am underperforming the platform on F Grade Arrears - But I am overperforming the platform stats in all other areas including F grade charge-offs

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[Cool Bear]

Thanks for sharing your stats Humvee. Very interesting. Your 60 months loans are performing much better than your 36 months in terms of charge offs.

[RMJH]

This is probably the most important stats to me. It tells me IF my time spent selecting loans vs random is worth it - and if by being selective I am making things better or worse

I had to extract the platform data from the graph - so there is some reduced accuracy there - as it would appear other then the graph this data is not available.

For some reason I am underperforming the platform on F Grade Arrears - But I am overperforming the platform stats in all other areas including F grade charge-offs

8272
Write-off % would need to be on a similar age profile. Perhaps their stats are from the start of Harmoney whereas your figures are for a younger portfolio?

[humvee]

Write-off % would need to be on a similar age profile. Perhaps their stats are from the start of Harmoney whereas your figures are for a younger portfolio?

My oldest loan in Jan 2015

Harmoney 1st launched September 2014

[PennyPicker]

I've noticed over the past few weeks my charged off amount is creeping down, i.e. it's less than it was previously. Only by 1.5%. Anyone else seen this? Does it mean debt collection has reclaimed some of what was lost?

[Saamee]

I've noticed over the past few weeks my charged off amount is creeping down, i.e. it's less than it was previously. Only by 1.5%. Anyone else seen this? Does it mean debt collection has reclaimed some of what was lost?

PP > Harmoney added a new section a month or so back on the main page - see below... maybe answers your questions?

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[Wsp]

http://qz.com/420576/the-words-people-use-when-asking-to-borrow-money-can-foretell-whether-theyll-pay-you-back/

Thought some of you might be interested in this

[Wsp]

http://idealog.co.nz/venture/2014/11/masters-profiling-risks-how-harmoney-hit-ground-running-100-million-pocket-jumpstart-its-peer-peer-lending-platform

This article is also interesting. Harmoney tested their credit models against data from baycorp and got a 60% success rate which they claim is good. I presume this means that 40 percent of the time they got it wrong?!

[PennyPicker]

@Saamee, you're right of course, the difference value is present in the Recoveries field. Of note, the Charged-Off principal field still shows the original amount, not adjusted for the money recovered.

[RMJH]

http://idealog.co.nz/venture/2014/11/masters-profiling-risks-how-harmoney-hit-ground-running-100-million-pocket-jumpstart-its-peer-peer-lending-platform

This article is also interesting. Harmoney tested their credit models against data from baycorp and got a 60% success rate which they claim is good. I presume this means that 40 percent of the time they got it wrong?!

I expect they were given historical data and used their algorithm to predict which went bad. Given loans go bad due to unforeseen events that would seem a pretty good hit rate. So far default rates have been pretty low so Harmoney seem to be doing a good job in managing risk for us imo.

[777]

@Saamee, you're right of course, the difference value is present in the Recoveries field. Of note, the Charged-Off principal field still shows the original amount, not adjusted for the money recovered.

I am finding that the dashboard does not always update. If I withdraw some funds it then does an update.

[Whippeedo]

Looks like you have got at least some of your wishes - 45 columns of data now! Time to update my spreadsheet to allow the import of this data.

Wow! That's great news. Thanks for letting me know.

Big thanks to the Harmoney team for making this happen. This is exactly what is was asking and hoping for. You have given investors a great tool for loan performance reporting and analysis.

I think lenders will have more confidence and invest more now.

HM you will also benefit by spending less time on the phone and emails with investors asking questions which your new exportable fields give many of the answers to.

I'll be sending a thank you gift to your office.

Thanks again Harmoney. You have made my week!

[Whippeedo]

I think they may have just added this functionality... go to Reports > Investments > Loans > Export...

You will then receive a link by email with a .csv of all the borrower data for your loans - it includes Age Band, Marital Status, Residential Status, Time at Residence, Time at Employer, last payment date, etc (40+ columns..?)

Also, this is my first post, hello!

Edit: Someone beat me to it! oh well...

Hello, welcome, thank you and good luck with your investing. :)

[Whippeedo]

Strategy Paying Off....... Maybe??

Almost 6 months ago now we opened a HM account in my Wife's name and invested in 40 loans.

The loans were picked on experience from my own HM trading account with 300 loans....

What we did was Invest only in Re-Writes, that were at or near to being maxed limited out.

The theory being: The likely hood of No more rewrites to come....

So how has that theory gone in practice? Well no Write offs, No Arrears ( ever ) and No Rewrites....

8260

Thanks for sharing that. Interesting

I think it proves the point I made that data mining analysis of borrowers performance leads to better insights and investment decisions going forward.

Now imagine if all HM investors could get all of HM's loan/borrower/payment data (every individual loan) since HM started, in the newly expanded data export format.

Then we'd really be cooking with gas. The bigger the data set the better I reckon.

Cheers

[Whippeedo]

I need to do some number crunching to get some actual figures but here are some general observations (based on 2000+ loans in all status) I have attached grade and length distribution graph to give some more context

* No loans to home owners have been charged off
* Home owners and living with parents are over represented in canceled loans - Im assuming they both find cheaper finance sources before drawing down (or within cooling off period)
* It does NOT appear home owners are over represented in early repayments(including rewites)


8261

Thanks for this humvee, I like your thinking.

It's great to see the power of good data mining analysis in action.

I read something not long ago somewhere saying people with existing mortgages/home owners are the most reliable payers of any other unsecured loans they have too.

So when I am considering to choose a loan/borrower to invest in, if they already have a mortgage/home owner, I don't have to worry so much about if they have low income vs. high monthly payment commitments and all the other variables that I usually assess and consider.

Over the long term I think we'll see the market share of big banks, and maybe traditional finance companies, drop right off and be seriously challenged as the P2P industry develops. P2P could collectively and eventually have a bigger market share than the big banks, like 20 years into the future.

[Whippeedo]

This is probably the most important stats to me. It tells me IF my time spent selecting loans vs random is worth it - and if by being selective I am making things better or worse

I had to extract the platform data from the graph - so there is some reduced accuracy there - as it would appear other then the graph this data is not available.

For some reason I am underperforming the platform on F Grade Arrears - But I am overperforming the platform stats in all other areas including F grade charge-offs

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Fascinating isn't it. HM is much more fun now. You are beating the platform.

So how much would you charge me to belong to your "these are the loans I am buying right now" text alert service.

Monthly subscription basis? or maybe charge me for each loan you disclose you are buying.

;)

[Whippeedo]

Happy 100 pages on the HM sharetrader forum. Newbies start at the beginning please ;)

[777]

Here is my latest write off.

Has mortgage and a more than adequate income(if it is to be believed)
Total loan a mere $5300. About 12 days of his quoted income.



BORROWER COMMENTS
To start 2015 in a stronger financial position than 2014 has left me in.

LOAN PURPOSE:Other
AGE BAND:40-49
MARITAL STATUS:Married
NZ REGION:Wellington
RESIDENTIAL STATUS:Owned - Paying Mortgage
TIME AT RESIDENCE:20 years
TIME AT EMPLOYER:less than 1 year
DEFAULTS:0
ENQUIRIES LAST 6 MONTHS:0
INCOME TYPE:Employment or Self Employed
MONTHLY LOAN PAYMENT:$191.27
EST. DEFAULT RATE:**1.04%
MONTHLY INCOME (after tax)
BORROWER INCOME:$13,255.13

[Whippeedo]

Here is my latest write off.

Has mortgage and a more than adequate income(if it is to be believed)
Total loan a mere $5300. About 12 days of his quoted income.

BORROWER COMMENTS
To start 2015 in a stronger financial position than 2014 has left me in.

LOAN PURPOSE:Other
AGE BAND:40-49
MARITAL STATUS:Married
NZ REGION:Wellington
RESIDENTIAL STATUS:Owned - Paying Mortgage
TIME AT RESIDENCE:20 years
TIME AT EMPLOYER:less than 1 year
DEFAULTS:0
ENQUIRIES LAST 6 MONTHS:0
INCOME TYPE:Employment or Self Employed
MONTHLY LOAN PAYMENT:$191.27
EST. DEFAULT RATE:**1.04%
MONTHLY INCOME (after tax)
BORROWER INCOME:$13,255.13

B grade loan?
When did you invest in this loan and how long before it went into arrears?
How long before it was written off?

The system for assessing borrowers does worry me a little bit. How carefully is the supplied information assessed and crossed referenced by the HM team? Be good to know more about this process and the arrears & debt collection policy / system.

I've asked them a bit about it but the answers I did get were not specific enough and some questions have not been answered at all.

[RMJH]

Here is my latest write off.

Has mortgage and a more than adequate income(if it is to be believed)
Total loan a mere $5300. About 12 days of his quoted income.



BORROWER COMMENTS
To start 2015 in a stronger financial position than 2014 has left me in.

LOAN PURPOSE:Other
AGE BAND:40-49
MARITAL STATUS:Married
NZ REGION:Wellington
RESIDENTIAL STATUS:Owned - Paying Mortgage
TIME AT RESIDENCE:20 years
TIME AT EMPLOYER:less than 1 year
DEFAULTS:0
ENQUIRIES LAST 6 MONTHS:0
INCOME TYPE:Employment or Self Employed
MONTHLY LOAN PAYMENT:$191.27
EST. DEFAULT RATE:**1.04%
MONTHLY INCOME (after tax)
BORROWER INCOME:$13,255.13
Maybe a business cash flow loan in disguise.... ? I don't read most of the stories but always do for "Other" loans as I don't trust a consumer credit algorithm to predict risk on business loans. If you cannot determine what the loan is for then don't lend. One thing I would like to see is employment and self employment distinguished in the filters.

[777]

Issued 10/12/14.
Arrears 18/12/15
W/O 22/7/16

Grade C2

Total investment $250 and W/O $172.26

So if he still has his/her house then why can he/she not honour their loan.

I only raise the issue as having a mortgage does not necessarily tell you much.

[kiwi_on_OE]

So if he still has his/her house then why can he/she not honour their loan.


This reflects some of my thinking. Good to see Harmoney's comments about debt collection etc., it's a start, but the comments are fairly light weight. What really happens when someone says can't/won't pay? What's the legal situation, can we/harmoney go after other assets, or do we just say, oh that's a shame, best of lucky in the future, an toddle off into the sunset?

[whitt]

If I go to my dashboard and click on arrears it shows this list
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Interesting thing is they are all between $23.50 and $22 for outstanding principal. This matches Harmoney's own risk profile which suggests highest arrears rates will be 6 to 8 month mark on each loan.
Do others have similar results?

[kiwi_on_OE]

If I go to my dashboard and click on arrears it shows this list

Interesting thing is they are all between $23.50 and $22 for outstanding principal. This matches Harmoney's own risk profile which suggests highest arrears rates will be 6 to 8 month mark on each loan.
Do others have similar results?

Only a quarter of mine are in that category, the rest have had less paid off. I've been going since the start of the year, and the arrears are spread reasonably evenly over the months since. But that does include loans where the arrears is 0.00(c'mon Harmoney) or only a few cents.

[humvee]

One thing I would like to see is employment and self employment distinguished in the filters.

This is something I have been asking for for a while.The info already exists and is published here http://www.mortgagerates.co.nz/p2p-loans.html - just not in a format that is useful or practical to use when selecting loans

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