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Jay
18-01-2015, 01:51 PM
Anyone out there have/had experience with any of these such as Holden Captiva, Sante -Fe, Outlander or even something like a Mazda MPV, though not a CX-9 as they are too long

The 3rd row on the Outlander looks to be no more that a piece of mdf with a bit of fabric over it, was looking to recommend these until then!. Have had a look at the 2014 models and now can't remember if the 3rd row of seats were the same, thought they had changed.

I know a friend who is looking to purchase (2nd hand)

Cheers guys and girls.

Beagle
18-01-2015, 03:55 PM
I owned a Hyundai Sante Fe diesel in 2007 for a little while until I got sick of the hideous body roll, woeful under-performance, third rate gearbox, hopeless brakes.....well you get the picture. Plain truth is I bought on price at the time and you get what you pay for. The Captiva is frequently referred too as a Craptiva on Ford forums as they're truly a hopeless bit of kit with very little to recommend them.
If you let us know your friends budget, what their primary use of the vehicle will be, (school soccer run or something a little more adventurous), does said person value performance and handling or is fuel efficiency the highest priority ? Do they want to tow anything of any meaningful weight ? Bit more info would help.

Abacus
18-01-2015, 06:58 PM
I have had a Toyota Highlander 2011 since new and it has been great. It is a 4wd which I use to tow the boat (5.58m) and it can seat 2 in the 3 rd row. But they have to be children (say 10 or under). The only full size 7 seaters I know of are the Toyota Landcruiser and The Land rover discovery. I have been keeping an eye on the disco, but have not pulled the trigger because of its problems with unreliability in the past (although many disco owners have had great runs). Your mate might want to have a look at the Highlander. But a word of caution - the fuel consumption is only average - about 12-13 L/100km (urban).

JBmurc
18-01-2015, 07:19 PM
Nothing wrong with the ford territory as long as you keep up the maintenance ...which can costs upwards of 10k if the suspension needs rebuilt - brought our one after it just had it all done at 150kms now got 208kms ,,lower ball joints do wear out quick 40-60kms ....but they have very good handling , strong motors diffs .....6spd trans the one you want .. we have the 06 Turbo XR model ..great powerful motor very few sub 100k NZD SUV would keep up Larger brakes .. my oldman has a near new V8 landcruzier not really that much bigger inside ....leg room wise

Most likely we will just keep the Turbo Terra long term get

I found the others mentioned way smaller inside not as good handling / power but much more expensive

fungus pudding
18-01-2015, 08:17 PM
I owned a Hyundai Sante Fe diesel in 2007 for a little while until I got sick of the hideous body roll, woeful under-performance, third rate gearbox, hopeless brakes.....well you get the picture. Plain truth is I bought on price at the time and you get what you pay for.

When you owned it is irrelevant. Year of manufacture is all important. I'm no expert on Santa Fes but I know 2008 saw a major revamp of the Santa fe which was widely acclaimed as a leader in the field. Like all manufacturers, Hyundai have had their share of duds, but in the main seem to constantly improve their products; perhaps more than most.

iceman
18-01-2015, 08:28 PM
I totally agree with that FP. I had a 2006 model Santa Fe that was not really very good. I then bought a new 2008 model which was greatly improved and then replaced it with a new 2011 model which is a car that I like very much. All of them have been diesel. Expect to replace it with a new 2016 model when it comes out later this year as long as it meets my expectations. I would not hesitate to recommend today´s Santa Fe. Most independent comarisons I have seen between SUVs places the Santa Fe high on the list of both quality and safety


When you owned it is irrelevant. Year of manufacture is all important. I'm no expert on Santa Fes but I know 2008 saw a major revamp of the Santa fe which was widely acclaimed as a leader in the field. Like all manufacturers, Hyundai have had their share of duds, but in the main seem to constantly improve their products; perhaps more than most.

Jay
19-01-2015, 07:17 AM
Have to agree FP & iceman.
Should have elaborated - Nothing adventurous, nothing being towed of any consequence. Mainly urban/local driving as she does in-home child care plus their own children (all under 10) and takes them to activities etc during the day.
Looking for a 7 seater to make it easier as have some children before the school run.
It would be the main vehicle for longer trips, thought I think my mate said they average a bit less than $15K per year. Budget under $30K I think, as they would look to replace to something better when their own children are a bit older.

iceman do you prefer a diesel or its it more economical for you??
I did some numbers and I think it was around the 20K per year before the diesel saved you money - that was a few months ago before all process dropped (assuming though they have stayed roughly relative). Servicing cost are higher so I believe.
Thanks

Beagle
19-01-2015, 07:51 AM
My Sante Fe was the 2006 diesel model and by all accounts the new generation ones are reported to be better but may be outside your friends budget.
I agree with JBmurc that the Ford Territory is a very good bit of kit, (undoubtedly the most car like handling you'll get in a SUV in that price range).
Its a real shame they stopped building the Territory Turbo as they are one of the very few SUV's in that price range that have proper performance. I highly recommend one IF you can afford the petrol and maintenance bills. JB is dead right about the ball joint issue. I suspect performance isn't high on your friends priority list so my recommendation would be to buy as late a model / low mileage Ford Territory naturally aspirated 4.0 petrol as they can find. Those inline six engines have legendary reliability...I've owned a number of them, both naturally aspirated and turbocharged in various Australian made Falcon's and FPV's and they're a brilliant donkey. Sad day coming in 2016 when they're made no more. If your friend doesn't like Ford's I'd go with a Toyota Highlander as second pick.

Harvey Specter
19-01-2015, 08:58 AM
We have a Subaru Tribeca. Seems ok. Nothing to compare it too (other than a Swift and an Evo) so cant really comment. They dont make it anymore so only suitable if you are looking for a secondhand within the years they made them (I think there were issues with the first version - 3L but we cond the facelift with the 3.6L).

G on
19-01-2015, 09:39 AM
Get the Dog and Lemon guide from your local library. Very good info and an easy way to help cull vehicles to narrow down your choices.

iceman
19-01-2015, 09:46 AM
Jay when I test drove the first one I preferred to drive the diesel and so did my wife. We are both creatures of habit so have continued with diesels. Not for any particular reason and we don't drive enough during the year for it to make any real economic savings although it appears to be slightly cheaper when I have run it through my calculator.
My maintenance costs since 2008 have been less than $ 2,000 (excluding tires)in total but I do get free 6-monthly checks. I have not had any problems at all with any of the 3 cars.
Had a BMW and an Audi before that but found it hard to justify the huge difference in purchase price and running costs !

Beagle
19-01-2015, 11:04 AM
I always recommend to people they buy the lowest km nearest to new vehicle they can comfortably afford. Reasons being as vehicles age in terms of years and Km's they almost always give you grief no matter what the brand and newer vehicles have more modern safety features like dynamic stability control and more air bags e.t.c.. ...you'd never forgive yourself if you had an accident and a more modern vehicle with DSC would have helped avoid injury / death)
So running a filter over trade me of not older than 2010, not more than 70,000 km's and must have 7 seats and be from $25,000 - $30,000 gave only the following options, which aren't as many as you'd think.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/CategoryAttributeSearchResults.aspx?key=683128854&advanced=1&rptpath=1-268-
I personally wouldn't buy a Japanese import as they are known to be poor at maintaining their vehicles over there so of that bunch I'd pick the Territory at the top or the Mitsubishi Outlander VRX which are a well specified bit of kit

Sideshow Bob
19-01-2015, 11:53 AM
I totally agree with that FP. I had a 2006 model Santa Fe that was not really very good. I then bought a new 2008 model which was greatly improved and then replaced it with a new 2011 model which is a car that I like very much. All of them have been diesel. Expect to replace it with a new 2016 model when it comes out later this year as long as it meets my expectations. I would not hesitate to recommend today´s Santa Fe. Most independent comarisons I have seen between SUVs places the Santa Fe high on the list of both quality and safety

I have a 2011 Santa Fe (actually company car to be accurate). Obviously the handling not car-like and really noticeable when first start driving it, because of the higher centre of gravity. But engine/transmission is smooth and 2.2L turbo diesel is pretty grunty considering. I do around 13L/100Km around town and about 7.5L/100Km on the open road. I think the latest model have the same engine, but actually toned them down a little.

I guess a sign of popularity is the resale value, and if I went to buy mine from a dealer, with lower km, it would be around $30k. So hold their value well. But the new ones are around $70k so starting to get pricey.

It just seems to differ between models.

As an aside, no doubt the local real estate agents will be loving the higher Euro - means there next Audi/BMW/Merc will be cheaper with the exchange rate now hitting 67-68.

Jay
19-01-2015, 12:42 PM
I notice the Nissan Qashqai is on the list, I have heard lots of good things about that car (encountered when researching Nissan hatchbacks). It would definitely be on my list as a result of the reviews if it wasn't too big for what I am after.

Also, I have done the math on the diesel vs petrol - and in many cases diesel is now substantially more expensive as new petrol vehicles are very fuel efficient. You need to find the urban fuel consumption and multiply it by the 65c that is the petrol tax and then compare it to the $5.20 per 100k that you pay in Road User Charges (which is increasing again in June).
eg. petrol fuel efficiency of 7 litres per 100km = $4.55 per 100km is cheaper to run than a diesel.

Add in the fact that you have higher registration charges for diesel cars, pay a higher purchase price for them, and have higher ongoing maintenance costs you are now better off buying a late model fuel efficient petrol vehicle.

That's what I thought when I did a back of envelope calculation re buying a diesel.

Not too many of the 7 seat variety of the Nissans and the new model does not come in 7 seats any longer

Jay
19-01-2015, 12:47 PM
Thanks all for your comments. Sante Fe seems to the best but on the higher priced side.

Will pass on the link, had not thought about the Qashqai until KW mentioned it, a neighbour around the corner has one, will ask what they think of it and pass it on.
Will also get them to have a look at latter models Outlanders and check the 3rd of seats.

As alluded too they only intend to keep for 5 years max most likely but also do not want anything too old and tired.

sashadidi
19-01-2015, 06:03 PM
something else for the diesel verus petrol debate, new modern diesels have a diesel particulate filter on them to help reduce emissions, they can be problematic to say the least and extremely expensive in New Zealand to fix compared to the UK or Europe,eg $2000 to $6000 and not normally covered too well on warranties ,My friend has a holden Capitva already 3 stoppages because of DPF problems as did I on my Holden Diesel Cruze (if was being run on long journeys not around town), the internet will educate you on problems with them

for example http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2332107/Petrol-vs-diesel-cars-Drivers-warned-diesel-filter-trap.html

Just something else to weigh up when buying a diesel these days

Beagle
20-01-2015, 08:47 AM
something else for the diesel verus petrol debate, new modern diesels have a diesel particulate filter on them to help reduce emissions, they can be problematic to say the least and extremely expensive in New Zealand to fix compared to the UK or Europe,eg $2000 to $6000 and not normally covered too well on warranties ,My friend has a holden Capitva already 3 stoppages because of DPF problems as did I on my Holden Diesel Cruze (if was being run on long journeys not around town), the internet will educate you on problems with them

for example http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2332107/Petrol-vs-diesel-cars-Drivers-warned-diesel-filter-trap.html

Just something else to weigh up when buying a diesel these days

100% agree with what you've said. We had major problems with the DPF on our Mercedes-Benz. If you're not doing AT LEAST one 30 minute run on the motorway each week at open road speed, (this allows full temperature in the exhaust to be obtained and a thorough clean-out / regeneration of the DPF filter), you are highly likely to have problems. Further, if you think you're covered by warranty think again, many of the manufacturers are now specifically excluding DPF's from their warranty coverage.

Harvey Specter
20-01-2015, 11:07 AM
100% agree with what you've said. We had major problems with the DPF on our Mercedes-Benz. If you're not doing AT LEAST one 30 minute run on the motorway each week at open road speed, (this allows full temperature in the exhaust to be obtained and a thorough clean-out / regeneration of the DPF filter), you are highly likely to have problems. Further, if you think you're covered by warranty think again, many of the manufacturers are now specifically excluding DPF's from their warranty coverage.Maybe not great for the environment but can you just remove it. Might even get performance improvements from a more free flowing exhaust since most diesels are also turbos???

Beagle
20-01-2015, 12:26 PM
Maybe not great for the environment but can you just remove it. Might even get performance improvements from a more free flowing exhaust since most diesels are also turbos???

Yes but manufacturers are very, very strongly disinclined to do so. Removal without the cooperation of the manufacturer will probably void your entire engine / drivetrain warranty. Yes I noticed a slight increase in performance due to the removal of the restrictive DPF.

sashadidi
20-01-2015, 05:24 PM
Maybe not great for the environment but can you just remove it. Might even get performance improvements from a more free flowing exhaust since most diesels are also turbos???Apparently it very hard to remove as its all "tuned" into the computer and would need a major rewrite which the original manufacturers would probably not do.....

With Hyundai check each model yourself whether it has a DPF, I have heard the newer ones do have a DPF, do your research do not trust the dealer , they only want to make a sale.....
The alleged problem is that they burn the diesel and then slowly the DPF gets filled with ash by product which clogs it and you need to replace it, also if the incorrect engine oil is used this helps clog up the filter faster. I read a typical VW DPF may have a expected life say 80,000km onward's to 100000km and check the price...., cuts into the alleged fuel savings!!!!
Interesting when you a review of a diesel car nobody seems to mention the DPF filter...

Harvey Specter
20-01-2015, 07:33 PM
Apparently it very hard to remove as its all "tuned" into the computer and would need a major rewrite which the original manufacturers would probably not do.....If your out of warranty, replace it with a straight through pipe and take it to these guys: Territory (http://www.torqueperformance.co.nz/make/ford/territory-1/2007/27-140kw-2010) Santa Fe (http://www.torqueperformance.co.nz/make/hyundai/santa-fe/2007-2012/22-crdi-145-kw-2007-2012)

I can personally vouch for the fuel efficiency gains (ahem) that it provides to turbo cars.

Beagle
20-01-2015, 07:54 PM
Apparently it very hard to remove as its all "tuned" into the computer and would need a major rewrite which the original manufacturers would probably not do.....

With Hyundai check each model yourself whether it has a DPF, I have heard the newer ones do have a DPF, do your research do not trust the dealer , they only want to make a sale.....
The alleged problem is that they burn the diesel and then slowly the DPF gets filled with ash by product which clogs it and you need to replace it, also if the incorrect engine oil is used this helps clog up the filter faster. I read a typical VW DPF may have a expected life say 80,000km onward's to 100000km and check the price...., cuts into the alleged fuel savings!!!!
Interesting when you a review of a diesel car nobody seems to mention the DPF filter...

You're on to it.

minimoke
24-01-2015, 12:55 PM
My second is a 7 seater santa fe diesel and I'd recommend it. Came with 30,000 km. The 6 and 7 seats easily fit extra kids up to early teens. Beyond that not much leg room. Very Good leg room in middle row - no diff hump to speak of. Don't expect to put much gear in the back when seats are up. Love the diesel. Back fully loaded and boats on top it eats the takaka hill road which is worse than the rimutakas. Brakes no problem with the tip tropic gearbox. Haven't found rollover a problem.sure it's not a car but it can be pushed round bends. Still averging 8.3 l per 100 km with round town and country driving. Just towed a 15 foot caravan - didn't know it was on. 4 wd also very good taken it on some hairy back river tracks (steep muddy heavily rutted) with reasonable clearance but not a disco.

sashadidi
24-01-2015, 07:50 PM
Just for interest re the Hyundai Santa Fe according to this review the 2012 year Diesel has a DPF.
http://www.carandsuv.co.nz/articles/hyundai-santa-fe-elite-crdi-2012-road-test

Jay
19-07-2015, 10:46 AM
Update
They got an unexpected inheritance and so waited for those funds to come thru and end upon getting the new model Outlander XLS petrol just out for $39900. The 3rd row seats are much better now.
Think he said from 2013 models onwards they changed. Anyway decided on new rather than a 2nd hand Sante Fe (what they preferred but out of price range new) and will now probably keep it longer than originally planned.