Average age of investors

[Lewylewylewy]

They say that investment in the stock market is dying out because younger generations aren't investing. (Can't see how that would happen as most investment seems to be wholesale, but that's what they say... Maybe it might reduce demand a bit, make things more profitable for banks and the like...).

I was just wondering if everyone minded sharing their age to see how much truth there is in that?

I'll start things off. I'm 34.

[King1212]

Could be true...they spend too much on beer and women! I am 35

[Blendy]

i'm 36 :) and a lady (for diversification)

[fiasco]

29 - Still a lot to learnl

[BC_Doc]

25........infancy stages for me...

[silverblizzard888]

24 here.

I think to some extend its true because younger people don't go out of their way to find out more about investing, they are interested, but thats where it ends. Most usually suffer from these problems:

No money
No investing knowledge
No interest in the area
Lacks patience and wants instant gains
Focused on property or other investments
Learning but lack of urgency in their approach

Heck when I ask about their kiwisavers account they have no idea who its with or what its invested in. It'd definitely pay to have a bit more knowledge for their retirement savings especially when performance and fees have such an impact on what they will end up with.

Every person I meet has an interest to hear me out, but very few have taken my advice. The ones that have, have made some changes and invested in stocks, but couldn't say they went out to improve their knowledge. I tell every young person I meet to just simply invest, just that step alone will give them an idea of how to do it and starts breaking barriers down and puts them ahead of so many people. I do it with caution of course that unless these people understand what they are getting into and are keen to learn, then I don't think the risk is suitable for them. I just advise an index fund in that case, especially for their kiwisaver, but at the end of the day I just try to explain that wealth and risk management will be important in their future and its better to learn early. I'd definitely put it that for young people they have different focus where they want to spend their money and usually none left to consider investing, which to the point if they are not invested to earn anything then they don't feel a need to learn as its not important to them at this time and moment.

[JBmurc]

38 ....I started at 24.... but became Tax paying trader @ 28

[BeeBop]

Started at 24, now 45! Am a female investor. Property is my larger activity but shares are the most interesting.

[Jinx]

Think I might win the youngest with personal holdings? 20

[Ace]

Started at 18/19 as soon as I could get a shareholding account with ASB, and I have just turned 24 a few weeks ago. I have a few friends who I've gotten into investing and they're loving it now.

[trader_jackson]

Well here's some info about me:

I am reasonably active on here, and although it may not always seem like it, I very much appreciate everyone's opinions.

I brought my first shares in MRP's IPO, I have just turned 20, and have over 10 holdings, mostly NZX, mostly small, brokerage is also a killer for me, hence why I'm with ASB.

I have also made bad decisions, particularly with I first started investing.

I am at Auckland University, half way through a BCom/BProp conjoint, and always open to meeting new people.

[BC_Doc]

24 here.

I think to some extend its true because younger people don't go out of their way to find out more about investing, they are interested, but thats where it ends. Most usually suffer from these problems:

No money
No investing knowledge
No interest in the area
Lacks patience and wants instant gains
Focused on property or other investments
Learning but lack of urgency in their approach

Heck when I ask about their kiwisavers account they have no idea who its with or what its invested in. It'd definitely pay to have a bit more knowledge for their retirement savings especially when performance and fees have such an impact on what they will end up with.

Every person I meet has an interest to hear me out, but very few have taken my advice. The ones that have, have made some changes and invested in stocks, but couldn't say they went out to improve their knowledge. I tell every young person I meet to just simply invest, just that step alone will give them an idea of how to do it and starts breaking barriers down and puts them ahead of so many people. I do it with caution of course that unless these people understand what they are getting into and are keen to learn, then I don't think the risk is suitable for them. I just advise an index fund in that case, especially for their kiwisaver, but at the end of the day I just try to explain that wealth and risk management will be important in their future and its better to learn early. I'd definitely put it that for young people they have different focus where they want to spend their money and usually none left to consider investing, which to the point if they are not invested to earn anything then they don't feel a need to learn as its not important to them at this time and moment.

Couldn't agree with this more. Pretty much sums up my experience thus far. I'm almost done with medical school and "investing" is still a big black hole of unknown for a lot of my colleagues. Principly, lack of education seems to be the driving factor as many i talk to still shrug and mutter about 'high risk'/' like gambling' blah blah. Such a shame that that is the view many have..

[percy]

I am 67.
Brought my first share when I was 18 in 1967.
Travelled overseas from age 21 to 23.
Had all my capital and heavy borrowings in my retail book/toy shops until 1981,yet kept watching the markets .
Lost a great deal in 1987 crash,and GFC.
Think in another 15 to 20 years I may begin to understand the markets,however I am remain"well positioned".
Still enjoy my business of selling books to school libraries.

[fungus pudding]

i'm 36 :) and a lady (for diversification)

Just checking on king1212's theory. Do you blow it all on beer and women?

[drcjp]

47 here. Started investing in property/shares at 25 - always been interested but the last 6 years have been the most insane I've encountered.
I don't think I will ever understand the "market" but am firm believer in principle that fear and greed are the two main drivers.
I don't trust fund managers but I have to say my broker is outstanding. Finding a good one is impt. (if you don't do it yourself, which I don't as trading is not my day-job and I don't do it enough for it to qualify as such).
I actually think schools should make economics or accounting classes do faux-trading for one year at least. You learn so much just by DYOR, much more than market stuff.

[Hectorplains]

Just checking on king1212's theory. Do you blow it all on beer and women?


45. Started at 13 - I loved the drama of going into the exchange and share certificates arriving in the mail weeks after a buy. My first purchases were Omnicorp and THL (The Helicopter Line.)

[Blendy]

hehehe all the time ;)

no, i would say I'm a 'collector' rather than a 'spender'

[IAK]

45. Started a few years ago when the govt floated the Gentailers, been interested ever since. Very much appreciate the views of the experienced traders on this forum.

[thestg]

56, Started playing with shares when I was 35 – Made lots of mistakes but slowly moved forward.
Retired at 53 then found I was a bit short on cash, so increased my shareholdings by making a small increase on my mortgage.
Been lucky with good returns (2013-14 - 1.2%, 2014-15 - 25.9%, and 2015-16 – 19.5%).
Have been putting half of my returns back into my mortgage & re-investing the other half so should be mortgage free by 2020.

[macduffy]

Here's one to bump your average up! - 77, started investing at 22 with an application for 100 shares in Robert Holt Ltd, an obscure Hawkes Bay sawmiller that morphed into Carter Holt Harvey many years and many iterations later. Started with nothing and still have most of it. (Apologies to whoever said that first.)

:)

[trackers]

I am 67.
Brought my first share when I was 18 in 1967.
Travelled overseas from age 21 to 23.
Had all my capital and heavy borrowings in my retail book/toy shops until 1981,yet kept watching the markets .
Lost a great deal in 1987 crash,and GFC.
Think in another 15 to 20 years I may begin to understand the markets,however I am remain"well positioned".
Still enjoy my business of selling books to school libraries.

Well positioned! Love it Percy

Been investing via ASB Securities on NZX and ASX since I was 18 and am 34 now, so almost half my life and have still only scratched the surface as far as understanding goes

[TideMan]

68 here.
Still working, so I invest all my nat super in shares.
Our financial advisor is making a long term return on our main investment of 11% after tax and expenses.
My challenge is to beat him, but I'm way short. Negative, in fact.

[fungus pudding]

67. Retired many many years ago. Property investor and have quite a few listed property trusts shares. Don't bother with other shares cos I don't understand them. Only make a move if it's going to increase my income, so a collector rather than a trader. 'Keep stacking up the income' is my motto.

[ari]

First shares at 18 (UEB) and been in market ever since. Now 67 and still learning. Had some great gains with Tranz Rail and Fletcher Energy and I've weathered some huge losses, but still in there.
Always aimed to retire at 35, finally made it at 53 and became heavy day trader then got bored so built 2 houses on North Shore. Then purchased 3HA 20mins Nth and built our dream home plus 243m2 shed and now farm Alpacas. Getting bored again...perhaps I could write a book!

[BlackPeter]

Interesting .... and great to learn that there are that many young investors around. Always thought that I am one of the younger ones (well, it feels that way when I'm attending AGM's, but maybe this is just my youthful looks;)).

Still short of the 60'ies - but not by much.

Sort of retired a couple of years ago (after a working life in engineering and management) - and intended to do a better job with growing my retirement savings than my professional fund mangers did during my working life. So far it worked out for me ... but than, the standard the professionals set was not hard to beat either ...

[Bilbo]

Great to read this information. Knowing the posters age and investing background is useful when evaluating comments. The investment horizon of a 20 year old is much longer than that of a 70 year old and the 20 year old is likely to be comfortable with taking on more risk in exchange for greater reward.

I'm 47 and am investing for the long term still which means I favour small cap growth stocks over stable dividend payers. My first investments were after the 87 crash and I lost money. I dabbled a little over the years but only really started seriously investing in 2010.

I've learnt a lot from this forum and other sources, but the one throw away line which stands out for me is to "ride your winners and cut your losers" with the caveat that when your winner is way overvalued start selling and watch the moving averages to know when to exit.

[kiwichick]

I'm 29, female as well (in case you couldn't tell by my username). Started investing a few years ago with AIR shares - made a 50% return and spent it all on a trip to Europe. Now I'm getting my feet wet again, though it looks like I might need to branch out to other markets as the NZX is rather limiting. I'm a 50% index investor, 50% direct shares.

[vin]

26, started at 24

[iceman]

I'm 50. Been investing in shares for over 20 years. Work away overseas so try to have stocks in my portfolio that I'm comfortable holding without the need to check on them daily.

[777]

63. Started when 20. Made a fortune out of Brierley's and lost a fortune in '87. Recovered from that and will be able to live on my dividend stream for longer than my body is likely to last.

60% direct investor and 40% funds. Age has not changed my investment approach. Too much fun to go too passive. Tried being a trader but not as successful at that as being a longer term investor.

[Kelvin]

24, started around 6 months ago with AIR!

[Stumpynuts]

Currently 29, Started at 18.
Been accumulating HGD/NTL since the very start (Seeing the longer term outlook for this)

Lost about $1500 on Feltex, bought a few months before it went tits up. My first experience of a company I bought shares in going under.

Bought WHS just before Sylvia Park opened up, watched my initial buy-in cost at least double over a period of a year and a bit before selling out.

Bought into ASX as well - EKM/GOR & UNV - Made several high amounts which I used to purchase my first home with.
Bought into OBL - Bought at 2c, watched it skyrocket up to 19.5c, sold out. Then silly me bought back in again at 13c now stuck with a paper loss.

[mondograss]

38 - Have been investing since I was about 22. CEN was my first, sold up that portfolio with enough profit to pay for an OE. Then bought back into the market when I was about 27 to try and get enough together to pay off the mortgage on my first home. Ended up selling some to go hike the Inca trail for my 30th, then turning that first home into a rental and selling up the rest of my portfolio to put a deposit on a second home. Now both places are sold and as of 6 months ago I'm back in the sharemarket investing my profits, hoping to get enough together to retire early, though I suspect my love of travel might delay the goal. About 50\50 direct shares vs a fund manager. So far vs the fund manager, I'm winning.

[Bjauck]

Started at 18/19 as soon as I could get a shareholding account with ASB, and I have just turned 24 a few weeks ago. I have a few friends who I've gotten into investing and they're loving it now. I must be old at 46y as "gotten" was marked incorrect by my 1980's school teachers as being AmeriEng usage! Congrats for enticing your friends away from the kiwi fixation on real estate. Fwiw, those of my contemporaries my age who put everything into leveraged real estate and made use of the tax regime have seen better returns than those who put their money into financial investments.

[bull....]

40s lost all my money in 87 crash as a kid for my first taste of the markets , now I trade for a living ( or is that gamble for a living lol )

[trader_jackson]

24, started around 6 months ago with AIR!

May your investment "take off" ;);)

[airedale]

[QUOTE=trader_jackson;612656]May your investment "take off" ;);)[/QUOTE

After the take-off there will be a landing.:scared:

[fungus pudding]

I must be old at 46y as "gotten" was marked incorrect by my 1980's school teachers as being AmeriEng usage! Congrats for enticing your friends away from the kiwi fixation on real estate. Fwiw, those of my contemporaries my age who put everything into leveraged real estate and made use of the tax regime have seen better returns than those who put their money into financial investments.

Your teachers were wrong. It is the correct past participle originally used in British English, but dropped out in favour of got in some circles as lots of words were in British English, although ill-gotten and forgotten remained in use. Never forget British English gives us such gems as 'it were broke' + 'we was sat down'. For heaps more examples watch Coronation Street.

As far as your friends go, it would have been the leveraging that made the profit rather than their choice of real estate over shares. The same choices and the same tax treatment applies to both forms of investment.

[TheHunter]

Yet another 24 here...

[Oliver]

22 year old software developer from Auckland here, studied business at university.

[RTM]

Nearly 63, retired early and trying to get by on dividends.
Always have invested, maybe collected is a better description but to a small degree until last 5 years or so.
Still got Share Certificates for Chase and Equiticorp and Waikato Stud just to remind me of what can go wrong. Should frame them I guess. Held shares in NZO since inception. :-( ?? Encouraging my boys to get involved with some success. They need to do something early on, make some mistakes, as they won't have superan like we hope to get in a few years.

Left Auckland maybe a year or two to early real estate wise, but found great place in Kerikeri with view down estuary.
Just magic up here.

All the best and good luck to you all.
RTM

[In4a$]

I am looking old at 60, so many young ones here.
Started in the 80's with a few but didn't get serious till after 911. Markets dropped so much it made sense to get in. Plus internet trading made it much easier to trade. Have more regrets selling than buying so have become more of a holder than a trader with a focus on dividends.

[davflaws]

I bought UEB and L&M in 1969, and have owned various "investments" ever since, either on my own account, in trust for family members, or as part of various collective arrangements (old hippie).
I am now 70, semiretired, and have a small portfolio of equities and a mortgage that is now down to $15k. I am currently looking out over Bream Bay and wondering if I can be bothered walking down to my dinghy and rowing out to catch a snapper for tea. Probably not.

My portfolio is about equally divided between "growth = gambles?" and "dividend" stocks

[Big Blind]

38. Aim is to set up a growing passive income stream for the long term. First purchase 18 months ago

[jonu]

I bought UEB and L&M in 1969, and have owned various "investments" ever since, either on my own account, in trust for family members, or as part of various collective arrangements (old hippie).
I am now 70, semiretired, and have a small portfolio of equities and a mortgage that is now down to $15k. I am currently looking out over Bream Bay and wondering if I can be bothered walking down to my dinghy and rowing out to catch a snapper for tea. Probably not.

My portfolio is about equally divided between "growth = gambles?" and "dividend" stocks

I imagine it's fair snorting into Bream bay today! Wise decision to stay at home.

[Bjauck]

Your teachers were wrong. It is the correct past participle originally used in British English... Another great tangent! The key there is "originally" . Language evolves and in the 1980's in NZ we were not still using Shakespearian English. NZ English in the 1980's would have used "gotten" in certain fixed expressions as you mention. However with increasing exposure to American usage in TV "gotten" is now increasingly being used in general NZ English. Gotten had fallen out of favour in British English by the C18th, so it would never have been part of NZ English until the increasing influence of American English in the late C20th.

Regional varieties of English from Appalachian American to "Weatherfield" Manchester have all sorts of usages some of which may eventually influence the standard varieties in their respective countries and around the World.


The same choices and the same tax treatment applies to both forms of investment. In practice, it is very much easier to leverage real estate, consequently easier to get tax-free gains in a rising market, whilst reducing your incidence of income tax. The tax treatment of shares and real estate is not the same. A dividend has a wide definition. The taxation of financial arrangements includes the taxation of all gains including capital appreciation. Investor housing often has a small percent return as taxable income.

Not to mention the tax advantages of owner occupied housing. If you choose to rent and invest your capital in financial investments, then the profits are fully taxable and your rent has to be paid out of your tax-paid income.

[ari]

Nearly 63, retired early and trying to get by on dividends.
Always have invested, maybe collected is a better description but to a small degree until last 5 years or so.
Still got Share Certificates for Chase and Equiticorp and Waikato Stud just to remind me of what can go wrong. Should frame them I guess. Held shares in NZO since inception. :-( ?? Encouraging my boys to get involved with some success. They need to do something early on, make some mistakes, as they won't have superan like we hope to get in a few years.

Left Auckland maybe a year or two to early real estate wise, but found great place in Kerikeri with view down estuary.
Just magic up here.

All the best and good luck to you all.
RTM

Interesting that you still have scrip....I held on till a couple of years ago and was always going to have them made into placemats and coasters....great talking point at dinner parties!

[fungus pudding]

What would really make this thread interesting is to see how many investors are deriving a living from their spoils as opposed to those who have other incomes, and whether they are working to replacing a wage or salary with investment income. It interests me particularly as I know many property investors who have made it their sole income, but very few who have done the same with shares.

[alliswell]

45. Started at 13 - I loved the drama of going into the exchange and share certificates arriving in the mail weeks after a buy. My first purchases were Omnicorp and THL (The Helicopter Line.)

YES!!!,.. the good old certificates!!,...I forgot all about those,...

43, started in my early teens

[alistar_mid]

39 here, started investing in my early 20's with property and a managed fund.

Sold one of my investment properties last year, mortgage free now and invested excess in my own ASB portfolio and another managed fund.

If i didnt keep buying into slater and gordon as it went down, I'd be beating my fund manager lol

[Biscuit]

What would really make this thread interesting is to see how many investors are deriving a living from their spoils as opposed to those who have other incomes, and whether they are working to replacing a wage or salary with investment income. It interests me particularly as I know many property investors who have made it their sole income, but very few who have done the same with shares.

53, first shares at 18 (NZOG and Capital Markets - think it was called that, Fay and Richwhite's company). We make a living off investments (mostly property) but I still work. I would wager that most investors making a living off investments in NZ had a big hand up from capital gain on property more than from shares.

[alistar_mid]

53, first shares at 18 (NZOG and Capital Markets - think it was called that, Fay and Richwhite's company). We make a living off investments (mostly property) but I still work. I would wager that most investors making a living off investments in NZ had a big hand up from capital gain on property more than from shares.

yeah selling off one property enabled me to go mortage free on my primary residence and my other rental, as well as a 6 figures into shares. The leverage power of property, and the last 15 years in the Auckland market, pretty hard to beat that.

[Biscuit]

yeah selling off one property enabled me to go mortage free on my primary residence and my other rental, as well as a 6 figures into shares. The leverage power of property, and the last 15 years in the Auckland market, pretty hard to beat that.

Yes, for most kiwis: home first, rentals second, shares for diversification

[trader_jackson]

Yes, for most kiwis: home first, rentals second, shares for diversification

I think this will change over time as I do think eventually NZ will introduce taxes, namely a capital gains tax, which will make buying property alot less attractive. With the skyrocketing prices of property, and what will probably be a change to legislation allowing increased supply, the "never ending gains" in property will come to an end (or slow), along with the reputation amount retail investors (ie mum and dads) that "property always goes up, and you never lose" (similar to what many New Zealanders had in the 1980's with shares)

What the NZX, as an exchange operator, hasn't done very well is push shares 'back into the limelight', its still costly, and still seen as a place where only the big money goes, I have some friends who think property is easier and would rather poor all of their money (and student loan) into that than "risk it on shares that will probably go down" (despite what research says...)

[Biscuit]

I think this will change over time as I do think eventually NZ will introduce taxes, namely a capital gains tax, which will make buying property alot less attractive. With the skyrocketing prices of property, and what will probably be a change to legislation allowing increased supply, the "never ending gains" in property will come to an end (or slow), along with the reputation amount retail investors (ie mum and dads) that "property always goes up, and you never lose" (similar to what many New Zealanders had in the 1980's with shares)

What the NZX, as an exchange operator, hasn't done very well is push shares 'back into the limelight', its still costly, and still seen as a place where only the big money goes, I have some friends who think property is easier and would rather poor all of their money (and student loan) into that than "risk it on shares that will probably go down" (despite what research says...)

Yes, I'm sure there possibly a lot of truth in that. It's sad in a way though. I've been investing in shares more than 30 years and made f-all really. Property though, because the numbers are automatically large and you can borrow loads, the profits have been significant. It would just be so hard (ie impossible) for ordinary people to do that with shares without being focused on it and rather brave.

[Mickey]

58.

I first got into shares at 25 but fortunately I was mostly out when Black Monday hit in '87. As luck would have it - I needed some money for a car and so I sold most of my shares a few weeks prior to the crash and only lost a small amount on the one or two I had left. I only got back into the market again in 2010 after I had paid off my mortgage and I'm building a long term portfolio of shares that are paying reasonable dividends that I intend to use to augment my income when it comes time to retire.

[Bjauck]

Yes, I'm sure there possibly a lot of truth in that. It's sad in a way though. I've been investing in shares more than 30 years and made f-all really. Property though, because the numbers are automatically large and you can borrow loads, the profits have been significant. It would just be so hard (ie impossible) for ordinary people to do that with shares without being focused on it and rather brave. That is true. The ease at which investors can borrow money to finance property thereby reducing your taxable income and boosting your tax-free gains has meant that stocks and shares comprise a small part of NZers assets. Plus the taxation treatment of investments and rental property is not the same or even equal. There are complex rules over what is taxable in relation both to fixed interest and equity investments.

[fungus pudding]

Plus the taxation treatment of investments and rental property is not the same or even equal. There are complex rules over what is taxable in relation both to fixed interest and equity investments.

What's the difference between rental property and any other investment as far as tax goes?

[voltage]

Age 62 and have been investing in shares for 28 years. Also own a few rentals. Often returns in shares do not reflect the high risk you take. More focussed now on a balanced share portfolio of index ETFs and direct shares. Property works so well because of leverage with massive numbers. Over the long term all property rises hence magnifies returns with leverage. I do gear into shares but keep this very low, 20% max compared to property, up to 100%.

[Bjauck]

What's the difference between rental property and any other investment as far as tax goes? Compare and contrast the taxation rules of "dividends", overseas investments and financial arrangements with those of nz rental property income. Too many differences to post here.

[workingdad]

43, like a couple of others only came into it when the government offered up the gentailers, so far up 25% over the 3 years which I am pretty happy with as a novice, been some wins and a couple of loses and lots of learning. I very recently cashed in 2/3rds of the portfolio thinking there may be a bear market on the way and wanting to be able to take advantage of that but its not looking like it at the moment...... Perhaps a bit overcautious but its my 3 kids university funds on the line. Worked hard enough and made good career choices to be in a position to consider semi-retiring this year.

[fungus pudding]

Compare and contrast the taxation rules of "dividends", overseas investments and financial arrangements with those of nz rental property income. Too many differences to post here.

Tax treatment of offshore real estate is complex and varied too. So apples with Apple's, what's the difference in tax treatment between NZ real estate and NZ shares?

[Biscuit]

Not wanting to hi-jack the thread, but I think its an interesting question F-P put up about how many are actually making a living off shares. Many of us have been at it a long time, there are plenty of "gurus" on here but who's made any "real" dough (ie million plus) out of it? I suspect that for most of us we have families, jobs etc etc that kind of get in the way of the kind of the focus needed. Property on the other hand, just takes a bit of hard work and sacrifice.

[Bjauck]

Tax treatment of offshore real estate is complex and varied too. So apples with Apple's, what's the difference in tax treatment between NZ real estate and NZ shares? When you eliminate all the other apples in the investment basket....you are left with NZ property and NZ shares. The tax differences are great and you will need to do you own research as to what is included as a "dividend". It is not a chance occurrence that NZers have so much of their wealth in real estate compared with people in other countries. Lack of a sufficiently diversified local share market and taxation issues being two of the many reasons for that.

[fungus pudding]

When you eliminate all the other apples in the investment basket....you are left with NZ property and NZ shares. The tax differences are great and you will need to do you own research as to what is included as a "dividend". It is not a chance occurrence that NZers have so much of their wealth in real estate compared with people in other countries. Lack of a sufficiently diversified local share market and taxation issues being two of the many reasons for that.

Please explain. I've done as much research as I possibly can. A dividend is a dividend and rent is rent. What are these great difference in tax treatment that you claim exist?

[jmsnz]

Not wanting to hi-jack the thread, but I think its an interesting question F-P put up about how many are actually making a living off shares. Many of us have been at it a long time, there are plenty of "gurus" on here but who's made any "real" dough (ie million plus) out of it? I suspect that for most of us we have families, jobs etc etc that kind of get in the way of the kind of the focus needed. Property on the other hand, just takes a bit of hard work and sacrifice.
50, made my first direct share investment about 15 years ago after a couple of fund investment and financial adviser 'experiences' made me realise nobody cared for my money like I did.

Have direct shares, funds, term deposits and investment properties. In answer to the question above I would comment that for my circumstances it is easier to see retirement being funded by rental income than dividend income for lots of reasons that probably warrant a separate topic. Bottom line is more people think that they know more about property than shares and I suspect that they are probably correct. Personally I don't think that is necessarily a good thing though and I would agree that as noted previously the NZX haven't done a great job in this area.

That has prompted me to do so here - http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?10545-So-Why-Is-NZ-In-Love-With-Property

P.s. I think that is the first thread I have actually created here!

[RRR]

41

First share investment in 2008 at the peak of the share market valuation/just prior to GFC - so a baptism by fire for me as I entered the share market!
Kiwisaver will change the perception towards the share market in my view, as it did for Australia since the introduction of compulsory superannuation over there in the early 90's.

[Zouga]

I am 54 and have only been investing 3 years. I read the forum quite often and have learned a lot. I am currently with PEB, MELCA, TPW, THL and SUM. Sitting at 18% but that is due to SUM and MELCA. The stock, that shall remain nameless but has been such a lot of fun in the forum, I recently increased my holdings in and is now roaring toward -14%. Yay! Oh, and I had ATM but sold when I had a 10 % return. I am another female! And I don't think I will be able give up work to do this full time. I don't think I have the nerves. I would love to learn more about TA, beyond the basics I have picked up. Can anyone recommend a book or course?

[Snow Leopard]

Given that this thread is titled 'Average age of investors' is anybody keeping a running calculation of the average age of the self sampling selection of respondents, who may or may not be giving their true age?

I may be one of the few people here whose primary source of income is from investing in shares.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Valleytrader]

I'm 43 and have just started investing in the last year or so. Only have five stocks at the moment. Also has a small investment in Harmoney loans. I would recommend The Intelligent Investor, by Benjamin Graham. For further reading, Security Analysis by Benjamin Graham and David Dodd.

[Bjauck]

Please explain. I've done as much research as I possibly can. A dividend is a dividend and rent is rent. What are these great difference in tax treatment that you claim exist? Dividends are indeed dividends and rent is indeed rent and both are taxed. I agree with you.

[nextbigthing]

Well I might as well pass on the exciting news, we've had the first (well first known anyway) Sharetrader baby! From two members who used to post on here, Moose_900 and Robbo24! They originally met at a Sharetrader meeting, hit it off, got married and just announced the arrival of their first beautiful baby 9 months later. No doubt the child will be an avid investor and I'd expect to see our youngest member posting vigorously soon under the handle Mobbo_924 or something similar. Congratulations you two love birds!

[fungus pudding]

Dividends are indeed dividends and rent is indeed rent and both are taxed. I agree with you.

You are dodging the question. You claimed property has a tax advantage that shares do not have. What is it?

[Cricketfan]

43 and have been investing for a couple of years, after buying some MRP. Shares are now about 50% of my savings which is way more than I ever planned, but being a regular reader of this forum now it's hard to resist buying sometimes! I made a few mistakes early on with tech companies (DIL, XRO, and PEB) but luckily other shares have more than made up for them (FPH, AIA, and SUM have been particularly good). I wish I had started earlier, but then again going through events such as the GFC would've been tough. I hope there's not another one just around the corner.....

[neopoleII]

im in my late 40s and made most of my money up until late 20s via salary.
then invested in property and was 7 figures by mid 30.
then the sharemarket as an investor..... not trading.
lost most of it.
early 40's back to property and salary and am doing very well.
still hold several hundred thousand shares in different companies hoping for a lotto ticket return.
at my age now, and what i went through. the lotto ticket "win" for me is the experience....."not winning it"

i have a "beauty" of a wife..... lots of land, lots of wild animals around the house and my salary keeps pace with the bills.
I AM FINALLY HAPPY.
still work 7 days and that keeps me young.
life is good if your not greedy.
sad it took so long to learn that.
happy though that i did.

good luck to you

[pierre]

Late 60's here. My first investment was at age 16. Advised by a guy I was working with I bought Mt Isa Mines just after the miners went on strike and the SP plunged. Sold a couple of months later for about 60% gain.
Got the investing bug and have been in and out of the market ever since.

Have had some great wins and some heavy losses (1987). Mainly though have ridden the waves, sometimes a white knuckle ride, but have come out very well overall.

I now have a seven figure portfolio predominantly in NZ companies. Always have a few "interesting" shares to add some fun and excitement to the game.

Current holdings in that category are BLT (up about 40% on a $100k investment and PEB (down 10% in a similar plunge).

I do all my own research and do not use a broker - invest online only. This forum has been a great tool and helped immensely with making some excellent investments - HBL DIL and SCL have been winners over the past year or two.

I have other sources of income and generally buy to hold. I tend to use my dividends to fund overseas travel.

[lissica]

Age 37. First investment was Freightways at the 2003 IPO, age 25. I still hold every single one of those shares, never sold.

Got serious in 2006, with awful timing just before the GFC. Luckily a very high paying job at the time made up for six digit losses. It was a good learning experience. Have always invested long term...rarely sell shares but gotten better at picking value, and companies with good long term prospects.

As far as living off the dividends...not quite there yet. We are equally invested in shares and property. I find shares more interesting.

[Jay]

Given that this thread is titled 'Average age of investors' is anybody keeping a running calculation of the average age of the self sampling selection of respondents, who may or may not be giving their true age?

I may be one of the few people here whose primary source of income is from investing in shares.

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger


Up to here and not counting you PT or me there have been 48 respondents (approx.) giving an average age of 45 and a bit , goes up to 45 and a bit more when I add myself in , average still under 46 though

Me - Started out with a "share Club" in 86 with 3 of us with about $200 each, You can guess how that went in the end. 1 never touched it since, one has a longer term portfolio, doing Ok as far as I know, hasn't retired to Monaco yet though, and me. Not much for quite some time after that
Dabbling on the trading side, made not much, lack of spare capital one reason, selling too early another - did well on paper trading (don't we all), problem is paper trading profits don't buy much!
Long term much better, paid for a new bathroom, a good holiday and still had more than my original capital left.

[Lewylewylewy]

You are dodging the question. You claimed property has a tax advantage that shares do not have. What is it?

Well firstly you can fiddle your costs with property...

[Bjauck]

You are dodging the question. You claimed property has a tax advantage that shares do not have. What is it? Calculate the returns (capital gains and income) the average investor in NZ shares has derived over a period of say 15 years and compare them with the returns derived by the average investor in NZ property. Then calculate the percentage of those respective total returns that are paid as income tax.

If you have worked out tax law concerning dividends, I congratulate you. I do not want to continue this discussion with you.

[fungus pudding]

Calculate the returns (capital gains and income) the average investor in NZ shares has derived over a period of say 15 years and compare them with the returns derived by the average investor in NZ property. Then calculate the percentage of those respective total returns that are paid as income tax.

If you have worked out tax law concerning dividends, I congratulate you. I do not want to continue this discussion with you.

I can understand why you do not wish to continue this discussion. It's because you know you are wrong. The first part of your post is pure nonsense. The difference in % of gain paid in tax is because one will have performed better - not because of tax law.The truth is there is no difference in tax treatment between shares and real estate. Pure and simple.

[Raz]

What's the difference between rental property and any other investment as far as tax goes?

You can run at a tax loss for a a extended period of time, a business model set up with no intention to make a surplus and get away with no IRD challenge, try doing that with any other small business and see what happens.

[fungus pudding]

You can run at a tax loss for a a extended period of time, a business model set up with no intention to make a surplus and get away with no IRD challenge, try doing that with any other small business and see what happens.

You can do that, but with property it is open to challenge. If the IRD consider it was set up with no intention to ever make a profit. or make a profit within a reasonable time, then they will disallow interest claims.
Of course you can run a small business at a loss for a long time, although no one would want to. Tax is payable on profit - not turnover.

[Bjauck]

I can understand why you do not wish to continue this discussion. It's because you know you are wrong. The first part of your post is pure nonsense. The difference in % of gain paid in tax is because one will have performed better - not because of tax law.The truth is there is no difference in tax treatment between shares and real estate. Pure and simple. I could not leave it...if something "performs better" then surely it should have at least the same % paid as income tax (if not a greater % under our progressive tax system). The comparative ease of raising mortgages for property investment enables the investor to use the tax system to leverage tax free capital gains whilst using even negative gearing to reduce income tax on the investors other (non-property) income.

It would be great if everything was "pure and simple".

[BlackPeter]

I could not leave it...if something "performs better" then surely it should have at least the same % paid as income tax (if not a greater % under our progressive tax system). The comparative ease of raising mortgages for property investment enables the investor to use the tax system to leverage tax free capital gains whilst using even negative gearing to reduce income tax on the investors other (non-property) income.

It would be great if everything was "pure and simple".

folks ... interesting discussion, but wouldn't it be more appropriate to direct this into a more suitable thread? How is the tax treatment of shares and properties related to the average age of investors?

[fungus pudding]

I could not leave it...if something "performs better" then surely it should have at least the same % paid as income tax (if not a greater % under our progressive tax system). The comparative ease of raising mortgages for property investment enables the investor to use the tax system to leverage tax free capital gains whilst using even negative gearing to reduce income tax on the investors other (non-property) income.

It would be great if everything was "pure and simple".

Tax free capital gains are available to share investors, but traders are taxed. Intent is the test. Same applies to real estate.
Yes, real estate is easier to borrow against, but that's not a difference in tax treatment that you claim exists.

[Raz]

You can do that, but with property it is open to challenge. If the IRD consider it was set up with no intention to ever make a profit. or make a profit within a reasonable time, then they will disallow interest claims.
Of course you can run a small business at a loss for a long time, although no one would want to. Tax is payable on profit - not turnover.

I have owned a CA firm for 20 years, yes property is open for challenge yet in my experience they never do. That is the experience of my peers as well. Try more than five years of losses with any other businesses and you are highly likely to be challenged. If you are planning to spin of IP yes you may have several years of losses. One example is the IP for GPS in mobile devices... the key element was developed in NZ and sold offshore after nearly ten years of losses:-) They had the IRD all over them for the final four years.

[Bjauck]

folks ... interesting discussion, but wouldn't it be more appropriate to direct this into a more suitable thread? How is the tax treatment of shares and properties related to the average age of investors? Sorry - my fault when posting with my age, another poster took issue with several other comments I included with the post. Other posters had included information not directly related to age.

[trader_jackson]

Tax free capital gains are available to share investors, but traders are taxed. Intent is the test. Same applies to real estate.
Yes, real estate is easier to borrow against, but that's not a difference in tax treatment that you claim exists.

Although I am not entirely sure myself, I do know that property investment (and all the income and expenses associated with it) is far less black and white, meaning you can 'get away' with alot more tax deductible things (eg if you can borrow more as a % of capital on a house vs shares, you can obviously claim more back)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11543122
Interesting article here

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11450259
It is (almost) common knowledge that "tax law gives property an unfair advantage over other investment classes such as equities."

[Bjauck]

Tax free capital gains are available to share investors, but traders are taxed. Intent is the test. Same applies to real estate.
Yes, real estate is easier to borrow against, but that's not a difference in tax treatment that you claim exists. Even if the tax "treatment"is the same the actual tax advantage may remain.The Dividend /Interest definitions and comparisons and other treatments are interesting to look at.

[fungus pudding]

I have owned a CA firm for 20 years, yes property is open for challenge yet in my experience they never do. That is the experience of my peers as well.

I wouldn't say never. Years ago they used to enquire about every property loss claim with a standard letter asking if property was rented to relatives, when would the rent increase, why was it bought etc. You may remember that, although they seem to have given up on that one. You may be aware of AMP selling 40 odd buildings a few years ago. Most of them were leased to Woolworths in the 60s for 40 year terms and contained no rent review clauses. They were no doubt an embarrassment to AMP (the great investors) so they sold them off based on yield - ridiculously low prices compared to intrinsic value. Friends of mine bought one and the IRD came down hard on them and disallowed interest claimed because they read the lease and determined the property could not make a profit for 20 odd years. There are other cases I know of, but you are right - they often don't ask.

[Raz]

Aged 47, started with shares at 17 when mum & myself inherited a large sum from an uncle. By time I figured it all out sold Brierley and RJI at the peak, did not do so well in aussie resource shares...overall more by luck than good management. Set up a business here and in the US, US went very well. Learnt smart operators make a living in NZ while it will make you a fortune given the market size in the US. Main investment have been property in overseas international cities while continuing to develop business interests. More long term hold on shares until the past five years... now have the time to trade. Have picked shares early like Apple however have tended to sell well before the top. No complaints thou.

In the markets you never know what will be next, on balance I could have lived on that initial investment I received as a teenage and never worked however that is only with the benefit of hindsight.

ps Yes on commercial, was think more thinking residential for most small investors here..

[fungus pudding]

Although I am not entirely sure myself, I do know that property investment (and all the income and expenses associated with it) is far less black and white, meaning you can 'get away' with alot more tax deductible things (eg if you can borrow more as a % of capital on a house vs shares, you can obviously claim more back)


It is (almost) common knowledge that "tax law gives property an unfair advantage over other investment classes such as equities."

No. It's a common misconception.

[RGR367]

No. It's a common misconception.

Yup. Sorry guys, I have to side with FP on this one.

[RGR367]

63 and still on shares on gut feel alone :)
My first share was BNZ. That did not turned out well especially on my wife's impression of gaining something on shares. So I kept my learning about shares to a "minimum" after that :mad ;:
Tried rental property in mid '90's and reselling it for some good capital gain but still felt that wasn't really for me.
Mortgage free and I'm also holding on to a 7 digit portfolio comprising of more than 20 shares.

[Teeps]

38.. been investing for a few years in equities, but for over 20 years in property..

[corran]

Great thread! I'm 41 years old. I bought my first shares about 10 years ago. The first ones I bought were ATM and PEB back when they were both dogs nobody wanted to own or talk about. If only I'd held those and not bothered buying or selling any others I'd be way better off than I am now but c'est la vie :-)

I've been living away from NZ for 16 years now. Left on a 2 year OE to Europe and then met a girl, etc, etc.

[Bjauck]

Yup. Sorry guys, I have to side with FP on this one. Interesting research on how the tax system creates actual tax advantages (compared with other investments) for investing in real estate, both owner-occupied and investor. Explains the reason why NZers (compared with other countries) invest so much more of their money into real estate.
The Tax System And Housing Demand In NZ http://www.victoria.ac.nz/sacl/centres-and-institutes/cagtr/twg/publications/5-the-tax-system-and-housing-demand-in-newzealand-reservebank.pdf

[Biscuit]

Interesting research on how the tax system creates actual tax advantages (compared with other investments) for investing in real estate, both owner-occupied and investor. Explains the reason why NZers (compared with other countries) invest so much more of their money into real estate.
The Tax System And Housing Demand In NZ http://www.victoria.ac.nz/sacl/centres-and-institutes/cagtr/twg/publications/5-the-tax-system-and-housing-demand-in-newzealand-reservebank.pdf

No, that is a comparison between property investing and income from interest, not investing in the share market.

[Biscuit]

Interesting research on how the tax system creates actual tax advantages (compared with other investments) for investing in real estate, both owner-occupied and investor. Explains the reason why NZers (compared with other countries) invest so much more of their money into real estate.
The Tax System And Housing Demand In NZ http://www.victoria.ac.nz/sacl/centres-and-institutes/cagtr/twg/publications/5-the-tax-system-and-housing-demand-in-newzealand-reservebank.pdf

Investors who advocate capital gains tax on investment property should have a bit of a hard think about what that would mean, carried to its logical conclusion, read the article from Treasury: "All else equal, these distortions imply it is often more
tax efficient to accrue capital gains than interest earnings, and it is tax efficient to own your own home if it is unmortgaged or lightly mortgaged."

[lissica]

Interesting research on how the tax system creates actual tax advantages (compared with other investments) for investing in real estate, both owner-occupied and investor. Explains the reason why NZers (compared with other countries) invest so much more of their money into real estate.
The Tax System And Housing Demand In NZ http://www.victoria.ac.nz/sacl/centres-and-institutes/cagtr/twg/publications/5-the-tax-system-and-housing-demand-in-newzealand-reservebank.pdf


The paper states that tax treatment is the same between shares and property (page 2). The tax advantage is between shares/property vs interest bearing asssets (eg term deposits):

"The conceptual basis for taxation of rental housing is broadly comparable to the conceptual basis for the taxation of share investments. On this basis, there is “no tax advantage” to investing in property. However, while capital gains are probably treated in similar ways, there is still a substantive distortion, which is between assets that tend to accrue capital gains over time (houses and equities2) and interest bearing assets."

In the footnotes, they go on to say that property may have a greater tax advantage because of the comparable ease with which to leverage into property. However, that is not a difference in tax treatment, it is simply an effect of leverage.

"2 Other commentators, such as the IMF, have made the separate point that favourable tax treatment of capital gains is more of an advantage for housing investors than share investors because portfolios of housing can be more highly geared without attracting undue risk. We don’t deal with that issue in this paper. "

[lissica]

Investors who advocate capital gains tax on investment property should have a bit of a hard think about what that would mean, carried to its logical conclusion, read the article from Treasury: "All else equal, these distortions imply it is often more
tax efficient to accrue capital gains than interest earnings, and it is tax efficient to own your own home if it is unmortgaged or lightly mortgaged."

Capital gains tax is complicated, and if it is applied to property, it will likely be applied to shares also.

It is easier to deal with capital gains tax with a chunky investment like property. When you sell property, it's relatively easy to work out the capital gain. With shares, people buy them in smaller parcels at different times, there may be share splits, dividend reinvestment plans, rights issues, company mergers etc. It becomes a mess.

Not only that, inflation has to be taken into account. If a house or shares double in value over 10yrs, but inflation has also resulted in the money being worth half the original value, is it a tax on capital gain, or an expropriation of capital by the state?

[Biscuit]

.

Not only that, inflation has to be taken into account. If a house or shares double in value over 10yrs, but inflation has also resulted in the money being worth half the original value, is it a tax on capital gain, or an expropriation of capital by the state?

Sounds like Treasury think inflation is also a "capital gain": "However, while capital gains are probably treated in similar ways, there is still a substantive distortion, which is between assets
that tend to accrue capital gains over time (houses and equities2) and interest bearing assets. This distortion was particularly significant when New Zealand and other economies had higher inflation
rate in the 1970s and early 1980s"

[Bjauck]

...In the footnotes, they go on to say that property may have a greater tax advantage because of the comparable ease with which to leverage into property. However, that is not a difference in tax treatment, it is simply an effect of leverage.

"2 Other commentators, such as the IMF, have made the separate point that favourable tax treatment of capital gains is more of an advantage for housing investors than share investors because portfolios of housing can be more highly geared without attracting undue risk. We don’t deal with that issue in this paper. " The ability to gear to leverage untaxed capital gains definitely makes property appealing to some and is alluded to in another article worth reading: Mark Lister: Property versus shares http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11543122

[Biscuit]

The ability to gear to leverage untaxed capital gains definitely makes property appealing to some and is alluded to in another article worth reading: Mark Lister: Property versus shares http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11543122

Maybe just acknowledge your statement was incorrect? Also, many of my capital gains on the sharemarket were leaveraged using property as collateral....

[lissica]

The ability to gear to leverage untaxed capital gains definitely makes property appealing to some and is alluded to in another article worth reading: Mark Lister: Property versus shares http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11543122

One can leverage into shares too, if you can stomach the volatility- margin loans, instalment warrants, CFDs etc. When I say it is comparatively easier to leverage into property, it is simply because 1)Banks will lend you more and 2)at lower interest rates


Sounds like Treasury think inflation is also a "capital gain": "However, while capital gains are probably treated in similar ways, there is still a substantive distortion, which is between assets
that tend to accrue capital gains over time (houses and equities2) and interest bearing assets. This distortion was particularly significant when New Zealand and other economies had higher inflation
rate in the 1970s and early 1980s"

True...although at very high inflation, the real value of the mortgage also erodes quickly, and is locked in at the purchase date.

[Bjauck]

Maybe just acknowledge your statement was incorrect? Also, many of my capital gains on the sharemarket were leaveraged using property as collateral.... Tax treatment between shares and investor housing is similar, provided dividends and rent are assumed analogous. It does not mean that there is no actual tax advantage for investor real estate in real-life situations due to the amount and ease of leveraging.

[Biscuit]

True...although at very high inflation, the real value of the mortgage also erodes quickly, and is locked in at the purchase date.

true, good point

[lissica]

Tax treatment between shares and investor housing is similar, provided dividends and rent are assumed analogous. It does not mean that there is no actual tax advantage for investor real estate in real-life situations due to the amount and ease of leveraging.

They are, except dividends are often imputed.

Leveraging into shares isn't difficult. People don't tend to do it as much because of volatility. For residential property LVRs of 0.8 is common, and I think about 0.5 for commercial property and margin loans would be more usual. If you use instruments like CFDs, you can leverage up into the millions a little too easily.

[Biscuit]

Tax treatment between shares and investor housing is similar, provided dividends and rent are assumed analogous. It does not mean that there is no actual tax advantage for investor real estate in real-life situations due to the amount and ease of leveraging.

I agree that in practice the average property investor might tend to get more of the "tax-free capital gain" than the average share investor who does not benefit much from leaverage (although most public companies are leaveraged, so even that is not straightforward). I do not understand any investor who advocates any form of capital gains tax, but maybe that is another thread.

[artemis]

Property v shares. It's not just about tax, leverage and capital gains.

Owning rental property, especially residential, can be a minefield and those 'explosions' can cost big. Even for the highly experienced owners, though more so for the less experienced. Think - tenants, maintenance, existing and changing legislation, carrying vacancies, incompetent property managers, and did I mention tenants?

[Bjauck]

...Also, many of my capital gains on the sharemarket were leaveraged using property as collateral.... Interesting. If the loan you obtained was due to your ownership of the real estate, then the return you earned, as a result of what you did with that loan, should be attributed to that real estate too. That would mean, it would make the ownership of your real estate even more profitable, increasing the attraction of investing in property.

The reverse is possible but very unlikely - borrowing money to buy real estate, using shares (and not the property itself) as collateral. For one thing the interest rate would likely be very much higher.

[alistar_mid]

Property v shares. It's not just about tax, leverage and capital gains.

Owning rental property, especially residential, can be a minefield and those 'explosions' can cost big. Even for the highly experienced owners, though more so for the less experienced. Think - tenants, maintenance, existing and changing legislation, carrying vacancies, incompetent property managers, and did I mention tenants?

good point artemis frog, not to mention leaky buildings lol. But even cap gains managed to cover that and then some

[artemis]

good point artemis frog, not to mention leaky buildings lol. But even cap gains managed to cover that and then some

Maybe but there are property owners who don't live in Auckland.

Also I did not mention P contamination. The recent publicity about P is about state tenants, and the numbers are alarming. But actually the numbers will be far worse in the private sector - tenants and home owners who look respectable, have jobs, and can actually afford $100 a point. Bye bye capital gain .....

Bodies corporate can also be a nightmare.

Some residential property investors must wish they had invested in nice blue chip dividend paying shares.

[voltage]

how do property trusts stack up compared to houses. Precinct properties own a lot in Auckland.

[Beagle]

This fat grey bean counting dog is 54 and has been working on refining and tweaking his corporate B.S. meter for 34 years. Occasionally the bloody thing still gives a faulty reading.

[Microsloth]

50 graduate of the dismal science, still investing, still learning

[fungus pudding]

how do property trusts stack up compared to houses. Precinct properties own a lot in Auckland.


Very well in my opinion but lack the ability to gear in - although the trust will have geared their purchases. I cut my teeth as a residential investor in the 60s, and although I try not to sell, but would rather accumulate, I couldn't get out of residential properties quick enough. Tenants are not easy and they are hard on properties. I've had a lot to do with prop. investors and with no exceptions find they underestimate the costs of maintenance and updating. It's common to get a small plumbing job done for a grand or two that hasn't been foreseen or allowed for, same with all trade work. Houses do require expensive maintenance and regular renovations. And whatever the life of your carpet and décor is at home - halve it with tenants! Then there's vacancies, running around or paying a prop. mngr. - risky if you get the wrong one. Anyway Bill Rowling came along with a ridiculous spec tax which sent prices through the roof (for those days) as it dried up the market. I did very well by cashing up and buying small commercial. I was making a reasonable living by the time I hit 30. So I retired and just ran a small operation not wanting much beyond a living and plenty of play time. These days I prefer LPTs although I still get a good income from direct ownership of commercial. I could and should raise a mortgage and expand but there's not much point. . All the works done for you with LPTs and the risk is wide spread. e.g. if you purchase a building and have a mortgage you are at the mercy of the tenant and the market he/she is in. No dealing with tenants, solicitors, valuers, real estate agents, insurance brokers, no maintenance - no tax returns because they are PIES. It's bliss. They also have the advantage of instant liquidity - for those who don't wish to make a permanent income and leave them to beneficiaries; but the massive advantage over individual ownership is risk or safety. Put a pile of dough into a building and lose a tenant, youll lose sleep as well. As opposed to residential - commercial or industrial properties can take time to re- lease and can be very costly. With LPTs it's hard to panic when they lose a tenant when it represents, say 1% or 2% of their portfolio. So I'm very happy with lpts. If I was starting again I would simply buy into these trusts - never sell and have as a goal increasing my dividend return every year until I was making a decent living - compounding the income. Like everything in investing there are no certainties so work it out for yourselves. But for me it's real estate and doing it through LPTs means you are getting professional management built in and if you really want to get involved, most of them have the odd investor presentation up and down the country. I've been to the odd one, just because the afternoon tea catering is quite good!

[voltage]

Thanks fp, very insightful. There is a smartshare etf NPF - nz property - would you use this a mix of them all.

[fungus pudding]

Thanks fp, very insightful. There is a smartshare etf NPF - nz property - would you use this a mix of them all.

I'm sorry but I know little about NPF. I'd forgotten it exists in fact. Isn't it more a pension scheme? I just had a quick google and see the first 6 trusts they are in are ARG, STR, PFI, PCT, KPG, PCT; they are the ones - the only ones I hold. I'm not sure what the advantage or disadvantage of buying in through this scheme is but no doubt it would add a layer of cost. I can't imagine there is any advantage. It's so easy to buy in individual funds - and if using an online broker costs aren't massive. But you really need to dig a little deeper to know the ins and outs. I would say I like the mix. KPG good for retail, PCT - top quality office, PFI excellent industrial warehouse buildings, GMT for a bit of development, ARG and STR, a good mix of all sorts. the total spread equals hundreds of tenants. And nearly all in the Auckland market which as we all know is the best growth territory. Share prices have done a bit of a leap lately so whether time is right to but is anyone's guess. Wouldn't worry me as I'm there till they put me in my box - but that's not everyone's view. - Good luck.

Footnote. Have a look at the web-sites for each of these companies. Most show a tenant list, and that's impressive. They are landlords to the big, rock solid companies and they show the average of lease terms. Most have a say 5 to 6 years average remaining on leases. Gives them plenty of time to work on any likely vacancies and future planning.

[Gunny]

61 started just after 2008 crash and got in on the lows. By pure luck not design, many pluses and minuses since but up over all.

Estimate will be much better at this game in about another 50 years or so, maybe.

Gunny

[Regi]

Anyone younger than 19?

Wanted to invest since about 15 really but couldn't obviously (age and no money)... so I started a small airsoft & paintball online business that went well while at school then in my final year of High School I was able to start investing and used the money I earned between wanting to and being able to invest to kick start myself :)

[King1212]

I'm sorry but I know little about NPF. I'd forgotten it exists in fact. Isn't it more a pension scheme? I just had a quick google and see the first 6 trusts they are in are ARG, STR, PFI, PCT, KPG, PCT; they are the ones - the only ones I hold. I'm not sure what the advantage or disadvantage of buying in through this scheme is but no doubt it would add a layer of cost. I can't imagine there is any advantage. It's so easy to buy in individual funds - and if using an online broker costs aren't massive. But you really need to dig a little deeper to know the ins and outs. I would say I like the mix. KPG good for retail, PCT - top quality office, PFI excellent industrial warehouse buildings, GMT for a bit of development, ARG and STR, a good mix of all sorts. the total spread equals hundreds of tenants. And nearly all in the Auckland market which as we all know is the best growth territory. Share prices have done a bit of a leap lately so whether time is right to but is anyone's guess. Wouldn't worry me as I'm there till they put me in my box - but that's not everyone's view. - Good luck.

Footnote. Have a look at the web-sites for each of these companies. Most show a tenant list, and that's impressive. They are landlords to the big, rock solid companies and they show the average of lease terms. Most have a say 5 to 6 years average remaining on leases. Gives them plenty of time to work on any likely vacancies and future planning.

So FP, if you would choose above property share, which one will u invest in?

[clips]

54 fiddled about with shares forever... 25 years in residential rentals has been good to me thanks to capital gains and negative gearing.
Taking shares seriously since yr 2000. Believer in the buy quality, hold and grow policy.

[fungus pudding]

So FP, if you would choose above property share, which one will u invest in?

I would do a bit of research which I've been really slack on and just opted for a mix. I don't read prospectuses and so on although I did when I first bought in, when trying to learn about PIES introduced about 7 years ago.. Offhand I'd probably go for STR - used to be DNZ. Not saying that they are the best, but if I had a one only choice they cover the range of commercial/industrial. On current price the return is just over 5% - that's tax paid so possibly up to 7.5% depend on your marginal tax, plus any capital gain of course - which makes for a higher return every year if you hold.
They seem to have competent management. Excellent tenants and a mix of retail, office, industrial and light industrial, (warehousing), but don't take too much out of all that. Read their web sites. I just look at the pictures of buildings. I have huge confidence in C and I properties that are well chosen and well managed. I'm happy owning a small share of lots of bricks :-)

http://www.strideproperty.co.nz/property/

[King1212]

I would do a bit of research which I've been really slack on and just opted for a mix. I don't read prospectuses and so on although I did when I first bought in, when trying to learn about PIES introduced about 7 years ago.. Offhand I'd probably go for STR - used to be DNZ. Not saying that they are the best, but if I had a one only choice they cover the range of commercial/industrial. On current price the return is just over 5% - that's tax paid so possibly up to 7.5% depend on your marginal tax, plus any capital gain of course - which makes for a higher return every year if you hold.
They seem to have competent management. Excellent tenants and a mix of retail, office, industrial and light industrial, (warehousing), but don't take too much out of all that. Read their web sites. I just look at the pictures of buildings. I have huge confidence in C and I properties that are well chosen and well managed. I'm happy owning a small share of lots of bricks :-)

http://www.strideproperty.co.nz/property/

looking good, just heard about thier Northwest mall is a ghost town....looking to buy a parcel of property share that will hold forever as part of my portfolio.

[fungus pudding]

looking good, just heard about thier Northwest mall is a ghost town....looking to buy a parcel of property share that will hold forever as part of my portfolio.

I've read that in the Herald. Doesn't concern me at all. It might take a while to settle. Initial tenants in a retail mall often struggle. But by all means be aware of it and do your research - talk to the locals if you live close by. I don't know what % of their portfolio it is. Look at the portfolio of 40 odd buildings I think with pretty strong tenant names. Further development around there is on the drawing board I think. I don't know. I live in the sth island so I just look at the pretty pictures. :-)

[ace5715]

Very informative thread.
Age 41,
First investments were Telstra, Contact and Precinct (AMP Office Trust at the time) when they were all IPOs. Only really got into shares properly back in 2013, when I started to take a proper active interest in the share market. About this time I also stumbled across sharetrader, spend a lot of time reading the forums but don't feel I yet have enough knowledge to make a significant contribution. Hopefully I can continue to learn and make more of a contribution to the sharetrader community in the future.

[Jim]

Very informative thread.
Age 41,
First investments were Telstra, Contact and Precinct (AMP Office Trust at the time) when they were all IPOs. Only really got into shares properly back in 2013, when I started to take a proper active interest in the share market. About this time I also stumbled across sharetrader, spend a lot of time reading the forums but don't feel I yet have enough knowledge to make a significant contribution. Hopefully I can continue to learn and make more of a contribution to the sharetrader community in the future.

Age 60 First buy was Corporate Investments Ltd changed to Montana Wines. In the early days (late 1980s) the IPOs were a steal like Colonial, National Mutuals, AIA etc, Best buy are AIA, FPH, RYM, and SUM. Worst are Babcock and Brown (BBI) ASX listed, Feltex and Newcall. Still working full time and receiving passive income from shares. Looking forward to retire in 2 years time

[Fox]

20 here. First shares were bought when I was 18 a few years ago. I've always been very financially aware at a young age, but am now very interested in NZ capital markets and looking at various investments. Nice to see so many other young ones such as myself, this is such an excellent platform to build knowledge from some of the senior members that I look forward to hearing from throughout the threads.

[benjitara]

32. Got in around 27-28. Hold a focussed portfolio which I think is at it's best when kept around 6-8 stocks. Have had success following a "value" investing method. So far so good although I do believe the last 5-6 years may well be seen as some of the most extraordinary for returns given the combination of a strong nz economy and low interest rates. Happy to continue the market ride until they put me in the ground. cheers.

[Yoda]

56, worked in Peru for 10 yrs when I was 25-35. , but never intended making any money there, just went to help out in a poor area. Came back with no money. Needed to make ends meet and plan for future expenses, like children's education, weddings and retirement so my wife took an extra day at work and we put it into a rental property in 2001. Capital gain did the rest . Oh the beauty of leverage ! 10% down and make gains on 100 % of the houses . Started to go into shares with some inheritance money, but started off not making any money for lots of stress. however, It is more interesting that tenant tribunals.

Plan was to buy and hold long term ...... but when I gained and lost $150k + with PEB and WYN,( Came out with a few K ahead ) I soon got fed up of that , and now I don't get so emotionally attached, and sell instead of putting my head in the sand, when the 120 line gets hit. They go back up sometimes, but that ok . Just buy them back.

I still love my rentals, especially in this last 2 years :-)
Its hard to beat the leverage of mortgage property, but they do take looking after .

My advice : Buy a house, buy shares if a good company like FPH, that has a nice steady up trend .
Invest in your health and spiritual well-being . You only live once, live it well .

[Biscuit]

Invest in your health and spiritual well-being . You only live once, live it well .

hmm.... I sense the force is strong in you Yoda...

[artemis]

..... I couldn't get out of residential properties quick enough. Tenants are not easy and they are hard on properties. I've had a lot to do with prop. investors and with no exceptions find they underestimate the costs of maintenance and updating. It's common to get a small plumbing job done for a grand or two that hasn't been foreseen or allowed for, same with all trade work. Houses do require expensive maintenance and regular renovations. And whatever the life of your carpet and décor is at home - halve it with tenants! Then there's vacancies, running around or paying a prop. mngr. - risky if you get the wrong one.....

Agree 100%, but would say that we have a few long term residential rentals. But we are in a different situation to many smaller property investors as we used these as a basis to build a family property maintenance business.

Plumbing (and drainage)- yep, eyewateringly large bills though gasfitter bills beat them hands down, partly because of compliance requirements. We now have a plumbing apprentice in the family ....

I would be highly unlikely to recommend residential rentals to novices.

[Well Endowed]

Hi All, I'm 31. I've been investing since I was 14. My first purchases was Contact Energy in 1999 and a punt in Certified organics (CER) around about the same time. CER was my first long shot penny dreadful, and a horrible investment (and good lesson) which resulted in loss of +90% of my small investment over approx 24mth timeframe. I've learnt a fair bit and traded actively through the past 17 years, doing reasonably well (considerably better than bank rates & managed funds which I'm happy with)

I largely invest in growth stocks, and aside from Trilogy and Scales on the NZX, I've invested primarily in ASX small-caps, currently with a medical/technology focus, as I feel at my age - still relatively young i think, I'm happy wearing a few losses in search of some bigger gains.

I appreciate a heap of posters on here for their input, which is far more balanced than the crazy ramping Hotcopper punters. Hopefully will see a few more over on the ASX pages from time to time.

[RGR367]

What would really make this thread interesting is to see how many investors are deriving a living from their spoils as opposed to those who have other incomes, and whether they are working to replacing a wage or salary with investment income. It interests me particularly as I know many property investors who have made it their sole income, but very few who have done the same with shares.

Like to answer this now FP as I kinda missed your sort of question earlier. What I'm getting on dividends alone is way more than the average income so a very nice addition to what I'm still getting from full employment.

[BeeBop]

Hi All, I'm 31. I've been investing since I was 14. My first purchases was Contact Energy in 1999 and a punt in Certified organics (CER) around about the same time. CER was my first long shot penny dreadful, and a horrible investment (and good lesson) which resulted in loss of +90% of my small investment over approx 24mth timeframe. I've learnt a fair bit and traded actively through the past 17 years, doing reasonably well (considerably better than bank rates & managed funds which I'm happy with)

I largely invest in growth stocks, and aside from Trilogy and Scales on the NZX, I've invested primarily in ASX small-caps, currently with a medical/technology focus, as I feel at my age - still relatively young i think, I'm happy wearing a few losses in search of some bigger gains.

I appreciate a heap of posters on here for their input, which is far more balanced than the crazy ramping Hotcopper punters. Hopefully will see a few more over on the ASX pages from time to time.

He he he, CER and Wilson were my "lessons". Actually had CER when it was AQL...husband spent nearly one year trading it when we were in Asia, making back my lost 2,000 in 200 increments....took some out but left some in as CER..think we even bought one of their products - didn't boost sales though! Good thing was, learnt big lessons then...unfortunately the potential loss was over one months salary - now it is just a drop but it hurt a lot then!

[hamish]

Age 46.
Finally started investing on NZX 21/1/16 and past 2 months after years of contemplation. Started on rentals 7 years ago, now adding / spreading the risk I guess. After research on 4-traders and Forsyth Mobile App, have now circa 90K portfolio in what I hope are a steady balance of yield+growth picks in CEN, FBU, MEL, MFT, SUM, AIR, IFT, HBL and recently TWR. All on plus side so far, so happy to date. Managed to decide to start investing equities after the Jan16 downwards, so some gd timing in that respect
Really enjoy reading everyones your comments. Thx

[Vaygor1]

i'm 36 :) and a lady (for diversification)

Not so sure about the diversification.. more ladies than gents at the recent(ish) Auckland ST meeting you attended I thought Blendy… even had trouble identifying the table because of it…would have been easier if Roger had his dog on display. :eek2:
I turned 48 recently… nearly able to peer over that hill in front of me. :)

[craic]

It looks like I am one of the older variety. I am 78 (last year) and started in the 84/85 mob and lost a few shirts. Eventually bought a computer and worked out that everything has a number, a value and if you work from that angle, you can't go wrong. Trips overseas each year are paid for in advance from the market, including six trips back to Europe and even more to Australia. The house and land has been owned for yonks, the car the boat, the tractor etc. etc. are all out the back.So saving for retirement is long past and I can spend my cash on anything from a new chainsaw to a day at the races or a heap of Easter Eggs from the Warehouse today.

[Stranger_Danger]

I'm 39. Been interested in investing/wealth creation pretty much as far back as I can remember eg I have specific memories of the 87 crash, even though I would have been 11 lol.

Equities have always been a sideline to my "day job" but I'm retiring later this year so will end up a "fulltime" investor (whatever that means).

Looking forward to being able to do a lot more reading, and, shockingly enough, be able to attend my first annual meeting of a listed co(I just haven't had the time).

[King1212]

I'm 39. Been interested in investing/wealth creation pretty much as far back as I can remember eg I have specific memories of the 87 crash, even though I would have been 11 lol.

Equities have always been a sideline to my "day job" but I'm retiring later this year so will end up a "fulltime" investor (whatever that means).

Looking forward to being able to do a lot more reading, and, shockingly enough, be able to attend my first annual meeting of a listed co(I just haven't had the time).

retire at 39...wow good on u!!:t_up: Wish I could do that....

[malus]

56 - started with a parcel of TNL (Transport Nelson) when 15 after visiting Wellington Stock Exchange on a commerce class trip.

Fortunate to be watching from the side-lines when '87 crash hit...at the time recovering from repaying the $14,000 mortgage off my first residential, interest rate rose from 7% in 1979 to 24% in 1984... no fixed term/fixed rate with the banks in the those dark days with Piggy Muldoon!!:sneaky2:

By 2007 my share portfolio had grown... and got hammered in value... but the dividends still came in, biggest casualty was Transfield (now Broadspectrum), the rest recovered. Peeved though that Mr Market had put up the "SALE - everything's a bargain" sign and I'm stretched subdividing and building a residential and buying a commercial investment property:huh: best I could do at the time was scrape up some cash for AIA at $1.65!

Equity is held 65% commercial property, 19% residential property, 15% Shares 0 % cash (it's all out working).

Rearranged my self employed life in 2004 after reading Rich Dad Poor Dad and others and have been polishing up my passive income skills since:lol:.

[Roadrunner]

51 years young lol.....I`ve been investing since my early 20`s in the UK....Had some real disasters along the way.Marconi going to the wall and a later on a speculative penny share called African Gold going the same way,some very hard lessons seeing the then modest nest-egg disappear.Fortunately I had some nice returns that kept me in the game.Moved to NZ 14 years ago and after a rocky start on the NZX things have been going very well.Learning all the time and constantly reading everything I can.Tend to go for growth stocks and rarely diversify.Prefer to pick one or two stocks and hold for a bit longer,occassionally I will be in for the shorter term and cherry pick.Trying to stick to a few rules of thumb and this has helped me make less stuff ups,which makes a big difference :)

[Lewylewylewy]

African gold? Sounds like a winner. Is that the one run by the prince of Nigeria? I think i got invited to an investment opportunity from him personally a while back

[percy]

African gold? Sounds like a winner. Is that the one run by the prince of Nigeria? I think i got invited to an investment opportunity from him personally a while back

Can't see how you could ever go wrong with a company with such a wonderful name such as African Gold.
I currently hold RUM;Rum Jungle Resources. A phosphate company.!!

[Roadrunner]

African gold? Sounds like a winner. Is that the one run by the prince of Nigeria? I think i got invited to an investment opportunity from him personally a while back

Haha!......it was a bit like that.Prefer Oceania Gold these days!:t_up:

[SCOTTY]

At 71 I have been "dabbling" since about 1967 initially with a $50 "investment" into L&M Oil. All sorts of exciting adventures since. Currently very excited as have just received an email from the Unclaimed Property Division, British Government Legal Department, regarding an unnamed distant relatives estate. Hopefully it is a substantial sum which require plenty of advice here on Sharetrader. :)

I was very fortunate to have Nelson Country Share Broker, Bob Gunn (Owen Robert Gunn) looking after me when I was getting started in 1967 or thereabouts. Sadly Bob recently passed away at the age of 86. Bob put me into some great stocks,the standout being the Auckland Gas Co at 97/98c - selling out a couple of years later about 1972 @ $2.25. MSD Speirs another Bob Gunn Special. Bob later gave up share broking to become a full time investor and professional director of a number of major NZ companies. RIP Bob Gunn and thank you.

[percy]

At 71 I have been "dabbling" since about 1967 initially with a $50 "investment" into L&M Oil. All sorts of exciting adventures since. Currently very excited as have just received an email from the Unclaimed Property Division, British Government Legal Department, regarding an unnamed distant relatives estate. Hopefully it is a substantial sum which require plenty of advice here on Sharetrader. :)

Great news.
You are therefore "well positioned."!!!

[SCOTTY]

Great news.
You are therefore "well positioned."!!!

And you're the man with the great ideas. Easy Street here I come:)

[BeeBop]

Great news.
You are therefore "well positioned."!!!

Excellent! When I worked in Malaysia, I twice some less educated workers come and ask me about these things prior to them sending off their money order. Possibly they could have become very rich if they hadn't taken my advice (he he he).

[rollypolly22]

I'm 23 and first started investing when i was 20. I was first advised by my father to invest some of my savings in FPH back in 2013. Since then I've slowly been investing more and more. New to sharetrader and really enjoying the discussions!

[airedale]

I never bothered much with the market when I was younger. I had a an insurance policy with CML the insurance company, then they de-mutualised and I was given shares worth around $2.00 from memory. I sold them for $6.00 and that piqued my interest. Later I was working for Ports of Auckland when it was the Auckland Harbour Board. The port was floated {so to speak} and listed on the NZX. I got shares at $1.60 and the shares eventually went to about $8.00 before it was de-listed. I began to see the possibilities. I almost forgot to mention my shares in the Waitemata Electric Power Board. They were a gift which trebled in size.
A pattern emerges: if an institution is being privatised or sold for idealogical reasons like Rogernomics then take advantage of it {whatever your politics or personal feelings}. The current crop of power companies are a good example. There was also Telecom and Telstra, both floated around $2.00 before going much higher.
I have started to digress, but that is part of my story over the last 25 +years. Current age 75 and my family still call me sprightly most days:).

[RGR367]

Just been told that NZ Shareholder's Association (NZSA) has just started doing a survey too about the age brackets and amount of money invested by their members into the Market. Anonymously of course :cool: Any interested member of the Association could probably ask for the breakdown once the survey is completed so we could compare it here.

[SCOTTY]

At 71 I have been "dabbling" since about 1967 initially with a $50 "investment" into L&M Oil. All sorts of exciting adventures since. Currently very excited as have just received an email from the Unclaimed Property Division, British Government Legal Department, regarding an unnamed distant relatives estate. Hopefully it is a substantial sum which require plenty of advice here on Sharetrader. :)

I was very fortunate to have Nelson Country Share Broker, Bob Gunn (Owen Robert Gunn) looking after me when I was getting started in 1967 or thereabouts. Sadly Bob recently passed away at the age of 86. Bob put me into some great stocks,the standout being the Auckland Gas Co at 97/98c - selling out a couple of years later about 1972 @ $2.25. MSD Speirs another Bob Gunn Special. Bob later gave up share broking to become a full time investor and professional director of a number of major NZ companies. RIP Bob Gunn and thank you.
Bob was not without a sense of humour. The last time I saw him in 1970 I was heading up to the Eastern Highlands of PNG on a 2 year contract. His last piece of advice to me was to have my shoulders measured for a new head which he thought was very funny 😨

[denpal]

58. Been investing in shares for ten years or so, all on the ASX (and one or two on the TSX) in the mining sector. As you may imagine there have been some tremendous ups and downs over that time. I've tried to get in fairly early on trendy sectors, and these have included rare earths, uranium, iron ore, manganese, potash, silver and gold, at various times. I like the excitement of the chase (by that I mean hunting down new companies with great management and great prospects, timing an entry/exit and trying not to faint when there is some wild price action), and haven't been able to generate any enthusiasm for getting invested in mainstream stocks. Currently the gold miners are "reverting to mean" after a long bear market and huge oversoldness, so there have been some stunning gains this year which is nice after the rather tiring bear market. Many have doubled, tripled, or better already and these are mid-caps not juniors.

Like many of the others most of my really substantial gains have been in property, due to the ease of huge leverage , low risk and the phenomenal capital growth over time. Even a good quality spec share would need to perform well over a few years to beat that, given "safe" leverage is not really easy to achieve with shares. My property is all residential, I go for high yield in solid working class areas close to town and in high demand for rentals.

[golden city]

35.., i first interested in share., when i was about 13..., self learned start investing when i was about 17 years old., after playing for around 10 years before investing fulltime..enjoy investing very much.., had some up and downs.., at present doing great..enjoying my first million dollar profit from THL..beside that i am also an property investor for long.., normally making profit from stocks to leverage on properties.., very much matched and fited business and lifestyle for me first a few years always a struggle for me.., because lauguage barrier .., slowly keep learning english and investing too., starting from nothing.., i am glad what i have acheived to date

[shasta]

Interesting thread and seems the average age has lowered over the last 10 years or so.

I'm 39 and started off my initial interest in the sharemarket in the 6th form, when entering the Youth Enterprise Scheme run by Hugh Fletcher at the time, our wee group came up with around a 300 percent return on some local marketing stickers for Hawkes Bay.

Started working at Coopers and Lybrand back in the day....

[Speculator]

I'm 18, recently bought a small number of shares in AIR a few months back.
Always had an interest in stocks and companies and thought i'd dip my toes in when I got to university this year.
The main reason young people do not get into the stock market is lack of money and the daunting initial learning curve.
I really appreciate the easy to follow analysis that you veterans provide on ST, and the odd bit of banter.
-Spec

[Grunter]

I'm 29, got interested in investing when I was 24, decided I wanted to make a career of it so did a BCom in Economics and Finance, graduated last year with an Honours in Finance and passed CFA Level 1 last year.

Originally became interested in buying good companies, however through the course of my studies became more interested in quant finance. Unfortunately that appetite is not really in the market here, most fund managers, financial advisors and investors are still very much "bottom up" stock pickers

[digger]

I never bothered much with the market when I was younger. I had a an insurance policy with CML the insurance company, then they de-mutualised and I was given shares worth around $2.00 from memory. I sold them for $6.00 and that piqued my interest. Later I was working for Ports of Auckland when it was the Auckland Harbour Board. The port was floated {so to speak} and listed on the NZX. I got shares at $1.60 and the shares eventually went to about $8.00 before it was de-listed. I began to see the possibilities. I almost forgot to mention my shares in the Waitemata Electric Power Board. They were a gift which trebled in size.
A pattern emerges: if an institution is being privatised or sold for idealogical reasons like Rogernomics then take advantage of it {whatever your politics or personal feelings}. The current crop of power companies are a good example. There was also Telecom and Telstra, both floated around $2.00 before going much higher.
I have started to digress, but that is part of my story over the last 25 +years. Current age 75 and my family still call me sprightly most days:).

Ok airedale looks like you are the old fellow. Thought it was me.Will be 75 in Sept. Been in market since 1984 and still know next to nothing. Last 5 years been he worst. Just no good at second guessing the unknown unknowns

[Maybehobbi]

Hello, I am 44( female) and a total newbie. Almost a year ago I stumbled across this forum by accident. After reading the posts I became very interested in share trading and ordered and read recommended books, registered with ANZ Securities, etc. Finally purchased my first 2 lots of shares - NTL( NZX) and ALK( ASX). Totally against everything I've read, but wanted my first purchase on each stock exchange to be a memorable one( probably for all the wrong reasons :-) )
My great appreciation to all contributors to the forum, love reading the posts.

[Silver Spider]

I am 36, and had an account with JB Were set up when I was in my late teens. Back then I had no real interest and they were passive investments in every sense of the word. Then about a couple of years ago due to colleagues at my previous workplace who were into the stock market I've decide to take another look. I am still getting my feet wet and there's plenty to lean ...

[kelfy]

36 here. I am a good money saver and hard worker. I save most of my money from part time job since age 16. I was forced by my parent to purchase my first crappy tiny brick unit right after I graduated from Uni which is about 22. I was so upset and I don't understand why need to be so hurry to get a property. Then I realise the sweet about 6 years later. It earns way more then I work. Since then I start interested on any kind of investments and financial skills. Now I have NZ Share, AU Share, HK Share, US Share, little bit of foreign currency and my lovely properties.

[Sgt Pepper]

I am 58. My parents were hard working and financially savvy. My father did not invest in shares, instead bought a large property in Dunedin and converted into 5 flats. As for me my first shares I bought were for a fitch fur farm in Dunedin in the 1970s. It went bust. I have always been interested in shares. My best mate was and is a successful and savvy investor. I was mightily impressed when he bought a nice car when he sold off his Fletcher Buliding Shares. I wish I had more free money to invest but being basically a conservative careful person who still has mortgage commitments I have to be careful.

[silu]

43 and started investing in my mid twenties after immigrating to NZ. First purchases were Cultus Petroleum and Fletcher Paper. Thought for a while I could smell a takeover from a mile out just to lose almost all of it on stocks like Newcall, IT Capital, Advantage, Spectrum Resources. Then slowly built up portfolio again until I sold it all to buy an unfortunately unsuccessful business (already closed). Started with 5k again in 2012 and am up to about 70k now. My philosphy has changed a lot over the years and am grateful that I (hopefully) have learned from all my mistakes over the last couple of decades.

[Sgt Pepper]

43 and started investing in my mid twenties after immigrating to NZ. First purchases were Cultus Petroleum and Fletcher Paper. Thought for a while I could smell a takeover from a mile out just to lose almost all of it on stocks like Newcall, IT Capital, Advantage, Spectrum Resources. Then slowly built up portfolio again until I sold it all to buy an unfortunately unsuccessful business (already closed). Started with 5k again in 2012 and am up to about 70k now. My philosphy has changed a lot over the years and am grateful that I (hopefully) have learned from all my mistakes over the last couple of decades.

well done Silu. Commendable and inspiring

[suse]

Early 50s. Have had the odd couple of shares over the years (speculation only) when I could do it through First Capital I think via internet banking with ANZ. I bought some shares in an Aussie gold/diamond mining co, and because I kind of lost interest or dare I say forgot and the sharetrading platform wasn't available so easily, they are now worth about $2 in total :) Now I like to pay good attention, but I am in for dividends for the most part so recognise that there are ups and downs to be had. Have invested a smallish inheritance, with bulk of shares in HBL off advice from a very savvy investor friend. Learning a lot here, but really I know absolutely nothing so need to do a course or something. Dividends are designed to keep me in luxury hotels when I travel. :)

[Hoop]

65 years Old...Started Share investing when I was 21.. At that time I had some money looking for a home with potential for capital gain.. I had saved up from blood sweat,and tears and forgoing the usual young adolescent social spend ups. I went to a stock market night course held over 10 weeks.The experienced investor/tutor/stockbroker chap running the course advised us to start with big "safe" blue chip stocks until we gained enough skills...so I took advice and invested all my money with JBL..a couple of months later I had lost the lot..:(.

Had a lot of ups and downs since then..but I gained most from the various property market booms....as you can imagine I am not a great fan of Financial Advisors or Stockbrokers..It's been DYOR all the way

[kelfy]

Would love to hear more about your stock investing stories. Well done

[kelfy]

43 and started investing in my mid twenties after immigrating to NZ. First purchases were Cultus Petroleum and Fletcher Paper. Thought for a while I could smell a takeover from a mile out just to lose almost all of it on stocks like Newcall, IT Capital, Advantage, Spectrum Resources. Then slowly built up portfolio again until I sold it all to buy an unfortunately unsuccessful business (already closed). Started with 5k again in 2012 and am up to about 70k now. My philosphy has changed a lot over the years and am grateful that I (hopefully) have learned from all my mistakes over the last couple of decades.

Would love to hear more about your stock investing stories. Well done

[mp52]

45 and have been actively investing for about three years now. Dad tried to teach me the ropes back in the 80s and got me started with a small holding of Equiticorp shares and we all know how that ended! That clanger, and a general disinterest in finance at the time, kept me away for a few years. Then in the 90s I had a windfall with some demutualised insurance co shares which I should have sold but (thinking I was prudent) rode to the bottom - nevertheless I pricked my ears up. Fast-forward a few years after I'd worked as an independent contractor through a company working overseas and then run a small consulting business here for around 10 years and consequently gained more financial literacy and (more importantly) was motivated to continue gaining more. Closed the business down a couple of years ago and had some cash from that which I was looking to make work harder for me and that coincided with the floats on the power companies which largely got me into actively learning and investing in the share market and other instruments. Apart from my own home I missed the ride up with property. When the "property school" franchises are liquidated and the neon-liveried Holden HSVs urging a call to an 0800 number for a life of eternal riches are re-possessed I'll take another look.

My radar for hucksters and BS merchants is wired sensitively so I prefer to educate myself and take my own risks rather than use financial advisors. The last one I approached (a husband and wife team) managed to divert me into the insurance-broking side of their business and to flip my policies but provided zero advice on how to actually put money into my pocket. Couple that with the underwhelming, over-hyped and over-priced business-related services I've encountered over the years and I'm now a big believer in self-education. Hard part is finding the time currently but the opportunity/cost of inaction from lack of available data versus handing-off financial stewardship to a salesman is one I'm prepared to accept.

[levin123]

26 here. Have had a topsy turvy investment/trading journey, beginning with a substantial loss in ASX:NUF in 2010, which wiped most of my capital and motivation. Learnt a lot from that episode, particularly to always do your own DD.

Fast forward a few years and am doing much better, sitting on around 14% ROI p/a over the past 2 years.

Others have touched on these points but it amazes me how little interest there is in the markets among people I know that are around my age. Bar several exceptions, (mostly through my work) flatmates and friends that I have gotten know, have very little interest and prefer to live week to week. Always making sure they spend slightly more than they earn each week, because you only live once right?

Everyone is absolutely obsessed with buying a house, the kiwi dream. You have some cash lying around, buy a house they scream at me. Equity markets are just not on the radar. So much so that my most recent girlfriend absolutely could not understand why I didn't want to buy a house with her. I was offered an ultimatum, so said goodbye lol.

[Deej5]

Good on ya Levin. Best to invest in shares than girlfriends eh? Much better dividends.

[kiora]

26 here. Have had a topsy turvy investment/trading journey, beginning with a substantial loss in ASX:NUF in 2010, which wiped most of my capital and motivation. Learnt a lot from that episode, particularly to always do your own DD.

Fast forward a few years and am doing much better, sitting on around 14% ROI p/a over the past 2 years.

Others have touched on these points but it amazes me how little interest there is in the markets among people I know that are around my age. Bar several exceptions, (mostly through my work) flatmates and friends that I have gotten know, have very little interest and prefer to live week to week. Always making sure they spend slightly more than they earn each week, because you only live once right?

Everyone is absolutely obsessed with buying a house, the kiwi dream. You have some cash lying around, buy a house they scream at me. Equity markets are just not on the radar. So much so that my most recent girlfriend absolutely could not understand why I didn't want to buy a house with her. I was offered an ultimatum, so said goodbye lol.

I agree so few kiwis are interested in share investing,even kiwisaver. It is some concern when a lot of people I talk to,if they are putting money in to kiwisaver at all, are only signed up to the default conservative funds daghh!

[klid]

30, started at 25. Being able to trade shares is the best thing ever.
There's a startling amount of the population that don't even know the concept.

[Stranger_Danger]

Everyone is absolutely obsessed with buying a house, the kiwi dream. You have some cash lying around, buy a house they scream at me. Equity markets are just not on the radar. So much so that my most recent girlfriend absolutely could not understand why I didn't want to buy a house with her. I was offered an ultimatum, so said goodbye lol.

Made the right call there. If only you could have shorted her, too.

[Jadedagain]

Bit of a lurker here to use a term from www.imgur.com (http://www.imgur.com)

Currently 31, started with the Port of Tauranga float when i was ... young. Have been in and out over the years but on the whole only positive so far.

Holding various direct investments as well as ASX listed indices.