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blackcap
10-09-2017, 03:34 PM
When nature calls, you just gotta go whether it be in the sea, river, lake or snow, no harm done. JT you might like to start a crusade against things that really do affect nature, like the zillions of discarded cigarette butts that find there way into the ocean, full of toxic chemicals, not to mention all that discarded plastic and other rubbish.

Exactly Couta1, when I mentioned pissing in the snow it was when I was tramping, thoroughly enjoying nature. As a keen tramper I tramp in winter often enough and sometimes you just have to piss in the snow. Nothing wrong with that at all, and that does not make me sick, selfish or ignorant.

jonu
10-09-2017, 03:41 PM
Anyone who gets a great enjoyment out of what nature provides who then goes and literally despoils it is pretty sick/selfish/ignorant in my book.

It's what both Hillary and Tensing did atop Everest. When you gotta go, you gotta go. As long as you aren't carrying Giardia there's not a lot wrong with it.

fungus pudding
10-09-2017, 03:47 PM
Exactly Couta1, when I mentioned pissing in the snow it was when I was tramping, thoroughly enjoying nature. As a keen tramper I tramp in winter often enough and sometimes you just have to piss in the snow. Nothing wrong with that at all, and that does not make me sick, selfish or ignorant.

Obviously Joshua tree doesn't know the effects of cold snow on the ageing male bladder. Perhaps he's only three.

winner69
10-09-2017, 04:29 PM
An old Maori friend of mine once told me if you piss on a newly planted tree it will grow into a big strong tree

minimoke
10-09-2017, 04:43 PM
An old Maori friend of mine once told me if you piss on a newly planted tree it will grow into a big strong tree
Works with Lemon Trees

fungus pudding
10-09-2017, 04:50 PM
Works with Lemon Trees

Is that what gives them the bitter taste ?

winner69
10-09-2017, 05:57 PM
If there ever was any doubt that Wellington needed a 12,000 seat venue today that doubt was put to rest today

Jacinda would have filled such a venue - instead had to make do with the St James (though some said it was St Jacinda)

She frickin awesome that Jacinda

tim23
10-09-2017, 06:18 PM
It looked pretty good on TV tonight too - were you there?
If there ever was any doubt that Wellington needed a 12,000 seat venue today that doubt was put to rest today

Jacinda would have filled such a venue - instead had to make do with the St James (though some said it was St Jacinda)

She frickin awesome that Jacinda

westerly
10-09-2017, 06:39 PM
Works with Lemon Trees

perhaps you should start another thread --again?

westerly

Joshuatree
10-09-2017, 06:43 PM
JA is certainly charismatic, positive, aspirational, and I do think she'd make a great leader but, what are the policies she's promoting? And it's the same around the world, we're electing leaders, not policies, Trump, Macron, Trudeau, KimJong Un, �� But seriously, maybe it's time to elect a president, then a parliament, similar to the French system, then we could have Jacinda's personality with Nationals policies, but then I've always thought bacon ice cream would be awesome, but will probably leave a bitter taste in my mouth ����, but who'd have thought salted caramel would work

If you haven't brought yourself up to speed this simple layout shows you bullfrog.

Policies 2017 - NZ Herald Insights (https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&ved=0ahUKEwiO58rajprWAhXImJQKHXbXA2QQFghZMAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Finsights.nzherald.co.nz%2Farticle %2Fpolicies-2017%2F&usg=AFQjCNHsf6SshUymGF1Dwa7lRauyawNf7w)

fungus pudding
10-09-2017, 07:18 PM
If you haven't brought yourself up to speed this simple layout shows you bullfrog.

Policies 2017 - NZ Herald Insights (https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&ved=0ahUKEwiO58rajprWAhXImJQKHXbXA2QQFghZMAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Finsights.nzherald.co.nz%2Farticle %2Fpolicies-2017%2F&usg=AFQjCNHsf6SshUymGF1Dwa7lRauyawNf7w)

No details on her CGT scheme, and there are plenty of traps if it's not designed.
No info on what the asset and wealth taxes will be, although almost certainly we'll see the return of inheritance tax, death duties and gift duties.
Several other policies which I can't be bothered listing where no details have been given.. Danger ahead.

Joshuatree
10-09-2017, 10:16 PM
No danger for any decent tax paying citizen. danger for anyone rorting the system.:t_up: Be fearful rorters.
The usual stale national agenda from fungus who sees danger everywhere; thats a sad negative state to be in but you're just pushing the party line so i guess you are not really that way i hope. Go on make up some more be creative use your negativity to come up with; how about a "miserable tax" for negative thinking, negative attitudes defeatist, sore losers ,people.This is nationals last desperate tactic coming methinks you've preempted them. Just remember its not the real you, i hope!:confused:

couta1
11-09-2017, 02:56 AM
No danger for any decent tax paying citizen. danger for anyone rorting the system.:t_up: Be fearful rorters.
The usual stale national agenda from fungus who sees danger everywhere; thats a sad negative state to be in but you're just pushing the party line so i guess you are not really that way i hope. Go on make up some more be creative use your negativity to come up with; how about a "miserable tax" for negative thinking, negative attitudes defeatist, sore losers ,people.This is nationals last desperate tactic coming methinks you've preempted them. Just remember its not the real you, i hope!:confused: Actually your very wrong here, decent tax paying citizens are actually the ones in danger of being rorted by Taxcinda's with her raft of new taxes. Those rorting the system will continue to do so using creative accounting methods that will always be one step ahead of any current system.

fungus pudding
11-09-2017, 05:37 AM
I'd like to see Winston First come out and firmly state he will not go into coalition with a party who has not released their tax proposals prior to the election - but he wouldn't of course because that would be hypocritical for someone who won't even advise in advance of who he wants to play with.

Good on him. He's done it. Of course he won't mean it, but at least he's calling her bluff.

Rep
11-09-2017, 06:50 AM
No danger for any decent tax paying citizen. danger for anyone rorting the system.:t_up: Be fearful rorters.
The usual stale national agenda from fungus who sees danger everywhere; thats a sad negative state to be in but you're just pushing the party line so i guess you are not really that way i hope. Go on make up some more be creative use your negativity to come up with; how about a "miserable tax" for negative thinking, negative attitudes defeatist, sore losers ,people.This is nationals last desperate tactic coming methinks you've preempted them. Just remember its not the real you, i hope!:confused:

Part of the justification for getting rid of gift duty was that the cost of legal avoidance was actually higher than tax collected (effectively a deadweight loss to economy apart from lawyers and tax advisors). The same applied to estate duty which is still in place but levied at rate of 0%.

There are also many legitimate reasons why homes are sitting in family trusts particularly around property relationship matters, segregation of inheritances so they aren't intermingled with relationship property and so settlors of trusts can use their own discretion in how they want their property directed in a way that a will cannot achieve any more.

Of course, ideologically if one thinks that intergenerational wealth is abhorrent then this is all an anathema.

In terms of decent tax payers, we are obligated to pay what we legally owe - not a penny less and I don't think the government are spending it wisely enough to be paying a penny more.

iceman
11-09-2017, 06:54 AM
Good on him. He's done it. Of course he won't mean it, but at least he's calling her bluff.

Yes and it makes sense what he says, basically what many on here have been saying. Taxinda knows pretty much what she wants to do but is intent on bluffing voters by saying she will wait for the Cullen Tax Review Committee to deliver their findings.
Interestingly Peters also says he wants assurances on Labour's water policy and assurances from National that they will not give Maori special water rights. Well if he sticks to that, then Labour is out with their water tax "policy".

He correctly says Taxinda's rise is similar to that of Macron in France (who has already lost most of his support), allowed by uncritical media not asking any detailed questions.

artemis
11-09-2017, 06:57 AM
Good on him. He's done it. Of course he won't mean it, but at least he's calling her bluff.

Not quite, but still a potential game changer. He said on the wireless this morning that Labour should be telling voters what they are voting for beforehand, but in any case they will have to tell NZ First if it is needed to help form a government. He also said that drip feeding exemptions indicates that Labour must know what will not be exempted.

fungus pudding
11-09-2017, 07:49 AM
Not quite, but still a potential game changer. He said on the wireless this morning that Labour should be telling voters what they are voting for beforehand, but in any case they will have to tell NZ First if it is needed to help form a government. He also said that drip feeding exemptions indicates that Labour must know what will not be exempted.

Definitely changes the rules. Taxcinda sticking to her position of not disclosing details before the election - means Winston can only coalesce with National, or stay out altogether. Makes it difficult for Labour to hit 50%. This really puts it in Winston's hands. Could produce a short term minority govt.

winner69
11-09-2017, 07:51 AM
Definitely changes the rules. Taxcinda sticking to her position of not disclosing details before the election - means Winston can only coalesce with National, or stay out altogether. Makes it difficult for Labour to hit 50%. This really puts it in Winston's hands. Could produce a short term minority govt.

OMG - thinking of another election next year is not nice

fungus pudding
11-09-2017, 08:22 AM
OMG - thinking of another election next year is not nice

No. He'll almost certainly go with National if for once he decides to be a man of his word. Certainly seems to be all over with Labour.
So if he hold his position his share of vote will go up considerably, meaning National, Act and Winston will be well over 50%.
eZ will be along shortly to remind me I'm wrong.

blackcap
11-09-2017, 08:27 AM
No. He'll almost certainly go with National if for once he decides to be a man of his word. Certainly seems to be all over with Labour.
So if he hold his position his share of vote will go up considerably, meaning National, Act and Winston will be well over 50%.
eZ will be along shortly to remind me I'm wrong.

The market seems to think you are right as well. THe price on a Labour MP has moved from 1.50 to 1.90 overnight.

Joshuatree
11-09-2017, 08:38 AM
Definitely changes the rules. Taxcinda sticking to her position of not disclosing details before the election - means Winston can only coalesce with National, or stay out altogether. Makes it difficult for Labour to hit 50%. This really puts it in Winston's hands. Could produce a short term minority govt.

Wisely doing a review will take a year or so to carefully come up with the right package and it will have to be whats best for NZ as the next election will be close and labour won't be able to achieve much with one term, join the dots here fearful ones.Esp TATATATAXFEARING fungustaxpuddingtaxter and TAXTAXTAXICETAXTAXTAXicemantaximan

iceman
11-09-2017, 09:02 AM
JT there is no "right" or "wrong" tax package for NZ. Appointing a group of similarly minded people, chaired by Michael Cullen, with a mandate to leave a whole lot of options of the agenda, will achieve nothing other than give Taxinda a report that she has pre-ordered and pre-designed to all intents and purposes. Being so vague about and taking voters as shallow, may well be her downfall. Winston has realised this is going down well in "the regions" !!

minimoke
11-09-2017, 09:03 AM
Wisely doing a review will take a year or so to carefully come up with the right package and it will have to be whats best for NZ as the next election will be close and labour won't be able to achieve much with one term, join the dots here fearful ones.Esp TATATATAXFEARING fungustaxpuddingtaxter and TAXTAXTAXICETAXTAXTAXicemantaximan
You are assuming its broke.
PAYE , easy and relatively fair. Only thing fairer is a flat tax for all.

GST, easy and relatively fair. The more you buy the more you pay. Improvement would be to lower it

Corporate tax, easy and relatively fair. Way of improving is to lower it to allow for more business investment or return to shareholders who cover the business risk.

CGT already in place with bright line test.

Petrol tax - could do with reducing that and shift some burdon to cyclists so they contribute to expensive cycleways.

Tobacco tax - reduce as they are already paying for their health over their shorter lives.

Those are just a few of the main ones.

Given we have heard nothing on these from labour the only assumption is new and increased taxes

Joshuatree
11-09-2017, 09:47 AM
Ive learnt assuming creates at least as many mistakes as accuracies.
Have you've forgotten bill has raised tax 15 times!
Bright line test increased to 5 years i think; now its got teeth:)
re tobacco tax reduction, i can see the funny side there but its such an expensive disease to manage with slow debilitating cancer deaths. As BP points out there are many royalties and taxes around.

Jay
11-09-2017, 09:58 AM
Re CGT - have we not already got that - it is called Income tax, it's just that a some property "traders"/"developers" don't declare the profit as income, same with some Share "investors" and the IRD has not go the manpower to look into all of these people and/or the definition needs clarifying so most of the "grey" disappears!

fungus pudding
11-09-2017, 10:05 AM
Re CGT - have we not already got that - it is called Income tax, it's just that a some property "traders"/"developers" don't declare the profit as income, same with some Share "investors" and the IRD has not go the manpower to look into all of these people and/or the definition needs clarifying so most of the "grey" disappears!

Agreed. But introducing a specific CGT for companies, shares, and real estate which she intends to do will pacify the envious.

Joshuatree
11-09-2017, 10:12 AM
" will pacify the envious."

Another window into your soul taxifungus. You want to stay on your self styled privileged pedestal
Don't worry , you may ,but you will be asked to contribute just little more for all those less fortunate kiwis trying to have basic needs met.
"Let them eat Mc Donalds" i hear you say?

tim23
11-09-2017, 06:20 PM
Many of you noticed that Bill English has Nikki Kaye smiling by his side when shown recently on TV what's happened to Paula Bennett? Or is it a ploy the get men voting for National to counter the Jacinda effect?

jonu
11-09-2017, 07:22 PM
Many of you noticed that Bill English has Nikki Kaye smiling by his side when shown recently on TV what's happened to Paula Bennett? Or is it a ploy the get men voting for National to counter the Jacinda effect?

Are you implying Jacinda is indeed lipstick on a pig Tim? Big call but it does have its merits. :p

Joshuatree
11-09-2017, 07:52 PM
National are desperately trying everything to get over the line. They have plenty of media savvy psychology types spinning for them, Ralston,Joyce(thanks for your hole :) crosby/textor prob, hosings etc.Whos paying for all this spin, us taxpayers fungus?

777
11-09-2017, 07:58 PM
National are desperately trying everything to get over the line. They have plenty of media savvy psychology types spinning for them, Ralston,Joyce(thanks for your hole :) crosby/textor prob, hosings etc.Whos paying for all this spin, us taxpayers fungus?

Of Labour are trying all tricks to get across the line as well. Keep up JT.

couta1
11-09-2017, 08:07 PM
Re CGT - have we not already got that - it is called Income tax, it's just that a some property "traders"/"developers" don't declare the profit as income, same with some Share "investors" and the IRD has not go the manpower to look into all of these people and/or the definition needs clarifying so most of the "grey" disappears! Share "investors" don't have to declare capital gain as income under current law, whilst share traders do have to declare profit made with intent. Agree the current law of intent is far too grey. IMO shares should have say a one year minimum hold criteria to be free from any form of tax, regardless of intent at time of purchase. Those in the business of share trading come under standard income tax requirements.

Joshuatree
11-09-2017, 08:37 PM
Of Labour are trying all tricks to get across the line as well. Keep up JT.

Yes i think Labour are much more savvy this time maybe because they have helen clarks old PRman.
But show me where they are lying and smearing and behaving badly ethically like national have in some areas;joyce and bill for example with this hole thats swallowing them up.

Joshuatree
11-09-2017, 08:40 PM
Share "investors" don't have to declare capital gain as income under current law, whilst share traders do have to declare profit made with intent. Agree the current law of intent is far too grey. IMO shares should have say a one year minimum hold criteria to be free from any form of tax, regardless of intent at time of purchase. Those in the business of share trading come under standard income tax requirements.

Yes like water use attracting royalty which goes towards improving and conserving the resource i think you are right and thats another idea who's time has come, sorting out the trader or investor gray area.

minimoke
11-09-2017, 08:45 PM
IMO shares should have say a one year minimum hold criteria to be free from any form of tax, regardless of intent at time of purchase. Those in the business of share trading come under standard income tax requirements.
I could probably live with something like that. Perhaps the same as the rental property brightline test.

Joshuatree
11-09-2017, 08:56 PM
No teeth in the current bright line.Pushing it out to 5 years does this.

iceman
11-09-2017, 10:39 PM
No teeth in the current bright line.Pushing it out to 5 years does this.

Why not a 10% capital gains tax on absolutely everything we sell and don't reinvest ?

minimoke
14-09-2017, 11:53 AM
I'm getting worried for Labour. Apparently today's call to delay the new taxes was jacindas alone.

Seem s to me there is a lit of "I" in her speeches. Very little of "we". So how does her slogan "let us do this" work?

Its looking more and more like "i will do this" plus "when i have thought about it a bit more"

minimoke
14-09-2017, 11:58 AM
And just do we are clear she still wants to increase our personal taxes around $1000 in April next year.

jonu
14-09-2017, 12:07 PM
I'm getting worried for Labour. Apparently today's call to delay the new taxes was jacindas alone.

Seem s to me there is a lit of "I" in her speeches. Very little of "we". So how does her slogan "let us do this" work?

Its looking more and more like "i will do this" plus "when i have thought about it a bit more"

"Captain's Call" but then sent the boy to deliver it! Poor old Grant...What a hospital pass from the captain. You never caught Ritchie doing that. Straight up the guts when he needed to. Unless of course there is disagreement in the ranks and Grant made a vice captains call.

fungus pudding
14-09-2017, 12:11 PM
"Captain's Call" but then sent the boy to deliver it! Poor old Grant...What a hospital pass from the captain. You never caught Ritchie doing that. Straight up the guts when he needed to. Unless of course there is disagreement in the ranks and Grant made a vice captains call.

Mutiny in the wind.

minimoke
14-09-2017, 12:15 PM
Unless of course there is disagreement in the ranks and Grant made a vice captains call.
I thought Kelvin Davis was vice captain.

Mind you, labour changes leaders so often i can't keep up with it all.

fungus pudding
14-09-2017, 12:19 PM
I thought Kelvin Davis was vice captain.


That was last week.

jonu
14-09-2017, 01:37 PM
I think the captain's call on the possible introduction of a cgt and other tax reforms before the next election and now backtracking to their previous policy, will have cooked Labour's goose.

Agreed Bjauck. Pass the plum sauce

Bjauck
14-09-2017, 01:37 PM
I think the captain's call on the possible introduction of a cgt and other tax reforms before the next election and now backtracking to their previous policy, will have cooked Labour's goose.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11922278

fungus pudding
14-09-2017, 02:31 PM
I think the captain's call on the possible introduction of a cgt and other tax reforms before the next election and now backtracking to their previous policy, will have cooked Labour's goose.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11922278

Maybe not. It puts them back to being able to have a fling with Winston First. Without him they had no chance, and they'd know only too well that the greens are staring into their own deep grave.

Joshuatree
14-09-2017, 02:38 PM
Think was the best way to counteract the piles of steaming mud national have thrown; no matter how untrue some sticks. Sad that if Labour succeeds, there will be delays in actioning some much needed policies but great in giving us people the decision in 2020.

Joshuatree
14-09-2017, 02:42 PM
Maybe not. It puts them back to being able to have a fling with Winston First. Without him they had no chance, and they'd know only too well that the greens are staring into their own deep grave.

Talking in past tense fungus; can you tell us what the date is today, what day it is. Its a swinging rollercoaster with more gyrations to come. Be int in what centre bet odds are and colmar brunton poll tonite.

jonu
14-09-2017, 02:59 PM
Talking in past tense fungus; can you tell us what the date is today, what day it is. Its a swinging rollercoaster with more gyrations to come. Be int in what centre bet odds are and colmar brunton poll tonite.

Do you mean Jacinda has more backflips/Captain's Calls to make?

Bjauck
14-09-2017, 03:09 PM
Think was the best way to counteract the piles of steaming mud national have thrown; no matter how untrue some sticks. Sad that if Labour succeeds, there will be delays in actioning some much needed policies but great in giving us people the decision in 2020. I agree that there needs to be tax reform. However the captain's call to make any changes they decide upon within the first term without putting them to the electorate was a mistake imo.

jonu
14-09-2017, 03:09 PM
As this is an investor's forum I reckon it's fair to ask whether we would put up with the level of competency on display from Labour from a company director or CEO? Labour's CEO falls on his sword, passes to the bright young thing who makes smiley positive noises about a new way of doing things, generally promises the earth with little detail on how to achieve it, and then in the first sign of adversity, flips back to the previous leader's position.

Would this give you confidence as an investor in the Labour company?

iceman
14-09-2017, 04:09 PM
So Jacinda's "Captains Call" that she will not stand by and avoid making hard calls on necessary tax changes (as directed by Cullen) without voter approval in her first term meant nothing. Just empty slogans. At the first sign of head winds she goes running back to Angry Andy's more considered position. Her credibility, if she ever had it, is now completely gone. Steven Joyce and Winston Peters must both be smiling seeing her crumble like that as soon as they apply some pressure.

fungus pudding
14-09-2017, 04:24 PM
Grant Robertson in answer to Chris Lynch on radio stated they weren't bothered at all by poor poll result last week. Nothing to do with their change of policy. A minute later he claimed they've been listening to the public. Can't follow that one.

minimoke
14-09-2017, 05:01 PM
. A minute later he claimed they've been listening to the public. Can't follow that one.
I havent heard the public shouting for major tax law reform over the past 9 years. And i am aure the public would like their tax break next year - but jacinda has gone deaf there.

Joshuatree
14-09-2017, 05:36 PM
Grant Robertson in answer to Chris Lynch on radio stated they weren't bothered at all by poor poll result last week. Nothing to do with their change of policy. A minute later he claimed they've been listening to the public. Can't follow that one.

Rogue dodgy poll; remember Joyce used to be associated with the Newshub radio stations and made his $millions there selling them,IMO. Did they just poll rural?

jonu
14-09-2017, 05:51 PM
Rogue dodgy poll; remember Joyce used to be associated with the Newshub radio stations and made his $millions there selling them,IMO. Did they just poll rural?

Sounds like a slanderous smear there JT. Careful now. And while you're at it, wake up and smell the coffee. Jacinda just sold her principles down the river by reversing her "Captain's Call". Boy that term is going to haunt her career.

Joshuatree
14-09-2017, 11:03 PM
IMO jonu. Whats your view on why these crazy swings?
Great decison by the captain changing course to avoid cape foul wind. Andrew Little had it right in the first place.
Very sad to see all the mud throwing . National have been relentlessly fearmongerring and unfortunately some folks have believed the lies(some mud always sticks) but at least they are consistent in their underhand plays..

minimoke
15-09-2017, 05:43 AM
?
Great decison by the captain changing course to avoid cape foul wind. thats captain pugwash in her boat the Red pig, merrily sailing the high seas figuring out how to take our money from us.

777
15-09-2017, 07:13 AM
Was it the "Captains" decision though or was that decision made by the old guard?

Joshuatree
15-09-2017, 07:51 AM
Whatever;nationals monstering mud throwing has unwittingly put labour in a stronger position to win this imo.
Re the old guard.Andrew Littles experience with nationals behaviour in the past shows he had the right tactic.

777
15-09-2017, 07:55 AM
Whatever;nationals monstering mud throwing has unwittingly put labour in a stronger position to win this imo.
Re the old guard.Andrew Littles experience with nationals behaviour in the past shows he had the right tactic.

So why did 77% of the population not want anything to do with him?

Joshuatree
15-09-2017, 08:10 AM
77% of national i presume .Because he is an honest man with the highest morals.

blackcap
15-09-2017, 08:14 AM
77% of national i presume .Because he is an honest man with the highest morals.

77% of the population JT. Labour were only polling 23% with him in charge... Because he looks and acts Angry and has no charisma would be my bet.

Joshuatree
15-09-2017, 08:22 AM
Agree he is not leadership material, but ethics and morals and conduct , leading by example on how to behave.

fungus pudding
15-09-2017, 09:06 AM
77% of national i presume .Because he is an honest man with the highest morals.


and the personality of a dish-cloth.

Joshuatree
15-09-2017, 09:07 AM
Wouldn't know, i don't talk to mine;)

fungus pudding
15-09-2017, 09:43 AM
Wouldn't know, i don't talk to mine;)

That's not what I've heard. :D

Joshuatree
15-09-2017, 09:47 AM
You hear voices:scared:

minimoke
15-09-2017, 10:57 PM
Catching up on BackBenchers tonight. Willie Jackson (for Labour - how desperate were they to put that old hack back on the list!) says it is Labours aim to bring the average house price for Auckland City down to $500,000. I am not sure if I have ever heard such an outrageous wealth destruction ambition

Baa_Baa
16-09-2017, 09:21 AM
"Why would anyone with half a brain and even the smallest dose of political nous tell voters that a controversial housing and land tax would be developed in secret and behind closed doors, and it just might be introduced as law without any kind of public mandate or vote."

Duncan Garner spells it out here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/96845144/duncan-garner-captain-arderns-tax-radar-goes-awol-in-the-stardust

IAK
17-09-2017, 07:26 PM
Jacinda is a breath of fresh air - young, energetic and bright, but the new-tax policy was a bad call, even Brian Edwards was underwhelmed.... http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2017/09/labour-new-tax-plan-a-helluva-lot-to-ask/

fungus pudding
17-09-2017, 07:33 PM
Jacinda is a breath of fresh air - young, energetic and bright, but the new-tax policy was a bad call, even Brian Edwards was underwhelmed.... http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2017/09/labour-new-tax-plan-a-helluva-lot-to-ask/

She might have to backtrack on the cancellation if she needs to appease the greens according to Shaw on q and a this morning.

Joshuatree
18-09-2017, 10:54 PM
Whatever happened to honest Bill; corrupted by power.

But what is National saying to its rural support base? It’s not just that Labour is a tax and spend party, or that Labour’s water tax will cripple good honest farmers. Bill English told the nation on TVNZ’s Q&A (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a)yesterday morning that the consequence of the water policies of the “opposition parties” was to “slaughter the dairy herd”. He then said, “The next thing they’ll be talking about: depopulate the cities, because they cause water pollution too.”
This, by the way, was shortly after he’d denied he was leading a campaign of lies and scaremongering. Whatever happened to Honest Bill?
New Zealand doesn't have an urban-rural divide – but National's trying its hardest to create one (https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/18-09-2017/new-zealand-doesnt-have-an-urban-rural-divide-but-nationals-trying-its-hardest-to-create-one/)

Bjauck
19-09-2017, 07:37 AM
He was on the defensive. When questioned about how much National had be doing in the face of deteriorating water quality, I think he was " implying" the only other option, to have resulted in better water quality, would have been slaughter and depopulation! So Bill English was definitely using classic scare tactics.

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/english-raises-prospect-slaughtered-cows-depopulated-cities-ck-207780

Sgt Pepper
19-09-2017, 07:52 AM
He was on the defensive. When questioned about how much National had be doing in the face of deteriorating water quality, I think he was " implying" the only other option, to have resulted in better water quality, would have been slaughter and depopulation! So Bill English was definitely using classic scare tactics.

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/english-raises-prospect-slaughtered-cows-depopulated-cities-ck-207780

I am rather surprised that Bill English has not been asked probing questions about his role in fronting secret discussions with the Iwi Leaders Group, starting in 2015, concerning proprietary rights for Maori over water. Honest Bill or duplicitous Bill??

jonu
19-09-2017, 01:15 PM
I am rather surprised that Bill English has not been asked probing questions about his role in fronting secret discussions with the Iwi Leaders Group, starting in 2015, concerning proprietary rights for Maori over water. Honest Bill or duplicitous Bill??

More like informed Bill. He has obviously thought through the issues that Jacinda and crew don't even comprehend.

jonu
19-09-2017, 01:17 PM
Jacinda is a breath of fresh air - young, energetic and bright, but the new-tax policy was a bad call, even Brian Edwards was underwhelmed.... http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2017/09/labour-new-tax-plan-a-helluva-lot-to-ask/

That is quite extraordinary coming from Brian Edwards. The same Brian Edwards that media trained Helen Clark and was so tight with her he was at her house on election night.

Joshuatree
19-09-2017, 01:30 PM
We do know what happened to honest Bill; he met a Mr Key and scaremongering has been an arrow in his quiver ever since imo. When can one trust such a person in any situ let alone leading your country.:eek2: Not me.

minimoke
19-09-2017, 03:19 PM
I'm not comfortable with Labour making Teina Poras compensation an election issue. Why are they bringing in individuals into their arguments? (JacInda's grandfather, her aunt now Pora) The policy issue is about government having up to date guidelines for people wrongfully imprisoned and what this means. That is people subsequently found not guilty and the quantum of compo due to them for each year in prison and associated costs in getting to that point of resolution. Might encourage the police/crown to stop making up dodgy evidence.

Likewise Pike River. Its not about mine re-entry. Its about going into unsafe environments and limiting culpability when known risks have been managed.

Sgt Pepper
19-09-2017, 04:52 PM
More like informed Bill. He has obviously thought through the issues that Jacinda and crew don't even comprehend.

"Informed Bill".... yeah right.

minimoke
03-10-2017, 12:16 PM
I think she is wonderful. Her use of mass media to create a heroic and idealistic image through her personality is inspiring . The flattery and praise unquestioningly heaped upon her is well earnt.

So I was unsurprised today to see her wanting to respect the voter support that a Party brings to the negotiating table (“We do need to respect the votes that the Greens bring to the table”). She will be aware of course that National brings 46% of that voter support so no doubt she will give them the greatest amount of respect.

Jacinda, Dear Leader, went onto say ""I have had it suggested to me that they ( the Greens) can simply sit on the cross benches because they are easier to deal with. I've said that I don't think that's a fair way to treat their support. ...Leaving them on the outer is not fair in my view." If fairness is the name of the game then I think we can see a National led government coming up. Which is good because I think Bill English is wonderful.

Joshuatree
03-10-2017, 12:23 PM
Never truer word said in jest.:t_up:
Barry Soper: NZ politics playing out like Tinder (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11929033)

minimoke
03-10-2017, 12:59 PM
Never truer word said in jest.:t_up:
Barry Soper: NZ politics playing out like Tinder (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11929033)
That is quite a disrespectful post. Tinder reflects a small part of the diversity we should be looking at when trying to set up up a threesome. It could be that Grindr might be quite the tool to use to locate Winston and James as they both seem to be playing hard to get at the moment.

But respect is what its all about about. And you have to marvel at how Jacinda will treat with near equal respect a party that has seen itself shed nearly 50% of its support by unwinning 130,000 votes or freeing up 7 seats in Parliament. Even NZ First left 2 extra seats so that others can enjoy our parliament. Clearly it is only fair that these parties should offer up these extra seats while in opposition and then get to sit in Government ones.

fungus pudding
03-10-2017, 01:11 PM
That is quite a disrespectful post. Tinder reflects a small part of the diversity we should be looking at when trying to set up up a threesome. It could be that Grindr might be quite the tool to use to locate Winston and James as they both seem to be playing hard to get at the moment.

But respect is what its all about about. And you have to marvel at how Jacinda will treat with near equal respect a party that has seen itself shed nearly 50% of its support by unwinning 130,000 votes or freeing up 7 seats in Parliament. Even NZ First left 2 extra seats so that others can enjoy our parliament. Clearly it is only fair that these parties should offer up these extra seats while in opposition and then get to sit in Government ones.

Precisely. Good on you for recognising the generosity of these two splendid parties.

Joshuatree
03-10-2017, 01:40 PM
Only fair MM? Come on.!! In national we are dealing with a party with no principles. Bill is happy to throw dead cats on the table and swallow dead rats like oysters with maybe a couple of small bites before they slide down.Splendid indeed.

Major von Tempsky
03-10-2017, 02:19 PM
Why do you keep quoting 46% as the support level for National?

It's 47% when you add in ACT as obviously National is going to give ACT the elbow in Epsom next time!

minimoke
03-10-2017, 02:40 PM
In national we are dealing with a party with no principles. Bill is happy to throw dead cats on the table and swallow dead rats like oysters with maybe a couple of small bites before they slide down.Splendid indeed.
I think it only reasonable for me to share with you one of the lessons I leant while in the Joycamp.

It is unright to make disparaging statements against a group of people who hold basic human rights. Such as those who belong to a certain race or ethnic origin or hold a certain political belief. It is double unright to make a disparaging statement about a whole group of people. If you do you will, like me, end up banished to serve time in hard labor until you have learnt to modify your views.

Joshuatree
03-10-2017, 03:24 PM
Well that must include the media too then where those words came from unless you object to oysters i was creative there.;) I agree with the media who have used those accurate descriptions atp imo..
Your passive aggressive protest ; what will it achieve mm? Plenty of bloggs etc where you can vent all you want ?

minimoke
03-10-2017, 06:29 PM
Your passive aggressive protest ; what will it achieve mm?
Hark - did you hear that noise? I think it was the sound of offence going right over the top of my head.

Baa_Baa
03-10-2017, 06:49 PM
Seeing the two most recent banned members go head to head is a refreshing interlude to the coalition negotiations that we're all waiting for. Careful not to escalate the rhetoric in case you're not around to debate the process and politics soon to emerge. Keep your cool, it's about to unfold and we have much to talk about.

minimoke
03-10-2017, 08:24 PM
Careful not to escalate the rhetoric in case you're not around to debate the process and politics soon to emerge. Keep your cool, it's about to unfold and we have much to talk about.
I will be remaining unbanned as I am the new improved compliant poster who neither gives offence or can be offended - so never any complaints from me