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View Full Version : Will Metiria Turei illegal acts affect the Greens



minimoke
04-08-2017, 06:00 AM
Bwahahaha. The hypocricy of it all. Benefit fraud (alleged) and loads of people back her. She seems to think its OK to suck off the tax payer teat as a young mum so no surprise she choose politics.

While I think she should face the full wrath of the law (and receive the usual wet bus ticket slap) I cant see it impacting the Green vote

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 06:20 AM
Bwahahaha. The hypocricy of it all. Benefit fraud (alleged) and loads of people back her. She seems to think its OK to suck off the tax payer teat as a young mum so no surprise she choose politics.

While I think she should face the full wrath of the law (and receive the usual wet bus ticket slap) I cant see it impacting the Green vote

Benefit fraud - admitted.

minimoke
04-08-2017, 06:35 AM
Benefit fraud - admitted.
Admitted is different from guilty. Wait for the lawyers to get around the technicalities

Oh- and we should add in electoral fraud with registering so she can vote for a mate. Must try that one myself to get out of brownlees electorate!

King1212
04-08-2017, 06:42 AM
Heard that fraud officer is checking her ac n going to prosecute her.....

jonu
04-08-2017, 07:54 AM
I'm still wondering what her real reason for revealing this at this time was.

Did she think she could put some more heat on Paula Bennett by doing this? Or was she aware someone would out her first?.

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 07:59 AM
Admitted is different from guilty.



Yes, but it eliminates the requirement to dance around every utterance by adding 'alleged'.

craic
04-08-2017, 08:11 AM
It gets thicker and thicker. According to this mornings news she was flatting with he mother part of the time and another part with the father of her child but she was only using that address so that she could vote for a friend who was standing in that electorate - but she wasn't actually living there.. Christine Rankin, on interview, pointed out that they regularly prosecuted people for this type of fraud and that MT would have filled in many false declarations during the period. In my view, prosecution is inevitable but it's unlikely to be resolved before the election.

Joshuatree
04-08-2017, 09:00 AM
You'd need to prosecute thousand and thousands more of people who were/are stuck in actual poverty traps and need/ed to do something to survive; feed the kids etc. Its bennett who is not acknowledging her possible worse fraud that needs to be investigated. Its white collar tax fraud that needs to be investigated far more; i mean home detention for stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars more!! Its the auditor general arguably the most powerful man in the land only going when forced too which is a scary thought to think that such a person was prepared to stay there!

Major von Tempsky
04-08-2017, 09:28 AM
But surely terminal stupidity is the real issue? The electoral roll shows her living at the address with the father of her children and her mother wile claiming benefits?

People that stupid should not be leading political parties. She needs to resign with that sort of evidence against her.

minimoke
04-08-2017, 09:35 AM
I'm picking she'll do a todd Barclay. Take the pay until the elections and then disappear to a new life outside parliament.

minimoke
04-08-2017, 09:37 AM
You'd need to prosecute thousand and thousands more of people who were/are stuck in actual poverty traps and need/ed to do something to survive; feed the kids etc. !
Metiria had time to go on protest marches so she had time to work and pull herself out of the "poverty trap" which obviously wasnt a trap but a lifestyle.

RGR367
04-08-2017, 09:43 AM
RESIGNing would be too honourable for her to do, I think. But hopefully not.

minimoke
04-08-2017, 11:11 AM
I'm picking she'll do a todd Barclay. Take the pay until the elections and then disappear to a new life outside parliament.
Well i got that wrong. Obviuosly the snout is too secure in the trough

minimoke
04-08-2017, 11:15 AM
I'm waiting for metirias story of poverty of morals and poverty of obeying laws she is entrusted in making.

More flakeyness from the greens. They should grow a spine and bin her. Says a lot about a party where 50% of them in a poll back her.

minimoke
04-08-2017, 11:24 AM
Obviously not bright enough to be a minister. Even in her 20's didn't consider any risk with bonking the flat mate without contraception.

artemis
04-08-2017, 01:19 PM
Labour / Greens have a decent chance at forming a government this election. Ms Turei has said she won't be looking to be a minister. That sounds to me as if Labour has put the hard word on about that. That will limit the damage to the alliance, as otherwise it will be front and centre of every interview and leaders' debate. Maybe still will, as there is considerable hypocrisy in her previous calls for resignations, stand downs etc.

Admitted welfare fraud and electoral fraud should really be a bridge too far. But she has managed to stay in her roles so far

She will be hoping no further public admissions need be made. But a lot of people knew her and her living arrangements back in the day ....

Baa_Baa
04-08-2017, 01:46 PM
But surely terminal stupidity is the real issue? The electoral roll shows her living at the address with the father of her children and her mother wile claiming benefits?

People that stupid should not be leading political parties. She needs to resign with that sort of evidence against her.

How many 23 year olds also do stupid things? As a good professor said on RNZ this morning, this act of stupidity is on the low end of stupid things 23 year olds do.

Hardly imo enough to have her resign, but certainly brings into question her morality and integrity. Arguably it's more stupid divulging her fraudulent past than having actually done it. Anyway, it's backfired on her and the Greens, with major parties distancing themselves from her in a cabinet role and damaging the Labour / Greens love-in.

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 01:57 PM
How many 23 year olds also do stupid things? As a good professor said on RNZ this morning, this act of stupidity is on the low end of stupid things 23 year olds do.

Hardly imo enough to have her resign, but certainly brings into question her morality and integrity. Arguably it's more stupid divulging her fraudulent past than having actually done it. Anyway, it's backfired on her and the Greens, with major parties distancing themselves from her in a cabinet role and damaging the Labour / Greens love-in.
Depends why she did it, which is hardly likely to be to vote for her friend.

minimoke
04-08-2017, 02:11 PM
How many 23 year olds also do stupid things? As a good professor said on RNZ this morning, this act of stupidity is on the low end of stupid things 23 year olds do.
.
Of course 23 year olds do stupid things. But remember how the three A's work

First Accept what you have done is wrong.
Second Apologise for your wrongdoing
Third Atone in some way.

Not seeing this from MT. Rather its the ends justify the means; no apology and cling to job so semi Claytons consequence.

Baa_Baa
04-08-2017, 02:54 PM
Of course 23 year olds do stupid things. But remember how the three A's work

First Accept what you have done is wrong.
Second Apologise for your wrongdoing
Third Atone in some way.

Not seeing this from MT. Rather its the ends justify the means; no apology and cling to job so semi Claytons consequence.

It all started as a stunt, MT was sanctioned by the Greens to 'get some air' in the lead up to elections, by taking a calculated risk to divulge her benefit fraud, which worked very well as the polls showed. However, as things unfolded the media dug deeper, further revelations of electorate fraud emerged and it's turning to custard, for her, the Green's and the Labour coalition.

I would be very surprised if she had divulged the electorate fraud to the Green's when outlining the original strategy to come clean on the benefits fraud! All together this could easily spiral into a complete disaster for; her - resigning (it's amazing that Jacinda has not demanded her resignation and merely said she would not be in a Labour led cabinet); for Greens - loss of voters and loss of Labour cooperation and coalition; for Labour - loss of coalition partner they so desperately need.

jonu
04-08-2017, 02:55 PM
How many 23 year olds also do stupid things? As a good professor said on RNZ this morning, this act of stupidity is on the low end of stupid things 23 year olds do.

Hardly imo enough to have her resign, but certainly brings into question her morality and integrity. Arguably it's more stupid divulging her fraudulent past than having actually done it. Anyway, it's backfired on her and the Greens, with major parties distancing themselves from her in a cabinet role and damaging the Labour / Greens love-in.

Her problem is, she has lost all possibility of being in a position of governance. How can she possibly be part of government responsible for making sure taxpayer's money is not being rorted by beneficiaries, when she has admitted to it herself? She has also admitted to flouting the electoral laws that she and the rest of us rely upon for the integrity of our government.

She has lost all moral authority to be in the house of representatives. I would be saying the same no matter what party she was in. It has nothing to do with being in the Greens.

Baa_Baa
04-08-2017, 03:15 PM
Her problem is, she has lost all possibility of being in a position of governance. How can she possibly be part of government responsible for making sure taxpayer's money is not being rorted by beneficiaries, when she has admitted to it herself? She has also admitted to flouting the electoral laws that she and the rest of us rely upon for the integrity of our government.

She has lost all moral authority to be in the house of representatives. I would be saying the same no matter what party she was in. It has nothing to do with being in the Greens.

Completely agree. I forgot to add that she could also be facing; pay back the benefit money; pay two fines (benefit fraud and electoral fraud); go to jail.

minimoke
04-08-2017, 03:38 PM
Her problem is, she has lost all possibility of being in a position of governance. How can she possibly be part of government responsible for making sure taxpayer's money is not being rorted......
She clearly hasnt followed porn man Shane Jones - he followed the 3 A's and look where he is now.

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 03:44 PM
She clearly hasnt followed porn man Shane Jones - he followed the 3 A's and look where he is now.

She'll be gone if the Kermits show a drop in the next poll, which is almost guaranteed. They'll chuck her out.

Major von Tempsky
04-08-2017, 03:50 PM
I seem to recall that if you are convicted of a crime punishable by gaol then you are out as an MP let alone as a Minister.

Do her crimes add to gaol yet? Are there any more to come?

fungus pudding
04-08-2017, 04:01 PM
I seem to recall that if you are convicted of a crime punishable by gaol then you are out as an MP let alone as a Minister.

Do her crimes add to gaol yet? Are there any more to come?

I think it has to be a crime where the penalty can be a two year prison term or more.

minimoke
04-08-2017, 04:37 PM
I think it has to be a crime where the penalty can be a two year prison term or more.
Also got to be a crime that is chargeable - she is probably outside a limitation period

percy
04-08-2017, 05:29 PM
You'd need to prosecute thousand and thousands more of people who were/are stuck in actual poverty traps and need/ed to do something to survive; feed the kids etc. Its bennett who is not acknowledging her possible worse fraud that needs to be investigated. Its white collar tax fraud that needs to be investigated far more; i mean home detention for stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars more!! Its the auditor general arguably the most powerful man in the land only going when forced too which is a scary thought to think that such a person was prepared to stay there!

I guess she is best at home staying in parliment with other politicans,.
The real damage to society is done when they leave parliment and become directors of companies.
Just another to add to our best to avoid list.

Hoop
05-08-2017, 11:45 AM
I guess she is best at home staying in parliment with other politicans,.
The real damage to society is done when they leave parliment and become directors of companies.
Just another to add to our best to avoid list.

Seldom write on political issues but I have a concern here... the amount of voters who think welfare fraud is OK and admire her for doing it surprised me.

I don't care if they are from National Greens Labour NZ First or from whatever (including very large companies)...any person designated to have a part to play in looking after the welfare of NZ Inc should not have a history of corrupt practices.

We NZers are proud of our Government and their public services..We have one of least corrupt and more transparent Government systems (all political parties make a government) in the world....We as individuals have only one shot at this every 3 years to make damn sure it stays this way....

Joshuatree
05-08-2017, 12:30 PM
Im not proud of this govt Hoop. Too many tainted ministers imo ,right to the top. Too long in power has corrupted them i believe. We can do better. Wake up NZ there is now an alternative and ideals to be enacted.

minimoke
05-08-2017, 12:58 PM
Seldom write on political issues but I have a concern here... the amount of voters who think welfare fraud is OK and admire her for doing it surprised me.
That surprised me as well. Apparently 50% of Greens reckon it was OK - which only serves to fuel my prejudice against them

iceman
05-08-2017, 10:11 PM
Seldom write on political issues but I have a concern here... the amount of voters who think welfare fraud is OK and admire her for doing it surprised me.

I don't care if they are from National Greens Labour NZ First or from whatever (including very large companies)...any person designated to have a part to play in looking after the welfare of NZ Inc should not have a history of corrupt practices.

We NZers are proud of our Government and their public services..We have one of least corrupt and more transparent Government systems (all political parties make a government) in the world....We as individuals have only one shot at this every 3 years to make damn sure it stays this way....

A good post Hoop and I share your views on this

artemis
06-08-2017, 06:03 AM
Ms Turei played two cards (designed to) appeal to a specific constituency. The champion of the poor and oppressed, and the victim card. Initially there was a lot of admiration and support, then more information started to emerge. "I had flatmates and had to lie; I didn't name the baby's father so he would not be hassled for child support" became a series of reveals and explanations, and the word "fraud" began to become top of the list. All downhill from there.

minimoke
07-08-2017, 05:24 PM
Now we start to see teh affect! Kennedy Graham and David Clendon, two of the greens longest serving MP's quit.

fungus pudding
07-08-2017, 05:33 PM
Now we start to see teh affect! Kennedy Graham and David Clendon, two of the greens longest serving MP's quit.,
The Greens problems will be a boost for Morgan's lot with their shared interest in communist ideals."

Bjauck
07-08-2017, 06:52 PM
,
The Greens problems will be a boost for Morgan's lot with their shared interest in communist ideals." Please explain how TOP and the Greens are more "communist" than the other parties.

Do you mean "communist" or rather "stalinist?" The achievement of communism results in the absence of the state - whereas under stalinism I think that the centralised state is ominpresent and omnipotent.

Joshuatree
07-08-2017, 07:02 PM
They doing it on other threads too, commies , socialists, capital gains tax etc ; desperate and low and a little scared. But no need to , New Zealand will be a better place for all,Rise up we can all do better.

fungus pudding
07-08-2017, 07:08 PM
Please explain how TOP and the Greens are more "communist" than the other parties.

Do you mean "communist" or rather "stalinist?" The achievement of communism results in the absence of the state - whereas under stalinism I think that the centralised state is ominpresent and omnipotent.

Morgan wzants to eventually apply his universal income to everyone. Paid from the state of course, but the only way the state will have money is by applying an annual tax to property owners. Private houses included in that, and rental houses effectively removed from owners' control. That's communism. Greens haven't changed their vision of utopia since they were the values party. Commies.

minimoke
07-08-2017, 07:13 PM
The Greens, for as long as I've ever been aware have been known as Watermelons. Green on the Outside, red on the inside.

And Merteria proves the point: Shifted wealth from the wealthy tax payer to the poor downtrodden Beneficiary - but through fraudulent means

Major von Tempsky
07-08-2017, 07:20 PM
"Will the illegal acts affect the Greens?"

Yes, two of their MPs have just resigned! :-)

fungus pudding
07-08-2017, 07:22 PM
Morgan wzants to eventually apply his universal income to everyone. Paid from the state of course, but the only way the state will have money is by applying an annual tax to property owners. Private houses included in that, and rental houses effectively removed from owners' control. That's communism. Greens haven't changed their vision of utopia since they were the values party. Commies.

It's worth noting Morgan's great enthusiasm and admiration for North Korea.

Bjauck
07-08-2017, 08:37 PM
Morgan wzants to eventually apply his universal income to everyone. Paid from the state of course, but the only way the state will have money is by applying an annual tax to property owners. Private houses included in that, and rental houses effectively removed from owners' control. That's communism. Greens haven't changed their vision of utopia since they were the values party. Commies.

I am not sure why tax on houses would remove them out of owners control any more than the current rates do. After all currently "private property" is ultimately under crown ownership as anyone who has been subject to compulsory acquisition for "public works" can attest. Rental property still has to abide by certain standards before it can be offered to the public to rent.

The way the state gets money at the moment is by applying income tax (on personal effort for example) and GST whilst (mostly) exempting assets and capital gains*from tax. Isn't it an arbitrary decision to tax income instead of assets? Our current system of (mainly) income tax and gst is quite a regressive system in favour of those wealthy enough to invest large amounts for capital gain. Why is this current state sponsored system any less Stalinist than an alternative state sponsored tax system?

*currently there are inconsistent rules Under which some capital gains are taxed as income.

fungus pudding
07-08-2017, 09:35 PM
I am not sure why tax on houses would remove them out of owners control any more than the current rates do.

It's his proposal to disallow landlords the right to evict tenants, or take back their property unless there has been deliberate vandalism, or serious rent default. If the owner wants to use the property, or sell with vacant possesion, or rebuild on the site - too bad. Comrade Gareth says no. add to that his nonsense of rental control. And every other economist in the planet knows what rent control does. Silly Comrade Garreth.

minimoke
08-08-2017, 06:06 AM
The other obvious repurcussion is that it has obvious caused Co Leader James Shaw to have some kind of brain meltdown. He reckons that Graham and Clendon have brought the Green Party reputation into disrepute and there must be consequences.

Therefore the best I can figure is that the Greens reckon it is fine to commit benefit fraud and electoral fraud and admit these as a Co Leader of the party in a Party meeting but its not ok to have kind of moral spine and resign in protest.

fungus pudding
08-08-2017, 06:28 AM
The other obvious repurcussion is that it has obvious caused Co Leader James Shaw to have some kind of brain meltdown. He reckons that Graham and Clendon have brought the Green Party reputation into disrepute and there must be consequences.

Therefore the best I can figure is that the Greens reckon it is fine to commit benefit fraud and electoral fraud and admit these as a Co Leader of the party in a Party meeting but its not ok to have kind of moral spine and resign in protest.

Kermit was righjt all along. 'It ain't easy being Green.'

Bjauck
08-08-2017, 08:31 AM
It's his proposal to disallow landlords the right to evict tenants, or take back their property unless there has been deliberate vandalism, or serious rent default. If the owner wants to use the property, or sell with vacant possesion, or rebuild on the site - too bad. Comrade Gareth says no. add to that his nonsense of rental control. And every other economist in the planet knows what rent control does. Silly Comrade Garreth. It is a question of degree then. Planning law and fit for purpose in the 21st century aspects aside, other more wealthy societies than NZ's have some of the rental property regulations as proposed. As property ownership (and stable home backgrounds?) increasingly slide to become a minority privilege (especially in Auckland), is it not time to revisit tenancy laws? A New Zealander's home has never been their castle - and certainly not if you are tenant and your home is someone else's investment.

I agree with you about rent control. National already tried that under Muldoon - along with wage and price control. I believe they were unsuccessful back then.

fungus pudding
08-08-2017, 09:04 AM
It is a question of degree then. Planning law and fit for purpose in the 21st century aspects aside, other more wealthy societies than NZ's have some of the rental property regulations as proposed. As property ownership (and stable home backgrounds?) increasingly slide to become a minority privilege (especially in Auckland), is it not time to revisit tenancy laws? A New Zealander's home has never been their castle - and certainly not if you are tenant and your home is someone else's investment.

I agree with you about rent control. National already tried that under Muldoon - along with wage and price control. I believe they were unsuccessful back then.

Rent controls have been a disaster in many countries, and I have no argument against sensible tenancy laws; but removing access rights from owners is ridiculous. NZ used to have protected tenants, and it was disastrous.
Muldoon was a clown and his price, wage and rent freeze was simply unworkable nonsense.

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 09:23 AM
The other obvious repurcussion is that it has obvious caused Co Leader James Shaw to have some kind of brain meltdown. He reckons that Graham and Clendon have brought the Green Party reputation into disrepute and there must be consequences.

Therefore the best I can figure is that the Greens reckon it is fine to commit benefit fraud and electoral fraud and admit these as a Co Leader of the party in a Party meeting but its not ok to have kind of moral spine and resign in protest.

Its the way they chose to do it.They were obligated to give 24 hors notice i think it was and go through process; they gave two and went to the media.. Jeanette Fitzimmons gave a very good example of the inflexibility of welfare where a solo father of 3 children got offered a day or twos work, got a baby sitter, did the work , told welfare and got penalised with no payments for two weeks, desperate poverty..next time he got offered a little work he didn't tell welfare, Fraud? A lot wrong that needs fixing is the point.

minimoke
08-08-2017, 09:54 AM
Jeanette Fitzimmons gave a very good example of the inflexibility of welfare where a solo father of 3 children got offered a day or twos work, got a baby sitter, did the work , told welfare and got penalised with no payments for two weeks, desperate poverty..next time he got offered a little work he didn't tell welfare, Fraud? A lot wrong that needs fixing is the point.
Nice try by fitzimmons to send in a distraction.

Bottom lines are.
- turei broke the law.
- she broke it for 5 years.
- she deliberately manipulated the electoral system to try to get a person elected.
- she kept quiet about this until she thought she could make political capital from it.
-she does not see that she has done anything wrong - and until then cant begin to apologise
- as an mp her responsibility is to make law.

She is totally unsuited to being a member of our house of representatives unless of course you think all of the above is okay.

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 10:07 AM
I agree that she was busted for telling other porkies and it wasn't all about the poverty trap.Stood down as leader would be appropriate. Just reminded me of the double dipper from Dipton ,Bill English though.

elZorro
08-08-2017, 10:28 AM
Look, I've heard on the grapevine in recent years, about a sitting National MP drink driving, swerves erratically and then crashes his marked-up car in a suburban street, is observed running off, by the time the cops get there someone else has turned up and is sitting in the driver's seat to take the heat. The difference? The National MP won't ever admit that.

fungus pudding
08-08-2017, 10:43 AM
Look, I've heard on the grapevine in recent years, about a sitting National MP drink driving, swerves erratically and then crashes his marked-up car in a suburban street, is observed running off, by the time the cops get there someone else has turned up and is sitting in the driver's seat to take the heat. The difference? The National MP won't ever admit that.

Of course you have eZ. I haven't, so tell us - who you have heard that it was.

elZorro
08-08-2017, 12:22 PM
Of course you have eZ. I haven't, so tell us - who you have heard that it was.

Someone who is known to have a drinking problem, one of the CNI region MPs. I only have hearsay, but from fairly close in to the matter. Why do you think I'm working hard to get a change of government? This behaviour is not good enough.

minimoke
08-08-2017, 12:27 PM
So that's how the greens treat their founders. Show a bit of moral strength and its out the door you go.

Greens clearly not the greens - they sre the benificiary hand out, snout in yhe trough party.

I have no time for graham but the greens treatment of these two is appaling.

jonu
08-08-2017, 12:29 PM
Someone who is known to have a drinking problem, one of the CNI region MPs. I only have hearsay, but from fairly close in to the matter. Why do you think I'm working hard to get a change of government? This behaviour is not good enough.

Well El Z you have just tainted all the CNI MPs, on the old guilty in the Court of Hearsay. Well done you, hope you feel good about yourself spreading scuttlebutt rumours and innuendo. Politics is such a high minded affair aint it?

fungus pudding
08-08-2017, 12:33 PM
Someone who is known to have a drinking problem, one of the CNI region MPs. I only have hearsay, but from fairly close in to the matter. Why do you think I'm working hard to get a change of government? This behaviour is not good enough.

Yes. Hearing a silly rumour about one MP out of 58 , almost certainly without any foundation, is an excellent reason to change the govt.
Who was the volunteer taking the heat?
Dollars to doughnuts that you have no idea about this. A scrap of truth in any such rumour and some journalists would have brought it into the open by now, or more than likely Winston would have beaten them to it.
Your behaviour with your sleazy insinuations is appalling.

elZorro
08-08-2017, 12:44 PM
Well El Z you have just tainted all the CNI MPs, on the old guilty in the Court of Hearsay. Well done you, hope you feel good about yourself spreading scuttlebutt rumours and innuendo. Politics is such a high minded affair aint it?

Oh, I think this is true all right, a bit hard to prove though. And I'm not going to spell it out any further on this forum. My point is that right under our noses, National MPs are disregarding the law while they are in the highest office, some are not doing any real work, but making sure they stay there as MPs. They can be a drunken womanising MP with no sensible thing to say on policy, and they'll still get promoted within the National ranks eventually.

Minerbarejet
08-08-2017, 12:47 PM
Nice try by fitzimmons to send in a distraction.

Bottom lines are.
- turei broke the law.
- she broke it for 5 years.
- she deliberately manipulated the electoral system to try to get a person elected.
- she kept quiet about this until she thought she could make political capital from it.
-she does not see that she has done anything wrong - and until then cant begin to apologise
- as an mp her responsibility is to make law.

She is totally unsuited to being a member of our house of representatives unless of course you think all of the above is okay.
And taught her daughter its all OK to do this.
"Its not OK"

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 01:00 PM
Oh, I think this is true all right, a bit hard to prove though. And I'm not going to spell it out any further on this forum. My point is that right under our noses, National MPs are disregarding the law while they are in the highest office, some are not doing any real work, but making sure they stay there as MPs. They can be a drunken womanising MP with no sensible thing to say on policy, and they'll still get promoted within the National ranks eventually.

Yes , and how much did bill reluctantly have to pay back was it $32,000. Dodgy. His coverup continues over todd; he doesn't have the 400 plus texts anymore to Glenys and is choosing not to explain why and can't remember them, yeah right bill.

jonu
08-08-2017, 01:18 PM
Oh, I think this is true all right, a bit hard to prove though. And I'm not going to spell it out any further on this forum. My point is that right under our noses, National MPs are disregarding the law while they are in the highest office, some are not doing any real work, but making sure they stay there as MPs. They can be a drunken womanising MP with no sensible thing to say on policy, and they'll still get promoted within the National ranks eventually.

You're still at it!

minimoke
08-08-2017, 01:53 PM
Oh, I think this is true all right, a bit hard to prove though. And I'm not going to spell it out any further on this forum.
You think it's true? It either is or it isn't. If it is there will be proof - so cough up. If it's not true is just gossip and if gossip is the best you can offer so be it. You could at least dress it up ad gossip rather than trying to pass it off as something else.

Beagle
08-08-2017, 02:22 PM
Nice try by fitzimmons to send in a distraction.

Bottom lines are.
- turei broke the law.
- she broke it for 5 years.
- she deliberately manipulated the electoral system to try to get a person elected.
- she kept quiet about this until she thought she could make political capital from it.
-she does not see that she has done anything wrong - and until then cant begin to apologise
- as an mp her responsibility is to make law.

She is totally unsuited to being a member of our house of representatives unless of course you think all of the above is okay.

Agree and the fact that the rest of the party can't see that means their credibility is very much in question. How anyone could trust them to be part of a coalition governing this country is beyond me.

fungus pudding
08-08-2017, 02:28 PM
Oh, I think this is true all right, a bit hard to prove though. And I'm not going to spell it out any further on this forum. My point is that right under our noses, National MPs are disregarding the law while they are in the highest office, some are not doing any real work, but making sure they stay there as MPs. They can be a drunken womanising MP with no sensible thing to say on policy, and they'll still get promoted within the National ranks eventually.

You should hear what I've been told about certain Labour MPs. Scandalous. I can't prove it so I'm not going to spell it out, but it's true. What's more they're lined up for a promotion. All of them. An absolute disgrace.

minimoke
08-08-2017, 02:32 PM
Agree and the fact that the rest of the party can't see that means their credibility is very much in question. How anyone could trust them to be part of a coalition governing this country is beyond me.
I have always held the greens in disdain. I suppose i have seen them as misguided socialists - which does not sit well with me.

But to have the whole of the green caucus think this behaviour is fine (especially when compared with the key tenets held dear by Graham and Clendon) just goes to show how far they are removed from what most would see as reasonable standatds.

Anyone voting for this lot now should pause and look very closely at themselves - you arent good people!

minimoke
08-08-2017, 02:47 PM
You should hear what I've been told about certain Labour MPs. Scandalous. I can't prove it so I'm not going to spell it out, but it's true. What's more they're lined up for a promotion. All of them. An absolute disgrace.
You should see what i have heard from some people who know people really close to a relative of someone who was a friend of someone involved in politics. Staggering stuff and if it didnt come from such a reliable source you wouldnt believe it!

elZorro
08-08-2017, 02:49 PM
You think it's true? It either is or it isn't. If it is there will be proof - so cough up. If it's not true is just gossip and if gossip is the best you can offer so be it. You could at least dress it up ad gossip rather than trying to pass it off as something else.

I could get my contact to write an affidavit I guess, and then it would up to the police to re-interview the person who was in the MP's car pretending to be the driver. Two eye witnesses saw a male running from the car after the prang, and the description of that male fits the MP's uncommon features (as related to my contact). It was a marked-up MP's car, how often do you see anyone other than an MP driving those?

Hoop
08-08-2017, 02:49 PM
Nice try by fitzimmons to send in a distraction.

Bottom lines are.
- turei broke the law.
- she broke it for 5 years.
- she deliberately manipulated the electoral system to try to get a person elected.
- she kept quiet about this until she thought she could make political capital from it.
-she does not see that she has done anything wrong - and until then cant begin to apologise
- as an mp her responsibility is to make law.

She is totally unsuited to being a member of our house of representatives unless of course you think all of the above is okay.

I Totally agree...

But apparently not everyone agree's with us Minimoke...The comments on stuff are closed (no kidding), but I read this womans post before it closed...she is now going to vote Greens because Metiria was being honest........Really!!!!

fungus pudding
08-08-2017, 03:34 PM
I could get my contact to write an affidavit I guess, and then it would up to the police to re-interview the person who was in the MP's car pretending to be the driver. Two eye witnesses saw a male running from the car after the prang, and the description of that male fits the MP's uncommon features (as related to my contact). It was a marked-up MP's car, how often do you see anyone other than an MP driving those?

The plot thickens. Now we've got someone who tells you there were two eye witnesses who allegedly saw a drunken MP running from the accident site; and they knew it was the MP because the culprit had uncommon features , like the MP. The drunken MP was sober enough to find some mug at short notice who was happy to put his hand up and claim to be the driver. The police didn't manage to uncover any of this during their investigation.
This is wicked behaviour all round.
First from the drunken running MP.
Also from the eye witnesses who let him just run away, without getting a real description or proper details.
Then from the mug who volunteered to take the rap.(probably bribed I'd say eZ - Wouldn't you?)
Last but not least from the cops, who overlooked all the evidence - almost certainly they were paid up card carrying members of the National party, wouldn't you think eZ.
Whatever - it's scandalous and you should immediately report all these incriminating rock solid facts to the police.

Beagle
08-08-2017, 04:11 PM
I have always held the greens in disdain. I suppose i have seen them as misguided socialists - which does not sit well with me.

But to have the whole of the green caucus think this behaviour is fine (especially when compared with the key tenets held dear by Graham and Clendon) just goes to show how far they are removed from what most would see as reasonable standatds.

Anyone voting for this lot now should pause and look very closely at themselves - you arent good people!

Next they'll want to legalise other harder drugs as long as they're grown in an environmentally friendly way. I agree, they're a complete joke now.
If she and Jasinda and Winston somehow get into power in some unholy alliance, crickey, we thought the American's had it bad with Trump !

percy
08-08-2017, 04:46 PM
The Greens earned respect crusading on improving the environment.
They campaigned with honesty.
Only the two, long standing former Greens have retained their dignity.
The Green caucus have lost all respect backing a selfish liar.

minimoke
08-08-2017, 06:03 PM
Next they'll want to legalise other harder drugs as long as they're grown in an environmentally friendly way. I agree, they're a complete joke now.
If she and Jasinda and Winston somehow get into power in some unholy alliance, crickey, we thought the American's had it bad with Trump !First we had the poms leading the way with setting the bar at Brexit.

Americans, determined to see a lower bar went Trump.

Now its NZ's turn - voters seem to be a damn fickle lot.

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 06:36 PM
A bit over the top percy. A lot of sympathy and understanding for anyone stuck in the flawed poverty social welfare trap with their children; a horrible existence which needs to be improved for all the majority of folks caught in that desperate situation. It got attention.
Unfort it got messier and messier with Turei and hijacked ; diverted things and if she had stepped down as co leader; they could have regrouped and got back on track although not sure where the environmental issues have gone to atp?! More to come ,think her position is untenable atp.

percy
08-08-2017, 06:58 PM
A bit over the top percy. A lot of sympathy and understanding for anyone stuck in the flawed poverty social welfare trap with their children; a horrible existence which needs to be improved for all the majority of folks caught in that desperate situation. It got attention.
Unfort it got messier and messier with Turei and hijacked ; diverted things and if she had stepped down as co leader; they could have regrouped and got back on track although not sure where the environmental issues have gone to atp?! More to come ,think her position is untenable atp.

It is a very difficult area.Those who need it don't seem to get enough,while others are milking the system.
She decided to put herself before others.
She has let down the honest members who resigned,as well as the many honest people who believed The Greens' cause.
Those who have remained and supported her are tainted and have lost most peoples' respect.

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 07:26 PM
I don't think they've been tainted its just been badly handled and the two leaving went outside process which wasn't necessary; why shaft your party like that, they have their part to play. Could have been handled better by both parties and I'm still hopeful they can.
You are not showing much empathy for those stuck in poverty its almost like you are blaming them and stepping on their throats, an unfortunate unsavoury habit of many well heeled folk.

iceman
08-08-2017, 07:30 PM
The Greens earned respect crusading on improving the environment.
They campaigned with honesty.
Only the two, long standing former Greens have retained their dignity.
The Green caucus have lost all respect backing a selfish liar.

And that is it in a nutshell. I can't see how any person can now vote for the Green Party. The only "green" thing left in that party is, as Obama put it in his debate with John McCain, "green behind the ears".
I suspect there will be many potential voters of the Left block running away from that option with this party in complete disarray and Shaw having managed it really badly. They are not fit for Government.

Little left (pun intended) for the Left now other than slanderous allegations and dirty politics as we can see from EZ on this forum again and again

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 07:54 PM
Iceman cool down:). I believe Elz could name names but he is too sensible to do that. Boy what a pack of freaked out dizrhythmic pack of running scared ,shocked ,attack sea lice your'e all behaving like. Very defensive ahead of the next poll results ehh:t_up:

iceman
08-08-2017, 08:01 PM
Iceman cool down:). I believe Elz could name names but he is too sensible to do that. Boy what a pack of freaked out dizrhythmic pack of running scared ,shocked ,attack sea lice your'e all behaving like. Very defensive ahead of the next poll results ehh:t_up:

Totally cool. I've been criticising EZ when he makes slanderous allegations for several years, since he very unfairly attacked the Goodfellow family on here a long time ago. I think we can all share and debate our views on here without personal slander without substance, or if it has substance, be the man/woman to name people then.

winner69
08-08-2017, 08:04 PM
Iceman cool down:). I believe Elz could name names but he is too sensible to do that. Boy what a pack of freaked out dizrhythmic pack of running scared ,shocked ,attack sea lice your'e all behaving like. Very defensive ahead of the next poll results ehh:t_up:

Hey Joshua - can I suggest you cool it - have a bit of time out mate, you really are becoming a bit irrational




Some might find your last post rather offensive and report it so be careful

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 08:06 PM
You're easily offended W69 has some one just told you the story off the wide mouthed frog as your voice has got strangely:confused: small

minimoke
08-08-2017, 08:11 PM
You are not showing much empathy for those stuck in poverty its almost like you are blaming them and stepping on their throats, an unfortunate unsavoury habit of many well heeled folk.

I find this so extremely offensive at so many levels.

There are thousands of beneficiaries out there doing it hard - its not supposed to be easy. But they are doing it honesty without breaking the law, And then there are those that dont bring their wrong doing up for personal gain. Offensive!

And dont get me started on a person who thinks it is quite all right to manipulate the electoral system and still expects to be a co-leader of a "major" political party

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 08:28 PM
I think there are many many thousands forced to not declare little extras as in Janettes example that i posted ,they get hammered for being honest the first time.!! Most of us including me just can't conceive of that struggle with living on the edge and keeping a little self respect!

minimoke
08-08-2017, 08:53 PM
... not declare little extras 5 years of "little extra's"! She had time to protest. You'd think she would try to preserve a little self respect and use that time to get a little job. But no, so much easier to suck off the tax payer teat - something she clearly intends doing for as long as possible. She wouldnt know the meaning of "self respect"!

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 09:06 PM
Im talking beneficiaries on the poverty benefit trap MM not about Teria but hey our leader was forgiven for his re $32,000 ripoff that he was caught out on and reluctantly paid back(double dipper from Dipton).!!!?

iceman
08-08-2017, 09:12 PM
Im talking beneficiaries on the poverty benefit trap MM not about Teria but hey our leader was forgiven for his re $32,000 ripoff that he was caught out on and reluctantly paid back(double dipper from Dipton).!!!?

Fact Check written just for you JT :-) http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11900227

777
08-08-2017, 09:42 PM
Another withdrawal

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95586507/green-party-candidate-for-hutt-south-pulls-out-of-election-race

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 09:44 PM
Fact Check written just for you JT :-) http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11900227

Sounds accurate as long as she's not a plant like Hoskings :eek2:

777
08-08-2017, 09:47 PM
Sounds accurate as long as she's not a plant like Hoskings :eek2:


How do we know you are not a plant on here JT.

Joshuatree
08-08-2017, 10:21 PM
Well I've been here a looong time, but nowhere as long as you:) i like blueberries and have two to plant(fantastic croppers and don't like wet feet thats a myth). Im into the environment and have posted a lot there and am a Labour voter too last time and this.I may split my vote. I truly have lost trust in national; they've been there too long and have corrupted imo .Nothing about taking money just doing anything to stay in power and the chickens are coming home to roost with big big problems they didn't try to fix until too late.Just ask anyone renting a house for one; then get out of ones comfort zone and ask a family with the misfortune of trying to survive on a poverty benefit trap if they are getting by ok and how much goes in rent?

minimoke
09-08-2017, 05:58 AM
Another withdrawal

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95586507/green-party-candidate-for-hutt-south-pulls-out-of-election-raceAccepted the job in july and decided to withdraw yesterday to prioritise job. yeah right! Obviously saw the writing on the wall and was smart enough to figure a job in the hand was better then becoming a beneficiary in September

Beagle
09-08-2017, 08:37 AM
If National lead a center right coalition after the election many here, (including myself) will be very pleased Turei and her party dug themselves into a black hole.
Amazing that between the lot of them the Greens don't realise that when you're in a hole the first thing to do is to stop digging, look for a ladder and climb out.
Her lack of contrition and remorse marks her out as an ongoing fraud.

minimoke
09-08-2017, 08:38 AM
So she justifies fraud in order to look after her baby. Once again i find her position offensive.

Some of us decide to get into a financially stable decision before deciding to have babies. And some of us decide if we cant afford babies we will take precautions to ensure they dont mysteriously appear one morning. She clearly doesnt understand that sacrifices are made to avoid being a benificiary and that babies are, on the whole, a choice.

winner69
09-08-2017, 09:24 AM
You're easily offended W69 has some one just told you the story off the wide mouthed frog as your voice has got strangely:confused: small



Very funny .....but was (too) subtle whisper in your ear to cool it before somebody (not me) finds your posts so offensive they report them

Isn't that how it works mate - don't like something so report it and it goes away

Hate to miss any of your posts -I find them well something but not sure what

westerly
09-08-2017, 09:44 AM
So she justifies fraud in order to look after her baby. Once again i find her position offensive.

Some of us decide to get into a financially stable decision before deciding to have babies. And some of us decide if we cant afford babies we will take precautions to ensure they dont mysteriously appear one morning. She clearly doesnt understand that sacrifices are made to avoid being a benificiary and that babies are, on the whole, a choice.

Sometimes when you are young and foolish, things happen, and then again not everyone is so easily offended.

westerly

minimoke
09-08-2017, 10:35 AM
Sometimes when you are young and foolish, things happen, and then again not everyone is so easily offended.

westerly
She was 22 years old not some dumb teenager. And she has had the rest of her life to put it right. Instead she has choosen to make political gain of her so called hardship.

When in reality she had the support of her family and the fathers family. She even acknowledges this is much more support than people in similar circumstsnces get. Yet she still has to defraud the tax payer.

Dont for a moment think she was young and foolish.

Joshuatree
09-08-2017, 10:40 AM
You folks just are not comprehending how wrong the Welfare system is because you don't seem able to ever have empathy for those that do end up in the welfare poverty trap; or want to by the sounds of it. Get off your high horses and learn compassion. How many of you right now are thinking "Bludgers" "No hopers" "lazy hand me outers"? For many reasons through no fault of their own most folks who end up in the welfare safety net, which treats them like criminals and does cruel things like immediately suspend the benefit for two weeks if they are honest and told welfare that they've been given a box of food or managed to find work for a day or got a small loan at 30% from a loan shark in desperation. They (most) don't want to be there or to be treated like 3rd world criminals. Its broke ; inhuman and needs to be fixed. Thats the roundabout way Turei is getting her message through and all you want to do is stay in your happy place and judge!

"Thinking is difficult thats why most people judge"

Joshuatree
09-08-2017, 10:50 AM
Very funny .....but was (too) subtle whisper in your ear to cool it before somebody (not me) finds your posts so offensive they report them

Isn't that how it works mate - don't like something so report it and it goes away

Hate to miss any of your posts -I find them well something but not sure what

Thanks w69. My nephew told me the wide mouthed frog story when he was about 9; it was so funny the punch line and expression he managed perfectly at the end of the story.:)

Im guessing its national followers who actually have folks who disagree now instead of a one way put down of other parties and pumping national, are trying their dirty tricks to silence me and other voices; i mentioned stooping earlier and just hope thats not a level to go to.

Biscuit
09-08-2017, 10:57 AM
You folks just are not comprehending how wrong the Welfare system is .....



I think you are confusing two different issues. Life's tough at the bottom and a bit of benefit fraud isn't the end of the world. But, she hasn't been a beneficiary for a long while, she has "earned" a pretty good salary for a pretty long time. If she had paid back the money when she could, she might have been able to sell this whole fraud disclosure as being about a wider principle. But she didn't. The issue now is about personal greed, entitlement, dishonesty and unfitness to govern.

stoploss
09-08-2017, 11:02 AM
[QUOTE=Joshuatree;677621]You folks just are not comprehending how wrong the Welfare system is because you don't seem able to ever have empathy for those that do end up in the welfare poverty trap; or want to by the sounds of it. Get off your high horses and learn compassion. How many of you right now are thinking "Bludgers" "No hopers" "lazy hand me outers"? For many reasons through no fault of their own most folks who end up in the welfare safety net, which treats them like criminals and does cruel things like immediately suspend the benefit for two weeks if they are honest and told welfare that they've been given a box of food or managed to find work for a day or got a small loan at 30% from a loan shark in desperation. They (most) don't want to be there or to be treated like 3rd world criminals. Its broke ; inhuman and needs to be fixed. Thats the roundabout way Turei is getting her message through and all you want to do is stay in your happy place and judge!

JT , I think it is a big call to say people don't have empathy for those less fortunate . That's not the issue here , sure social welfare could be improved .
I see the issue here the way she has gone about this , she felt "entitled" to do what she did and has not apologised .
She feels she is not good enough for cabinet , but somehow still fit to be a co-leader ?
When you become a politician and enter parliament I thought there was an oath to uphold the law , let alone whatever she had to do to become a lawyer....
I find it incredulous that she sees fit to wrought the electoral system and then to stand and be elected by the same system ....
I thought James Shaw spoke a lot of sense over many issues but all credibility has gone out the window backing this horse.

Joshuatree
09-08-2017, 11:10 AM
i agree she should step down as leader ; I've said that; for the best,for her party . But its forced attention to a very thorny issue how the welfare system works and thats good. Two Green party members walked and although their principles have held they've shafted their party; sad because one is a knowledgeable climate change expert. Yes some people do have empathy.

minimoke
09-08-2017, 11:15 AM
Jt - you have no idea at all about what some of us do for others!

Beagle
09-08-2017, 11:56 AM
Jt - you have no idea at all about what some of us do for others!

Some of the comments here are completely ludicrous and I agree 100% with you. If some would get off their sanctimonious soap boxes and get their hands dirty helping others in need they wouldn't have time to bemoan how unfair the welfare system is. I predict Turei will sink the Greens this election and I for one am very pleased as she and the party by their own actions are definitely not fit to be part of an governing coalition !

minimoke
09-08-2017, 12:08 PM
.
I thought James Shaw spoke a lot of sense over many issues but all credibility has gone out the window backing this horse.
Im pleased labor want to do something about water quality as there is obviously something very wrong with the stuff the greens must be drinking.

Shaw has totally lost the plot - now saying these are gender and race issues. If i was to pick 2 words they might be integrity and selfishness.

BlackPeter
09-08-2017, 12:18 PM
i agree she should step down as leader ; I've said that; for the best,for her party . But its forced attention to a very thorny issue how the welfare system works and thats good. Two Green party members walked and although their principles have held they've shafted their party; sad because one is a knowledgeable climate change expert. Yes some people do have empathy.

There are a number of Green members who shafted their party:

The top shafter is clearly Metiria Turia. She is a self confessed benefit fraudster and a caught out address fraudster. She has not even the honorability to do now the right thing but she clings to her power and her seat. And remember - the fish always stinks from the head.

The next to follow is James Shaw. His Co-"leadership" during the dark time of benefit fraudsters smearing the image of the Green party was and is sorely lacking - and the best thing he could do was attacking the only two caucus members of his party who showed a moral spine. Remember - even two headed monsters like the Green party always seem to start to stink from the head.

And then there is the caucus of the Green party (all of them but two). Instead of doing the right thing and removing a fraudster from the party leadership and from parliament they allow this story to go on but shafted the 2 members who did the right thing. It is like ignoring cancer and shooting the surgeon. Their behaviour is not just appalling, it is stupid. The Green party deserves to lose their place in parliament, I guess 4.9% this election would give them a bit time to rethink their position and to rejuvenate.

Why however would anybody think that Kennedy Graham and David Clendon wronged the Green party? They seem to be so far the only Green members showing that they still have a conscience and know how to exercise it. Since when is this a crime? I might not share their political views (well, not all of them), but I can respect them. And yes, I do have empathy for them - Both of them did help to build up a monster which now swallowed its parents.

Beagle
09-08-2017, 01:11 PM
There are a number of Green members who shafted their party:

The top shafter is clearly Metiria Turia. She is a self confessed benefit fraudster and a caught out address fraudster. She has not even the honorability to do now the right thing but she clings to her power and her seat. And remember - the fish always stinks from the head.

The next to follow is James Shaw. His Co-"leadership" during the dark time of benefit fraudsters smearing the image of the Green party was and is sorely lacking - and the best thing he could do was attacking the only two caucus members of his party who showed a moral spine. Remember - even two headed monsters like the Green party always seem to start to stink from the head.

And then there is the caucus of the Green party (all of them but two). Instead of doing the right thing and removing a fraudster from the party leadership and from parliament they allow this story to go on but shafted the 2 members who did the right thing. It is like ignoring cancer and shooting the surgeon. Their behaviour is not just appalling, it is stupid. The Green party deserves to lose their place in parliament, I guess 4.9% this election would give them a bit time to rethink their position and to rejuvenate.

Why however would anybody think that Kennedy Graham and David Clendon wronged the Green party? They seem to be so far the only Green members showing that they still have a conscience and know how to exercise it. Since when is this a crime? I might not share their political views (well, not all of them), but I can respect them. And yes, I do have empathy for them - Both of them did help to build up a monster which now swallowed its parents.

I would like to nominate your post as THE best post of the month, agree 100% !

minimoke
09-08-2017, 04:22 PM
Shame! Took her too long. But just shows the true colours of Shaw and 49% OF Greens who support her

minimoke
09-08-2017, 04:23 PM
In case you missed it she has resigned.

fungus pudding
09-08-2017, 04:28 PM
In case you missed it she has resigned.

Says she's standing down from co-leadership and removing herself from list; then went on to talk about being part of the next govt? Does she plan on winning an electorate?

Major von Tempsky
09-08-2017, 04:35 PM
Ha! bloody ha! She has no show of winning an electorate!

So, what does she plan on doing post Parliament? Go on welfare again?

She's unemployable and knows nothing useful.

How about some apologies to those two men of impeccable integrity, the two heroes of the piece, Kennedy Graham and whatisname Clendon?

There's a new poll coming out at 7 pm tonight, to me the really interesting question is how much the Greeens have gone down? Will they make it back into Parliament at all?

stoploss
09-08-2017, 04:36 PM
Ha! bloody ha! She has no show of winning an electorate!

So, what does she plan on doing post Parliament? Go on welfare again?

She's unemployable and knows nothing useful.

How about some apologies to those two men of impeccable integrity, the two heroes of the piece, Kennedy Graham and whatisname Clendon?

There's a new poll coming out at 7 pm tonight, to me the really interesting question is how much the Greeens have gone down? Will they make it back into Parliament at all?

Do the Greens hold any electorate seats ?????????

fungus pudding
09-08-2017, 04:41 PM
Ha! bloody ha! She has no show of winning an electorate!

So, what does she plan on doing post Parliament? Go on welfare again?

She's unemployable and knows nothing useful.

How about some apologies to those two men of impeccable integrity, the two heroes of the piece, Kennedy Graham and whatisname Clendon?

There's a new poll coming out at 7 pm tonight, to me the really interesting question is how much the Greeens have gone down? Will they make it back into Parliament at all?

Yes. They'll get back in. Plenty of their supporters are just like her. They'll drop a bit - but not much. They'll be back up a bit by election.
She's not unemployable either. Pamphlet delivering, ditch digging - shearer - plenty of work around.

winner69
09-08-2017, 04:43 PM
Radio NZ says Metiria's child's grandparents gave significant support to her when she was a WINZ customer

stoploss
09-08-2017, 04:44 PM
Says she's standing down from co-leadership and removing herself from list; then went on to talk about being part of the next govt? Does she plan on winning an electorate?

Shaw confirms that Turei will retire at the election so that report about her staying on is not correct.

fungus pudding
09-08-2017, 04:49 PM
Yes. They'll get back in. Plenty of their supporters are just like her. They'll drop a bit - but not much. They'll be back up a bit by election.
She's not unemployable either. Pamphlet delivering, ditch digging - shearer - plenty of work around.

Don't forget a lot of their supporters are burnt out old has-been hippies from their values party days, and McGillicuddy serious party, which she was a member of.

Beagle
09-08-2017, 04:56 PM
Radio NZ says Metiria's child's grandparents gave significant support to her when she was a WINZ customer

Its the "entitlement mentality" that irks me. They stuff their lives up and them expect every man and his dog to support them..sadly I see this with one of my own 20 something kids. She just expects, expects and then expects more and more because she knows we've got a few quid. The lack of gratitude for the enormous ongoing support we provide is what really grinds my gears. Disappointed she's resigned to be honest. I was hoping she'd drag down this ridiculous bunch of lowest integrity greenies with her. Now she'll play the martyr and claim she's done the country a very valuable service by highlighting poverty...I can hardly wait...:rolleyes:

fungus pudding
09-08-2017, 05:02 PM
Its the "entitlement mentality" that irks me. They stuff their lives up and them expect every man and his dog to support them..sadly I see this with one of my own 20 something kids. She just expects, expects and then expects more and more because she knows we've got a few quid. The lack of gratitude for the enormous ongoing support we provide is what really grinds my gears. Disappointed she's resigned to be honest. I was hoping she'd drag down this ridiculous bunch of lowest integrity greenies with her.
You've got 20 something kids, and still got a few Bob. Knighthood due.

Major von Tempsky
09-08-2017, 05:03 PM
Fungus, me old mate - for the first time you disappoint me! You are guilty of not keeping up with the latest news whilst I have been feverishly bouncing from site to site!
Read Whaleloil and you'll see that the reputable poll coming out at 7pm has the Greens down to about 5% (i.e. might not make it back into Parliament! while Labour has gone up to about 35!
The major players get these poll results about 2 hours in advance which is why there has been so much panic stricken backtracking by the Greens to try and save a seat!
Next question: James Shaw's co-leadership mustnow be in question for not keeping a sensible distance between himself and Metiria!

fungus pudding
09-08-2017, 05:07 PM
Fungus, me old mate - for the first time you disappoint me! You are guilty of not keeping up with the latest news whilst I have been feverishly bouncing from site to site!
Read Whaleloil and you'll see that the reputable poll coming out at 7pm has the Greens down to about 5% (i.e. might not make it back into Parliament! while Labour has gone up to about 35!
The major players get these poll results about 2 hours in advance which is why there has been so much panic stricken backtracking by the Greens to try and save a seat!
Next question: James Shaw's co-leadership mustnow be in question for not keeping a sensible distance between himself and Metiria!

Just watching channel 3 poll. Has the kermits still safe.

minimoke
09-08-2017, 05:23 PM
And still no apology - or did I miss it?

(In case she doesnt realise it was the beneficiary system that got her qualified so she has zero to complain about)

Joshuatree
09-08-2017, 06:36 PM
Just watching channel 3 poll. Has the kermits still safe.

Kermits? still stooping fp.?!!:confused:

fungus pudding
09-08-2017, 07:02 PM
Kermits? still stooping fp.?!!:confused:


Just using their pet name to display my affection.

minimoke
09-08-2017, 08:59 PM
Just saw a bit of Jan Logie on Back Benches. Wow is that one bat**** crazy lady!

fungus pudding
09-08-2017, 09:15 PM
Just saw a bit of Jan Logie on Back Benches. Wow is that one bat**** crazy lady!

Yep. Man hater extraordinaire. They've certainly got some odd balls aboard.

minimoke
10-08-2017, 06:12 AM
Yep. Man hater extraordinaire. They've certainly got some odd balls aboard.
Dont quote, but I have a new respect for those two that left. I cant imagine what it would have been like in caucus with her.

What Logie is missing is that Turei wasnt about poverty. It is now shown she had very good support from her extended families when her baby was born. What she wanted was more money and wanted it the easiest way possible. That is, take it from those that have earnt it. To the tune of $58,000 apparently.

They are also missing the simple fact that being a beneficiary isnt meant to be easy - that is why there is tax payer support for those in need.

Quite clearly it is poverty of morals and spirit that is the issue

artemis
10-08-2017, 06:47 AM
Betting the Greens will have a job for her, just not as an MP. She has a lot of knowledge and experience. Her fraud history and poor recent decisions will be much less of an issue in the policy back room.

minimoke
10-08-2017, 07:40 AM
Respect for kennedy graham just evaporated. Appears he wants his snout back in the trough. Obviously doesnt realise miteria is not the whole issue - it is the immoral stance the caucus took. And he wants back in to the rotting fish

BlackPeter
10-08-2017, 07:42 AM
Betting the Greens will have a job for her, just not as an MP. She has a lot of knowledge and experience. Her fraud history and poor recent decisions will be much less of an issue in the policy back room.

You mean an expert on ripping off the welfare system is exactly what the Greenies need in these days?

Personally I think they should refocus on the environment - but it looks like Labour is taking this topic from them. Their water policy is still clearly in its infancy ... but good on them to rise this issue. In my view very worthwhile to discuss - and a fresh idea to better use and share this precious resource.

Let's forget Metiria and a bunch of always backwards looking Lefties who call themselves for reasons only they might understand "Green" and let's focus on the things which really matter - a thriving community living in a healthy environment and supported by a well run economy.

fungus pudding
10-08-2017, 08:28 AM
Dont quote, but I have a new respect for those two that left. I cant imagine what it would have been like in caucus with her.



Ever seen Ms Catherine Delahunty in full flight?

I feel quite sorry for their new list candidate, Chloe (Swarbrick?) Obviously talented and well suited for a political career, and probably genuine in her environmental views - but was she aware of the other aims and goals of the Kermits? If so she probably would have run a mile.

minimoke
17-08-2017, 05:05 PM
Tonights poll down to 4%

Joshuatree
17-08-2017, 05:09 PM
Im absolutely sure they will get 5% plus in the election.

fungus pudding
17-08-2017, 05:12 PM
Im absolutely sure they will get 5% plus in the election.

Anyone interested in Green environmental policies would be better to vote for Morgan's lot. Not quite as mad.

jonu
17-08-2017, 05:18 PM
Im absolutely sure they will get 5% plus in the election.

Labour will certainly be hoping so. It gets decidedly awkward for Labour to organise any sort of coalition if they don't. Why do you believe the polls regarding Labour and not those regarding the Greens?

Oh and by the way...if the Greens do breach 5% where do you think they will take that vote from? It won't be National

Joshuatree
17-08-2017, 06:11 PM
Im not oustioning the polls. That was one hell of a disaster ; destabilising , setback for the Greens but repairable to some extent especially if the environment is given top billing.
NZ first , a few national ,interesting times ahead.

By the way "An Inconvenient Sequel: Truth To Power" the followup to "The Inconvenient truth" is at the movies theatres now.

minimoke
17-08-2017, 06:24 PM
Im absolutely sure they will get 5% plus in the election.
That's disappointing, I had hoped the ones with any integrity would go over to Labour. Clearly you think some wont if they flow back to that cesspit of socialists

minimoke
17-08-2017, 06:26 PM
Anyone interested in Green environmental policies would be better to vote for Morgan's lot. Not quite as mad.
Spot on there - he even has a bit of socialism in his policies so TOP is really a solid option for them

minimoke
17-08-2017, 06:29 PM
Im not oustioning the polls. That was one hell of a disaster ; Not nearly as much as a disaster if they don't get to 5% on election night. MT is not going to win a seat which means potentially goodbye Greenies from Parliament. Shame!

When was the last time the Greens won a seat - 1999 with the thames green power base of Jeanette Fitzsimons?. Even then it was a narrow victory.

Joshuatree
17-08-2017, 06:34 PM
Throwing mud again, attempting to taint the whole party; you are almost ,as bad as whale oil and they are the lowest.Those two totally selfish holier than thou jerks shafted the Green party, their party,New Zealand's Party; didn't follow protocol; weren't savvy enough to calmly and patiently debate and wait ; oh no destroy the party and walk away head high, not seeing the sanctimonious bear trap at their feet. To think one even tried to get back in after his traitorish act well he has shown his true colours! Made their beds of nails so lie in them.
The Welfare system will be reviewed and more humanely organise. I thank Turei for that.

jonu
17-08-2017, 06:46 PM
Throwing mud again, attempting to taint the whole party; you are almost ,as bad as whale oil and they are the lowest.Those two totally selfish holier than thou jerks shafted the Green party, their party,New Zealand's Party; didn't follow protocol; weren't savvy enough to calmly and patiently debate and wait ; oh no destroy the party and walk away head high, not seeing the sanctimonious bear trap at their feet. To think one even tried to get back in after his traitorish act well he has shown his true colours! Made their beds of nails so lie in them.
The Welfare system will be reviewed and more humanely organise. I thank Turei for that.

Oh boy JT! "Selfish holier than thou jerks"....I think it is pretty clear where the electorate sits on this one. The two that left were effectively left in a whistleblower situation...speak up and maintain your integrity or go along with the tawdry mess. At 4% it would appear even a lot of their previous supporters see it that way too. Meanwhile Labour slurps up their votes which certainly makes them appear more credible but does not on the whole impact on National. It's just votes sloshing about on the left.

Baa_Baa
17-08-2017, 07:05 PM
The answer to the title of this thread, according to the latest poll, seems to be a resounding YES!

A simple strategy endorsed by the party, to out the co-leader as a beleaguered beneficiary working around the system, morphed into an unexpected (and I believe undisclosed) terminal outcome of electoral fraud. Oh yes, it certainly seems to have backfired in a spectacular fashion for the Greens, perhaps even removing their opportunity to even be in parliament.

This is a sorry outcome for the Labour / Greens coalition, it seems a dead duck now. As Labour rides the wave of the Jacinda effect and as someone said, the left votes slosh around the left parties, the only hope for Labour is a coalition with NZ First. Even that hasn't got the numbers at this stage to Govern by itself, though despite it seemingly an unholy alliance one can't discount a minor party wanting to be in government (Maori?) that will have Winston leverage his voter support and achieve his lifetime goal of Prime Minister.

In any event, this is the most interesting build up to an election that I can remember since Dad popped the cap off a Leopard beer, gave it to me and said "boy, this is the election of the NZ government, watch and learn". I was 14, it was all way over my head but a whole bottle of Leopard beer to myself! I can't remember whether I saw the result or passed out during the vote count. Probably the later. Lol.

minimoke
17-08-2017, 07:06 PM
; didn't follow protocol; .... I thank Turei for that.And that's a worse crime than benefit fraud or trying to rig an election result. Wow - just goes to show where the integrity is

fungus pudding
17-08-2017, 07:16 PM
Labour will certainly be hoping so. It gets decidedly awkward for Labour to organise any sort of coalition if they don't.

And given Winston's love of the Kermits, it's probably just as difficult if they do.

Joshuatree
17-08-2017, 07:25 PM
And that's a worse crime than benefit fraud or trying to rig an election result. Wow - just goes to show where the integrity is

Try living in the poverty trap yourself and you will realise you have to find away to get some more $ to survive the week and then the next. Be honest and tell them you've found a few $ or got a desperate loan from a shark at 50% int and you will be dumped and have to pay your benefit back as well;Inhumane and wrong . I didn't like the way she dug a bigger hole and conducted herself but you have to look through that at the bigger picture, suffering in the poverty trap; but then you think they are all no hoping bludgers so whats the point.

Joshuatree
17-08-2017, 07:28 PM
Kermit? guess that means you are just another muppet:t_up:

fungus pudding
17-08-2017, 07:31 PM
Kermit? guess that means you are just another muppet:t_up:

Not at all. I have no time for that party whatsoever.

minimoke
17-08-2017, 07:52 PM
Try living in the poverty trap yourself Seriusly - MT and her trap in poverty. You really want to go there?

(Where have I ever said no hoping bludgers. I haven't. So don't go there either!)

Joshuatree
17-08-2017, 07:59 PM
Well explain yourself then!

minimoke
17-08-2017, 08:22 PM
Well explain yourself then!
10 pages to this thread and you don't get it?

fungus pudding
17-08-2017, 08:24 PM
Well explain yourself then!

Who are you addressing now? Do you think all on this forum are mindreaders?

Joshuatree
17-08-2017, 08:47 PM
Only the Gurus ;)

bullfrog
17-08-2017, 08:47 PM
It's the lack of judgement and foresight that MT and the greens showed. We're electing a 3 yr dictatorship, I want to know that our dictator is smart enough to deal with whatever's round the corner, they can't even deal with the consequences of their own publicity, sad!

minimoke
17-08-2017, 08:58 PM
It's the lack of judgement and foresight that MT and the greens showed. We're electing a 3 yr dictatorship, I want to know that our dictator is smart enough to deal with whatever's round the corner, they can't even deal with the consequences of their own publicity, sad!
I know, heres a good idea. Lets confess to benefit fraud. What could go wrong.........

And these people expected to be part of Government. People with bright ideas like that no-one needs

Baa_Baa
17-08-2017, 09:03 PM
I know, heres a good idea. Lets confess to benefit fraud. What could go wrong.........

And these people expected to be part of Government. People with bright ideas like that no-one needs

Lol, and there's the truth! Expected, anticipated, hoped for, wished for ... all gone. Boom, in their face. A complete and utter stuff up has fecked this party big time .. and the coalition prospects with Labour. Recovery? Unlikely.

BlackPeter
18-08-2017, 08:27 AM
The sad thing is that NZ would need an environmentally concerned party. We never really had a truly "green" party. The NZ Greens are just the former Alliance under a new name, and by now the electorate realised that they worry more about ripping off the welfare state than about the state of our environment.

In other countries the Greens actually do care about the environment and work with both sides of the political spectrum. This made them for example in some German states to the strongest political force, even providing the head of state (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden-W%C3%BCrttemberg_state_election,_2016), while the NZ Greenies run their party and with that the environmental cause into the ground.

If we would have a true environmental party (vs a Left party called "the Greens") which could work with both political camps, than this party probably would have been for the last 20 years king maker in parliament - and our environment would be in a much better shape for that.

The NZ Green Party are traitors to our environment and always prioritised their cheap left wing political goals over the environment. They get now the deserved bill presented by the electorate, given that left wing greenies can vote as well the original (Labour) and centre / right Greenies still need to stick with National and ACT. What a sad state of affairs.

Joshuatree
18-08-2017, 09:41 AM
Here we go again. Repeat this
"My opinion is not necessarily a fact its just my opinion
".
" I don't need to influence people to feel good about myself"

"Im not a national spokes piece i am my own person"

BP i believe the Green party will recover from a horrible week or so; they've been around along time and its great to see the core of genuine passionate people left that will put their country and party ahead of the sanctimonious ego of a few who have been found not worthy of being here; promoting the increasing local and global environmental and social concerns. Stronger and more UNITED then ever and we need that more than ever imo.

westerly
18-08-2017, 11:11 AM
The sad thing is that NZ would need an environmentally concerned party. We never really had a truly "green" party. The NZ Greens are just the former Alliance under a new name, and by now the electorate realised that they worry more about ripping off the welfare state than about the state of our environment.

In other countries the Greens actually do care about the environment and work with both sides of the political spectrum. This made them for example in some German states to the strongest political force, even providing the head of state (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden-W%C3%BCrttemberg_state_election,_2016), while the NZ Greenies run their party and with that the environmental cause into the ground.

If we would have a true environmental party (vs a Left party called "the Greens") which could work with both political camps, than this party probably would have been for the last 20 years king maker in parliament - and our environment would be in a much better shape for that.

The NZ Green Party are traitors to our environment and always prioritised their cheap left wing political goals over the environment. They get now the deserved bill presented by the electorate, given that left wing greenies can vote as well the original (Labour) and centre / right Greenies still need to stick with National and ACT. What a sad state of affairs.

Ignoring your usual rhetoric, it would appear the NZ Green party is not far removed from the German Green party in it's policies. Energy, economics, and education were the campaign priorities according to your link. The main German Green party appears to have similar policies to the NZ Greens.

westerly

BlackPeter
18-08-2017, 11:19 AM
Ignoring your usual rhetoric, it would appear the NZ Green party is not far removed from the German Green party in it's policies. Energy, economics, and education were the campaign priorities according to your link. The main German Green party appears to have similar policies to the NZ Greens.

westerly

Ignoring your usual political one-eyedness it appears the the German Green party is able to work (and form governments) with both sides of the political spectrum. Baden Wuerttemberg has a government run by Green and the CDU (roughly equivalent to National in NZ).

The Green party in Germany has been involved in plenty of governments able to work together with politicians of all shades. The NZ Green party however was due to ideological blindness never able to join any government. Spot the difference?

Major von Tempsky
18-08-2017, 11:29 AM
Interesting observation in the media that thos now left in the Greens are hippies and drug addicts :-)

Joshuatree
18-08-2017, 12:09 PM
Reading whale oil againMvT. The lowest mudslinger of all?

I haven't noticed the Global /NZ environmental problems suddenly go away; no. They've had a week from hell so what would one expect. Greens will rebuild and get over the line.Labour/greens is a win /win and very probable imo and best for this country atpit imo.

"The Inconvenient sequel,Truth-Power" Doco has arrived. Any one with an open mind about global warming /environment etc is encouraged to see it whether they go to a greens fundraising showing or not.

blackcap
18-08-2017, 12:11 PM
Reading whale oil againMvT. The lowest mudslinger of all?

.

Actually in the NZ Herald if you want to know JT.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11906519

minimoke
18-08-2017, 12:19 PM
[QUOTE=Joshuatree;679152]
"The Inconvenient sequel,Truth-Power" Doco has arrived. Any one with an open mind about global warming /environment etc is encouraged to see it whether they go to a greens fundraising showing or not.[/QUOTE
Watching it and going with greens. You think i am that much of a masochist!

minimoke
18-08-2017, 12:21 PM
Actually in the NZ Herald if you want to know JT.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11906519
And heres the issue: th r y may not be inclined to acyually vote.

"This remaining 4 per cent I would expect are mainly hippies and drug addicts in the West Coast and Coromandel, and they are exactly the sort of people who are unlikely to show up."

jonu
18-08-2017, 01:01 PM
Actually in the NZ Herald if you want to know JT.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11906519

Mind you, the quote was from Mathew Hooten, who is only a little to the left of Attilla the Hun

Joshuatree
18-08-2017, 01:07 PM
Lol Thats hilarious, mathew hooted has reached a new low. Even Hoskings wouldn't be that stupid.

Major von Tempsky
18-08-2017, 04:30 PM
Last one out of Greens: Turn Out the lIghts.

fungus pudding
18-08-2017, 04:36 PM
Last one out of Greens: Turn Out the lIghts.

They don't have lights. Generating the electricity would fry the planet.

bullfrog
18-08-2017, 05:45 PM
I believe the greens have lost their way. Shouldn't they be the big picture thinkers, the party that looks 50, 100 yrs into the future to drive their strategy? The other parties look 3 maybe 6 yrs ahead, balance the books, keep waiting lists down, make sure our schools are relevant, protect the vulnerable. Who looks up from the weeds and brings the big picture, the environment, to the table? Come on greens, stop social engineering, get your act together, it's the planet stupid!

minimoke
18-08-2017, 06:19 PM
They don't have lights. Generating the electricity would fry the planet.Not even allowed candles due to the emissions.

fungus pudding
18-08-2017, 06:40 PM
Not even allowed candles due to the emissions.

They make-do with non-carbon emitting glow-worms they have saved from somewhere where their existence was threatened.

jonu
18-08-2017, 06:50 PM
They make-do with non-carbon emitting glow-worms they have saved from somewhere where their existence was threatened.

But did they take into account the methane from the aforementioned glow worms?...As in when they fart.

fungus pudding
18-08-2017, 06:55 PM
But did they take into account the methane from the aforementioned glow worms?...As in when they fart.

Oh yes. Very much a factor. They do finite calculations on a solar powered calculator.

jonu
18-08-2017, 07:33 PM
Any truth to the rumour that I'm starting that glow worms glow because they are radioactive? Something about uranium in the rock they lick for moistiure. Probably not because I just started it, but by next week it might be gaining some traction due to the number of shares and likes on social media giving it some real street-cred. Fake news generation at its finest. You heard it here first.

fungus pudding
18-08-2017, 10:46 PM
Any truth to the rumour that I'm starting that glow worms glow because they are radioactive? Something about uranium in the rock they lick for moistiure..


That's exactly right. In fact if you grab some uranium and spread it around your garden, the earth worms will glow quite brightly within a week. Even your carrots will look like illuminated parsnips before long and your brocolli will turn into cauliflower. Well worth doing.

Joshuatree
19-08-2017, 05:42 AM
[QUOTE=Joshuatree;679152]
"The Inconvenient sequel,Truth-Power" Doco has arrived. Any one with an open mind about global warming /environment etc is encouraged to see it whether they go to a greens fundraising showing or not.[/QUOTE
Watching it and going with greens. You think i am that much of a masochist!

If you had an open mind i said ,not someone brainwashed with prejudice who enjoys nature but doesn't care for it. You could work your growth edge/comfort zone and go along and see for yourself, nothing to fear everything to gain.

fungus pudding
19-08-2017, 07:54 AM
[QUOTE=Joshuatree;679247
If you had an open mind i said ,not someone brainwashed with prejudice who enjoys nature but doesn't care for it. You could work your growth edge/comfort zone and go along and see for yourself, nothing to fear everything to gain.[/QUOTE]



Anyone with an open mind will have as yet made no decision as to whether climate change is anthropological or simply part of a natural cycle. There are persuasive arguments on both sides.
So I gather with your self proclaimed open mind, you have no better idea than I have.

Joshuatree
19-08-2017, 09:02 AM
The body of evidence daily says its happening. I wish it was wrong i really do. And just say they got the science wrong somehow; whats the worst result of that?.A cleaner greener more sustainable world with a whole lot of new better tech, efficiencies etc etc. Win/Win.

minimoke
19-08-2017, 09:08 AM
The body of evidence daily says its happening. .
The body of evidence shows the climate has changed since for ever. The only difference this time round is that we have technology that enables a message of doom to be spread beyond the pastures of the village.

With change comes adaptation - and those that are able to adapt will come out on top. Which is why perhaps the Greens dont want adaptation - they want repression. (The Carbon Tax is a fine example of that). And we know who wins in that scenario

winner69
19-08-2017, 10:17 AM
The body of evidence daily says its happening. I wish it was wrong i really do. And just say they got the science wrong somehow; whats the worst result of that?.A cleaner greener more sustainable world with a whole lot of new better tech, efficiencies etc etc. Win/Win.

Hey JT - You should join me in this

http://www.ourclimatedeclaration.org.nz/the_declaration

Joshuatree
19-08-2017, 10:42 AM
The body of evidence shows the climate has changed since for ever. The only difference this time round is that we have technology that enables a message of doom to be spread beyond the pastures of the village.

With change comes adaptation - and those that are able to adapt will come out on top. Which is why perhaps the Greens dont want adaptation - they want repression. (The Carbon Tax is a fine example of that). And we know who wins in that scenario

How seriously warped can you be. Go to the movie and meet some of the Greens and see how you are tricking yourself.

minimoke
22-08-2017, 03:36 PM
Joss Debreceny, political Director and architect of MT's fall ftom grace had resigned. Other side kick deborah morris travers moved to a poverty project.

They just aren't getting it. Where is the environmental policy?

Instead they continue to focus on people who are not good at making decisions while expecting those who are better to pay for the consequences.

fungus pudding
22-08-2017, 03:47 PM
Joss Debreceny, political Director and architect of MT's fall ftom grace had resigned. Other side kick deborah morris travers moved to a poverty project.

They just aren't getting it. Where is the environmental policy?



That's Gareth Morgan's lot with the enviromental policies. The Greens still pay a bit of lip service to it, but with Kennedy Graham gone it won't be their no 1 priority.

minimoke
22-08-2017, 04:00 PM
Metiria wont be liking the green CGT policy given she jointly owns a castle in dunedin. Though i guess is more of a depreciating asset.

But policy no surprise given james shaw owns no property at all.