AIR - Air NZ.

[whome]

TA chart for AIR shows a steady sp decline trend since mid Jul’17, with the potential for engine problems to have added a much higher risk if the situation had not been addressed promptly and properly. Probably was prudent to sell then. We now have a ray of hope with an upturn in sp above 100 MA. Assessment is so easy in hindsight. So Ratkin, what does your crystal ball tell you for the future AIR sp? Noted is the present senior management sell-off of shares, a repeat performance of a year ago, not a good look for a company that appears to have good prospects for the next 2 - 3 years.

[sb9]

Last day today to buy in if you wanna collect that juicy divvy, goes ex-div tomorrow and money in the bank a/c by end of next week, pretty cool aye...engine issues or no engine issues, business as usual.

[Raz]

My snout is currently jammed firmly in a certain Milk Pail, so extreme divvy hunting is on the back-burner this year.

Why wait for the dividend unless you really need the ICs..collected the equivalent dividend via the capital gain (and more) a while back, 28 cent gain in a matter of days...

[winner69]

Why wait for the dividend unless you really need the ICs..collected the equivalent dividend via the capital gain (and more) a while back, 28 cent gain in a matter of days...



Just like Dave Morgan ....he didn’t bother wait for his divie on his million bucks worth either

Took the money and ran

[Beagle]

You know the strange thing though...I have this vague recollection that a couple of bright blokes collected their dividend on HLG a while back and selling in the mid $3 range in December 2017 before it went ex the whopping December dividend. Wonder how it worked out for them that time...

[winner69]

Cool ad from Air NZ

https://twitter.com/flyairnz/status/971430285828149248

.......but I wonder if they truely ‘get it’

[iceman]

Last day today to buy in if you wanna collect that juicy divvy, goes ex-div tomorrow and money in the bank a/c by end of next week, pretty cool aye...engine issues or no engine issues, business as usual.

About to board my first Dreamliner long haul flight since the engine issue came up. Will be watching the engine to see how it appears down in the Antarctic. Will buy more AIR on Monday if we make it 😓

[carrom74]

$3.30 now...looks like the stock in a hurry to cross previous days close...Thank goodness,I did not sell yesterday.

[couta1]

$3.30 now...looks like the stock in a hurry to cross previous days close...Thank goodness,I did not sell yesterday. The perfect divvy strip for some hounds, collect double the diivy on the Ex day, you don't see that too often.

[RTM]

About to board my first Dreamliner long haul flight since the engine issue came up. Will be watching the engine to see how it appears down in the Antarctic. Will buy more AIR on Monday if we make it ��

They will be a lot cheaper if you don't !

[freddagg]

They will be a lot cheaper if you don't !

Excellent. Made my day.

[Raz]

You know the strange thing though...I have this vague recollection that a couple of bright blokes collected their dividend on HLG a while back and selling in the mid $3 range in December 2017 before it went ex the whopping December dividend. Wonder how it worked out for them that time...

That was with a company with ramped up prospects...

[Raz]

The perfect divvy strip for some hounds, collect double the diivy on the Ex day, you don't see that too often.

Agreed, that is unusual...

[steveb]

Talking of divvies any one know what or how the govt treats the imputation credits on their share of the dividend?

[777]

Talking of divvies any one know what or how the govt treats the imputation credits on their share of the dividend?

Money in and money out would describe the government accounting system.

Do you think they actually file a tax return?

[Xerof]

Grant will fold it into a paper dart and throw it out of the beehive window.

They simply come off AIR's credits, and are lost to the gummit

[Beagle]

That was with a company with ramped up prospects...
Not really mate. That company is smashing the ball out of the park of their own accord. Some on here merely pointed that out and those that listened have done very handsomely indeed.

Agreed, that is unusual...
May I suggest you do some homework on the empirical evidence surrounding dividend stripping.
Most times the shares recover the dividend within a few weeks, sometimes within a day :)

[Raz]

Not really mate. That company is smashing the ball out of the park of their own accord. Some on here merely pointed that out and those that listened have done very handsomely indeed.

May I suggest you do some homework on the empirical evidence surrounding dividend stripping.
Most times the shares recover the dividend within a few weeks, sometimes within a day :)

I'm aware of the research, that data set an't the NZX, unusual in a day...over time perhaps is the conclusion I have seen..

on HLG yes they are doing well..debatable if the share price will go where this forum has suggested based on those results and longer term have they maintained it before.....so I see it as a ramp, perhaps not the best use of words above , it is a company with a more favourable trend in underlying earnings than AIR currently... was the difference :-)

[Beagle]

Fair enough.

[Beagle]

The perfect divvy strip for some hounds, collect double the diivy on the Ex day, you don't see that too often.


Agreed, that is unusual...

Agreed it is quite unusual for a share to recover its dividend on the same day after going ex. Happening twice on the same day with SUM other share must be a once in a blue moon event or is this simply a case of its hard to keep SUM good companies down :)

Anyway getting back to the company I see in a behind the paywall article on NBR yesterday that AIR are cancelling all future flights to the Kapiti coast with effect from very early in April 2018. The Mayor has worked himself up into a real lather over this due to the unfortunate timing of AIR running a promotional event at the local airport very recently. AIR citing overall growth in its regional network of 4-5% this year and apparently need the pilots and planes elsewhere where the real demand growth exists.

My view: A perfectly understandable commercial decision. How long does it really take for Kapiti coast residents to drive to Wellington and catch a flight ? Probably less than the amount of time it takes the average Auckland resident to get to the Auckland airport. I think they need to harden up a bit. Come and try commuting on Auckland roads for a week and then they'd see they've got nothing to complain about ! P.S. I couldn't resist and went into wises maps to see the distance from Kapiti coast to Wellington airport. Its 61 km's and an estimated travelling time of 59 minutes. You be the judge if that's a hardship or not.

[RGR367]

.................

My view: A perfectly understandable commercial decision. How long does it really take for Kapiti coast residents to drive to Wellington and catch a flight ? Probably less than the amount of time it takes the average Auckland resident to get to the Auckland airport. I think they need to harden up a bit. Come and try commuting on Auckland roads for a week and then they'd see they've got nothing to complain about ! P.S. I couldn't resist and went into wises maps to see the distance from Kapiti coast to Wellington airport. Its 61 km's and an estimated travelling time of 59 minutes. You be the judge if that's a hardship or not.

I share your view too Beagle re Air's decision on Kapiti coast. But also understand that for Wellingtonians and folks living just outside the Region, a 20 min ride is already a long ride :)

[Leftfield]

I share your view too Beagle re Air's decision on Kapiti coast. But also understand that for Wellingtonians and folks living just outside the Region, a 20 min ride is already a long ride :)

The 20 min ride you cite is more like 45 mins in practical reality and at least 1 hour to 1.5 hrs at peak times...... however this may shorten by perhaps 15 mins after Transmission Gully is completed in 2020.

That said, I'm happy with AIRs decision. Small airlines may fill the gap. Disc; not holding AIR.

[Beagle]

The 20 min ride you cite is more like 45 mins in practical reality and at least 1 hour to 1.5 hrs at peak times...... however this may shorten by perhaps 15 mins after Transmission Gully is completed in 2020.

That said, I'm happy with AIRs decision. Small airlines may fill the gap. Disc; not holding AIR.

AIR have said they are more than happy to share historical passanger load data with any other airline interested in taking over the service. Seems more than fair and reasonable to me.

[Antipodean]

According to google maps, the equivalent journey time of Kapiti Coast Airport to Wellington Airport (57min) is Te Ohaki just north of Huntly to Auckland Airport (57min).

I know the former is ludicrously optimistic (unless driving at midnight), no idea about the latter. I wouldn't be using either of these times as accurate guidelines if I had to catch a flight or for a commute.

[iceman]

Some suggestions from within the industry that cancellation of Kapiti flights and some recent delays and cancellations are due to difficulty for AIR (other airlines in similar situation) to man their current rosters with pilots.
This pilot shortage is a worldwide issue so not surprising but this may well be a drag on AIR's growth plans.

[percy]

About to board my first Dreamliner long haul flight since the engine issue came up. Will be watching the engine to see how it appears down in the Antarctic. Will buy more AIR on Monday if we make it ��

I dared not comment at the time,but seeing you are still posting, I am pleased you got home safely.!

[QOH]

According to google maps, the equivalent journey time of Kapiti Coast Airport to Wellington Airport (57min) is Te Ohaki just north of Huntly to Auckland Airport (57min).

I know the former is ludicrously optimistic (unless driving at midnight), no idea about the latter. I wouldn't be using either of these times as accurate guidelines if I had to catch a flight or for a commute.

Living on Kapiti Coast, Id allow a minimum of 90-120 mins to get to Wellington Airport. Its getting worse all tge time. People here are really upset about losing the Akld flights, we suspect the airport will soon be carved up for housing.

[iceman]

I dared not comment at the time,but seeing you are still posting, I am pleased you got home safely.!

It is great to see that AIR and RR have successfully managed their way through the engine problems and are bringing the Dreamliners back into full schedule. It has removed what was potentially a very serious problem for AIR. Well done AIR.

[Beagle]

Nice to see you back safely mate. You buying at this level ? Disc: Holding and I sense the current price ~ $3.30 is about fair value.

[iceman]

Nice to see you back safely mate. You buying at this level ? Disc: Holding and I sense the current price ~ $3.30 is about fair value.

No I'm not buying Beagle, last purchase was about 3 weeks ago. Was hoping it would drop a bit when it went XD to accumulate a few more but not to be. Will patiently wait to take advantage of any drops in SP but you I feel it is fairly and fully priced at the moment. The business seems to be humming along nicely with the latest addition being 5 flights pw directly to Taipei.

[Beagle]

Yeap It was great buying at $3.05 cum an 11 cps fully imputed divvy on the day of the announcement just three weeks ago especially with confirmation of the RR issue being significantly de-risked. Including the divvy, up 13% in 3 weeks isn't too shabby is it mate :)

[winner69]

Good?


Air NZ are converting 3 more A320neo orders to A321neo's - now have 7 x A321neo's and 3 x A320neo's on order.

[Beagle]

Good?


Air NZ are converting 3 more A320neo orders to A321neo's - now have 7 x A321neo's and 3 x A320neo's on order.

Yes 27% more seating capacity apparently.

[sb9]

Yes 27% more seating capacity apparently.

Wow $3.35 now, who would've thought it'll recover the full divvy amount so quickly plus few cents gain on top of that.

[Beagle]

Wow $3.35 now, who would've thought it'll recover the full divvy amount so quickly plus few cents gain on top of that.

Is a little surprising as in the last couple of years its been fairly slow to recover the dividend, (often many weeks) especially the time when there was the big special divvy.
Anyone who topped up in the mid-late 320's last week cum the 11 cent fully imputed dividend can give themselves a pat on the back.

[sb9]

Is a little surprising as in the last couple of years its been fairly slow to recover the dividend, (often many weeks) especially the time when there was the big special divvy.
Anyone who topped up in the mid-late 320's last week cum the 11 cent fully imputed dividend can give themselves a pat on the back.

Happy times, divvy amount just hit the bank a/c....time to celebrate with a nice drink after work :)

[Beagle]

You got to love the way they pay their divvy out so quickly :cool:

[Beagle]

So here it is, their new safety video https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=world+coolest+safety+video&view=detail&mid=45764ECDAAA24B06D02E45764ECDAAA24B06D02E&FORM=VIR

I dunno, I have my reservations about this one. Maybe given obvious sensitivities still held by all the relatives and friends of the Erebus tragedy they should have let sleeping dog's lie and simply filmed this in stunning Fiordland and shown off some of the spectacular national park that people can visit and still have made the environmental comments effectively ?

[janner]

Beg to differ on this one Beagle..

Are you saying that all airlines should abandon routes they have lost passengers on ??

Or at the very least, any mention of them..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_died_climbing_Mount_Everest

[Benny1]

So here it is, their new safety video https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=world+coolest+safety+video&view=detail&mid=45764ECDAAA24B06D02E45764ECDAAA24B06D02E&FORM=VIR

I dunno, I have my reservations about this one. Maybe given obvious sensitivities still held by all the relatives and friends of the Erebus tragedy they should have let sleeping dog's lie and simply filmed this in stunning Fiordland and shown off some of the spectacular national park that people can visit and still have made the environmental comments effectively ?

Expect more environmental stuff coming out in the future too.... Remember the amount of fuel they have already saved with their fleet of highly expensive electric vehicles...

[Beagle]

Beg to differ on this one Beagle..

Are you saying that all airlines should abandon routes they have lost passengers on ??

Or at the very least, any mention of them..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_died_climbing_Mount_Everest

Far less expense to make a fabulous video showcasing our spectacular Fiordland, (a place passengers on AIR's services can easily access through travel connections at Queenstown). Three obvious benefits.
It actually promotes a destination in N.Z. not part of the world very few people will ever access in Antarctica.
Significantly lower costs through vastly easier logistics.
You don't trample on the sensitive feelings thousands of relatives and friends have about what happened at Erebus.
Who can forget Justice Mahon's haunting summary "An orchestrated litany of lies"
Summing up, some things are best consigned to the annuals of history and its best not to stir things up.


Expect more environmental stuff coming out in the future too.... Remember the amount of fuel they have already saved with their fleet of highly expensive electric vehicles...

70,000 liters of fuel, less than what's required to fill one Dreamliner once for one long distance flight. "Awesome" isn't it !

I think a certain someone is getting a little carried away with himself in his environmental crusade and stepping on more than a few toes in the process.

[winner69]

70,000 liters of fuel, less than what's required to fill one Dreamliner once for one long distance flight. "Awesome" isn't it !

I think a certain someone is getting a little carried away with himself in his environmental crusade and stepping on more than a few toes in the process.

I suppose AIRs greenwashing gives a few the warm fuzzies but the majority won’t be fooled.

[value_investor]

I suppose AIRs greenwashing gives a few the warm fuzzies but the majority won’t be fooled.

I really think that the greenwashing going in general will ramp up with our friends in power now which is laughable considering what industry we are talking about here.

[janner]

Far less expense to make a fabulous video showcasing our spectacular Fiordland, (a place passengers on AIR's services can easily access through travel connections at Queenstown). Three obvious benefits.
It actually promotes a destination in N.Z. not part of the world very few people will ever access in Antarctica.
Significantly lower costs through vastly easier logistics.
You don't trample on the sensitive feelings thousands of relatives and friends have about what happened at Erebus.
Who can forget Justice Mahon's haunting summary "An orchestrated litany of lies"
Summing up, some things are best consigned to the annuals of history and its best not to stir things up..

You missed my point. It is not about where or how much the advert cost.. It is about why should AIR not use the Antarctic as a back drop..
Airlines do not leave routes because they have had an accident.. Yes I agree it does have sensitive feelings for some.
However there were 554 road deaths that year, more than double the number at Erebus..
" very few people will ever access in Antarctica. "
There are more than 8 Luxury Cruise Ships servicing Antarctic as well as flights from Aussie. You would be surprised at how many people, are working or visiting in that area. My own experience Summer Season 1957 - 1958 With the Fuchs group..

Could this advert be just a toe testing the water for a return to the lucrative route. Visit NZ and Antarctica !!!!!

[Beagle]

Have to agree to disagree on this one janner. Whilst you make a valid point about the modest number of people visiting Antarctica consider that of the millions of people that visit N.Z. perhaps something like one million visit Fiordland or at least well over one million could easily access it from their trip to Queenstown.
This number could be expanded considerably, (i.e. there is a valid present and real reason to promote Fiordland) and as such this represents a commercial promotion not just a lot of environmental greenwashing and they're not stepping on thousands of people's toes doing it.

Riding snowmobiles for fun and burning hydrocarbons in Antarctica isn't a good look in that video, sort of scoring an own goal on the environmental message in my opinion.

Chris Luxon needs a serious reality check. Fact AIR's estimated fuel consumption off their latest fuel hedge disclosure for 1H FY19 is 4,800,000 barrels of fuel. If that continues to 2H FY19 they will burn 1,526,400,000 liters of jet fuel in FY19. (No that figure is not a typo, over 1.5 billion liters of jet fuel !).
No amount of greenwashing can disguise the fact that all airlines are HUGE polluters.
AIR should stick to messaging that they have a young relatively fuel efficient fleet, that makes FAR more difference than anything else they can or will do.

As for resuming flights over Antarctica...you must be kidding surely ! I don't think the N.Z. public would ever have the stomach for that.
P.S. The number of people that died climbing Everest or who died on the roads that year is completely irrelevant.

Just let sleeping wolves lie otherwise AIR will get bitten.

[Benny1]

Yep have to agree with you Mr B on that one... They should stay well away... I am reasonably confident that they will..
Think there are plenty other places in the pipeline before Antarctica gets a look in...
Hmmm.. Not long now until Obama is in town...

[Beagle]

Now at cruising altitude, and after shedding an 11 cent divvy not expecting much for a while from this bird. Sound long term hold for divvy income though.

[winner69]

Jeez beagle did you say AIR use 1.5 billion litres of fuel a year .....that’s a heck a lot of emissions eh

....but then they apparently don’t use 70,000 litres of fuel by having these electric vehicles

What I have just learned is that most of the EVs are expensive BMWs used by the sales force....all 36 of them

Good thing though is the Beamers contain the the same carbon fibre as in Dreamliners ...that’s pretty cool ...for an ego trip

[Beagle]

Yes 1.5 - 1.6 billion liters burned in the upper atmosphere where they do most damage to the Ozone layer is a LOT isn't it ! Some people at AIR on a guilt trip ?
Add back in the CO2 emissions used making that fancy carbon fiber for those EV's and the batteries therein, the coal burned to make the electricity seeing as the grid has been running at close to its maximum capabilities at times for those electric vehicles, the thousands of liters of fuel to transport people to the Antarctic not to forget a few hundred liters more fuel so they can play on the snow in their snowmobiles and they're like a cat chasing its own tail with their environmental claims aren't they ?

At least they're running a fleet of relatively modern fuel efficient planes...that probably does save something meaningful, maybe 6% or about 100 million liters and without all the creative environmental stuff either...

Might have to fly Jetheap to the SUM annual meeting this year...not sure I can stand to watch that video twice in one day and according to Bob Jones they get a bit upset when you don't pay attention to the "safety" video :ohmy:

[winner69]

Must be good sales reps if they get big beamers to joy around in. Are they sign written?

Don’t know what AIR sales rep actually does but a Suzuki Swift sounds good enough.

But if it’s about turning up at AIR sponsored events maybe a Beamer is the thing.

Does seem an extravagance though.

[winner69]

Suppose this job comes with a Beamer

https://jobs.airnewzealand.co.nz/jobdetails?ajid=5PUol

Love this bit in the ad

Whāia te pae tawhiti kia tata.

Ko te pae tata whakamaua, kia tina.

[Beagle]

https://jobs.airnewzealand.co.nz/jobdetails?ajid=Jmuol

This one more up the hounds alley of expertise...shame its not a permanent position.

[BlackPeter]

https://jobs.airnewzealand.co.nz/jobdetails?ajid=Jmuol

This one more up the hounds alley of expertise...shame its not a permanent position.

Though I am not sure the underwriting slogan

Whāia te pae tawhiti kia tata.
Ko te pae tata whakamaua, kia tina.

is a good fit for bean counters ;) Too much big picture stuff ... but who knows - maybe they need some creative accounting :p?

[winner69]

https://jobs.airnewzealand.co.nz/jobdetails?ajid=Jmuol

This one more up the hounds alley of expertise...shame its not a permanent position.

That sounds so boring mate

Why settle on less than you are capable off .....this role is up your alley ......you already doing it for them .....just refer them to some posts here ....ang get $200k plus a year for doing it

Better brush up (or start learning) on your Maori Te Reo ...they seem pretty keen on that


Whāia te pae tawhiti kia tata.

Ko te pae tata whakamaua, kia tina.

[Beagle]

Too hard to teach an old dog new tricks mate, like your idea about referring them to my posts on here for $200K per annum though :)

[winner69]

Too hard to teach an old dog new tricks mate, like your idea about referring them to my posts on here for $200K per annum though :)

The new tricks bit ...is that Maori Te Reo

[Beagle]

The new tricks bit ...is that Maori Te Reo

LOL how'd you guess.

[barleeni]

Have to agree to disagree on this one janner. Whilst you make a valid point about the modest number of people visiting Antarctica consider that of the millions of people that visit N.Z. perhaps something like one million visit Fiordland or at least well over one million could easily access it from their trip to Queenstown.
This number could be expanded considerably, (i.e. there is a valid present and real reason to promote Fiordland) and as such this represents a commercial promotion not just a lot of environmental greenwashing and they're not stepping on thousands of people's toes doing it.

Riding snowmobiles for fun and burning hydrocarbons in Antarctica isn't a good look in that video, sort of scoring an own goal on the environmental message in my opinion.

Chris Luxon needs a serious reality check. Fact AIR's estimated fuel consumption off their latest fuel hedge disclosure for 1H FY19 is 4,800,000 barrels of fuel. If that continues to 2H FY19 they will burn 1,526,400,000 liters of jet fuel in FY19. (No that figure is not a typo, over 1.5 billion liters of jet fuel !).
No amount of greenwashing can disguise the fact that all airlines are HUGE polluters.
AIR should stick to messaging that they have a young relatively fuel efficient fleet, that makes FAR more difference than anything else they can or will do.

As for resuming flights over Antarctica...you must be kidding surely ! I don't think the N.Z. public would ever have the stomach for that.
P.S. The number of people that died climbing Everest or who died on the roads that year is completely irrelevant.

Just let sleeping wolves lie otherwise AIR will get bitten.

Roger, I beleive the average age of the New Zealand population at this time is 38 or thereabouts. That means that more people than not were born after the incident you refer to. I for one would like to see Antarctica one day, and would feel a bit 'ripped off' that I may not get the chance to do so, simply because your feelings might get hurt if Air was to offer such a service? How many years is an appropriate cooling off period to be? Should my generation and I be deprived of opportunity to see Antarctica?

[Beagle]

Roger, I beleive the average age of the New Zealand population at this time is 38 or thereabouts. That means that more people than not were born after the incident you refer to. I for one would like to see Antarctica one day, and would feel a bit 'ripped off' that I may not get the chance to do so, simply because your feelings might get hurt if Air was to offer such a service? How many years is an appropriate cooling off period to be? Should my generation and I be deprived of opportunity to see Antarctica?

How long is a piece of string ? Cruise ship and get up nice and close to the Ice shelf or take a trip to Bounes Aires which more or less flies over the Antarctic anyway.

[Raz]

Must be good sales reps if they get big beamers to joy around in. Are they sign written?

Don’t know what AIR sales rep actually does but a Suzuki Swift sounds good enough.

But if it’s about turning up at AIR sponsored events maybe a Beamer is the thing.

Does seem an extravagance though.

You haven't seen this lot party.. was in Queenstown same time as them last year...extravagance is the right word :-)

[couta1]

You haven't seen this lot party.. was in Queenstown same time as them last year...extravagance is the right word :-) Your making me feel glad I'm not a shareholder, a bit of frugal living sounds the ticket for some of these flaunters.

[iceman]

Shane Jones warns AIR NZ and tells them to stop closing regional routes !!! http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12015743

Even though it isn't his responsibility, NZ First will want to land a win in this arena and what better company to target than AIR

[winner69]

Shane Jones warns AIR NZ and tells them to stop closing regional routes !!! http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12015743

Even though it isn't his responsibility, NZ First will want to land a win in this arena and what better company to target than AIR

One poster on this thread will disagree with Shane

Sad fact of life ..... in pursuit of ever increasing profits (sometimes thats the ase for AIR) to satisfy shareholders expectations some 'stakeholders' need to miss out. Need to understand that Shane

[percy]

One poster on this thread will disagree with Shane

Sad fact of life ..... in pursuit of ever increasing profits (sometimes thats the ase for AIR) to satisfy shareholders expectations some 'stakeholders' need to miss out. Need to understand that Shane

Maybe a great window of opportunity for NZ First Airways.!
Come on Shane you know you can make it fly.

[Antipodean]

If a route is not economically viable, any reasonable aviation company should ditch it. Shane Jones can suck a lemon and deal with it.

[Zaphod]

If a route is not economically viable, any reasonable aviation company should ditch it. Shane Jones can suck a lemon and deal with it.

Yes, I completely agree.

Mr Jones, perhaps if a subsidy is available for those non-commercial routes AirNZ might reconsider? Not ideal for the taxpayers, but if it's going to happen then shareholders might as well receive a return on their tax-payer funded investment.

[Beagle]

According to behind the paywall article on NBR the closing down of Kapiti coast route was more about the tightness of pilot supply than anything else.
Perhaps some of the regional development fund should go towards increased funding for regional flight schools ?

[777]

According to behind the paywall article on NBR the closing down of Kapiti coast route was more about the tightness of pilot supply than anything else.
Perhaps some of the regional development fund should go towards increased funding for regional flight schools ?

Journalist speculation.

[Beagle]

Journalist speculation.

No they don't do that, surely not...lol

[sb9]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/air-nz-ticks-government-after-shane-jones-outburst-cs-213950

Nice work Mr Carter.

[Beagle]

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/air-nz-ticks-government-after-shane-jones-outburst-cs-213950

Nice work Mr Carter.

Hear hear. Good to see Jones being put in his place.

[peat]

If Jones is only 'expressing an opinion' then he shouldn't express it in the imperative. He was reported saying 'Dont shut down regional links' and as such it can only have been interpreted as a threat.
But despite us all agreeing about commercial independence there is always a point where being the National Flag Holder (which provides some benefits such as implicit govt guarantee) also incurs some responsibilities.

Remember Air NZ pulled out of Whanganui less than two years ago and so the West Coast of the Nth Is. would appear to be taking a hammering from this habit of culling the regions. If serving marginal links is considered a social service then it would be good to see innovative ways of achieving this.

[Beagle]

Its been widely reported Peat that Wanganui residents were driving the short distance to Palmerston North to pick up the dirt cheap fares offered by Jet Star. Its really not that far. There are considerable benefits in terms of driving and commute time to living and working in small regional area's. The odd time they have to spend a little longer in their cars, (like Aucklanders do every day) to drive to a more centralized hub for air services needs to be viewed in the context of their overall lifestyle and travel time advantages.

I agree 100% that Jones was well and truly out of line with his "bulldog" bully-boy threat.

[peat]

Its been widely reported Peat that Wanganui residents were driving the short distance to Palmerston North to pick up the dirt cheap fares offered by Jet Star. Its really not that far. There are considerable benefits in terms of driving and commute time to living and working in small regional area's.

Its an hours drive to Palmy , I've done it once since I moved here to the 'Nui this month. I'm not commuting but yeh getting around the place is amazingly easy here.

Air Chatham offer a pretty cheap service to Auckland so capitalism comes to the rescue - where there's a gap some entrepreneur will fill it.

I do believe though that National Flag Carrier bears some responsibilities to the nation.

[Beagle]

Most times of the day it would take me over an hour to get to Auckland airport Peat and then another 10-15 minutes trying to find a park at Auckland airports choc-a-block car park. Factor in a safety margin of another 15 minutes because of the possibility of extra congested traffic and I have to leave home nearly 2 hours before a morning flight so those expecting me to shed a tear for those in the regions who have to travel less time to get to a more centralised airport best not hold their breath. I don't believe the national carrier should have any overt or implied social cost impost placed upon it because as you suggest if the route is profitable with smaller aircraft someone will step into the breech.

AIR offered to supply all historical flight load data to any airline interested in taking over the Kapiti coast route, unreasonable to ask for more than that.
Air N.Z. is not a division of WINZ and is not there to be a convenience for people who simply can't be bothered driving an hour or a bit more. Regional people need to harden up a bit and realise that along with all the wonderful benefits of living in a regional area comes the occasional inconvenience for which it is morally wrong shareholders should pay for in any way shape or form.

https://www.moneyhub.co.nz/air-new-zealand-tips.html#before

[macduffy]

Shouldn't Shane Jones be first setting up an inquiry, or a working group, a royal commission or a parliamentary commission or something before criticising Air New Zealand?

:D

[couta1]

Reeks of Deja Vu, remember before the last election Mr Jones strongly recommended publically that Contact Energy shareholders sell their shares, because when they got into Govt, they were going to buy the company back, yeah right.

[workingdad]

Airnz stopped flying Hamilton to Auckland last year and this was a frustration as Auckland is generally where I depart for international flights, starting in Hamilton going to Auckland and then onto where ever was real handy but alas I have to drive from the metropolis of Hamilton to Auckland about 125kms or go via Wellington which adds more travel time than the drive. So its not just the small regions having to suck it up. I understand commercial decisions are just that and accept it. Too many people have expectations of this and that but if it was their business what decisions would they make? Airnz is an airline and an iconic kiwi brand but it has to operate and compete in the same environment as the others.

[iceman]

Reeks of Deja Vu, remember before the last election Mr Jones strongly recommended publically that Contact Energy shareholders sell their shares, because when they got into Govt, they were going to buy the company back, yeah right.

That was Winnie himself wasnt it ??

[couta1]

That was Winnie himself wasnt it ?? Nah it was Jones, Winnie attended to damage control duties.

[Joshuatree]

Airnz stopped flying Hamilton to Auckland last year and this was a frustration as Auckland is generally where I depart for international flights, starting in Hamilton going to Auckland and then onto where ever was real handy but alas I have to drive from the metropolis of Hamilton to Auckland about 125kms or go via Wellington which adds more travel time than the drive. So its not just the small regions having to suck it up. I understand commercial decisions are just that and accept it. Too many people have expectations of this and that but if it was their business what decisions would they make? Airnz is an airline and an iconic kiwi brand but it has to operate and compete in the same environment as the others.

Sure but theres only Jetstar, minimal comp here and here is where AIR make most of their profits or is that the highest % per fare profit? I think there would be large productivity gains and consumer win/spend plus the feel good factor of many more people visiting family/ friends etc etc if more destinations and reasonable/affordable prices were in place.

[winner69]

beagle - your hero on the radio this morning (regionak service stuff I think) . His halo glowing bright again

Health warning ....only allowed to listen to once ....repeats will endanger your health

https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018636998

Must be getting excited about having dinner with Obama tonight

[iceman]

Winner one has to wonder what this is all doing to AIR. Luxon came out swinging and answering Jones. That has only strengthened Jones' resolve and now he has said he represents a new Government and the Board of Air NZ should not think they are an extension of the last Government. He went further just now on National Radio calling for resignations from the Board. I can't see Luxon staying in the role when receiving this sort of criticism from a 51% shareholder.
I wish I hadn't bought in again a month ago.

[winner69]

Winner one has to wonder what this is all doing to AIR. Luxon came out swinging and answering Jones. That has only strengthened Jones' resolve and now he has said he represents a new Government and the Board of Air NZ should not think they are an extension of the last Government. He went further just now on National Radio calling for resignations from the Board. I can't see Luxon staying in the role when receiving this sort of criticism from a 51% shareholder.
I wish I hadn't bought in again a month ago.

Sometimes better just to shut up eh and let Shane run out of puff.

Mind you Robertson as the Shareholding Minister keeps saying he can influence Board changes and the next AGM is in September ...hmm

[Raz]

Sometimes better just to shut up eh and let Shane run out of puff.

Mind you Robertson as the Shareholding Minister keeps saying he can influence Board changes and the next AGM is in September ...hmm

It is a concern, you would think the crown gets its dividend then can decide how it wants to use that return, be it targeting funding for regional flights/regions etc. That would be the appropriate approach. i personally think AIR strategy of Auckland centric/based has an economic effect on the rest of the country however the way to deal with this is not via AIR influence directly...they cannot run as a government department.

[Raz]

beagle - your hero on the radio this morning (regionak service stuff I think) . His halo glowing bright again

Health warning ....only allowed to listen to once ....repeats will endanger your health

https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018636998

Must be getting excited about having dinner with Obama tonight

Everyone seems over excited on this one...have an invite as associated although not overly enamoured by the guy.

[winner69]

One thing AIR do very well is promote NZ to the world.....which drives tourism and trade dollars.

Cornerstone of AIR’s strategy that is.

[winner69]

Wonder if Fonterra will come knocking on Chris’s door again now Theo has packed a sad

Chris must have been keen last time .....got a few million for staying with AIR

[BlackPeter]

One thing AIR do very well is promote NZ to the world.....which drives tourism and trade dollars.

Cornerstone of AIR’s strategy that is.

Well, yes - they used to do that rather well. Not so sure anymore, whether they are still continuing with this strategy. If they do, than they are good in hiding it ;).

How exactly is paying lots of money for an expired US president to talk to invited "luminaries" like Raz who not even like him improving NZ as tourism destination? Mr. O does not even allow publicity for most of his events.

And never mind the particular sensitivities - but paying lots of money to promote adventure tourism in Antarctica (in form of their latest safety video) - how exactly is this helping tourism in New Zealand?

It does not help either that they seem to desert the provinces. How is this good for tourism - and how much more bad publicity do we need before they lose their home advantage?

I think AIR lost its way ...

[Beagle]

Hi BP. According to TVNZ this morning Obama has 100 million followers on social media channels so one would assume that a few tweets and posts of pretty golf courses might have a positive effect on Tourism to N.Z. but maybe AIR are on a goose chase with spending their money like Obama was chasing his weapons of mass destruction. Don't forget to ask Obama RAZ, if he's found them yet.

Actually speaking of weapons of mass destruction Jones is doubling down and behaving little better than a deranged school yard bully. If this is the sort of complete nonsense N.Z. business has to "look forward too" from the new left wing socialist experiment we're calling a Govt, God help us !... Any wonder why business confidence is still really low.

Thanks for the link winner, Will have a look...need a tonic today...might listen twice.

[huxley]

Hi BP. According to TVNZ this morning Obama has 100 million followers on social media channels so one would assume that a few tweets and posts of pretty golf courses might have a positive effect on Tourism to N.Z. but maybe AIR are on a goose chase with spending their money like Obama was chasing his weapons of mass destruction. Don't forget to ask Obama RAZ, if he's found them yet.

Actually speaking of weapons of mass destruction Jones is doubling down and behaving little better than a deranged school yard bully. If this is the sort of complete nonsense N.Z. business has to "look forward too" from the new left wing socialist experiment we're calling a Govt, God help us !... Any wonder why business confidence is still really low.

Thanks for the link winner, Will have a look...need a tonic today...might listen twice.

Gosh, Shane Jones looking like a character from ‘the Death of the Stalin’

Good film by the way :)

[BlackPeter]

Hi BP. According to TVNZ this morning Obama has 100 million followers on social media channels so one would assume that a few tweets and posts of pretty golf courses might have a positive effect on Tourism to N.Z. but maybe AIR are on a goose chase with spending their money like Obama was chasing his weapons of mass destruction. Don't forget to ask Obama RAZ, if he's found them yet.

Actually speaking of weapons of mass destruction Jones is doubling down and behaving little better than a deranged school yard bully. If this is the sort of complete nonsense N.Z. business has to "look forward too" from the new left wing socialist experiment we're calling a Govt, God help us !... Any wonder why business confidence is still really low.

Thanks for the link winner, Will have a look...need a tonic today...might listen twice.

Wasn't it George W Bush who was chasing Hussein's Weapons of Mass Destruction? I guess Obama was arguably not very successful (but his half arsed health reform), but he was not stupid.

I guess we shall see whether activating his twitter account is part of Obama's marketing contract with Air New Zealand. Maybe they should have invited Trump instead - I understand this twit twitters for free :p;

How is the weather in Northland anyway? According to the telly they better make their fotos today, forecast is pretty sad for the rest of the week. We would not want him to send fotos of a grey-ish landscape where it is raining cats and dogs - wouldn't we?

[sb9]

beagle - your hero on the radio this morning (regionak service stuff I think) . His halo glowing bright again

Health warning ....only allowed to listen to once ....repeats will endanger your health

https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018636998

Must be getting excited about having dinner with Obama tonight

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/larry-williams-drive/audio/shane-jones-reacts-to-air-nz-cutting-regional-flights/

Well this one is bit more heated and feisty between Larry Williams and Shane Jones.

[Onion]

It is a concern, you would think the crown gets its dividend then can decide how it wants to use that return, be it targeting funding for regional flights/regions etc. That would be the appropriate approach.

Other transport providers receive subsidies to operate bus and train services. That model clearly separates the business imperatives from the public service imperatives. The government is at liberty to explicitly fund regional services if it sees fit but should not force loss-making routes on providers.

Would Infratil/NZ Bus be accommodating if asked to run bus services at a loss? I don't think so.

On the other hand I believe that Auckland bus services are provided by a charity:


the charitable tax loophole gives Ngāi Tahu's Go Bus business a competitive advantage to bid for the Auckland Transport bus contract

source: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/96742698/how-some-new-zealand-business-make-billions-and-pay-no-tax

Maybe Air NZ should turn itself into a charity and serve regional NZ at no cost?

[RGR367]

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/larry-williams-drive/audio/shane-jones-reacts-to-air-nz-cutting-regional-flights/

Well this one is bit more heated and feisty between Larry Williams and Shane Jones.

Yeah, :) never thought radio talk was exciting. So exciting I might just sell all my shares soon :mad ;:

[Beagle]

beagle - your hero on the radio this morning (regionak service stuff I think) . His halo glowing bright again

Health warning ....only allowed to listen to once ....repeats will endanger your health

https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018636998

Must be getting excited about having dinner with Obama tonight
Good to see Chris Luxon and Tony Cater earning their wages.


Winner one has to wonder what this is all doing to AIR. Luxon came out swinging and answering Jones. That has only strengthened Jones' resolve and now he has said he represents a new Government and the Board of Air NZ should not think they are an extension of the last Government. He went further just now on National Radio calling for resignations from the Board. I can't see Luxon staying in the role when receiving this sort of criticism from a 51% shareholder.
I wish I hadn't bought in again a month ago.

The school yard bully is just throwing his weight around. This will die down and blow over soon enough.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/company-news/jones-wants-heads-to-roll-over-air-nz-flight-feud/ar-BBKu0Tr?ocid=spartandhp

[Beagle]

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/shane-jones-air-nz-comments-a-step-too-far-pm-ardern/ar-BBKulOP?ocid=spartandhp

Some common sense from the PM. Hopefully John Key has a few words with her about the seriousness of how far out of line Jones was when he's finished talking to Obama. I did think Tony Carter's letter was very good. Give him some brownie points for that.

[workingdad]

Winner one has to wonder what this is all doing to AIR. Luxon came out swinging and answering Jones. That has only strengthened Jones' resolve and now he has said he represents a new Government and the Board of Air NZ should not think they are an extension of the last Government. He went further just now on National Radio calling for resignations from the Board. I can't see Luxon staying in the role when receiving this sort of criticism from a 51% shareholder.
I wish I hadn't bought in again a month ago.

I will buy your shares off you at the price you paid a month ago, win win situation :t_up:

[Beagle]

I will buy your shares off you at the price you paid a month ago, win win situation :t_up:

LOL I'll even give you another 10 cents Iceman as well as a couple of beers after the SUM annual meeting, now that's got to be a fair deal :D

[winner69]

A minister's "meddling" in Air New Zealand could wipe up to 30 per cent off the airline's market value, an investment analyst says.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/102458832/stateowned-companies-there-to-make-profit-only-analyst-says

[percy]

Good to see Chris Luxon and Tony Cater earning their wages.



The school yard bully is just throwing his weight around. This will die down and blow over soon enough.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/company-news/jones-wants-heads-to-roll-over-air-nz-flight-feud/ar-BBKu0Tr?ocid=spartandhp

We must keep a close eye on this.
A few years ago Lyttleton Port Co. had nearly settled a strike, when the union went to ChCh Labour City Council ,who owned the majority shareholding in Lyttelton Port Co,and demanded they step into the dispute. Two ChCh City Holdings directors,Paddy Austin and Craig Boyce [chairman of SCY],met with Lyttleton Port Co Chairman Dr.Brent Layton and demanded he settled the strike in the unions favour.Layton resigned and kept his reputation intact.ChCh City Holdings then appointed Barney [my grandfather was a ship's captain] chairman.The Lyttelton Port Co's share price went into a down trend straight away,and shareholders only got out when ChCh City holdings brought them out..
A hopeless situation which I am sure Shane Jones would like to see repeated .
People like Shane Jones do not give in.
I would not be surprised to see the whole AIR board resign,when the current government appoint "their" director when a vacancy arises.

Google Lyttleton chairman resigns.

[iceman]

We should all be selling Beagle and workingdad. Jones said in the interview linked above that AIR has had 9 years which will be the "golden era of the company" and now its all over !! Surprisingly the PM was quick off her feet and told Jones to shut up, so I might just hold on a little longer ;)

[workingdad]

sell order in...... for 3.70 haha.

To be honest though, I really think they need to do better with how they handle legitimate complaints. The bad press just isn't worth it and having had first hand experience having to drag compensation out of them with regard to baggage issues business class to Vancouver I thought they needed to up their game. Its in the press somewhat consistently so would seem par for the course rather than an exception to the rule.....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12016562

[winner69]

Qantas shareprice didn’t do too well under their last Labour government in Australia.
(I think)

Didn’t they ground their whole fleet because of an industrial dispute - the old saying why do we only have major industrial unrest under Labour (or Labor if you Aussie)

[Baa_Baa]

We should all be selling Beagle and workingdad. Jones said in the interview linked above that AIR has had 9 years which will be the "golden era of the company" and now its all over !! Surprisingly the PM was quick off her feet and told Jones to shut up, so I might just hold on a little longer ;)

Market today reckons ... Jones 0, AIR 1

Don't be too hasty, the blowhard versus the immovable legislation. Anyone unsure about what the government can or cannot do (let alone a lone wolf Minister), should read the legislation. Shane Jones appears to have not done his homework.

[777]

Market today reckons ... Jones 0, AIR 1

Don't be too hasty, the blowhard versus the immovable legislation. Anyone unsure about what the government can or cannot do (let alone a lone wolf Minister), should read the legislation. Shane Jones appears to have not done his homework.

He just thinks all that legislation is gobbly-gook.

[Jantar]

My son is a pilot for Qantas flying their domestic routes. He commented that they are so many pilots short that the remaining pilots are flying their maximum number of hours. This situation is common to most airlines, including AIR.

[whatsup]

Market today reckons ... Jones 0, AIR 1

Don't be too hasty, the blowhard versus the immovable legislation. Anyone unsure about what the government can or cannot do (let alone a lone wolf Minister), should read the legislation. Shane Jones appears to have not done his homework.


Im thinking that Jonesy is reading his Penthouse upside down !!

[couta1]

Good article in the Herald this morning by Mike Hosking about that Jones Thug and Air NZ.

[winner69]

Good article in the Herald this morning by Mike Hosking about that Jones Thug and Air NZ.

This is more telling article .. Jacinda and her government creating uncertainity in the business world and business hates uncertainity

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/102475250/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-promised-intervention-but-is-delivering-uncertainty

[stoploss]

Good article in the Herald this morning by Mike Hosking about that Jones Thug and Air NZ.

Shane Jones gets the Hosking double barrel even got the wife to chime in ....
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12017708

[winner69]

Shane Jones gets the Hosking double barrel even got the wife to chime in ....
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12017708

Shane loving every bit of it though

Just gets him more fired up

[Joshuatree]

Good article in the Herald this morning by Mike Hosking about that Jones Thug and Air NZ.

Hosings is on a parr with whale oil imo.

Interesting and ironical that Johnkey was also supportive of the regions getting better pricing and service"key talked about monopoly type positions and the need to deliver fair pricing to the regions"

"And in 2015 key was shoulder to shoulder with qantas group top brass at the launch of Jetstar regional services and he said kiwis in the regions would be cheering wildly" BOP times today.

Shane jones is getting a lot of support coming in from the regions and their mayors.

[Raz]

Hosings is on a parr with whale oil imo.

Interesting and ironical that Johnkey was also supportive of the regions getting better pricing and service"key talked about monopoly type positions and the need to deliver fair pricing to the regions"

"And in 2015 key was shoulder to shoulder with qantas group top brass at the launch of jesters regional services and he said kiwis in the regions would be cheering wildly" BOP times today.

Shane jones is getting a lot of support coming in from the regions and their mayors.


This is a political win for Shane Jones..he looks like a champion for the regions..the details/follow up do not matter. The timing of this is interesting as talk back starts to harp on that AIR cannot afford regional services however its claimed finds 1.5 million to bring Mr O here...the optics on this are bad.

All up.... what do you think as shareholders we are paying for me to have dinner and hear from Mr O tonight i.e per head.

[Beagle]

Well I hope the regional thug is seated down the back by the toilets and listens intently to Obama's musings about leadership as he could certainly do with a few pointers !
He deserves to be stripped of his regional portfolio is he keeps up his unwarranted bully boy campaign.

[Beagle]

This is a political win for Shane Jones..he looks like a champion for the regions..the details/follow up do not matter. The timing of this is interesting as talk back starts to harp on that AIR cannot afford regional services however its claimed finds 1.5 million to bring Mr O here...the optics on this are bad.

All up.... what do you think as shareholders we are paying for me to have dinner and hear from Mr O tonight i.e per head.

All I can say is I hope you're doing the decent thing and flying AIR to get up here.

[Joshuatree]

Well I hope the regional thug is seated down the back by the toilets and listens intently to Obama's musings about leadership as he could certainly do with a few pointers !
He deserves to be stripped of his regional portfolio is he keeps up his unwarranted bully boy campaign.

LOL yep he s on a roll with this ,worried about your divis are you, dont give a hoot about the regions overpaying and under serviced, sounds very divisive to me just what we want for the times, NOT. Spend a few mill on obama coming and invite the elite along stuff the regions thats what it looks like.

[couta1]

LOL yep he s on a roll with this ,worried about your divis are you, dont give a hoot about the regions overpaying and under serviced, sounds very divisive to me just what we want for the times, NOT. Spend a few mill on obama coming and invite the elite along stuff the regions thats what it looks like. The whole thing is just a symptom of an inept Govt when it comes to understanding and promoting business in NZ, no wonder business confidence is in the doldrums.

[Beagle]

LOL yep he s on a roll with this ,worried about your divis are you, dont give a hoot about the regions overpaying and under serviced, sounds very divisive to me just what we want for the times, NOT. Spend a few mill on obama coming and invite the elite along stuff the regions thats what it looks like.

Chris Luxon outlined the other day the substantial increase in regional flights AIR had undertaken. It was about 5% from memory and regional airfares have come down about 8%, again from memory. Your post is completely at odds with the facts and is motivated by self interest. Of course you'd like to see flights from Mt Manganui to anywhere in N.Z. at dirt cheap prices but the commercial reality is that if this route was so profitable Jetstar would already be flying on it.

Completely agree Couta1. This coalition experiment that passes for an excuse of a Government is already starting to look like a dog's breakfast gone off.

[Joshuatree]

The whole thing is just a symptom of an inept Govt when it comes to understanding and promoting business in NZ, no wonder business confidence is in the doldrums.

Dream on, and being divisive do you really think thats the way forward for this country, think about it.

[Joshuatree]

Chris Luxon outlined the other day the substantial increase in regional flights AIR had undertaken. It was about 5% from memory and regional airfares have come down about 8%, again from memory. Your post is completely at odds with the facts and is motivated by self interest. Of course you'd like to see flights from Mt Manganui to anywhere in N.Z. at dirt cheap prices but the commercial reality is that if this route was so profitable Jetstar would already be flying on it.

Hes a good spinner is Chris, isn't he Roger. i hope you can comprehend im not thinking of myself here but the R E G I O N s ok?. Tauranga is growing so damn fastest clogging up infrastructure wise, hell people are picketing roads, putting signs up and threatening to block the roads to get improvements. Shane jones is doing his version too for the regions more assertively then John Key was but the same thing.. so come on Johnkey now you are a director pull your finger out . Tauranga is getting cheaper airfares already btw.

[Beagle]

Grant Robertson the assigned minister said yesterday that the CEO and Chairman are doing a good job.
Politician's behaving like thugs will do nothing for N.Z. already somewhat tarnished image in the eyes of international investors...as though we need this after the CBL fiasco.
Chris Luxon impresses me as a straight shooter Joshuatree. I've discussed issues with him after most recent annual meetings and he articulates his thoughts clearly and communicates extremely well. While I don't agree with everything he does, (really gets carried away with environmental public relations stuff) I have the upmost respect for him.

[BlackPeter]

Hes a good spinner is Chris, isn't he Roger. i hope you can comprehend im not thinking of myself here but the R E G I O N s ok?. Tauranga is growing so damn fastest clogging up infrastructure wise, hell people are picketing roads, putting signs up and threatening to block the roads to get improvements. Shane jones is doing his version too for the regions more assertively then John Key was but the same thing.. so come on Johnkey now you are a director pull your finger out . Tauranga is getting cheaper airfares already btw.

Amazingly stupid post. You don't seem to understand that it is the role of a company board to serve all of its shareholders instead of dancing to the tune of a bunch of Trump-like populists who only want to make cheap political points.

If the government really thinks that subsidizing these routes is the best they can do with the taxpayers money, than this is what they should do. Trying to bully listed companies however into providing loss making services can achieve only one thing - getting rid of investors. The latter will damage the New Zealand economy for years to come. Is this really the best your kind of ilk can do?

[Beagle]

Amazingly stupid post. You don't seem to understand that it is the role of a company board to serve all of its shareholders instead of dancing to the tune of a bunch of Trump-like populists who only want to make cheap political points.

If the government really thinks that subsidizing these routes is the best they can do with the taxpayers money, than this is what they should do. Trying to bully listed companies however into providing loss making services can achieve only one thing - getting rid of investors. The latter will damage the New Zealand economy for years to come. Is this really the best your kind of ilk can do?

Post of the day for sure mate. Wish I could give you double rep points for that one !!

[couta1]

Amazingly stupid post. You don't seem to understand that it is the role of a company board to serve all of its shareholders instead of dancing to the tune of a bunch of Trump-like populists who only want to make cheap political points.

If the government really thinks that subsidizing these routes is the best they can do with the taxpayers money, than this is what they should do. Trying to bully listed companies however into providing loss making services can achieve only one thing - getting rid of investors. The latter will damage the New Zealand economy for years to come. Is this really the best your kind of ilk can do? Very well put.

[drcjp]

IIRC, I read a few year back that AirNZ makes a loss of something like NZD$1M per month on internal operations. That shows how good, and how profitable, the international routes are for them.
I will try and find that info.

[winner69]

IIRC, I read a few year back that AirNZ makes a loss of something like NZD$1M per month on internal operations. That shows how good, and how profitable, the international routes are for them.
I will try and find that info.

I think it’s the other way around

[Beagle]

IIRC, I read a few year back that AirNZ makes a loss of something like NZD$1M per month on internal operations. That shows how good, and how profitable, the international routes are for them.
I will try and find that info.

They were losing $1m a month on their 19 seater Beechcraft aircraft which cost almost as much to fly as an ATR600 with more than 60 seats according to one pilot I spoke too.
These same aircraft are now being used by Air Chatams to provide the same service...I really don't see why some bulldog's have worked themselves up into a real lather over this..oh yes, to score cheap political points at the expense of shareholders.

[Onion]

They were losing $1m a month on their 19 seater Beechcraft aircraft which cost almost as much to fly as an ATR600 with more than 60 seats according to one pilot I spoke too.
These same aircraft are now being used by Air Chatams to provide the same service...I really don't see why some bulldog's have worked themselves up into a real lather over this..oh yes, to score cheap political points at the expense of shareholders.

The Beechcraft aren't part of the fleet according to their website:

https://www.airchathams.co.nz/about-air-chathams/fleet/

They do have a 1945 Douglas DC-3 though!

https://www.airchathams.co.nz/about-air-chathams/fleet/Douglas-DC-3/

[Beagle]

Opps got my wires crossed, quite right, they're 19 seater Metroliners.
DC3 looks very cool :cool:

[winner69]

The Beechcraft aren't part of the fleet according to their website:

https://www.airchathams.co.nz/about-air-chathams/fleet/

They do have a 1945 Douglas DC-3 though!

https://www.airchathams.co.nz/about-air-chathams/fleet/Douglas-DC-3/

That DC-3 is one cool plane.

[winner69]

Getting personal now -

A former Far North mayor has taken a swipe at Air New Zealand's service to his region and backed Cabinet Minister Shane Jones' criticism of the airline's board.

Wayne Brown said it was ''laughable'' for the airline's chairman Tony Carter to suggest there should be no criticism of not servicing rural New Zealand because of its commercial imperative.

''That chairman is also a director of record loss-making Fletchers, so how would he recognise being commercial?'' said Brown, also a former chairman of the Auckland District Health Board.

[kiwico]

It is great to see that AIR and RR have successfully managed their way through the engine problems and are bringing the Dreamliners back into full schedule. It has removed what was potentially a very serious problem for AIR. Well done AIR.

I was on two Dreamliners last week, Virgin LHR to Shanghai and then Air NZ to Auckland, with both a pleasure to fly on. The flight from Auckland to Wellington was on a filthy plane though, with the Air NZ crew apologising profusely throughout the flight.

[kiwico]

And as an aside, the Virgin Atlantic safety video beats the "lets fly an American actor/environmentalist all the way to Antarctica" hands down...

[winner69]

Jacinda really has Shane under control

Luxon as a National MP ...or Fonterra ....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12018097

[mikeybycrikey]

Jacinda really has Shane under control

Luxon as a National MP ...or Fonterra ....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12018097

CEO in "might get another job sometime after his current one" shock. Shane Jones is really on the ball here. Or not.

Jones just seems totally out of his depth, which seems weird considering it's his fourth term as an MP. Or maybe he's aiming to take over Winston's job by continuing his history of blowing up fake controversy for self-promotion.

[winner69]

Obama tipped to talk about diversity to the selected 1000 tonight. That’ll be exciting.

Our Chris to make a speech as well. He’ll probably mention the environment.

Raz should enjoy himself ...if he’s really lucky he could be seated at the same table as Mr Jones

[Joshuatree]

Amazingly stupid post. You don't seem to understand that it is the role of a company board to serve all of its shareholders instead of dancing to the tune of a bunch of Trump-like populists who only want to make cheap political points.

If the government really thinks that subsidizing these routes is the best they can do with the taxpayers money, than this is what they should do. Trying to bully listed companies however into providing loss making services can achieve only one thing - getting rid of investors. The latter will damage the New Zealand economy for years to come. Is this really the best your kind of ilk can do?

Insulting,bullying :scared: does that start at home too BP lol. Got to be the gormless uncaring political post of the week. Cant believe how ignorant and uncaring posters can be on here for the Regions , Rural/regions dont count hey!. Charge the regions more than it takes to fly to aussie and back or make them fly 3 times far via Auckland who cares about productivity gains or families visiting each other etc. Nah its just about profits and your divvy ehh. ..

Much more fun spending a few $mill on Obama and our elite mates ehh and dishing out free shares to each other yeah trough it up.Good on you Key and Jones ,shoot out at the Not OK corral, black pete and his sidekicks don't stand a chance. . Mind you Key is in a tricky position now, a foot in both camps, then again its not political now is it more about the trough so cant count on him. Be inclusive and link Nz to new zealanders or be divisive and put divis ahead of your country i know what trump would do.

[BlackPeter]

Insulting,bullying :scared: does that start at home too BP lol. Got to be the gormless uncaring political post of the week. Cant believe how ignorant and uncaring posters can be on here for the Regions , Rural/regions dont count hey!. Charge the regions more than it takes to fly to aussie and back or make them fly 3 times far via Auckland who cares about productivity gains or families visiting each other etc. Nah its just about profits and your divvy ehh. ..

Much more fun spending a few $mill on Obama and our elite mates ehh and dishing out free shares to each other yeah trough it up.Good on you Key and Jones ,shoot out at the Not OK corral, black pete and his sidekicks don't stand a chance. . Mind you Key is in a tricky position now, a foot in both camps, then again its not political now is it more about the trough so cant count on him. Be inclusive and link Nz to new zealanders or be divisive and put divis ahead of your country i know what trump would do.

JT - as so often, you are missing the point by miles.

I guess whether the regions need a better air service, this is a different discussion (not on this thread - go to one of the political ones). I do not oppose a better connection of the regions (though might complain if the taxpayer needs to pay for it), but if Labour considers this as their most important issue, than by all means go for it and DO something. Subsidize some carriers, use the air force to transport people (I understand they started already with flying some NZF ministers around), support Googles flying drone taxi in Canterbury or buy everybody in the regions a Cessna ... all fine with me if the government finds the budget.

My issue was with one outspoken but quite inept minister trying to bully a listed company into subsidizing some of their services to the detriment of all share holders. This is an absolute no go if we (New Zealand) want to stay in business.

What is the next thing this idiot is asking for - Gentailers to provide free or subsidised power to selected parts of the electorate? I am sure poor old people would be deserving ... Bathurst Resources to provide cheaper coal to people who feel cold? The Warehouse to reduce prices for winter gear for selected voter groups because they just need and deserve something warm?

Where is this unholy coalition going to stop?

Look - you can't be that thick ... I am sure if you think about it (preferable before you respond :p) than you see yourself that this would kill our economical basis. Nobody would want to invest anymore in New Zealand if the government starts to redirect any earnings towards bribing their preferred political base. Exactly this is however what Mr blue movies is trying to do. Whether he has the brains to see that - I don't know, but you JT ... come on.

Ah yes - and just for the record - I don't hold AIR and subsequently don't get any AIR dividends. I am as well not at all supportive of some of the recent AIR actions.

My only interest in this matter: I live and hold capital in NZ ... and preferably would like to keep it that way (hey - 3 years can't be that long - can they).

[Joshuatree]

I think its great he's rattling the cage and much more effectively then johnkey tried back in 15/16.
. This article from RNZ says it succinctly
Victoria University's Bryce Edwards told Morning Report that in attacking Air New Zealand, Mr Jones was doing some classic and effective populist campaigning.
"[He has] identified a neglect in New Zealand where people are hurting. He's being their champion. He's identifying an enemy - [the] Air New Zealand board - and he's going hard against them."


The message would really resonate in the provinces and there were a lot of votes up for grabs in those areas, Dr Edwards said.
But he said Mr Jones needed to come up with some solutions rather than just harassing the airline.


BTW our mayor was invited to the $million plus obama fest but turned it down saying he had more important things to do with his too fast growing city. What a champion.

[Beagle]

Its all good. We can all sleep safely tonight content in the knowledge that our Raz would have sorted out Jones and reminded him that since the bailout due over 15 years ago AIR trading as a stand alone commercial enterprise free of socialist responsibility has literally contributed many billions of dollars in tax and dividends and billions more in PAYE from its 11,000 staff and those same billions have been very useful in helping establish Jones regional development lollie scramble fund as well as funding schools, hospitals, police and other social services throughout N.Z. including guess where.. yes that's right you guessed correctly,.the REGIONS !!!! Ain't free market capitalism grand. Everyone benefits.

[peat]

Its all good. We can all sleep safely tonight content in the knowledge that our Raz would have sorted out Jones and reminded him that since the bailout due over 15 years ago AIR trading as a stand alone commercial enterprise free of socialist responsibility has literally contributed many billions of dollars in tax and dividends and billions more in PAYE from its 11,000 staff and those same billions have been very useful in helping establish Jones regional development lollie scramble fund as well as funding schools, hospitals, police and other social services throughout N.Z. including guess where.. yes that's right you guessed correctly,.the REGIONS !!!! Ain't free market capitalism grand. Everyone benefits.



Lets not forget there would be no Air NZ today with true free market capitalism.

9583
Most likely it would have failed or possibly been rescued (and then consumed?) by Singapore Airlines. However public money was used by the NZ Labour govt (Clarke and CUllen ) to purchase and recapitalise and from those ashes it has risen to its current glory as a well-run entity. .

But my point is that SOE's have certain advantages over fully private ones such as access to large and cheaper funding either from the major shareholder or even as cheaper costs of finance in general arising from the implicit govt guarantee. This provides them with greater resilience and hence increases their chances of survival.

Also, the National Flag Carrier status has often protected them from takeover by foreign corporations, so again not free market.
Countries usually choose (unless they're the US ) to have a flag carrier to ensure domestic transportation isn't foreign owned so as to ensure sovereignty. The wiki definition of flag carrier mostly focuses on the benefits the airlines receive from their government

So just as the country needs Air NZ the company gains many protections and assurances from its country, it is a symbiotic relationship.

I totally agree that Air NZ must make commercial decisions but they are supported in more ways than one by the government and the people of NZ . And they should recognise that within their decision making, whatever that means.

More on topic
I was seriously considering buying in, in need of some good yield , but my mind went back to those P+L's I used to print out when I ran the GL. Oh so touchy they were. No, even if Buffets changed his mind about airlines I havent.

[iceman]

Twyford on The Nation this morning basically confirmed Jones' view is the Government's view and confirmed he, as Transport Minister, will be asking Luxon to clarify reasoning for regional decisions at their next meeting happening soon.
Whatever we think is right or wrong, it is clear that this Government wants more "social responsibility" from AIR and a change in direction. Up to us a SH what we do with that knowledge. I would not be surprised if we will see some high powered resignations from AIR.

[minimoke]

Twyford on The Nation this morning basically confirmed Jones' view is the Government's view and confirmed he, as Transport Minister, will be asking Luxon to clarify reasoning for regional decisions at their next meeting happening soon.
Whatever we think is right or wrong, it is clear that this Government wants more "social responsibility" from AIR and a change in direction. Up to us a SH what we do with that knowledge. I would not be surprised if we will see some high powered resignations from AIR.
Intersting call by Twyford. I reckon he will remind the Board the Govt is Major Shareholder and as Major Shareholder govt wants to see flight to regions.

Two options:
AirNZ continues with current dividend and then Govt pays subsidies to regions to maintain local air services. In which case taxpayer loses.
AirNZ subsidised regional flight and cuts dividends in which case shareholders loose.

Hence why govt should not interfere in commercial operations and should sell their stakeholding.

(Disc not an AIR holder and woudlnt want to be at the moment.)

[Raz]

Twyford on The Nation this morning basically confirmed Jones' view is the Government's view and confirmed he, as Transport Minister, will be asking Luxon to clarify reasoning for regional decisions at their next meeting happening soon.
Whatever we think is right or wrong, it is clear that this Government wants more "social responsibility" from AIR and a change in direction. Up to us a SH what we do with that knowledge. I would not be surprised if we will see some high powered resignations from AIR.


I did hear that as well, the other point that is not such common knowledge, my understanding is that AIR has dropped routes at times for expected higher growth routes or routes with a higher ROR rather than just dropping non profitable routes. How this government will see this given their commercial reality intransigence may be telling.

[iceman]

I did hear that as well, the other point that is not such common knowledge, my understanding is that AIR has dropped routes at times for expected higher growth routes or routes with a higher ROR rather than just dropping non profitable routes. How this government will see this given their commercial reality intransigence may be telling.

Interesting. They are also managing routes with short supply of pilots and other aircrew, which are in short supply worldwide, a problem shared by most airlines.

[winner69]

Quick economic benefit study done for AIR probably shows a 15 to 20 times return on the millions spent on sponsoring the Obama visit

That’s just the direct returns for AIR .....unquantifiable benefit to NZ Inc on top of that.

[minimoke]

Quick economic benefit study done for AIR probably shows a 15 to 20 times return on the millions spent on sponsoring the Obama visit

That’s just the direct returns for AIR .....unquantifiable benefit to NZ Inc on top of that.
Given Obama had to catch a helicopter to Matauri Bay reinforces the argument theri needs to be better regional servicing.

[Beagle]

If the rumors are true we have a problem with lack of supply of pilots. Rumor's are that AIR have dropped the intake experience requirement from 1500 hours commercial to 600 hours which is a pretty significant move. Government may need to look at funding more flight training...they could do it at regional flight schools.

Glad they have John Key on the board now. No doubt if there are talks down the track with the Govt he'll be telling these Johnny come lately armatures a thing or three.
Hope he gets promoted to Chairman soon, not that I think Tony Carter is doing a bad job, actually I thought the letter he sent the other day to Grant Robertson was spot on the mark.

I will reiterate my point. AIR have through their taxes, dividends and the PAYE of their 11,000 staff through the highly successful opoeration of their business paid the Govt BILLIONS of dollars in revenue over the last 15 years since the bailout. In addition the Gov't stake is worth just on $2b at present.
Those billions of dollars have helped fund regional hospitals, police, schools, plunket and so on.

Saddling the golden goose with a socialist agenda when private enterprise can easily take over marginal regional routes doesn't make sense for anyone.
What's next if we go down that slippery slope, free power for some people because of ancient historical grievances ?

Worth noting that the Government owns 100% of Kiwirail but is not interested in expanding into unprofitable regional routes.

What's next on this slippery slope of socialism. Do people is west and north Auckland deserve their own airport because it takes them longer to get to Auckland airport than Kapiti coast residents ? Shall we nationalize Whenunapai airport then and force AIR to run flights out of there ?

[BlackPeter]

If the rumors are true we have a problem with lack of supply of pilots. Rumor's are that AIR have dropped the intake experience requirement from 1500 hours commercial to 600 hours which is a pretty significant move. Government may need to look at funding more flight training...they could do it at [B][U]regional flight schools.


More funding for flight training? Any funding at all for pilot training would be good.

I remember - one of our boys showed (some 15 years ago) an interest in becoming a pilot. At that stage this would have meant for him to take on more than $100k debt to pay for the training, with no guarantee at all for getting afterwards a job. There had been little vacancies for pilots around, and the ones available paid a pitiful salary - something like 25 or 30 k a year for a junior).

Frankly - I am not surprised we have these days a pilot shortage - and glad to report that our son used his grey matter and is now a successful (and well paid) SW Engineer ...

[Raz]

Interesting. They are also managing routes with short supply of pilots and other aircrew, which are in short supply worldwide, a problem shared by most airlines.


That is true although there has been a shortage of pilots for the last twenty years (except for few short term exceptions), here and world wide overall.

[Beagle]

More funding for flight training? Any funding at all for pilot training would be good.

I remember - one of our boys showed (some 15 years ago) an interest in becoming a pilot. At that stage this would have meant for him to take on more than $100k debt to pay for the training, with no guarantee at all for getting afterwards a job. There had been little vacancies for pilots around, and the ones available paid a pitiful salary - something like 25 or 30 k a year for a junior).

Frankly - I am not surprised we have these days a pilot shortage - and glad to report that our son used his grey matter and is now a successful (and well paid) SW Engineer ...

Those figures gel with what I heard at that time, about 15 years ago a first officer on Eagle airways started on $28K but that was 15 years ago money BP and rent was cheap back then and like all professions you start at the bottom with a pretty large student loan. I would imagine if he had of gone down the pilot route he's be on a very handsome six figure salary now. My understanding, and its only from vague recollection, but I think the Govt started limiting the number of flight school students that could be eligible for a student loan because excess numbers were doing it just for the thrill and walking away and not repaying their loans. Perhaps its time to have another look at the whole flight school funding regime ? This shortage isn't going to go away anytime soon.

[winner69]

Aurora chasers charted an AIR Dreamliner last night and flew down to the Antarctica to capture auroras and Milky Ways etc

This is what they saw

A few bob for AIR and hope the marketing dept make the most of it.

https://twitter.com/flyairnz/status/977004549008384000

[Beagle]

Print edition of the herald this morning reported that the Hi Fly crew are preparing to depart N.Z. at the end of March. Apparently close to 100 pilots, engineers and flight crew have been stationed in Auckland and it is reported that they have thoroughly enjoyed their time here. Less happy apparently have been customers of their aging A340.

AIR are operating a Dreamliner on the Chch route daily from April 4 departing Auckland at 8.00 a.m. and returning usually at 11.00 a.m, runs through to the end of April. Not sure if this short haul duty is while they're keeping a close eye on a recently restored example of, (ZK NZE with the repaired wing damage perhaps ?) aircraft type or not but logic would suggest this may well be the case. Never been on a Dreamliner before, this is probably your cheapest chance you have to try one out before its reallocated to normal international duties but I will pass.

I'm impressed with how well the shares have held up this week against a barrage of cheap political noise and bullying from Jones, a backdrop of weak international markets and higher oil prices. I guess seeing as most shares are held by overseas institutions most of them understand Jones' grandstanding is just cheap political brownie point scoring and have ignored it, something that everyone else should have done...

[Raz]

Print edition of the herald this morning reported that the Hi Fly crew are preparing to depart N.Z. at the end of March. Apparently close to 100 pilots, engineers and flight crew have been stationed in Auckland and it is reported that they have thoroughly enjoyed their time here. Less happy apparently have been customers of their aging A340.

AIR are operating a Dreamliner on the Chch route daily from April 4 departing Auckland at 8.00 a.m. and returning usually at 11.00 a.m, runs through to the end of April. Not sure if this short haul duty is while they're keeping a close eye on a recently restored example of, (ZK NZE with the repaired wing damage perhaps ?) aircraft type or not but logic would suggest this may well be the case. Never been on a Dreamliner before, this is probably your cheapest chance you have to try one out before its reallocated to normal international duties but I will pass.

I'm impressed with how well the shares have held up this week against a barrage of cheap political noise and bullying from Jones, a backdrop of weak international markets and higher oil prices. I guess seeing as most shares are held by overseas institutions most of them understand Jones' grandstanding is just cheap political brownie point scoring and have ignored it, something that everyone else should have done...

Just an additional note to this. The dreamliner running from Auckland to Christchurch is current scheduled for a number of flights in May, I was surprise that my late return flight in May is on a dreamliner, would have avoided however left it to my travel dept. to arrange bookings. Did not see this coming...

[janner]

Aurora chasers charted an AIR Dreamliner last night and flew down to the Antarctica to capture auroras and Milky Ways etc

This is what they saw

A few bob for AIR and hope the marketing dept make the most of it.

https://twitter.com/flyairnz/status/977004549008384000

Did I not say something about their latest advert being a toe in the water to reinstate flights to Antarctica..

A very lucrative route..

Beagle has agreed to disagree with me on this one :-)))

He would prefer to turn Fiordland into Disneyland..

With our creaking infrastructure already unable to cope..

[iceman]

Just an additional note to this. The dreamliner running from Auckland to Christchurch is current scheduled for a number of flights in May, I was surprise that my late return flight in May is on a dreamliner, would have avoided however left it to my travel dept. to arrange bookings. Did not see this coming...

I'm curious Raz. Why do you say you would have avoided it if you'd known ? Is it because of the engine problems ? I find them to be the best aircraft I've ever traveled on.

[Joshuatree]

The Secret Diary of Barack Obama (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12018680) this is hilarious .

[Joshuatree]

Audrey Young: Air NZ attack scores bullseye for brand Jones

article.cfm (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12018819)

Majority shareholding minister Grant Robertson reminded the airline in non-threatening tones that the Government had influence over the appointment of the board.

[Beagle]

Heather du Plessis - Allan opines on Jones going "crazy" and Labour's frenemies

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12018200

I think AIR have their regional network where they want it now and this little storm in a teacup is nothing to be concerned about and note Grant Robertson said late this week that both Tony Carter and Chris Luxon are doing a good job.

Worth noting that when AIR axed the Kapiti coast to Christchurch route some time back not one whimper from any politician was forthcoming.

Possibly there will be a sit down with GR and the board and they will explain that the pilot situation is tight and the Government need to look at their funding for flight school students.

Overseas investors not worried that's the main thing.

[winner69]

Heather du Plessis - Allan opines on Jones going "crazy" and Labour's frenemies

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12018200

I think AIR have their regional network where they want it now and this little storm in a teacup is nothing to be concerned about and note Grant Robertson said late this week that both Tony Carter and Chris Luxon are doing a good job.

Worth noting that when AIR axed the Kapiti coast to Christchurch route some time back not one whimper from any politician was forthcoming.

Possibly there will be a sit down with GR and the board and they will explain that the pilot situation is tight and the Government need to look at their funding for flight school students.

Overseas investors not worried that's the main thing.

Grant Robertson said late this week that both Tony Carter and Chris Luxon are doing a good job (beagle) ....but on the radio (after saying that) Robertson did float the possibility of influencing Air New Zealand’s decisions through board appointments.

Overseas investors not worried that's the main thing.......YET

[jimmybuffett]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/102558864/air-new-zealand-shutting-down-regions-as-it-reconsiders-maintenance-hubs
...the plot thickens some more...is this just a political beat-up?

[winner69]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/102558864/air-new-zealand-shutting-down-regions-as-it-reconsiders-maintenance-hubs
...the plot thickens some more...is this just a political beat-up?


The airline's shift of engineering jobs away from smaller centres reinforced his concerns about its direction: "I do feel that there is a certain elite culture that has taken root in the board of Air NZ and it's filtered through to the executive and they've forgotten that their major owner is the Crown." (Shane)

But on here we need to support and praise every move AIR make to earn an extra buck for the good of shareholders ....and if that means sonebody has to catch a bus from Wellington to New Plymouth for $30 instead of flying through Auckland which takes the same time sobeit.

That’s how the world works these days....esp if it’s driven by this ‘elite culture’ that Shane talks about

[Beagle]

Govt should nationalise Air NZ put Jones in as CEO and Board Chair then he can fly the airline wherever he likes. They are welcome to make me a takeover offer at $6 a share and I will accept. Whatever happened to N.Z. First's promises to reduce immigration and Jones promise to buy back the power company shares ? Just a load of hot air !
Jones should put up or shut up.

[jimmybuffett]

Jones should put up or shut up.
Chances of this happening, please advise in % terms...? LOL.

[Beagle]

Chances of this happening, please advise in % terms...? LOL.

Exactly the same percentage chance of him making good on other promises.
Whatever happened to N.Z. First's promises to reduce immigration and Jones promise to buy back the power company shares ?
lol

[Marilyn Munroe]

Those of you who have followed this thread for a while will recall my advocating John Key to sell Cullen Airlines to Etihad.

Mathew Hooton has an op-ed in a similar vain in the NZ Herald asking why does the government own an airline.

A sale to Etihad is less likely now. That have stumbled with their airline ownership ventures in Europe so are likely to be gun shy of doing the same. The oil price crash has also restrained the sand states from their previous if it flies buy it strategy.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12018308

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[westerly]

Govt should nationalise Air NZ put Jones in as CEO and Board Chair then he can fly the airline wherever he likes. They are welcome to make me a takeover offer at $6 a share and I will accept. Whatever happened to N.Z. First's promises to reduce immigration and Jones promise to buy back the power company shares ? Just a load of hot air !
Jones should put up or shut up.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102530006/

Another viewpoint, especially as the taxpayer has a major interest in the company

westerly

[Baa_Baa]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/102530006/

Another viewpoint, especially as the taxpayer has a major interest in the company

westerly

This one isn't just going to go away is it. However vested or not the taxpayer is in AIR, the company with its majority Crown ownership cannot, because it will not be allowed to, function purely as a commercial entity focused solely on returns to its shareholders. The implicit, if not direct responsibility to provide a social service, seems destined to undermine shareholder value as the greater powers vest their interest. Given the lopsided balance of AIR ownership between the Crown and offshore interests with a minority of minnows, the downside SP risk seems imminent should the government take a stance of principles versus pure financial returns.

[iceman]

This one isn't just going to go away is it. However vested or not the taxpayer is in AIR, the company with its majority Crown ownership cannot, because it will not be allowed to, function purely as a commercial entity focused solely on returns to its shareholders. The implicit, if not direct responsibility to provide a social service, seems destined to undermine shareholder value as the greater powers vest their interest. Given the lopsided balance of AIR ownership between the Crown and offshore interests with a minority of minnows, the downside SP risk seems imminent should the government take a stance of principles versus pure financial returns.

I agree totally with this Baa baa. I think this has now become a real risk to us small SH in this company and Jones and NZ First are going to play a political game with it. The Government shareholdings in AIR and all the gentailers should be transferred into the Superfund to remove it an armslenght from politicians, or sold.

[couta1]

I agree totally with this Baa baa. I think this has now become a real risk to us small SH in this company and Jones and NZ First are going to play a political game with it. The Government shareholdings in AIR and all the gentailers should be transferred into the Superfund to remove it an armslenght from politicians, or sold. The only saving grace could well be that this is a one term Govt, once Cullen and Co put forward their tax option on the table prior to the next election, either a CGT or a Wealth(Envy) tax. Wealth taxes have been trialed and rejected by most other countries over the years so I'm picking a CGT will be put forward, hopefully that would be enough to send the current business unfriendly lot back to the backbenches. In the mean time Jones and Co can work out how they are going raise over 10 billion plus to buy back the power companies.

[percy]

Piece of cake.
Labour election bride to beneficiaries was/is payments towards power bills.
Jones just needs to sit down with AIR, and find out how much it will cost to get AIR to fly to the regions .
He has the regions development money.
Pay the money,get the flights.
If he can't do a deal with AIR, phone Alliance Airlines in Brisbane who have Fokker 50s,70s and 100s available for wet lease,charter or whatever Jones needs.ph. 61 7 3212 1212.

disc.I hold AQZ shares.

[stoploss]

Piece of cake.
Labour election bride to beneficiaries was/is payments towards power bills.
Jones just needs to sit down with AIR, and find out how much it will cost to get AIR to fly to the regions .
He has the regions development money.
Pay the money,get the flights.
If he can't do a deal with AIR, phone Alliance Airlines in Brisbane who have Fokker 50s,70s and 100s available for wet lease,charter or whatever Jones needs.ph. 61 7 3212 1212 (tel:61 7 3212 1212).

disc.I hold AQZ shares.
failing that the Kapiti DC , could do a deal with Singapore airlines, they live a subsidy being such a small airline and all ��

[BlackPeter]

failing that the Kapiti DC , could do a deal with Singapore airlines, they live a subsidy being such a small airline and all ��

Definitely - I am sure they have a handful of tax dollars left to make the runway suitable for Singapore Airlines 777 ...

[Beagle]

Some people are drawing a very long bow assuming the fundamental basis of AIR's highly successful operation, (one that's returned billions of dollars in company tax, dividends and PAYE to the Government over the years) will change just because one bulldog gets carried away with the sound of his own barking...something I never do lol
Time for a reality check, politicians make noise for political capital and then it dies down. If anything comes out of this its simply a meeting between Robertson and the board and they'll explain their Kapiti withdrawal, probably as a lack of pilots and the need for more flight school funding...so this could yet turn out to be a positive for AIR.
In any event I think they have their domestic business model where they want it to be now.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12019958
I see AIR get's a pretty good note on a comparative basis.

[percy]

Maybe Jones could ask the other Jones with a knighthood ,to buy a few planes,[his one is not enough] ,fly to the regions,and so retain his knighthood.
All Jones happy.!

[Joshuatree]

To extrapolate that great idea further percy, Bob Jones is building a a new office high rise out of wood, wha if Shane Jones commissioned Boeing , or a NZ company to build some short haul passenger transporters out of laminated balsa wood seating say 20 people. Then you could launch these ultra light strong cheap gliders(with a built in pop up motor for light or wrong winds) with a wind up launcher, commonly used by gliding clubs and have a real green cheap service to the regions.;)

[Onion]

You can still get a grilled cheese and ham sandwich if you really want it and even a barbecued sausage in the outdoor terrace.

I reckon that an outdoor terrace is quite an innovative feature on a 787 -- hang on a second mate -- that is at the airport before they even board the plane! :confused:

[Beagle]

I reckon that an outdoor terrace is quite an innovative feature on a 787 -- hang on a second mate -- that is at the airport before they even board the plane! :confused:

It does all sound pretty good but they leave one important fact out for New Zealanders contemplating this route. The flight to Perth in the first place is nearly 7 hours and when you get there you'll already be pretty badly jet lagged. On the positive side of the ledger at least AIR will have their Dreamliner back on the Perth route soon enough so you can have an all Dreamliner trip to London if you like. Personally I think its hard to go past an Emirates A380 to get there although even in that case the size of their new business class seat is noticeably smaller than the older configuration.
You tried out their new business class seats yet Raz ? They say they're designed around a comfortable car seat...and that's all very well...for sitting on..but sleeping...hmmm.

[mikeybycrikey]

It's been rumoured for a while but maybe it's actually going to happen now. Looks like maybe there will be a new destination announced on Wednesday night

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12020367

Bye-bye Kapiti, Hello Chicago? Or maybe it's just Kaitaia like Shane Jones wants? Although maybe we shouldn't get too excited. Manila had a big reveal and then was quietly shelved.

[Beagle]

So...a third daily service to Singapore with revenue share partner Singapore airlines starting October, (source half year report), new flights to Taipai starting November and now another new destination starting soon, possibly Chicago. Hmmm, looks like pretty good growth to me.

[Benny1]

So...a third daily service to Singapore with revenue share partner Singapore airlines starting October, (source half year report), new flights to Taipai starting November and now another new destination starting soon, possibly Chicago. Hmmm, looks like pretty good growth to me.

Yeah, they seem to be back to growing the international destinations at the moment.
Chicago has been on the wish list for quite sometime, not sure if this will just cannibalize their existing USA routes...Houston was always promoted as the gateway to the east.... I thought they may have tried to build that market up to a year-round daily service before venturing further a field.

Each new International destination comes with huge start up cost's, so they really need to make sure they have their existing destinations performing before committing to new markets.

Only one 787 now still grounded, should be back in operation in the not too distant future.

[Beagle]

Yeah, they seem to be back to growing the international destinations at the moment.
Chicago has been on the wish list for quite sometime, not sure if this will just cannibalize their existing USA routes...Houston was always promoted as the gateway to the east.... I thought they may have tried to build that market up to a year-round daily service before venturing further a field.

Each new International destination comes with huge start up cost's, so they really need to make sure they have their existing destinations performing before committing to new markets.

Only one 787 now still grounded, should be back in operation in the not too distant future.

Thanks for the heads-up mate. You make a good point about Houston bring the gateway to the east. I chatted to Chris Luxon after the annual meeting last year, (Houston had those really bad floods at the time) and asked if they'd seen any drop off in demand because of the flooding. No, most pax use it as a transitioning point for eastern USA was the feedback he gave me.

It'll be interesting to see where too next won't it...pretty safe bet its not a new domestic destination :D

[Baa_Baa]

Uneasy that the chart breakout 27/2 and subsequent trading support at and above the 200DMA hasn't pushed through to the previous highs, before turning over today (first warning ... and RSI dropped 71-56, with MACD crossing down). The 50EMA and 200DMA are real close, with only a $1 in it, so should offer support, otherwise the descending medium term trend line 6/9-26/2 (previously resistance) is decent support around $3 + a bit. Assuming the Jones saga doesn't take root and spook the large international positions, or possibly even our local fund managers, who may worry about government intervention in their investment. Eyes on as usual with this cyclical and volatile share.

[Baa_Baa]

It'll be interesting to see where too next won't it...pretty safe bet its not a new domestic destination :D

I seem to remember, though not precisely tbh, that before the engines started blowing up and you sold out, that you made a meal of the profitability and importance of the dominance of domestic services routes to AIR's bottom line. They sure did (& do) cane the wallet of the local punters who simply want better alternatives than a bus or train to get from A to B in NZ, but lately (well, actually for some time now) it's looking like screw the regional routes and expand into the less profitable and more risky international destinations. Now you're back in, because apparently the whole engine explosion thing is behind us, it seems this shift in domestic-to-international strategy in your view is fair game?

[Benny1]

Thanks for the heads-up mate. You make a good point about Houston bring the gateway to the east. I chatted to Chris Luxon after the annual meeting last year, (Houston had those really bad floods at the time) and asked if they'd seen any drop off in demand because of the flooding. No, most pax use it as a transitioning point for eastern USA was the feedback he gave me.

It'll be interesting to see where too next won't it...pretty safe bet its not a new domestic destination :D

Pretty safe bet on Chicago I reckon....wouldn't be surprised if Obama shot a promo video for the new destination, to be used at this weeks launch and subsequent advertising..while he was here... The airline will want some payback for their "sponsorship" of his recent visit..

No..won't go sticking any money on a domestic destination!!:eek2:

[Baa_Baa]

In my view Jones is not going to let this go either, he will be dogged, persistently a thorn in the side of AIR, he's just found a political pathway to ascendence in NZ First to potentially the leader role by riling up the regions and their populace on the back of AIR neglecting the regions for reasons of shareholder hubris.

Playing the 'government owns AIR' card is political gold, NZ First are in government in case some forget, Jones is right despite is methods, AIR is wrong and disconnected, almost like they failed to see this coming and knee-jerk reacted in a way that will undo their credibility.

Jones will never let this opportunity for him, NZ First and the government go. He will pursue it to the bitter end, to empower his, NZ First and the governments pathway to sustain power. Think wine box enquiry for reference.

Any shareholder who underestimates or who does not understand political motivation to 'gain and retain' power, should revisit their own selfish motives. This will not go away. The only longer term outcome for shareholders in AIR is sustained doubt at best, capital loss probably, maybe even nationalisation or less likely government quits AIR and taxpayers are off the hook for AIR's next fiscal calamity.

[mikeybycrikey]

Jones will never let this opportunity for him, NZ First and the government go. He will pursue it to the bitter end, to empower his, NZ First and the governments pathway to sustain power. Think wine box enquiry for reference.

With the last few years of record profits, AIR have done a good job of managing the PR around that. Bonuses to stuff and other things have lead the headlines rather than the price-gouging that I would normally expect for such a public facing company as AIR

With Shane’s help it looks like AIR might be running out of runway on the PR wins unless the can come up with something quickly to counter him.

[winner69]

Really good operating stats for Feb

One of the best months for a while ....and international revenues have real positive momentum now

What was AIRs full year forecast again?

http://nzx-prod-s7fsd7f98s.s3-website-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/attachments/AIR/316042/276830.pdf

[Beagle]

Agreed Winner. Good solid numbers for February with load factors up to 83.1% v 81.6% in the PCP.

Baa - See post #13181.
I will add that by my calculations the N.Z. Govt will receive approximately $700 million dollars per annum in total from company tax, dividends and PAYE from AIR's 11,000 staff this year and for the foreseeable future every year. Pays for an awful lot of police, teachers, hospitals e.t.c. right across N.Z. including in the regions. Clipping the golden goose's wings makes no sense for anyone and as my mechanic once said to me, if somethings working like a well oiled Swiss watch, why fix it !

I have no further comment on the matter as its already had a very, very fulsome airing and doesn't warrant any more oxygen in my opinion.

Stuck for holiday idea's https://luxuryescapes.com/au
Atlantis deal in Dubai looks pretty amazing !

[Benny1]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/news/article.cfm?c_id=7&objectid=12020555

Funny how there is a travel article on Chicago in the NZ herald on the eve of an AIR announcement..... I'm sure it's just a coincidence;)

[peat]

That Chicago thing is well known , recall Luxon was grilled about it by Suzie Ferguson in that interview that was linked in this thread

Today I picked up some cheapies to go see my Mum in Aussie again soon, thanks Air NZ
However i chose to support Air Chatham for the connection because if you dont use it you lose it.

[Beagle]

So...a third daily service to Singapore with revenue share partner Singapore airlines starting October, (source half year report), new flights to Taipai starting November and now another new destination starting soon, possibly Chicago. Hmmm, looks like pretty good growth to me.

Confirmed http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1803/S00834/first-ever-air-service-between-new-zealand-and-chicago.htm

[iceman]

Air quick off the mark :-) https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/102690253/air-nzs-cheeky-offer-to-steve-smith-to-escape-the-heat-in-australia-after-scandal

[Robomo]

Air quick off the mark :-) https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/102690253/air-nzs-cheeky-offer-to-steve-smith-to-escape-the-heat-in-australia-after-scandal

It's been removed. But it was a brilliant piece of sledging at it's humerous best. Loved it

[winner69]

When you going to fly in one of these super efficient beauties beagle

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/boeing-787-10-dreamliner-features/

[Beagle]

All I will say is that AIR's seats in their Dreamliner's have been designed to take maximum possible advantage of the aircraft's other positive attributes, a real accountants configuration :blush: Great for investors though. Pack them in tight as sardines in a can and give them nice big windows, better air pressure and filtering and a nice quiet ride and hope they don't notice how jammed up they are...as cunning as a hungry beagle looking for a feed.

In AIR's defense though even Emirates are at it now. Their new business class seats look dramatically smaller than the previous configuration and they claim they're designed based on good car seats.. https://www.emirates.com/nz/english/experience/cabin-features/business-class.aspx Freeze that video at the 11 second mark and notice how the super slim model seems to occupy almost all the width of that seat...hmmm. Wonder how an overweight beagle would get on... Good car seats might be all good for sitting on but wait a minute...aren't you supposed to be able to sleep on them as well !

I think some of the business class seats are now a real con. Probably better to find the biggest economy seats on any airline to Europe, like Singapore airlines or Emirates and spend the money on genuine luxury accommodation when you get there.

[Beagle]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12022033

[Beagle]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12020790

Oh my goodness, look how narrow those seats are and he's a really slim guy...how on earth are portly beagle's supposed to travel in comfort...certainly not on an all darkness 17 hour endurance test like that :eek2:

[Raz]

All I will say is that AIR's seats in their Dreamliner's have been designed to take maximum possible advantage of the aircraft's other positive attributes, a real accountants configuration :blush: Great for investors though. Pack them in tight as sardines in a can and give them nice big windows, better air pressure and filtering and a nice quiet ride and hope they don't notice how jammed up they are...as cunning as a hungry beagle looking for a feed.

In AIR's defense though even Emirates are at it now. Their new business class seats look dramatically smaller than the previous configuration and they claim they're designed based on good car seats.. https://www.emirates.com/nz/english/experience/cabin-features/business-class.aspx Freeze that video at the 11 second mark and notice how the super slim model seems to occupy almost all the width of that seat...hmmm. Wonder how an overweight beagle would get on... Good car seats might be all good for sitting on but wait a minute...aren't you supposed to be able to sleep on them as well !

I think some of the business class seats are now a real con. Probably better to find the biggest economy seats on any airline to Europe, like Singapore airlines or Emirates and spend the money on genuine luxury accommodation when you get there.

Have not had to use them as they now upgraded us to first for the sector is standard for regular premium flyers...possibly they don't want us to see how bad they are Beagle..

[Beagle]

Have not had to use them as they now upgraded us to first for the sector is standard for regular premium flyers...possibly they don't want us to see how bad they are Beagle..

You lucky dog. Looks like us mere mortals are in for a serious endurance test long haul even flying business class now, with the possible exception of Singapore airlines. Wonder if there's a bit of value in AIR at $3.20...U.S. airlines had a good bounce overnight. Looking at about 35 cps in earnings this year so forward PE is 9.1. Plenty of new routes next year. Hmmm.

Interestingly as I suspected Emirates new and so called improved business class seats are really, really narrow and only 18.5 inch width, (less than AIR's premium economy) just half a centimeter more than Emirates economy, what a joke ! https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Emirates_Airlines/Emirates_Airlines_Airbus_A380_B.php

Compare those seat spec's with Singapore airlines business class https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Singapore_Air/Singapore_Air_Airbus_A380_C.php
a whopping 30 inch width, like a laz-z-boy recliner and 55 inch pitch..these are HUGE !

Little known fact and note for other solidly built dogs travelling to Europe. Singapore airlines economy seats at 19 inch width, (the widest in the industry) are wider that Emirates so called business class !!! at 18.5 inches, now ain't that something to think about...

[Raz]

You lucky dog. Looks like us mere mortals are in for a serious endurance test long haul even flying business class now, with the possible exception of Singapore airlines. Wonder if there's a bit of value in AIR at $3.20...U.S. airlines had a good bounce overnight. Looking at about 35 cps in earnings this year so forward PE is 9.1. Plenty of new routes next year. Hmmm.

Interestingly as I suspected Emirates new and so called improved business class seats are really, really narrow and only 18.5 inch width, (less than AIR's premium economy) just half a centimeter more than Emirates economy, what a joke ! https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Emirates_Airlines/Emirates_Airlines_Airbus_A380_B.php

Compare those seat spec's with Singapore airlines business class https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Singapore_Air/Singapore_Air_Airbus_A380_C.php
a whopping 30 inch width, like a laz-z-boy recliner and 55 inch pitch..these are HUGE !

Little known fact and note for other solidly built dogs travelling to Europe. Singapore airlines economy seats at 19 inch width, (the widest in the industry) are wider that Emirates so called business class !!! at 18.5 inches, now ain't that something to think about...

If business is not paying i would go Singapore Airlines, economy class is good enough, in addition you have a stop which works out around half way between here and Europe, just a better balanced trip than Dubai, first leg a mega long trip and then only seven hours second leg to mainland Europe.

[Marilyn Munroe]

If business is not paying i would go Singapore Airlines, economy class is good enough, in addition you have a stop which works out around half way between here and Europe, just a better balanced trip than Dubai, first leg a mega long trip and then only seven hours second leg to mainland Europe.

Take care when booking to fly into or out of Auckland with Lee Kuan Yew Airlines that you don't end up on a Cullen Airlines code share flight in thrombosis class.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Beagle]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/316363
I think this is a good move by AIR and some of those crusty old Virgin planes really are third rate and if people are booking AIR they want to travel on AIR not some old relic of a plane run by a company on its knees financially trading at just 22 cents per share.
Note Air ended this of their own volition http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/6a63bab9/air-nz-virgin-australia-to-end-seven-year-trans-tasman-alliance-in-october.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Air%20NZ%20Virgin%20Australia%20to%20 end%20seven-year%20trans-Tasman%20alliance%20in%20October&utm_content=Air%20NZ%20Virgin%20Australia%20to%20e nd%20seven-year%20trans-Tasman%20alliance%20in%20October+CID_76445692be7bb 7fdd0eee24e1ebbd2b8&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=httpwwwsharechatconzarticle6a63bab9air-nz-virgin-australia-to-end-seven-year-trans-tasman-alliance-in-octoberhtml


If business is not paying i would go Singapore Airlines, economy class is good enough, in addition you have a stop which works out around half way between here and Europe, just a better balanced trip than Dubai, first leg a mega long trip and then only seven hours second leg to mainland Europe.

Very good advice. Just got to get Mrs Beagle keen. Rumour has it there's a very nice hotel in Singapore that's good for a stopover :) https://www.marinabaysands.com/#PLSuOkdU8HdmZM5y.97

[Sideshow Bob]

Flown long-haul on a Dreamliner in Air NZ economy. Not recommended at all and I'm not the widest chassis around, with the dreaded 10 across. Flight attendants hate the narrow aisles also.

[Marilyn Munroe]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/316363


Be a rippa if Stralians can get a Cullen Airlines flight from Wagga Wagga to the Shaky Isles because of competition flying the ditch.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Beagle]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12026073

Virgin "the mighty company" trading at just 22 cents per share acting like a spurned lover and having a bit of a tantrum.
One wonders how much of all this is simply a result of the well known fact that the two CEO's of these companies don't like each other...
Anyway you all know I think Virgin is a third rate airline and AIR are better off not sullying the waters with their product on their schedule.
You book an AIR flight you expect an AIR N.Z. plane or one of a similar caliber, for instance Singapore airlines revenue sharing deal to Singapore.

[BlackPeter]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12026073

Virgin "the mighty company" trading at just 22 cents per share acting like a spurned lover and having a bit of a tantrum.
One wonders how much of all this is simply a result of the well known fact that the two CEO's of these companies don't like each other...
Anyway you all know I think Virgin is a third rate airline and AIR are better off not sullying the waters with their product on their schedule.
You book an AIR flight you expect an AIR N.Z. plane or one of a similar caliber, for instance Singapore airlines revenue sharing deal to Singapore.

Hey - but nothing wrong with a bit more local competition. Would love to see Tigerair criss-crossing our skies ;);

[Zaphod]

Flown long-haul on a Dreamliner in Air NZ economy. Not recommended at all and I'm not the widest chassis around, with the dreaded 10 across. Flight attendants hate the narrow aisles also.

I flew AKL-HNL-AKL a few months ago on a 787 and yes, the aisles are very narrow. I was hit by the cart a few times as well as the arms and legs of the FA's as they walked up and down the aisle. In terms of the seat I didn't have any issues, but larger built people definitely would.

3x4x3 seems to be the new norm amongst airlines in economy. Let's hope the vertical seat configuration never sees the light of day!

The 787 was however much nicer to fly in, and the improved pressure and humidity levels definitely made a difference.

[Beagle]

I flew AKL-HNL-AKL a few months ago on a 787 and yes, the aisles are very narrow. I was hit by the cart a few times as well as the arms and legs of the FA's as they walked up and down the aisle. In terms of the seat I didn't have any issues, but larger built people definitely would.

3x4x3 seems to be the new norm amongst airlines in economy. Let's hope the vertical seat configuration never sees the light of day!

The 787 was however much nicer to fly in, and the improved pressure and humidity levels definitely made a difference.

Very good and fair summary of the facts and I couldn't agree more about the vertical seats. I think all airlines are already pushing the envelope of what's humanely tolerable in economy on long haul to the very edge of what most people can possibly stomach.

Emirates dressing up mutton as lamb with their business class seats which are now no bigger than economy was about 7 years ago is a new and most unwelcome development from this leading airline. I really hope other airlines don't follow suit with their business class product otherwise us mere mortals, (that don't get bumped up to first class like some lucky dogs) will have no option but to suffer badly on long haul flights unless we can somehow stomach paying for first class ourselves :eek2:

[Benny1]

[QUOTE=Beagle;710075]https://www.nzx.com/announcements/316363
I think this is a good move by AIR and some of those crusty old Virgin planes really are third rate and if people are booking AIR they want to travel on AIR not some old relic of a plane run by a company on its knees financially trading at just 22 cents per share.
Note Air ended this of their own volition http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/6a63bab9/air-nz-virgin-australia-to-end-seven-year-trans-tasman-alliance-in-october.html?u (http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/6a63bab9/air-nz-virgin-australia-to-end-seven-year-trans-tasman-alliance-in-october.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Air%20NZ%20Virgin%20Australia%20to%20 end%20seven-year%20trans-Tasman%20alliance%20in%20October&utm_content=Air%20NZ%20Virgin%20Australia%20to%20e nd%20seven-year%20trans-Tasman%20alliance%20in%20October+CID_76445692be7bb 7fdd0eee24e1ebbd2b8&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=httpwwwsharechatconzarticle6a63bab9air-nz-virgin-australia-to-end-seven-year-trans-tasman-alliance-in-octoberhtml)

Heard a rumor this may happen on another forum and posted as such on here a couple of months or so ago...
AIR will be trying use their new A321NEO's as leverage to try to grab as many of Virgins passengers as they can...

Will mean less convenient departure times for passengers as they will all be leaving and departing at the same times, however expect some good airfares as they scrap it out to ether maintain or grow their market prospective shares.

IMHO...Virgin should take this on the chin and leave the Tasman, concentrate on the their core Aussie domestic market, and build relationships with their Asian owners and feed international passengers on to their domestic operations that way along with Delta from the USA...it will be nothing but an absolute bloodbath for them if they stay on the Tasman.
Going up a against a cashed up AIR and QAN along with other serving the Tasman will be very very hard for them...

They could try salvaging a code share agreement (at best with AIR) on Tasman flights (if AIR is interested that is..)

[Raz]

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/316363
I think this is a good move by AIR and some of those crusty old Virgin planes really are third rate and if people are booking AIR they want to travel on AIR not some old relic of a plane run by a company on its knees financially trading at just 22 cents per share.
Note Air ended this of their own volition http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/6a63bab9/air-nz-virgin-australia-to-end-seven-year-trans-tasman-alliance-in-october.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Air%20NZ%20Virgin%20Australia%20to%20 end%20seven-year%20trans-Tasman%20alliance%20in%20October&utm_content=Air%20NZ%20Virgin%20Australia%20to%20e nd%20seven-year%20trans-Tasman%20alliance%20in%20October+CID_76445692be7bb 7fdd0eee24e1ebbd2b8&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=httpwwwsharechatconzarticle6a63bab9air-nz-virgin-australia-to-end-seven-year-trans-tasman-alliance-in-octoberhtml



Very good advice. Just got to get Mrs Beagle keen. Rumour has it there's a very nice hotel in Singapore that's good for a stopover :) https://www.marinabaysands.com/#PLSuOkdU8HdmZM5y.97

no rumour, it is a good hotel especially if you want to take infinity pools to an extreme level...it's very surreal hanging off the edge looking out😊 happy about virgin, often if you want to maximise a weekend in aussie you had to take them at least one way...not a good image for AIR. although there must be more to it as AIR has not cared about that for a long time...

[Marilyn Munroe]

It would be tempting to think of Virgin(Under Arm Bowlers Division) as a busted flush across the Tasman.

However <speculation type="wild"> what if Lee Kuan Yew Airlines brought out Etihad and the small number of free float shareholders and zuched up Virgin to be their champion in au & nz.

All aboard for Tiger services from WLG and DUD and maybe (additional to Lee Kaun Yew's)CHC to SIN. Also what about Scoot double isles from AKL to SIN.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[workingdad]

sold up rest of Air shares held today (wasn't much to speak of to be honest). Overall gain 70% inc divvies over last 18 months or so. Still think its a good investment with imputated divvies going forward but just don't like the way labour government is going fiscally and the china US thing not to mention FEDs moves this year. Been sideways for a while and happy to lock in the gains.

time for a break but I don't see a sudden collapse happening, slow correction into bear territory I think is on the horizon with stimulus coming off but happy to sit out for a while and go shopping and not have to look at it for a bit :)

[Beagle]

sold up rest of Air shares held today (wasn't much to speak of to be honest). Overall gain 70% inc divvies over last 18 months or so. Still think its a good investment with imputated divvies going forward but just don't like the way labour government is going fiscally and the china US thing not to mention FEDs moves this year. Been sideways for a while and happy to lock in the gains.

time for a break but I don't see a sudden collapse happening, slow correction into bear territory I think is on the horizon with stimulus coming off but happy to sit out for a while and go shopping and not have to look at it for a bit :)

Congrats mate. If you're going shopping try the new 2018 V8 Mustang out, she's wild ride I can tell ya !!!

[Snow Leopard]

sold up rest of Air shares held today...
...but happy to sit out for a while and go shopping and not have to look at it for a bit :)

Should have got out at the $3.56 mark last July, I did drop the hint at the time.

As hints get missed I will be blunt:

Don't buy a Beagle.

9606

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Baa_Baa]

Should have got out at the $3.56 mark last July, I did drop the hint at the time.

As hints get missed I will be blunt:

Don't buy a Beagle.

9606

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

Prepare for a roasting. Maybe you've been away a bit too long, lost your touch a bit, the SP was a bit higher later and no one except a standard bollinger advocate would exit on a single day of weakness at the date you suggest. Albeit went lower later but recovered to a double top high 5/9/17 ... that was the real warning, not before.

Just another wind-up baiting the Beagle?

[Snow Leopard]

Prepare for a roasting. Maybe you've been away a bit too long, lost your touch a bit, the SP was a bit higher later and no one except a standard bollinger advocate would exit on a single day of weakness at the date you suggest. Albeit went lower later but recovered to a double top high 5/9/17 ... that was the real warning, not before.

Just another wind-up baiting the Beagle?

You are forgetting at least three TA truths:

Most TA is rubbish - even worse than FA;

TA is a broad art that has many forms and that can be applied on a diverse spectrum of timescales;

TA'ers are the sheep that dutifully follow the [smarter] market.

I may pop into ST again in a couple of weeks, till then
Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

[Beagle]

Sorry I am such a fat and full Beagle from trying to digest the biggest ever interim AIR dividend feed I cannot be bothered even trying to muster a little woof in response :) ...oh all right then...by popular request just one woof...all the other airlines give you huge fully imputed dividends don't they PT ?

[BlackPeter]

Sorry I am such a fat and full Beagle from trying to digest the biggest ever interim AIR dividend feed I cannot be bothered even trying to muster a little woof in response :) ...oh all right then...by popular request just one woof...all the other airlines give you huge fully imputed dividends don't they PT ?

Are the NZ imputation credits any good in Tibet (Xining City)?

[777]

Are the NZ imputation credits any good in Tibet (Xining City)?

Overseas shareholders normally get an adjusted dividend reflecting the imputation effect. I have never worked out the arithmetic on it though.

[Beagle]

Are the NZ imputation credits any good in Tibet (Xining City)?

LOL, who cares :)

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/virgin-australias-future-aeroflots-turnaround-qantas-settles-and-more-ng-214418

[workingdad]

Congrats mate. If you're going shopping try the new 2018 V8 Mustang out, she's wild ride I can tell ya !!!

Does a 70 429 with over 700hp count?

[workingdad]

Congrats mate. If you're going shopping try the new 2018 V8 Mustang out, she's wild ride I can tell ya !!!


Should have got out at the $3.56 mark last July, I did drop the hint at the time.

As hints get missed I will be blunt:

Don't buy a Beagle.

9606

Best Wishes
Paper Tiger

I dumped most the holdings last year but can’t recall when and left small amount in to hedge the bet a bit but 22c in divvies plus imputation credits since then brings it back up beyond the 3.56 mark on my books. Either way happy with the ride

[Beagle]

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/air-nz-flight-forced-to-return-to-auckland/ar-AAvDZUV?li=AAaeXZz&ocid=spartandhp

Must be a slow news day. Nobody ever had to make an unscheduled stop at their mechanic's to get something fixed on their car...YAWN

Something more interesting to read if you're as sick of the endless ATM debate as I am - https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/survivors-of-the-wahine-disaster-tell-their-story-50-years-on/ar-AAvE4ln?ocid=spartandhp

[iceman]

Air NZ named 2nd best airline in the World by Tripadvisor, Singapore Airlines came 1st https://www.tripadvisor.co.nz/TravelersChoice-Airlines

Well done AIR

[Benny1]

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278019/air-new-zealand-trans-tasman-service-changes-in-nw18/

Changes to Tasman services announced post the DE-coupling from Virgin...

Interesting (maybe) that no A321 NEO's in this announcement...Are AIR still unsure when these will be delivered, due to issues with the new engine's?

All up Tasman capacity is up around 15%..with the A321's still to come.

[Beagle]

Air NZ named 2nd best airline in the World by Tripadvisor, Singapore Airlines came 1st https://www.tripadvisor.co.nz/TravelersChoice-Airlines

Well done AIR

Considering that's the people's choice and voted on by many thousands of users rather than some arbitrary panel of experts that's high praise indeed.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/company-news/air-nz-announces-new-trans-tasman-routes/ar-AAvEBs3?ocid=spartandhp
Interesting given Virgin's outburst the other day. Pretty clear this is AIR's way of giving Virgin "the bird"

[Baa_Baa]

Air NZ named 2nd best airline in the World by Tripadvisor, Singapore Airlines came 1st https://www.tripadvisor.co.nz/TravelersChoice-Airlines

Well done AIR

Silver medal eh, not quite the same as Gold, but OK I guess for all the effort. Might not quite make the same impression on history. AIR needs to smash Sing Air out of the park, be the best on the planet. Well, after they deal with Shane Jones .. annoying fellow that he his casting dispersions on our national airline because of their "rhetoric" around social responsibility and even going as far as not-quite-but-really-close slandering the whole board who of course now include our own ex-Prime Minister and folk hero John Key, soon to be Chairman I reckon.

[Jaa]

The new trans-tasman routes and flights are targeting the routes previously flown by Virgin, they will struggle to hang on. Won't be surprised to see Virgin replaced by Tiger in a year or two.

Air NZ seems to have prepared well for the end of the alliance. They opened new or revamped lounges in Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney and Perth over the last 3 years and use Qantas's lounge in Adelaide. Also saw a few Air NZ ads on TV when I was in the Gold Coast last month as they work hard at building up the brand and direct bookings in Australia.

The new routes should also help alleviate the Air Auckland label they have!

Key alliance stat for me though, was that Air were making 80% of the bookings but doing only 70% of the flying. If they can get that to 80% or 90% and make Virgin a marginal player they should see strong profit growth on the Tasman and on onward flights to North and South America.

[Beagle]

Air putting on a LOT of new capacity in the first half of FY19 including this announced today, Chicago, 3rd daily flight to Singapore in conjunction with revenue sharing partner Singapore airlines, (really could you ask for a better partner, opps sorry I digress) and Taipei...pretty sure I've forgotten one or two of the new / expanded frequency routes as frankly there's so many of them !

[Filthy]

sell pressure building.....

9617

[blackcap]

Terrible service from AIR yesterday. My partner was on a flight from Auckland to Wellington, was already 1.5 hours late, got to WEllington, wind got up and could not land, had to return to Auckland and there was told that there are no hotels available, domestic terminal was shut (Koru too) and so they had to sleep in the International terminal to try and stay warm. Booked on a flight back this afternoon. Not really good enough is it, or is it? Are domestic carriers to be viewed as nothing more than a quick bus service and if the bus is late or does not arrive, well bad luck?

[winner69]

Terrible service from AIR yesterday. My partner was on a flight from Auckland to Wellington, was already 1.5 hours late, had to return to Auckland and there was told that there are no hotels available, domestic terminal was shut (Koru too) and so they had to sleep in the International terminal to try and stay warm. Booked on a flight back this afternoon. Not really good enough is it, or is it? Are domestic carriers to be viewed as nothing more than a quick bus service and if the bus is late or does not arrive, well bad luck?

**** happens eh .....but you do get the impression passengers are just a commodity

Had a mate on a flight AKL/WLG last evening ...left late and then did 9 big laps off Paraparaumu when the lightning close the airport but did manage to get in ....then the wind got up and they closed the airport for the night.

[blackcap]

**** happens eh .....but you do get the impression passengers are just a commodity

Had a mate on a flight AKL/WLG last evening ...left late and then did 9 big laps off Paraparaumu when the lightning close the airport but did manage to get in ....then the wind got up and they closed the airport for the night.


Indeed $^%#%# happens and for the price you can almost expect it to be a commodity. That is why I ask the question. Just like going cattle class on long haul. Business class these days is cheaper than cattle class was 25 years ago (in real terms) so you should not really expect much from economy.

[Zaphod]

We were trapped on the plane at the gate for 8 hours once in the US on an AirNZ flight. No hotels available, ground crew on strike, mix up with the fuel trucks, you name it they had it. At least they served dinner while we waited, and we received a lovely stop over in Fiji and a $5 voucher which bought us no more than a pie at the airport. That was in Business Premier too!

[Marilyn Munroe]

The NZ Herald has an interesting article on the Cullen Airlines Virgin(Under Arm Bowlers Division) divorce.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-herald-in-depth/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504170&objectid=12026605

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[Beagle]

Terrible service from AIR yesterday. My partner was on a flight from Auckland to Wellington, was already 1.5 hours late, got to WEllington, wind got up and could not land, had to return to Auckland and there was told that there are no hotels available, domestic terminal was shut (Koru too) and so they had to sleep in the International terminal to try and stay warm. Booked on a flight back this afternoon. Not really good enough is it, or is it? Are domestic carriers to be viewed as nothing more than a quick bus service and if the bus is late or does not arrive, well bad luck?

I've lived in Auckland for nearly 50 years. The storm that hit on Tuesday night was the worst there's ever been by quite some considerable margin. Vast areas of the power network went down and some people simply gave up living in cold frigid homes and checked into hotels with power. (We sucked it up and toughed it out for 3 bitterly cold nights and days without power). I understand the Auckland runway was a mess with debris. Nothing AIR or anyone else could do.

[blackcap]

I've lived in Auckland for nearly 50 years. The storm that hit on Tuesday night was the worst there's ever been by quite some considerable margin. Vast areas of the power network went down and some people simply gave up living in cold frigid homes and checked into hotels with power. (We sucked it up and toughed it out for 3 bitterly cold nights and days without power). I understand the Auckland runway was a mess with debris. Nothing AIR or anyone else could do.

I do realise that. What concerned my partner most was the lack of communication from AIR. There was no "sorry but we are unable to provide accommodation because...", they just had 200 people que up in line and ask the same questions. No real contingency planning in place whatsoever. To get blankets and pillows you needed to ask. Again 200 people in que asking for the same thing. It would be better if they were more proactive and handed them out upon disembarking. The plane left Auckland at about 8.30pm, went to Wellington, did not land and went back to Auckland and got in at about 10.20pm. Too late really to go and bother friends so AIR would be from a PR perspective better to front foot this. But that is my one gripe. I know you cannot expect much from an Airline, just like you cannot expect much from a bus company if the weather plays up.

[BlackPeter]

I've lived in Auckland for nearly 50 years. The storm that hit on Tuesday night was the worst there's ever been by quite some considerable margin. Vast areas of the power network went down and some people simply gave up living in cold frigid homes and checked into hotels with power. (We sucked it up and toughed it out for 3 bitterly cold nights and days without power). I understand the Auckland runway was a mess with debris. Nothing AIR or anyone else could do.

Not sure. How hard would it have been to open the domestic lounge (and allow all passengers to access) and provide at least a bit more comfortable environment for passengers? I guess if you are bringing passengers back late in the evening due to no landing options elsewhere and you know all hotels are booked out, than it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that these passengers might need a place to sleep somewhere. Air NZ had this space (domestic lounge) but choose to close it.

[Beagle]

Not sure. How hard would it have been to open the domestic lounge (and allow all passengers to access) and provide at least a bit more comfortable environment for passengers? I guess if you are bringing passengers back late in the evening due to no landing options elsewhere and you know all hotels are booked out, than it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that these passengers might need a place to sleep somewhere. Air NZ had this space (domestic lounge) but choose to close it.

I personally find it difficult to believe every hotel and motel in Auckland was booked out.

[dobby41]

I personally find it difficult to believe every hotel and motel in Auckland was booked out.

All the ones AIR could afford maybe.
Don't want to waste too much money.

[blackcap]

I personally find it difficult to believe every hotel and motel in Auckland was booked out.

Me too, but like my partner alluded to, at 10.20pm AIR probably cannot be bothered organising 200 odd people in hotels and the transport and cost that this entails.....

[777]

I personally find it difficult to believe every hotel and motel in Auckland was booked out.

With the weather there was probably more returns or cancelled flights, both for AIR and Jetstar which would fill hotels and motels.

[Beagle]

Air NZ named 2nd best airline in the World by Tripadvisor, Singapore Airlines came 1st https://www.tripadvisor.co.nz/TravelersChoice-Airlines

Well done AIR

There's always going to be cases due to extreme weather events where an airline could have theoretically done better but to achieve this outcome as a result of average scores posted by many many thousands of happy customers is testament to the fact that in the vast majority of cases the airline is doing extremely well indeed.

[Marilyn Munroe]

It amazes me how airlines including Cullen Airlines continue to make such a pigs breakfast dealing with passengers involved in cancelled diverted or delayed flights.

It is common to hear passengers angry, not with the actual delay or cancellation itself, but the way they were told changing and contradictory information by counter staff or simply ignored.

I know this is a problem involving the complexities of human behavior and the vagaries of airline operations but the airlines that does this better than all the rest would surely fly up the customer satisfaction ratings and attract more customers.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn

[dobby41]

It amazes me how airlines including Cullen Airlines continue to make such a pigs breakfast dealing with passengers involved in cancelled diverted or delayed flights.

It is common to hear passengers angry, not with the actual delay or cancellation itself, but the way they were told changing and contradictory information by counter staff or simply ignored.

I know this is a problem involving the complexities of human behavior and the vagaries of airline operations but the airlines that does this better than all the rest would surely fly up the customer satisfaction ratings and attract more customers.

Boop boop de do
Marilyn
Indeed - problems always happen, it is how they are dealt with the counts in the end.

[iceman]

Yet they have just been voted at No 1 on a Colmar Brunton Reputation Index for NZ companies. Must be doing something right !

[winner69]

Hmm.....from twitter ....and @stevebiddle a bit of an aviation guru

Steve Biddle (@stevebiddle)
13/04/18, 8:53 PM
Interesting speculation this evening that @FlyAirNZ may be about to be hit with more Dreamliner issues due to yet another newly discovered RR Trent 1000 issue. Already AKL-PER flights cancelled next week.

[winner69]

RR made announcement to LSE saying more issues