How often do you look at your total portfolio?

[JeremyALD]

Hey all

I've started to think I look at my share balances too often and this encourages rather reactive decisions. Whilst it's important to keep an eye on shares and SP I'm curious as to how often you look at your overall share portfolio (value and performance) and how often you look at individual SP.

Personally I have an app on my phone and I find myself looking at the SP of my stocks at least 3 times a day. I don't think it's particularly helpful as I'm not a day trader.

My question is how often do you review the SP of your stocks and the balance of your portfolio.

[winner69]

Jeremy me old mate - have you ever read Taleb's book Fooled by Randomness

I always thought this story was pretty good. It's all about a dentists portfolio and why its much more pleasurable not to look at your portfolio too often.

The dentists portfolio was like yours - giving a 15% return with a 10% volatility (or uncertainty) per annum translates into a 93% probability of success in any given year. But seen at a narrow time scale, this translates into a mere 50.02% probability of success over any given second. Over the very narrow time increment, the observation will reveal close to nothing. Yet the dentist’s heart will not tell him that… At the end of every day the dentist will be emotionally drained. A minute-by-minute examination of his performance means that each day (assuming eight hours per day) he will have 241 pleasurable minutes against 239 unpleasurable ones. These amount to 60,688 and 60,271, respectively, per year.

Now realize that if the unpleasurable minute is worse in reverse pleasure than the pleasurable minute is in pleasure terms, then the dentist incurs a large deficit when examining his performance at a high frequency. Consider the situation where the dentist examines his portfolio only upon receiving the monthly account from the brokerage house. As 67% of his months will be positive, he incurs only four pangs of pain per annum and eight uplifting experiences. This is the same dentist following the same strategy. Now consider the dentist looking at his performance only every year. Over the next 20 years that he is expected to live, he will experience 19 pleasant surprises for every unpleasant

Get the gist?

The moral of the story is that the narrower the time frame at which you're monitoring your chosen instrument, the greater the degree of randomness in the price fluctuations you're witnessing, which means you will invariably receive negative feedback much more often and are far more likely to change your strategy or exit trades that may have been sound all along.

[blackcap]

Jeremy me old mate - have you ever read Taleb's book Fooled by Randomness

I always thought this story was pretty good. It's all about a dentists portfolio and why its much more pleasurable not to look at your portfolio too often.

The dentists portfolio was like yours - giving a 15% return with a 10% volatility (or uncertainty) per annum translates into a 93% probability of success in any given year. But seen at a narrow time scale, this translates into a mere 50.02% probability of success over any given second. Over the very narrow time increment, the observation will reveal close to nothing. Yet the dentist’s heart will not tell him that… At the end of every day the dentist will be emotionally drained. A minute-by-minute examination of his performance means that each day (assuming eight hours per day) he will have 241 pleasurable minutes against 239 unpleasurable ones. These amount to 60,688 and 60,271, respectively, per year.

Now realize that if the unpleasurable minute is worse in reverse pleasure than the pleasurable minute is in pleasure terms, then the dentist incurs a large deficit when examining his performance at a high frequency. Consider the situation where the dentist examines his portfolio only upon receiving the monthly account from the brokerage house. As 67% of his months will be positive, he incurs only four pangs of pain per annum and eight uplifting experiences. This is the same dentist following the same strategy. Now consider the dentist looking at his performance only every year. Over the next 20 years that he is expected to live, he will experience 19 pleasant surprises for every unpleasant

Get the gist?

The moral of the story is that the narrower the time frame at which you're monitoring your chosen instrument, the greater the degree of randomness in the price fluctuations you're witnessing, which means you will invariably receive negative feedback much more often and are far more likely to change your strategy or exit trades that may have been sound all along.

Great story and good book that by Taleb, he makes a lot of sense. His Black Swan book is also very good reading. shows how even the experts with all the PhD's in the world can get is so wrong. Psychology is so fascinating when embedded in markets and market behaviour.

Jeremy... if you are a long term buy hold type character... no need to look at your portfolio any more than twice a year. Although in this day and age that is just about impossible with all the apps and that kind of thing. I now even get a monthly update from my Kiwisaver (useless as that is) when previously I got it annually. Its the time we live in when ppl want everything now unfortunately.

[JeremyALD]

Great story and good book that by Taleb, he makes a lot of sense. His Black Swan book is also very good reading. shows how even the experts with all the PhD's in the world can get is so wrong. Psychology is so fascinating when embedded in markets and market behaviour.

Jeremy... if you are a long term buy hold type character... no need to look at your portfolio any more than twice a year. Although in this day and age that is just about impossible with all the apps and that kind of thing. I now even get a monthly update from my Kiwisaver (useless as that is) when previously I got it annually. Its the time we live in when ppl want everything now unfortunately.

Thanks guys and Winner! Great advice. I think I want to be more of a long term holder. I've been buying and selling a fair amount the past six months and although I'm up about 15% I've also sold a few really good stocks far too soon that I wouldn't of sold if I was looking at share price less often, AIR and ATM spring to mind. I also sold down on THL after a drop and now that's back up at 3.90. still have quite a few though. think I'll try and view less often, although I naturally want to check all the time! My problem is I'm probably stuck between a regular trader and long term holder lol.

[percy]

I try to do my research before I buy.
I then wait for the company's next result,before deciding whether to sell,hold or buy more.
I prefer adding to shares I already own.
If I am unsure about anything about the business,I go back and read the company's previous announcements.If I am still unsure, I will often ring the company.
I also ring the company if I am happy with the result.Rang Todd Hunter at Turners today,to tell him I was really pleased with what they are achieving..Think he was rather surprised to be speaking to someone who did not have any questions to ask.!!!!!
Made the conversation more relaxed,and interesting for me.!!!

[winner69]

Great story and good book that by Taleb, he makes a lot of sense. His Black Swan book is also very good reading. shows how even the experts with all the PhD's in the world can get is so wrong. Psychology is so fascinating when embedded in markets and market behaviour.

Jeremy... if you are a long term buy hold type character... no need to look at your portfolio any more than twice a year. Although in this day and age that is just about impossible with all the apps and that kind of thing. I now even get a monthly update from my Kiwisaver (useless as that is) when previously I got it annually. Its the time we live in when ppl want everything now unfortunately.

Taleb's Antifragile is pretty good ....but you need to be dedicated to get to the end

[BeeBop]

I prepare a full net worth report every quarter. Update all account balances, devalue our cars, update cold hard emergency cash balances, shares, property values and so on etc (ROI, ROCE and annualised returns).

Really worthwhile exercise as keeps my other half well informed and me more comfortable with our complex net of finances should I meet my maker sooner than ever planned.

Great also, to track the growth over the timeframe...have done this in a variety of forms since 2000...although increments were super small at the start. A few years ago we considered paying for financial advice until I realised that we were doing just fine the way things are.

HOWEVER, I update my shares through my numbers app (auto update in price) several times a day when the markets are going well. Turn it all off and ignore when I wake up to bad market news!

[FIsaver]

Hey all

I've started to think I look at my share balances too often and this encourages rather reactive decisions. Whilst it's important to keep an eye on shares and SP I'm curious as to how often you look at your overall share portfolio (value and performance) and how often you look at individual SP.

Personally I have an app on my phone and I find myself looking at the SP of my stocks at least 3 times a day. I don't think it's particularly helpful as I'm not a day trader.

My question is how often do you review the SP of your stocks and the balance of your portfolio.

To be honest I look every day. But I've yet to react to the result. More than anything it's just part of reading the business / market news and then seeing how the index funds have reacted to that news.

Probably a bad thing to do but i'm a long term holder and still early on. I would see a crash as a good thing at the moment, and find some $ to buy more more more.

[alistar_mid]

I prepare a full net worth report every quarter. Update all account balances, devalue our cars, update cold hard emergency cash balances, shares, property values and so on etc (ROI, ROCE and annualised returns).

Really worthwhile exercise as keeps my other half well informed and me more comfortable with our complex net of finances should I meet my maker sooner than ever planned.

Great also, to track the growth over the timeframe...have done this in a variety of forms since 2000...although increments were super small at the start. A few years ago we considered paying for financial advice until I realised that we were doing just fine the way things are.

HOWEVER, I update my shares through my numbers app (auto update in price) several times a day when the markets are going well. Turn it all off and ignore when I wake up to bad market news!


same I have a net worth spreadsheet I update monthly with pretty much everything on it.

However I check everything pretty much daily - shares, managed funds, harmoney.
Part of the reason is because I'm in a boring as F job that I derive minimal satisfaction from so some of my self worth (that I should be getting from my job) is tied up in watching my investments go up.

When I was allocating capital to harmoney I would have it open all day at work lol, also now I have a few speculative ASX penny stocks that i watch through out the day.

I know, I know, most of my stuff is 5 year + time frames so I should only be checking once a week, and checking a few times a day doesn't do jack. I just need to find something to occupy my time and energy during the day lol so I don't compulsively check everything.

[winner69]

same I have a net worth spreadsheet I update monthly with pretty much everything on it.

However I check everything pretty much daily - shares, managed funds, harmoney.
Part of the reason is because I'm in a boring as F job that I derive minimal satisfaction from so some of my self worth (that I should be getting from my job) is tied up in watching my investments go up.

When I was allocating capital to harmoney I would have it open all day at work lol, also now I have a few speculative ASX penny stocks that i watch through out the day.

I know, I know, most of my stuff is 5 year + time frames so I should only be checking once a week, and checking a few times a day doesn't do jack. I just need to find something to occupy my time and energy during the day lol so I don't compulsively check everything.

At least you get some satisfaction from your job - even if it's minimal

Hope you not working for the government or anything

But at least you getting paid for being your own Investment Manager

[alistar_mid]

At least you get some satisfaction from your job - even if it's minimal

Hope you not working for the government or anything

But at least you getting paid for being your own Investment Manager

nah I do work of course, have to earn my wage - got in top 5% on perfomance review for a pay rise last year. was still a small pay rise though lol
But on any micro break or whatever im tabbing to check my investments - or doing stuff like posting here as is the case now.

Investment income (rent, p2p interest, dividends) is forecast to be > than wage earnings this year. Something I'm pretty excited about.

[BeeBop]

nah I do work of course, have to earn my wage - got in top 5% on perfomance review for a pay rise last year. was still a small pay rise though lol
But on any micro break or whatever im tabbing to check my investments - or doing stuff like posting here as is the case now.

Investment income (rent, p2p interest, dividends) is forecast to be > than wage earnings this year. Something I'm pretty excited about.

I used to hate my job (and it really was a good one)....said to myself one year (2006), must work smarter because I just can't work harder....I did that and got to "retire" us to a one person income family in 2010....and now a further seven years on we earn more and have more net worth that we could have had if I had not changed our approach. Moving to just one income earner freed us up to make some really interesting life changes.

Enjoy checking on your prices frequently, keep planning and plotting....just don't make rash decisions based on a lunchtime quick price update!

[alistar_mid]

I used to hate my job (and it really was a good one)....said to myself one year (2006), must work smarter because I just can't work harder....I did that and got to "retire" us to a one person income family in 2010....and now a further seven years on we earn more and have more net worth that we could have had if I had not changed our approach. Moving to just one income earner freed us up to make some really interesting life changes.

Enjoy checking on your prices frequently, keep planning and plotting....just don't make rash decisions based on a lunchtime quick price update!

I'm not really a rash decision maker, but yeah planning plotting forecasting tabulating extrapolating modelling make the hours tick away

[GTM 3442]

Different things need different amounts of looking at.

So I look at some things daily, some things weekly, some things monthly.

It depends on the thing.

[nocomment]

i was just thinking about this yesterday - its so easy to check stock prices every 5 minutes esp if you have a boring job but then you have your emotions dictated by rises & falls and its getting a bit much.

like the OP im not a day trader but not necessarily content to just set and forget my portfolio - i like to think im somewhere in between but then in some ways it starts to feel like im basically at the casino and the only winner is really asb for all the brokerage they make out of me

ive only been investing in shares more seriously in the last 6 months and right now im actually in the negatives (due to some poor choices with WHS and TEN) fortunately balanced out to some extent by some strong performing NZ companies but while the lure of making easy profits is addictive (thanks AIR) I know its no different from gambling in a lot of ways - yeh i know you can do your research, follow trends, review history etc but theres still a lot of unknowns

how do you find that sweet spot between checking prices all the time but not missing those opportunities to sell high/buy low? just do some research and make trades using order limits?

[Hoop]

At least once every day and many times each day if my stocks are reaching critical buy/sell trigger points..I don't automate my stops I use the manual method as NZSE volume is low and stock prices are prone to getting whipsawed with shake outs and fake outs...
Been doing it this way for about 19 -20 years now, ever since I swapped from being a long term FA'er to variable term TAer..

[alistar_mid]

i was just thinking about this yesterday - its so easy to check stock prices every 5 minutes esp if you have a boring job but then you have your emotions dictated by rises & falls and its getting a bit much.

like the OP im not a day trader but not necessarily content to just set and forget my portfolio - i like to think im somewhere in between but then in some ways it starts to feel like im basically at the casino and the only winner is really asb for all the brokerage they make out of me

ive only been investing in shares more seriously in the last 6 months and right now im actually in the negatives (due to some poor choices with WHS and TEN) fortunately balanced out to some extent by some strong performing NZ companies but while the lure of making easy profits is addictive (thanks AIR) I know its no different from gambling in a lot of ways - yeh i know you can do your research, follow trends, review history etc but theres still a lot of unknowns

how do you find that sweet spot between checking prices all the time but not missing those opportunities to sell high/buy low? just do some research and make trades using order limits?

Nah despite me checking all the time it doesn't make me do any rash trading decisions, or to try and time the market.

It makes me think of better ways to do my forecasting and reporting of my portfolio, to re balance the cashflows, ie the rent, harmoney interest, my wage coming and re balance the AP's going into my ETF's and managed funds. Ie can I increase them and live off X amount per month, have I been good with spending this month etc - although about to head out on the booze now with 2 mates so could end up an expensive one.

Then I have revolving credit at the bank so I often think is there a snowball effect investment I want to throw a good chunk at, decisions decisions...

[Meextr]

Nah despite me checking all the time it doesn't make me do any rash trading decisions, or to try and time the market.

It makes me think of better ways to do my forecasting and reporting of my portfolio, to re balance the cashflows, ie the rent, harmoney interest, my wage coming and re balance the AP's going into my ETF's and managed funds. Ie can I increase them and live off X amount per month, have I been good with spending this month etc - although about to head out on the booze now with 2 mates so could end up an expensive one.

Then I have revolving credit at the bank so I often think is there a snowball effect investment I want to throw a good chunk at, decisions decisions...

As you mention snowball effect, are you aware of anyone that has made money on that or had the opportunity to see growth with a company listing being bought out etc.

[alistar_mid]

As you mention snowball effect, are you aware of anyone that has made money on that or had the opportunity to see growth with a company listing being bought out etc.

nah not yet, I have only been in snowball effect stuff a few months

although back in the day I brought into 42 below, and that ended up being brought out.

[Grimy]

I do an overall investment spreadsheet update about 3-monthly (4 times a year, not 3 times a month!). I find that often enough to see where things are headed and if I need to make some adjustments. Most of my investments are now bonds, notes, perps, etc.
I do check my share holdings most days, but have been selling these down recently as prices have been on the rise (probably too soon on some, but it helps me sleep......).
My wife is reaching retirement age this year and although I'm a few years off we are tracking towards an early retirement for me as long as our investments don't drop too much, so locking in some gains for certainty.

[alistar_mid]

hmm part of the reason I look at it heaps is because I have AP's going into most of my funds each month.

The static ones I look at once a month as I update my spreadsheet.

For people that don't have AP's going through regularly, do you still check often?

[JBmurc]

Yes daily for me as well unless I'm away from internet ..

[couta1]

Yes daily for me as well unless I'm away from internet .. With a smart phone, I'm never away from the internet, and never away from the market ,except when in an out of coverage area. PS-Probably an addict.

[JBmurc]

With a smart phone, I'm never away from the internet, and never away from the market ,except when in an out of coverage area. PS-Probably an addict.

with my job I can be away from the net for upwards of 10+ days at a time ...but mostly only 5-6 days

Is a pain I would like to change in time with a lifestyle job to suit >>