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fungus pudding
10-04-2016, 04:01 PM
it seems ridiculous to carry on with the thread 'If National wins' It's been running for years when we've all known there hasn't been any alternative, and that will continue for the foreseeable future. So I'm creating this new thread where the malcontents can fire all the shots they want at the govt. I won't name them - they'll be queuing up soon to post their gloomy predictions, but for those of us in real world we don't have to stare at that ridiculous 'if' in the heading. We just accept that it's a foregone conclusion.

elZorro
10-04-2016, 04:49 PM
it seems ridiculous to carry on with the thread 'If National wins' It's been running for years when we've all known there hasn't been any alternative, and that will continue for the foreseeable future. So I'm creating this new thread where the malcontents can fire all the shots they want at the govt. I won't name them - they'll be queuing up soon to post there gloomy predictions, but for those of us in real world we don't have to stare at that ridiculous 'if' in the heading. We just accept that it's a foregone conclusion.

What's wrong, FP, too many pointed questions, facts and destructions of your arguments in the other thread? You can't dilute the other thread by starting another one that no-one will notice. Anyway, there's a typo back there in post #1, not a good start. Maybe we should ask Vince, the anonymous Angry Admin Guy, to relabel the real thread to 2017. There's too much good info there to blow it away, a lot of time spent. It also has a very high view count, one of the more popular threads on ST.

fungus pudding
10-04-2016, 05:24 PM
What's wrong, FP, too many pointed questions, facts and destructions of your arguments in the other thread? You can't dilute the other thread by starting another one that no-one will notice. Anyway, there's a typo back there in post #1, not a good start. Maybe we should ask Vince, the anonymous Angry Admin Guy, to relabel the real thread to 2017. There's too much good info there to blow it away, a lot of time spent. It also has a very high view count, one of the more popular threads on ST.

Thank-you indeed for pointing out my misspelling.
There is no destruction of anything I have posted. Certainly a few arguing the point to no avail. Always the same names -those with a humourless and negative outlook on life.
Anyway enough of that I'll leave you to digest the latest TV1 polls showing National back up to govern alone figures. Labour down of course. Poor old Andrew at 7% in preferred leader poll while Winston is at 10%. Time for Andrew to go I'd say, but I really don't mind if he stays.

fungus pudding
10-04-2016, 06:33 PM
Tell us eZ - what's got up Clayton's nose?

Major von Tempsky
10-04-2016, 07:20 PM
Great idea FP, I'm right behind you.

I hope you noticed Jacinda Ardern, the face of the future, the face that launched a thousand paddle bikes, steaming up there at 2%.

I think the voters liked the exercise in democracy by John Key and National. He had an idea, he launched it, he advocated it, he put it to the ultimate test - judgment by the voters and when that judgment came he accepted defeat GRACIOUSLY. Tell me, search the deepest recesses of your memory, can anyone ever remember Labour accepting defeat graciously?

Major von Tempsky
10-04-2016, 07:28 PM
So, going by EZ's discussion on the OLD thread re the latest poll, then in the worst case for National it would govern with the support of NZ First heh heh heh.

I loved the way Winston publicly on TV directly shot down Andrew Little's claim to be leading policy discussions with the Greens and NZ First for a combined effort in the next election.

It made Andrew look, well, Little....

fungus pudding
11-04-2016, 07:28 AM
So, going by EZ's discussion on the OLD thread re the latest poll, then in the worst case for National it would govern with the support of NZ First heh heh heh.

I loved the way Winston publicly on TV directly shot down Andrew Little's claim to be leading policy discussions with the Greens and NZ First for a combined effort in the next election.

It made Andrew look, well, Little....

I heard Andrew Little being interviewed on radio this morning. He stated they would have to be polling in the mid 30's next year to be competitive in the election. We all know that won't happen, so that's very close to a concession.

fungus pudding
11-04-2016, 04:02 PM
Still waiting for you eZ to tell us why Cosgrove is going? He's actually one of their better MPs, that they can barely afford to lose. Rumour has it that he couldn't abide the hypocrisy of Labour's stand against the flag and the TPP; the policies they had promoted.
Or are there other reasons as well?

artemis
11-04-2016, 05:01 PM
Mr Cosgtove said he may go early if the right opportunity comes up. I doubt he would have said that if there was not an offer in the wings, as he will look very lame duck if he hangs on, and on, and on. So that will be a chance for Mr Little to start the rejuvenation. Ms Street, next on the List, is not going to cut it.

fungus pudding
11-04-2016, 06:56 PM
Mr Cosgtove said he may go early if the right opportunity comes up. I doubt he would have said that if there was not an offer in the wings, as he will look very lame duck if he hangs on, and on, and on. So that will be a chance for Mr Little to start the rejuvenation. Ms Street, next on the List, is not going to cut it.

No she isn't. I was hoping for an insider's view of Cosgrove's departure but they've all gone quiet. I think Cosgrove's flying the flag and hoping offers come in - which they will. He's not setting a departure date - yet. Labour is going to be interesting to watch. They know Little won't win, but they also know they'll get laughed at when they drop him. Nevertheless I think Stuart Nash must have his eyes on the top job and if he plays his cards right he'll be in the hot seat come the election.

craic
12-04-2016, 07:20 AM
No she isn't. I was hoping for an insider's view of Cosgrove's departure but they've all gone quiet. I think Cosgrove's flying the flag and hoping offers come in - which they will. He's not setting a departure date - yet. Labour is going to be interesting to watch. They know Little won't win, but they also know they'll get laughed at when they drop him. Nevertheless I think Stuart Nash must have his eyes on the top job and if he plays his cards right he'll be in the hot seat come the election.

Nash was always on the cards as a Labour leader but they ignored him and gave the impression that he was something of an upstart. For his part in Napier, he has been upfront and obvious on a number of local issues, amalgamation with Hastings, police numbers, etc. This electorate is fairly evenly balanced and Nash was helped greatly in the last election by a split between National voters and the conservative candidate Garth Mc Vicar Who had a lot of local support.

fungus pudding
12-04-2016, 04:12 PM
Nash was always on the cards as a Labour leader but they ignored him and gave the impression that he was something of an upstart. For his part in Napier, he has been upfront and obvious on a number of local issues, amalgamation with Hastings, police numbers, etc. This electorate is fairly evenly balanced and Nash was helped greatly in the last election by a split between National voters and the conservative candidate Garth Mc Vicar Who had a lot of local support.

Just looking through their MPs, there is no-one else

http://www.labour.org.nz/team

I don't think they'd risk Grant Roberson.

BlackPeter
12-04-2016, 04:39 PM
actually - I do have some respect for Kelvin Davis .... but might be still too early for him.

and obviously they still have Shearer, in my view their only recent leader who could have won an election. Open, honest, reasonable. Certainly the only one of the bunch who in my view would be better than Key (and this is not setting the bar too high).

Stuart Nash? Maybe, but even less experienced than Kelvin Davis, i.e. maybe next time or the time after?

But agree - in practical terms they have no alternative they didn't already burn out. Maybe that's a Leftie problem - they play too much with fire, next to not listening?

fungus pudding
12-04-2016, 04:49 PM
actually - I do have some respect for Kelvin Davis .... but might be still too early for him.

and obviously they still have Shearer, in my view their only recent leader who could have won an election. Open, honest, reasonable. Certainly the only one of the bunch who in my view would be better than Key (and this is not setting the bar too high).

Stuart Nash? Maybe, but even less experienced than Kelvin Davis, i.e. maybe next time or the time after?

But agree - in practical terms they have no alternative they didn't already burn out. Maybe that's a Leftie problem - they play too much with fire, next to not listening?

This is Nash's second term served 2008 to 2011 then local body for a term and back in parliament for his second term so he's reasonably experienced. Family name might help him although Nash was not highly regarded as P.M. I agree with you about Shearer. He didn't come across well as leader but has improved out of sight since. Dropped too soon I reckon. He's likeable which is rare among their last few leaders.

Major von Tempsky
12-04-2016, 05:10 PM
Although Shearer seems reasonable and middle of the road (a real ask of Labour who sometimes try to represent themselves as "centrist" apparently he had massive organizational and scheduling problems in his office and the PLP which is why he was dropped.

Major von Tempsky
13-04-2016, 05:16 AM
Where EZ is calling John Key a "liar" on the redundant thread (without any substantive evidence but just trying to bad-mouth someone whose success he is jealous of) immediately brings to mind Donald Trump's clumsy attempts to smear Ted Cruz by always referring to him as "Lyin' Ted Cruz". Observe the company you are keeping EZ!

fungus pudding
13-04-2016, 08:10 AM
Where EZ is calling John Key a "liar" on the redundant thread (without any substantive evidence but just trying to bad-mouth someone whose success he is jealous of) immediately brings to mind Donald Trump's clumsy attempts to smear Ted Cruz by always referring to him as "Lyin' Ted Cruz". Observe the company you are keeping EZ!

It's not entirely redundant. It's an ideal outlet for eZ's venom :cursing: go and have a look at his latest offerings.

Major von Tempsky
13-04-2016, 05:03 PM
Any thread with 2014 is increasingly ancient history. So, will EZ still be venting his spleen in November 2017 under the title If National Wins in 2014 while the opinion polls show National at 50% ?

Laughter.

He who doesn't learn from History, EZ, is doomed to repeat it!

fungus pudding
14-04-2016, 08:24 AM
Any thread with 2014 is increasingly ancient history. So, will EZ still be venting his spleen in November 2017 under the title If National Wins in 2014 while the opinion polls show National at 50% ?

Laughter.

He who doesn't learn from History, EZ, is doomed to repeat it!

I'm still waiting for eZ to tell us why Clayton Cosgrove is throwing in the towel.

craic
14-04-2016, 09:17 AM
I'm still waiting for Little to stand up in the house and deliver a complete sentence without having to read it from a large sheet of paper he holds directly in front of him. Maybe he hasn't heard of looking the opposition in the eye? Maybe it was delivered to him and he didn't have time to read it before he stood up? Maybe it's just that he is not fast-witted enough for the forum. If that's the case then he will be eaten alive by the cannibals in his own party, before long.

Major von Tempsky
14-04-2016, 05:13 PM
I'd say he is just not fast witted enough!

Still he is, comparatively speaking, bright enough to realize that the policy promises by Labour in the last election were a disaster, and the cure is not what Cunliffe thought and Corbyn thinks, to stake out ever further left wing positions but it is to feel out where the middle ground, the centre is. But he has all the personality of a wooden lamp post which doesn't help. But he has a back stop that realistically there are absolutely no Labour challengers in sight for Leader!

Daytr
14-04-2016, 07:49 PM
Key has been caught out lying on many occasion. He lied about the GCSB spying on NZers and also the role of our troops in conflict. Just two instances that come to mind, but there have been others.

For a thread about National, you sure like talking about Labour a lot.

fungus pudding
14-04-2016, 07:58 PM
Key has been caught out lying on many occasion. He lied about the GCSB spying on NZers and also the role of our troops in conflict. Just two instances that come to mind, but there have been others.

For a thread about National, you sure like talking about Labour a lot.

National's ongoing success is partly due to Labour's disarray. Hence they are part of the 'win again' theme of the thread.

Daytr
14-04-2016, 08:34 PM
No argument from me re the first part.
However the thread title is a little sad.
Perhaps National party glee club would be more appropriate .


National's ongoing success is partly due to Labour's disarray. Hence they are part of the 'win again' theme of the thread.

Major von Tempsky
15-04-2016, 04:27 PM
Frankly I'm very pleased to have GCSB spying on me and all NZers in the process of catching Moslem extremists and other nutters who are planning terrorist massacres and I guarantee a majority of NZ voters are too! Lying about it? I'm actively in favour of it and I hope they do. I can just imagine their supercomputer searching for bomb, ISIS, the caliphate, Al Qaeda etc etc. The only people who should fear it are those with something to fear which doesn't include me and most voters.
Lying about what NZ troops are doing in Iraq or Afghanistan? As far as I'm concerned they are there to defend us against ISIS and other Moslem terrorist outrages and I don't care whether they do it directly or by training Afghanis and Iraqis to do it. Naturally I expect them to be able to defend themselves when the towelheads come climbing over the parapets and I expect them to capture and/or kill said towelheads.

This means that occasionally they incur casualties themselves but this doesn't mean that (a) they are wrong and/or (b) they should pusillanimously give up!

westerly
15-04-2016, 05:16 PM
Seems to be a thread for extremists, I hope the GCSB is watching. :)

westerly

fungus pudding
15-04-2016, 06:07 PM
I'm still waiting for Little to stand up in the house and deliver a complete sentence without having to read it from a large sheet of paper he holds directly in front of him. Maybe he hasn't heard of looking the opposition in the eye? Maybe it was delivered to him and he didn't have time to read it before he stood up? Maybe it's just that he is not fast-witted enough for the forum. If that's the case then he will be eaten alive by the cannibals in his own party, before long.

That's why I doubt they'll leave him there until the election. It's a sad truth that politicians these days are judged by their on camera performance. Little will be demolished, eaten alive, in a televised debate.

Daytr
16-04-2016, 07:39 AM
Well as said on many occasion, unless they change leader which you are all underlining for them over & over.
If I was Labour or NZ First I would be going after National's strong hold in the regions, which National has typically neglected and obviously dairy is in disarray. Soft targets if they made the right approach.

fungus pudding
16-04-2016, 07:46 AM
Well as said on many occasion, unless they change leader which you are all underlining for them over & over.
If I was Labour or NZ First I would be going after National's strong hold in the regions, which National has typically neglected and obviously dairy is in disarray. Soft targets if they made the right approach.

Labour are not going anywhere until they change the leader.
NZ First are not going anywhere until they change the rest of the party.

Daytr
16-04-2016, 09:17 AM
NZF will have gained confidence after dispatching a hiding to National in the Northland bi-election win.
They could put a good dent in National's hold over the regions if they play it right.



Labour are not going anywhere until they change the leader.
NZ First are not going anywhere until they change the rest of the party.

iceman
16-04-2016, 09:21 AM
Audrey Young says Little is not going before the election. Interesting and informative summary from her. EZ should take note of the comment from Guy Williams :p
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11623355

Major von Tempsky
17-04-2016, 03:48 PM
The only reason Little is not going before the election is that Labour can't find anyone less mediocre than Little to take his place.

If you are a Labour wannabe leader why not let Little take the rap for failing again next election and then knife him after the election?

artemis
18-04-2016, 07:26 AM
Well, I think Labour will be pushing it uphill for a win in 2017. But National and friends should not expect to cruise to victory. One word, Northland.

Mr Little lacks charisma to be sure, and has made some serious missteps. But Labour is not dead, still has a lot of experience in its ranks, and we can be sure there is extensive lobbying and deal making behind closed doors.

craic
18-04-2016, 08:17 AM
[QUOTE=artemis;616477]Well, I think Labour will be pushing it uphill for a win in 2017. But National and friends should not expect to cruise to victory. One word, Northland.

No. It's two words, Tauranga and Northland. Winnie is the human equivalent of the "flash-in-the-pan." He could get more sympathy in the north than he did in Tauranga but voters quickly realise that the party in power is more important than a member who is not in a position to influence either major party.

Major von Tempsky
19-04-2016, 08:47 AM
And on the obsolete thread, exporting bottled water, according to Daytr, is the issue that is going to put National out next election!

Har! Har! Har!

While EZ is rabbitting on about trusts, another proven election non-winner.

fungus pudding
19-04-2016, 08:53 AM
And on the obsolete thread, exporting bottled water, according to Daytr, is the issue that is going to put National out next election!

Har! Har! Har!

While EZ is rabbitting on about trusts, another proven election non-winner.

I've just had a read through the other thread although I intended to avoid that. It's become just an outlet for eZs venom and so best ignored. However the last few posts are worth a read. eZ is having a total melt-down. :scared:

Sgt Pepper
19-04-2016, 09:07 AM
And on the obsolete thread, exporting bottled water, according to Daytr, is the issue that is going to put National out next election!

Har! Har! Har!

While EZ is rabbitting on about trusts, another proven election non-winner.

Water may well become very relevant. I note in the Sunday Star Times a new lobby group is seeking support. They are alarmed about the highly sensitive " negotiations" regarding ownership of water Bill English is engaged in (in secret) No doubt Crosby Textor will be asked for strategy advice on this upcomimg nightmare for National.

ps I thought I should contribute to this thread, It must be getting rather lonely for the Major and Fungus

Major von Tempsky
19-04-2016, 03:51 PM
Well let's see where exporting bottled water comes in the next poll of issues NZers are most concerned about. Would'nt be surprised if it didn't rate a mention!

In the meantime "The Labour opposition have made a huge song and dance over the Panama Papers. Trevor Mallard accused the Prime Minister of involvement in tax evasion and smearing endlessly has occurred in the media and in the parliament.

But how many people from New Zealand are named in the Panama Papers?

So how many?

You’d think it was a massive number from the out-pouring of rage from the left and the
Labour party as they tried to smear John Key.

Well it turns out none…no one, nothing, zilch, nada…zip.

Anonymous has released the complete list of people named in the Panama Papers and not a single Kiwi is named".

Sgt Pepper
19-04-2016, 04:24 PM
Well let's see where exporting bottled water comes in the next poll of issues NZers are most concerned about. Would'nt be surprised if it didn't rate a mention!

In the meantime "The Labour opposition have made a huge song and dance over the Panama Papers. Trevor Mallard accused the Prime Minister of involvement in tax evasion and smearing endlessly has occurred in the media and in the parliament.

But how many people from New Zealand are named in the Panama Papers?

So how many?

You’d think it was a massive number from the out-pouring of rage from the left and the
Labour party as they tried to smear John Key.

Well it turns out none…no one, nothing, zilch, nada…zip.

Anonymous has released the complete list of people named in the Panama Papers and not a single Kiwi is named".


as usual completely ignore anything that is a problem for National.

craic
19-04-2016, 05:00 PM
Today a man walked into the Clock Shop in Napier and announced that Mr Little had handed over his papers to Mr Shearer who is about to become the next Labour Leader. The man in the shop remarked "He's OK he's a local" so it wasn't any part of any conspiracy.

jonu
19-04-2016, 06:15 PM
The issue of water is a curly one for whoever wishes to take it on, not least because of the Treaty ramifications. Iwi groups have been returned the bed of various lakes and rivers (under both Nats & Labour), very carefully dodging the issue of who owns (or doesn't own) the water in them.

Ground water accumulates from all over the place and the whole h20 cycle makes it something of a liquid asset (so to speak). A bit tricky to pin down legally as the slippery little sucker moves on you.

tim23
19-04-2016, 06:59 PM
Right on Sgt Pepper - they do because their leader keeps getting away with whatever he likes; flippant responses, indifference, flip flops, I can't recall etc, but the tide will turn - just ask Helen Clark... etc
as usual completely ignore anything that is a problem for National.

fungus pudding
24-04-2016, 10:38 AM
Right on Sgt Pepper - they do because their leader keeps getting away with whatever he likes; flippant responses, indifference, flip flops, I can't recall etc, but the tide will turn - just ask Helen Clark... etc


The tide has got no show of turning as long as Little keeps picking on the wrong things to stir about.
If Labour ever want to be taken seriously again they should start a positive campaign. The negative response to every single thing killed off Goff and Cunliffe. Little will be next.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11627663

Major von Tempsky
24-04-2016, 11:57 AM
Beautiful cartoon (The Press and the Dom Post too I guess) of Little blowing holes in his feet over the Niue Hotel non issue. On the facing page a big article by Tracy Watkins pointing out in detail just where Little has gone wrong in major ways on this subject. Made my day :-)

fungus pudding
24-04-2016, 12:29 PM
Beautiful cartoon (The Press and the Dom Post too I guess) of Little blowing holes in his feet over the Niue Hotel non issue. On the facing page a big article by Tracy Watkins pointing out in detail just where Little has gone wrong in major ways on this subject. Made my day :-)

This is the article but unfortunately can't find the cartoon.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/79241831/political-week-smoke-and-fire-or-smoke-and-mirrors

Daytr
24-04-2016, 01:04 PM
Flash in the pan! Another ridiculous post by Craic.
Craic by name...
Peters I believe is the longest serving MP in NZs history. LOL.



[QUOTE=artemis;616477]Well, I think Labour will be pushing it uphill for a win in 2017. But National and friends should not expect to cruise to victory. One word, Northland.

No. It's two words, Tauranga and Northland. Winnie is the human equivalent of the "flash-in-the-pan." He could get more sympathy in the north than he did in Tauranga but voters quickly realise that the party in power is more important than a member who is not in a position to influence either major party.

tim23
24-04-2016, 01:10 PM
A flash in the pan doesn't survive like Peters so you are well of the mark using that term - maybe Mark Brumsky or Peter McCardle but not Peters.
[QUOTE=artemis;616477]Well, I think Labour will be pushing it uphill for a win in 2017. But National and friends should not expect to cruise to victory. One word, Northland.

No. It's two words, Tauranga and Northland. Winnie is the human equivalent of the "flash-in-the-pan." He could get more sympathy in the north than he did in Tauranga but voters quickly realise that the party in power is more important than a member who is not in a position to influence either major party.

macduffy
24-04-2016, 02:14 PM
This is the article but unfortunately can't find the cartoon.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/79241831/political-week-smoke-and-fire-or-smoke-and-mirrors

Thanks, fungus.

Tracy Watkin's article carries a lot more weight for me than Rodney Hide's!

;)

Daytr
24-04-2016, 04:06 PM
I never said anything of the sort.
Stop making things up.


And on the obsolete thread, exporting bottled water, according to Daytr, is the issue that is going to put National out next election!

Har! Har! Har!

While EZ is rabbitting on about trusts, another proven election non-winner.

fungus pudding
02-05-2016, 06:56 AM
Thanks, fungus.

Tracy Watkin's article carries a lot more weight for me than Rodney Hide's!

;)

Meanwhile on the thread 'if National wins' eZ is having a meltdown because he can't get a look at other people's tax returns.

fungus pudding
08-05-2016, 07:25 AM
Here is a good article that all MPs should read every day before breakfast. The message is get that company tax way down.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11635342

777
08-05-2016, 09:09 AM
Meanwhile on the thread 'if National wins' eZ is having a meltdown because he can't get a look at other people's tax returns.

Yeah nothing new comes up on that thread. Just the same old dribble and I see they are concerned that no one is reading it now.You can only listen to the same record so many times.

fungus pudding
08-05-2016, 11:29 AM
Labour still looking for something to give them traction. The Panama papers won't do it. No matter how much they claim otherwise the whole thing is without any wrong doing, and simply not a problem.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/79724458/political-week-labour-looking-for-a-game-changer

Daytr
08-05-2016, 07:36 PM
How can you know that when very little detail on from the Panama Papers has been released yet?
Obviously you can't.
I wonder by naming Key if they know there will be more to come in the coming weeks releases.


Labour still looking for something to give them traction. The Panama papers won't do it. No matter how much they claim otherwise the whole thing is without any wrong doing, and simply not a problem.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/79724458/political-week-labour-looking-for-a-game-changer

Daytr
08-05-2016, 07:39 PM
Even many of Hyde's followers think he is completely off the mark.
At a time when other countries are clamping down on company tax dodging you think NZ should do the opposite!
Completely out of touch.


Here is a good article that all MPs should read every day before breakfast. The message is get that company tax way down.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11635342

fungus pudding
09-05-2016, 08:05 AM
Even many of Hyde's followers think he is completely off the mark.
At a time when other countries are clamping down on company tax dodging you think NZ should do the opposite!
Completely out of touch.

No government yet has managed to find a way around transfer pricing. And they have to be careful they don't drive away employers, not that there's much point in taxing companies anyway.
Tomorrow will be interesting - we will hear what is supposedly wrong with our tax or trust laws. So far we're still in the dark although that hasn't stopped Andrew Little claiming he'd shut down offshore trusts operating in NZ. Perhaps his silliest suggestion to date. That's another nail in his coffin.

RGR367
09-05-2016, 01:24 PM
I guess we just have to leave Panama Papers with you Guys who are more politically inclined. Please share what you find that is good or bad for the NZ voting public. We'll welcome your spin into it but just don't make it so obvious that expose your hidden agenda :cool:

Daytr
10-05-2016, 06:10 AM
Well if you think foreign trusts are set up just for transfer pricing then you are seriously naïve.
But how would we know? Because NZs level of scrutiny isn't up to scratch or as strong as our peers as John Key claims.
There is no transparency at all.
We wouldn't have a clue if there is terrorism, drug money being funneled through NZ.
Key was pressured to review these trusts, in 2010, in 2012 & 2013 both by opposition parties and by the IRD.
This is an article from 2012 where NZ is being mentioned alongside Russia!
Little has said he would shut the trusts down if after a review they showed to be causing more damage than benefit or no real benefit.
So not what you said.
However in this case I would think most people are supporting Little's stance & like Hyde, Key is out of step with the mood of the country on this one.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/business/6939212/NZ-blacklisted-by-EU



No government yet has managed to find a way around transfer pricing. And they have to be careful they don't drive away employers, not that there's much point in taxing companies anyway.
Tomorrow will be interesting - we will hear what is supposedly wrong with our tax or trust laws. So far we're still in the dark although that hasn't stopped Andrew Little claiming he'd shut down offshore trusts operating in NZ. Perhaps his silliest suggestion to date. That's another nail in his coffin.

fungus pudding
10-05-2016, 08:14 AM
Well if you think foreign trusts are set up just for transfer pricing then you are seriously naïve.


I do not think that and did not claim that. You have a comprehension problem, which explains a lot.

Daytr
10-05-2016, 07:40 PM
Ha ha nice cheap shot. I should expect nothing less I suppose.

blackcap
10-05-2016, 08:01 PM
Didn't Mojo Mathers make an absolute twit of herself in parliament today. So she admitted not owning a trust but being a beneficiary in a UK family Trust. But not a foreign trust. Mind boggles.

iceman
10-05-2016, 09:15 PM
Didn't Mojo Mathers make an absolute twit of herself in parliament today. So she admitted not owning a trust but being a beneficiary in a UK family Trust. But not a foreign trust. Mind boggles.

A bit like Mr Hager saying the need for trasperency outweighs the need for privacy, except of course for his family trust where he keeps all his assets. The mind boggles alright.

Here is a good article that sums this non issue up nicely and shows that once again Labour is flogging a dead horse. Anyone remember Kim Dotflop, Ponytailgate, and now Trustgate, what next ? Yawn.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/panama-papers-dont-reveal-what-opposition-claimed-least-so-far-jw

Daytr
11-05-2016, 06:09 AM
Iceman, none of the things you mentioned are non issues, unless you judge an issue by opinion poll. All it suggests to me is that a lot of NZers don't care and are just concerned about having their wallets lined by an out of control property market fueled by a ridiculously high level of immigration.
Since returning to NZ after being away the best part of twenty years I have been generally shocked by the level of callousness by NZers generally. In a lot of ways its become very much a 'me' first, second and third society . Don't get me wrong, there are lots of good people out there and I don't think the change has happened in NZ alone.




A bit like Mr Hager saying the need for trasperency outweighs the need for privacy, except of course for his family trust where he keeps all his assets. The mind boggles alright.

Here is a good article that sums this non issue up nicely and shows that once again Labour is flogging a dead horse. Anyone remember Kim Dotflop, Ponytailgate, and now Trustgate, what next ? Yawn.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/panama-papers-dont-reveal-what-opposition-claimed-least-so-far-jw

fungus pudding
12-05-2016, 07:45 AM
Did anyone watch the clip of Key being thrown out of the house? Looked to me that the speaker was way out of line. Key was standing with his back to the speaker and could not possibly have seen him stand. He sat and said nothing once told to. I thought the speaker normally said 'I'm on my feet ' when dealing with a member who could not see him. I don't think Carter will be remembered as one of the brighter speakers. Mind you, it's all good entertainment rather than the usual boredom. Muldoon got great mileage out of being thrown out occasionally as did Lange.

fungus pudding
12-05-2016, 09:53 AM
This might teach Little to stop going off half-cocked.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11637981

Sgt Pepper
12-05-2016, 05:05 PM
NZ Herald headline October 2014
"Finance Minister Bill English says tax cuts will begin taking effect from 2017
NZ Herald May 12 2016
Budget 2016: Government rules out tax cuts

This governments perfidiousness is breathtaking

fungus pudding
12-05-2016, 06:34 PM
NZ Herald headline October 2014
"Finance Minister Bill English says tax cuts will begin taking effect from 2017
NZ Herald May 12 2016
Budget 2016: Government rules out tax cuts

This governments perfidiousness is breathtaking

Perhaps you'd like to quote his full statement rather than a half-baked line with no context.

Daytr
12-05-2016, 08:30 PM
I thought the hole thing was a set up so Key avoided answering questions re the Panama Papers. I don't think anyone has been evicted without warning for such a minor offense.

Re Little he has asked for an enquiry after it has been discovered that there was a donation of $100k was given to the National party coffers around the time of the contract being awarded, and so there should be as it looks very suspect .
McCully defending it just makes it look worse considering his track record.
Its about as hypocritical as sending Collins to a global conference on anti corruption.
Remind me? What was she stood down for?


Did anyone watch the clip of Key being thrown out of the house? Looked to me that the speaker was way out of line. Key was standing with his back to the speaker and could not possibly have seen him stand. He sat and said nothing once told to. I thought the speaker normally said 'I'm on my feet ' when dealing with a member who could not see him. I don't think Carter will be remembered as one of the brighter speakers. Mind you, it's all good entertainment rather than the usual boredom. Muldoon got great mileage out of being thrown out occasionally as did Lange.

fungus pudding
17-05-2016, 04:20 PM
Andrew does it again!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80094729/the-overcrowded-south-auckland-house-that-wasnt-overcrowded

westerly
17-05-2016, 05:16 PM
Andrew does it again!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/80094729/the-overcrowded-south-auckland-house-that-wasnt-overcrowded

Hardly. But your campaign to denigrate any Labour leader shows signs of desperation.

westerly

fungus pudding
17-05-2016, 05:44 PM
Hardly. But your campaign to denigrate any Labour leader shows signs of desperation.

westerly
You've got to admit when he goes out trying to grab a headline, he's a complete disaster- every time.

neopoleII
17-05-2016, 07:20 PM
what i would like to know is.......
where do all the people who bake methamphetamine in rental houses go when they leave, and leave a destroyed home behind?
do they get to go to the next rental house or do the folks in charge of renters references pass on their names to future landlords?
what about those who trash houses and then leave?
or those that never pay rent?
surely someone is making tabs on these people and putting the names into rental / reference databases.....
if so....... there would be quite a few renters that will never be allowed to rent a house again......
are these some of the folks that cry poverty when they cant get into a house because of their past offending?
there have been lots of stories over the years about contaminated P houses and P labs and the ratbags who destroyed these houses.
where do they live now?
what landlord would give them a home to rent?
and then in the provinces we read there are empty homes waiting for tenants.....
it seems that some folks feel they are entitled to an Auckland home no matter what their past history is as a renter.
disc...
my mothers rental house was recently burned from a p lab explosion.
the house is rebuilt and available for rent for the last 8 weeks in manurewa south auckland
the house is empty because no tenant can provide a reference, employment, and police check.
not much to ask for, for a family desperate for accommodation.
yet no takers... the rental agency has apologies to my mother for the past incident as the renters parents were guarantors for the kids uptake of the rental.
the rental agency has yet to be able to find suitable renters that can pass the 3 basic requirements.

there is no rental housing shortage..... there is however a shortage of decent renters.
this is my mothers opinion proven by the rental agency.

Daytr
17-05-2016, 07:40 PM
One example, hardly makes a survey.
If there is a shortage of decent tenants as you say & empty rentals in surplus, rents would be going down not up.
Think you need a bit of a reality check here, although I do feel for what your mother went though.
P is an epidemic that needs to be stamped out.

Daytr
17-05-2016, 07:50 PM
No argument here, he has to go if Labour want any chance of victory at the next election.
The government has had a shocker of a week, with ample evidence that the housing market is out of control and now the MPI turning a blind eye to blatant abuse by commercial fishing contractors. The worst kept secret probably only to the housing bubble.
National has expertly diverted the issue pointing at under supply and laying blame at the Auckland council.
When its obvious that its demand being fuelled by record immigration and they are unwilling to turn the tap down as it would expose their lack of a sustainable economic plan for this country.
Little botches it up again and again & lets Key & cohorts off the hook.


You've got to admit when he goes out trying to grab a headline, he's a complete disaster- every time.

artemis
18-05-2016, 08:47 AM
One example, hardly makes a survey.
If there is a shortage of decent tenants as you say & empty rentals in surplus, rents would be going down not up.
Think you need a bit of a reality check here, although I do feel for what your mother went though.
P is an epidemic that needs to be stamped out.

Here are some relevant numbers - these are Tenancy Tribunal application stats from 2015.

TT applications made 38004

Made by landlords = 34320

Landlords made over 90% of applications. Most applications would be for rent arrears or damage.

That is a truckload of potential tenants who have a record on the TT database, and just for one year. Most property managers and many landlords will check the database (among other checks) and avoid those whose name appears, regardless of the outcome and regardless of who made the application and for what.

One of our clients (not for property management) lost several of their claims against the tenant at TT, but anyone reading the decision would think twice before taking on such a difficult tenant.

westerly
18-05-2016, 09:21 AM
You've got to admit when he goes out trying to grab a headline, he's a complete disaster- every time.

No, but his support team maybe. For the facts behind the story: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/304019/life-in-an-overcrowded,-cold-home

westerly

blackcap
18-05-2016, 09:26 AM
No, but his support team maybe.

westerly

I disagree. The buck stops at Little. Support team reflects on his ability to find the right people around you. I would not want a PM who could not cobble together the correct cabinet/advisers to run the country et al. At this point Little is looking rather inept.

macduffy
18-05-2016, 10:40 AM
I disagree. The buck stops at Little. Support team reflects on his ability to find the right people around you. I would not want a PM who could not cobble together the correct cabinet/advisers to run the country et al. At this point Little is looking rather inept.

I'm waiting for the conspiracy theories about who's planting these bogus leads!

;)

neopoleII
18-05-2016, 11:40 AM
Labour's Housing spokesman Phil Twyford says there could be thousands of houses in Auckland being left empty.


"That's a shame because there are so many people in Auckland desperate to get a roof over their heads," he says.


Building and Housing Minister Nick Smith doesn't think the number of ghost houses is rising, and there is no way of knowing how many of Auckland's 22,000 unoccupied properties are being deliberately left empty.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/ghost-houses-hit-auckland-renting-market

Sgt Pepper
18-05-2016, 12:16 PM
Sept. 1929
"There is no cause to worry. The high tide of prosperity will continue." Andrew W. Mellon, Secretary of the Treasury

2016
Virtually replicates John Keys current state of denial about the impending meltdown in the Auckland housing market. The housing crash will begin in Western Australia and work its way eastwards across the Tasman. When the married and newly over mortgaged are foreclosed in 2017 me thinks they wont be voting National. Mind you John Key will sniff the wind and find some excuse to bail out of the leadership

Snapper
18-05-2016, 12:48 PM
Sept. 1929
"There is no cause to worry. The high tide of prosperity will continue." Andrew W. Mellon, Secretary of the Treasury

2016
Virtually replicates John Keys current state of denial about the impending meltdown in the Auckland housing market. The housing crash will begin in Western Australia and work its way eastwards across the Tasman. When the married and newly over mortgaged are foreclosed in 2017 me thinks they wont be voting National. Mind you John Key will sniff the wind and find some excuse to bail out of the leadership

I agree with you, it would take a disaster of epic proportions before many voters would even consider looking at Labour again. Not for me, though. If I was looking left, the Greens have much more capable people available to them than Labour (not that that is saying much).

fungus pudding
27-05-2016, 10:06 PM
I agree with you, it would take a disaster of epic proportions before many voters would even consider looking at Labour again. Not for me, though. If I was looking left, the Greens have much more capable people available to them than Labour (not that that is saying much).

It's time labour dumped Little. His sputtering reply to the budget was woeful for a man aspiring to be the PM. Labour need a leader who can put the wind up National or Nats will start sleepwalking to the next election. Sort yourselves out labour and keep National on their toes. The only mp with any drive in the opposition is Plonker Peters. The greens leader has a few good ideas but he doesn't present as well as Russell Norman did.

fungus pudding
27-05-2016, 10:28 PM
Sept. 1929
"There is no cause to worry. The high tide of prosperity will continue." Andrew W. Mellon, Secretary of the Treasury

2016
Virtually replicates John Keys current state of denial about the impending meltdown in the Auckland housing market. The housing crash will begin in Western Australia and work its way eastwards across the Tasman. When the married and newly over mortgaged are foreclosed in 2017 me thinks they wont be voting National. Mind you John Key will sniff the wind and find some excuse to bail out of the leadership

An interesting prediction so I'll reply to lock it in.

fungus pudding
28-05-2016, 08:58 AM
Has Grant Robertson seen the light?

Seen on Nation this morning sporting a blue shirt and blue tie and even performed quite well. Is this a latter day conversion? Is he about to come out again?

fungus pudding
31-05-2016, 02:44 PM
Greens and Labour coalesce.

They are forming a coaltion without being elected??? That means agreeing on policies before either party can announce anything. It also means 3 leaders. Good luck to them both.

Snapper
31-05-2016, 03:46 PM
Greens and Labour coalesce.

They are forming a coaltion without being elected??? That means agreeing on policies before either party can announce anything. It also means 3 leaders. Good luck to them both.

It's a triumvirate!

fungus pudding
31-05-2016, 06:47 PM
It's a triumvirate!

Gee - thanks. Had to look that one up, but I've learnt a new word.

Sgt Pepper
31-05-2016, 09:31 PM
John Key addressing National Party delegates at the Langham Hotel Auckland 2007

"But the Kiwi dream of home ownership is under threat. Fewer New Zealanders own their own home than ever before. Some choose not to buy a house, but many more simply can't afford to buy one.
International surveys rank New Zealand as having the second worst housing affordability problem in the world. Auckland is one of the 25 least affordable cities on the planet. But it's not just a problem in Auckland. You can buy a condo on the Miami waterfront for less than the price of the latest beachfront apartment on the Kapiti Coast."

Bjauck
02-06-2016, 07:54 AM
John Key addressing National Party delegates at the Langham Hotel Auckland 2007

"But the Kiwi dream of home ownership is under threat. Fewer New Zealanders own their own home than ever before. Some choose not to buy a house, but many more simply can't afford to buy one.
International surveys rank New Zealand as having the second worst housing affordability problem in the world. Auckland is one of the 25 least affordable cities on the planet. But it's not just a problem in Auckland. You can buy a condo on the Miami waterfront for less than the price of the latest beachfront apartment on the Kapiti Coast."


People often tell an audience what they think they want to hear. John Key has said that Trump will probably not carry out promises he has made on the hustings, should he become President...

Recognising that owning a home is increasingly out of reach of many people is one thing; being motivated and/or doing something substantial to address it is obviously another. Owing to many reasons, investor housing as opposed to stocks & bonds - in NZ - has long been the default, and far and away the most substantial, saving "scheme". Just look at the register of MPs interests to see how many own, directly or through trusts, multiple properties. In addition, older people with assets are more likely to be voters than others apparently. I think both major parties could put their electoral popularity at risk if they sought to put effective dampeners on (let alone measures to reduce) house prices.

How popular would real estate price cooling measures & any legislative changes really be with all those property owning MPs? So it is a bit of catch 22 situation.

BlackPeter
02-06-2016, 12:12 PM
People often tell an audience what they think they want to hear. John Key has said that Trump will probably not carry out promises he has made on the hustings, should he become President...

Recognising that owning a home is increasingly out of reach of many people is one thing; being motivated and/or doing something substantial to address it is obviously another. Owing to many reasons, investor housing as opposed to stocks & bonds - in NZ - has long been the default, and far and away the most substantial, saving "scheme". Just look at the register of MPs interests to see how many own, directly or through trusts, multiple properties. In addition, older people with assets are more likely to be voters than others apparently. I think both major parties could put their electoral popularity at risk if they sought to put effective dampeners on (let alone measures to reduce) house prices.

How popular would real estate price cooling measures & any legislative changes really be with all those property owning MPs? So it is a bit of catch 22 situation.

Absolutely agree. Any party who would manage to reduce house prices in NZ by any meaningful margin would be chased out of government by legions of angry house owners and these would make very sure that the offending party will stay for decades to come in opposition. People have long memories who destroyed their fortunes ...

This explains why its always the opposition party who asks for a reduction of house prices (asking the government to commit political suicide is a very convenient way for the opposition to come to power); But this is as well the reason why any measure to reduce house prices will be designed to not work.

BTW - and above statements are true in all cases, no matter which party is in government and which in opposition.

winner69
02-06-2016, 12:20 PM
John Key addressing National Party delegates at the Langham Hotel Auckland 2007

"But the Kiwi dream of home ownership is under threat. Fewer New Zealanders own their own home than ever before. Some choose not to buy a house, but many more simply can't afford to buy one.
International surveys rank New Zealand as having the second worst housing affordability problem in the world. Auckland is one of the 25 least affordable cities on the planet. But it's not just a problem in Auckland. You can buy a condo on the Miami waterfront for less than the price of the latest beachfront apartment on the Kapiti Coast."



Apparently he used the word 'crisis' nearly 30 times in that speech

But never mind Nick working hard on sorting the crisis out

Bjauck
02-06-2016, 04:11 PM
Apparently he used the word 'crisis' nearly 30 times in that speech

But never mind Nick working hard on sorting the crisis out The Minister is working well. He got us up to the top of the league - we are number one most unaffordable now. To be fair to the good doctor, government "policy" did the work for him.

Commentators are likening the Auckland Housing market to the share market bubble in 1986. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11649398#14648339172741&19879007

Daytr
02-06-2016, 08:45 PM
Voters will also remember the government who did nothing if the bubble pops and the effect is much greater than any reasonable measures to reign in prices. The level of debt would become very interesting if prices dropped 20% or more. With low interest rates leverage will be rising based on equity that could disappear as faster than it was made.

Sgt Pepper
03-06-2016, 09:21 AM
Voters will also remember the government who did nothing if the bubble pops and the effect is much greater than any reasonable measures to reign in prices. The level of debt would become very interesting if prices dropped 20% or more. With low interest rates leverage will be rising based on equity that could disappear as faster than it was made.
Daytr
You make a good point in your observation as to what carries more political risk. I do disagree in one aspect. I don't believe prices may drop 20%, there is a very high probability prices will drop 20% or more. Should that occur many of Nationals core constituents, the married and over mortgaged will rapidly arrive at the unhappy point of negative equity or worse face foreclosure. Compounding this imagine what will happen when interest rates return to normal. Any government in power in this scenario will reap a whirlwind of displeasure from a cohort of supporters whose dreams and aspirations are ruined.
Watch this space. If you have purchased a home in Auckland and are mortgaged to the hilt sell now , before it is too late.

Bjauck
03-06-2016, 11:05 AM
Daytr
You make a good point in your observation as to what carries more political risk. I do disagree in one aspect. I don't believe prices may drop 20%, there is a very high probability prices will drop 20% or more. Should that occur many of Nationals core constituents, the married and over mortgaged will rapidly arrive at the unhappy point of negative equity or worse face foreclosure. Compounding this imagine what will happen when interest rates return to normal. Any government in power in this scenario will reap a whirlwind of displeasure from a cohort of supporters whose dreams and aspirations are ruined.
Watch this space. If you have purchased a home in Auckland and are mortgaged to the hilt sell now , before it is too late.

After a period of rapid escalation, British average house prices went from GBP 62,700 in Q3 1989 to a low of GBP 50,100 in Q1 1993. In real terms (after inflation) it took until 2002 for average prices to recover to the value they were at in 1989. The swing was worse in London. Plenty of people were stuck with negative equity. The long-term Conservative Government was ousted by a massive swing to Labour in 1997. And then there was the GFC in 2007-8. http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/indices-nationwide-national-inflation.php

When the stars cease to be in good alignment, will NZ be different?

fungus pudding
03-06-2016, 11:11 AM
After a period of rapid escalation, British average house prices went from GBP 62,700 in Q3 1989 to a low of GBP 50,100 in Q1 1993. In real terms (after inflation) it took until 2002 for average prices to recover to the value they were at in 1989. The swing was worse in London. Plenty of people were stuck with negative equity. The long-term Conservative Government was ousted by a massive swing to Labour in 1997. And then there was the GFC in 2007-8. http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/indices-nationwide-national-inflation.php

When the stars cease to be in good alignment, will NZ be different?

What is more likely is we will go into a long period of stable house prices in nominal terms, meaning real value will fall but with little negative effect. It's happened many times in NZ.

Bjauck
03-06-2016, 12:23 PM
What is more likely is we will go into a long period of stable house prices in nominal terms, meaning real value will fall but with little negative effect. It's happened many times in NZ.
There were, even in nominal terms, house price drops in NZ in 2000-01 and in 2007-09. Maybe these drops were not as large or as sustained as has happened in other places. However they occurred. After a period of sustained increases as has happened in Auckland and elsewhere, let's hope we'll get another softish landing, despite NZ now having the most expensive housing (price to average incomes) in the World (IMF).

fungus pudding
04-06-2016, 10:04 AM
What a woeful performance on the Nation this morning from Andrew Little. Even the greens woman who he appeared with handled the interview better than Little. Lot of fun coming up before the election for Labour. They obviously realise Little will never make P.M.

Bjauck
04-06-2016, 12:57 PM
What a woeful performance on the Nation this morning from Andrew Little. Even the greens woman who he appeared with handled the interview better than Little. Lot of fun coming up before the election for Labour. They obviously realise Little will never make P.M.
I must admit, I am not overly inspired by Little. A David Lange he isn't.

fungus pudding
06-06-2016, 11:10 AM
I must admit, I am not overly inspired by Little. A David Lange he isn't.

I think we'll see Winston First scream rapidly up the ladder in preferred Prime Minister polls. That's a worry - I hope I'm wrong. That would give him too much clout for the role of PM when he fluffs around deciding what is best for the country after the election (only for the country of course, Winston isn't interested in baubles) .

fungus pudding
07-06-2016, 05:19 PM
I think we'll see Winston First scream rapidly up the ladder in preferred Prime Minister polls. That's a worry - I hope I'm wrong. That would give him too much clout for the role of PM when he fluffs around deciding what is best for the country after the election (only for the country of course, Winston isn't interested in baubles) .

Latest poll has Winston first on 12% for preferred P.M. Well ahead of Little on 7%. He'll be lapping it up,

fungus pudding
22-07-2016, 10:57 AM
Latest poll has Winston first on 12% for preferred P.M. Well ahead of Little on 7%. He'll be lapping it up,


http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6902-roy-morgan-new-zealand-voting-intention-july-2016-201607211639

If this sort of polling keeps up National may be able to avoid dealing with pain in the butt Winston; particularly if Act can pick up a bit, which I'm sure they will.

Major von Tempsky
25-07-2016, 03:58 PM
Oh, I think you should say it aloud rather than relying on EZ to read it, which he will obviously avoid!

"During July support for National jumped a large 10% to 53%, now well ahead of a potential Labour/Greens alliance 37% (down 5.5%). If a New Zealand Election was held now the latest NZ Roy Morgan Poll shows National, with their biggest lead since May 2015, would win easily....

Support fell for all three Parliamentary Opposition parties; Labour’s support was 25.5% (down 2.5%) – the lowest support for Labour since May 2015; Greens support was 11.5% (down 3%) and NZ First 7% (down 2%). Of parties outside Parliament the Conservative Party of NZ was 0.5% (down 0.5%), the Mana Party was 0.5% (unchanged) and support for Independent/ Other was 0.5% (down 0.5%).

The NZ Roy Morgan Government Confidence Rating has increased to 127pts (up 6.5pts) in July with 57.5% (up 3%) of NZ electors saying NZ is ‘heading in the right direction’ compared to 30.5% (down 3.5%) that say NZ is ‘heading in the wrong direction’."

fungus pudding
27-07-2016, 12:55 PM
Labour's prospective partner - the green party's unbelievable nail in coffin announcement.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11682323

Be fascinating to know what tax exemptions property investors get that the green woman is on about.
I'll bet she couldn't name one that doesn't apply to all businesses.
On top of that - property investing must be the only one where depreciation is disallowed as an expense.
I'll bet my bottom dollar that Labour will not have a bar of that. That'll put a dent in their supposed joint policy position.

Major von Tempsky
29-07-2016, 05:30 PM
With the last poll announcement it certainly is "when" rather than "if" :-).

One can't help admiring the brilliant way National has finessed the Greens and Labour with it's eliminate all predators by 2050.

EZ and Daytr keep forgetting/ignoring the fact that when over 50% of households own their own house (some with the further advantage of mortgage gearing) then they laughing all the way to the bank with price rises. Naturally they don't say anything publicly but in the privacy of polling booths and anonymous opinion polls they know which side of the bread is buttered.

Daytr
29-07-2016, 08:53 PM
So you think its a good thing that the average house price in Auckland is almost 10 times the average wage?
The predator policy is a joke. I can just see National strategists sitting around dreaming up a populist policy they will never have to deliver on.


With the last poll announcement it certainly is "when" rather than "if" :-).

One can't help admiring the brilliant way National has finessed the Greens and Labour with it's eliminate all predators by 2050.

EZ and Daytr keep forgetting/ignoring the fact that when over 50% of households own their own house (some with the further advantage of mortgage gearing) then they laughing all the way to the bank with price rises. Naturally they don't say anything publicly but in the privacy of polling booths and anonymous opinion polls they know which side of the bread is buttered.

Major von Tempsky
01-08-2016, 11:31 AM
Such a "joke" that lots of people are voting for it in public opinion polls :-)

If you want housing you can either buy a cottage in an outlying area of North Auckland (now forcibly changed to Northland) and carpool or bus or entrain or drive into Auckland, or do what growing numbers of people are doing - get a job and housing in Hawkes Bay, Tauranga/BoP, Waikato.

RGR367
02-08-2016, 08:07 AM
On pay walled NBR: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/rich-lister-loveridge-denies-political-moves-sends-labour-warning-rh-p-192385

Hutt South, once one of the safest Labour seats in the country, is now marginal. And Greg Loveridge said that the speculation that he will stand in veteran MP Trevor Mallard’s Hutt South electorate is wide of the mark.
He warned that “Labour needs to move away from leftist anti-trade and anti-growth populism and try to make an actual difference to people’s lives rather than keeping its bloggers happy.”

winner69
02-08-2016, 08:43 AM
On pay walled NBR: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/rich-lister-loveridge-denies-political-moves-sends-labour-warning-rh-p-192385

Hutt South, once one of the safest Labour seats in the country, is now marginal. And Greg Loveridge said that the speculation that he will stand in veteran MP Trevor Mallard’s Hutt South electorate is wide of the mark.
He warned that “Labour needs to move away from leftist anti-trade and anti-growth populism and try to make an actual difference to people’s lives rather than keeping its bloggers happy.”

“Labour needs to move away from leftist anti-trade and anti-growth populism and try to make an actual difference to people’s lives rather than keeping its bloggers happy.”


I don't think Labour is that party

Sadly i don't think there is any party who want's to do that at the moment

Opportunity for some breakaway party?

RGR367
02-08-2016, 08:46 PM
“Labour needs to move away from leftist anti-trade and anti-growth populism and try to make an actual difference to people’s lives rather than keeping its bloggers happy.”


I don't think Labour is that party

Sadly i don't think there is any party who want's to do that at the moment

Opportunity for some breakaway party?

W69, not sure if you read that pay walled article. Just in case not, Greg Loveridge is a long standing Labour Party member.

Major von Tempsky
04-08-2016, 09:28 AM
On the outdated thread someone is busy fulminating about local authorities.

Look at the voter turnout for local body elections compared to the voter turnout for national elections.

For that reason you have to say that what's done by the NZ Government is far more democratic than what is done by local government. For that reason I back NZ Government over Local Authorities - every time!

tim23
07-08-2016, 04:19 PM
Just bought NBR rich list mentions Greg Loveridge as a first class crickiter quite right did play a test too but never bowled due to injury could bat a bit too after his leggies fell away

GTM 3442
07-08-2016, 04:32 PM
“Labour needs to move away from leftist anti-trade and anti-growth populism and try to make an actual difference to people’s lives rather than keeping its bloggers happy.”


I don't think Labour is that party

Sadly i don't think there is any party who want's to do that at the moment

Opportunity for some breakaway party?

Labour tends to win when the electorate has had enough of the National Party after three (occasionally four) terms, and to win big when they have a clear policy platform which is well communicated.

They're half way there. . .

Major von Tempsky
11-08-2016, 04:51 PM
Nah, they are still desperately struggling. Few days and another poll will be out contradicting the last one.

Someone on this thread said it wasn't clear which way Winston Peters would go.

Occasionally, not often, I have to agree with Winnie the Pooh, the Bear of very little brain.
WP has always said that he will go with the Party that wins the most seats on election night and it's very clear, even from that last poll, that that Party (National) will be streets ahead of Labour. Labour/Green is not a Party, it's two separate Parties, besides which WP absolutely detests the Greens, always has and always will.

There seems to be an assumption by some people that political parties have turns and that after 3 or 4 terms Labour will inevitably win.

It doesn't work that way, Labour has to do something to deserve the voters support. A Tony Blair type New Labour with more centrist policy or a Roger Douglas with some radical policy.

fungus pudding
11-08-2016, 05:14 PM
Nah, they are still desperately struggling. Few days and another poll will be out contradicting the last one.

Someone on this thread said it wasn't clear which way Winston Peters would go.

Occasionally, not often, I have to agree with Winnie the Pooh, the Bear of very little brain.
WP has always said that he will go with the Party that wins the most seats on election night and it's very clear, even from that last poll, that that Party (National) will be streets ahead of Labour.

Not quite. He talks to the most popular party first, which means the party vote - not seat count. Or that's what he says but Winston first has a very flexible rule book when it suits him,

fungus pudding
20-09-2016, 05:42 AM
This is a good move. Housing NZ have bought a block of flats (originally motels) that have mainly vacant units -- 7 out of 11 - to run as housing units. Good on them.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11712162

fungus pudding
01-12-2016, 03:55 PM
Poor old Andrew. Big mistake to upset Nick Leggett. Another nail in the coffin.

elZorro
01-12-2016, 08:35 PM
Poor old Andrew. Big mistake to upset Nick Leggett. Another nail in the coffin.

What nail? Nick Leggett has been a right winger for a while by the look of it.


Wiki: In August 2016, Labour Leader Andrew Little (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Little_(New_Zealand_politician)) accused Leggett of being a "right-winger", alleging that his campaign manager for the Wellington Mayoral election was a well-known ACT Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACT_New_Zealand) figure.[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leggett#cite_note-17) Leggett came second in the mayoral race (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington_City_mayoral_election,_2016), finishing about 6,000 votes behind Lester.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leggett#cite_note-18) Leggett then changed allegiance to the National Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_National_Party) later that year citing ideological differences with Labour's leadership and announced he intends to seek the National candidacy for the Mana electorate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mana_(New_Zealand_electorate)) in 2017.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leggett#cite_note-19)


FP, get over it, Andrew Little is going to be the Labour leader for years yet. We've done enough changing for a decade.

fungus pudding
02-12-2016, 08:27 AM
What nail? Nick Leggett has been a right winger for a while by the look of it.



FP, get over it, Andrew Little is going to be the Labour leader for years yet. We've done enough changing for a decade.

Ok. I'll try and get over it. Very pleased to hear that Mr. Little will be the leader for years.

fungus pudding
08-12-2016, 01:11 PM
English has the numbers and will be appointed leader on Monday and has announced Stephen Joyce will be Minister of Finance. Just deputy leader to be appointed now. I hope Paula Bennett gets that. There's a team that will blow Labour Green party into the dust.

Sgt Pepper
08-12-2016, 01:37 PM
English has the numbers and will be appointed leader on Monday and has announced Stephen Joyce will be Minister of Finance. Just deputy leader to be appointed now. I hope Paula Bennett gets that. There's a team that will blow Labour Green party into the dust.

i agree, fantastic news

fungus pudding
08-12-2016, 02:32 PM
i agree, fantastic news

eZ won't think so. He reckons Labour/greens have a chance. it's all he lives for.

777
08-12-2016, 03:30 PM
Labour have no chance with the Greens and the Greens have no chance without Labour.

Goff gone. Cunliffe going. Shearer going. Who's next?

BlackPeter
08-12-2016, 03:53 PM
Labour have no chance with the Greens and the Greens have no chance without Labour.

Goff gone. Cunliffe going. Shearer going. Who's next?

Sadly - Little is left ;)

craic
08-12-2016, 04:09 PM
There will be an early election. Early next November. Time enough for another two or three Labour people to have a go at running the party.

fungus pudding
08-12-2016, 04:41 PM
There will be an early election. Early next November. Time enough for another two or three Labour people to have a go at running the party.

Might be a bit earlier. National won't want to give them time to replace little.

westerly
08-12-2016, 05:34 PM
Sadly - Little is left ;)

2500 Christchurch State houses are being offered to Australian buyers according to todays Press.
Local organisations concerned with the homeless do not want anything to do with what is ultimately the State’s responsibility.
Opportunity for Labour to announce they would buyback any sold to overseas buyers?
Time Andrew and Labour moved further left and showed the legacy of Douglas and Prebble is finally history?

westerly

fungus pudding
10-12-2016, 10:35 AM
Engish and Bennett it is. Good to see both Coleman and Bridges making graceful withdrawals. Both offered warm congratulations to the new P.M and deputy. Labour of couse wil crow and scoff. That's politics. National would do the same. Fact is though, the polls for preferred party will not change, although preferred PM poll will take a while to settle, but English will top it.
So Labour still have that big - Little problem.

BlackPeter
10-12-2016, 01:46 PM
Time Andrew and Labour moved further left and showed the legacy of Douglas and Prebble is finally history?

westerly
This would be a clever move ... to keep them permanently out of power.

I think you forget that the task of parliament is to represent the people. While roughly 1/3rd of the people (30 to 40%) are left the same amount are right. The reminder of voters are in the middle (the Liberals, whether they are organised in a separate party or just changing their vote depending on party policies).

If the system requires that the government represents the people, the government either needs to be middle / left or middle / right (as National does these days).

No government under a democratic system using the popular vote as determinator (as NZ does under MMP) can govern without liberal support. I.e. if Labour wants to govern they need to move right and vow the liberals.

Extremists (left or right) can only get into government if the system ignores the will of the majority of the people. The US is e.g. an extreme FPP system - in most states it is the largest block (not the majority) of voters who get 100% to say. This is a system excluding the liberals (which is normally a bit smaller group than right or left) and voting for extremist crooks like Trump. Glad we have MMP.

westerly
10-12-2016, 03:45 PM
This would be a clever move ... to keep them permanently out of power.

I think you forget that the task of parliament is to represent the people. While roughly 1/3rd of the people (30 to 40%) are left the same amount are right. The reminder of voters are in the middle (the Liberals, whether they are organised in a separate party or just changing their vote depending on party policies).

If the system requires that the government represents the people, the government either needs to be middle / left or middle / right (as National does these days).

No government under a democratic system using the popular vote as determinator (as NZ does under MMP) can govern without liberal support. I.e. if Labour wants to govern they need to move right and vow the liberals.

Extremists (left or right) can only get into government if the system ignores the will of the majority of the people. The US is e.g. an extreme FPP system - in most states it is the largest block (not the majority) of voters who get 100% to say. This is a system excluding the liberals (which is normally a bit smaller group than right or left) and voting for extremist crooks like Trump. Glad we have MMP.

Funny how the left always refers to the extreme left, i.e. communist, red, or whatever while the right invariably is the centre right, not the extreme right. Maybe ACT.
Labour needs to represent the bottom fifty -five percent not try to to be please the top 45% as well. National has been representing the top 45%

westerly

fungus pudding
10-12-2016, 03:50 PM
Funny how the left always refers to the extreme left, i.e. communist, red, or whatever while the right invariably is the centre right, not the extreme right. Maybe ACT.
Labour needs to represent the bottom fifty -five percent not try to to be please the top 45% as well. National has been representing the top 45%

westerly
That is ridiculous. Labour should plan to govern for all, just as National has always done. Fortunately they won't be governing anything till they solve the big - Little problem.

Joshuatree
10-12-2016, 04:47 PM
Im so pleased Andrew Little avoids the crosby/textor teflon/slippery Key approach. Little is a genuine person. Key fooled folks for quite some time but left a legacy of higher debt and child poverty and a major housing problem with people living in cars and shacks because of large rent increases and not enough houses available and Immigration another story;made the books and economy look better; polish that virtual halo ehh. Key only fiddled with these things and only as public opinion became more vociferous depending on his advisors ratings re where public opinion is . Anything to stay in power ; that was no 1 priority not what was good for the country. Key gone and Bill bumbling/fumbling a leadership attempt again, accelerating the fall of National. A hospital pass to Bill as the by election results shock Key and he bails.Thanks Key ,we know you won't look back. IMO.This thread title is starting to look a little desperate.;)

777
10-12-2016, 04:53 PM
Well go and post with ez then

http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?8606-If-National-wins/page752

fungus pudding
11-12-2016, 08:39 AM
Im so pleased Andrew Little avoids the crosby/textor teflon/slippery Key approach. Little is a genuine person. Key fooled folks for quite some time but left a legacy of higher debt and child poverty and a major housing problem with people living in cars and shacks because of large rent increases and not enough houses available and Immigration another story;made the books and economy look better; polish that virtual halo ehh. Key only fiddled with these things and only as public opinion became more vociferous depending on his advisors ratings re where public opinion is . Anything to stay in power ; that was no 1 priority not what was good for the country. Key gone and Bill bumbling/fumbling a leadership attempt again, accelerating the fall of National. A hospital pass to Bill as the by election results shock Key and he bails.Thanks Key ,we know you won't look back. IMO.This thread title is starting to look a little desperate.;)

No doubt you watched the uninspiring Littlle with the equally uninspiring co-leader of Labour/Greens, English and Bennett were the clear winners, and they didn't even bother showing up.
But I do wonder how Labour/Green works. Greens have Labour outnumbered with leaders 2 to 1. Doesn't seem fair.

winner69
11-12-2016, 08:46 AM
Was Joyce hinting at Nats new theme for election on TV this morning

Continuity with Change or something like that


Sounds rather Crosby Textor like

fungus pudding
11-12-2016, 09:21 AM
Was Joyce hinting at Nats new theme for election on TV this morning

Continuity with Change or something like that


Sounds rather Crosby Textor like

Don't tell us you've got some problem with this crowd like eZ has? They appear to be an advertising or PR crowd who I doubt many have ever heard of.
Doesn't every party and reasonable size business use outside PR advisors? Although Labour seems to have their own in-house one in Matt McArten. (A hangover from the dreaded Cunlifffe IIRCC. Maybe not their best option - to state the obvious)

Joshuatree
11-12-2016, 11:20 AM
People are slowly waking up to the permanent spinmeisters national has become thanks to the spinmeister himself Key and Crosby/Textor etc.. Its a more subtle version of Trumps who says he has nothing to apologise for;(racism; hate smear tactics totally false) because "I WON".

Great Banksy type Art of Key in Tauranga alley way which i found last night. He is dancing ,flipping the bird saying "Don't Vote" and above him (you can't see)is a UFO beaming him up(Scotty). Great social commentary.

fungus pudding
11-12-2016, 12:06 PM
People are slowly waking up to the permanent spinmeisters national has become thanks to the spinmeister himself Key and Crosby/Textor etc.

And others are waking up to the amount of garbage spun by National's enemies. Consider this old posting that doesn't appear to have one word of truth in it.

http://layout-pat.blogspot.co.nz/2009/09/sad-announcement-of-disolvement-of.html

Joshuatree
11-12-2016, 03:59 PM
Heres part of the Banksy type art. Flying saucer beaming him up is out of pic.Says it all.
Banksy-style painting of John Key appears in Tauranga | Stuff.co.nz (https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjuvf74n-vQAhVCp5QKHZeGACMQFggaMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stuff.co.nz%2Fentertainment%2 F87239886%2Fbanksystyle-painting-of-john-key-appears-in-tauranga&usg=AFQjCNFN0_EE-v8tUZ7rgp9NerqgX5Xz4w&sig2=dcb8BqjcZcmjQ__vUTy9Gw)

fungus pudding
12-12-2016, 08:34 PM
English and Bennett off to a flying start. Next poll will frighten Labour supporters into panic mode when they see their party has not gained at all. Mind you they'll crow their beaks off when Aderne wins Mt. Albert. It would be too cruel for National to win that one.

Sgt Pepper
12-12-2016, 11:56 PM
I know everything is just all jolly. The boys and girls who were threatened with losing their jobs if they didn't vote the right way, why they will let bygones be bygones. I am sure at the next parliamentary recess gathering they will spend a night around a splendid camp fire singing Kumbyyah. Bill will retire and read Maciavelli

But if Bill loses next year, it wont be Kumbyyah they will be singing., and definitely no holding hands around the camp fire, and bygones will definitely not be bygones.

fungus pudding
14-12-2016, 04:51 PM
What a deal! Labour has lost David Shearer and gained Laila Harre. That's like replacing your car with a push-bike.
Wadda y' reckon eZ?

BlackPeter
14-12-2016, 05:09 PM
What a deal! Labour has lost David Shearer and gained Laila Harre. That's like replacing your car with a push-bike.
Wadda y' reckon eZ?

Gosh, what did the poor push bike do to you? Push bikes don't swap their owners nor their views for bribes, and they don't steal IP from their owners either (ask the Greens about Leila);

One Laila must be as effective as several Littles in keeping Labour away from government ... and just imagine - these 2 working in a team together :lol:

Joshuatree
14-12-2016, 08:06 PM
I know everything is just all jolly. The boys and girls who were threatened with losing their jobs if they didn't vote the right way, why they will let bygones be bygones. I am sure at the next parliamentary recess gathering they will spend a night around a splendid camp fire singing Kumbyyah. Bill will retire and read Maciavelli

But if Bill loses next year, it wont be Kumbyyah they will be singing., and definitely no holding hands around the camp fire, and bygones will definitely not be bygones.

Divine humour (never a truer word said in jest) thanks.

fungus pudding
15-12-2016, 06:41 AM
I know everything is just all jolly. The boys and girls who were threatened with losing their jobs if they didn't vote the right way,

What a silly thing to say.

fungus pudding
18-12-2016, 02:56 PM
Good on you Bill. Pleased to see Amy Adams rising in the ranks, and pleased to see Collins dropping. Would have liked to see a new Minister of Health, and Coleman sent away for voice training. Overall it looks pretty good - certainly good enough to win the next election.

:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::c ool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

Sgt Pepper
18-12-2016, 03:39 PM
What a silly thing to say.

FP
If telling the truth is silly then so be it.

As I was the only poster who predicted in a post in December 2014 that John Key would resign in December 2016 or January 2017 , which was dismissed by right wing contributors as being wishful thinking at best it is with some confidence that I make the following observations/predictions.

Bill English has a cocktail of risks which may prevent him leading National to a fourth term.
Internal National Conflict
Judith Collins has effectively been demoted and will not hestiate to pounce at any sign of weakness in pre election polling

Clutha Southland Electorate
We are witnessing an unparalled internal party conflict in Bil Englishs old seat. Even if, as is likely Todd Barclay heads off the challenge of Mr Flood from Queenstown, this bitter, and prolonged dispute will take its toll.

Auckland Housing market
50% of the Houses auctioned at Barfoots auction last week failed to sell. Should this decline extend to the "married and overmortgaged" and be compounded by rising Mortgage rates then many will arrive at the very unhappy land called Negative Equity. This, as National is well aware , will have dire political consequences in an election, quite apart from the economic ones

Paula Bennet
Promoting someone well beyond their competency levels is very unwise and will provide a happy hunting ground fo opposition parties, the media and her internal National Party collaegues. I am not sure what is more dangerous
Winston Peters
Now that John Key has departed, whom Winston despised he is more likely to do a post election deal with National than Labour. That is true. HOWEVER the cost will be very very high. This is what Winsnton will demand from Bill English
1. One third of all Cabinet positions, and no that doesn't mean he will be happy as Minister of arts and culture. Pro rata allocation for NZ First appointments to SOE boards. Goodbye Jenny Shipley
2). taking as an example from Israel coalition politics he will demand that he have tenure as Prime Minister for one year in the second year of the coalition government

2017 will be an interesting political year

fungus pudding
12-02-2017, 04:09 PM
With Laila Harre, Will Jackson and ring leader Matt McArten, surely it would make sense to re-name Labour 'The New Alliance party'

BlackPeter
12-02-2017, 04:57 PM
With Laila Harre, Will Jackson and ring leader Matt McArten, surely it would make sense to re-name Labour 'The New Alliance party'

Why bother? How long do you think they will all stick together?

fungus pudding
12-02-2017, 06:08 PM
Why bother? How long do you think they will all stick together?
They could always recruit Jim Anderton to mould them into a team. He'd be excellent.- We all learn from failure.

westerly
13-02-2017, 01:50 PM
Why bother? How long do you think they will all stick together?

About as long as Bill and Judith

westerly

fungus pudding
13-02-2017, 02:09 PM
About as long as Bill and Judith

westerly

How long is that?

Baa_Baa
21-03-2017, 07:59 PM
Well, that was sooner than expected, Adern overtakes Little as preferred Prime Minister (in the Labour caucus). Took most of her gains off Little.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/90663942/bill-english-less-popular-than-john-key-as-preferred-pm-new-poll-finds

Bill took a big hit as well.

Shaping up to be an interesting election battle at this rate.

fungus pudding
21-03-2017, 11:53 PM
Well, that was sooner than expected, Adern overtakes Little as preferred Prime Minister (in the Labour caucus). Took most of her gains off Little.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/90663942/bill-english-less-popular-than-john-key-as-preferred-pm-new-poll-finds

Bill took a big hit as well.

Shaping up to be an interesting election battle at this rate.

What was English before? I don't think he's slipped at all.

elZorro
22-03-2017, 06:16 AM
What was English before? I don't think he's slipped at all.

Although it was a different polling company, Bill English was rated at 31% as preferred PM a month or so ago, now it's more like 25%.

Again, Labour will need to do some thinking on behalf of the country and start to sort out water use issues. Don't expect any help from the National Party.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/90656177/andrew-little-putting-a-charge-on-water-exports-is-a-real-issue-for-kiwis

fungus pudding
22-03-2017, 07:14 AM
Although it was a different polling company, Bill English was rated at 31% as preferred PM a month or so ago, now it's more like 25%.

Again, Labour will need to do some thinking on behalf of the country and start to sort out water use issues. Don't expect any help from the National Party.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/90656177/andrew-little-putting-a-charge-on-water-exports-is-a-real-issue-for-kiwis

And what, pray tell, will happen to the country if Labour don't 'sort it out' ? Do you really want beer to go up in price? Not that a teetotaller like me would care!

craic
22-03-2017, 09:36 AM
In the Dark Ages English schoolboys were fed beer instead of water for obvious reasons. The easiest way to guarantee safety when drinking water is to add 40% ethanol to the water. It is not an election issue - the people poisoned recently were from the upmarket area of Havelock North where voting anything but National is a mortal sin. There is a rumour that Ian Wishart is writing a book on the event suggesting a left wing conspiracy to use dung beetles to take out strong National support areas in the next election.

fungus pudding
27-05-2017, 08:51 AM
You can breathe easy again eZ. Stephen Joyce demonstrated how quickly and easily he has settled into the finance portfolio on the Nation this morning. He even had a better tie on than when he presented the budget. I hope he gets a few more good ties, cos he'll have a few more budgets to deliver.

fungus pudding
08-06-2017, 09:46 AM
Oh dear eZ. Latest poll showing Labour/Greens don't equal National's 49% even if NZ First is added. Still - we all know polling 'doesn't matter' to parties when they're not favourable.

Sgt Pepper
08-06-2017, 03:02 PM
You can breathe easy again eZ. Stephen Joyce demonstrated how quickly and easily he has settled into the finance portfolio on the Nation this morning. He even had a better tie on than when he presented the budget. I hope he gets a few more good ties, cos he'll have a few more budgets to deliver.

I note how "quickly and easy" he has settled into embracing and extending Communism by stealth.

fungus pudding
15-06-2017, 05:33 PM
Don't worry about the new TV3 poll eZ. Polls don't count.

fungus pudding
30-07-2017, 05:08 PM
Oh dear eZ. Better get door-knocking. Latest poll just about has Andrew Little not returning. Would that mean Jacinda Adern automatically becomes leader?

craic
30-07-2017, 06:10 PM
So all the hard-done-by beneficiaries have fled Labour for the Greens. MT has been promoted from possibly a criminal offender to a saint of the losers. Winston Peters must be really troubled w0ndering where his future lies.

fungus pudding
31-07-2017, 04:07 PM
Talk of replacing Little before the election on radio news suggested Robinson or Twyford. Personally I don't think they'll bother until after the election, or more likely - only a fool would put his or her hand up at the moment.
Here's a prediction from me, especially for eZ. If Twyford ever gets to be leader he will prove more unpopular than Little.
The eventual saviour for Labour is probably Stuart Nash.

BlackPeter
31-07-2017, 04:13 PM
Talk of replacing Little before the election on radio news suggested Robinson or Twyford. Personally I don't think they'll bother until after the election, or more likely - only a fool would put his or her hand up at the moment.
Here's a prediction from me, especially for eZ. If Twyford ever gets to be leader he will prove more unpopular than Little.
The eventual saviour for Labour is probably Stuart Nash.

But remember - they want to stay in opposition!

So - Phil Twyford it is - wasn't this the joker with the "Chinese sounding names"?

craic
31-07-2017, 04:28 PM
Stuart Nash is our local MP here in Napier and I have been impressed with him up to a point. However he has a tendency to hop onto bandwagons locally such as a proposed sale of shares in the port and other issues. His blog in the paper the other night leaned heavily on the record of his Grandfather? Sir Walter. I was surprised that Labour seem less than enthusiastic about him. He did what Little never did - he won an electorate seat.

fungus pudding
31-07-2017, 04:31 PM
But remember - they want to stay in opposition!

So - Phil Twyford it is - wasn't this the joker with the "Chinese sounding names"?

That's him. His sole mission is to prove to the Labour party that Cunliffe wasn't the most unlikeable member in their ranks.

Joshuatree
31-07-2017, 05:07 PM
John Key "They just stayed committed to what we were doing. They were just rusted on. They still are," he said, perhaps sticking to the cookware theme that had him labelled 'Teflon John' for his resilience in the polls.

Agree with that. And believe me teflon John was because of his slippery, nothings gonna stick to me teehee ; crosby/textor ,conniving talking all around the subject and not answering it honestly or at all. Bill does that now but he is not as good; Steven joyce is now the supremo there.

So what to do about you poor rusted on folks; going to take a lot more than CRC unfortunately; open up your bivalves and be receptive to whats really happening out there; sieve the truth from the chaff and hey presto you will find yourself free of your rusting submerged pile

Major von Tempsky
01-08-2017, 09:31 AM
We'll take the win! :-)

Joshuatree
01-08-2017, 09:34 AM
Bottom feeders:)

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 08:33 AM
eZ will be having perhaps the best week of his life. First Jacinda replaces Little, who had no appeal even to diehard Labour supporters.
Now Turei's latest revelations will swing a good number of votes back to Labour.
He'll be on the turps tonight.

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 08:45 AM
Little ,i hold in the highest regard; putting the party ahead of himself; his honesty and integrity is intact. Put him next to wooden bill who has lost both of those qualities and has never been leadership material, and there is just no contest. If i was nat id dump bill and his "white' tainted deputy and bring in joyce and his choice.

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 08:50 AM
Little ,i hold in the highest regard; putting the party ahead of himself; his honesty and integrity is intact.

Surely you'd deduct a point or two for his porky, about standing down being his decision? Or are you saying Tamati Coffey was telling porkies?

BlackPeter
04-08-2017, 08:54 AM
Little ,i hold in the highest regard; putting the party ahead of himself; his honesty and integrity is intact. Put him next to wooden bill who has lost both of those qualities and has never been leadership material, and there is just no contest. If i was nat id dump bill and his "white' tainted deputy and bring in joyce and his choice.

JT - you are continuously questioning the honesty and integrity of honorable members of parliament without providing any evidence to support. This is nothing but cheap smear. Obviously - your credibility is long gone, but still wondering why you think that your consistent defamation of Bill English might be above the law?

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 09:08 AM
Come on even a blind man can tell when he is walking in the sun. Bill has been too long in the game and as I've said before its a human condition to want to stay in power no matter what; thats where judgement and standards drop unfortunately. All my OPINION based on what I've read/heard over the years. we can do better! its so refreshing to hear Jacinta say no re Winston being PM; a good example of the difference in power at any expense. Rise Up, we need that change.

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 09:33 AM
Come on even a blind man can tell when he is walking in the sun. Bill has been too long in the game and as I've said before its a human condition to want to stay in power no matter what; thats where judgement and standards drop unfortunately. All my OPINION based on what I've read/heard over the years. we can do better! its so refreshing to hear Jacinta say no re Winston being PM; a good example of the difference in power at any expense. Rise Up, we need that change.


The last thing we need is change, certainly no change to what is currently on offer. But I fully concur with your comments re Winston. No room for that clown as PM.

BlackPeter
04-08-2017, 09:41 AM
Come on even a blind man can tell when he is walking in the sun. Bill has been too long in the game and as I've said before its a human condition to want to stay in power no matter what; thats where judgement and standards drop unfortunately. All my OPINION based on what I've read/heard over the years. we can do better! its so refreshing to hear Jacinta say no re Winston being PM; a good example of the difference in power at any expense. Rise Up, we need that change.

So - you are saying that based on your personal experiences you would be in his position dishonest and of low integrity? And for that reason he must be the same as you? Look - I don't doubt that you know more about yourself than anybody else ... but you should not assume that everybody else has such low standards.

Surely you can't do better ... and to be honest - while your baseless smears have some entertainment value - I don't think that you help with them the people you want to support. Most Kiwis are honest and hard working people - just as Bill English is.

Just keep digging.

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 09:46 AM
keep digging; ok what are your connections with the national party?

BlackPeter
04-08-2017, 09:55 AM
keep digging; ok what are your connections with the national party?

No current connection or affiliation with any political party. However - I don't like smears, no matter from which side they come and I don't like the dirt throwers. You are one of them.

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 11:01 AM
Diito. We could both try better:)

BlackPeter
04-08-2017, 11:13 AM
Diito. We could both try better:)

Just another of your smears. When did I ever accuse a politician (or anybody else) of dishonesty or lack of integrity) without having evidence at hand (in case you refer to my comments on the big liar in the US)? You on the other hand are accusing quite regularly honorable people without producing any evidence.

I don't see what we both might have in that regard in common ...

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 11:31 AM
Im certainly not as subtle as you bp, normalising things and making things sound like facts; polished spin. This is what joyce is so good at and he's got a humour to boot.
Looks to me like nats are still coming out of the shock that this is no easy run to victory now.We really have an election battle now and attack is a defensive reaction; attack away BP, defend.

macduffy
04-08-2017, 12:10 PM
Im certainly not as subtle as you bp, normalising things and making things sound like facts; polished spin. This is what joyce is so good at and he's got a humour to boot.
Looks to me like nats are still coming out of the shock that this is no easy run to victory now.We really have an election battle now and attack is a defensive reaction; attack away BP, defend.

Is this thread unravelling?

:ohmy:

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 12:17 PM
I think so; maybe the Title "When National Wins Again" says it all and this thread should be laid to rest.

777
04-08-2017, 12:24 PM
I think so; maybe the Title "When National Wins Again" says it all and this thread should be laid to rest.

The name of the thread has more relevance than the other and was the reason it was started.

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 12:47 PM
Totally false and full of spin. Unless you've got a Tardus and have been 7 weeks into the future this is just more crosby/textor spin. Suggest we scrap this thread and carry on ,on the accurate thread "If National win Again". Credibility on the line posting under this fake; desperate title "When", can't you see that.

BlackPeter
04-08-2017, 01:05 PM
Totally false and full of spin. Unless you've got a Tardus and have been 7 weeks into the future this is just more crosby/textor spin. Suggest we scrap this thread and carry on ,on the accurate thread "If National win Again". Credibility on the line posting under this fake; desperate title "When", can't you see that.

Oh dear ...

I don't think that anybody would need a Tardus to predict that National will win (i.e. get the most votes compared to any other party) again.

The only open questions I can see are:

1) Will National get above 50% and can govern alone? Possible, but currently not likely.
2) Will National be able to form a governing coalition with its current partners ACT, United and Maori party? Quite likely so.
3) Is there a risk that Mana, Green, TOP, Labour and NZF are banding together to form a government? Not likely, but (depending how the dice fall) within the realm of the possible.

Obviously - if it is option three, than National still would have won the most votes (unless Labour doubles on its current polls - yeah right) - i.e. "when" is the more appropriate thread title - though obviously we know the date as well ;).

Only difference - if option three eventuates against the odds, than our country would be on the losing side ... so let's think positive, shall we?

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 03:06 PM
"Our country" another typical example of a frustrated want to be power person.

777
04-08-2017, 03:18 PM
Reminds me of Clark and "our people". And she sure as hell wanted to be in power so she could control everyone.

BlackPeter
04-08-2017, 03:28 PM
"Our country" another typical example of a frustrated want to be power person.

Ah well, if it is not your country, than there are still many other posters around with whom I would share it :p; So - what's wrong with this expression other that you want to be difficult and run out of arguments ages ago?

Reminds me of our 4 year old grand child ... she tends to have phases like that as well ;);

Actually - I should withdraw and apologise - that's not fair to her - she is a very nice, clever and well behaved girl ...

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 03:35 PM
No one asked you to be the self appointed spokesman for all of us, can you understand that? Speak for yourself, say "My country" and you will be on safe ground. Practice that.

BlackPeter
04-08-2017, 04:16 PM
No one asked you to be the self appointed spokesman for all of us, can you understand that? Speak for yourself, say "My country" and you will be on safe ground. Practice that.

Maybe you should have paid a bit more attention in school. Judging based on your posts you missed school when they taught proper spelling, you must have missed as well when they taught the basics of decent behaviour and it appears you missed again when they explained the meaning of possessive pronouns like "our".

If I use the phrase "our country", this does not say that I try to speak for you - I wouldn't dare to do that in my worst nightmares, but it means that it is "my country" as well as "your country" (and as well the country of many other people, most of them nice ...). Based on our discussion do I regret that it is "our country", but unless you happen to live somewhere else than in NZ, it still is.

Got that?

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 06:12 PM
Lecture after lecture no surprises there. Review the way you advise people BP; you can change and grow and unfold for the better; i believe this; its never too late;).

Looking forward to labours next move so far extraordinarily good; we have far more than passive hope ; we have momentum and a fair wind that will wash out the incumbents and the rot that has set in with the complacency and anything to stay there mentality.
Boy , no better example then listening to Coleman being interviewed by John Campbell on National radio tonite re the DHB probs down south. If you are open minded; there will be a podcast on national Radio website. But prepare yourself; its ill humans that have been dumped on the tipface here.

RGR367
04-08-2017, 10:17 PM
It's always better to say "our country" instead of saying "my country" when talking about politicians and/or elections especially if you're intending to participate in it. You can convince a lot more by saying that.

craic
04-08-2017, 10:36 PM
As an Irishman with an Irish Passport and fifty seven years of "Permanent Residence" I prefer this country. My or our have no meaning.

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 10:48 PM
As an Irishman with an Irish Passport and fifty seven years of "Permanent Residence" I prefer this country. My or our have no meaning.

So to you Ireland is that country.

craic
05-08-2017, 06:00 AM
To me that country is any country I am talking about except the country I am in at the time which becomes "this country"

fungus pudding
06-08-2017, 09:12 AM
Sorry eZ. Jacinda just revealed she still is concerned that NZ doesn't tax wealth or assets. Bye bye Labour.

Sgt Pepper
06-08-2017, 07:41 PM
Sorry eZ. Jacinda just revealed she still is concerned that NZ doesn't tax wealth or assets. Bye bye Labour.

'Only the Little People Pay Taxes' The late New York real estate heiress and hotelier Leona Helmsley in 2003.

fungus pudding
06-08-2017, 09:18 PM
[I]
'Only the Little People Pay Taxes'

He's gone now, praise be to Allah.

tim23
07-08-2017, 06:13 PM
Hardly - plenty of countries have capital gains tax - hopeful words shes the next PM!QUOTE=fungus pudding;677097]Sorry eZ. Jacinda just revealed she still is concerned that NZ doesn't tax wealth or assets. Bye bye Labour.[/QUOTE]

Joshuatree
07-08-2017, 06:23 PM
QUOTE=fungus pudding;677097]Sorry eZ. Jacinda just revealed she still is concerned that NZ doesn't tax wealth or assets. Bye bye Labour.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Tim23 Hardly - plenty of countries have capital gains tax - hopeful words shes the next PM!

Correct and right Tim , nothing for the majority of us to fear or worry about.If so it will be clearly explained and peoples homes ring fenced etc. Hell all those national supporters freaking out about all their rental props will still be making a motza but maybe sharing a small part of it for the good of all New Zealanders a win/win /win situ.

fungus pudding
07-08-2017, 06:51 PM
QUOTE=fungus pudding;677097]Sorry eZ. Jacinda just revealed she still is concerned that NZ doesn't tax wealth or assets. Bye bye Labour.[/QUOTE]

Tim23 Hardly - plenty of countries have capital gains tax - hopeful words shes the next PM!

Correct and right Tim , nothing for the majority of us to fear or worry about.If so it will be clearly explained and peoples homes ring fenced etc. Hell all those national supporters freaking out about all their rental props will still be making a motza but maybe sharing a small part of it for the good of all New Zealanders a win/win /win situ.[/QUOTE]

That assumes that CGT will be a higher rate than income tax which is currently applied to those who profit from selling.

artemis
08-08-2017, 05:35 AM
That assumes that CGT will be a higher rate than income tax which is currently applied to those who profit from selling.

Only for sellers who fit the IRD 'trader' definition, or the bright line rule.

The previous Labour CGT included many asset sales apart from residential property, including assets in trusts - shares, farms, commercial property, businesses with a few exemptions. Initially the policy had a lot of voter support, but this turned once people learned more and the policy was abandoned.

fungus pudding
08-08-2017, 06:36 AM
Only for sellers who fit the IRD 'trader' definition, or the bright line rule.

The previous Labour CGT included many asset sales apart from residential property, including assets in trusts - shares, farms, commercial property, businesses with a few exemptions. Initially the policy had a lot of voter support, but this turned once people learned more and the policy was abandoned.

There are lot's of problems designing a CGT scheme. Quite unfair and a handbrake on progress if it doesn't include a repatriation period, and quite useless if it excludes your principal residence; and hopelessly unpopular if it does. Then there's the never ednding argument whetetr or not inflation should be discounted or taxed. NZ system of treating capital gained as income, based on intention, isn't perfect - but it's a damn sight better than a CGT designed to pacify the envious.

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 09:51 AM
"damn sight better than a CGT designed to pacify the envious"

Thats funny and sad at the same time.Something has to be done and they will find it.
FP you have all your money in listed prop shares now so personally not an issue for you i guess if thats the case.

fungus pudding
08-08-2017, 10:05 AM
"damn sight better than a CGT designed to pacify the envious"

Thats funny and sad at the same time.Something has to be done and they will find it.
FP you have all your money in listed prop shares now so personally not an issue for you i guess if thats the case.

Wrong. I have a portion of my money in LPTs but still own commercial real estate directly. I am way beyond caring much about my own tax given my age, but I am concerned that a tax system should never be punitive, and some CGT schemes are. e.g. Australia. Also, the argument never goes away - is it a taxable gain, or is it taxable income?

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 10:22 AM
Thanks for the correction, apologies. You have a far better understanding of these issues then I.

artemis
08-08-2017, 01:29 PM
Thanks for the correction, apologies. You have a far better understanding of these issues then I.

Do you think that a Labour led government should re-introduce its CGT, or a variation of it, and if so what assets should be exempted.

Sgt Pepper
08-08-2017, 07:52 PM
Wrong. I have a portion of my money in LPTs but still own commercial real estate directly. I am way beyond caring much about my own tax given my age, but I am concerned that a tax system should never be punitive, and some CGT schemes are. e.g. Australia. Also, the argument never goes away - is it a taxable gain, or is it taxable income?

its not CGT that I am particularly worried about. I struggle with Destiny Church, Sanitarium. GoBus/Tainui Holdings, Southern Cross etc etc that pay no tax, as they are "charities". For all my working life I have always donated my after tax income to paying bills, providing for my family, and saving for retirement. No tax free status for me

tim23
09-08-2017, 05:11 PM
Seen the Newshub poll - curtains looming for the Tories?

tim23
09-08-2017, 08:29 PM
Gee - I can hear a pin drop...

fungus pudding
09-08-2017, 08:58 PM
Seen the Newshub poll - curtains looming for the Tories?

That will be up to Winston, and he'll go with the party he can bully most and extract the biggest and brightest baubles. So yes - it's looking very much like Labour are in with a very good chance as long as they don't drop back into the 20s.

whome
10-08-2017, 07:48 AM
Right on, Sgt Pepper. Add to that list the Brethren, who run businesses all around NZ under the 'charities' banner, and pay no tax. These righteous leave it to the rest of NZers to pay their share of the countries infrastructure, road maintenance etc. and we are talking many many millions.

fungus pudding
10-08-2017, 08:20 AM
Right on, Sgt Pepper. Add to that list the Brethren, who run businesses all around NZ under the 'charities' banner, and pay no tax. These righteous leave it to the rest of NZers to pay their share of the countries infrastructure, road maintenance etc. and we are talking many many millions.

Few would disagree. Nothing will ever be done about it.

Joshuatree
10-08-2017, 09:02 PM
Do you think that a Labour led government should re-introduce its CGT, or a variation of it, and if so what assets should be exempted.

Yes a variation of some sort ,not something the stops capitalists in their tracks but i will await to see what is brought to the table. Unfortunately last time the idea was brought up it was very poorly explained and the nats, crosby/textor ,hoskings etc all managed to freak folks out with the TAX word ;as they went and bought/built another and another house etc and paid no tax on their gains.

fungus pudding
11-08-2017, 12:04 AM
Yes a variation of some sort ,not something the stops capitalists in their tracks but i will await to see what is brought to the table. Unfortunately last time the idea was brought up it was very poorly explained and the nats, crosby/textor ,hoskings etc all managed to freak folks out with the TAX word ;as they went and bought/built another and another house etc and paid no tax on their gains.

No, because if they buy/build aniother and another etc, tax applies when they sell. Not when they buy.

artemis
11-08-2017, 03:51 AM
Yes a variation of some sort ,not something the stops capitalists in their tracks but i will await to see what is brought to the table. Unfortunately last time the idea was brought up it was very poorly explained and the nats, crosby/textor ,hoskings etc all managed to freak folks out with the TAX word ;as they went and bought/built another and another house etc and paid no tax on their gains.

Labour's CGT policy was indeed poorly communicated. And one of the main reasons for that was it kept changing as people raised issues and concerns. Can't recall exact details now, but baches were included, then they were not. Assets in trusts - unclear then included I think.

I guess it is not realistic for an opposition party to have a fully fledged policy in such a complex area, but Labour underestimated the impact on ordinary voters. Not just the wealthy. There are estimated to be over half a mil trusts in NZ. Taking settlors and beneficiaries into account, that is a lot of people seeing their hard won assets taxed.

fungus pudding
22-09-2017, 08:43 AM
Four in a row coming up. Can National win a fifth term?

Joshuatree
22-09-2017, 08:55 AM
Labour's CGT policy was indeed poorly communicated. And one of the main reasons for that was it kept changing as people raised issues and concerns. Can't recall exact details now, but baches were included, then they were not. Assets in trusts - unclear then included I think.

I guess it is not realistic for an opposition party to have a fully fledged policy in such a complex area, but Labour underestimated the impact on ordinary voters. Not just the wealthy. There are estimated to be over half a mil trusts in NZ. Taking settlors and beneficiaries into account, that is a lot of people seeing their hard won assets taxed.

Good points. And i agree with your first sentence particularly. Far more sensible to get the best advice from the most specialised experts and come up with a robust plan covering all loopholes and complexities.

But Jacinda is a newbie and it takes time and action to fully trust someone. Combined with the UNPRECEDENTED smearing and lying and fear mongering ever in our political history by national the choice is stark, values over Deceit imo.

minimoke
22-09-2017, 09:00 AM
Good points. And i agree with your first sentence particularly. Far more sensible to get the best advice from the most specialised experts and come up with a robust plan covering all loopholes and complexities.

.
Even more sensible to do it while you are in Opposition with not much to do. An ideal time to get all the expert advice you want and come up with a rock solid policy by election time.

Labour couldn't even organise that!

Joshuatree
22-09-2017, 09:03 AM
And then, the big question --- what if he loses?


"There has been a quiet debate going on among MPs about this possibility as the campaign has unfolded.
As much as there is a consensus audible to outside ears, it would appear that any thought of a Bennett-Joyce leadership has lost support.
Amy Adams and Simon Bridges would seem a more likely combination but rapidly coming down the straight is Education Minister, Nikki Kaye, who produced the one genuinely innovative bit of policy during National's campaign with her proposal to make a foreign language compulsory in primary schools.
And of course, there is Judith Collins who has been able to demonstrate through the Marsden Point fuel crisis what is often forgotten about her; that she is a highly competent Minister."

So if/when bill loses the election,joyce and bennett are out of leadership contention too by the looks, the nats have already planned for this.Why?
Because this triad of 3 have lied on camera to the whole of NZ, the national party know the damage this has caused and that credibility will take a long time to rebuild imo.

fungus pudding
22-09-2017, 09:07 AM
Even more sensible to do it while you are in Opposition with not much to do. An ideal time to get all the expert advice you want and come up with a rock solid policy by election time.

Labour couldn't even organise that!

That's because the riff-raff who make up the rest of the party were firmly behind their last leader who had rejected CGT; the same riff-raff haven't had time to absorb Taxcinda's captains calls yet and stand firmly behind them.

Adam H
22-09-2017, 09:08 AM
Even more sensible to do it while you are in Opposition with not much to do. An ideal time to get all the expert advice you want and come up with a rock solid policy by election time.

Labour couldn't even organise that!

I don't think i would support opposition parties paying lots of money to working groups on the chance that they get in, that would be a lot of tax payer money that would potentially do nothing.

I will admit though that Labours tax plans are a bit unfortunate, i don't disagree with what they are doing, as they are at least being transparent with their intentions. They are, however, asking for a vote based on trust rather than one based on policy.

Having said that National made a lot of new taxes in their last 3 terms that were not announced prior to elections, so i guess all parties are asking for a vote based on trust.

minimoke
22-09-2017, 09:51 AM
That's because the riff-raff who make up the rest of the party were firmly behind their last leader who had rejected CGT; .
Ummmm - which last Leader was that?

fungus pudding
22-09-2017, 09:52 AM
Ummmm - which last Leader was that?

The last last one.

minimoke
22-09-2017, 09:58 AM
The last last one.
Thanks - there have been so many I am a bit confused.

westerly
22-09-2017, 10:07 AM
Thanks - there have been so many I am a bit confused.

You have started so many threads with the object of giving the right leaning posters multiple chances of sniping at the more truthful left, it is no wonder you are totally confused. :)

westerly

minimoke
22-09-2017, 10:11 AM
You have started so many threads with the object of giving the right leaning posters multiple chances of sniping at the more truthful left, it is no wonder you are totally confused. :)

westerlyIf left leaning posters dont have the gumption to start their own thread topics, I cant see how that is my problem.

But I bet they wont - because it gives an opportunity to expose the weakness of their arguments - rather than them buried in these mega page threads.

Joshuatree
22-09-2017, 10:52 AM
Honesty, truth and values against lies spin, fear mongering. One needs to look at their own moral compass here.
Even a blind man can tell when he is walking in the sun.

blackcap
22-09-2017, 11:04 AM
Honesty, truth and values against lies spin, fear mongering. One needs to look at their own moral compass here.
Even a blind man can tell when he is walking in the sun.

Sorry JT, it looks like its 3 more years for your team. Market swinging decidedly National's way.

Joshuatree
22-09-2017, 12:05 PM
Ok you've seen the future, tell mea few racing winners too and the price of butter on saturday night, thanks;)

fungus pudding
22-09-2017, 01:30 PM
Ok you've seen the future, tell mea few racing winners too and the price of butter on saturday night, thanks;)

Saturday night winners will be National and Act. Butter will be around $5 to $6 in supermarkets, and $7 plus in dairies.

Joshuatree
22-09-2017, 01:38 PM
Export price for butter(its booming atm because its suddenly healthy:).
We will wait and see what happens as no one knows. Hope is a wasted thought imo, action isn't.

fungus pudding
22-09-2017, 01:52 PM
Export price for butter(its booming atm because its suddenly healthy:).
We will wait and see what happens as no one knows. Hope is a wasted thought imo, action isn't.

You said you wanted to know. Be grateful.

Joshuatree
22-09-2017, 02:11 PM
I am grateful for what i am about to receive:t_up:

Joshuatree
22-09-2017, 03:10 PM
WHAT POVERTY IN NZ?

Some parents even report taking sleeping medications (http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/handle/10289/5458) when the children are away on weekends so as not to risk eating precious food resources.
Growing numbers of New Zealanders frequently have no choice but to rely on the charity of others to eat [PDF (http://www.cpag.org.nz/assets/Publications/HTS.pdf)]. Charitable food provisions such as foodbanks typically offer limited food choices to people in need. The commonly accepted proviso is that beggars can’t be choosers. Lea survives thanks to a local charitable meal (pictured below). She walks 45 minutes (each way) to access what is often her only ‘proper’ meal each day. The community meal offers more than just food. It provides an inclusive community space for otherwise excluded people. The creation of a welcoming space provides the opportunity for people such as Lea to engage in positive social interaction over a hot, filling meal. Humanising spaces such as the meal help to alleviate the social isolation experienced (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10875540902841762) by low-income families alongside hunger and food insecurity.
No, poor NZ families don’t just need to make ‘better choices’ (https://thespinoff.co.nz/parenting/20-09-2017/no-poor-nz-families-dont-just-need-to-make-better-choices/)

minimoke
22-09-2017, 03:27 PM
WHAT POVERTY IN NZ?

Some parents even report taking sleeping medications (http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/handle/10289/5458) when the children are away on weekends so as not to risk eating precious food resources. More lies. Respondents were talking about their personal sleep strategies for fending off their own hunger. They can afford sleeping medication but not food. Go figure. And what about this "Or I’ll sleep until payday." Wouldn't the respondent be better going to work and getting paid more?

Joshuatree
22-09-2017, 03:32 PM
Exactly saving the food for the children not eating it themselves

Have you seen this NZ movie yet; hey you might be in it. The degradation caused by intensification in canterbury etc; terrible, a must see.
Seven Rivers Walking – Haere Mārire (https://www.rialtotauranga.co.nz/movie/seven-rivers-walking-haere-mrire)

Investor
22-09-2017, 03:33 PM
WHAT POVERTY IN NZ?

Some parents even report taking sleeping medications (http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/handle/10289/5458) when the children are away on weekends so as not to risk eating precious food resources.
Growing numbers of New Zealanders frequently have no choice but to rely on the charity of others to eat [PDF (http://www.cpag.org.nz/assets/Publications/HTS.pdf)]. Charitable food provisions such as foodbanks typically offer limited food choices to people in need. The commonly accepted proviso is that beggars can’t be choosers. Lea survives thanks to a local charitable meal (pictured below). She walks 45 minutes (each way) to access what is often her only ‘proper’ meal each day. The community meal offers more than just food. It provides an inclusive community space for otherwise excluded people. The creation of a welcoming space provides the opportunity for people such as Lea to engage in positive social interaction over a hot, filling meal. Humanising spaces such as the meal help to alleviate the social isolation experienced (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10875540902841762) by low-income families alongside hunger and food insecurity.
No, poor NZ families don’t just need to make ‘better choices’ (https://thespinoff.co.nz/parenting/20-09-2017/no-poor-nz-families-dont-just-need-to-make-better-choices/)

You can quite easily eat healthy food at a low cost, the problem is nobody has the endurance to do so. There are plenty of rice/pasta based meals including vegetables that you can make for dirt cheap. It just doesn't taste as good as the junk people are eating. If people were willing to make 'better choices', there is certainly money to be saved. People like yourself prefer to throw more money at problems with 'band-aid' fixes rather than realising not all of the population is capable of acting efficiently.

minimoke
22-09-2017, 03:38 PM
Exactly saving the food for the children not eating it themselves I'll call you out again. There is no reference in that paper to people using sleep to save food for the children. Stop making stuff up.


Have you seen this NZ movie yet; hey you might be in it. The degradation caused by intensification in canterbury etc; terrible, a must see.
Seven Rivers Walking – Haere Mārire (https://www.rialtotauranga.co.nz/movie/seven-rivers-walking-haere-mrire) If taking medication to sleep to save the food for the children is a measure of your fact based arguments then I'm not going to waste my time. Are all your other arguments founded of fantasy?

huxley
22-09-2017, 03:39 PM
You can quite easily eat healthy food at a low cost, the problem is nobody has the endurance to do so. There are plenty of rice/pasta based meals including vegetables that you can make for dirt cheap. It just doesn't taste as good as the junk people are eating. If people were willing to make 'better choices', there is certainly money to be saved. People like yourself prefer to throw more money at problems with 'band-aid' fixes rather than realising not all of the population is capable of acting efficiently.


"In America, first you get the sugar...then you get the power...then you get the women."

Homer simpson

couta1
22-09-2017, 03:41 PM
I've got a good supply of sleeping tablets and antidepressants on hand in case we get a change of Govt, it's called my emergency supply kit.

Joshuatree
22-09-2017, 03:43 PM
Heres a good drinking game for all of us:D

The epic Spinoff election night drinking game (https://thespinoff.co.nz/tv/22-09-2017/the-epic-spinoff-election-night-drinking-game/)

Joshuatree
22-09-2017, 03:45 PM
"Some parents even report taking sleeping medications (http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/handle/10289/5458)when the children are away on weekends so as not to risk eating precious food resources." there you go.

fungus pudding
22-09-2017, 03:52 PM
"Some parents even report taking sleeping medications (http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/handle/10289/5458)when the children are away on weekends so as not to risk eating precious food resources." there you go.

At a guess I'd say a lot of that sleeping medication comes in a bottle.

minimoke
22-09-2017, 03:52 PM
You can quite easily eat healthy food at a low cost, the problem is nobody has the endurance to do so. There are plenty of rice/pasta based meals including vegetables that you can make for dirt cheap. It just doesn't taste as good as the junk people are eating. If people were willing to make 'better choices', there is certainly money to be saved. People like yourself prefer to throw more money at problems with 'band-aid' fixes rather than realising not all of the population is capable of acting efficiently.
We shouldn't need to tell JT this but:
750gm rolled oats $2.00 There is 25 breakfasts sorted
600gn loaf of wheatmeal bread $1, 9 servings and you are on your way with lunch.
5kg Brown Rice $10 for 40 servings. $1.89 for 1.5 kg carrots and $2.49 for an extravagant head of broccoli. and you have the base of dinner.
Wash it down with milk $1,70 a litre.

$20 for Healtheries "Great Nights Sleep" tablets.

minimoke
22-09-2017, 03:54 PM
"Some parents even report taking sleeping medications (http://researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/handle/10289/5458)when the children are away on weekends so as not to risk eating precious food resources." there you go.
So you dont read what you cite? Just make stuff up on the fly.

minimoke
22-09-2017, 03:57 PM
Heres a good drinking game for all of us:D

The epic Spinoff election night drinking game (https://thespinoff.co.nz/tv/22-09-2017/the-epic-spinoff-election-night-drinking-game/)
I'll be back to Chateau Cardboard after Jacinda takes my $1,000 off me

Joshuatree
22-09-2017, 04:01 PM
The truth is - for Bill English - the truth on tax doesn't matter anymore.
Patrick Gower: National playing 'post-truth politics' | Newshub (https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&ved=0ahUKEwjk_ajdgLjWAhVKfrwKHRokD584ChAWCCkwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newshub.co.nz%2Fhome%2Felecti on%2F2017%2F09%2Fpatrick-gower-national-playing-post-truth-politics.html&usg=AFQjCNEksZ7posChmmy3_P-P-s4xIPh-sw)

;;;Like the boy who cried wolf and it was a beagle. Can never be believed again;;;