LendingCROWD NZ P2P

[leesal]

Having seen FDs balance sheet I endorse Saamee's view and believe that FD are there to add liquidity if required and rarely take positions themselves.

The issue I believe, is the sheer number of investors against the lack of loans. Investors in the thousands and loans between 0 to 5 daily (until lately usually 1 or 2). It appears this has been identified and a potential solution actioned.

On the other hand, I'm not keen on the prospect of lumping up an extra 15% of commission. Its a pity that loan availability could not be increased without having to accommodate third parties and their finders fee's.

[Bjauck]

I am with icyfire. The few times I have been able to respond immediately, including once when I was already on the site, to b loans of reasonable size, they have been fully invested. This seems to be due to an auto-invest operating (either by FC or another party) or someone is taking the whole loan.

[RMJH]

Couple of B loans sitting there. Something has changed.

[Saamee]

Couple of B loans sitting there. Something has changed.


What... No Auto Invests programs running today....


The conspiratorial theorists must have been wrong!!

[humvee]

What... No Auto Invests programs running today....


The conspiratorial theorists must have been wrong!!

The 1st 25% flex / fees loan went up on the site just before

unfortunately the notification emails don't list the flex %

[Saamee]

New Month = New NAR

Has anybody else noticed a slow decline in their NAR ( approx 0,05% per month ) over the last 3 or so months?

I am thinking it is the new lower Interest Rate loans now appearing in the NAR calculations.

Any other thoughts?

[humvee]

New in collection loan .... That won't help my NAR



Id
Grade
Type
Term
Rate*
Flex
Principal
Opened
Princ. recv.
Int. recv.**
Coll. end date***


LN000-063-992
B2
Personal
60 months
19.10%
10%
$50.00
04/04/2018
$2.58
$3.53
02/07/2019

[Bjauck]

New in collection loan .... That won't help my NAR



Id
Grade
Type
Term
Rate*
Flex
Principal
Opened
Princ. recv.
Int. recv.**
Coll. end date***


LN000-063-992
B2
Personal
60 months
19.10%
10%
$50.00
04/04/2018
$2.58
$3.53
02/07/2019













No...and if it is only partly recovered, it will make a difference for your after tax NAR if you cannot deduct the capital loss for tax purposes.

[Bjauck]

New Month = New NAR

Has anybody else noticed a slow decline in their NAR ( approx 0,05% per month ) over the last 3 or so months?

I am thinking it is the new lower Interest Rate loans now appearing in the NAR calculations.

Any other thoughts?
The 25% flex on referred loans will start to take a chunk out of the NAR.

[Bjauck]

What... No Auto Invests programs running today....


The conspiratorial theorists must have been wrong!! Finance Direct have run out of money so are not taking their share?

[icyfire]

Finance Direct have run out of money so are not taking their share?
That has now changed as Finance Direct raised $400k before Xmas to invest in LC loans.

[leesal]

A question for somebody who wont be answering cynically :)

What is your approach to referral loans (will you be taking them, or avoiding?). One I picked up yesterday below.

Am thinking of either avoiding these loans (if I get a chance). Alternatively just taking the rough with the smooth - and factor that interest flex of 17.5% overall.

10229

[Bjauck]

A question for somebody who wont be answering cynically :)

What is your approach to referral loans (will you be taking them, or avoiding?). One I picked up yesterday below.

Am thinking of either avoiding these loans (if I get a chance). Alternatively just taking the rough with the smooth - and factor that interest flex of 17.5% overall.

10229
I will try not to be cynical.
If you had the choice of investing in two loans with the same interest rate and risk profile but one was charging you flex of 25% and the other was charging you flex of 10%, which one would you take? I am not sure if I understand the situation correctly but does the person/ organisation who made the referral get to keep their commission in the event of a default whilst the p2p lender carries the risk of the capital loss whilst having paid the higher non-recoverable interest flex?

[leesal]

I will try not to be cynical.
If you had the choice of investing in two loans with the same interest rate and risk profile but one was charging you flex of 25% and the other was charging you flex of 10%, which one would you take? I am not sure if I understand the situation correctly but does the person/ organisation who made the referral get to keep their commission in the event of a default whilst the p2p lender carries the risk of the capital loss whilst having paid the higher non-recoverable interest flex?

The lender would carry the full risk of capital risk, agents risk is that introductory client doesn't pay or repays early without refinancing (losing the commission stream).

The above question (between investing in 2 risks with/without interest flex at same interest rate) i wouldn't consider, as my objective is to build a diversified portfolio of loans where availability is a consideration. Thus the question is what is my overall system for risk selection, whether would consider investing in each of these loans on their own merits:

1. A1 loan at 7.99%
2. A2 loan at 10.99%
3. B1 loan at 14.54% with 25% interest flex
4. B2 loan at 17.99% with 25% interest flex

Generally speaking, I'm investing in 2,3,4. Although not with huge enthusiasm. My question is what is everyone else doing in terms of their risk selection criteria?

[Saamee]

[QUOTE=leesal

1. A1 loan at 7.99%
2. A2 loan at 10.99%
3. B1 loan at 14.54% with 25% interest flex
4. B2 loan at 17.99% with 25% interest flex

Generally speaking, I'm investing in 2,3,4. Although not with huge enthusiasm. My question is what is everyone else doing in terms of their risk selection criteria?[/QUOTE]

I'm only going for 3's...

I'm after maintaining a NAV around 13%

Happy to invest in either Flex types as I feel it is better to be in a loan than money sitting in the bank \ in LC's bank getting little \ no interest

I ONLY invest in loans with Property as Security.

[Saamee]

So what do you think is the largest 'Threat' to our investments in P2P within NZ?

I've just been mulling this over, especially with another World Economic crisis breathing down everyone's necks!

Well my take and penny worth is this > Personal Bankruptcies > Personal Borrowers that go 'Belly Up' ( Mortgage, Car Loan, P2P Loan etc )

Where P2P Borrowers decide the pain is not worth the gain.... So allow themselves to be taken through the Bankruptcy process.

[Bjauck]

The lender would carry the full risk of capital risk, agents risk is that introductory client doesn't pay or repays early without refinancing (losing the commission stream).

The above question (between investing in 2 risks with/without interest flex at same interest rate) i wouldn't consider, as my objective is to build a diversified portfolio of loans where availability is a consideration. Thus the question is what is my overall system for risk selection, whether would consider investing in each of these loans on their own merits:

1. A1 loan at 7.99%
2. A2 loan at 10.99%
3. B1 loan at 14.54% with 25% interest flex
4. B2 loan at 17.99% with 25% interest flex

Generally speaking, I'm investing in 2,3,4. Although not with huge enthusiasm. My question is what is everyone else doing in terms of their risk selection criteria?
I think the net interest is a relevant factor.
Personally I would not consider that the extra risk of a B1 over an A2 loan would be worth it if the B1 loan was being charged 25% flex and the A2 loan was being charged with 10% flex. I would not consider B1 loans that are charged 25% flex. I would not consider B2 loans with either 10% or 25% flex at this stage in the business cycle.

Real estate Property security is a plus unless the mortgaged property has been owned for a year or less.

In effect you you would be earning 9.89% on the A2; 10.91% on the B1.
However that would need to be weighed up with the lower risk alternatives of earning approx 3.8% in a big Aussie bank term deposit or 0% in the account at Squirrel.

[leesal]

I'm only going for 3's...

I'm after maintaining a NAV around 13%

Happy to invest in either Flex types as I feel it is better to be in a loan than money sitting in the bank \ in LC's bank getting little \ no interest

I ONLY invest in loans with Property as Security.

Thanks for your input, appreciated. However I'm interested in your thoughts.... A B2 25% flex loan is costing you nearly 3% over the standard. But compares favorably to your other options like bank/cash uninvested.

You consider the B2 with only Vehicle as security on 10%, giving you a 16.2% return as an unattractive? (relative to the bank or generating no return options?). My theory on this, and could be incorrect which is why am bringing up, is that the type of security would be factored into the grading/inherent riskiness of the loan. So to provide an example a B2 with vehicle may improve to a A2 if property was added.

Just interested, as these discussions help me refine my logic :)

[leesal]

I think the net interest is a relevant factor.
Personally I would not consider that the extra risk of a B1 over an A2 loan would be worth it if the B1 loan was being charged 25% flex and the A2 loan was being charged with 10% flex. I would not consider B1 loans that are charged 25% flex. I would not consider B2 loans with either 10% or 25% flex at this stage in the business cycle.

Real estate Property security is a plus unless the mortgaged property has been owned for a year or less.

In effect you you would be earning 9.89% on the A2; 10.91% on the B1.
However that would need to be weighed up with the lower risk alternatives of earning approx 3.8% in a big Aussie bank term deposit or 0% in the account at Squirrel.

Agree with your logic, however if the B1/B2 10% flex loans weren't available, you'd be forced to consider the 25% flex against the other P2P and investment options.

Not quite sure that agree on avoiding B2 loans. There is no certainty a recession will hit in the next year, coupled with the (albeit limited) historical data from Lending Club from 2007 and 2008, that demonstrate small positive returns from A-C grades (without any security). Do you view B2 as more risky then a Lending Club (or for that matter Harmoney) unsecured loan?

[CR_111]

I'm wondering how a $30K loan is all gone in less than a minute.

[Kelvin]

Yup. Finding it impossible to get any loans recently. Surely no one can consistently log in and claim all available notes within seconds each and every time a loan is listed. Definitely some automation still out there

[Kelvin]

I think I know what's happening now. Randomly logged in at 3:18pm and there was a $3250 B1 loan listed!*

The notification email didn't come in until 3:29pm! So I guess the emails are broken for at least some investors. I would be interested to hear if anyone else got this email any earlier or later than this?

*even without the notification email, the loan still filled up within 1 minute :ohmy:

[myles]

Arrived in my inbox @ 3:22pm... (gmail)

[Saamee]

I think I know what's happening now. Randomly logged in at 3:18pm and there was a $3250 B1 loan listed!*

The notification email didn't come in until 3:29pm! So I guess the emails are broken for at least some investors. I would be interested to hear if anyone else got this email any earlier or later than this?

*even without the notification email, the loan still filled up within 1 minute :ohmy:

I'm with Yahoo Mail... And yes since New Year the Emails have been very badly delayed ( Mobile & Laptop Yahoo Pop3 Emails )

Really has not assisted my investing - as I keep missing out :(

[Kelvin]

Thanks myles and Saamee. I have sent an email to LC support detailing the issue.

Btw, i am using Gmail

[Bjauck]

Agree with your logic, however if the B1/B2 10% flex loans weren't available, you'd be forced to consider the 25% flex against the other P2P and investment options.

Not quite sure that agree on avoiding B2 loans. There is no certainty a recession will hit in the next year, coupled with the (albeit limited) historical data from Lending Club from 2007 and 2008, that demonstrate small positive returns from A-C grades (without any security). Do you view B2 as more risky then a Lending Club (or for that matter Harmoney) unsecured loan?
I haven't done statistical analysis but I would treat B2 as a Harmoney c1-c3.
Although a recesssion is not a certainty I would say international and local conditions are not as rosy as they once were, so the business cycle is maturing.
Risk tolerance and ability to absorb capital write-offs may also depend on your tax circumstances (whether or not you can claim deductions for capital write-offs). On that basis it may effect retail investors willingness to undertake greater risk.

So in the next recession, if you are able to deduct loan write-offs that could make a material difference to your net returns.

[Bjauck]

Thanks myles and Saamee. I have sent an email to LC support detailing the issue.

Btw, i am using Gmail I use gmail too...and have been able to login immediately recently. When I do, even the bigger loans (apart from those charging 25% flex) have gone.

I know it sounds cynical but are the big investors moneyed up and able to take first dibs again?

[darrenc]

I use Google G Suite (business Gmail). The LC emails arrive within a minute of being sent. This is typical for a good email service as it's not checking every second.
I have an automated sequence that logs me in quite quickly.
Occasionally I'll be very early to get into a B1 and the majority is still remaining to be invested.
It's virtually impossible to get into a B2 of around $3k or less - it seems someone is using automation and taking big chunks, possibly $2000 for the first bite then repeating the order with a few hundred dollars and so on until they have all or the majority of the loan. I've seen loans drop several thousand at a time (I've watched loans by continually refreshing the page to see how quickly they disappear)
If I was going to do it, I would simply poll the page every 30-60 seconds and watch for changes then automatically take the order. To ensure I got all the loan, I'd probably run several parallel accounts all using some kind of scraper, just to reduce the suspiciousness of one account always getting the majority of a loan.
Having said that, I really don't think LC cares at all that someone is using software. They just want to fill the loan. Until they get to a point where there are more loans than investors and some loans don't get filled because people are frustrated with the system, there's no reason for them to change this.

[Saamee]

I have an automated sequence that logs me in quite quickly.



I would be interested to hear more from you about what you have set up here?

Is using in Windows 10?

Rgds

[darrenc]

I would be interested to hear more from you about what you have set up here?

Is using in Windows 10?

Rgds

Android - it's simple. I saved a shortcut to the phone's screen with the password saved in Chrome. I click the icon which opens the website in Chrome and fills in the username and password automatically, click sign in, click loan listings. It takes less than 5 seconds. On Windows, I have a shortcut in the browser bar - same deal and no need for anything more complex.

[Bjauck]

I think I know what's happening now. Randomly logged in at 3:18pm and there was a $3250 B1 loan listed!*

The notification email didn't come in until 3:29pm! So I guess the emails are broken for at least some investors. I would be interested to hear if anyone else got this email any earlier or later than this?

*even without the notification email, the loan still filled up within 1 minute :ohmy: It may make a difference however I am not sure but have you checked to make sure That your mail app has background app refresh turned on (in IOS - I am not sure what the term used would be in other operating systems).

[Kelvin]

It may make a difference however I am not sure but have you checked to make sure That your mail app has background app refresh turned on (in IOS - I am not sure what the term used would be in other operating systems).

Im getting push notifications from the Gmail app, as well as using the Gmail web app. There is no difference between the two, both getting the LC emails very late. I think it is an issue on the LC side, perhaps their email gateway being very slow. Extremely frustrating!!!

[Saamee]

Arrived in my inbox @ 3:22pm... (gmail)

The below Loan I saw via the Website and got a Slice of at 13:51

Still NO Email notification to Win 10 Laptop and Android Yahoo Mail App

10255

[Saamee]

Notification just came in NOW @ 14:01 - A 10 Minute delay.

[Bjauck]

My IOS Gmail app receives emails within seconds from other people using different operating systems and emailing programs.

Perhaps the big corporate lender has a professional email app coupled with custom-tailored automated scripts for investing in new loans on Lending Crowd. If they do I suspect they ignore the loans incurring 25% flex.

[myles]

Notification just came in NOW @ 14:01 - A 10 Minute delay.

Arrived in my inbox @ 13:57.

I have to wonder if it's not something as simple as alphabetical order of addresses and processing time of the mail server.

Whatever the cause, it really shows up another failing in the Lending Crowd system :(

[Kelvin]

This time i got the email at 13:53. Only a 2 min delay!

[PennyPicker]

Arrived in my inbox @ 13:57.

I have to wonder if it's not something as simple as alphabetical order of addresses and processing time of the mail server.

Whatever the cause, it really shows up another failing in the Lending Crowd system :(

That's what I'm thinking too @myles. Someone who is experiencing prolonged delay times should check; what letter does their email address/account name start with.

It kind of relies on their server logic taking a path like; foreach customer where email notifications are enabled, send email. Is this result set already sorted, by what, or do they sort the email list before processing? And then, just how quickly does their code send the emails... there's a lot of factors in play.

[Saamee]

[QUOTE=PennyPicker;743744]That's what I'm thinking too @myles. Someone who is experiencing prolonged delay times should check; what letter does their email address/account name start with.
/QUOTE]

Well then..... I best change my name to Aaron Aardvak :)

But seriously, I have added my wife's account onto the Email Alerts...

She is with Gmail - Wait and See if there is a difference.

I'll report later on this week ahead.

[Kelvin]

Response from LC regarding delayed emails.

"With the release of the referral program we made some slight changes to the order of the dispatch of emails which is now a shuffle order - sometimes you will be near top of the list and sometimes near bottom. The reason for this change is that we believe this method is fairer to all investors whether signed up since inception or new investors.

With the continued work behind the scenes to increase loan listing numbers, we hope in time this will alleviate the frustration you are having by offering more investment opportunities."

[Saamee]

Response from LC regarding delayed emails.

"With the release of the referral program we made some slight changes to the order of the dispatch of emails which is now a shuffle order - sometimes you will be near top of the list and sometimes near bottom. The reason for this change is that we believe this method is fairer to all investors whether signed up since inception or new investors.

With the continued work behind the scenes to increase loan listing numbers, we hope in time this will alleviate the frustration you are having by offering more investment opportunities."

@kelvin > Appreciate you sharing your reply :)

[icyfire]

My first loan written off on LC

Loan note LN000-057-737 has been written off. 76% of my principle in that loan was lost which brings into question the value of vehicles that are commonly used as loan security.

It appears that in a bid to increase loans availability the loan quality is dropping fast. Another loan (LN000-050-756) is in collection currently.

[Saamee]

My first loan written off on LC

Loan note LN000-057-737 has been written off. 76% of my principle was lost which brings into question the value of vehicles that are commonly used as loan security.

It appears that in a bid to increase loans availability the loan quality is dropping fast. Another loan (LN000-050-756) is in collection currently.

With 76% of your Principle written off by YOUR investment in just ( 1 ) ONE loan - asks the question "Just how diversified were you"?

This you have to think about..

[myles]

76% of that one loan I suspect?

[icyfire]

With 76% of your Principle written off by YOUR investment in just ( 1 ) ONE loan - asks the question "Just how diversified were you"?

This you have to think about..

New investors would find it very difficult to diversify investing in LC as the very few loans that there are disappear in seconds. Previously some people thought that loan write-offs didn't occur on LC. But now the write-offs are coming fast.

PS: 76% of my principle in that particular loan was lost

[humvee]

My first loan written off on LC

Loan note LN000-057-737 has been written off. 76% of my principle in that loan was lost which brings into question the value of vehicles that are commonly used as loan security.

It appears that in a bid to increase loans availability the loan quality is dropping fast. Another loan (LN000-050-756) is in collection currently.

This loan is also in collection currently

LN000-063-992 B2 Personal 60 months 19.10% 10% $50.00 04/04/2018 $2.58 $3.53 02/07/2019

[darrenc]

I've gone from no loans in collection to 3 in the last 2 months
LN000-050-751 B2 Personal 36 months 18.74% 10% $100.00 17/10/2017 $22.77 $15.67 15/07/2019
LN000-054-905 B1 Personal 60 months 14.79% 10% $150.00 30/11/2017 $13.28 $14.46 28/05/2019
LN000-064-015 B2 Personal 60 months 19.10% 10% $100.00 04/04/2018 $5.17 $7.05 02/07/2019

The loans are going so quickly that there's no time to evaluate them. I just got into a B1 that was $15k (only just). The email took 300 seconds to deliver, which is a joke. The last 3 emails have all taken over 150 seconds to deliver and I've missed out.
LC's mail server must either be really crap or they have tens of thousands of investors in the mail queue.

I'm back up to over $1000 sitting in the kitty.

[Darchie]

My initial thought was I liked to see property as security. However I asked LC what did they actually mean by property (as could mean a fridge, sofa or push bike!) But LC assured me it's a house. So next question I could not get any answer from LC. Has anyone else defined the following:

Is an instrument; as in a second, third or whatever mortgage registered onto the Title.
If so; Good ... BUT HOW could LC collection ever be successfully completed, in their specified period:- in a situation where the first Mortgagee is Happy As?... It's my understanding that any party other than the first Mortgagee Has Pretty Much No say or hope of getting anything much.....

Who has thoughts on: Just how good is property as security to us LC investors?

[icyfire]

If a borrower used their property (house) as loan security, can LC force that borrower to sell the property if the borrower has defaulted on their loan?

[Darchie]

My experience would say no... because LC will not be holding a first mtg over property ... I'm surprised no one has come in with any comments to my above post...

I do try to capture an image of loan details but, not always possible.
Has anyone got a copy of the loan details of my latest write-off ...
It was B2 Business loan 60 mths @19.75% with10% flex opened 28/12/2017 closed 17/01/2019
For me I invested $200 but only $48.20 Principal has been received ...

So considering this loan had guarantors (which legally gives not only business guarantee but private as well) I'm thinking much more should have been recoverable. Be extremely interesting to see the details if anyone has a copy of them.

I do wonder if LC have loosened up their standards and started accepting more riskier applicants!

[joker]

My first loan written off on LC

Loan note LN000-057-737 has been written off. 76% of my principle in that loan was lost which brings into question the value of vehicles that are commonly used as loan security.

It appears that in a bid to increase loans availability the loan quality is dropping fast. Another loan (LN000-050-756) is in collection currently.

The problem with vehicles as security is that if the car has been raced, rallied & rolled, by the time it is repossessed it may be worth next to nothing. Even if it was insured, should it be pranged when the driver has been drinking or perhaps after the WOF has expired the insurance won't pay out so we the lenders miss out.

[joker]

If a borrower used their property (house) as loan security, can LC force that borrower to sell the property if the borrower has defaulted on their loan?

Short answer is yes but it's a very lengthy process that can take a year or more and any money received is firstly used to pay out the 1st mortgagee. By the time legal costs, agent's fees and unpaid/penalty interest and costs due to the 1st mortgagee are paid out, dependent on the owners equity in the property, there may be little if any left over for the 2nd mortgagee.

[icyfire]

Short answer is yes but it's a very lengthy process that can take a year or more and any money received is firstly used to pay out the 1st mortgagee. By the time legal costs, agent's fees and unpaid/penalty interest and costs due to the 1st mortgagee are paid out, dependent on the owners equity in the property, there may be little if any left over for the 2nd mortgagee.
In other words, it's almost a false sense of security investing in loans that have property/vehicle as security.

[icyfire]

I do wonder if LC have loosened up their standards and started accepting more riskier applicants!
LC are trying hard to increase the number of loans to meet the investors demand and LC needs to ensure that the loans quality is not dropping. Perhaps greed is setting in and if that's the case then the trust in the platform will suffer in the long term. i could be wrong and only time will tell.

[Saamee]

LC Website Outage....

This is the longest Outage that I can remember in 37 Months....

Went down at Midnight Tuesday with NO account activity updates.

[Saamee]

LC Website Outage....

This is the longest Outage that I can remember in 37 Months....

Went down at Midnight Tuesday with NO account activity updates.

LC Website has now been back up again, about 30 minutes ago. :)

[Saamee]

Only because I was "At the Screen" I was abel to get into the attached loan today.

It took 6 minutes for the 1st Email alert and the 2nd LC account still has NO Email alert!

10280

[Saamee]

A reasonable number of loans have come through today...

Managed to get into 3 loans that I wanted to....

BUT you do have to be sitting in front of the computer screen to get them!

[Bjauck]

A reasonable number of loans have come through today...

Managed to get into 3 loans that I wanted to....

BUT you do have to be sitting in front of the computer screen to get them! I have been on the laptop all day today and even so they were all invested in when I looked. You have to have an email address at the top of their priority list too.

It is a very unsatisfactory way of presenting loans to investors when the current system means that investors have little chance of being able to invest if they want to spend time to peruse the loan details prior to investing.

[Saamee]

It is a very unsatisfactory way of presenting loans to investors when the current system means that investors have little chance of being able to invest if they want to spend time to peruse the loan details prior to investing.

Yes. Agreed... for us Investors...

However for LC... All is working = Loans are being Filled.... Very Quickly!

[CR_111]

That's it for me. It's just not worth the time clicking on Lending Crowd emails promising new loans. Even if I take less than 5 seconds from receiving the email, a $20,000 loan is already gone.

[mccollr]

That's it for me. It's just not worth the time clicking on Lending Crowd emails promising new loans. Even if I take less than 5 seconds from receiving the email, a $20,000 loan is already gone.


Me too. Gets so frustrating. It took me over two years to get $40k invested and will take a while to get that out. This is no longer investing as you have no time to have a look at the loans. But what really Pi....s me off is that when they banned the auto investor software only the honest ones complied and they are still being used with no repercussions.

[Bjauck]

Me too. Gets so frustrating. It took me over two years to get $40k invested and will take a while to get that out. This is no longer investing as you have no time to have a look at the loans. But what really Pi....s me off is that when they banned the auto investor software only the honest ones complied and they are still being used with no repercussions. I wonder if eventually the only ”peers” left on the investor/lender side will be larger corporate entities? Would that then still be in keeping with the spirit and intent of P2P vehicles?

[icyfire]

P2P lending is now misleading as most loans are filled by wholesale investors on both LC and Harmoney. Only Squirrel Money is purely for retail investors, for now.

[Darchie]

Me too. Gets so frustrating. It took me over two years to get $40k invested and will take a while to get that out. This is no longer investing as you have no time to have a look at the loans. But what really Pi....s me off is that when they banned the auto investor software only the honest ones complied and they are still being used with no repercussions.

I agree with you about only the honest ones have complied ... In the past I've been keen to spend all this extra time trying to get loans. But have over the past few weeks realised my time is far better spent elsewhere..... So I basically give up as well ....

[Gill]

There has been a rise of new loan listings on LC in the last two days, the majority of referred loans with 25% fee though. It will interesting to see if the supply remains like this. I managed to get into 7 loans since Monday

[Saamee]

Fellow LC Investors!

Today LC released 2 x Loans onto the LC platform for us Investors...

However today I received NO Email Alerts form LC.

Just wondering who else may be starting to think that they are NOT receiving All and Every Email Alert form LC???

[leesal]

Fellow LC Investors!

Today LC released 2 x Loans onto the LC platform for us Investors...

However today I received NO Email Alerts form LC.

Just wondering who else may be starting to think that they are NOT receiving All and Every Email Alert form LC???

No emails for me too, and none today either :(

Logging in there are two loans up at the moment - seem like relatively good ones and aren't going that quick.

[Saamee]

No emails for me too, and none today either :(

Logging in there are two loans up at the moment - seem like relatively good ones and aren't going that quick.

@leesal - Appreciate your update.

Have reported this to LC - no reply yet!

[Darchie]

I didn't receive any text notification for these two loans either

[Gill]

I received notifications for both loans last one at 2.20pm

I am using Gmail, have you checked spam folder?

[leesal]

I received notifications for both loans last one at 2.20pm

I am using Gmail, have you checked spam folder?

Must have been fixed now. I've received 3 notification this afternoon. In addition to that there were (at least) 3 loans on the market this morning. One of them was a $60k B1 business loan and on the market for a good 3 hours.

[RMJH]

Maybe the auto trading is triggered by the email notification.....

[humvee]

Does any one have a record what kind of security was on LN000-063-992


"Loan note LN000-063-992 has been written off. No distributable amount could be collected in the collection process. The principal balance on LN000-063-992 was $47.42 meaning a $47.42 principal write off has been made to your account."

[Soolaimon]

Does any one have a record what kind of security was on LN000-063-992


"Loan note LN000-063-992 has been written off. No distributable amount could be collected in the collection process. The principal balance on LN000-063-992 was $47.42 meaning a $47.42 principal write off has been made to your account."




Can't help you with 063-992 but 063-995 has also been written off with a much larger loss (for me $150 invested $7.74 paid) no recovery costs.
I am now more than happy that I have been in full withdrawal mode now for the last 2 months.

[jallison]

Seems referrals outnumber ordinary lending crowd loans Lending crowd can't be doing a very good job chasing loans; however any loans are better than none

[Gill]

Do we know if LC lends money themselves as well before the loans hit the market? They did raise some money not long ago

[Saamee]

Do we know if LC lends money themselves as well before the loans hit the market? They did raise some money not long ago

No. Not before the loans hit the market.

Yes, after the loans are on the board and only of the loans remain unfilled before the expiry date \ time.

Then they pick up the remaining funding required.

Are you referring to the Email looking for funding for Finance Direct??? ( this went out to all LC customers )

[Gill]

Yes Finance Direct.

Their loan activity picked up a bit with referral loans but seems to have gone quite again.

[Saamee]

2 x Massive loans hanging around on the LC Loan board.....

10480

[Bjauck]

2 x Massive loans hanging around on the LC Loan board.....

10480

If I understand it it correctly the Lending Crowd investor/lenders take on all the default risk.

Does a whopping 25% flex charge on an A1 note, with the lender taking all the default risk, make investing in such a loan unappealing.

With these 25% flex loans, as the Lending Crowd investors take all the risk, What is the incentive for the “partners” to ensure that they organise loans to credit-worthy borrowers?

If the incentive for the “partners” is their share of the flex...would they be more interested in writing new business as oppposed to ensuring that capital is eventually returned?

[leesal]

If I understand it it correctly the Lending Crowd investor/lenders take on all the default risk.

Does a whopping 25% flex charge on an A1 note, with the lender taking all the default risk, make investing in such a loan unappealing.

With these 25% flex loans, as the Lending Crowd investors take all the risk, What is the incentive for the “partners” to ensure that they organise loans to credit-worthy borrowers?

If the incentive for the “partners” is their share of the flex...would they be more interested in writing new business as oppposed to ensuring that capital is eventually returned?

Its LC and our job whether to write the risk. The partners to find the business.

The 25% A1 note was fully written, so appears not unappealing.

[Saamee]

Logging in there are two loans up at the moment - seem like relatively good ones and aren't going that quick.

[Gill]

You don't see this often, 25% flex making it unappealing...

10484

[Saamee]

You don't see this often, 25% flex making it unappealing...

10484

Still far better than ANY Term Deposit Rate anywhere else offered in NZ!!

[Bjauck]

Still far better than ANY Term Deposit Rate anywhere else offered in NZ!! How is the capital repayment default and charge off rate tracking with Lending Crowd?

[Saamee]

How is the capital repayment default and charge off rate tracking with Lending Crowd?

TBH I do not have a clue!

[Saamee]

Has anyone else noticed a mid month change in the LC RAR's?

This morning mine are different ( higher! ) than at on the 01st of the month...

[leesal]

Has anyone else noticed a mid month change in the LC RAR's?

This morning mine are different ( higher! ) than at on the 01st of the month...

I don't track this from day to day, so didn't notice any change.

But my arrears this week were much higher.

[andrewfreestuff]

Has anyone else noticed a mid month change in the LC RAR's?

This morning mine are different ( higher! ) than at on the 01st of the month...

Saamee, how do you see your RARs on the LC website? And also arrears. I must be blind or something... Actually I only joined last month so perhaps it doesn't show anything until after the first payments start.

[Saamee]

Saamee, how do you see your RARs on the LC website? And also arrears. I must be blind or something... Actually I only joined last month so perhaps it doesn't show anything until after the first payments start.

Your RAR is only calculated on at least 90 days of active loans....

So you will have to wait a little longer,

[Soolaimon]

Pretty quiet on this thread lately but not so on the lending platform, I think I got about 8 loans today. I notice that there are more loans up in the 30-50k mark these days. Not so much action over on Harmoney and I am still transferring funds from them to LC.

[leesal]

Anyone else having difficulty logging into Lending Crowd? Can't see any notification on their facebook page.


This site can’t be reachedlendingcrowd.co.nz’s server IP address could not be found.

[Saamee]

Anyone else having difficulty logging into Lending Crowd? Can't see any notification on their facebook page.


This site can’t be reached

lendingcrowd.co.nz’s server IP address could not be found.


No problem here ( now ) - Maybe it got cleared?

[leesal]

No problem here ( now ) - Maybe it got cleared?

Yes, all fine. LC informed about the fault on their facebook page moments after :)

[Saamee]

Lending Crowds NEW Interest Rates active from Sunday 01 st September

https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-finance/101454/lending-crowd-becomes-first-and-so-far-only-personal-loan-lender-reduce

[kiwi783]

Too good to be true?

I've just had another in collection loan closed, principal fully recovered. This is my 4th collection fully recovered with none yet not being so, off a relatively small sum invested over the last three or so years.

Other than not being able to get the loans as they are listed, and the lack of info if you don't screen grab, LendingCrowd has been fantastic. But is it too good to be true? Has anyone had a loss of principal?

[Kelvin]

I’ve had 7 write offs total, and just 3 got fully recovered

[joker]

Yes write offs do occur...10799

[kiwi783]

I've just received an email from Mara Labuschagne at lending crowd with a PDF attached titled Information Update Request. Email looks suspicious and I'm nervous of opening. Anybody else receiving similar? I'll be contacting the LC support to confirm before opening.

[Saamee]

I've just received an email from Mara Labuschagne at lending crowd with a PDF attached titled Information Update Request. Email looks suspicious and I'm nervous of opening. Anybody else receiving similar? I'll be contacting the LC support to confirm before opening.


Yes. She is Pukka and the Letter is just for AML ( Anti Money Laundering ) purposes.

We had the same here.

I think a Driving License had expired here, which probably triggered the new request.

[kiwi783]

Thanks Saamee, Good to know. The email was very generic text in the body so easily felt like the sender (even if genuine) had been hacked/virus in some way. I'll get in contact and sort out the paperwork - ho hum.
Thanks again.


Yes. She is Pukka and the Letter is just for AML ( Anti Money Laundering ) purposes.

We had the same here.

I think a Driving License had expired here, which probably triggered the new request.

[joker]

It's amazing the number of 25% interest flex loans v 10% coming on the Lending Crowd site now. The 10% loans have really dropped away. I am beginning to wonder if a Lending Crowd associated finance company is forwarding some of its loans to the Lending Crowd site. This would mean that the Lending Crowd group is getting the loan approval fee ($450ish??) and then 25% of the interest earned without carrying any risk whatsoever. Easy money - particularly if you're struggling to get depositors. If this thread is monitored by Lending Crowd I would be grateful for comment on this.

[Saamee]

OK well it's time for my 48 Month Investment Update on Lending Crowd....


Been in with LC since their very 1st loan which was issued on 21st December 2015.


Write Off Losses = TWELVE


Loans Repaid Early = 63.3%


Platform RAR = 12.84%


# of Loans Taken Out = 1284


# of Axtive Loans = 471


Current Arrears = Zero


Out of the 3 x P2P Platforms I have actively invested in, for me this is the easiest, most straight forward and user friendly to use.


10900

Happy P2P trading :)

[Toukshare]

OK well it's time for my 48 Month Investment Update on Lending Crowd....


Been in with LC since their very 1st loan which was issued on 21st December 2015.


Write Off Losses = TWELVE


Loans Repaid Early = 63.3%


Platform RAR = 12.84%


# of Loans Taken Out = 1284


# of Axtive Loans = 471


Current Arrears = Zero


Out of the 3 x P2P Platforms I have actively invested in, for me this is the easiest, most straight forward and user friendly to use.


10900

Happy P2P trading :)

Well done Saamee. I am a very fresh newbie on LC in comparison (started in September this year). To achieve that RAR, am I right in assuming you only invest in B1 and B2 loans? Do you find that sometimes you go through entire weeks with no loans to invest in?

I would love a few more B2s, but many of them are only for under $5,000 and last only a few seconds on the site before they are snapped up. Having said that, there was a longer lasting one yesterday for over $100,000 !

[Soolaimon]

Hi Saamee, I too have been in for over 3 years at least but my returns are not so good 11.62%. However I am totaly satisfied with that and the reason is since Penny Pickers auto thing I have spent many hours trying to invest and have only been able to mostly get the larger amount loans. The smaller B2's are obviously the ones to boost returns but then I guess they contribute more to the defaults of which I have only had 4 with a loss of $200. So all in all happy and am still transferring all withdrawals from Harmony to LC.

[Saamee]

Well done Saamee. I am a very fresh newbie on LC in comparison (started in September this year). To achieve that RAR, am I right in assuming you only invest in B1 and B2 loans? Do you find that sometimes you go through entire weeks with no loans to invest in?

I would love a few more B2s, but many of them are only for under $5,000 and last only a few seconds on the site before they are snapped up. Having said that, there was a longer lasting one yesterday for over $100,000 !

@toukshare

>> Yes I do only invest in B1's and B2's....

>> Since something like 70% of loans these days seem to be referred loans with a 25% Flex rate - RAR's are moving slowly lower as that kicks in to the RAR returns after 100 days

>> Every week I get into LC Loans - but it does vary - It is not so easy for people with a strict work routine, where as I am retired and available all day :)

[Saamee]

Hi Saamee, I too have been in for over 3 years at least but my returns are not so good 11.62%. However I am totaly satisfied with that and the reason is since Penny Pickers auto thing I have spent many hours trying to invest and have only been able to mostly get the larger amount loans. The smaller B2's are obviously the ones to boost returns but then I guess they contribute more to the defaults of which I have only had 4 with a loss of $200. So all in all happy and am still transferring all withdrawals from Harmony to LC.

@soolaimon

>> Good to hear from you again and know you are back on baord ( like you I have very little funds left in HM these days )

>> I have not seen or gone looking for stats about Loan Class and defaults but it would be good to see it confirmed if more B2's default!

[kiwi783]

I agree that LC has been best of p2p sites. I've only seen one better imo but its not NZ based, and ironically in a region that has surplus of loans to investor liquidity. My frustration with LC is lack of loans, and the bunfight to grab any that do. The rush to hit Buy without being able to take a few seconds to viewing details is not a sensible investment approach, and continuing suspicion that automated processes are still running by others to grab the loans as they get listed. A xmas wish for some sort of auto-invest even if business sense dictated preference to bigger investors.

[Saamee]

Hi Saamee, I too have been in for over 3 years at least but my returns are not so good 11.62%. However I am totaly satisfied with that and the reason is since Penny Pickers auto thing I have spent many hours trying to invest and have only been able to mostly get the larger amount loans. The smaller B2's are obviously the ones to boost returns but then I guess they contribute more to the defaults of which I have only had 4 with a loss of $200. So all in all happy and am still transferring all withdrawals from Harmony to LC.


@soolaimon ~ Just wanted to ask you how your LC Investments have travelled over the last 10 Days or so??

I have found LC has got SO busy..... I'm retired and at home but still have Failed to get into a single loan in the last 10 Days...

I am now so freustrated that I am Drawing Funds out of LC and into Harmoney!!

I do not like Harmoney and their customer dis-service at all...... but Returns are better and funnily enough, losses smaller :)

[Soolaimon]

@soolaimon ~ Just wanted to ask you how your LC Investments have travelled over the last 10 Days or so??

I have found LC has got SO busy..... I'm retired and at home but still have Failed to get into a single loan in the last 10 Days...

I am now so freustrated that I am Drawing Funds out of LC and into Harmoney!!

I do not like Harmoney and their customer dis-service at all...... but Returns are better and funnily enough, losses smaller :)

Hi Saamee LC is busy for sure and I am also retired and unless I am sitting at home with the computer on refresh it is very difficult to get loans. However, last 10 days I have managed to get 7 loans but have had 4 repaid and one reversed. Not good really, but I am still withdrawing Harmoney and after 5 years of plugging away at this P2P stuff the incentive is wearing off some so no extra funds going in now for the last year or so and not sure that I will add anything in the future either. I detect a slight rise in term deposits at the banks lately if you negotiate and find that interesting.

[darrenc]

It's interesting this thread has all-but died. Probably because it's almost impossible to get into a loan unless you're sitting in front of the computer with the page refreshing every 30 seconds (boring), or you've built a scraper and auto-invest bot (pretty easy to do and definitely worth it if you have several hundred grand to invest).

[Darchie]

I have read this thread in yonks... and do find getting anything into loans a waste of time.... way better results with my Crypto ... P2P just isn't working

[leesal]

I think LC is doing a very good job, and like the way Wayne Croad has represented the fledgling P2P market in NZ. I sincerely hope that they are able to increase their share of loans.

Regularly look at LC financials, they're a typical kiwi SME business, without the resources that corporates have at their disposal. So although we all personally may struggle to get loans, I personally wish LC all the success in their business model going forward irrespective of my own experiences/performance on their platform.

[Toukshare]

And LC is likely to become even busier if money from Harmoney comes here , as some of it will, after the 1st April when HM is no longer a P2P lender.

[Bjauck]

And LC is likely to become even busier if money from Harmoney comes here , as some of it will, after the 1st April when HM is no longer a P2P lender. Harmoney will be using money from its corporate wholesale investors to lend to the same type of borrowers. So the retail investors in the remaining true p2p companies will be chasing after fewer borrowers?

If Harmoney is to be believed, As far as retail investors are concerned it seems P2P is being finished off by the Commerce Commission.

[Saamee]

New Rates effective today, out from LC.....



11072

[Toukshare]

Rates not as good as HM, but at least they remain a true P2P lending platform...

[Soolaimon]

Checked in today to see how things are going and b... hell, 3 loans available. I know it's strange times and these loans are only filling slowly. I did'nt help much. Can't bring myself to put much in p2p just now but still tempting and whos to say that todays loans are any riskier than last years now? Everyone cautious or still investing??

[Saamee]

Checked in today to see how things are going and b... hell, 3 loans available. I know it's strange times and these loans are only filling slowly. I did'nt help much. Can't bring myself to put much in p2p just now but still tempting and whos to say that todays loans are any riskier than last years now? Everyone cautious or still investing??

Yes I see the 3 of them are still sitting there at Midday on Saturday....

Oh what a change in sentiment....

That is a 100% swing from too many Investors to too many Borrowers now!

Personally I stopped Investing in P2P over 3 weeks ago now.

Gone to Cash ( which is King at times like these )

[Soolaimon]

Good idea, I think I will follow you.

[leesal]

I'm just scaling back my investments and being more selective.

Defaults will rise. However these are much higher quality loans compared to HM. Finance Direct are also investing in these loans, they have navigated through the GFC, the security will mitigate part of the loses arising from higher default.

A year ago, I did a presentation on US P2P, and how they performed vs Shares and Real Estate during the GFC. It showed that overall during those 2 years performance was roughly break even, the higher grades made money and the poorer grades lost. Good to have liquidity, but everything not lost in P2P.

[Bjauck]

...
A year ago, I did a presentation on US P2P, and how they performed vs Shares and Real Estate during the GFC. It showed that overall during those 2 years performance was roughly break even, the higher grades made money and the poorer grades lost. Good to have liquidity, but everything not lost in P2P.

For retail investors in NZ P2P though, capital write-offs of loans are not deductible for tax. It is in times like these, that becomes very relevant.
As always DYOR.

[Toukshare]

For retail investors in NZ P2P though, capital write-offs of loans are not deductible for tax. It is in times like these, that becomes very relevant.
As always DYOR.

As you say, DYOR, as my accountants advice is that it is tax deductible if you are investing through a LTD company (rather than as an individual). In my personal circumstances, which may suit others, it is better to invest through a ltd.

[Bjauck]

As you say, DYOR, as my accountants advice is that it is tax deductible if you are investing through a LTD company (rather than as an individual). In my personal circumstances, which may suit others, it is better to invest through a ltd. Definitely subject to DYOR. I thought "retail investors" was another way of saying individual non-professional investors. I was not referring companies doing the investing.

Unlike in some other jurisdictions, In relation to "retail investors", The NZ P2P sector never bothered to get an IRD ruling on tax consequences.

[leesal]

Definitely subject to DYOR. I thought "retail investors" was another way of saying individual non-professional investors. I was not referring companies doing the investing.

Unlike in some other jurisdictions, In relation to "retail investors", The NZ P2P sector never bothered to get an IRD ruling on tax consequences.

Very good point. If defaults are 8%, thats 2.5%+ at the top bracket that isn't tax deductible. I'm able to take the tax deduction, those who can't it makes a big difference.

[Tony Two Gloves]

I wonder what would happen with this if Finance Direct folds, just had a look at their accounts for the year and they aren’t making any money. Who checks them on the quality of loans they put up and if desperate would they push harder when it’s the investors that lose? I have no money with them now but think I will avoid

[leesal]

I wonder what would happen with this if Finance Direct folds, just had a look at their accounts for the year and they aren’t making any money. Who checks them on the quality of loans they put up and if desperate would they push harder when it’s the investors that lose? I have no money with them now but think I will avoid

I looked at this a year ago, and interesting to see there FY20 results are breakeven.

Theres a few things to look at in the financials. Financial Direct holds approx 1 million in cash, its able to sustain a certain amount of loss. Operating cash flows are positive, and they made a profit in FY19. So there could be some accounting adjustments in there, maybe the adoption of IFRS16 or an increased bad debt provision.

The loans (P2P product) are ring fenced, via the FMA. And there is the requirement that Lending Crowd arrange an alternative provider in the event of receivership. It does bring the question, if that were to occur, who would pick up the book in this market. But at least the regulations are in place, to afford levels of protection.

Finally you could consider past performance, Finance Direct made it through the GFC, if I understand correctly their lending is typically secured.

[Tony Two Gloves]

Yes it is all secured loans, but second mortgages and Caveats which I suppose is better than nothing. They also have quite a few vehicle secured loans which tend to perform well. Just worries me if they have been around 20 years or so and they still cannot make money. They are the worst performer of all the NBDT's albeit there is only five or six of them now but just leads me to wonder why they are doing so badly in a market that to 31/3 was really good for most participants. I don't think I would sleep well if I was involved with this so will look for other options. Cheers

[Toasty]

I am thinking of pulling my investment in Lending Crowd. It is just too hard to secure a loan. I don't have time to refresh repeatedly in case one appears. I receive the email notification too late in most cases. Is anyone else in the same boat or am I just doing it wrong? I am averaging around 12.5% return according to my dashboard but it doesn't seem worth it for the hassle for less than $10k invested.

Edit: Or do I scale up?

[RGR367]

I am thinking of pulling my investment in Lending Crowd. It is just too hard to secure a loan. I don't have time to refresh repeatedly in case one appears. I receive the email notification too late in most cases. Is anyone else in the same boat or am I just doing it wrong? I am averaging around 12.5% return according to my dashboard but it doesn't seem worth it for the hassle for less than $10k invested.

Edit: Or do I scale up?

Thinking the same as cannot grow the investment due to scarcity of loans.

[Saamee]

I am thinking of pulling my investment in Lending Crowd. It is just too hard to secure a loan. I don't have time to refresh repeatedly in case one appears. I receive the email notification too late in most cases. Is anyone else in the same boat or am I just doing it wrong? I am averaging around 12.5% return according to my dashboard but it doesn't seem worth it for the hassle for less than $10k invested.

Edit: Or do I scale up?

I'm thinking that you got your own Answer from within your Question!

[joker]

I am thinking of pulling my investment in Lending Crowd. It is just too hard to secure a loan. I don't have time to refresh repeatedly in case one appears. I receive the email notification too late in most cases. Is anyone else in the same boat or am I just doing it wrong? I am averaging around 12.5% return according to my dashboard but it doesn't seem worth it for the hassle for less than $10k invested.

Edit: Or do I scale up?

I had $120k invested and had the same problem. Stopped investing in March as the time needed to monitor the new loans far exceeded the return. I needed to sit at the computer all day to catch them as they landed and even then missed a lot. There can be no doubt that people are using programs/crawlers to automatically invest in the loans as they land but Lending Crowd either can't or won't stop this behaviour and are uninterested in developing their own autolend app. I would love some of the investors here who are still investing successfully to divulge their apps or methods but I doubt that they will be forthcoming.

[Saamee]

I had $120k invested and had the same problem. Stopped investing in March as the time needed to monitor the new loans far exceeded the return. I needed to sit at the computer all day to catch them as they landed and even then missed a lot. There can be no doubt that people are using programs/crawlers to automatically invest in the loans as they land but Lending Crowd either can't or won't stop this behaviour and are uninterested in developing their own autolend app. I would love some of the investors here who are still investing successfully to divulge their apps or methods but I doubt that they will be forthcoming.

I manage to stay 100% invested.

It's just a case of being near a Computer or Phone and being alerted to an incoming Email.

I use Gmail Email Filters to NOT be alerted about the LC Loan Emails that I do not want.....

Good if you are retired...... If you are working away from Technology - Not a chance unless there is that very rare 50K_ loan that stays around for hours....

[Toukshare]

I had $120k invested and had the same problem. Stopped investing in March as the time needed to monitor the new loans far exceeded the return. I needed to sit at the computer all day to catch them as they landed and even then missed a lot. There can be no doubt that people are using programs/crawlers to automatically invest in the loans as they land but Lending Crowd either can't or won't stop this behaviour and are uninterested in developing their own autolend app. I would love some of the investors here who are still investing successfully to divulge their apps or methods but I doubt that they will be forthcoming.

I agree that by the time you get the email, the loan has gone. I work on my computer all day long, and have multiple screens so I have the Lending Crowd new loan page on auto-refresh every 30 seconds and so am quickly able to see new loans. But even then, the small B2s (say, under $5,000) get fully subscribed very quickly and basically I have to skim-read the loan details and invest (or not) within 30 seconds, otherwise it is too late. Obviously the bigger loans (> $20k) take longer to fill so you have more time but I find that even with those ones, the email sometimes arrives too late.

To summarise: I don't rely on the email alert.

[RMJH]

Thinking the same as cannot grow the investment due to scarcity of loans.
Same here. Hard to believe that computer trading is not still taking most of the volume.

[Toukshare]

Big changes from today with unsecured loans available.
The loan classification changes (and their associated rates), form just having A1, A2, B, B2 to A1-2-3, B1-2-3, and all of them secured or unsecured. New rates also for unsecured loans available on a 24 months basis.
Not sure whether that means we'll suddenly see lots more loans, and what the unsecured ones will look like. Will it be more like Harmoney used to be?

[Saamee]

Not to keen personally to Invest in Unsecured Loans.......

[Saamee]

OK well it's time for my 60 Month ( 5 Year ) Investment Update at Lending Crowd....


I have now been with LC since their very 1st loan, which was issued on 21st December 2015.


My Platform RAR = 12.38%


My # of Loans = TOTAL 1656 \ ACTIVE 515


My # of Loans in Default = CURRENTLY 2 ( 0.00388% of Open Loans )


This is now a mature relationship with Lending Crowd , who I see as my trusted ‘investment vehicle’ and partner

The only other thing to say is do not hesitate to call Wayne Crowd ( the Owner \ Managing Director ) he is very approachable and will always return your call.

12127

[joker]

Sammee says "The only other thing to say is do not hesitate to call Wayne Crowd ( the Owner \ Managing Director ) he is very approachable and will always return your call."

Well that's BS - I emailed Wayne and never received a reply. I got the feeling he couldn't care less...here's my email...

Hi Wayne

I’ve become very disillusioned with Lending Crowd after many successful loan investments.

The problem isn’t the quality of the loans or write-offs but the impossibility of investing.

I had $120k invested but stopped investing in March as the time needed to monitor the new loans far exceeded the return. I needed to sit at the computer all day to catch them as they landed and even then, missed a lot.

I had previously used an app specifically designed for the Lending Crowd platform, but Lending Crowd effectively banned the usage of the app (and allegedly all others).

There can be no doubt that people are using programs/crawlers to automatically invest in the loans as they land but Lending Crowd either can't or won't stop this behaviour and seem uninterested in developing their own autolend app.

I would love to start reinvesting with Lending Crowd and would appreciate your guidance on how to do this with out becoming tied to the computer all day.

Kind regards

[Soolaimon]

I agree with Joker in as much that it has been immposible to invest for the last year or so. However, just lately I have managed to secure 10 or so loans. I have spent a bit more time on the site but at the same time there does seem to be a lot more loans available. The future returns for the unsecured loans will be of interest I'm sure and I am being a little selective with them in the meantime.
And Saamee, same feelings, and now I have a bit more time I will be trying to reinvest at least all the funds withdrawn over the last 18 months.

[nztyke]

The situation is different now. Many more loans available now. The addition of unsecured loans has certainly helped but doses not account for all of the increase; there are six loans listed as I type this. Maybe increased marketing.

[nztyke]

Update: there are currently eight loans listed.

[Toukshare]

Yes, it's quite amazing. The addition of unsecured loans certainly does not explain the whole increase. Maybe it's a pre-Xmas phenomenon? I can't remember what it was like this time last year.
12139

[Tony Two Gloves]

Not to keen personally to Invest in Unsecured Loans.......
Yeah I would be careful here, the cynic in me says Finance Direct will gobble up all the good secured loans and feed the riskier unsecured ones out to investors. This is a very small operation and not a lot of loans to go around which is why investors will always be behind the Parent.

I'm still concerned this entity is not making any money, six month to Sept 20 $4k Loss -full year to March 20 $1K profit, Lending Crowd only made $62K for the last two years. They have to change something as they are finding out like Harmoney that this business model does not work - innovate or die! I will not be re investing here or buying shares in harmoney :)

[Gill]

Hey Tony, where did you get the data re profit amounts of Finance Direct and Lending Crowd?

If these figures are to go by they'll be making less money then some of the investors on their platform.

[Saamee]

Try here >> https://10083-console.memberconnex.com/Folder?Action=View%20File&Folder_id=82&File=FS%2030092020.pdf

[Saamee]

This week has got busier and busier with new loans...

That is positive to see.

[RMJH]

This week has got busier and busier with new loans...

That is positive to see.
it's so much easier to get loans these days. But why no write-offs or arrears? Seems too clean?

[Toukshare]

it's so much easier to get loans these days. But why no write-offs or arrears? Seems too clean?

I agree it seems a lot cleaner than Harmoney.
However, I do have some arrears (7 loans out of 261 active, so small %). One is 42 days overdue and has never paid anything yet so could well be my first write-off.
OTOH, Harmoney is a shocker, and their closing to new investment might have been a blessing in disguise for me, $1,000 written off in the past year (since they stopped any new peer-to-peer), it's getting to the point where I'll be lucky to get all my original investment back.

[Bjauck]

I agree it seems a lot cleaner than Harmoney.
However, I do have some arrears (7 loans out of 261 active, so small %). One is 42 days overdue and has never paid anything yet so could well be my first write-off.
OTOH, Harmoney is a shocker, and their closing to new investment might have been a blessing in disguise for me, $1,000 written off in the past year (since they stopped any new peer-to-peer), it's getting to the point where I'll be lucky to get all my original investment back.
Harmoney was mostly unsecured loans compared with Lending Crowd? Didn’t Harmoney change how they managed debt collection - maybe that was not successful.

How did Lending Crowd manage their Covid response? Perhaps they gave longer grace periods than Harmoney did and bad debts have yet to kick in.

Has Squirrel’s reserve fund taken a hit during Covid?

[DT@squirrel.co.nz]

Has Squirrel’s reserve fund taken a hit during Covid?

Hi Bjauck, I look after Squirrels P2P business. I can confirm that the Squirrel personal loan reserve fund actually increased over the last 12months. At 1/4/20 the balance was ~$506k. At 31/3/21, the balance is $580k. The coverage ratio is in excess of 4.00%. These stats are published daily on our website. All our investors continue to earn the returns we've stated on the tin. Happy to take any further questions.

[Tony Two Gloves]

Hi Bjauck, I look after Squirrels P2P business. I can confirm that the Squirrel personal loan reserve fund actually increased over the last 12months. At 1/4/20 the balance was ~$506k. At 31/3/21, the balance is $580k. The coverage ratio is in excess of 4.00%. These stats are published daily on our website. All our investors continue to earn the returns we've stated on the tin. Happy to take any further questions.
I have been quite critical of these PTP companies espically Harmoney & The Lending Crowd but I do like Squirrel, best of a bad bunch - sorry DT! I just believe there are much better investmnents around these days than funds in a P2P lender. I can't be bothered to check out if Squirell is making money or not but the other two aren't so not sure why they persist, its not as if TLC team are paying themselves well either so I'm convinced it is just a bad business model apart from shifting the risk to investors.

[Soolaimon]

The last few posts here indicate investors are not having any trouble securing loans now as has been the case early days. I have had no trouble reinvesting and being selective, ie. no unsecured loans. However I have noticed a considerable increase in loan amounts and a big percentage being for debt. consolidation. I try to avoid them and pick others such as vehicle purchase, house renovations etc. Anyone else concerned about the increasing number of these debt. loans ?. I mast add that I have not had any write offs now for a long time. (Should not have said that)

[Toukshare]

The last few posts here indicate investors are not having any trouble securing loans now as has been the case early days. I have had no trouble reinvesting and being selective, ie. no unsecured loans. However I have noticed a considerable increase in loan amounts and a big percentage being for debt. consolidation. I try to avoid them and pick others such as vehicle purchase, house renovations etc. Anyone else concerned about the increasing number of these debt. loans ?. I mast add that I have not had any write offs now for a long time. (Should not have said that)

I have witnessed the same things as you. More loans (in part due to now having unsecured loans), which gives us more choice as to what we pick and what we ignore.
I am also uneasy about debt consolidation loans that are for a big amount (for me anything over $40,000). But there are enough of other types to keep me fully invested.
I haven't had issues with unsecured loans yet (to be honest, if the security is a car, then AFAIK, it might as well be unsecured).
2 years with LC, and one write-off.
(2 years with HM and 11 write-offs)

[Soolaimon]

I have been in for 5 years and had 5 write offs totaling $218. Invested in 946 loans of which 646 have been paid off. I am happy enough with that amount of write offs but some of those early paybacks don't help us much and cause extra time reinvesting. Happy at the moment and their recent email re their performance in first 5 years was reasonably encouraging.

[Bjauck]

I have been quite critical of these PTP companies espically Harmoney & The Lending Crowd but I do like Squirrel, best of a bad bunch - sorry DT! I just believe there are much better investmnents around these days than funds in a P2P lender. .... In an environment in which Treasury and the Reserve Bank are forecasting zero growth in house prices, from an investor's point of view, which investments do you currently think are better than investing through the platforms operated by Squirrel and Lending Crowd? What do you think their risk/reward profiles are?

[Saamee]

In an environment in which Treasury and the Reserve Bank are forecasting zero growth in house prices, from an investor's point of view, which investments do you currently think are better than investing through the platforms operated by Squirrel and Lending Crowd? What do you think their risk/reward profiles are?

I am now ACTIVELY Removing all Returned Funds from Lending Crowd and Harmoney...

Why?

Absolutely nothing wrong with either P2P platform.

However 'My Own Crystal Ball' tells me that with rising Inflation and a Falling LC RAR ( reflecting the lowered platform Interest Rates ) that when my RAR in 4 months time reaches 10%.... Tax @ 33% equates to just a 6.7% return.

Well REAL Inflation will be around 6.7% by the years end ( although the government may not admit that! )

So all net proceeds are being turned into 'Allocated Gold and Silver'.....

Wealth preservation in a period of high inflationary times ahead.

Just Sold my NZ house too at what I consider is 'The Peak'...... waiting for the Stock Market crash, and then in turn the World housing market crash.....

[Bjauck]

It sounds high risk to transfer all your investments to metals. With your NZ house sold and net proceeds transferred to precious metals, it begs the question as to how you will pay for accommodation, unless you live with family or your salary can now stretch to cover the accommodation your house provided.

The CPI has been an understatement of inflation for decades - as afaik non-consumer items such as house prices and land prices have largely been excluded. The taxation system in relation fixed interest investments in inflationary times certainly acts as a disincentive to hold such investments.

[Saamee]

OK well it's time for my 5.5 Years Investment Update on Lending Crowd....


Been in with LC since their very 1st loan which was issued on 21st December 2015.



Loan Early Repayments = 65.9%


Platform RAR = 12.07%


# of Loans = TOTAL = 2,108 \ ACTIVE = 718


Arrears = CURRENTLY x 2


This is now the Only P2P Platform I have active investments in, I find that it is the easiest, most straight forward and user friendly to use.


LC have grown with me as I have grown with LC.


Everyone investing in P2P is here for the same reason - to increase our earnings.


I am just keeping an eye on inflation, as my RAR comes down ( expected to hit 10% in a few months time ), @ 33% Tax, when Inflation gets to 6.7% the returns will not be making any money!!


Happy P2P trading :)

[Gill]

The loan quantity has increased significantly in the last 12 months. I have no problem in investing the funds I want to invest due to abundant supply. At the point of typing there are 8 available loans.

However, it seems like LC are turning a blind eye to some of the information supplied by the borrowers, maybe to increase the loan supply?

Loan 1: House with mortgage in Nelson but declared outgoings are $261 a month or $60 a week.

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=6725d4982e&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4560628835937474168&th=17935ce30b9c6356&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ8wEazFnsLUa3uJpow9PpyRG7SQX-HtTAz4bfwnWX4KpZHmjDyCok_iFnLTG9ZY3XphZS6hX-SdxkdTwxfd4z5I3lrvgL5_hayPddGX_yC4_T0Gno3pEG9hpl4&disp=emb&realattid=ii_ko9klr2o0



Loan 2: Someone is renting in Auckland and monthly outgoings are $525 surely you cannot survive on $121 per week.

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=6725d4982e&attid=0.2&permmsgid=msg-a:r-4560628835937474168&th=17935ce30b9c6356&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ_uXGAveoU5YvC4UHK5G0zrxIBTDUl1VsiZeBi cPPUeC8zvo4djL5yyiayNlLK_p5WA27-jbR9CFNK-6_vrI99LmBlK4pIZEmFu9wbs_0Ghahp3thosyay4rFI&disp=emb&realattid=ii_ko9kmg3m1

Loans like these are starting to worry me a bit. I emailed LC asking for a clarification weeks ago, however no one replied back.

[Gill]

1261812617

[RMJH]

It may be they get challenged later in the process before any money is advanced. But thanks, good spots. These are certainly challenging times to be an investor!

[Saamee]

WOW!! Was really surprised that 77 year olds are taking out 3 Year Debt Consolidation loans with NO Death cover - No Thanks!!

12691

[joker]

WOW!! Was really surprised that 77 year olds are taking out 3 Year Debt Consolidation loans with NO Death cover - No Thanks!!

12691
No security + no assets = no repayment is borrower passes

[Tony Two Gloves]

WOW!! Was really surprised that 77 year olds are taking out 3 Year Debt Consolidation loans with NO Death cover - No Thanks!!

12691
I think death cover stops at age 65 - to high a risk for the insurance company.

[Tony Two Gloves]

I keep coming back to consider TLC for investment but see their financial performance has deteriorated even further with Finance Direct making a loss of $100K for the year and Lending Crowd only funding $3M for the year. As per previous posters have mentioned it doesn't appear the loans are being fact checked with real cost of living allowances etc and that is a concern. This with them not making money will keep me on the sidelines a bit longer if not permanently!

[joker]

I stopped investing with LC over a year ago - my remaining loans are performing well (much better than Harmony) but the big problems for me were...

1. Too hard to get invested (15 months ago)
2. Too many 25% interest flex loans

I would be even less likely to invest now because of the number of unsecured loans and what I consider too low interest rates for the risk. Currently investing in shared first mortgages (6 - 12 month terms) at around 7%. Lesser return, lesser work and hopefully lesser risk too.

[peetter]

A look from the other side. I am thinking about buying a used car. As I don't want to cash on other investments, I was thinking I'd get a loan. LendingCrowd advertising rates from 5%. Credit score 890, never missed payment in my life and best offer I could get is 11% unsecured, 9% secured.
I will not secure a loan for 1-2 years against a house and never will I ever pay somebody 11% interest rate. The interest rates are ridiculous. So now I'll just wait for a year and buy a car in cash. I believe there's a lot of reliable people with enough money who will just decide not to get a loan under these conditions.

[malreid]

Earlier in the year I invested with TLC, Squirrel and Zagga to get some worthwhile returns compared to money sitting with the bank. TLC started out OK, with several opportunities listed almost everyday and the returns have been good with a number of secured A and B 1/2 grade secured loans. However I agree with joker's post above.

Most opportunities are now coming through as B or C 2/3 grade unsecured personal at 25% flex, and loan value has also been declining so they get snapped up within a few hours of being listed or even sooner.

Before turning on email notifications at the beginning of the month I hadn't seen any new listings since about July even though I was checking in weekly or more often when reinvestment came due. In comparison, Zagga and Squirrel have proven to be much more liquid with no 'down time' between investments, while also providing a decent return with the additional comfort of secured loans. I'll be pulling my funds from TLC as investments fall due.

[Saamee]

With Inflation running at 6+% ( cough cough ) and most LC loans offering about 10% minus 25% flex, these days..... After Tax the true return is now almost zero.

As funds now get repaid - I too am withdrawing every cent and investing elsewhere.

Do not get me wrong, I really really like LC and they have served me very very well for 6 years, but perhaps now with changing external financial variables, for me their time with re-investing is finished for now.

[Toukshare]

It's a valid viewpoint. Everyone will have their own strategies, and different "tipping points".

For me, inflation is one factor when considering return on investment, but just as important is "where else would I put my money". Inflation might be 6% (those of us who pay rates, buy building materials, employ tradespeople and shop at supermarkets will know it has been at least that for a while!), but it doesn't mean that bank term deposits have caught up: TD rates are still very very low.
Managed funds returns have been good, but only partly impacted by inflation - I wouldn't say their returns have dramatically increased in the past 2 years. So while I do have money in managed funds as part of my diverse portfolio (same with NZ property), I feel that P2P still has a part to play in that portfolio.

I think a good loan of around 11-12% with 10% going to LC is still a very productive investment. Anything below 10% at 25% fee, or below 8% at 10% fee, is not worthwhile for me, I do agree on that.

I treat P2P like those managed funds actually: where in funds, you split between conservative, medium and risky, I do the same with loans. Each has a return in line with the risk. I have to say the risks with LC are a lot lower than what they were with Harmoney.

[Mike64]

I'm generally very happy with LC.

The unsecured loans are however a concern to me as my areas rate in unsecured loans stands at 9-10% with 90% Cx loans and 4 Cx loans written off already. I'm not taking them since 2-3 month anymore until I'm down to 1% of my total invest from currently 5.1%. Then I'll maybe get into a few handpicked ones of B3s max and with 10% flex only.
Another concern is the upper limit of $20,000 for them. I find that limit ways too high, I would probably accept an upper limit of $5,000-$10,000

[Saamee]

New RAR's out today @ LC.

Both the wife's and mine have lowered and morphed into the same rate now @ 11.81%

This was expected to happen, 6 months back now.

[kiwi783]

Agree totally. LC has been great, and it's recovery rates are best in class (globally - I invest P2P in several places around the world). It has always stunk that they shut off the auto invest program that was available for a while but otherwise top notch. But as Samee pointed out - the returns are basically zero after tax, inflation and risk!.
The question is where is elsewhere? This far out the risk curve is a young persons game!
Savers of the world we are being wrung out then hung out to dry!


With Inflation running at 6+% ( cough cough ) and most LC loans offering about 10% minus 25% flex, these days..... After Tax the true return is now almost zero.

As funds now get repaid - I too am withdrawing every cent and investing elsewhere.

Do not get me wrong, I really really like LC and they have served me very very well for 6 years, but perhaps now with changing external financial variables, for me their time with re-investing is finished for now.

[Saamee]

I recently have become concerned many current \ future Borrowers will get approved \ take out a loan with NO intention of repaying anything..... Ever.

As interest rates rise, Mandates force people out of employment, Businesses struggle with cash flow - I fear loans being taken out by individuals ( with or without security ) with a cavalier attitude to the future.

I hope I am wrong..... very very wrong...... but!

[kiwical]

I recently have become concerned many current \ future Borrowers will get approved \ take out a loan with NO intention of repaying anything..... Ever.

As interest rates rise, Mandates force people out of employment, Businesses struggle with cash flow - I fear loans being taken out by individuals ( with or without security ) with a cavalier attitude to the future.

I hope I am wrong..... very very wrong...... but! I think you're being a bit pessimistic. I have 99 active loans on LC. None written off, 1 in collection. 71 closed paid off. They do checks before approving a loan I'm sure. In fact they would be required to do so by law. Will that stop every maverick? No. But I'm confident history has shown that they are very good at filtering out those cavaliers. Stick to smaller investments over a large number of loans and you can't really go wrong.

[Muse]

Just curious for anyone out there that still has p2p loans outstanding. Can anyone talk to the interest income as a % of your loan you have been getting and how that has changed over the last 2 years? IE has it come down over the last two years, bottom out and starting to rise again? Or was it fixed at the time it was leant out and remained stable?

[Saamee]

Just curious for anyone out there that still has p2p loans outstanding. Can anyone talk to the interest income as a % of your loan you have been getting and how that has changed over the last 2 years? IE has it come down over the last two years, bottom out and starting to rise again? Or was it fixed at the time it was leant out and remained stable?

Every loan you invest in at LC the Initial Interest rate is the set and locked in rate for the whole duration of that loan ( be it 3 years or 5 years )

In the last 3 years the rates offered to borrower and thus lender have been coming down as competitor rates have also come down.

At some point I would expect LC's loan interest rates to start to rise again in the current environment - not sure when though!

[Toukshare]

Just curious for anyone out there that still has p2p loans outstanding. Can anyone talk to the interest income as a % of your loan you have been getting and how that has changed over the last 2 years? IE has it come down over the last two years, bottom out and starting to rise again? Or was it fixed at the time it was leant out and remained stable?

Just to confirm and add to what Saamee said, LC used to offer 4 categories of loans (A1, A2, B1, B2) right up to Nov 2020. When I joined in Sept-2019, it went from the lowest A1 at 6.89% to the highest B2 at 18.20%. They later revised these rates downwards from 6.49% to 16.99%.
In Nov 2020, they changed to the current model A1-S to C3-U with rates going from 5.03% to 20.26%.

I have a feeling there were more loans in the 14-15% region in the old rating system (A1 to B2) than there are now. It certainly is quite rare now to come across a loan over 16%. If anything, my average % has gone down over the past 2 years. But this might be personal: I might have favoured higher risk loans in my early years.

[Mike64]

I think Samee is very realistic on things happening which I can confirm still sitting on over 800 loans (more going out then in lately) with 12 written off, 11 in collection and 44 in areas.
However the recovery of written off loans was not too bad at all so far with <$500 lost incl. recovery cost, $200 of them from unsecured currently sitting on 4.5% of them over my portfolio and $220T invested.

Yeah, inflation is a big issue. No half way secure invest option would be capable to cope with those recent retail price rises. In (yet European) war times the stock market would be a no go anyway either. As Samee said it very right, people are loosing their jobs for mentioned reasons despite huge labor demand and loans are increasingly going into areas.

I'm running a 9.5 - 10% reported NAR which is my goal and I am very happy with it.

[Saamee]

Brace yourself Sheila...!!

https://www.interest.co.nz/personal-finance/115230/credit-bureau-centrix-sees-softening-demand-consumer-debt-arrears-personal

[kiwical]

I struggle with choosing loans in my head with flex.
Is there an easy trick to it?
Not that there seems many 10% flex at higher rates anyway but for example which would be better?

A: 13% loan with 10% flex
B: 15% loan with 25% flex

[Saamee]

I struggle with choosing loans in my head with flex.
Is there an easy trick to it?
Not that there seems many 10% flex at higher rates anyway but for example which would be better?

A: 13% loan with 10% flex
B: 15% loan with 25% flex

It is only one criteria to consider.

I would favour Security over anything else ( only invest in loans with Property as Security - especially in the current climate )

If you have Funds to invest with LC then whatever rate you get, will ALWAYS be better than anything you can secure at a main street bank!

[Toukshare]

Saamee is right in the sense that Flex by itself doesn't indicate a better or worse loan. Other criteria will tell you more about the quality of the loan.

LC helpfully tell you the final rate, once Flex is applied. For example, there is currently a 16.64% loan with 25% flex, and the flex-adjusted rate is 12.48%.
In your example, a 13% loan with 10% flex means a true, flex-adjusted rate of 11.7% (before tax)
While a 15% loan with 25% flex means a flex-adjusted rate of 11.25% - so the above is slightly better.

[Saamee]

Looking for more proof on Bad Loans??

Steer well clear of the Unsecured loans!!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128479669/about-400000-borrowers-behind-on-a-loan-payment-after-5-rise-in-arrears

[Mike64]

One thing I will probably never understand during my remaining lifetime:

If you have an income between $4,000 and $8.000 with $3.000 outgoings living in rent, why the h... would you need a 24M unsecured $2.000 loan with quite high interest paying off $100 monthly if you just could have saved a month or two to get the desired item without a loan.
Well I'm fully living on those not thoughtful people thanks god, but I'll never ever understand those people.
My policy from the moment I stood on my own feet was: "Mike, you're flying now, look that you'll always have enough air underneath your wings not to crash." I'm still flying well.
Goes without saying that I never had a loan or a mortgage in my life which always was my policy and I even built a house long time ago with my hands.

People are financially wired today, what to do.

[kiwical]

Just the way of the world now Mike. I'm in online retail. The number of people who ask for laybuy, afterpay, humm, zip or another of the buy now pay later schemes is boggling. Often for items that cost less than $100. Kids want that widget NOW and don't care that it is costing them more or will land them in strife if they can't meet the payments.

[Mike64]

just experienced my first 100% write-off of a secured C2-S-10% loan. I wrote them asking for more information like why the security didn't kick in. No response however. Not very satisfying.

To add to this we all observed that there were hardly any own 10% flex loans available anymore from one day to another since about 2 months ago or 3. With exception of some very few very low risk ones.
Wondering if there is some kind of profit margin polishing happening like selling own loans as referred 25% flex loans. Please let me be wrong on this.

[malreid]

I started investing via P2P platforms about 18 months ago and spread a few smaller amounts around to see how things stacked up before making larger commitments. Suffice to say I have found Lending Crowd to be the least impressive of them. I think the quality and amount of investment available has definitely dropped off over the last 12 months, and communications compared to other platforms has always been poor. I am moving my funds out and over as it becomes worthwhile to do do.

[Saamee]

Do you recall WHAT the Security was??


Property or Vechicle??


If property you would expect a payment.


If a Vechicle was the Security - It may not have been insured and the Vechicle 'written off \ crashed'


An Email to LC support should get you an answer as to what the Security was if you do not recall.


It has always been a bug bear of mine that you are unable on the LC platform to go back and look at the original loan info we Investors were offered originally!!




just experienced my first 100% write-off of a secured C2-S-10% loan. I wrote them asking for more information like why the security didn't kick in. No response however. Not very satisfying.

To add to this we all observed that there were hardly any own 10% flex loans available anymore from one day to another since about 2 months ago or 3. With exception of some very few very low risk ones.
Wondering if there is some kind of profit margin polishing happening like selling own loans as referred 25% flex loans. Please let me be wrong on this.

[Tony Two Gloves]

Yes I'm the same they are extremely poor at communicating and I really think they may be considering closing shop. Them and Finance Direct don't make any profit so I wonder why they persist after 20 odd years in business - this model doesn't work but they haven't got the scale / brand that Harmoney had and not the grunt to get bank funding.

[Mike64]

@Samee: Nah, can't recall what that loan came with. I received a 2nd response after the first purely generic and none saying response to my enquiries.
The 2nd response was slightly better explaining things in example which I anyway know 😂. So also kind of a generic response with no relation to that loan.

1.) Yes, communication is an absolute disaster with them. Same generic answers if calling them for a wee question.
2.) Squirrel as well as Zagga went through pretty innovative processes recently. No improvements at all are happening at Lending Crowd.
3.) Regarding their earnings: Several month ago almost no own loans (10% Flex) are appearing anymore except very few very low interest loans.
Shame on you and me to think they manipulate the Flex rates to rise their earnings 😂😂😂

I'd give their organisation and it's management today a very poor performance rating from investor side, but a very poor one.

[kiwical]

At the time of this post there are 8 loans available. Haven't seen that in quite a while. All 25% flex unfortunately. But some secured with interest rates up to 16% as well. Often loans disappear within seconds, so I just thought it was unusual? Sign of struggling people perhaps, or LC pushing for customers?
14114

[Saamee]

1) I believe it is a sign of Investors holding back ( which has never been seen before at LC )

2) Plus the number of Borrowers that are short of money too - hence the large number of loans currently.

3) Put 1 & 2 together and you can read 'Troubled Times Ahead'

Take it as a warning sign that the World \ NZ ecomony is in Shock!!

My advice - ONLY take a loan that is secured by a property ONLY...

I personally have been removing all my Cash from LC in preperation for what I believe is coming our way...

Wake Up Peeps.......

[Mike64]

Yup, liquidity from investors seem recently to dry up a bit.
I'm withdrawing now also since last wek, but only about 5% of all so far.

[Soolaimon]

Lots of loans to choose from for several months now but I have stopped choosing for good since mid November. Although I have not had any defauts now for 6 months I am wary of the future. So for the last year I have only taken 3 yr loans and I will be totaly out sometime in 2027 with a bit of luck. So far I have noticed that the early repayments have slowed considerably as well.
Happy with past performance since the very start. Good luck and merry xmas.

[Saamee]

Where has your focus shifted to now for investing \ trading?

[Soolaimon]

Hi Saamee, short term td's, and maybe bonds. No trading.

[Saamee]

Thanks :)


Happy New Year.

[joker]

The dearth of 10% interest-flex loans makes me wonder if most of the loans are now referred by Finance Direct (LC owners' finance company). It would be a clever move that didn't require Finance Direct to raise any funds but still allowed a reasonable income from the 15% referrers slice of the interest with absolutely no risk or cost.

[Saamee]

That is an impressive board of available loans :)

14411

[kiwical]

Yep. And there were at least 4 more I think an hour ago? Nice to see those 10% non referred loans as well

[Saamee]

There are over 13 loans available on LC right now.....

Wondering if this unusually high number of loan applicants could be hard hit Aucklanders following the flooding in need of extra funds?

[kiwical]

Over the last couple of months there have been plenty to choose from. Refer to the post above yours. 16 on a random day in January. I only choose secured loans now. But even then I have 3 or 4 in collection at present. I'm in online retail and this time of year stings for many people. I always get a downturn in sales generally and an uptick in those using afterpay. Credit card spending from Christmas come due and back to school costs are often quoted as being to blame.

[kiwical]

At the time of this post there are currently 22 loans available. I don't check all the time but I feel it's another record. 14521

[Saamee]

Unfortunately that reflects the times.

Income limited. Living costs rising.

People borrow to survive day to day.

In USA credit cards are maxed out.

I would not invest in any of those loans up there today.

[Mike64]

I still find the management of their own sourced 10% Flex Loans very strange. In Feb/Mar this year appeared to my surprise quite an unusual lot of them and of a sudden rarely any this month. That does not look random to me and I still believe they are manipulating on their earnings providing on sourced loans as 25% Flex ones. But that's only my humble speculation course it appears suspiciously strange to me.

According to the plenty of statistics over my data, the 25% Flex Loans have in loan numbers an over 3 times higher arrears rate than the 10% Flex ones. About non of them are available recently leading me to reduce and withdraw steadily.

[PennyPicker]

I cannot comment on your speculation, really until today I hadn't thought much about the difference in Flex rates or the rate at which one or other came to market.

However here are my numbers for comparison.

Open Loans
Total: 854
Flex10: 232 (27.1%)
Flex25: 622 (72.8%)

In Arrears
Total: 58 (6.79%)
Flex10 in Arrears: 12 (20.6%)
Flex25 in Arrears: 46 (79.3%)

So, yes Flex25 are over represented in the current arrears data, but not a huge margin against the straight Flex10/25 loans ratio. Not enough for me to change my investing algo, yet.

A break down of when those loans were opened, 2020=2, 2021=27, 2022=23, 2023=6.

[kiwical]

Has anyone received their tax certificate for this year? Maybe they are running late, but just want to check that I haven't missed it. As always it's annoying that it is only emailed, and you can't access it on the website itself.

[Saamee]

Has anyone received their tax certificate for this year? Maybe they are running late, but just want to check that I haven't missed it. As always it's annoying that it is only emailed, and you can't access it on the website itself.

Yes - 1 week ago ( both wife and myself )

Have you chnaged your Email address?? Check your Junk Folder??

[malreid]

I have asked and the reply was they are being sent out this week. So only a few hours to go...?

Or maybe not, I shall have to chase them again.

[Mike64]

They are streight ahead in becoming number 1 provider in unsecured loans by these days provided numbers of those 😂

[malreid]

A couple of emails later no reply this time, call them and the person handling cert's is on their 1:19pm break. At least that's consistent with my current expectations of TLC....

[Saamee]

They are streight ahead in becoming number 1 provider in unsecured loans by these days provided numbers of those 

Yep... Today all Loans are Unsecured and all at 25% Flex!!

14603

[Mike64]

Insane arrears rates, lousy recoveries of secured loans, very borrower friendly but not investor friendly at all and many more to mention...I'm done with them guys. Hardcore withdrawing now after some slow withdrawal times with 20% out so far.

[Mike64]

Most insane loan of the day:
- B1 unsecured
- a catching 10% Flex
- 60 Month with 27k for damn debt consolidation (unbelievable!)
- medium financial situation
- and one default!!!

Hell, they should never have handed out that loan. Debt consolidation loans are the worst only helping people to again go into debt spiraling deeper.
To make it looking good for investors Flex is 10%.
Shame on them!

[Mike64]

They are practicing an irresponsible lending in my views and we investors are the idiots at the end with weak default recoveries on s-loans and so on, no thanks anymore.

That all needed to be said at one point.

[beacon]

Insane arrears rates, lousy recoveries of secured loans, very borrower friendly but not investor friendly at all and many more to mention...I'm done with them guys. Hardcore withdrawing now after some slow withdrawal times with 20% out so far.

Me too...

While their loan quality and service standards have been dropping for some time now, 25% flex loans are now the norm. Investor funds are not cleared same day and in time as they used to be (despite banking and industry improvements in NZ), and risk on their loans for investor has grown while return has diminished.

Their loan quality and return used to be so in demand, loans got lapped up in seconds after they listed. Now they languish for days, and need to be mopped up by their inhouse finance company. Perhaps, due to a conflict of interest between their P2P and finance company models, and forgetfulness about who they could be in NZ P2P sector, with Harmoney gone ...

[Saamee]

Me too...

While their loan quality and service standards have been dropping for some time now, 25% flex loans are now the norm. Investor funds are not cleared same day and in time as they used to be (despite banking and industry improvements in NZ), and risk on their loans for investor has grown while return has diminished.

Their loan quality and return used to be so in demand, loans got lapped up in seconds after they listed. Now they languish for days, and need to be mopped up by their inhouse finance company. Perhaps, due to a conflict of interest between their P2P and finance company models, and forgetfulness about who they could be in NZ P2P sector, with Harmoney gone ...


Yes and Agreed.


They appear to be struggling with staffing issues.


To be honest - since Aedi moved on within the company nothing has been the same.


I often find I have to Email them to ask for my funds to be cleared ( sent ASB to ASB ) after Midday!!!


Loans simply are crap at the moment....


Have been with them since the 1st day but now they are not the same as they were 6 or 7 years ago :(


Wayne - you know who I am - feel free to call and discuss :)

[Mike64]

another >$700 write-off today for a secured!!! C1 loan. Not even $1 was recovered.
Ridiculously they still claim to be the number one favorite P2P lender. Yeah sure and all on the head and damage of us investors. They don't give a s..t about us investors as long as they maximize their earnings only. There default recovery is the lowest performance I've ever seen, they don't care at all, it's not their losses.

I start getting now really angry about them!
I'm also pretty certain that they frequently read here on the forum and I expect a proper explanation about recovery strategies, why so low recoveries and more from Lending Crowd. Will see if they have the guts to do so.
I could send them an email complaint of course but I'm sure there would only come back some meaningless bla-bla-bla.

Lending Crowd, I want to see you commenting this complaint here in public and meaningful!

[Saamee]

@Mike64

No one had a gun to your head and made you Invest in THAT loan you refer too!

It was only YOU that made that choice.

The loan you talk about must have been with at least a Car as security.

I now only invest in Loans with Property as security - Why? Because I have never lost invested funds from a loan with 100% property as security.

Perhaps it is time for you to just take all your money out of LC - sounds like your time with them is done!!

[Mike64]

hi Saamee,

yes of course you're totally right in what you say. It's my responsibility only! to decide in what I invest, that goes without saying.
BUT: Their loan recovery performance is nevertheless extremely low. Secured means secured, ZERO recovery should never happen to a secured loan at all. For that it is meant to be secured.
For an unsecured loan it is clear from the beginning what you would (not) get. But not from a secured one.

Even if it is secured with a car only and with all what can happen to the car over the loan time, ZERO recovery is not right, that stinks badly and it is very badly and very investor-careless managed.
They should have a much stronger borrower diligence in place and probably get rid of their low performers working there.

[Mike64]

I'm not done with them until I see a proper improvement in their loan- and their low performer employee management.
I was asked to provide a direct email complaint instead of the publicly one here which I did in a much deeper worked out way then previously here.

[Mike64]

I'll shortly start to dig through all their write-off emails (secured loans only) in order to measure their recovery performance of recovered principal against open recovery principal for secured loans which is unfortunately not reported like this. I bet this is not better then 20-25% in average which is in my view a damn low recovery performance for a secured loan.
I gonna provide my results here when sorted. It's the remaining principal recoverered in default what matters, not the total principal received after recovery which in result is previously principal received+recovered principal as they report.
The normal received principal doesn't intrest me in defaulted loans, that's in the standard statistics. I want to see the recovery of the pending to get their performance of pending principal recovery in %!

In my view after x years with them is, that they run a team of damn low-performers, from loan sourcing until default recovery being nice to borrowers only but not to us investors.

No Saamee, I'm not done with them, I'm not someone who gives up easily. I just got committed to get my hands on digging into it!!! Their damn low performance has to improve significantly for all of us investors, I can't stand low performers without having tried hard to put them on a performance improvement plan and seeing the results after some time!

[Mike64]

I'm giving them a chance to improve investor satisfaction significantly. But I wouldn't hesitate to go to the press if no improvements are visible after some time. There are plenty of loan statistics and loan performance indicators to go public with.

I don't want to get there, I want them to get to a proper performance level. Going public would be my last resort in case they don't want to improve their performance.

[Saamee]

Well that is it!!

Now LC is closing as of 15th Nov 23....

[kiwical]

That's the end of the true p2p lenders in New Zealand I guess?

Still have squirrel and zagga, but they are slightly different offerings.
I just hope LC truly do put in the effort they say they are going to as far as still chasing down defaulters etc now that they are closing......

[Bjauck]

The P2P sector in conjunction with FMA didn’t bother getting a ruling from the IRD for retail investors as to tax deductibility of loan notes write-offs. They could have sought a ruling on a blended return for retail investors (of gross interest minus commission and minus capital write offs) which could then have been subject to RWT. I think that is what happened for P2P in the UK. Retail portfolio investors in NZ remain - as always - an after-thought.

[kiwical]

Anyone prepared to take a guess when the loans will actually actually stop appearing? There was a loan offered just now. 2 days after they are supposed to have stopped?

[Saamee]

Anyone prepared to take a guess when the loans will actually actually stop appearing? There was a loan offered just now. 2 days after they are supposed to have stopped?

Yep...

Mixed messaging for sure!! I saw that one appear too...

[Saamee]

No more DAILY MANUAL Withdrawals from LC guys and girls.

Now ONLY paid out on a Monday WEEKLY.

So if your account get a large repayment lets just say 20K on a Monday arvo....

Now you have to wait till the following Monday to get YOUR Funds.

What about Interest during that period.......?

This is NOT PROGRESS....

1488014880

[beacon]

No more DAILY MANUAL Withdrawals from LC guys and girls.

Now ONLY paid out on a Monday WEEKLY.

So if your account get a large repayment lets just say 20K on a Monday arvo....

Now you have to wait till the following Monday to get YOUR Funds.

What about Interest during that period.......?

This is NOT PROGRESS....

1488014880

Agree, disappointing and unfair...

[Mike64]

I totally agree as well. They can't just make our funds inaccessible to withdraw and not paying any on-call-account interest for having them sitting there for a week with no earnings.
What they do is probably almost criminal (not sure) to not let investors access their funds without paying proper interest during the week. I'm looking to send a complaint to the FMA but I'll wait for a week or so for potential improvements to come.
They for sure can't just hold our funds back just like that, that's against the rules we signed up for.
I'm not taking that without proper on-call-account earnings during the week at least or to even withdraw own funds whenever desired how we signed up with them.

[Mike64]

I can understand them for automating the lots of withdrawals
- but either daily
- or weekly with interest earnings on the idle funds accumulating there

That's a clear FMA complaint worth for not functioning well for investors as of the laws and regulations. That's exactly what I saw some time ago (anti-investor friendly) and posted here for other issues before.

[Saamee]

Whilst Harmoney was in 'Wind Down Mode' they continued to ALLOW Daily Withdrawals....

They ALSO gave the option to Investors to have funds Automatically repaid Once a Week.

[Mike64]

not Wayne yet obviously, I'll give them a week to improve

[Mike64]

Dear Wayne,


it's all a bit of a pain that you shut down your P2P business. But Wayne, you can't shut it down the way you're currently doing it, not at all!!! Denying investors withdrawing their funds is against any rules investors signed up for to invest with you and you know that too well too, right?


No Wayne, you can not let investor funds accumulate at your account (on your earnings!!!) for a full week without paying any proper on-call-account interest on funds sitting there. No Wayne, you're stealing investor money AND you don't let them withdraw and you know that.That's criminal Wayne



I'll give you one week time before launching an FMA complaint to improve things for investors. It's not that hard to play fair mate!


(on top of it I appreciate that you fixed that bug in your open loan notes data with removing the character space in the thousands figures. There is however a new bug in the same sheet as the interest value for a loan is not formatted in % but in a figure like "12.1" as interest. As a default the formatting was always in % from the beginning (or 0.121 in this example) leading to "1210%" interest in this example. As a result I need to divide all interest values in that column by 100 and then to copy the result figures back into that original column. Pretty stupid, isn't it?)



With kind regards,
Michael

[Mike64]

...........

[beacon]

I can understand them for automating the lots of withdrawals
- but either daily
- or weekly with interest earnings on the idle funds accumulating there

That's a clear FMA complaint worth for not functioning well for investors as of the laws and regulations. That's exactly what I saw some time ago (anti-investor friendly) and posted here for other issues before.

I'll second that. There is a clear and solid case of complaint against them regarding stopping DAILY withdrawals if no interest is paid on Investor funds.
They have been investor agnostic, and keep forming/changing rules to suit themselves. Changing the withdrawal rules unilaterally is breach of trust, even if they can prove it is not breach of their contract (which I doubt they can prove anyway).

I don't think they made even the Monday (auto) weekly payment which was supposedly due yesterday. I haven't received mine. What a dog's breakfast...

[malreid]

My payment came through last night.

[Saamee]

Have just been reviewing the latest "Investor Agreement" dated 20th March 2023... link below

Under "Investor Account" Clause 'E' it ONLY states "Any Time request funds be Xfered.

Us Investors have NEVER accepted anything else...

14886

https://lendingcrowd.co.nz/content/files/InvestorAgreement.pdf

[Saamee]

In full transparency.

Email sent to Wayne Croad ( Lending Crowd Managing Director )

Hi Wayne,




May I respectfully request you pass this Email on to the Lending Crowd Board ASAP.


You appear to have stopped answering my Emails :(


I am not sure why you would do that at this time.


Today I have filed a Complaint against Lending Crowd with the Financial Services Complaints Limited.


It would appear that Lending Crowd has acted against the Terms and Conditions as spelt out in the latest Investor Agreement dated 20th March 2023.

Note there are 4 earlier versions however I do not ever recall being asked to accept the newer T & C's.


Within the Investor Agreement - Clause 'Investor Account, sub clause 'E' it clearly states that an Investor can request Lending Crowd AT ANY TIME to transfer funds to the nominated bank account.


View the attachments for further confirmation.


I await any response that you may offer at this time.


My summary of the recent Lending Crowd actions are as follows...



"For some reason.... Some kind of knee Jerk reaction has unilaterally and arbitrarily been taken without any thoughts of ramifications and respect for your long term and loyal Investors and without following good governance where it comes to Investor Relations and updating relevant documentation"


Kind regards,

[beacon]

In full transparency.

Email sent to Wayne Croad ( Lending Crowd Managing Director )

Hi Wayne,




May I respectfully request you pass this Email on to the Lending Crowd Board ASAP.


You appear to have stopped answering my Emails :(


I am not sure why you would do that at this time.


Today I have filed a Complaint against Lending Crowd with the Financial Services Complaints Limited.


It would appear that Lending Crowd has acted against the Terms and Conditions as spelt out in the latest Investor Agreement dated 20th March 2023.

Note there are 4 earlier versions however I do not ever recall being asked to accept the newer T & C's.


Within the Investor Agreement - Clause 'Investor Account, sub clause 'E' it clearly states that an Investor can request Lending Crowd AT ANY TIME to transfer funds to the nominated bank account.


View the attachments for further confirmation.


I await any response that you may offer at this time.


My summary of the recent Lending Crowd actions are as follows...



"For some reason.... Some kind of knee Jerk reaction has unilaterally and arbitrarily been taken without any thoughts of ramifications and respect for your long term and loyal Investors and without following good governance where it comes to Investor Relations and updating relevant documentation"


Kind regards,

Count me in if you decide to take it further. I doubt good sense will prevail without intervention.

[beacon]

My payment came through last night.

Mine still hasn't, despite available cash in account. I'm with a mainstream bank.
Manual withdrawals used to come through to my bank same night before rule changes - so it appears they haven't AUTOMATICALLY processed my automatic withdrawal

[Mike64]

@Saamee

good on you Saamee, I highly appreciate your complaint step.
I had given them a few more days to improve or modify after my complaint mail.
Wayne had at least responded to my mail but not in a satisfying way at all.

It's my turn now to add onto your complaint Saamee!

Latest LC email from today 3.30pm: The entire website will not be accessible anymore from 11 December on. And their reports have even bugs and wrongs.

Horror how they manage their shut-down.

[Mike64]

...........

[Saamee]

That I cannot do for you!! :)


But I can make it easy for you by pointing you to the below Online Form...

https://fscl.org.nz/about-us/complaints/complaint-form/

[Saamee]

Count me in if you decide to take it further. I doubt good sense will prevail without intervention.

That I cannot do for You!! :)

But I can make it easy for you by giving you the link to the Online Form below.

https://fscl.org.nz/about-us/complaints/complaint-form/

[beacon]

That I cannot do for You!! :)

But I can make it easy for you by giving you the link to the Online Form below.

https://fscl.org.nz/about-us/complaints/complaint-form/

I wasn't talking about FSCL complaints. I was talking about litigation etc.