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Beagle
26-12-2014, 09:32 AM
Very difficult Christmas for us. We recently found out one of our youngest daughter's boyfriend had become addicted to P. Our daughter I'll call her M to protect her identity assured us she wasn't using but my wife and I were very suspicious as some of the signs were there. Things like weight loss, acute depression, skin on her face not looking too healthy.

Discovered yesterday that they're both on it and at least he was honest enough to admit they'd be on it for months and at worst had purchased 7 doses in one week when he'd had a good week in his carpet laying business. So we're not talking about recreational use here, (we view any use as extremely serious) once a week are we, far from it, i.e. this is a really serious situation especially seeing as they have a 4 year old daughter.

So today I rang the Salvation Army national helpline and got referred to the Henderson Branch where they run a Bridge programme and of course not unexpectantly I discovered that nobody was on deck to help on Boxing day.

I also rang Odyssey House which is based in Avondale Auckland and of course nobody was on deck there either.

My wife and I are out of our depth with this one and seeing as there's some really bright people on here I just thought i'd ask if anyone can give me some feedback on anyone they know that's been through one of the above treatment programmes with the Sally's or Odyssey House or any other addiction treatment programme. Did your friend / contact / relative / loved one get the help they needed in the programme ? Was it successful in treating their addiction on a long term basis ? I hear the odds on relapse even after a treatment programme are high which is more than a little disturbing, (I am sure most of us are aware of the problems the late Paul Holmes had with his daughter Millie). I know it took her about 5 years to get clean and stay clean and caused an enormous amount of anguish for Paul Holmes.

I know people's lives and business's can be ruined by this poison. Not sure where to turn too at this time of year or what to do.

Ring Children and Young persons service ? Will they lose custody of their daughter, will we ever see our granddaughter again ? will we be expected to look after her full time until they've completed a drug treatment programme ?, (naturally we are more than prepared to do this).

Any and all help appreciated and please feel more than free to PM me if there's some sensitivity with the info you want to share.

Many thanks indeed in anticipation of your help and I hope your Christmas / New Year break is going much better than ours.

On Monday I'll ring Odessey House and the Sally's local bridge programme numbers to see what programmes they have and when they might be able to fit them in. Between now and then we are going to confront this young couple and tell them the cold hard facts of life that what they are doing is destroying their future and putting their future joy of having custody of their child at risk, (neither my wife or I think either of them a fit parents at this stage) and are prepared to ring CYPS next week if they don't take this issue seriously.

Other than that placing this thread here for hopefully some feedback is about all else I can think to do seeing as nobody we know has any experience with this sort of mess.

craic
26-12-2014, 11:39 AM
Thirty years in this field as a Probation Officer and trust member on various addiction programmes should mean that I should know the best and worst answers to your problem but the reality is quite different. All programmes work for some people and I never really worked the reason out. Firstly you need to be fully open and honest with everyone concerned. Tell the addicts how you feel about their addiction an explain how it affect you and other members of the family. Don't yell or shout - just tell them and if necessary, walk away, don't argue. NEVER supply money or support, regardless of how you feel - If they are starving, feed and care for the child. Don' admit others from their friends/ addicts into your home - draw a strict line in the sand. Be cruel to be kind but never judgemental. If and when they accept the need to go on a programme, you are halfway there - the programme is just a routine. But avoid anything with strict religious connotations. It will not be an easy road but you have to follow it strictly.

Beagle
26-12-2014, 01:11 PM
Thanks craic much appreciated. I think the most difficult thing we are facing is trying to convince...(I think that should read encourage because you really can't force people to do anything they don't want to do) them that they need to get into a programme. I totally understand where you are coming from with the not giving them money thing...we both know where that money would end up going.
They both have a Christian upbringing so I am sure they wouldn't be averse to a Salvation Army programme. Just getting them to understand the need for a programme and then finding one with an opening at this time of year might be far easier said than done.

BlackPeter
27-12-2014, 06:48 AM
Sorry to hear, mate. Not a great discovery at Christmas .... but at least the first step on a journey which hopefully can help the young couple.

If you need somebody who can help right now - than I probably would try to talk with GP (depending on your GP - (s)he might be available or have an emergency service) or with the mental health emergency service run by the DHB's (they are accessible 24/7). Maybe you or somebody else in your family (like your daughter or her partner) is covered by EAP or OCP (as part of the employment contract) - these organizations have as well a 24/7 service. They won't fix the problem (don't run drug programmes), but they will probably have more information about who does.

Not sure about Christmas time - but self help organisations are typically a good call. Lots of people who really understand the problem (because they've been there themselves - either as past addicts or as family members. Try Mr. Google. One website I just discovered (i.e. can't vouch for them, but looks worthwhile researching): www.methhelp.org.nz.

percy
27-12-2014, 08:48 AM
Bad news Roger.
Our son-in-law had an addiction to Heroin a number of years ago.Like a lot he was bi-polar.
I really think Craic's advice is spot on.
Getting help to start with is so difficult.
We all feel for your family.

gv1
27-12-2014, 09:36 AM
Its heartbreaking to hear this. I don't know anyone close with this problem but know alcohol related. I don't think it will be a good idea telling CYFS. I think it will be better for you to look after your granddaughter, at least she will be in a safe enviroment. Show lots of love, telling them you still love them but they will have to undergo treatment. Giving example of how it(drugs) has racked peoples lives. Set boundaries for them, showing that you are firm in certain matters. Getting them busy with things...sometimes idleness makes people get into theses sorts of things. It can get tougher intially but don't give up on them....be there for them, guiding,talking, supporting, (don't give money). What was the reason they got into it in the first place, try to address that. All the best Roger.

Beagle
27-12-2014, 10:06 AM
Sorry to hear, mate. Not a great discovery at Christmas .... but at least the first step on a journey which hopefully can help the young couple.

If you need somebody who can help right now - than I probably would try to talk with GP (depending on your GP - (s)he might be available or have an emergency service) or with the mental health emergency service run by the DHB's (they are accessible 24/7). Maybe you or somebody else in your family (like your daughter or her partner) is covered by EAP or OCP (as part of the employment contract) - these organizations have as well a 24/7 service. They won't fix the problem (don't run drug programmes), but they will probably have more information about who does.

Not sure about Christmas time - but self help organisations are typically a good call. Lots of people who really understand the problem (because they've been there themselves - either as past addicts or as family members. Try Mr. Google. One website I just discovered (i.e. can't vouch for them, but looks worthwhile researching): www.methhelp.org.nz.
Many thanks mate and thanks especially for the website link.

Bad news Roger.
Our son-in-law had an addiction to Heroin a number of years ago.Like a lot he was bi-polar.
I really think Craic's advice is spot on.
Getting help to start with is so difficult.
We all feel for your family.
Thanks mate.

Its heartbreaking to hear this. I don't know anyone close with this problem but know alcohol related. I don't think it will be a good idea telling CYFS. I think it will be better for you to look after your granddaughter, at least she will be in a safe enviroment. Show lots of love, telling them you still love them but they will have to undergo treatment. Giving example of how it(drugs) has racked peoples lives. Set boundaries for them, showing that you are firm in certain matters. Getting them busy with things...sometimes idolness makes people get into theses sorts of things. It can get tougher intially but don't give up on them....be there for them, guiding,talking, supporting, (don't give money). What was the reason they got into it in the first place, try to address that. All the best Roger.
Thanks mate.

Thanks to all those who sent words or advice, encouragement and support by PM. Its helped me understand that this will be a very long journey and a big part of the challenge will be helping them understand that they need to make a life transformation. As my doctor told me, there's many P addicts out there and every single one of them will tell you they're just recreational users and there use is under control and not affecting them.
At least this young couple know its affecting them, their relationship is on the rocks, his job performance has been erratic and he's got a very bad name for inconsistent quality and punctuality e.t.c.
M and J both have low self esteem and have been lovers since their very early teens about nine years ago. They've been into all sorts of addictions over the years, smoking, alcohol, wacky weed, legal high's and now P are just the ones we know about. Both rebel's without a cause and extremely delinquent.

The Odessey house 3 month live in programme for young adults with dependent children looks ideal for them. Thanks to the many kind words and wisdom offered my wife and I have some tools to get started on this journey.
We know we have to really reassure them that we care for them and love them and encourage them to make a major life change. We need to show them in love that their life long pattern of addiction leads to destruction and that there's a better way. I believe the hardest part of this process will be convincing them to take it seriously and getting them to enrol in the programme.
Several people have cautioned me about getting CYPS involved and I must admit I have heard some horror stories over the years about their apparent ineptitude so we are disinclined to go down that route unless its an absolute last resort, (i.e. they continue to be recidivist offenders with P and over a period of weeks make no effort at all to get into any programme). I think given their long history of nearly a decade of extreme delinquency getting them to enrol into a programme is going to be FAR FAR easier said than done....but of course we have to try our very best.

skid
27-12-2014, 02:29 PM
Im not overly experienced in this particular matter but I certainly agree with the ''idleness''factor--often the motivation of a goal is a powerful alternative.
In my opinion a reformed gang member or sportsman would be a far more effective force than a sallies program (with all due respect to the wonderful work they do)
I believe they need to see the ''real blokes'' that have come back from this---It may be impossible till they hit bottom,but its worth a try if you can find someone that fits the bill.
From what I have seen the very thing that brings these role models home in the first place is their family (kids) and the motivation of helping others come out. Its a bit of a paradox to think that some of those who help others the most are getting the help they need from the act of helping others.
Good Luck--(one good sign is that the partner is still working)

Beagle
27-12-2014, 04:52 PM
Thanks Skid.
We had a good afternoon with M today. Initially she was very reluctant to admit to us she had been using but gradually opened up.
She seemed genuinely encouraged that there was a programme out there that could help her and J rebuild their lives and appeared very pleasantly surprised that it was live in and they'd be looked after with accommodation meals and childcare. I told her that the family live in centre was purpose built for young adults to give them a chance to re-boot their lives and she seemed pleased to hear the details. I think M is keen to try and rebuild their relationship which is in absolute tatters at present. We spent quite some time with her reassuring her that we really love her and care for her and then hung out and enjoyed a movie at her flat. J was out today so I am not sure how he will respond.
http://www.odyssey.org.nz/treatment_services
We plan to have a day off from this issue tomorrow and then invite them for a family picnic lunch at the beach on Monday and plant the seed of hope with him. I'll ring Odessey on Monday morning and see if and when they might have the capacity for them. Although we realise that we face a long journey supporting them the first step went much better than I thought it would. There is hope. Our granddaughter appeared well fed and neat and tidy.
They'd bought her a new trampoline for Xmas which we saw as an encouraging sign in as much as that was an indication not all their spare money has gone on P. M seemed really pleased to see us and spend the afternoon together.

clips
27-12-2014, 08:28 PM
good on you for stepping up for the family, have absolutely no experience in this area but agree with the "idleness" factor. wish you the best, you've taken a great step forward just asking for help/advice

gv1
27-12-2014, 08:45 PM
Good on you mate..
Have you considered that your grand daughter could be breathing those toxins when everytime P is lit up in that house. She can have some health issues later on.

nextbigthing
27-12-2014, 10:54 PM
Roger,

Very sorry to hear this, all the best for a good outcome.

No matter what you believe, life works in mysterious ways sometimes.

Beagle
28-12-2014, 04:31 PM
P.S. I realise that my wife and I probably need to join a support group for people affected by P addicts. I'll make some enquiries soon regarding that. In the meantime this is working well for me so a really sincere thank you to all those that have commented and supported me with advice, encouragement, sympathy and support by PM, e.mail and in this thread.

skid
28-12-2014, 05:15 PM
Maybe just coincidence but we had a carpet layer whose name starts with J who did our carpet recently and needed to come sort a few bad seams and never showed -twice--mentioned a wife and little girl--very sociable chap--not really important but made me curious--ofcourse I would never mention it even if it was the same chap(we are in Auckland)

sometimes we have to look for even the faintest silver lining --Go hug your dogs..

Minerbarejet
28-12-2014, 07:16 PM
Jeez, this is hard yakka, mate. However, you know my circumstances and I think you have taken a bold step to outline yours in this medium. I have spent most of today wondering what would be best in your situation.

I think what has to come out of M is the choice between P&J or her daughter.

If she wants P & J, who sounds like a real drongo, then so be it. If she wants her daughter more than P & J then she has some maternal instinct which may end up in the OK basket. The care of a 4 year old is paramount and if the selfishness and lies of the parents jeopardise this then it will need to be placed in the hands of others better prepared to carry this out.

And I dont mean CYPS.

There needs to be an ultimatum in this.

M --- are you in or out?????

The free ride is over as of now.

Your daughter or P

Good luck , mate.

Hope she makes the right choice.

Beagle
28-12-2014, 08:17 PM
^^ Thanks mate and thanks for sharing by PM. I really appreciate the very kind advice, sympathy, support and thoughts so many people are sharing in this thread and by PM. She's a rat bag no question and so is he and its soul destroying that after all these years they've now progressed to P. I doubt there's any point in an ultimatum to be honest. M would choose P &J at this stage. I know that for certain. Definitely one day at a time with this one. Reflecting on this at great length today my wife and I have reluctantly reached the conclusion that we fell 100% certain the temporary move in here is nothing but a blatant attempt to get more money via the DPB benefit and she has no real intention of moving back home and reforming her ways. The fact that she's been over there for nine days speaks for itself and we believe they've got off their face at least twice in that time. Yesterday afternoon's charade was nothing more than her telling us what she knew we wanted to hear and believe. It did give us an opportunity to tell her we loved her and spend some time with our granddaughter so wasn't wasted. After all her lies over the years I still fell for it one more time until I woke up this morning and it hit me that she's just spun me another "story"

I have no alternative but to get in contact with WINZ tomorrow so she doesn't get the benefit and tell them she's moved back with her boyfriend. Stopping attempted illegal benefit fraud, (money that in part at least would in all reasonable likelihood would go on drugs of one sort or another) is one positive step I can take. Not sure I have the stomach to invite them both to the beach tomorrow in the circumstances of what I have to do tomorrow morning.

Yeah Skid...I'm really lucky to have a special bond with one of my dogs in particular who sits on my lap for hours...I have to lift him off usually. Our three Sidney Silky's , (for those that don't know they're a terrier sized dog with lots of silky non shedding fur), are such awesome dogs.

Minerbarejet
28-12-2014, 08:41 PM
Have a little chat to the four year old alone if you get a chance, might be fairly revealing if you ask the right questions.
And dont take it to heart, these are supposedly grown adults in charge of a four year old,
Wager the four year old knows more about whats going on and will tell you in her own little way.
From the mouth of babes, etc

Beagle
28-12-2014, 08:42 PM
Excellent idea, thanks mate.

Minerbarejet
28-12-2014, 09:27 PM
Excellent idea, thanks mate.An extremely large ice cream may help as well.

BFG
29-12-2014, 07:21 AM
Regarding the child, please dont underestimate the impact of their lifestyle on a kid. I have several (now ex) friends who are alcoholics with children. Both chose to drink rather than raise their children, and as a result have never had much to do with them after they split with the other parent. One child is grown up and now has his own drug and alcohol problems and is currently in prison on drugs charges. I remember when he was a sweet little boy - so sad to see what he has become. The other has a son who refuses to see his mother if she is drinking, and she also has a teenage girl who she hardly sees as she has chosen to live in a different city to her kids for years now, so she can do what she wants with her drinking. Her previous partner was also a drinker, who committed suicide last year after a drunken argument

Agreed KW. My grandmother, my mothers mother, was an alcoholic for a very long time. Threw me and my mother out of her house on a visit to England one year in the dead of winter when I was 18 months old. Luckilily my father was there to get both of us. Concordantly, I never met her and she recently passed away. My mother made the trip over to see her go and made it a day before she did pass. She was full of regret and I am thankful they made peace before she went. I will never forget the photo of her my mother took. She looked like a concentration camp victim more than anything else. Sad, but that's how things turn out sometimes.

skid
29-12-2014, 07:51 AM
She's not a total ratbag--there is a place deep inside where she is good(otherwise how would those tattoed gang members come back from this--somehow they reached down and found the good bits and strength--she has that too but she is very far away from it right now and may never find it--she has to do it herself in the end ,but that doesnt mean its best to stand back and watch--KWs right ,you have to get involved if you can muster up the strength to be full time grand parents.
Your about to raise the stakes in this game--Thats good --it may help her reach bottom quicker (if thats what it takes) or maybe come to a much needed dose of reality--she wont be able to fool herself so much now.
Let her know there are options though--very strict options,but there has to be a way out if she can muster the strength to take it. A reason to live in that black and white world until eventually a few patches of color come along(a reward for all that discipline required.) Its gonna be S--T life if she tries but not forever.
My sister didnt make it ,but I have friends that have.

BFG
29-12-2014, 08:57 AM
Roger, something to do some research into.

http://www.alcohol.org.nz/legislation-policy/alcoholism-drug-addiction-act

I was wondering if M was really committed, could she give up her rights and have herself committed to a facility? I'm no expert in this but maybr someone else could shine more light on it? A serious "cold turkey" approach but probably also the best (waiting fir someone to hit rock bottom is not pretty for anyone).

Beagle
29-12-2014, 09:30 AM
Yep, we are very cognisant of the effects of their lifestyle on little L. My wife had the unfortunate experience of being an only child raised by two rotten drunks.
We are doing our best to thread the needle on steering what we believe to be the correct path.

Beagle
29-12-2014, 01:21 PM
Thanks KW. We spent some time with them both today which was productive. We have agreed a plan with them both for the week ahead and we will see if they stick to the agreement as the week progresses. At present they have no money to acquire drugs. We are satisfied that at present little L is in no danger and her basic needs are being met.

gv1
29-12-2014, 09:09 PM
Hopefully this can be of some help...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11379963
nzherald

Four steps to quit smoking

Beagle
30-12-2014, 10:18 AM
Thanks mate, I found that really interesting. I'll send her the link.

Joshuatree
30-12-2014, 10:59 AM
Have emailed a friend who has just finished the 2nd of of a 3year addictions study course with plenty of placements dealing with young people seriously addicted. Will pass on any info if it gets back to me.Nightmare scenario . Hope they get thru it and out into the sun.

Beagle
30-12-2014, 11:15 AM
Thanks mate. They've got zero money at this stage so that is definitely helping. He's annoyed his boss so much he's been laid off, (begging to go back so who knows). She's applied for the DPB, has agreed to move back home with us on Thursday, (gone camping for a couple of days over new year), separately. Their relationship is broken at this point which we see as a good thing. Get her back here in our downstairs flat where we can keep a bloody close eye on her and little L and work on her to encourage her to undertake some programme. That's what's been agreed...we will see if she honours the agreement as the week plays out. We realise we need to ante-up for a MAJOR investment in her in terms of time, effort and relationship rebuilding and we're up for it and know it'll be a really bumpy ride. She wasn't around much in her teens so this is a second chance to have a positive influence in her life and we are naturally welcoming the chance to build a great bond with little L.
I'm trying to stay positive, have increased my exercise programme to five times a week to deal with the extra stress and aiming to lose some kilo's of weight built up over the years in the process.

Beagle
30-12-2014, 12:51 PM
Thanks for the reminder KW.

skid
30-12-2014, 01:49 PM
Guess the first step when shes home is to see if she is physically addicted or just psychologically addicted--If she is able physically I would think a goal would help --like getting in shape at the gym or join the tramping club---a bit like the point JK makes in dealing with depression. Something to start feeling a sense of accomplishment.
I had a friend who after ending a difficult relationship,completely repainted his place and tidied it up--It helped...the start of the new him.

Guess only you will know if and when this sort of thing would be possible.

Beagle
30-12-2014, 02:00 PM
Yep Skid I totally agree. Its a good sign that she asked to help out around the place in return for rent on our 2 bedroom flat that's pitched at only just over half market rate, (talk is cheap though so we will see). We have a 1 acre section that to be honest has got away on us over the years so there's plenty of work required around the place. She's pretty fit already, a lot fitter than me.
Do some work in the morning before it gets too hot and have a nice family outing 3-4 times a week over the holidays in the afternoon / evenings. Spend plenty of time with her, show her we love her and rebuild the relationship is one of the many key's I think.

BFG
30-12-2014, 02:20 PM
Don't forget to lock away any easily saleable valuables, and keep an eye on your cash and credit cards.

If you are interested, the book Candy is a very good story of two drug addicts in a relationship together. Based on a true story, it could be enlightening.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy:_A_Novel_of_Love_and_Addiction

A very good read and screenplay, although very depressing as well.

skid
30-12-2014, 02:24 PM
A very good read and screenplay, although very depressing as well.

Guess you would know about that ,with that Beaver tail addiction you had to kick:eek2:

BFG
30-12-2014, 04:48 PM
What you mean kick it? I'm still well and truly addicted!

6631

Crystal Ball
30-12-2014, 09:29 PM
Hi Roger, so very sorry to read about all this. I agree with skid, your daughter might benefit from daily exercise/ physical activity, even an enforced walk to get some endorphins kicking in and a sense of well being and self worth.she needs to be kept busy so definitely,work around the acreage etc will keep her busy and help give her a sense of purpose. I don t have a lot of knowledge in this area however a friend had a daughter who went off the rails for a number of years, became a street kid,got in to drugs etc. she had to practice tough love even though she was terrified her daughter would end up hurt or in jail. She had to do this because every time she helped out, her daughter always let her down by stealing and spending the money on drugs. Eventually, the daughter hit rock bottom and decided finally that she needed to kick the habit. She did and has been drug free ever since and now has two gorgeous children ( the first one, like your grand daughter was born into this life. She is now a happy well adjusted 13 year old who while wise beyond her years,seems to have suffered no ill effects).Like anything that is addictive, when you become true to yourself and want to change your life, you will. Main concern here of course is your wee grand daughter so the positive is that she and your daughter will be living under your roof. I suggest that you involve yourself as much as you can in her life ,made easier by the fact she is living downstairs, make sure you know where she is always and try to involve yourself with helping her rehab, maybe your wife could mind your wee grand daughter while you and your daughter get into a walking routine. This may open the lines of communication with you and your daughter also. I think it's great that you have reached out to her and she knows you love her. Remind her of that often. It will be hard, but you are already doing the right thing a loving parent / s do. I feel for you and your wife and hope that your daughter is strong enough in spirit to make the right choices. X hugs and thinking positively for you and your family.

Beagle
31-12-2014, 10:07 AM
Many thanks Crystal Ball. May your crystal ball be transparent and shiny and all your stock picks do well :) Best wishes for 2015.

pietrade
02-01-2015, 06:36 PM
You seem to be getting heaps of ositive responses to your situation and the very best advice was from KW.

"A treatment centre won't help unless they truly WANT to stop taking drugs, as opposed to only stopping because someone told them they should. Usually this takes the proverbial "rock bottom" to be hit before they genuinely want to stop."

'You can drag (bribe, force, cajole) a horse to water but you can't make it drink' is so true for anyone trying to help another who is addicted.

Do your best to stay centred, keep calm and very best of luck.

Beagle
03-01-2015, 07:55 AM
Thanks mate.

Abacus
03-01-2015, 04:20 PM
Have sent PM. Hope it's of some help.
Thoughtful Regards,
A

Beagle
03-01-2015, 08:00 PM
Many thanks Abacus and welcome to the forum.

Abacus
03-01-2015, 09:30 PM
Most welcome - have sent another PM. I hope it comes through. If not let me know.
Regards,
A

Crystal Ball
03-01-2015, 09:47 PM
Many thanks Crystal Ball. May your crystal ball be transparent and shiny and all your stock picks do well :) Best wishes for 2015.
Many thanks Roger, would be nice if it were that simple aye?
All the very best for you and yours for 2015, thinking positive thoughts and talking kindly to the crystal ball as it gets its daily polish....��

Minerbarejet
04-01-2015, 06:06 AM
Welcome to abacus. Nice to see a new member we can count on.:)

Beagle
04-01-2015, 07:57 AM
Welcome to abacus. Nice to see a new member we can count on.:)

Very helpful new member with some good insights and helpful advice by PM.

Abacus
04-01-2015, 09:58 AM
Thank you for your overly kind words, Minerbarejet and Roger. I have been lurking on the site anonymously for a couple of years, then joining in 2013, but I felt I had not much to contribute until recently as everybody seemed to be several grades more informed than I. I have been investing for the last 25 years though. I remember loosing my shirt (and most of my wardrobe) in the last share market crash in the 80s. I have since found and read Graham, Buffet and others. And ST has helped round my education as it has given me a more behind-the -scenes look at investing into companies. Yes, I do my own research - like you seniors always like to remind us.
Regards and a Happy New Year to all at ST.
A.

Beagle
05-01-2015, 08:40 AM
Well she finally moved in last night at 9.30 p.m., was supposed to be Thursday and so the typhoon begins...blood pressure already feeling like the blood pressure tablets aren't working:ohmy:

Abacus
05-01-2015, 08:58 AM
Well she finally moved in last night at 9.30 p.m., was supposed to be Thursday and so the typhoon begins...blood pressure already feeling like the blood pressure tablets aren't working:ohmy:

You can check your blood pressure by buying a BP monitor (sphygmomanometer) with a cuff (the wrist models are considered so far to be inferior) at your local pharmacist. Make sure you ask for a demo first and follow directions.
Also positive meditation (think of all the $ you are making on your portfolio) helps 😊

Joshuatree
05-01-2015, 02:12 PM
Have emailed a friend who has just finished the 2nd of of a 3year addictions study course with plenty of placements dealing with young people seriously addicted. Will pass on any info if it gets back to me.Nightmare scenario . Hope they get thru it and out into the sun.


Had reply and a few things which may help ;sorry if its been covered already i haven't read the threads) and its in no particular order from a few texts from a very busy person.

Google CareNZ In the community , treatment options and models etc e.g. methadone programme

Get counselling FIRST.Essential e.g. Counselling for Alcohol and drug addictions.

Don't go cold turkey until other parties are involved; people can die from withdrawl, your body is essentially craving it in every respect and thats why there are places to go for detoxification.

Its like your body thinking its running out of oxygen (detoxification)

Beagle
05-01-2015, 03:36 PM
Many thanks guys. I think I had a bit of a panic attack this morning...which is pretty weird since I very very rarely do that....just the stress of wondering what's ahead. We went for a nice boat cruise today as a family, tried to kick things off on the positive footing...went well. One day at a time...

Abacus
05-01-2015, 04:38 PM
Panic attacks can be good to release some of the pent up emotional energy, they are also a natural response of the body (flight or fight mode) to stress - I recall writing an article for the NZ Herald on this many, many years ago.
However, the increased adrenaline pumping around the body may increase your heart rate and blood pressure. Hopefully, you will be keeping an eye on this.
Strengthening your coping mechanisms will help ameliorate the negative aspects of stress - talking about problems, reflecting on positive aspects of your life, ensuring your close relationships/bonds are strong (sometimes, we can over focus on one relationship to the detriment of others).
Stay strong. Keep well. Stay on the right path. And remember - when the going gets tough, everything comes to an end.
Regards,
A.

Beagle
05-01-2015, 05:05 PM
Thanks mate.

Crystal Ball
05-01-2015, 07:54 PM
Many thanks guys. I think I had a bit of a panic attack this morning...which is pretty weird since I very very rarely do that....just the stress of wondering what's ahead. We went for a nice boat cruise today as a family, tried to kick things off on the positive footing...went well. One day at a time...
Yeah, we are all here for you Roger and hopefully even just putting your thoughts down on ST will help your bp and give you some support in knowing that you are not alone. Great to get out on the boat, good family time and good for de stressing. One foot in front of the other....Rome wasn t built in a day.....

Beagle
16-01-2015, 10:25 AM
Thanks KW, I'll give M every opportunity to read that. The first steps, (nearly two weeks), in a very long journey have been better than I expected. Yes she's be moody sometimes and at times a little irrational but nothing too extreme so far. The vast majority of the time she has been polite, respectful and well behaved. Could be just the honeymoon stage though, we'll see but she seems to be pleased to be back home and pleased that we are loving and supporting her. She's started work on our 1 acre section which needs a lot of work. Keeping her busy seems to be a key.

Crystal Ball
16-01-2015, 12:11 PM
Thanks KW, I'll give M every opportunity to read that. The first steps, (nearly two weeks), in a very long journey have been better than I expected. Yes she's be moody sometimes and at times a little irrational but nothing too extreme so far. The vast majority of the time she has been polite, respectful and well behaved. Could be just the honeymoon stage though, we'll see but she seems to be pleased to be back home and pleased that we are loving and supporting her. She's started work on our 1 acre section which needs a lot of work. Keeping her busy seems to be a key.
That's a great start Roger, and yes, being busy and doing physical work will give her a sense of purpose and wellbeing so well done Roger! Onwards and upwards.....:-)

pietrade
26-01-2015, 08:16 PM
The Likely Cause of Addiction Has Been Discovered, and It Is Not What You Think
Fascinating… and telling it like it is.

"Professor Alexander argues this discovery is a profound challenge both to the right-wing view that addiction is a moral failing caused by too much hedonistic partying, and the liberal view that addiction is a disease taking place in a chemically hijacked brain. In fact, he argues, addiction is an adaptation. It's not you. It's your cage.”…"He says we should stop talking about 'addiction' altogether, and instead call it 'bonding.' A heroin addict has bonded with heroin because she couldn't bond as fully with anything else.

"But we have created an environment and a culture that cut us off from connection, or offer only the parody of it offered by the Internet."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-real-cause-of-addicti_b_6506936.html

Best wishes and 'keep on truckin'.

Beagle
27-01-2015, 09:46 AM
Wow, what a fascinating read. Thank you Pie Trade. Deep inside me I suspected happy well connected, well socialised people living in a good environment are far less likely to become addicted to substances than those who are unhappy and this confirms it. I especially liked this part.
Loving an addict is really hard. When I looked at the addicts I love, it was always tempting to follow the tough love advice doled out by reality shows like Intervention -- tell the addict to shape up, or cut them off. Their message is that an addict who won't stop should be shunned. It's the logic of the drug war, imported into our private lives. But in fact, I learned, that will only deepen their addiction -- and you may lose them altogether. I came home determined to tie the addicts in my life closer to me than ever -- to let them know I love them unconditionally, whether they stop, or whether they can't.

We're doing okay. She's no angel and probably won't be for a very long time to come but she seems reasonably content, albeit a bit isolated. She needs to make more friends of her own age group, (that would be non drug using friends). Long road this one, Unconditional love is an absolute key I feel.

pietrade
28-01-2015, 07:05 AM
Very happy it 'hit the spot' for you - You seemed to be heading in the right direction anyway but the research certainly validates the intelligence of your approach. Best wishes.....

Beagle
29-12-2016, 10:55 AM
Probably tens of thousands of people going along our journey in N.Z. at this time so I just thought in the spirit of the season I would post what we've learned so far on this long journey.

First up I want to record my thanks to everyone that posted on this thread in our time of need.

The first thing you need to understand in dealing with anyone who is addicted to meth is the power of that addiction.
My brother who was unfortunate enough to be involved in a business where the boss got hooked on P told me the following which was incredibly useful in understanding the power of meth.
"If you house was burning down and inside were your kids and a bag of meth, the addict would be looking for the meth"

How would you think that would be possible ?
As someone kindly shared with me, their brain chemistry and thought processes completely change. We've seen this manifestly unfold in a terrible way with M but rather than reco8unt our story in detail I'm not looking for sympathy just perhaps the thing i'd like to share one or two little snippets that might be helpful to others if they find themselves unfortunate enough to be caught in the same set of circumstances.

My advice based on first hand experience over the last two years.

A - No way can you change an addict without them wanting to change themselves. The evidence I have read suggests "interventions" (shipping them against their will to an isolated part of the country or overseas for forced rehabilitation), has a very very low success rate. I have heard its only 3% and can cost ten of thousands of dollars, don't waste your money, you'll need it for other things, see below)

1. Addicts become extremely skillful liars, they can look you right in the face and lie directly without remorse and without any normal human emotion.
2. They will look to convert any sort of help you give them into a mechanism where they use that to feed their addiction. e.g. we gave her very cheap rent here, she used the surplus generated by that to buy more P, I bought her a reliable car so she could get a decent job, she used that to earn more money and buy more P and used the car as a reliabloe way to get around to meth dealers). If you give them food vouchers you will think that will help surely ? No, they need to use less cash that week to buy other groceries so guess where the extra cash they have goes ?
3.They will steal anything they can convert to cash for P, nothing is safe.
4. Their responsibilities as a parent are very much secondary to their addiction, (be prepared for the possibility that you will have to intervene to protect your grandchild and be prepared for the cost in doing this, (you will have to apply to the family court and there will be lawyers bills galore, social workers and psychologists interviews and you may need to effectively "go to war" for the custody of your grandchildren. Protect them at all costs as there is very little you can do for an addict until they want help.
5. Put boundaries around what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior. If necessary to protect your sanity issue a trespass order against your child so at least you have the peace and sanctuary of your own home.
6. Get help for depression or counselling if you need it to cope, (fortunately we have good friends who have helped and we have our faith in God to strengthen us through this journey).
7. Accept that your child will either be an addict or a recovering addict for the rest of their life, life as you knew it for them has changed, they will always face the temptation of the addiction even if they manage to get treatment and quit.
8. Accept you are on a very very long journey with an outcome that will always be uncertain.
9. Get help with caring for your grandchild if you need it, (becoming a parent again in your 50's can be a daunting process.
10. Let you child know you love them but remind them on a regular basis they need help.
11. Don't beat yourself up for what has happened, (the temptation to think it is my fault, I must have been a bad parent, if only I had of done this or that differently, DON'T EVER GO THERE !!!!!).
12. People will tell you to keep loving your child unconditionally with your whole heart and they are well meaning. A word or warning, the addict will break your heart in so many ways that you didn't imagine it could be broken. Guard yourself against this by tough love...you will need to harden up A LOT, unfortunately that's part of this process.

M to the best of our knowledge hasn't been through a treatment center yet. Although the court has ordered it as part of the process for her criminal offending, its one thing for them to order it and another for there to be the space available in a center.

The journey continues. The battle for custody of our grandchild isn't over yet.

Don't much enjoy this but I felt in case someone at some stage finds themselves in a similar situation, maybe one or two of these thoughts and tips I have shared will be useful and our experience will be of some small value to someone else.

Amazingly we have been okay through all this turmoil, somewhat jaded, but that's par for the course.

We are directing our help to the person, (grandchild) that needs it and appreciates it. Until such time as M wants to change and wants to engage properly in a treatment program, there isn't much we can do for her.
While she continues to live with her drug addicted recidivist criminal boyfriend she's known for the last 12 years, (yes her drug addictions of various kinds go back that far) we think there is little prospect for early change but you never know, we won't rule out God working a miracle in her life.

Like the movie Shawshank Redemption so beautifully portrays, "never give up on hope".

The long journey continues...

stoploss
29-12-2016, 02:09 PM
Cheers for sharing Roger , very sad but congratulations for all your efforts , especially for the grandchildren .
Hope the 2017 journey continues to brighten .

S/L

Beagle
29-12-2016, 03:28 PM
Thanks Stoploss.

BlackPeter
29-12-2016, 04:30 PM
Hi Roger,

I have seen similar cases, but luckily never that close as you did. Fully agree with your list, very worthwhile to share. Talking about it can be as well very therapeutic, as I learned when looking after a family member with mental illness (I know, its not the same thing). I hope you have contact to a support network?

Anyway - good on you for all the things you did for your daughter and grandchild. Hope it goes as well as it can ... all the best for the coming year!

RTM
29-12-2016, 05:34 PM
Wow...just seen this thread !
Really feel for you Roger. Your grandchild is very very lucky to have such great caring Grandparents. Well done.
And gotta keep hoping for your daughter.
Regards,
RTM.

Beagle
29-12-2016, 07:56 PM
Thanks guys and thanks for the reminder BP. We do have some support from family and friends with raising little L and now that we've been caring for her a few months full time and finally got some peace from the family court sessions, social workers and psychologists reports over the holidays as well as paid the lawyers bills :eek2: it might be time to plug into these guys to get some more support. I have heard that they're very good. http://www.grg.org.nz/ Just being able to chat to people in the same situation can be very therapeutic, I couldn't agree more and there's always the chance to forge new friendships as well as offering support to others and receiving it yourself.

A couple of my mates who are one and two years older than me, (I'm 55), still have kids at home as they were late starters. One has a 15 and 17 year old and the other a 12 year old so we compare notes on strategy's on how to keep up with your kids demands for energetic activities. Soccer is a good one, kick the ball wide and make them run and hope they kick it straight back to you :) Better still, so I am told, get them in a team and watch from the sidelines.

Must say though that despite all the nitty gritty of going through the custody battle and everything that comes with that, its been quite rewarding in many ways so far. Little L's reading has come a long way in the last few months since we've been putting in the love and care she needs, (she's six years old) and she's a real terror at playing last card and fish and other card games...gave me a right beating this morning LOL. Like most things in life there's a silver lining in every cloud if you look for it ! My wife does most of the heavy lifting in regard to day to day care before and after school. School holidays will be a little challenging but its an opportunity to bond with her and its kind of cool to have a second chance at parenting and fix the mistakes you made the first time around :)

airedale
30-12-2016, 08:50 AM
Roger, compared to many families you have been through hell, but I suspect that you are coming out of it stronger. I hope that the next year {and the years after} will treat you and your wife more kindly. Seasons greetings and best wishes. Thanks for sharing your story.