Harmoney

[RMJH]

I have got a pretty decent excel model, off the report data I can reconcile my RAR exactly, and forecast future RAR based on portfolio mix and long term platform stats.
I've run a sensitivity analysis on my portolfio mix, basically need defaults to increase by 500% to have RAR hit 0%. Based on a 10 / 25 / 22.5 / 20 / 17.5 / 5 % portfolio mix.

Obv move it towards more A / B and you have a greater resilience for a recession scenario, but it really requires default rates to skyrocket for RAR to be negative.
Nice work!

[Investor]

I'm now investing in payment protect loans as my available cash is trickling away too slowly.

[Whippeedo]

Wow some loans are being filled so dam fast I cant believe it.

I logged in about 5 minutes ago and 4 of the loans were barely filled.

In the time it took me to select a loan, read the borrower info and put my order in (not more than 20 seconds) each loan was fully subscribed.

Just wow. That must be a record for harmoney?? Never seen such speedy up take.

Some speedy hardcore investors out there dumping money into loans like it xmas or something ;)

[777]

Or the auto invest button was pushed.

[whitt]

Just checked my dashboard arrears and auto invest rules I created recently.

I am confident my rules will be quite solid going forward as the data I used in creating them is typical profiles of defaulters.
Currently have 7 in arrears ( Not written off) and all them would not have met the new auto invest rules I setup.

[BJ1]

They do provide some platform stats - latest update is from November.
https://www.harmoney.co.nz/investors/marketplace-statistics

Sorry, my mistake. I meant to suggest we see each actual against each expected default for all 30 grades, not just the average for A to F. Overall, it seems harmony is delivering to expectations and a well spread portfolio will have delivered much better returns than most other investment opportunities, without a lot of thought required. It just takes getting one's head around seeing the defaults come through and focussing only on the net rate of return on the portfolio - which is what the big players like Heartland are doing - just let it all run. However, I do think we could know more about borrower circumstances when defaults are posted.

[BJ1]

I've just noticed that in the 19 minutes since my last post Harmoney's record of loans written in the past 24 hours has risen from 775K to 1069K and 19 minutes ago there were two loans on the marketplace and now there are none. That seems like the big investors are getting to loans without them ever hitting the marketplace listing for we smaller investors to choose from?

[BJ1]

And 5 minutes later another 4 loans have been written and total in 24 hours is now 1130K. How can that happen with no loans showing as available?

[Bjauck]

... However, I do think we could know more about borrower circumstances when defaults are posted. I agree. For example whether the borrower has become bankrupt.

[mjplost]

And 5 minutes later another 4 loans have been written and total in 24 hours is now 1130K. How can that happen with no loans showing as available?

The big investors & auto lenders get first picks I believe.

[Saamee]

Does anybody else check that their Harmoney account Withdrawals do actually make it to your bank account?

This week after 18 months with Harmoney, for the 1st time I found that one of my Daily Withdrawals had not been processed and paid into my account.

Harmoney did not know about this error until notified - after investigation stated that their daily processing had failed to pick up the Withdrawal request....

That's why I check daily and reconcile.

[Finite]

im running out of loans to invest in.. im at 800 loans and I have trouble re-investing it all back, i still stick to 25$ per loan.. Thinking of putting more money into the ones with payment protect. Wonder if its better than the ones without

What's the problem?
To obtain the predicted returns you just need to be statistically diversified.
This does not mean having just $25 in each loan, it means spreading your total money over a statistically significant number of loans.

Is their anybody out there who can tell me "How many loans I need to be invested in to have a 95% probability of obtaining the predicted returns"

There sure will be people at Heartland Bank who know - they probably take a least 20% of each loan.

[BJ1]

Achieving the average RAR is just a matter of spreading enough money in the same proportions as Harmoney's overall portfolio and avoiding chunky exposures. An investor would have to be extremely unlucky to be hit with more than average defaults on that basis. There is no need to stick to $25 exposures as long as an investor is careful about chunks while building up a portfolio. I started with a risk profile similar to Harmoney's overall profile and it has worked for me even though some of my participations have been up to $1,400 - but I cherry pick based on 40 years lending experience. See my first post.

[Ellipsis]

Does anybody else check that their Harmoney account Withdrawals do actually make it to your bank account?

This week after 18 months with Harmoney, for the 1st time I found that one of my Daily Withdrawals had not been processed and paid into my account.

Harmoney did not know about this error until notified - after investigation stated that their daily processing had failed to pick up the Withdrawal request....

That's why I check daily and reconcile.

That happened to me this week too.

Two weeks ago they failed to pick up my deposit. It is quite disappointing that these issues still exist so long after launch.

My dashboard balances are constantly incorrect as well. This morning, my cash-available balance was in the negatives despite the fact that there was actually around $200 available. The error was eventually fixed in the afternoon without explanation.

God knows what other issues people have encountered...

[kiwi_on_OE]

Has anyone experienced auto-lending not working? I've had to manually invest in some loans today, that meet my auto-lend criteria and show up when I use that filter, but which weren't picked up by auto-lending. Auto-lend hasn't done anything for me today.

[whitt]

Has anyone experienced auto-lending not working? I've had to manually invest in some loans today, that meet my auto-lend criteria and show up when I use that filter, but which weren't picked up by auto-lending. Auto-lend hasn't done anything for me today.
Yes I have seen this also many times.
My is only assumption is Harmoney might have set a limit on how many auto lend buyers can buy each loan. This would be smart and fair from Harmoney behalf I would do same if my own company. If you didnt then manual investors would vanish quickly since they wont see loans as they get snapped up by auto investors. Eg Limit 50% of loans to autolend .

On a sidenote I find Autolend to be working well. as funds become available they do get used although sometimes it does take a few days.

[kiwi_on_OE]

Yes I have seen this also many times.
My is only assumption is Harmoney might have set a limit on how many auto lend buyers can buy each loan. This would be smart and fair from Harmoney behalf I would do same if my own company. If you didnt then manual investors would vanish quickly since they wont see loans as they get snapped up by auto investors. Eg Limit 50% of loans to autolend .


Thanks.

Whatever the reason, I think it is poor that they haven't done any auto-lending for me today, and that it happens to others too. They do mention a limit on the proportion of a loan that will be auto-lent. But I have my doubts that it is the case in this situation as the loan was about 50% filled, and is still not filled.

I'm only trying to use auto-lend because I see so few loans to manually invest in.

[whitt]

Thanks.

Whatever the reason, I think it is poor that they haven't done any auto-lending for me today, and that it happens to others too. They do mention a limit on the proportion of a loan that will be auto-lent. But I have my doubts that it is the case in this situation as the loan was about 50% filled, and is still not filled.

I'm only trying to use auto-lend because I see so few loans to manually invest in.

There was a loan tonight that did same. It showed in my filtered loans as a autolend type that met my criteria yet wasn't automatically invested by there system.
Maybe try email/ contact us them the question "Kiwi_on_oe" will be keen to hear what answer was?

[whitt]

There was a loan tonight that did same. It showed in my filtered loans as a autolend type that met my criteria yet wasn't automatically invested by there system.
Maybe try email/ contact us them the question "Kiwi_on_oe" will be keen to hear what answer was?
OK
Maybe Kiwi_on_OE is right. The system missed yet another autolend that met my setup again today. That is several this weekend it has missed. On closer inspection it hasnt auto invested in any for 3 days now.

It might be broken completely.

[Dan@Harmoney]

Hi, if Auto-lend does not place an order in a loan that meets your filter criteria it will be because the Auto-lend has met its maximum allocation for that loan and the priority of your order was below the cut-off. There is more detail on how Auto-lend prioritisation works here: https://www.harmoney.co.nz/how-it-works/auto-lend



OK
Maybe Kiwi_on_OE is right. The system missed yet another autolend that met my setup again today. That is several this weekend it has missed. On closer inspection it hasnt auto invested in any for 3 days now.

It might be broken completely.

[Investor]

As Dan said they don't always give 100% funding priority to autolend loans

[kiwi_on_OE]

Hi, if Auto-lend does not place an order in a loan that meets your filter criteria it will be because the Auto-lend has met its maximum allocation for that loan and the priority of your order was below the cut-off. There is more detail on how Auto-lend prioritisation works here: https://www.harmoney.co.nz/how-it-works/auto-lend

C'mon Dan, give us a bit more info. That link only says "the percentage of each loan that can be fulfilled with auto-lend can be set to less than 100%. Harmoney will set it based on the demand for Auto-Lend vs manual lending.", but it gives us no clue as to what you're really doing, and it only says the auto-lend "can" be set to less than 100%, not that it will be.

Can you add income type to the filter criteria? One of my auto-lend loans went to a person that I would prefer not to lend to, but I have no choice about excluding them because of their income type.

All-in-all, seems like my best option is to turn auto-lend off, and build up a surplus of cash that I'll have to take elsewhere because I can't manually invest it fast enough.

[nztyke]

C'mon Dan, give us a bit more info. That link only says "the percentage of each loan that can be fulfilled with auto-lend can be set to less than 100%. Harmoney will set it based on the demand for Auto-Lend vs manual lending.", but it gives us no clue as to what you're really doing, and it only says the auto-lend "can" be set to less than 100%, not that it will be.

Can you add income type to the filter criteria? One of my auto-lend loans went to a person that I would prefer not to lend to, but I have no choice about excluding them because of their income type.

All-in-all, seems like my best option is to turn auto-lend off, and build up a surplus of cash that I'll have to take elsewhere because I can't manually invest it fast enough.

From website
How is Auto-Lend prioritised?Loans go through the Auto-Lend engine before they hit the Marketplace. This means that users of Auto-Lend do get priority over manual lending in the Marketplace. However, the percentage of each loan that can be fulfilled with auto-lend can be set to less than 100%. Harmoney will set it based on the demand for Auto-Lend vs manual lending.
The Auto-lend engine prioritises which Lender it orders notes for first using a prioritisation ratio of 'Funds available' to 'principal outstanding +1'. The Lenders with the highest ratio will get the first orders of notes. For example:


Lender A has $50 Funds available and $1,000 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 5% (50 / 1001)
Lender B had $300 Funds available and $8,000 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 3.75% (300 / 8001)
Lender C has $8,300 Funds available and $187,800 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 4.41% (8,300 / 187,801)

In this scenario, Auto-Lend would prioritise Lender A first, then Lender C, then Lender B.

[nztyke]

So in the above example,if I have read it right, in my situation where I have about $200 Funds Available and $90,000 Principal Outstanding Autolend is useless as I am not going to allow the Funds Available to build up to the level apparently needed. This seems arse about face to me; the lenders with the larger balances are the ones who need Autolend the most. its too labour intensive otherwise, I have to check the site several times a day to keep my funds invested. I will have to adopt the same solution as kiwi_on OE

[kiwi_on_OE]

So in the above example,if I have read it right, in my situation where I have about $200 Funds Available and $90,000 Principal Outstanding Autolend is useless as I am not going to allow the Funds Available to build up to the level apparently needed. This seems arse about face to me; the lenders with the larger balances are the ones who need Autolend the most. its too labour intensive otherwise, I have to check the site several times a day to keep my funds invested. I will have to adopt the same solution as kiwi_on OE

That should just be the prioritisation of your money, you should still get invested, even though you may have a low priority. But that's the problem, they have a wishy-washy statement about how much of a loan may or may not be filled with auto-lend, and unless we manually check (defeating the purpose of auto-lend), we won't know if we have been invested in anything at all.

[whitt]

I totally agree with all The comments on autolend recently.
I have had to manually invest this week to use my account funds.
Has Harmoney tweaked the settings too far ? The priority system seems unfair to big investors. It seems mainly aimed at small mum and dad style investors.
Can big investors have special access like heartland bank etc.

[Pipi]

Does anyone one here have more than one Harmoney account. (thought someone mentioned it) If so, how did you go about this.

[alistar_mid]

OK
Maybe Kiwi_on_OE is right. The system missed yet another autolend that met my setup again today. That is several this weekend it has missed. On closer inspection it hasnt auto invested in any for 3 days now.

It might be broken completely.

If your portfolio is 200 loans or more (so your'e diversified) and you have set your auto lend stuff up etc, Harmoney really becomes more of a passive investment than an active one where you are in there every day trying to loan select, I have found.

The system works, I have noticed it may have missed some for me, but I can come back after a few days, go to reports, choose auto lend loans, and see that it has done a bunch. It doesnt get all of them, but it does a pretty good job of investing my funds.

Took maybe 3 weeks to put an extra $30k into the market, so that i hit my 10 / 25 / 22.5 / 20 / 17.5 / 5 % portfolio mix.

[alistar_mid]

So in the above example,if I have read it right, in my situation where I have about $200 Funds Available and $90,000 Principal Outstanding Autolend is useless as I am not going to allow the Funds Available to build up to the level apparently needed. This seems arse about face to me; the lenders with the larger balances are the ones who need Autolend the most. its too labour intensive otherwise, I have to check the site several times a day to keep my funds invested. I will have to adopt the same solution as kiwi_on OE

what you can't log in and allocate $200 to 2 loans? - assuming if you have $90k invested you are doing 4 notes per loan

Like i say, just let it run its course, it does work. On the one hand you say you want to use auto lend to invest you moneys cause the micro management is annoying, but then you say you check it enough to see that auto lend doesn't always immediately work (it does work, just be patient).

[nztyke]

what you can't log in and allocate $200 to 2 loans? - assuming if you have $90k invested you are doing 4 notes per loan

Like i say, just let it run its course, it does work. On the one hand you say you want to use auto lend to invest you moneys cause the micro management is annoying, but then you say you check it enough to see that auto lend doesn't always immediately work (it does work, just be patient).

You could be right. I usually invest in 12 units in A, 8 in B and 4 in C. Also I prefer 36 month loans of which there seem to be a lot less nowadays. It will probably work better if I change my criterion to 60 months. I will change the filter and see what happens.

[alistar_mid]

You could be right. I usually invest in 12 units in A, 8 in B and 4 in C. Also I prefer 36 month loans of which there seem to be a lot less nowadays. It will probably work better if I change my criterion to 60 months. I will change the filter and see what happens.

hmm i might be wrong, now that I have my 30k in, my auto lend criteria to re-invest is only for 36 month loans, will just have to wait and see. If the cash starts to accumulate then maybe I have to change it back to 60 month loans

[Darchie]

I've haven't altered my autolend feature, yet absolutely nothing has gone into auto lend since 14th, whereas prior to 14th quite a bit was being selected each day!

[Soolaimon]

I've haven't altered my autolend feature, yet absolutely nothing has gone into auto lend since 14th, whereas prior to 14th quite a bit was being selected each day!

The same for me Darchie, nothing since the 14th. A month or so ago it was working well and my available balance was around $150 or so but now it is $1500. I have been re-investing myself and have noticed a few loans that suit my filters but no action from auto-lend. They will have to fix this problem for me to be interested in staying with them.

[Investor]

Post your filters?

[whitt]

Ok so this autolend not picking up loans issue is happening with several people.

Common part is it seems to have only begun in last week .

Harmoney has replied with two reasons. 1 They can set priority depending on how much available funds in your account or outstanding balance
2 Plus they can tweak the percentage of auto loans they allow on each

As this was working perfect in the weeks leading up I would assume harmoney has now changed the percentages on the criteria mentioned.

Now investors who had begun to use autolend are beginning to once again go manual. The autolend filter shows loans it's just Harmoneys two rules that prevent things.

[nztyke]

Ok so this autolend not picking up loans issue is happening with several people.

Common part is it seems to have only begun in last week .

Harmoney has replied with two reasons. 1 They can set priority depending on how much available funds in your account or outstanding balance
2 Plus they can tweak the percentage of auto loans they allow on each

As this was working perfect in the weeks leading up I would assume harmoney has now changed the percentages on the criteria mentioned.

Now investors who had begun to use autolend are beginning to once again go manual. The autolend filter shows loans it's just Harmoneys two rules that prevent things.

I currently have $1103 Funds Available and $93k in principal outstanding. There are 5 loans listed as we speak that meet my criteria. How much more in funding do i need for Autolend to kick in?

[Investor]

I currently have $1103 Funds Available and $93k in principal outstanding. There are 5 loans listed as we speak that meet my criteria. How much more in funding do i need for Autolend to kick in?

How long is a piece of string? For argument's sake, say loans had been set to be funded 80% by Auto-Lend today and that 80% could be met by people with a higher available cash vs outstanding principal ratio than yourself then you won't get to invest in any loans. It's impossible for anyone to tell you what ratio you should have. It's worth noting that some loans listed by Harmoney bypass Auto-Lend entirely as you are probably aware.


It's a simple case of limited supply. Multiple people on this site are getting quite upset with Harmoney over this. If they had more loans to offer you, common sense suggest they would give them to you. If the amount of available cash you have is consistently too high for your liking, consider your other options for the meantime.


You could consider including 60month & payment protect loans in your filter if you have not already (at your own discretion) and also review your criteria to see if you can loosen things up a bit to increase your investments. Otherwise it is a waiting game.

[alistar_mid]

How long is a piece of string? For argument's sake, say loans had been set to be funded 80% by Auto-Lend today and that 80% could be met by people with a higher available cash vs outstanding principal ratio than yourself then you won't get to invest in any loans. It's impossible for anyone to tell you what ratio you should have. It's worth noting that some loans listed by Harmoney bypass Auto-Lend entirely as you are probably aware.


It's a simple case of limited supply. Multiple people on this site are getting quite upset with Harmoney over this. If they had more loans to offer you, common sense suggest they would give them to you. If the amount of available cash you have is consistently too high for your liking, consider your other options for the meantime.


You could consider including 60month & payment protect loans in your filter if you have not already (at your own discretion) and also review your criteria to see if you can loosen things up a bit to increase your investments. Otherwise it is a waiting game.

could just be 36 month loans are in really high demand...
and that if your auto lend "ratios" are not right you miss them
unless you do it manually... but then you have to check a lot as it seems they go really fast

[Investor]

could just be 36 month loans are in really high demand...
and that if your auto lend "ratios" are not right you miss them
unless you do it manually... but then you have to check a lot as it seems they go really fast

Yeah I also check Harmoney manually several times a day and rarely get a loan. Sadly I can't go into 60 month loans myself due to my current investment requirements.

[nztyke]

How long is a piece of string? For argument's sake, say loans had been set to be funded 80% by Auto-Lend today and that 80% could be met by people with a higher available cash vs outstanding principal ratio than yourself then you won't get to invest in any loans. It's impossible for anyone to tell you what ratio you should have. It's worth noting that some loans listed by Harmoney bypass Auto-Lend entirely as you are probably aware.


It's a simple case of limited supply. Multiple people on this site are getting quite upset with Harmoney over this. If they had more loans to offer you, common sense suggest they would give them to you. If the amount of available cash you have is consistently too high for your liking, consider your other options for the meantime.


You could consider including 60month & payment protect loans in your filter if you have not already (at your own discretion) and also review your criteria to see if you can loosen things up a bit to increase your investments. Otherwise it is a waiting game.

It was a rhetorical question Just to see what happens I changed my filters to include basically all A B and C loans for both 36 and 60 months. I will give it another couple of days.

[whitt]

It was a rhetorical question Just to see what happens I changed my filters to include basically all A B and C loans for both 36 and 60 months. I will give it another couple of days.
At this rate it might be time to have more funds in LC I think. they have been getting quite a few good ones lately. .

[RMJH]

I currently have $1103 Funds Available and $93k in principal outstanding. There are 5 loans listed as we speak that meet my criteria. How much more in funding do i need for Autolend to kick in?
I think someone here had an app that notified new listings. Could be this is what is sucking out loans so quickly rather than autolend? Though of course doesn't explain why so many loans seem to skip autolend altogether. I guess Harmoney can't please everyone all the time and new lenders need a fair go. It was great for a while when autolend kept cash low but now have reverted to checking.

[whitt]

I think someone here had an app that notified new listings. Could be this is what is sucking out loans so quickly rather than autolend? Though of course doesn't explain why so many loans seem to skip autolend altogether. I guess Harmoney can't please everyone all the time and new lenders need a fair go. It was great for a while when autolend kept cash low but now have reverted to checking.
I think autolend lately seems to be a waste of time. Everytime I check there are loans that match my autolend filter yet havent been picked up.

At this rate my funds available will grow unless I go manual which defeats entire purpose.

[whitt]

I think autolend lately seems to be a waste of time. Everytime I check there are loans that match my autolend filter yet havent been picked up.

At this rate my funds available will grow unless I go manual which defeats entire purpose.

I have thought of a fix for Harmoney and autolend issue.

Bearing in mind the 2 rules I assume they set on each loan (% of loan allowed to autolend and prioritization)

Harmoney could have the the % on those rules change versus time.

The reason I say that is some loans that meet my Autolend sit for hours not picked up by public also.

Why not after a set period of time if they dont get picked up by public let the autolend buyers have a go at getting them.
Harmoney computer system could loosen the % rules every hour and that way public get a fair shot at them and autolend buyers can
pick them up too

Hope that makes sense.

[kiwi_on_OE]

Has anyone been observing the % filled on the loans that match their auto-lend filter. One I noticed several days ago was at ~60% filled when I observed the %, but that was at least a couple of hours after I first noticed the loan, so presumably it kicked out of the auto-lend process at 50% or less.

Harmoney hide behind referring to their website where they only say that loans can have an auto-lend limit, not that they do, so perhaps we have to try to work it out for ourselves, of course it might be different for different categories, loan amounts etc.

[s4draynz]

Yeah I also check Harmoney manually several times a day and rarely get a loan. Sadly I can't go into 60 month loans myself due to my current investment requirements.

I use this : https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/check4change/
i highlight the number of loans available and set to check every 5 minutes. Then whem it changes it plays a sound so you know t hat there are new loans available.

[johna]

Has anyone been observing the % filled on the loans that match their auto-lend filter. One I noticed several days ago was at ~60% filled when I observed the %, but that was at least a couple of hours after I first noticed the loan, so presumably it kicked out of the auto-lend process at 50% or less.

Harmoney hide behind referring to their website where they only say that loans can have an auto-lend limit, not that they do, so perhaps we have to try to work it out for ourselves, of course it might be different for different categories, loan amounts etc.

Just saw a qualifying loan available only 16% filled - that almost starts to look like a bug!

[jmacka]

Hi all,
Long time reader, first time poster.
I too have not had an auto loan for about 10 days even though there is an A3 loan which suits my criteria, available right now.

[Investor]

I've had loans go in via auto lend on dec 20. 19, 18, 17, 16 , 15 and so on. They are just less abundant. Also have seen more loans skipping Auto-Lend as everyone else has.

[whitt]

I've had loans go in via auto lend on dec 20. 19, 18, 17, 16 , 15 and so on. They are just less abundant. Also have seen more loans skipping Auto-Lend as everyone else has.
my last one was Dec 15th

[Investor]

I've noticed quite a few more loans since adding payment protect to my lending criteria. I didn't want to invest in them but it's a good way to include more loans.

[BJ1]

While it is frustrating to have funds uninvested for days and to need to alter one's criteria to deal with that issue, perhaps we should ascertain whether Harmoney is altering the criteria for each loan in a way which results in the corporate lenders effectively cherry picking larger slices of the better loans. If the allocation to autolend can be altered for each loan then Harmoney can target better loans for greater autolend participation and thus remove them from the marketplace much more quickly. Perhaps that it why so few 36 month low risk grade loans have appeared this week?

[permutation]

I just had to come out of hibernation after reading all the autolend problems "rubbish".
Started autolending on 9 October, have got 18 criteria elements in my Autolend filter. To date have had 125 loans by "AL" and invested another 80 manually when I check in once or twice a day that are in my autolend filter but not allocated.
I am very happy with the process, have had more loans than ever before trying to sort them manually.
I figure if I get an average 3 "AL" loans per day, after 12 months that would be 1100 loans worth $27,500 with a $25 unit.

[Investor]

I just had to come out of hibernation after reading all the autolend problems "rubbish".
Started autolending on 9 October, have got 18 criteria elements in my Autolend filter. To date have had 125 loans by "AL" and invested another 80 manually when I check in once or twice a day that are in my autolend filter but not allocated.
I am very happy with the process, have had more loans than ever before trying to sort them manually.
I figure if I get an average 3 "AL" loans per day, after 12 months that would be 1100 loans worth $27,500 with a $25 unit.

Are you investing in 36 & 60 month loans?

[permutation]

Are you investing in 36 & 60 month loans?

Yes, I also have specific grade range, payment protect, five main variants of purpose that Harmoney tables show, specific $ range, residential and employment length, rewrites, interest rate range, repayment income ratio range, and age group range. I have selected my criteria on a detailed analysis of my data downloaded onto an excel spreadsheet.

[whitt]

I just had to come out of hibernation after reading all the autolend problems "rubbish".
Started autolending on 9 October, have got 18 criteria elements in my Autolend filter. To date have had 125 loans by "AL" and invested another 80 manually when I check in once or twice a day that are in my autolend filter but not allocated.
I am very happy with the process, have had more loans than ever before trying to sort them manually.
I figure if I get an average 3 "AL" loans per day, after 12 months that would be 1100 loans worth $27,500 with a $25 unit.

Sounds great and thanks for update. Have you found any drop off in Autolend for past week?

Several users like myself have found same as you that system works but the rate has decreased recently. Is this true with yourself also Permutation?

Interesting to note that even yourself has had to manually login to invest in loans that Autolend didnt allocate

[RMJH]

Seems to be more lenders than borrowers right now. I also invest with Zopa and they won't even accept deposits as this time. I wonder if a drop in rates will follow if this continues...

[Pipi]

I haven't had any auto lend loans since 17th December. When previous to 17th Dec I was getting them daily. Now have to log on daily to get my loan fill.

[Fisherking]

Has anyone been observing the % filled on the loans that match their auto-lend filter. One I noticed several days ago was at ~60% filled when I observed the %, but that was at least a couple of hours after I first noticed the loan, so presumably it kicked out of the auto-lend process at 50% or less.

Harmoney hide behind referring to their website where they only say that loans can have an auto-lend limit, not that they do, so perhaps we have to try to work it out for ourselves, of course it might be different for different categories, loan amounts etc.

I think what they are saying is simply that the % auto lend will 'kick out' at varies depending on the number of loans available. They have stated there are not many as we get closer to Xmas. I'd be surprised if it's not all back to business as usual come mid Jan.

[permutation]

Sounds great and thanks for update. Have you found any drop off in Autolend for past week?

Several users like myself have found same as you that system works but the rate has decreased recently. Is this true with yourself also Permutation?

Interesting to note that even yourself has had to manually login to invest in loans that Autolend didnt allocate

Merry Christmas whitt, also to all other passionate investors of Harmoney on this forum.
Yes I have had a decrease of loans available since Dec 22. I tell you whitt, I have just logged in a few minutes ago and selected the Lend screen; Loans filled in the last 24 Hours =0, So the big boys haven't had any loans either. So the Harmoney folks are having a Christmas break as well and they do deserve it.

I would like to make a suggestion to Monica, why not split the loan activity notification in the last 24 hours between the corporate lenders and retail, so we can see how much advantage they have over us.

[Cool Bear]

Merry Christmas whitt, also to all other passionate investors of Harmoney on this forum.
Yes I have had a decrease of loans available since Dec 22. I tell you whitt, I have just logged in a few minutes ago and selected the Lend screen; Loans filled in the last 24 Hours =0, So the big boys haven't had any loans either. So the Harmoney folks are having a Christmas break as well and they do deserve it.

I would like to make a suggestion to Monica, why not split the loan activity notification in the last 24 hours between the corporate lenders and retail, so we can see how much advantage they have over us.
Merry Christmas. How or where do you get this info "loans in the last 24 hours"?

[permutation]

Check it out here.
8555

[BJ1]

I think what they are saying is simply that the % auto lend will 'kick out' at varies depending on the number of loans available. They have stated there are not many as we get closer to Xmas. I'd be surprised if it's not all back to business as usual come mid Jan.
Is it acceptable that Harmoney change the percentage as it suits them and we don't know if they are using that to the benefit of their "preferred" investors? They could direct better class loans to their corporate investors that way.

[Investor]

Is it acceptable that Harmoney change the percentage as it suits them and we don't know if they are using that to the benefit of their "preferred" investors? They could direct better class loans to their corporate investors that way.

Yes it is acceptable. Harmoney have a right to do what they want. You aren't a shareholder in their company so why do you expect them to make every decision based on your financial interests? If you can't invest enough funds either wait or invest elsewhere. We are all having the same problem.

[Cool Bear]

Check it out here.
8555

Thanks Permutation.

Just realised that it is a new feature that is not available to all investors yet. I have two accounts, the first one with just $2000 to test it out before investing later as a company. My company one still do not have it but just found out that my dormant $2000 one already has it.

85568557

Was the same with Autolend. My main account only had it a few weeks later.

[Cool Bear]

Yes it is acceptable. Harmoney have a right to do what they want. You aren't a shareholder in their company so why do you expect them to make every decision based on your financial interests? If you can't invest enough funds either wait or invest elsewhere. We are all having the same problem.

Like a lot of people here, I have very few Autolend loans at the moment. Last one was on 19 December. In the one month I was in, I did have about 140 loans done through autolend. I think the decrease is due to more people signing on to Autolend. So investors with serious amounts are being push to the back of the queue. Your priority is based on the percentage of cash available over your invested balance. If the later is high, your percentage is low and you are at the back of the queue.

[Cool Bear]

Check it out here.
8555

Thanks Permutation.

Just realised that it is a new feature that is not available to all investors yet. I have two accounts, the first one with just $2000 to test it out before investing later as a company. My company one still do not have it but just found out that my dormant $2000 one already has it.

8556

8557

Was the same with Autolend. My main account only had it a few weeks later.

[Investor]

I'm also not even getting one loan a day.

[Darchie]

I've still received no new autolend loans since 14th ... whereas prior to that i was receiving a sturdy amount per week ...
Another way to look at it: Harmoney might like a higher percentage of their autoloans to go into the small accounts, saying it helps to build up the small/newbie accounts ... OR is it just that Harmoney totally prefers to get a mucher higher lending fee from these autolend loans, and it's easily achieved through this autolend feature....... anyone else been thinking along these lines?

[BJ1]

Interesting response from Investor to my query on previous page. I don't recall saying I was having a problem. Just asking if one class of investor should be granted preference over another.

[kiwi_on_OE]

Have others been getting a Weekly Auto-Lend Update report from Harmoney? Got my first one the other day, don't know why I didn't get it previously for my auto-lending. Maybe it's new. Shame they can't count the number of loans accurately, report says one, Marketplace orders says two. Hopefully only a timing issue, as seems to be the case with other parts of the service.

Back to the auto-lending %. I wouldn't mind so much if there was some transparency around what they do. If they said the auto-lend limit was only 10% per loan I could ignore the feature and make plans accordingly. But to leave their misleading advertising in place, which doesn't give an accurate representation of the service, seems typical of the PR/BS that comes from Harmoney.

[johna]

There's a loan matching my autolend criteria in the public area that's only filled to 15%, I think autolend is broken...

[RMJH]

There's a loan matching my autolend criteria in the public area that's only filled to 15%, I think autolend is broken...
Certainly something is happening, possibly just turned off for holiday period when fewer listings. I just invested in 10 loans manually as Autolend didn't pick them up.

[Bjauck]

It seems as though the platform stats update is already a week late. I imagine they may not be updated until after the holiday period.

[jmacka]

I've invested manually in 9 loans today which were within the auto lend criteria.

[Darchie]

A B5 loan # 85122 .... shows this subject as having an after tax income of $29,000 mthly !!!
So often the income levels shown just have to be errors. ..
I'm finding it harder by the day to feel any trust of content with this outfit!!!!

[BJ1]

I have asked about this problem previously and get no satisfactory response from Harmoney. If you use a filter which includes a debt servicing % ratio set at a realistic level this loan would presumably fly in. So, they really need to clean up their platform so it can't happen. Any chance?

[Darchie]

. Any chance?

I think Not!

[johna]

I think the entire team has gone on holiday. Autolend is not working and the RaR hasn't been updated since 20/11. This is getting a bit mickey mouse.

[Bjauck]

I think the entire team has gone on holiday. Autolend is not working and the RaR hasn't been updated since 20/11. This is getting a bit mickey mouse.
I see that Lending Crowd updated investor's return rates on 1st January.

[whitt]

I think the entire team has gone on holiday. Autolend is not working and the RaR hasn't been updated since 20/11. This is getting a bit mickey mouse.
I am not loosening my autolend rules tho to match there system.
I would prefer instead manually logging in to capture loans that meet my autolend rules.

Let's see who gets autolend working first without loosening rules.
My last one was 15 dec

[Darchie]

I am not loosening my autolend rules tho to match there system.
I would prefer instead manually logging in to capture loans that meet my autolend rules.


Let's see who gets autolend working first without loosening rules.
My last one was 15 dec

Well Done! My last was 14th

[BJ1]

Well Done! My last was 14th

There were 22 loans on the marketplace at 1105. They have all gone now except for 85627 which is showing as needing 17 notes to fill but strangely I subscribed for 17 at 1106 so it should have been filled. Then at 1534 I appear to have managed to subscribe for another note, making 18 in total. So, definitely more screwiness in the system.

[Darchie]

There were 22 loans on the marketplace at 1105. They have all gone now except for 85627 which is showing as needing 17 notes to fill but strangely I subscribed for 17 at 1106 so it should have been filled. Then at 1534 I appear to have managed to subscribe for another note, making 18 in total. So, definitely more screwiness in the system.

I find it particularly Interesting you can define this action .... i have a particular loan that I'eve been totally puzzled with; as it IS TOTALLY and utterly outside my boundaries for selecting any loan and there's no way i can see I've selected it .... but have lived with it thinking maybe i had a slip of the stylus!!!!! But you've given me some hope that i can accept that it's been slipped into my stable by an action not of my making!!....

[BJ1]

As of now loan 85627 is still available with 17 notes to fill it and the $450 I subscribed to it is still showing as being held in funding. Darchie, I may have misled you unintentionally - I deliberately subscribed to this loan - 17 notes to complete it and then 1 note to test the system. Not only do I have these transactions outstanding (so don't know if my $450 is actually invested and cannot invest it anywhere else) but also I have loan 62059 which was paid off on 12 December but the balance is still showing as outstanding and I cannot reinvest because it hasn't been released back to my available funds. But don't worry, Will is back on the 9th so we can talk then about this and other matters I emailed about. Don't get me wrong - I am content with Harmoney overall but the lack of professionalism in managing the platform is something I would have put my staff on report for, back in the day.

[Cool Bear]

As of now loan 85627 is still available with 17 notes to fill it and the $450 I subscribed to it is still showing as being held in funding. Darchie, I may have misled you unintentionally - I deliberately subscribed to this loan - 17 notes to complete it and then 1 note to test the system. Not only do I have these transactions outstanding (so don't know if my $450 is actually invested and cannot invest it anywhere else) but also I have loan 62059 which was paid off on 12 December but the balance is still showing as outstanding and I cannot reinvest because it hasn't been released back to my available funds. But don't worry, Will is back on the 9th so we can talk then about this and other matters I emailed about. Don't get me wrong - I am content with Harmoney overall but the lack of professionalism in managing the platform is something I would have put my staff on report for, back in the day.
Your 85627 is still showing now as 17 notes remaining. I put in 4 notes this morning too. Like you I am pretty happy overall with Harmoney and have heaps invested in them but also troubled with all these discrepancies.

[BJ1]

As of now loan 85627 has gone from the list of available loans, the $25 note I subscribed for to test the system has been wiped and the 17 notes I originally subscribed for are shown as being in funding. Presumably, Cool Bear, your 4 notes have been wiped out?

[Saamee]

OK a rhetorical question....

Why is it I have had SO many write offs here at Harmoney in 18 months.

And NONE at both Lending Crowd and Squirrel in 12 months??

...................... :(

Yes I have taken my business away from this platform already....

[Art]

OK a rhetorical question....

Why is it I have had SO many write offs here at Harmoney in 18 months.

And NONE at both Lending Crowd and Squirrel in 12 months??

...................... :(

Yes I have taken my business away from this platform already....

I have not found this to be the case. My write offs have been well within budget so far, the budget having been calculated using the predicted default rates for each grade provided on the Harmoney website.

[CR111]

OK a rhetorical question....

Why is it I have had SO many write offs here at Harmoney in 18 months.

And NONE at both Lending Crowd and Squirrel in 12 months??

...................... :(

Yes I have taken my business away from this platform already....

I'm not at all concerned with the number of defaults. The only relevant figure is the RAR. As long as the overall return is where I want it to be, I'll be happy. My rate of return from Harmoney is higher than from any of my other P2P providers. Though I must admit there is a certain "feel good feeling" when I look at my Lending Crowd account, and see no defaults(so far).

[nztyke]

OK a rhetorical question....

Why is it I have had SO many write offs here at Harmoney in 18 months.

And NONE at both Lending Crowd and Squirrel in 12 months??



...................... :(

Yes I have taken my business away from this platform already....

As it was a rhetorical question you know the answer already; Harmoney as a much greater risk/reward ratio than the others. if you are going to lend money unsecured at usurious rates to people (D,E,F) who have to resort to this kind of funding there are going to be significant write offs. I agree with Art and CR111, it's the big picture you have to bear in mind: it's a numbers game.

For the record my write offs are

A 0 out of 266
B 0 out of 329
C 0 out of 245
D 2 out of 126
E 8 out of 87
F 2 out of 26

My annualised returns over a two year period are A 9.7%, B 12.2%, C 16.0% D 17.0%, E 13.7%, F 20.5%, Overall 12.2% This is quite a lot better than LC and I am not in Squirrel

[alistar_mid]

As it was a rhetorical question you know the answer already; Harmoney as a much greater risk/reward ratio than the others. if you are going to lend money unsecured at usurious rates to people (D,E,F) who have to resort to this kind of funding there are going to be significant write offs. I agree with Art and CR111, it's the big picture you have to bear in mind: it's a numbers game.

For the record my write offs are

A 0 out of 266
B 0 out of 329
C 0 out of 245
D 2 out of 126
E 8 out of 87
F 2 out of 26

My annualised returns over a two year period are A 9.7%, B 12.2%, C 16.0% D 17.0%, E 13.7%, F 20.5%, Overall 12.2% This is quite a lot better than LC and I am not in Squirrel

this is similar to people that complain about the fees on managed funds (actually simplicities whole gimmick lol) when what matters is the net return.

[Cool Bear]

As of now loan 85627 has gone from the list of available loans, the $25 note I subscribed for to test the system has been wiped and the 17 notes I originally subscribed for are shown as being in funding. Presumably, Cool Bear, your 4 notes have been wiped out?
Nope,Igotthe4notes

[Saamee]

this is similar to people that complain about the fees on managed funds (actually simplicities whole gimmick lol) when what matters is the net return.

Hey Guys, Thanks for the alternative way of thinking and looking at this....

I would still rather have Zero losses though!! :)

[BJ1]

Nope,Igotthe4notes

That makes for an interesting question for Harmoney - how come after I took up all that was left did they manage to find another $100 for you (but cancel my additional $25)? Perhaps there is a manual override to take from the big boys and give to us littlies? Another question for Will when he rings me on Monday.

[epower]

Noticed with Squirrel, if they go broke, then ANZ would take over the loan book until the loans are wound up.

Is this similar with Harmoney? i.e. If they go broke (as I heard they are making net losses) is there any guarantee the loans will continue on?

[Investor]

Hey Guys, Thanks for the alternative way of thinking and looking at this....

I would still rather have Zero losses though!! :)

If you would rather zero losses then a financial advisor would tell you you're taking on far more risk than you have an apetite for.

[Investor]

Hey Guys, Thanks for the alternative way of thinking and looking at this....

I would still rather have Zero losses though!! :)


Noticed with Squirrel, if they go broke, then ANZ would take over the loan book until the loans are wound up.

Is this similar with Harmoney? i.e. If they go broke (as I heard they are making net losses) is there any guarantee the loans will continue on?

Yes they do have a process for this. It is all clearly outlined somewhere on their website. Definitely in the lender agreement and possibly FAQs too.

[Robuste]

Yes see page 9 of the disclosure statement
https://www.harmoney.co.nz/assets/Legal-Documents-NZ/Harmoney-Disclosure-Statement-as-amended-Sept-2016-28079342-v-6.pdf

[johna]

They're back to work! RaRs have been updated.

[alistar_mid]

Hey Guys, Thanks for the alternative way of thinking and looking at this....

I would still rather have Zero losses though!! :)


Xero is down about 50% for me... No thanks!

[whitt]

The post Xmas defaults are now coming thru. My arrears have jumped by 20% almost instantly this week. Hopefully this is normal for time or of year and settled back down.

Also I note the autolend issue with the changed criteria from weeks ago still exists. The last autolend loan I had filled was still back in mid Dec so I have been doing them manually now since I refuse to change my autolend rules .

[Cool Bear]

Just a note to those who are not aware.

Harmoney takes its cut of the payment protect fees up front. Should the borrower repays the loan early, they are entitled to a refund of their fees. That refund (including Harmoney's portion) comes from us investors. So you probably are out of pocket with early repayments.

Time will tell if it still works out okay for us investors in the long run. It all depends on how many payments are waived and how much is the percentage of early repayments.

[Robuste]

eeekk i dont think i will be doing any more PP loans then

I presume that PP loans can be increased by paying off and redrawing a larger amount?

If so is the PP fee renegotiated?

[Fisherking]

As it was a rhetorical question you know the answer already; Harmoney as a much greater risk/reward ratio than the others. if you are going to lend money unsecured at usurious rates to people (D,E,F) who have to resort to this kind of funding there are going to be significant write offs. I agree with Art and CR111, it's the big picture you have to bear in mind: it's a numbers game.

For the record my write offs are

A 0 out of 266
B 0 out of 329
C 0 out of 245
D 2 out of 126
E 8 out of 87
F 2 out of 26

My annualised returns over a two year period are A 9.7%, B 12.2%, C 16.0% D 17.0%, E 13.7%, F 20.5%, Overall 12.2% This is quite a lot better than LC and I am not in Squirrel

Excellent post. risk v total return.

[Finite]

For the record my write offs are

A 0 out of 266
B 0 out of 329
C 0 out of 245
D 2 out of 126
E 8 out of 87
F 2 out of 26

My annualised returns over a two year period are A 9.7%, B 12.2%, C 16.0% D 17.0%, E 13.7%, F 20.5%, Overall 12.2% This is quite a lot better than LC and I am not in Squirrel

Are you taking into account TAX?

You state E is 13.7% anualised return for you.
But you are in fact paying Income Tax on the 30 -38% interest you receive for E grade loans.
The IRD is screwing us retail investors!

[nztyke]

Are you taking into account TAX?

You state E is 13.7% anualised return for you.
But you are in fact paying Income Tax on the 30 -38% interest you receive for E grade loans.
The IRD is screwing us retail investors!

The returns quoted are before tax. Tax is paid on all forms of interest income so its impact is neutral except of course the question of deductibility of service charges and write offs.

[permutation]

Just a note to those who are not aware.

Harmoney takes its cut of the payment protect fees up front. Should the borrower repays the loan early, they are entitled to a refund of their fees. That refund (including Harmoney's portion) comes from us investors. So you probably are out of pocket with early repayments.

Time will tell if it still works out okay for us investors in the long run. It all depends on how many payments are waived and how much is the percentage of early repayments.

As I understand it; Payment protect is paid by the borrower and becomes additional to the lender's principal outstanding e.g. $25 note becomes say $26.23

From the dashboard, subtracting ones "Loan investments funded" from the "Borrower Principal amount", shows the Total P/P added.

If for example one had $100 p/p outstanding and all the loans went full term and repaid then there would be an additional $100 in ones cash balance.
Along the way early repayments will cause an adjustment to both lender and borrower rebates.

I currently have about $90 in P/P capital and to date with some early repayments, have $1.50 lender rebate and about -$8.50 borrower rebates with no principal waivers yet.
So my outstanding P/P balance is about $83. Now hypothetically if all the p/p the loans went full term with no waivers or early repayments, I would make $83 extra profit??!!

On my spreadsheet I also counter the p/p $ capital against my write-off $ value. So in time I would like to consider that the p/p value will cancel out the written off amount.:)

[Cool Bear]

As I understand it; Payment protect is paid by the borrower and becomes additional to the lender's principal outstanding e.g. $25 note becomes say $26.23

From the dashboard, subtracting ones "Loan investments funded" from the "Borrower Principal amount", shows the Total P/P added.

If for example one had $100 p/p outstanding and all the loans went full term and repaid then there would be an additional $100 in ones cash balance.
Along the way early repayments will cause an adjustment to both lender and borrower rebates.

I currently have about $90 in P/P capital and to date with some early repayments, have $1.50 lender rebate and about -$8.50 borrower rebates with no principal waivers yet.
So my outstanding P/P balance is about $83. Now hypothetically if all the p/p the loans went full term with no waivers or early repayments, I would make $83 extra profit??!!

On my spreadsheet I also counter the p/p $ capital against my write-off $ value. So in time I would like to consider that the p/p value will cancel out the written off amount.:)
You made $1.50 from the loans that were repaid early. But you have to pay the borrower $8.50 meaning you are out of pocket by $7. That is the point I was making in my earlier post.. If those loans had gone to maturity, your $1.50 will be much more and the borrower's $8.50 will be $0. So, for early repayment we lose out.

There is a writeup somewhere in harmoney site but I cannot find it. Harmoney takes 15% and 20% up front for commission and fees. For early repayment, they do not refund the two. But for rewrites, they refund one and not the other. However, the borrower gets the unused portion of the PP back for both early repayments and rewrites. Meaning that the difference comes from us.

I am not saying that we will definitely lose out. It just depends on how much PP loans were repaid early or rewritten and of course how much waivers there are.

Btw, my figures are: I earned $9+ for lenders rebate for the early repayments/rewrites and I paid out $95+ to the borrowers for those loans. No waivers so far too. In the perfect world of no more early repayments/rewrites and no waivers for the remaining PP loans, I will eventually be about $1800 better off in 5 years. I do hope that it will be at least half of that. But we will only know in 5 years time.

Of course, we also get a little more in interest as the loan o/s is higher than what we loan out.

[permutation]

You made $1.50 from the loans that were repaid early. But you have to pay the borrower $8.50 meaning you are out of pocket by $7. That is the point I was making in my earlier post.. If those loans had gone to maturity, your $1.50 will be much more and the borrower's $8.50 will be $0. So, for early repayment we lose out.

I don't think I'm out of pocket, the -$8.50 comes from the total outstanding p/p's which are added onto the principal from the borrowers.

[Cool Bear]

Finally got my first autolend loan today. Last one was 19 Dec. Not sure if it is because I loosen my filters yesterday to include almost all loans. The single Autolend loan I got, I would have got under the old filter anyway.

[Cool Bear]

I don't think I'm out of pocket, the -$8.50 comes from the total outstanding p/p's which are added onto the principal from the borrowers.

Have you looked at the o/s principal of those loans??

[permutation]

Have you looked at the o/s principal of those loans??

My p/p loans repaid were only 1 -3 months in duration and I received slightly (p+I) more than my original investment, including my lender rebate.

Now, I have just sorted my active loans online from highest principal outstanding and with over 60 p/p loans the balances are all over $25 plus I have received payments of p+I, so the result is "well in the money".

Everyday that goes by with my active loans, more and more of the payment protect amount drifts from the borrower to the lender.

[Cool Bear]

Have a look at the o/s principal of those paid off PP loans!

[permutation]

Have a look at the o/s principal of those paid off PP loans!

I have more than broken even from the paid off p/p loans!!

We have to look at the big picture; the reality is that anyone not investing in "payment protect " loans will ever get any benefit from them.

The bottom line is the total net profit after fees and tax, which for me is fantastic; better than any other form of investment except property of course.

Off to the beach!

[Cool Bear]

I have more than broken even from the paid off p/p loans!!

We have to look at the big picture; the reality is that anyone not investing in "payment protect " loans will ever get any benefit from them.

The bottom line is the total net profit after fees and tax, which for me is fantastic; better than any other form of investment except property of course.

Off to the beach!

If you read all my previous posts, I have always said that overall I am happy with Harmoney. I am just pointing out one fact that many investors may have missed. Even in these past few posts I mentioned that I will most likely be in the black in the long run with PP loans. The more we know the better investors we are. Enough said.

[Bjauck]

The returns quoted are before tax. Tax is paid on all forms of interest income so its impact is neutral except of course the question of deductibility of service charges and write offs. A non-business retail investor pays RWT on gross interest whether it is from Term deposits with a Big Aussie Bank or from loan notes with Harmoney. Leaving aside service charges, the difference is that you will more than likely not suffer any capital loss in your amount invested with the Big Aussie. With Harmoney if you invest as they advise in a fractionalised portfolio of notes with many borrowers, then you will more than likely suffer an annual capital loss with some of your notes. This capital loss would be expected to be higher for those investors with more invested in the lower grades. As a consequence, your actual tax rate on your total net return (taking into account the loss of capital) from your initial capital invested with Harmoney will be higher than the tax rate on your bank term deposits interest payments. I don't think that for such investors, the actual impact of RWT is neutral. DYOR.

[Robuste]

Does anyone have stats on write offs for original loans as compared with rewrites?

[Finite]

Does anyone have stats on write offs for original loans as compared with rewrites?
No stats - but I imagine the rate of defaults for rewrite people will be larger.
You know, if I just had a little more then all my problems would go away.
Applying for a rewrite is the last desperate attempt to stave off the inevitable.

[Robuste]

Yes my thinking too. I have turned rewrite off on my auto lend filter and rarely manually purchase rewrite loan notes.
I think i will only consider these if the new amount is a minor increase say 10% although one can only guess whether that is the case
as one doesn't see the amount of the original loan, only the paid off amount. However this will be pretty much the same after
only 3 repayments as is often the case.

[permutation]

Does anyone have stats on write offs for original loans as compared with rewrites?

I have checked my write offs(12 Total) and only have 1 that was a rewrite. Lending for 22 months with over 850 loans, have lent for many rewrites so I don't think I will switch that filter off just yet.

[Robuste]

I have checked my write offs(12 Total) and only have 1 that was a rewrite. Lending for 22 months with over 850 loans, have lent for many rewrites so I don't think I will switch that filter off just yet.

Ok thanks thats much better than i would have thought:)

[whitt]

Finally got my first autolend loan today. Last one was 19 Dec. Not sure if it is because I loosen my filters yesterday to include almost all loans. The single Autolend loan I got, I would have got under the old filter anyway.
Congrats you have broken the autolend drought.
I am yet to capture one but I refuse to loosen my rules, last autolend i got was 15 Dec.

[alistar_mid]

had 6 paid off early in December from 545 loans.
Increased to 18 in January. weird.

[nztyke]

Finally got my first autolend loan today. Last one was 19 Dec. Not sure if it is because I loosen my filters yesterday to include almost all loans. The single Autolend loan I got, I would have got under the old filter anyway.

What was your Funds Available to Principal Outstanding ratio as per Harmoney's priority criteria? It might give us some idea of where we need to be.

The Auto-lend engine prioritises which Lender it orders notes for first using a prioritisation ratio of 'Funds available' to 'principal outstanding +1'. The Lenders with the highest ratio will get the first orders of notes. For example:


Lender A has $50 Funds available and $1,000 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 5% (50 / 1001)
Lender B had $300 Funds available and $8,000 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 3.75% (300 / 8001)
Lender C has $8,300 Funds available and $187,800 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 4.41% (8,300 / 187,801)

In this scenario, Auto-Lend would prioritise Lender A first, then Lender C, then Lender B.

[BJ1]

had 6 paid off early in December from 545 loans.
Increased to 18 in January. weird.
I had 13 of 128 repaid in December and so far only one this month. High early repayments in these two months should be expected - but I'd expect your experience, not mine, given that people need to pay for their silly season spending, usually afterwards.

[Fisherking]

What was your Funds Available to Principal Outstanding ratio as per Harmoney's priority criteria? It might give us some idea of where we need to be.

The Auto-lend engine prioritises which Lender it orders notes for first using a prioritisation ratio of 'Funds available' to 'principal outstanding +1'. The Lenders with the highest ratio will get the first orders of notes. For example:


Lender A has $50 Funds available and $1,000 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 5% (50 / 1001)
Lender B had $300 Funds available and $8,000 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 3.75% (300 / 8001)
Lender C has $8,300 Funds available and $187,800 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 4.41% (8,300 / 187,801)

In this scenario, Auto-Lend would prioritise Lender A first, then Lender C, then Lender B.
.
For the loans i've been buying with autolend recently i'm ok to about 4%, anything higher than this is pretty slow to fill

[Cool Bear]

What was your Funds Available to Principal Outstanding ratio as per Harmoney's priority criteria? It might give us some idea of where we need to be.

The Auto-lend engine prioritises which Lender it orders notes for first using a prioritisation ratio of 'Funds available' to 'principal outstanding +1'. The Lenders with the highest ratio will get the first orders of notes. For example:


Lender A has $50 Funds available and $1,000 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 5% (50 / 1001)
Lender B had $300 Funds available and $8,000 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 3.75% (300 / 8001)
Lender C has $8,300 Funds available and $187,800 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 4.41% (8,300 / 187,801)

In this scenario, Auto-Lend would prioritise Lender A first, then Lender C, then Lender B.

My ratio (cash/total investment) seldom goes above 1% which is why I don't expect much from Autolend if Harmoney continue with this rule. I understand Harmoney wanting to be fair to smaller investors but they are missing the point of the exercise.

Someone with $10000 invested and $500 cash will probably want to do it manually and they will have time to do it as the cash repayments do not accumulate that fast. For an investor with say $80,000, to be in the same 5% ratio, you will need to leave $4000 in Cash to get the same priority. And as you probably have to sign in every half an hour in order to be able to do it manually as the loans dissappear too quickly, you are the one that really needs Autolend.

[Halebop]

...For an investor with say $80,000, to be in the same 5% ratio, you will need to leave $4000 in Cash to get the same priority. And as you probably have to sign in every half an hour in order to be able to do it manually as the loans disappear too quickly, you are the one that really needs Autolend.

Agree!

My reading is that Harmoney is focused on wanting wider distribution of active investors via fixing the experience of new or uncommitted investors rather than more broadly fixing a key customer pain point; a pain in the a$$ amount of activity required to maintain an existing balance and an uninspiring customer experience.

I wonder if I'm an outlier and how do other people behave? I put in an extra $500 or $1,000 every time my cash balance runs down to near zero. At the moment this tends to be around $1,000 to $2,000 per month, last year was over $40k, total capital invested around $75,000 to date. However the approach of sweating capital by maintaining low cash balances doesn't fit well to trigger rules for Autolend.

Harmoney appear to be saying my incremental $20k to $40K per annum plus compounding balances are not worth the effort of a positive customer experience?

[whitt]

Like others here I can't see why they would restrict people with large portfolios from using autolend. They are forcing only small investors to use Harmoney with that philosophy.

Anyway as a game I will let my available funds to invest increase to change % and see where autolend begins to trigger again.

I have been at 2.4% this week with now luck so small incremental changes might give me an idea.

[Cool Bear]

Hi Monica & Co,

Your present priority (copied from an earlier post):

The Auto-lend engine prioritises which Lender it orders notes for first using a prioritisation ratio of 'Funds available' to 'principal outstanding +1'. The Lenders with the highest ratio will get the first orders of notes. For example:



Lender A has $50 Funds available and $1,000 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 5% (50 / 1001)
Lender B had $300 Funds available and $8,000 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 3.75% (300 / 8001)
Lender C has $8,300 Funds available and $187,800 Principal Outstanding, so a ratio of 4.41% (8,300 / 187,801)


In this scenario, Auto-Lend would prioritise Lender A first, then Lender C, then Lender B.

In the above scenerio, A gets priority over C. In the real world, A, with just $1000 invested, would probably want to invest his/her $50 manually and not lose control over his/her money. C on the other hand do not have the time to sign in every 30 minutes to check if he/she can invest his/her $8300 cash. So the present model do not benefit those who needs Autolend most.

I can suggest two very simple alternatives:

Alternative One
Just based the priority on the Cash available.
So, would be C then B, then A.

Alternative Two
Keep your present arrangement but add 1% to an investor score for every $50000 he has in his principal outstanding.
So, someone with $2200 cash and $50000 would have $2200/$50001 +1% = 5.4%
and someone with $3000 cash and $160000 would have $3000/160001 +3% = 4.9%
Thus, in your example above C will now have 7.41% and the priority would be C, A then B.

My recommendation is Alternative Two

[Cool Bear]

Hi again Monica

Alternative two also encourage investors to increase their investment to hit the next $50,000.

Presently, the incentive is for those with a lot invested to take out the excess cash, which can grow very fast with repayments (early or not), as it is too time consuming!

Regards
Cool Bear

[Darchie]

Cool Bear ... you've hit the Nail on the Head ....
I was a late starter with autolend was only there from early November, and I found it really improved my attitude towards Harmoney ... but now I've not seen an autolend since 14th Dec ... SO my currentl intention is; log in .. if no loan there that fits my selection criteria. . Then whatever credit sitting there for the day is withdrawn ......

[whitt]

Cool Bear
I like alternative 2 although with a tweak. Earlier reward people than first 50k.

50k figure would still be tedious to achieve manually and if you are trying to encourage mum and dad investors why not have some earlier reward levels as it is unlikely they will ever meet the 50k suggestion.

Instead maybe a simple 0.1% bonus every 5k. That gives the same effect as your example 1% every 50k but helps the small investors too.

[whitt]

Login to your dashboard and check today's news guys.
18 Jan

The restriction on quantity of autolend loans per loan has been removed.

Let's see if this improves our trigger rate.

The only autolend restriction criteria that remains is now the % rule.

[Fisherking]

Login to your dashboard and check today's news guys.
18 Jan

The restriction on quantity of autolend loans per loan has been removed.

Let's see if this improves our trigger rate.

The only autolend restriction criteria that remains is now the % rule.


Can't see that helping, its the % that's the problem.

[Fisherking]

Agree, it's a very useful tool, but not worth having if it can't be used once you get a few $ invested.

Maybe i'm a cynic but it seems to me Harmoney will benefit if all us investors have a few $ sitting in our accounts unused. Collectively this would sum to a few $ which i'm sure they'll put to use somewhere. This is one possibility for the current arrangement.


My ratio (cash/total investment) seldom goes above 1% which is why I don't expect much from Autolend if Harmoney continue with this rule. I understand Harmoney wanting to be fair to smaller investors but they are missing the point of the exercise.

Someone with $10000 invested and $500 cash will probably want to do it manually and they will have time to do it as the cash repayments do not accumulate that fast. For an investor with say $80,000, to be in the same 5% ratio, you will need to leave $4000 in Cash to get the same priority. And as you probably have to sign in every half an hour in order to be able to do it manually as the loans dissappear too quickly, you are the one that really needs Autolend.

[Cool Bear]

Can't see that helping, its the % that's the problem.
Agreed. Probably made it worse for those of us with more $ invested and thus lower %. The guys in front of us (now without limits) will fill up the amount allotted to Autolend for each loan faster.

[nztyke]

Agreed. Probably made it worse for those of us with more $ invested and thus lower %. The guys in front of us (now without limits) will fill up the amount allotted to Autolend for each loan faster.

I agree with all of the above. i have moved from frustration to annoyance on this issue. I am not putting any new money into Harmoney, using LC instead, fewer loans and lower returns but lower risk profile and there doesn't seem to be the same level of churn that is evident in Harmoney. Cash available to principal outstanding currently 2.8%

[Saamee]

Now I've gotta say > RAR being updated Weekly - What a great and unexpected move by Harmoney...

8617

[scottwalshnz]

I've got this query with the Harmoney team as well, but would be interested if this group has a solution.

I've started investing in some Payment Protection loans. Harmoney has provided some guidance on their view of the tax (https://www.harmoney.co.nz/payment-protect/lenders).

However the challenge I have is that I can't find the data in the monthly statements.

For example,

At draw-down the Payment Protect Fee is added to the principle, as the loan is re-payed, it comes back as part the principle and can't separate principle from the Payment Protect Fee which taxable over the term.
Sales Commission at commencement of loan does not appear to show up
Management Fee at commencement of loan does not appear to show up (Sales Commission vs Management Fee have different tax treatments, so need to be separated).


How are other people dealing with this?

[scottwalshnz]

I invest with Harmoney under two entities, and use Xero Cashbook for the accounts of both entities.

On a monthly basis I post journals based on the Harmoney statements so I end up with a correct reflection in my P&L and b/s (sample CoA below for non-Payment Protect loans).
I'd like to see a Xero integration from Harmoney to make make this less manual.

Are other people using Xero for entries that have Harmoney accounts?
I'm hoping if there is demand in this forum, Harmoney are more likely to invest in the feature.



CoA
Account: Peer-to-Peer Lending - Harmoney - Interest Received
Type: Revenue
Report Code: Trading revenue

Account: Peer-to-Peer Lending - Harmoney - Service Fees
Type: Direct Costs
Report Code: Expense

Account: Peer-to-Peer Lending - Harmoney - Principle Written Off
Type: Overhead
Report Code: Bad debts

Account :Peer-to-Peer Lending - Harmoney - Cash Balance
Type: Current Asset
Report Code: Bank and cash/(bank overdraft)

Account: Peer-to-Peer Lending - Harmoney - Principle Balance
Type: Non-current Asset
Report Code: Investments (non current)

[permutation]

This is what I suggested 1 year ago.


I reckon that the RAR should be updated daily.
It's all computerised; once you have a formula it should be updating real-time along with account balances etc.
Imagine if the NZX50 had all the share prices updating daily but they only published the index once a month..

Harmoney are now updating the composite RAR's daily on their platform statistics page, everyone take a look; slide your mouse over the graph.
Why can't this be extended to each account??

[RMJH]

This is what I suggested 1 year ago.



Harmoney are now updating the composite RAR's daily on their platform statistics page, everyone take a look; slide your mouse over the graph.
Why can't this be extended to each account??


Jeepers, there's no pleasing some people!

[Bjauck]

This is what I suggested 1 year ago.



Harmoney are now updating the composite RAR's daily on their platform statistics page, everyone take a look; slide your mouse over the graph.
Why can't this be extended to each account?? Fair question. It is good that they are updating published individual RAR calculations more frequently. However if they can produce accurate composite RARs daily, then surely they can update individual RARs daily too.

[nztyke]

Fair question. It is good that they are updating published individual RAR calculations more frequently. However if they can produce accurate composite RARs daily, then surely they can update individual RARs daily too.

Who cares? Monthly is fine for me, I do my own calculations anyway. I would much rather they concentrated on fixing the autolend issue.

[Soolaimon]

Who cares? Monthly is fine for me, I do my own calculations anyway. I would much rather they concentrated on fixing the autolend issue.

Exactly !!!

[BJ1]

Exactly !!!

Isn't the real point of interest not what has been achieved historically over however long an investor has been on the platform, but what returns are currently being achieved. I have an historic RAR of 13.64% (was shown as 13.80% before the last update - and no losses) but my current estimation of future return is running at 15.02% (as I have adjusted my risk profile as I have gained confidence in the risk assessment). The RAR doesn't include accruals so if you are a "lumpy" investor as I am, and invest additional cash at the beginning of the month then your RAR will decline during the month. It's useful to compare actual RAR on the whole platform, over time, as that gives insight to the overall loss performance and the impact of increased fees, but much more useful are the individual risk grade performances. My preference for development dollars is to fixing anomalies, not providing more historical information.

[Fisherking]

The only reason i can think of for not doing daily updates is the time of update ie your RAR could change significantly if measured just prior or after either an investment or spend.

I don't see a great need for daily RAR but weekly does sound beneficial given, as you say it should be a fairly simple calculation that could be automated at what would seem little cost.

However agree with Tyke that i'd prefer the autolend issue were resolved before RAR is updated.


This is what I suggested 1 year ago.



Harmoney are now updating the composite RAR's daily on their platform statistics page, everyone take a look; slide your mouse over the graph.
Why can't this be extended to each account??

[Investor]

Isn't the real point of interest not what has been achieved historically over however long an investor has been on the platform, but what returns are currently being achieved. I have an historic RAR of 13.64% (was shown as 13.80% before the last update - and no losses) but my current estimation of future return is running at 15.02% (as I have adjusted my risk profile as I have gained confidence in the risk assessment). The RAR doesn't include accruals so if you are a "lumpy" investor as I am, and invest additional cash at the beginning of the month then your RAR will decline during the month. It's useful to compare actual RAR on the whole platform, over time, as that gives insight to the overall loss performance and the impact of increased fees, but much more useful are the individual risk grade performances. My preference for development dollars is to fixing anomalies, not providing more historical information.

They would rather offer you facts instead of taking requests from people like you who want a "current future" return.

[BJ1]

They would rather offer you facts instead of taking requests from people like you who want a "current future" return.

No. I didn't say I wanted them to do that. I want them to fix the problems on their platform instead of giving more up to date, rather pointless, historical information.

[Investor]

No. I didn't say I wanted them to do that. I want them to fix the problems on their platform instead of giving more up to date, rather pointless, historical information.

Which is effectively asking for a CURRENT (up-to-date) estimate of your FUTURE return. Spend less time data mining and go invest.

[BJ1]

Which is effectively asking for a CURRENT (up-to-date) estimate of your FUTURE return. Spend less time data mining and go invest.

This is not a forum for getting personal, so I won't, but please behave the same way. I do not want future return estimates. When I said no, that is what I meant. I do want errors fixed - such as loans which are approved for 36 months but now still are recorded as 36 months but payments are occurring on a 60 month basis, and arrears records are therefore wrong. There are many errors in the system and, as I said before, I want them fixed rather than Harmoney spending money on providing frequently updated historical information.

[Investor]

This is not a forum for getting personal, so I won't, but please behave the same way. I do not want future return estimates. When I said no, that is what I meant. I do want errors fixed - such as loans which are approved for 36 months but now still are recorded as 36 months but payments are occurring on a 60 month basis, and arrears records are therefore wrong. There are many errors in the system and, as I said before, I want them fixed rather than Harmoney spending money on providing frequently updated historical information.

Fair enough :)

[whitt]

Xmas arrears have kicked in.
My arrears total has increased sharply by 40% since Xmas.
I suspect it's the xmas over spend by borrowers and hope they get paid off soon.

[Silverlight]

Hi guys,

Do you know if Harmoney have a suggestion area for new additions? I would like to filter (auto-lend) by region? I fi go through manually it tells me where the borrower is from, but there is no auto filter for it.

Thanks

[Investor]

Hi guys,

Do you know if Harmoney have a suggestion area for new additions? I would like to filter (auto-lend) by region? I fi go through manually it tells me where the borrower is from, but there is no auto filter for it.

Thanks

I don't think they do at the moment. Normally myself and I believe others just email your suggestion(s) to someone you've dealt with from Harmoney.

[permutation]

Hi guys,

Do you know if Harmoney have a suggestion area for new additions? I would like to filter (auto-lend) by region? I fi go through manually it tells me where the borrower is from, but there is no auto filter for it.

Thanks

So how do you think regions will help your lending return?
I have done an analysis (via Excel) of my, close to 900 loans, over the last 22 months and I can't really find any pattern that is positive or negative regarding regions.

Also if they provided a filter like that they would have to have a dropdown list of more than 50+ areas?!!

[whitt]

LOL
Theres a loan for 48k at 19%. Reason to purchase new car.
Doesn't sound like a sensible reason to borrow funds at 19% to me.
Whats wrong with a 10,15,20k car?

[permutation]

LOL
Theres a loan for 48k at 19%. Reason to purchase new car.
Doesn't sound like a sensible reason to borrow funds at 19% to me.
Whats wrong with a 10,15,20k car?

That loan is a rewrite, they had $27k before so they've added another $21K to buy the new car I guess? The one good merit is, 15 successful repayments. I have taken 1 unit because of that.

[whitt]

I have managed to successfully have a couple of autolend loans be processed this week.
My cash available vs outstanding principal was over 8% and not all satisfactory loans got picked up via autolend. Not sure if that means the % criteria can vary depending on each loan.

[Saamee]

Almost Tax Time...

Can someone try to explain how one accounts for the P2P Lenders charges on your Annual IRD IR3 Tax return?

Where does one enter( account for ) the loss - we all know where the Interest is entered.

T.I.A

[777]

Almost Tax Time...

Can someone try to explain how one accounts for the P2P Lenders charges on your Annual IRD IR3 Tax return?

Where does one enter( account for ) the loss - we all know where the Interest is entered.

T.I.A


In the part that says "Other expenses".

The next thing for you is how you are going to come up with the correct amount to enter.

[whitt]

In the part that says "Other expenses".

The next thing for you is how you are going to come up with the correct amount to enter.
Harmoney has a small description on its website of what and what might not be taxable. Although not having exact figures makes it near impossible to claim

[777]

Your dashboard has the total figure on it since you have stared. I record what the figure is at 31st March each year and then claim the difference from the previous year.

[Finite]

In the part that says "Other expenses".

The next thing for you is how you are going to come up with the correct amount to enter.

What is wrong with using Reports / Statements / Tax Certificates.

It seems to have it all there!

[Saamee]

In the part that says "Other expenses".

The next thing for you is how you are going to come up with the correct amount to enter.

Thanx 777

Last year both HM & LC included that figure on your personal Resident With-holding Certificate.

Duh... last year I forgot to put those figures in!

[777]

What is wrong with using Reports / Statements / Tax Certificates.

It seems to have it all there!

You are right although that is only for 2016 on. The 2015 did not have that info.

[jmacka]

Hi all,
Just been thinking about this for a while so thought I'd ask it here, maybe someone knows - when a borrower repays late or not in the full amount that they are meant to repay each month, do they get hit with a penalty?

[Saamee]

Hi all,
Just been thinking about this for a while so thought I'd ask it here, maybe someone knows - when a borrower repays late or not in the full amount that they are meant to repay each month, do they get hit with a penalty?

Info here >>

https://www.harmoney.co.nz/how-it-works/interest-rates-and-fees

Whether they charge the fee(s) or not maybe depends on the borrower and the relationship!

[jmacka]

Info here >>

https://www.harmoney.co.nz/how-it-works/interest-rates-and-fees

Whether they charge the fee(s) or not maybe depends on the borrower and the relationship!

Thanks Saamee, I'm sure we all have had borrowers who are in arrears, but I don't believe we see any of these overdue fees or dishonour fees put into our accounts.

[BJ1]

Thanks Saamee, I'm sure we all have had borrowers who are in arrears, but I don't believe we see any of these overdue fees or dishonour fees put into our accounts.
If you have a look at clause 59(b) of the Harmoney Investor Agreement you will see that all the fees Harmoney charges borrowers for collection activity accrue to Harmoney and not to investors. Investors do receive interest on the daily loan balance so if a payment is late interest does accrue on that late payment.

[BJ1]

Most lenders on the platform will face a situation where they have overpaid RWT because the calculation of RWT deducted and sent to IRD is based on the gross amount of interest received, with no allowance for allowed deductions, such as the 15% which Harmoney charges for administration. So, if you pay 17.5% RWT all year and Harmoney charges 15% fee all year you will have sent to IRD 20.6% of net taxable interest instead of your legal 17.5%. If you want to maximise your returns by reinvesting all cash available and not wait for the IRD to issue a refund after you file your tax return, then it would make sense to change your tax rate to a lower level in time for the average of the two tax rates to equate to your legal obligation to IRD. That time has passed so I suggest that investors should lower their tax rate tonight to create a better end of year result. I am informed by Harmoney that it would be best to make this change after 5pm as otherwise there could be some interest charged at one rate and some at another, depending on Harmoney's processing timing (not that it makes much difference). If you do this, don't forget to change the RWT rate back on 1 April and then review again about 1 January next year.

[Finite]

you want to maximise your returns by reinvesting all cash available and not wait for the IRD to issue a refund after you file your tax return, then it would make sense to change your tax rate to a lower level in time for the average of the two tax rates to equate to your legal obligation to IRD.

I don't know for sure but I bet the IRD would not be happy with this and it could lead to action against you!

[Saamee]

I don't know for sure but I bet the IRD would not be happy with this and it could lead to action against you!

If you are careful I would think as long as you did not cross the $2,500 Tax Due limit then all OK.

If you cross the $2,500 Tax due at end of year then they will ask for Provisional Tax Payments for the following year and maybe impose Use of Money penalty's....

[permutation]

In my Opinion: The tax rate up to $14,000 is 10.5%. If one knows that Gross Taxable Income after expenses for the financial year will be greater than $14,000 but less than $48,000, surely the correct RWT declared should be 17.5%. There is no tax rate between 10.5% and 17.5%. If GTI will be over $48,000-$70,000 then the RWT would be 30% for an individual unless the income is a PIE.
On the other hand if someone is a provisional tax payer then the tax due can be re-estimated throughout the financial year until the last instalment date with an IR309 form for an individual. E&OE.

[777]

Why would you bother BJ1. In most cases you can file your IR3 by early May and any overpayment of tax is refunded within a week or 10 days.

[Darchie]

Loan 87601 B3 grade ... with an impressive after tax mthly income of: $124,491.67
You'd think HM could put some sort of verification into place!

[BJ1]

Just noticed it myself. I've told them about these in the past but get no undertaking to fix the glitch that allows them to slip through.

[permutation]

They promised weekly RAR updates, last one was mid Jan, they haven't updated the platform one since December. I had a deposit cleared in the reports section, but it takes hours to appear on the Dashboard. Lastly had no Autolend loans since mid December, my filters haven't changed.

[Saamee]

They promised weekly RAR updates, last one was mid Jan, they haven't updated the platform one since December. I had a deposit cleared in the reports section, but it takes hours to appear on the Dashboard. Lastly had no Autolend loans since mid December, my filters haven't changed.

They must have been listening to You > Just updated to 21st Jan today!


8653

[icyfire]

Loan 87601 B3 grade ... with an impressive after tax mthly income of: $124,491.67
You'd think HM could put some sort of verification into place! These mistakes are a regular occurrence on the HM platform and it makes one wonder if the loans information can be trusted at all.

[whitt]

. Lastly had no Autolend loans since mid December, my filters haven't changed.
My autolend started working if i let my principal outstanding vs available funds ratio get over 8%.

8656

[icyfire]

They promised weekly RAR updates, last one was mid Jan, they haven't updated the platform one since December. I had a deposit cleared in the reports section, but it takes hours to appear on the Dashboard. Lastly had no Autolend loans since mid December, my filters haven't changed. I've turned my Auto-Lend off after I saw one borrower with 2 Defaults and another borrower with 18 Enquiries Last 6 Months. Unfortunately HM keeps making promises about adding filters for Defaults and Enquiries but nothing so far.

[Darchie]

I've turned my Auto-Lend off after I saw one borrower with 2 Defaults and another borrower with 18 Enquiries Last 6 Months. Unfortunately HM keeps making promises about adding filters for Defaults and Enquiries but nothing so far.
OMG that's scary!

[permutation]

Today, Waitangi Day, invested in 7 loans and I must say I was very impressed, as soon as the loans were filled they appeared in my reports section. Well done Harmoney, this is how it should always be. It gives me confidence in your platform and it is a pleasure to support you and of course the borrowers.

[icyfire]

OMG that's scary!Pretty scary indeed.8666

[icyfire]

Has anyone noticed a correlation between high Enquiries in Last 6 Months (i.e > 4) and defaults?

[Darchie]

No .. as in i have 49 loans written off
32 had 1 enquiry
9 had 2 enquiries
2 had 3 enquiries and
6 had 4 enquiries

[johna]

Is it just me, or is there a real lack of loans around? Finding it really hard to invest at the moment, even without being fussy! Maybe they need to ramp up the marketing on the sell side.

[RMJH]

Is it just me, or is there a real lack of loans around? Finding it really hard to invest at the moment, even without being fussy! Maybe they need to ramp up the marketing on the sell side.
You are not alone. I am finding there are not quite enough loans to replace repayments so cash is slowly growing and portfolio shrinking. I upped to 5 notes per loan from 4 but cash is still stubbornly around 7%.

[permutation]

You are not alone. I am finding there are not quite enough loans to replace repayments so cash is slowly growing and portfolio shrinking. I upped to 5 notes per loan from 4 but cash is still stubbornly around 7%.

Same here, have noticed this since they open-ended the number of notes for Auto-lend, speaking of which, have had only one such loan since mid Dec. I have made no adjustments to filters. I do notice that when a loan appears in my A/L filter it is about 15% full. So from this I ponder; very few lenders with big $ balances requesting greedy numbers of notes get 1st dibs??

[Wsp]

Has anyone noticed a correlation between high Enquiries in Last 6 Months (i.e > 4) and defaults?

Not myself but some analysis from overseas indicates that a higher number of enquiries tends to result in a greater likelihood of default.
See http://www.lendacademy.com/why-number-of-inquiries-is-my-favorite-p2p-lending-filter/

[darrenc]

Same here, have noticed this since they open-ended the number of notes for Auto-lend, speaking of which, have had only one such loan since mid Dec. I have made no adjustments to filters. I do notice that when a loan appears in my A/L filter it is about 15% full. So from this I ponder; very few lenders with big $ balances requesting greedy numbers of notes get 1st dibs??


Same problem here. I have $80k in and am struggling to get rid of it all given the level of repayments (not just interest). So much so that I've started transferring some of it out to Lending Crowd which has even fewer loans, but at least I can invest it somewhere. I'm mostly buying 3 notes per loan in Harmoney. I've never had an autolend trigger. I've had up to $1500 sitting in the account, which is a lot to be laying around not earning 15%pa.

[alistar_mid]

Same problem here. I have $80k in and am struggling to get rid of it all given the level of repayments (not just interest). So much so that I've started transferring some of it out to Lending Crowd which has even fewer loans, but at least I can invest it somewhere. I'm mostly buying 3 notes per loan in Harmoney. I've never had an autolend trigger. I've had up to $1500 sitting in the account, which is a lot to be laying around not earning 15%pa.

I just committed another $25k (started with $50k) when I realised just how fast the money comes out - because of paid off loans. One of my main concerns was how long your money is tied up for as it slowly drip feeds out over the course of the loan, but given you get ~3% of loans paid off early per month + repayments from others, you get 50% of your invested funds back in the first year.

So I just check a couple of times a day, and have no problem finding loans to invest in, sure theres some times when there no loans or loans that don't fit my criteria, but most of the time theres stuff to invest in.

The last $5k will take longer of course as its where I balance everything out to get my desired portfolio dsitrbution

[reacher]

Hi there, new to Harmoney. Is there any notification service about for a loan account holder with information such as loans being paid and receiving funds early?

I am using AutoLend already but wonder if I still need to manage my account on a regular basis to make the most of my deposits.

[BJ1]

If you rely on autolend to keep your funds invested then you are likely to struggle. Investors with a higher percentage of cash to investments have preference in the queuing system and that seems to include the wholesale investors. There are many posts recording the difficulty in autolend over recent months. I have never relied on itl and now have it left permanently on with a filter that targets D grade loans as I can't fill my quota of them - in 2 months I haven't struck one loan. And I've noticed that there are many times when the number of loans filled in the last 24 hours jumps up with no loans appearing on the Marketplace. I doubt that they are being filled by retail investors taking 3 or 4 notes each so it seems the big boys are grabbing them.

[Wsp]

Harmoney seem to have got lazy with their updating of the platform statistics page. It seems to still be from November last year

[reacher]

Thanks BJ1. I have only started out with a small investment for a trial, $500. Once I had my AutoLend parameters sorted it picked up a couple of loans. I have completely allocated my funds by hand picking others and I fell AL will allocate a new note once repayments start coming through.

As a new user I am interested to hear your experience with the D grade loans if you will

[BJ1]

You also need to be aware that when you are manually ordering notes it is common for what is shown as available to not actually be there. There has been a glitch in the system all weekend where no updating has taken place on loans on the marketplace so when you place an order you get a confirmation that it has been accepted, but the number of notes available doesn't reduce by the number you ordered. So eventually, your order is cancelled because it never should have been able to be made. This glitch has appeared previously but seems to be particularly bad this weekend.

[alistar_mid]

You also need to be aware that when you are manually ordering notes it is common for what is shown as available to not actually be there. There has been a glitch in the system all weekend where no updating has taken place on loans on the marketplace so when you place an order you get a confirmation that it has been accepted, but the number of notes available doesn't reduce by the number you ordered. So eventually, your order is cancelled because it never should have been able to be made. This glitch has appeared previously but seems to be particularly bad this weekend.

is that kinda like in the matrix where Neo saw that cat twice and goes "deja vu" and trinity goes "what did you say?". "deja vu" says Neo.
Trinity then goes on to explain that a deja vu moment means theres a glitch in the matrix

You mean like that?

[alistar_mid]

theres F all loans right now. My auto lend only did 2 loans over the week..

[Wsp]

More accurate credit rating should help Harmoney better assign credit grades
http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/money/89742012/sudden-leap-in-new-zealanders-credit-scores

[FIsaver]

Are E loans the best out there?

I was recently looking at Harmony's average return per grade and taking into account the loss what the actual rate of return is (at a given snapshot in time).

How are the overseas P2P market's going? NZ's harmony seems to be rocking - are we just late to the game? What are the general rates of return for other P2P companies in comparison?




average return PY
average loss PY
average total return PY


A
11.87%
0.17%
11.70%


B
15.15%
0.53%
14.62%


C
20.86%
1.20%
19.66%


D
27.25%
2.00%
25.25%


E
35.20%
4.28%
30.92%


F
39.63%
10.62%
29.01%

[RMJH]

Are E loans the best out there?

I was recently looking at Harmony's average return per grade and taking into account the loss what the actual rate of return is (at a given snapshot in time).

How are the overseas P2P market's going? NZ's harmony seems to be rocking - are we just late to the game? What are the general rates of return for other P2P companies in comparison?




average return PY
average loss PY
average total return PY


A
11.87%
0.17%
11.70%


B
15.15%
0.53%
14.62%


C
20.86%
1.20%
19.66%


D
27.25%
2.00%
25.25%


E
35.20%
4.28%
30.92%


F
39.63%
10.62%
29.01%



I get slightly above the platform return but don't touch E's or F's so struggle to see that they can be much more profitable even though they are much more risky. I also use Zopa and get around 7% but rates are much lower in UK. With Zopa you don't get to pick loans or grades and all investing is automatic (like autolend without any ability to use filters). Harmoney is better imo but the lack of volume means you do have to work hard and still have a lot of idle cash.

[reacher]

Hi FIsaver, are these statistics from your own spreadsheet or something Harmoney has provided?

[FIsaver]

Hi FIsaver, are these statistics from your own spreadsheet or something Harmoney has provided?

It was off their marketplace stats page - http://harmoney.co.nz/assets/Performance-Graphs/feb17-Update/graph7-feb17.png?_ga=1.192435503.485076975.1473978243


third column is me just taking the (average return - average loss)

[Art]

FIsave, I have been investing with Harmoney for about 18 months, but 3/4 of my funds went in about 8 months ago. These are my statistics top row is A's, second row B's etc. Net interest being gross less fees and charge-offs:



spread of net interest
spread of investments
Difference


14%

20%

-6%



33%

40%
-7%



16%

15%
1%


14%

10%
4%


16%

10%
6%



6%

5%

1%







Probably too early to tell yet since write-offs are apparently loaded towards the first 18 moths of a loan, but looking like F's aren't worth the risk, A's and B's under perform in a buoyant economy (but what would happen in a recession?) and E's give the best return. But still early days yet for my statistics.

[BJ1]

I wonder why Harmoney has changed the RAR information as at it's latest update, appeared this morning. No longer two RARs, Retail and Platform, but now just platform.

[permutation]

I wonder why Harmoney has changed the RAR information as at it's latest update, appeared this morning. No longer two RARs, Retail and Platform, but now just platform.

Hi BJI, if you click on the platform RAR arrowed in my graphic it will take you to all the RAR's since inception, just move your mouse along the graph and see the % amounts for everyday.

[XxOrooxX]

Hello! New to the forum! I just wanted to point out something I discovered recently about the dashboard RAR. I tried doing a bit of an analysis on the dashboard RAR compared to a calculated RAR using their methodology. I obviously couldn't. But I emailed Harmoney to figure out why and found out that they actually calculate RAR using actual interest receipts in real time so they can (if they wanted) pull a real time RAR figure for you.

I also found out that the two RAR (dashboard vs calculated) were different but only slightly. The kicker was that they put your charge off amounts on the dashboard before they show up in your RAR which led me to believe my RAR included the charge offs. It could be that it didn't occur to me to sense check my RAR but I thought I'd share my experience.

Now on to my main question. TAX. The new taxation period is coming and I was wondering how you guys disclosed your charge offs on your tax return last year. There hasn't been any guidance from IRD but many articles by the accounting firms. The official stand is that you can only recognise charge offs if you are in the business of investing in loans. There are a number of rules and precedence that have been set but really is up to each persons circumstances. How have you guys recognised P2P loan charge offs?

[Darchie]

Maybe they they've been quite focused on looks! As in a new font!!

[Bjauck]

FIsave, I have been investing with Harmoney for about 18 months, but 3/4 of my funds went in about 8 months ago. These are my statistics top row is A's, second row B's etc. Net interest being gross less fees and charge-offs:



spread of net interest
spread of investments
Difference


14%
20%
-6%


33%
40%
-7%


16%
15%
1%


14%
10%
4%


16%
10%
6%


6%
5%
1%






Probably too early to tell yet since write-offs are apparently loaded towards the first 18 moths of a loan, but looking like F's aren't worth the risk, A's and B's under perform in a buoyant economy (but what would happen in a recession?) and E's give the best return. But still early days yet for my statistics. D's and E's look like they provide you with the best return. However it could depend on whether you are able to deduct charge-offs for tax purposes. Otherwise the percentage of your net interest received for grades D and E that would be payable in tax could be well above 33%.

[s4draynz]

i have my browser refresh every 30 seconds on the marketplace page. There were just two E grade loans that appeared and were completely filled within 60 seconds...

[RMJH]

Hello! New to the forum! I just wanted to point out something I discovered recently about the dashboard RAR. I tried doing a bit of an analysis on the dashboard RAR compared to a calculated RAR using their methodology. I obviously couldn't. But I emailed Harmoney to figure out why and found out that they actually calculate RAR using actual interest receipts in real time so they can (if they wanted) pull a real time RAR figure for you.

I also found out that the two RAR (dashboard vs calculated) were different but only slightly. The kicker was that they put your charge off amounts on the dashboard before they show up in your RAR which led me to believe my RAR included the charge offs. It could be that it didn't occur to me to sense check my RAR but I thought I'd share my experience.

Now on to my main question. TAX. The new taxation period is coming and I was wondering how you guys disclosed your charge offs on your tax return last year. There hasn't been any guidance from IRD but many articles by the accounting firms. The official stand is that you can only recognise charge offs if you are in the business of investing in loans. There are a number of rules and precedence that have been set but really is up to each persons circumstances. How have you guys recognised P2P loan charge offs?
Last year the numbers were immaterial for me so declared interest less fees. This year I plan to also deduct write-offs less recoveries on the basis I am an active investor (1000's of loans) and use filters and manual screening so effectively it is a home business. I don't think I am even able to identify write-offs on my UK P2P book.

[Art]

.....I was wondering how you guys disclosed your charge offs on your tax return last year. There hasn't been any guidance from IRD but many articles by the accounting firms. The official stand is that you can only recognise charge offs if you are in the business of investing in loans. ....

Item 12 on IR10.

[XxOrooxX]

Last year the numbers were immaterial for me so declared interest less fees. This year I plan to also deduct write-offs less recoveries on the basis I am an active investor (1000's of loans) and use filters and manual screening so effectively it is a home business. I don't think I am even able to identify write-offs on my UK P2P book.

Yea, to be quite honest if the IRD gets a slice of our profits they should share in a slice of the risks as well. I will probably do the same as well. Would be good if there was something official on it though.

Has anyone complained about the lack of loans to Harmoney? I've put one through. Hoping if more people complain they might do something about it.

[Saamee]

Item 12 on IR10.

Art... That's a different answer to what 777 menioned in post #1913!

Any further clarification from Art or 777 please?

8721

[777]

Don't get too concerned about the box number. It will be different on different forms. I file online (IR3) and the "other expenses" is box 26. The paper IR3 may be a different number.

The IR10 http://www.ird.govt.nz/forms-guides/number/forms-001-99/ir010-form-financial-statements-summary.html

I have never found it necessary to complete the IR10 but if you are a trader then maybe it could be used.

[Saamee]

Don't get too concerned about the box number. It will be different on different forms. I file online (IR3) and the "other expenses" is box 26. The paper IR3 may be a different number.

The IR10 http://www.ird.govt.nz/forms-guides/number/forms-001-99/ir010-form-financial-statements-summary.html

I have never found it necessary to complete the IR10 but if you are a trader then maybe it could be used.

Hey 777,

I follow that... Get that - Cheers :)

[alistar_mid]

Are E loans the best out there?

I was recently looking at Harmony's average return per grade and taking into account the loss what the actual rate of return is (at a given snapshot in time).

How are the overseas P2P market's going? NZ's harmony seems to be rocking - are we just late to the game? What are the general rates of return for other P2P companies in comparison?




average return PY
average loss PY
average total return PY


A
11.87%
0.17%
11.70%


B
15.15%
0.53%
14.62%


C
20.86%
1.20%
19.66%


D
27.25%
2.00%
25.25%


E
35.20%
4.28%
30.92%


F
39.63%
10.62%
29.01%




yep, I have done extensive financial modelling on harmoney and this the same conclusion i came to - although working this out is pretty easy

[PennyPicker]

Has anyone complained about the lack of loans to Harmoney? I've put one through. Hoping if more people complain they might do something about it.

Ah, I just popped on here to see if others were having the same issue. Disappointing to see loans are so thin.

I remember from years ago working as a stock boy at New World. The store owner said that there was always a dip in sales in March/April as this was when the first payment for hire purchase and loans taken over the holiday period fell due. Always amazed me how people would in-debt themselves to the point where they buy less food because of it, but anyway. Maybe this is a seasonal slump that as a systemic underlying cause and it's reflected in fewer people taking loans?

Looking now, 15 new loans in the last 24 hours. That is way way down on previous quarters.

[BJ1]

Looking at this page:
https://www.harmoney.co.nz/assets/Performance-Graphs/feb17-Update/graph20-feb17.png?_ga=1.190682283.1092806167.1488238455

it is evident that the decline in demand has been quite marked since October. It isn't helped by the policy to allow autolend to "prefer" those with larger proportions of cash while also continuing to allocate 75%+ of loans to wholesale investors. I've managed to remain nearly fully invested but only by spending much more time "live" in order to grab during the very small window that loans are available for. And then, I can't get my quota of D and E grade loans within my set parameters.

[Saamee]

Any one else having trouble Signing in to the Harmoney Website both this afternoon and Friday afternoon too???

Friday it was Intermittent - Right now Permanent - Cannot get in!


8723

[Darchie]

Yep! same here ... they've worn themselves out!
But i ask why you need to log-in Saamee? ... as you'd reported you'd totally withdrawn all your funds from Harmoney

[johna]

me too, probably an untested and bad upgrade!

[reacher]

yep, I have done extensive financial modelling on harmoney and this the same conclusion i came to - although working this out is pretty easy
Do you think you can decrease the average loss of an F loan using some of the filters in Auto Lend? Thereby improving the average total return?

The main filter I like to look at is loan repayment to income as I feel this is a key factor in successful loan repayment. What are other peoples thoughts? I am sure Harmoney has data on reducing the risk of all graded loans based on different filters.

[Kees]

Its all go now real fancy to

[alistar_mid]

Looking at this page:
https://www.harmoney.co.nz/assets/Performance-Graphs/feb17-Update/graph20-feb17.png?_ga=1.190682283.1092806167.1488238455

it is evident that the decline in demand has been quite marked since October. It isn't helped by the policy to allow autolend to "prefer" those with larger proportions of cash while also continuing to allocate 75%+ of loans to wholesale investors. I've managed to remain nearly fully invested but only by spending much more time "live" in order to grab during the very small window that loans are available for. And then, I can't get my quota of D and E grade loans within my set parameters.

there was a similar decline last year.. although not as much. Next few months will be interdasting

[Wsp]

I am sure Harmoney has data on reducing the risk of all graded loans based on different filters.

Yes but if Harmoney thought that a certain filter identified F grade loans as lower risk wouldn't they then re classify these loans as E grade loans? The only reason why they wouldn't was if they felt they didn't have sufficient data to do so yet on a statistically significant basis.

[BJ1]

yep, I have done extensive financial modelling on harmoney and this the same conclusion i came to - although working this out is pretty easy
Have a look at the individual default estimates per risk grade sub-category. F1 offers the highest return @ 32.26% and after that the returns decline; I guess because Harmoney has limited itself to charging under 40% and thus the loan rates are squeezed in F Grade to the extent that F2-F5 don't generate the net return warranted by the risk. They'd have to charge 50% to cover the estimated F5 default risk. That suggests that retail investors seeking to maximise return should leave F2-F5 to the wholesale players.

[permutation]

Do you think you can decrease the average loss of an F loan using some of the filters in Auto Lend? Thereby improving the average total return?

The main filter I like to look at is loan repayment to income as I feel this is a key factor in successful loan repayment. What are other peoples thoughts? I am sure Harmoney has data on reducing the risk of all graded loans based on different filters.

I have posted my thoughts regarding RvI ratios on this forum even before Harmoney added that filter to Auto-Lend.

Have taken over 1000 loans over 2 years now, have 10 E, F grades from 12 total defaults . Have found even with low repayment ratios, there must be other factors that have caused these defaults, one of them possibly very low incomes with some people just unable to make ends meet?


8728

[XxOrooxX]

Have a look at the individual default estimates per risk grade sub-category. F1 offers the highest return @ 32.26% and after that the returns decline; I guess because Harmoney has limited itself to charging under 40% and thus the loan rates are squeezed in F Grade to the extent that F2-F5 don't generate the net return warranted by the risk. They'd have to charge 50% to cover the estimated F5 default risk. That suggests that retail investors seeking to maximise return should leave F2-F5 to the wholesale players.

I agree. There is also a possibility that, in an environment where loans cant be generated fast enough, Harmoney could become more lax on their grading. i.e. accept more unacceptable loan applications into the last F grade and just push everything up the grading system slightly to avoid screwing with their "effective" rating system and risk allocation model while still maintaining loan volumes. I stay away from F grades for now. Thoughts?

[XxOrooxX]

I have posted my thoughts regarding RvI ratios on this forum even before Harmoney added that filter to Auto-Lend.

Have taken over 1000 loans over 2 years now, have 10 E, F grades from 12 total defaults . Have found even with low repayment ratios, there must be other factors that have caused these defaults, one of them possibly very low incomes with some people just unable to make ends meet?


8728

Its quite difficult to make any correlation with the amount of information we're given on these people. I initially thought (as well as many others) that there was a correlation between # of enquiries vs defaults but I haven't seen it in my sample of loans, albeit, my sample is quite small as I've only been with Harmoney for 8 months. Any oldies able to give us some insight with a higher sample size? I know there's an analysis on one of the US P2P players that was called out in this forum.

[Finite]

I agree. There is also a possibility that, in an environment where loans cant be generated fast enough, Harmoney could become more lax on their grading. i.e. accept more unacceptable loan applications into the last F grade and just push everything up the grading system slightly to avoid screwing with their "effective" rating system and risk allocation model while still maintaining loan volumes. I stay away from F grades for now. Thoughts?

With the small number of loans in the market place these days, Harmoney have every incentive to adjust their models to allow more borrowers in.
When the numbers are reduced enough to seriously threaten their business model they most certainly will.
After all, its not their money at risk. And short term survival overrides long term reputation considerations.

[BJ1]

With the small number of loans in the market place these days, Harmoney have every incentive to adjust their models to allow more borrowers in.
When the numbers are reduced enough to seriously threaten their business model they most certainly will.
After all, its not their money at risk. And short term survival overrides long term reputation considerations.

I don't expect such behaviour to occur. Harmoney has chosen to ramp up "production" in a much larger market (Australia) and if that takes off at a rate comparable to NZ the need for volume should be satisfied. So, for investors relishing a strong return on funds and two years experience under their belt with which to judge the risk in the risk grades, we should all keep our fingers crossed that Harmoney's Australian ventures prove successful.

[alistar_mid]

Have a look at the individual default estimates per risk grade sub-category. F1 offers the highest return @ 32.26% and after that the returns decline; I guess because Harmoney has limited itself to charging under 40% and thus the loan rates are squeezed in F Grade to the extent that F2-F5 don't generate the net return warranted by the risk. They'd have to charge 50% to cover the estimated F5 default risk. That suggests that retail investors seeking to maximise return should leave F2-F5 to the wholesale players.

Oh right, haven't quite looked at it at that level but i think I stick in the average time to default for each loan. But yeah, that sounds about right

[Wsp]

Have found even with low repayment ratios, there must be other factors that have caused these defaults, one of them possibly very low incomes with some people just unable to make ends meet?
8728

While a low repayment ratio may indicate that a loan may be easier to service the borrower may have other debt. As such when a borrower takes an additional loan with a low repayment ratio it may in effect be a high repayment ratio when considered along with all their other debt payments. Ie the borrower may be using 30% of their income to service debt and an additional loan through harmoney which only requires 5% of their income to service in effect takes them to 35%. But as lenders we don't know this.

[Wsp]

I've $0.21 recovered out of about $340 charged off. How are others tracking in this space?

I recall Harmoney previously forecasting recovery of $0.10 in the dollar. But cannot find this anymore.

I see Harmoney has been re recruiting in this space too http://m.seek.co.nz/job/32608818

[XxOrooxX]

While a low repayment ratio may indicate that a loan may be easier to service the borrower may have other debt. As such when a borrower takes an additional loan with a low repayment ratio it may in effect be a high repayment ratio when considered along with all their other debt payments. Ie the borrower may be using 30% of their income to service debt and an additional loan through harmoney which only requires 5% of their income to service in effect takes them to 35%. But as lenders we don't know this.

True but we should hope that Harmoney picks up on the fact that their capacity to service the new loan comes up on their credit worthiness review and allocates them to a risk category to suit (if the lender takes out an additional loan with a bit of time that passes before applying for a new loan).

Applying for multiple loans at the same time has presented a challenge for US P2P platforms. I'm sure most of you have heard about the differences between a soft and hard check and how people took advantage of the time it takes to do a hard check (or even the negligence on the P2P provider to do it) to take out multiple loans at the same time. Not sure if it applies here but if it does, it will provide a challenge for us to identify these guys.

One way I'm thinking is checking the # of enquiries they've had. This doesn't mean that every person with a high # of enquiries is trying to apply for more loans they can repay but people that try this will need to make multiple enquiries so it might be a good indicator imo.

[XxOrooxX]

I've $0.21 recovered out of about $340 charged off. How are others tracking in this space?

I recall Harmoney previously forecasting recovery of $0.10 in the dollar. But cannot find this anymore.

I see Harmoney has been re recruiting in this space too http://m.seek.co.nz/job/32608818

The posting is down for me. I never knew Harmoney recruited (of course they do).There's no career section on their website.

[XxOrooxX]

I don't expect such behaviour to occur. Harmoney has chosen to ramp up "production" in a much larger market (Australia) and if that takes off at a rate comparable to NZ the need for volume should be satisfied. So, for investors relishing a strong return on funds and two years experience under their belt with which to judge the risk in the risk grades, we should all keep our fingers crossed that Harmoney's Australian ventures prove successful.

Here's hoping, but there have been no loans available this week so far and only 15 loans in the last 24 hrs. Things aren't looking too good even with low season.

[XxOrooxX]

The posting is down for me. I never knew Harmoney recruited (of course they do).There's no career section on their website.

Sorry that wasn't me being facetious I didn't know they posted job postings publically.

[icyfire]

One way I'm thinking is checking the # of enquiries they've had. This doesn't mean that every person with a high # of enquiries is trying to apply for more loans they can repay but people that try this will need to make multiple enquiries so it might be a good indicator imo.

Displaying the # of enquiries for last 12 months and not just last 6 months would be much more helpful to identify the borrowers who have gone shopping for credit

[alistar_mid]

So loans are few and far between these days... someone suggested the auto refresh add on thing for chrome so I have that.. its has got me a few loans

anyway, went out for lunch, when I came back was greeted by this:

8738

Thats like a tonne of loans at once, more than I have seen in ages.. like weeks.

Harmoney releases the loans in batches then?

[mjplost]

Was just going to mention, I haven't managed to see a loan in the past 3 days. I have turned back on my auto lend because of this.

[darrenc]

I've $0.21 recovered out of about $340 charged off. How are others tracking in this space?

I recall Harmoney previously forecasting recovery of $0.10 in the dollar. But cannot find this anymore.


Mine is just over $2000 with only $20 recovered and $17500 gross interest, and I have $300 in arrears. I'm mainly in B5-D5 with a smattering of Es.

[nztyke]

I've $0.21 recovered out of about $340 charged off. How are others tracking in this space?

I recall Harmoney previously forecasting recovery of $0.10 in the dollar. But cannot find this anymore.

I see Harmoney has been re recruiting in this space too http://m.seek.co.nz/job/32608818

$1001 written off, $21 recovered

[777]

I see (for the first time today and I have been looking regularly) that 2 loans are available. Both 99% full. Token ones in my opinion. Keep the small fry happy.

[mccollr]

I have managed to reinvest $1000 this week taking 4 notes at time. Really only checking morning and nights. Lending Crowd very quiet as well.