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View Full Version : How do our local candidates stack up.



minimoke
13-08-2017, 05:14 PM
Realised I now have a problem. I've got:

Gerry Brownlee (National) He wont get my vote as his failure to accept theincompetence is a greater crime that Meteria Turie. And he's heading off shoreso why vote for a local candidate who wont be around.

Martin Frauenstein (Conservative) I just have so much difficulty taking ColinCraig out of the equation. I'm sure hes a nice bloke but he's an IT geek (aSolutions Architect - whatever that is). And with respect to IT Geeks Ifind these type of people a bit removed from normal reality.

Paul Gilbert (ACT). He's 25th on the list so really needs a vote. Cant easilyfind out anything about him. So thats a No

David Lee (Greens) Say no more. but more objectively he doesn’t even warrant alist placing so presume he cant be up to much. And hes a Wellington CityCouncillor - so that only confirms my prejudice about the Greens integrity(Obviously where there is a trough they can smell it from miles away). Mate - gotto to actually live here!

Raf Manji (Independent) He was my shining hope. But he seems to believe insneaking through rules without consultation (Christchurch City Council LivingWage), thinks a council knows better than central government (who set minimumwage standards along with Working For Families) and is happy to give away ratepayer money (extra wages) for no increase in service to the rate payers. So itsa no on that basis.

Anthony Rimmell (Labour) Given Labour is more right leaning than National hemay be an option. It would be a protest vote - but one maybe with merit. Hesbeen on the Earthquake Appeals Trust, worked in the community. That alone isprobably worth a tick.

macduffy
16-08-2017, 08:01 AM
So don't vote for any of them - it's easy enough to spoil/invalidate the (electorate) paper. After all, it won't make any difference to the election outcome which will be determined by the party vote.

fungus pudding
16-08-2017, 08:39 AM
So don't vote for any of them - it's easy enough to spoil/invalidate the (electorate) paper. After all, it won't make any difference to the election outcome which will be determined by the party vote.

Although if a seat changes from the previous party holder, it may make a difference. In my electorate the seat has been Labour for decades and will never change - but casting an electorate vote for a candidate or party you may prefer surely sends some sort of message, and may even signal to likeminded voters that perhaps next time there may be a swing to another party.

macduffy
17-08-2017, 09:21 AM
Although if a seat changes from the previous party holder, it may make a difference. In my electorate the seat has been Labour for decades and will never change - but casting an electorate vote for a candidate or party you may prefer surely sends some sort of message, and may even signal to likeminded voters that perhaps next time there may be a swing to another party.

Sure, but minimoke's question was "what to do if you don't like/want any of the candidates?"

minimoke
17-08-2017, 09:56 AM
Sure, but minimoke's question was "what to do if you don't like/want any of the candidates?"
I dont recall ever voting Labour in my life. So thats my dillemma.

But this time around they may just get my electorate vote. I figure enough people will vote labour on the party ticket so my electorate vote won't change composition of Parliament but may see Gerry dusting off his woodworking tools

fungus pudding
17-08-2017, 11:30 AM
Sure, but minimoke's question was "what to do if you don't like/want any of the candidates?"

I make sure my vote is against the party or candidate I consider the most harmful. I'm a swinging voter and I've probably never really voted for a party; it's more about voting against a party or parties whose policies and candidates I don't like. Everyone must have a party they see as at least the best of a bunch, even if they hate the damn lot of them. It's only a matter of ranking them.

Major von Tempsky
17-08-2017, 01:08 PM
Funny that, that's my electorate. No problem, my wife and I will vote straight National, same as last time.

Given the electorate you're wasting your time worrying about it Minimoke. Do something constructive and meaningful instead.

minimoke
17-08-2017, 02:48 PM
Funny that, that's my electorate. No problem, my wife and I will vote straight National, same as last time.

Given the electorate you're wasting your time worrying about it Minimoke. Do something constructive and meaningful instead.
So thats your party vote accounted for. I'm more concerned about the electoral MP.

(I could'nt sleep knowing i played a part in getting brownlee re-elected)

fungus pudding
17-08-2017, 02:54 PM
So thats your party vote accounted for. I'm more concerned about the electoral MP.

(I could'nt sleep knowing i played a part in getting brownlee re-elected)

Well your most sensible course of action is to vote for the candidate most likely to unseat him, or find a new interest or hobby to replace sleeping.

Baa_Baa
17-08-2017, 07:44 PM
The thread might have been, "who to vote for in the Iilam electorate". Not being there I wouldn't care much except for the party vote. One I am looking at is Ohariu, even though it's not my electorate, the swing to Greg O'Conner (Labour) is profound and sticking it up Peter Dunne (Independent and a National coalition partner). Poor Brett Hudson, he's a good guy (National List) but playing the National party line in supporting Dunne diminishes his chances of going after the majority. It seems National will lose Ohariu via Dunne, which is a big deal for them in the greater Wellington electorate.

minimoke
17-08-2017, 07:49 PM
One I am looking at is Ohariu, even though it's not my electorate, the swing to Greg O'Conner (Labour) is profound and sticking it up Peter Dunne
Now that's an interesting electorate. Didn't realise O'Connor was contesting. Wont make a difference to Labours overall seating - but one seat could make all the difference for National

(I'm going to have to refresh myself on what happens to the overall major party seats when these minor parties don't get to 5% or win a seat. Some complicated formula as I recall

Baa_Baa
17-08-2017, 08:01 PM
Now that's an interesting electorate. Didn't realise O'Connor was contesting. Wont make a difference to Labours overall seating - but one seat could make all the difference for National

(I'm going to have to refresh myself on what happens to the overall major party seats when these minor parties don't get to 5% or win a seat. Some complicated formula as I recall

Yes, it's all about the coalitions that the major party's can or are able to form post the electoral vote, in order to give the Governor General confidence that a government can be formed.

This election is shaking up the status quo and imho one should look to the fringe electorates for guidance as they are the minor parties that have enabled the formation of governments since MMP came into being. When the minor parties win or lose their seats in parliament, the potential coalition partners change and in turn the seats in the House (of Representatives).

Watch Maori, Act, Independent .. and to some extent Greens if they have not shot their foot off. They are all crucial to the National forming government and keeping NZ First sidelined. Labour has other plans, which has so far backfired with the Greens, and brought NZ First back into play as a MMP government maker.

This is why imo it is the most interesting build up to an election that can remember.

Major von Tempsky
17-08-2017, 08:10 PM
Peter Dunne is a really annoying person and I'll be glad to see the last of him even if it's a loss to National. It's certain he was the ****er who leaked that stuff toAndre Vance. There has to be something wrong with anyone who gets their hair done like that and with his mannerisms!

Baa_Baa
17-08-2017, 08:11 PM
Now that's an interesting electorate. Didn't realise O'Connor was contesting. Wont make a difference to Labours overall seating - but one seat could make all the difference for National

(I'm going to have to refresh myself on what happens to the overall major party seats when these minor parties don't get to 5% or win a seat. Some complicated formula as I recall

It WOULD make a difference to Labours overall seating, a big difference, on current polling for the Ohariu electorate, Greg O'Conner (Labour) would unseat Peter Dunne (Independent, United Future) and bring a new seat to Labour. Gripping stuff, if you like elections.

minimoke
17-08-2017, 08:15 PM
Yes, it's all about the coalitions that the major party's can or are able to form post the electoral vote, in order to give the Governor General confidence that a government can be formed.
.

Obviously they can only form a government with a partner who wins a seat or gets over the 5% threshold. Which is why Ohariu is interesting as is Waiariki (surely Tamati Coffey cant win that for Labour?)

Baa_Baa
17-08-2017, 08:25 PM
Peter Dunne is a really annoying person and I'll be glad to see the last of him even if it's a loss to National. It's certain he was the ****er who leaked that stuff toAndre Vance. There has to be something wrong with anyone who gets their hair done like that and with his mannerisms!

You probably have a valid point there, about the hair and the mannerisms (he's a right royal twit when it comes to persona, although he does know governance very well and has been a 'safe bet' across many portfolio's for donkeys years.) Take into account the history on the electorate, strongly in favour of Peter Dunne for over 30 years, since 1984! I think it's over rover for him this time with O'Conner weighing in strongly, but hopefully the electorate still give their party vote to National, they are and have been blue to the core for decades.

fungus pudding
17-08-2017, 08:29 PM
Peter Dunne is a really annoying person and I'll be glad to see the last of him even if it's a loss to National. It's certain he was the ****er who leaked that stuff toAndre Vance. There has to be something wrong with anyone who gets their hair done like that and with his mannerisms!

Do you think the dismal spin-doctor of old, O'Connor, will be any better?

Baa_Baa
17-08-2017, 08:32 PM
Obviously they can only form a government with a partner who wins a seat or gets over the 5% threshold. Which is why Ohariu is interesting as is Waiariki (surely Tamati Coffey cant win that for Labour?)

Yes and those minor parties that get a seat or over 5% need to align with a major party to form a government or they are wasted in the back benches as a minor and insignificant party with no voice in opposition.

Politics and government is ruthless, cruel and unyielding. It comes down to only two things, 'gain power' and 'retain power'. That done, policies can be implemented, laws changed and the rule of law overseen.

minimoke
17-08-2017, 09:01 PM
Yes and those minor parties that get a seat or over 5% need to align with a major party to form a government .
I think we wil find the major parties wanting to align with the minnows. National and Labour are going to need every Minor they can get their hands on

minimoke
21-08-2017, 04:50 PM
Peter Dunne is a really annoying person and I'll be glad to see the last of him even if it's a loss to National. It's certain he was the ****er who leaked that stuff toAndre Vance. There has to be something wrong with anyone who gets their hair done like that and with his mannerisms!Spooky powers you have there MVT.. Got your wish!

minimoke
24-08-2017, 06:05 AM
Im not sure what teh Greens are up to in Ohariu. Last year James Shaw siad "Not standing in Ohariu increases the chances that we will be in a position to change the Government in September – it’s as simple as that . So now they have decided to stand a candidate i cant work out the strategy. Sure they may pick up a few extra Paryt votes by having a person on the ground. This will be at Labours cost. But statistically insignificant in terms of the overall Party vote.

Bigger risk as I see it is that the Green voters will think the Greens want to try and get an Electorate seat to guarantee they survive into parliament. This will definitely be at Labours cost, scavenging votes off OConnor and leaving the National guy a path in through the split left vote. Nationals party vote wont change so the only real impact is on the person on Nationals list who will miss out.

minimoke
24-08-2017, 06:27 AM
And to ensure there is that little extra spice in Ohariu Bale Nadakuitavuki is being thrown into the ring as their candidate.

iceman
24-08-2017, 11:40 PM
Im not sure what teh Greens are up to in Ohariu. Last year James Shaw siad "Not standing in Ohariu increases the chances that we will be in a position to change the Government in September – it’s as simple as that . So now they have decided to stand a candidate i cant work out the strategy. Sure they may pick up a few extra Paryt votes by having a person on the ground. This will be at Labours cost. But statistically insignificant in terms of the overall Party vote.

Bigger risk as I see it is that the Green voters will think the Greens want to try and get an Electorate seat to guarantee they survive into parliament. This will definitely be at Labours cost, scavenging votes off OConnor and leaving the National guy a path in through the split left vote. Nationals party vote wont change so the only real impact is on the person on Nationals list who will miss out.

I can totally understand The Greens changing tactic in Ohariu. This seat now has little relevance compared to the power it has given Dunne. Whether it goes Labour's or National's way is now neither here nor there in the scheme of things. The Greens fighting for survival need every party vote they can get and want a face in there fighting for them in this electorate

fungus pudding
25-08-2017, 02:26 AM
I can totally understand The Greens changing tactic in Ohariu. This seat now has little relevance compared to the power it has given Dunne. Whether it goes Labour's or National's way is now neither here nor there in the scheme of things. The Greens fighting for survival need every party vote they can get and want a face in there fighting for them in this electorate

Except he is saying he doesn't want the electorate, and is only campaigning for the party vote. Weird.

minimoke
25-08-2017, 05:43 AM
Except he is saying he doesn't want the electorate, and is only campaigning for the party vote. Weird.
That's how the Greens go though - Party Vote Greens. I still don't understand the move in ohariu. The Greens were always going to get a few votes out of the electorate. There has to be the hardy and moral-free few that would vote regardless.

There were 5,600 Green votes last time around. Say half of these are honest good new Zealanders who will send their vote to another party after the Meteria debacle. That leaves them 2,800 votes. So really they are trying to claw back the other 2,800. They are doing this at the expence of breaking an agreement with Labour - their only potential coalition partner. Why would you sh1t on your potential partner? Even if they do end up in government what policy do they think Labour will agree to support them on. Pretty much none I reckon. Said it earlier - a load of snouts!

Worth also noting National got 18,800 party votes and labour 8,700 last time around,. Peter Dunne and the National Candidate got 19,000 votes between them - Labour 12,800. This was a National Seat through and through. So has to be a bell wether electorate.

blackcap
25-08-2017, 06:50 AM
There were 5,600 Green votes last time around. Say half of these are honest good new Zealanders who will send their vote to another party after the Meteria debacle. That leaves them 2,800 votes. So really they are trying to claw back the other 2,800. They are doing this at the expence of breaking an agreement with Labour - their only potential coalition partner. Why would you sh1t on your potential partner?

I think they are being clever and so are Labour. I do not see it as ****ting on your partner. For the greens to get over 5% they need as many votes as they can get. By standing a candidate in Ohariu they increase their presence and will probably get more people voting green. Labour with or without Oconnor (lets say the National guy wins) will still have the same number of seats in parliament. Labour also know they need the greens over 5% to stand a chance of being in govt.

minimoke
25-08-2017, 07:15 AM
I think they are being clever and so are Labour. I do not see it as ****ting on your partner.
If it is such a clever idea they would have done it from day one. The labour candidate campaigning for electorate vote and encouraging party vote green. Green person campaigning for party vote but encouraging electorate vote labour. But they didnt.

blackcap
25-08-2017, 07:37 AM
If it is such a clever idea they would have done it from day one. The labour candidate campaigning for electorate vote and encouraging party vote green. Green person campaigning for party vote but encouraging electorate vote labour. But they didnt.

I think the first part of your statement "Labour candidate campaigning for electorate vote and encouraging party vote green" is a step too far... even Nats and Act do not do that in Epsom. The second part would work, but without the first part there is no reciprocal.
Now that Dunne is gone, it leaves the door open for the Greens. Maybe not a clever idea thought out by them (Green and clever is rather an oxymoron) however it is good strategy for the left.

minimoke
25-08-2017, 08:59 AM
Now that Dunne is gone, it leaves the door open for the Greens. Maybe not a clever idea thought out by them (Green and clever is rather an oxymoron) however it is good strategy for the left.
At best Greens can secure an extra 0.1% of total party vote. So shift them from 4.00 %
To 4.01% of party vote.

Seems they are really really desperate.

RGR367
25-08-2017, 09:34 PM
Most of my friends are in Ohariu electorate and they're yet to accept that Peter Dunne can be unseated had he not resigned. So it will be a hard swing to the left if Labour wins this truly blue electorate.

BlackPeter
01-09-2017, 05:34 PM
folks, I am envious. Looks like you all are spoiled with choice. Not so in Selwyn.

We do have Amy Adams (National) - and she is in my view a good politician and - still more important - she cares as our local MP, so probably I should not complain.

However - it still would be nice to have some credible choice. Two more candidates who bother at least to put a line into the local paper: Lindy Palmer - NZF and Nicky Snoyink for TOP (don't worry, I haven't heard of them before either - or wait, think I saw Nicky once on a meeting for local government elections attempting to speak).

That's it ... I had to check on wikipedia to find out that there are as well candidates for Labour and Green (never heard of them, no bill boards, no meetings, no door knocking, no comments to the local paper and never saw them in any candidate meeting ... and I am normally there ;), they just don't bother to show up. Sad.

Just wondering whether there is a reason Labour / Green get hardly any votes in our district ... they should get an award for the most lazy candidates ...

minimoke
01-09-2017, 08:52 PM
folks, I am envious. Looks like you all are spoiled with choice. Not so in Selwyn.
..I'm not so sure we are spoilt for choice. But I have an extra choice. I'm so excited I'm going to hunt the guy down and contribute to his Candidate fee. Martin Francis is his name and I hope every Ilam voter gives him their vote

fungus pudding
01-09-2017, 11:31 PM
folks, I am envious. Looks like you all are spoiled with choice. Not so in Selwyn.

We do have Amy Adams (National) - and she is in my view a good politician and - still more important - she cares as our local MP, so probably I should not complain.



You certrainly shouldn't. She's imprressive. In my electorate they would vote for a pig, even without lipstick, as long as the rest of it was red.

tim23
03-09-2017, 12:31 PM
Gee I nearly thought you were describing a National seat - in one seat down south they voted for spoilt little former tobacco lobbyist! QUOTE=fungus pudding;681723]You certrainly shouldn't. She's imprressive. In my electorate they would vote for a pig, even without lipstick, as long as the rest of it was red.[/QUOTE]

iceman
04-09-2017, 08:39 AM
Absolutely disgusted to see our local MP Nick Smith attacked at his local stand at the Nelson Markets on Saturday and rat poison rubbed in his face and his family threatened. Talk about dirty politics from these scumbags.

BlackPeter
04-09-2017, 09:09 AM
Absolutely disgusted to see our local MP Nick Smith attacked at his local stand at the Nelson Markets on Saturday and rat poison rubbed in his face and his family threatened. Talk about dirty politics from these scumbags.

Agreed - a new low for our political landscape, no matter whether the story is true or not (I hear there are different versions circulating), and whoever the alleged scumbags are. Certainly hope police can clear the story up prior to the elections.

iceman
04-09-2017, 11:10 AM
The story is true BP. He was attacked by 2 wan..rs protesting against 1080 drop at the Brook Sanctuary and poison rubbed into his face and clothes.

BlackPeter
04-09-2017, 11:28 AM
The story is true BP. He was attacked by 2 wan..rs protesting against 1080 drop at the Brook Sanctuary and poison rubbed into his face and clothes.

I"ve read the story in stuff:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96450064/pair-rub-poison-in-face-of-nelson-mp-nick-smith-threaten-family ,

heard however this morning on National radio the head of the protest group denying the accusations: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/338619/poison-drop-protesters-deny-attack-on-nick-smith

... and hey - at this stage I have no more reason to believe Smith than the group's chairman Christopher St Johanser.

But obviously - they can't be both right (or maybe they can .. could have been some nutters not belonging to the group).

Do you have other evidence than the statements of the two gentlemen above?

iceman
04-09-2017, 11:34 AM
No idea what group they belonged to but a close friend witnessed the attack and told me about it yesterday.

BlackPeter
04-09-2017, 11:44 AM
No idea what group they belonged to but a close friend witnessed the attack and told me about it yesterday.

Do we know for sure it was rat poison? Lots of harmless substances are white powder as well ...

This still would be unacceptable behaviour ... just trying to fathom how unacceptable it really was.